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"Stop cryin'......America voted, and talent doesn't always win..."
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TickTockMan 2 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"

05-14-04, 01:09 AM (EST)
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"Stop cryin'......America voted, and talent doesn't always win..."
LAST EDITED ON 05-14-04 AT 01:13 AM (EST)

....c'mon. It isn't like Simon and Paula and that other guy got to pick - it was a popular vote nationwide of over 30 million people. That's it. Not a fix. Just because someone is MORE TALENTED than someone else doesn't mean they are necessarily the favorite among voters. Look at Britney Spears - voice isn't that great, not entirely vocally talented, but she's breaking billboard records. Is Norah Jones more talented than Britney? Yeah. Then why isn't she selling more records if she's more talented? Talent doesn't always sell records, and in the end it comes down to personal preference. Jasmine Trias is more marketable to the teeny-bop crowd, and they really make up the majority of votes. She's 17 years old, spunky, pretty, has that "image" and looks like she'll make good teeny-bop music. LaToya is more vocally talented, but kinda a hard sell to the TWEENERS that make up the majority of votes/record sells. Sure, these boards are going to be filled up with LaToya supporters, but the difference is we're probably not 13 years old and making up all the votes. So, don't go up in a fit because the most "talented" didn't win. This competition isn't all about talent, and neither is record sales in general. Hell, George Huff got all my votes even though I knew LaToya and Fantasia are better. Why? Because he's my favorite. That's my preference.
And stop crying racism. Three of the last five finalists were African American. The winner last year was African American. I hate racism too, but I don't think it applies here....

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: Stop cryin'......America voted,... ringjosbell 05-14-04 1
 RE: Stop cryin'......America voted,... PA44sec 05-14-04 2
   Watch it... Bebo 05-14-04 4
       RE: Watch it... TickTockMan 05-14-04 8
           RE: Watch it... Fishercat 05-15-04 9
               RE: Watch it... Femme 05-18-04 20
                   RE: Watch it... Fishercat 05-18-04 21
 May I also add, mixmaster59 05-14-04 3
 RE: Stop cryin'......America voted,... zzz 05-14-04 5
   RE: Stop cryin'......America voted,... seahorse 05-14-04 6
       RE: Stop cryin'......America voted,... zzz 05-14-04 7
 RE: Stop cryin'...... Why crying ou... sodiumswirl 05-15-04 10
   RE: Stop cryin'...... Why crying ou... ALIAS 05-16-04 14
 John Mayer Breezy 05-15-04 11
   RE: John Mayer Karennz 05-15-04 12
       RE: John Mayer shedevil 05-15-04 13
   RE: John Mayer managerr 05-19-04 23
 RE: Stop cryin'......America voted,... JOSHIDOL 05-17-04 15
   RE: Stop cryin'......America voted,... stormysatan 05-17-04 16
       RE: Stop cryin'......America voted,... shedevil 05-17-04 17
           I have good reliable ears stormysatan 05-17-04 18
               RE: I have good reliable ears shedevil 05-17-04 19
 RE: Stop cryin'......America voted,... kayvee200 05-18-04 22
   RE: Stop cryin'......America voted,... KimD 05-19-04 24

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ringjosbell 2 desperate attention whore postings
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05-14-04, 01:33 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: Stop cryin'......America voted, and talent doesn't always win..."
Thank You TickTock, I couldn't agree more. It's refreshing to see someone put it into perspective like you did. I think we all have our preferences and we all have our idea of what talent is and isn't and they are as varied as we are.

I personally thought JPL had no business in the top 12 but yet America loved him and so be it. By the same token I thought Amy was awesome and she got the boot early on. It's just like the question Why do some people like chocolate and some like vanilla? And then there are some wackos that don't even like ice cream...go figure. In the end it boils down to what the majority thinks. I could see people getting upset if the judges were the ones voting but hello people, we are doing it.

And thank you for pointing out the racism issue because you are so right. The only thing worse than actual racism is blaming racism for everything. Reminds me of Omorosa and the whole "pot calling the kettle black" incident. UGH!

