...name me one person who ever won BB by winning competitions? Now on the other hand name me one person who won BB despite never winning a competition? Exactly. Winning comps will only get you so far but it will NEVER get you the $500,000. Never has, never will.

You're absolutey right. Not about the "Never has, never will" part, but yeah, no one has ever won BB by winning just comps. But that's not the arguement here. The arguement is whether or not Janelle deserves to be mentioned in the Top 5 of the greatest players ever. And so far you haven't proven me wrong.

...first of all, that's just speculation on your part. Second of all, as someone argued below, Will's strategy is to never win comps and therefore never get the target put on him that you get when you win comps. Unlike oh, everyone else who has ever played thsi game, Will doesn't need to be in power to have power so why would he even want to win comps? Which is the oppposite of Janelle, who exerts ZERO power unless she holds the power, and even then, she is still easily persuaded by others (Will)to do their bidding.

Speculation? Okay, I'll give you that. And I'll even admit that he does throw most of the comps that he plays in, but until he actually wins something of meaning, I'll just keep speculating that he does indeed suck at them.

...you have got to be kidding me???? To compare Janelle to Danielle is a complete joke. Danielle is master only second to Will at playing people and building trust with people AND keeping her mouth shut, someting Janelle can never do. On top of that, Danielle should've actually won he season but for a horrible mistake by the producers....Janelle didn't even make it to the final 2, despite her so-called dominance in competitions.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Danielle is second only to Will in manipulation, that I agree with. Janelle is second to none in her ability to win comps especially with her ass on the line, which to say....ALWAYS. So their each very good at one aspect of gameplay and not quite as good in the other, therefore a tie.

...teh only thing simple about your excuse is that you have no explanation and instead are trying this half @ssed way of non-arguing. Being on the allstar eligibility list means NOTHING. Who cares who is on that list? Unless that list was made by an objective unbiased independent firm intent on coming up with the 20 best BB players in history whether or nto you are on the list has ZERO bearing on this discussion...adn you are smart enough to come up with a better excuse than that half @ss BS. Which leads me to believe that you have NO argument for Janelle being better than Drew and Maggie.

Whaa? There's absolutely no way to have an objective, unbiased, independent way of coming up with a fair rating list. If there was, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. Therefore, we have to work with what we have. But for the sake of arguement, I'll tell you why Drew and Maggie aren't better than Janelle...

Drew won BB, he won competitions, he also made successful alliances and was able to cross over and work his way into the other alliances in the house. And yet, you think Janelle is a better player? Well, actually you probably don't since you had no argument for that other than that BS crap you tried to use.

You forgot to add that Drew has the personality of a sack of potatoes. Sure, he joined the Four HorsesAsses right from the beginning and when they were quickly disbanded he runs to Diane and convinces her that he likes her, thus getting her to do his bidding. Then, for good measure he mind fvcks Cowtard and convinces him their actually BFF, and convinces him to be Drew's henchman. Wow! That takes some serious skillz there! Only not. Drew's a good manipulator, but only marginally good considering the Mensas he was up against. But his overall gameplay consisted of making out with Diane (which shoulda qualified for immediate eviction) and slapping Cowtard on the ass. Oh, and he won an HoH, big whoop. I'll give him props because he won, but then so did Jun.

As for Maggie, she actually beat Janelle head to head. Didn't you use head to head as a reason that Janelle is better than Allison? Well, I guess that means you agree with me on Maggie being better than Janelle then since she won the head to head battle. And unlike Janelle, Maggie was able to pull the move of teh season when she infiltrated tghe other alliance and got Howie to nominate the wrong people. Janelle didn't even bother talking to the other alliance the entire game.

Yeah, she beat her head-to-head, you're right about that. But Maggie had the advantage of knowing that even if she didn't win the last HoH (which she didn't) and Ivette won (which she did) that she was still going to the final two. Two-to-One is pretty good odds at that point. But hey, I'm not one to make excuses so I'll give you that one. Maggie just had the numbers on her side at the end which is why she won, and convincing Howie to slit his own (and his alliance's) throat is not as difficult as you make it out to be. She won one HoH and one Veto. If I admit that Maggie is a great player, then I would have to admit that David Kurresh was a great leader. Not happening clown.

...that is such a load of crap! Unlike Janelle, Allison didnt' walk into the game with a 4 person alliance under her belt. She had to scramble and take risks right off the bat since she didn't have anyone to hide behind like Janelle.

Load of crap?! Pot? Meet kettle. What is a "load of crap" is you trying to justify Alison's eviction by saying she was at a disadvantage becuase she didn't walk in with a 4 person alliance under her belt. Neither did the other nine people shakes. And yet, she was the one evicted first. Why? Becuase she let Danielle work her that's why. Because she opened her big mouth when she should've kept it shut, that's why. She didn't have to "scramble and take risks right off the bat" as you say. Janelle even said Alison wasn't on her radar until she found out Alison was coming after her.

And I would also argue that coming in with a 4 person alliance is