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PA44sec 10 desperate attention whore postings
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05-14-04, 06:05 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: Stop cryin'......America voted, and talent doesn't always win..."
Tick Tock Man... you ARE the man!! Finally someone with some sense who isn't all angry and insulted because "their" contestant got the boot. I had three favorites from the beginning, two of which got the boot so far (JPL and George). If my third fave gets the boot, oh well. I'm a big girl.. I can take it... And I so definitely agree with the marketable aspect that you bring up... The younger crowd buys a ton of music so why shouldn't their preference win. The older ones who want to cry "it's racism" or "it's rigged" need to just get a life. In my opinion... all the contestants that were on this show deserve a medal just for getting that far at all. And I sincerely hope if these finalists read some of these nasty postings they don't take it to heart because this is just a handful of nobody's just sounding off.
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Bebo 20897 desperate attention whore postings
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05-14-04, 08:10 AM (EST)
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4. "Watch it..."
Insulting other posters, like you do in this post, is a violation of community guidelines. Please refrain from putting down other posters when trying to make your points in the future.
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TickTockMan 2 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"

05-14-04, 09:35 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Watch it..."
>Insulting other posters, like you do
>in this post, is a
>violation of community guidelines.
>Please refrain from putting down
>other posters when trying to
>make your points in the
>future.

....who got insulted? Where are there any insulting remarks in this thread? Just because someone doesn't agree with another opinion doesn't deem it "insulting"...

....secondly, all of you claiming the voting is unfair because not everyone can get through, be aware that it's called a REPRESENTATIVE SAMPLE. Like Presidential polls, they don't go around and ask every single American who they'd vote for - they survey a smaller group that basically represents the greater whole. And when you have OVER THIRTY MILLION VOTES, you can't say that the very small amount of people that didn't get through would have made the difference. More than enough people got their vote in to be heard to where there would be no error.

...again, like I said, the "older" generation needs to stop crying that their faves didn't make it. AGAIN, talent doesn't equal popularity. Jasmine is popular among the tweeners and is an easy sell for that type of music, while LaToya appeals to older voters, who DO NOT make up the majority of votes. Get over it. When over 30 MILLION votes are cast, there IS NO MISTAKE!

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Fishercat 4168 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest"

05-15-04, 01:02 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Watch it..."
"Finally someone with some sense who isn't all angry and insulted because "their" contestant got the boot"

Maybe Bebo was referring to that quote from the poster she was responding to (I think), which clearly infers the idea that many people here do not have "sense".

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Femme 3621 desperate attention whore postings
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05-18-04, 05:46 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: Watch it..."
Er, heh, I think it was the fact that we're all a bunch of 'nobodys,' I believe.

Femmebody!

"Shock me, shock me, shock me with your deviant behavior."

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Fishercat 4168 desperate attention whore postings
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05-18-04, 08:22 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: Watch it..."
Eh, that'd make more sense, maybe reading more critically would help me. Heh.
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mixmaster59 21 desperate attention whore postings
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05-14-04, 08:02 AM (EST)
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3. "May I also add,"
... that if you don't vote, your fav. or the best contestant WILL NOT WIN!!

I have been lurking here for weeks and not posting, and I have read many different posts stating that the poster does not vote. Yet those very posters are now calling fowl because Laytoya is now out of the compitition.

It is very simple, if you didn't vote for Laytoya, but you wanted her to win, or thought she should win, than you have no one to blame for her demise than yourself. Jasmine had nothing to do with her leaving, just like John Stevens had nothing to do with Jennifer leaving.

Votes matter. So, don't complain if your favorite is now gone if you didn't vote. Just deal with it.

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zzz 703 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"

05-14-04, 09:40 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: Stop cryin'......America voted, and talent doesn't always win..."
I would not have any problems with the voting results if I thought the voting method made any sense. I think that the show is a victim of its own success. When the phone lines are as jammed as they are, I doubt that an accurate vote is possible. They should change it to one phone number and you press a button once you dial in to choose your favorite. That would provide a more reliable voting method and I would be more willing to accept whatever results happened.
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seahorse 14337 desperate attention whore postings
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05-14-04, 10:02 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: Stop cryin'......America voted, and talent doesn't always win..."
You have a good idea if it is feasible. Right now since the are only a certain # of phone lines for each contestant, the most popular just gets a lot more busy signals and everybody ends up getting close to the same amount of votes. The only way the present system could be perfectly fair is if the # of incoming lines per contestant were greatly increased or the time frame for voting were increased substantially, so that there would be few or none busy signals.

If everyone rang the same # and then made a choice from there, all contestants would end up getting the same approximate percentage of busy signals and the vote would be more in agreement with the voters wishes.

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zzz 703 desperate attention whore postings
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05-14-04, 02:14 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Stop cryin'......America voted, and talent doesn't always win..."
Exactly--that is my point. The current voting system is fundamentally flawed.
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sodiumswirl 79 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"

05-15-04, 01:30 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Stop cryin'...... Why crying out "racism" is racism in itself"
In case anyone hasn't noticed... Jasmine Trias isn't white either. Talent aside, does voting for a Filipino-Hawaiian girl instead of an African-American woman make one racist? Or does the simple act of pointing out their ethnicity (like what I'm doing exactly right here), instead of focusing on their singing abilities or marketability or stage presence, constitute a more implicit form of discrimination? Where do we draw the line when it comes to critiquing what is essentially a popularity contest (or to be more precise: a talent show that relies on votes from the public to determine its winner) on its "racist" or "rigged" results?

I think it's sad that La Toya had to leave but frankly she never had a shot at winning. Not (just) because she's older than the other girls, or because of her "handicapped" African-American racial background, but because it's so much easier to root for a personality instead of a voice. And La Toya, great singer and brilliant performer though she is, is hardly a TV personality in that no one seems to know anything about her beyond what she chooses to display (25 yr old step-mom who sings great), and no one seems interested in finding out anything more. Sure, she'll inspire people to put up "La Toya - the next American Idol" sig pics all over this community board; but she won't get websites built up entirely in her honor (the way 22 yr old Jennifer Hudson did); or have, made specially for her, gigantic "Fantasia = Fantastic"-type banners that take ages for fans among the live studio audience to create and set up. Again, age may play a factor here but if it does, that's an entirely different category of discrimination.

I think constantly reminding perople around you with the never-ending suggestion (e.g. screams of "RACISM on AI3") that being African-American is some sort of handicap to receiving public votes, is almost as discriminatory as not voting for La Toya because of her ethnicity (which I highly doubt anyone is doing anyway). It simply reinforces whatever negative connotations the public may be having about the African-American race (I personally doubt there are many at the moment, but that's just me), without being constructive in trying to eradicate this discrimination (whether or not it exists).

A more contructive way, I feel, is to look at all the factors surrounding La Toya's shock departure - her age, her lack of "rootablity" as a TV personality, her quiet confidence which some may contrue as arrogance, her constant vocal and stage perfection week after week leading to a predictability that makes it difficult (for some) to want to see her stick around till the end (compared to Fantasia's reliable unexpected-ness; never knowing whether Jasmine is going to flub all her notes or not this week; and wondering whether Diana is going to put on another hilariously horrible outfit like she has for most of the season), and yes, also, but not only, her race; then determine whether you think she deserves to stay around till Final Three or Final Two or to be the next American Idol; and finally making an informed, carefully considered criticism about her departure on Disco Week. Simply (and angrily) focusing on her race is not only the easiest and laziest way to justify a person's feelings about the unfairness of her departure; it is also an implicit, insidious and arguably far more dangerous form of racism in itself.

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ALIAS 16 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-04, 12:29 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Stop cryin'...... Why crying out "racism" is racism in itself"
I'm a talent Junkie !!! I'm not a fan of American Idol. I kind of grew up just discovering artists and Idols on my own instead of it being forced down my ears. I do watch it because i do enjoy music and i like to beleive i have a good ear and eyes for things...Altho Latoya was good for my ears and eyes i know i don't control what should happen to her and i don't think anyone should except people in the industry who want her voice representing their record label. Only then releasing her to the world and seeing how record sales do... Yeah Britney Spears is going to out sell Norah Jones... It's been like that since i was a Teen. Yeah Jasmine fits the whole demographic of teen girls and Latoyya fits the whole Demographic of the 20'something crowd. You gotta be stupid not to figure that out.

With a whole lot of former contestants releasing CD's left and right...What does the title of American Idol really mean anymore? Why is Clay out selling Ruben? Well answer to that would be promotion...I see Clay's CD promoted on TV and Radio more then Ruben any day of the week...He's just easy to Market nationally then Ruben is. Just how it goes...It's all about the numbers and who sells to the buying public. Two different genres also...Clay went the whole "sell out" pop scene and Ruben is "keeping it real" with R&B.. Again just how it goes.

Just reading these boards i'm just amazed by how people are reacting to this show..it's like my own personal entertainment. It's a CIRCUS Talent show that just insults the art of music rather then cherish it as art.... If this show was seriously looking for talent there would be a panel of 7 Judges ( Simon, Paula, Randy and..Ummm Ouincey Jones, Tommy LiPuma and Bayface) and the 7th being the person who was picked off the week before. However the show is American IDOL...And you are picking who you wanna idolize for the year until the next pretty face comes along... Chew them up and spit them out. It's too bad these kids will have to suffer that... Take it easy in Rehab Clay, Kelly, Jasmine, Justin, Kelly, John..Etc !!!

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Breezy 18379 desperate attention whore postings
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05-15-04, 04:43 PM (EST)
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11. "John Mayer"
He was on Crossroads with Brad Paisley, I was watching this earlier today. He said with a chuckle "I wouldn't have made it on American Idol, I wouldn't have gotten past the first auditions."

Made me really think about the threads and posts I've been reading here lately. He's right, he doesn't have a great voice... but he's a great performer. American Idol isn't and shouldn't be the Greatest Singer in America show, it's American Idol. America is voting for who they want to see perform.


Save a horse, ride a cowboy.

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Karennz 112 desperate attention whore postings
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05-15-04, 09:21 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: John Mayer"
Well Breezy, I guess it's all in how we define our terms.

For me, it IS all about the music -- the singing to be specific. The personality, wardrobe, age, etc. are all secondary to the music. That's why I voted multiple times each week for LaToya. In my opinion she was the best singer. That's why I'm sickened that she won't win. And that is why I may not waste my time on this show, IF there is a fourth season. Because I just don't care any more.

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shedevil 1 desperate attention whore postings
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05-15-04, 09:42 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: John Mayer"
I'm with you, I care mainly about the talent, voice is first for me, but personality is important to me too. That's why Latoya didn't "do it for me", she should be there and not Jasmine but a done bun can't be undone.


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managerr 1959 desperate attention whore postings
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05-19-04, 01:33 AM (EST)
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23. "RE: John Mayer"
Wow, I'm totally glad he admitted that. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that he's a totally boring and horrid singer.

Nygel Lithgoe said numerous times this week it isn't just about voice, it's overall package as well.

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JOSHIDOL 275 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-04, 10:30 AM (EST)
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15. "RE: Stop cryin'......America voted, and talent doesn't always win..."
I think if people are paying money to see a performer, I would certainly pay for talent but you do want the personality to go along with it.
I do agree Latoya did not have that personality but Jasmine what was so great about her personality????
It is so obvious without the million people voting in Hawaii and being able to get through, she would have been gone a long time ago.
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stormysatan 90 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-04, 12:54 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: Stop cryin'......America voted, and talent doesn't always win..."
Obviously, the votes from hawaii are not enought to keep her on the show. She seems to have a wide support nationwide. That's why she's still in the running.
I think Jasmine is a very good singer but she gets nervous very easily and that affects her performance. See the difference in her rendition of the song INSEPARABLE week 1 of the finals and during the presentation of the top 5 ...... and her rendition of Run To You between Tue(the contest proper) and Wed (THE RESULTS NIGHT).
I think she is capable of doing more than what people think .
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shedevil 1 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"

05-17-04, 08:31 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: Stop cryin'......America voted, and talent doesn't always win..."
I have heard Jasmine sing "Inseparable" on t.v. and on mp3, and it's not that great, it's just as flat and out of tune as everything she's done.

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stormysatan 90 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"

05-17-04, 09:29 PM (EST)
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18. "I have good reliable ears"
Don't know what you are listening to. But my 'sharp ears' said she sounded very well with Inseparable during the contest proper. In fact, many people say that along with Fantasia's Summertime, Jas' rendition of that song has been the most memorable moment of AI3.
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shedevil 1 desperate attention whore postings
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05-17-04, 09:41 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: I have good reliable ears"
I was listening to the same thing you were, and my sharp ears disagree with you, we all have a right to our own opinions. The people who said that about Jasmine's version of that song, have the right to feel the way they do but I don't have to agree with them. It doesn't make them right or me wrong (or vice versa). Many people have the same opinion about Jasmine's voice as I do. It's all just opinions and everybody has one.


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kayvee200 1 desperate attention whore postings
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05-18-04, 09:07 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: Stop cryin'......America voted, and talent doesn't always win..."
THANK YOU! I've been saying this for weeks. The judges and some of the people in the media have been making me SO mad. This is not about talent. It's about commercial appeal and La Toya doesn't have it. The judges are so disconnected with the audience, it really make me mad. Talent has NEVER been the determining factor for celebrity status. It take much more than that to suade the American public. Come on, the people who watch this show are not looking to find the most talented. They want some who connects with them, someone closer to their ages.
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KimD 53 desperate attention whore postings
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05-19-04, 11:52 AM (EST)
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24. "RE: Stop cryin'......America voted, and talent doesn't always win..."
Yep - when I watch I'm looking for the one(s) that I connect with the most, the one(s) that give me the chills.

This season, it's been Diana all the way. I know LaToya and Fantasia (and Jennifer) are all great singers, but they just don't do a thing for me.

By the way - it's not necessarily an age thing, at least for those of us older than all the contestants. I'm 42, and Diana's CD is the only one I'd even think about buying. JMHO.

Kim

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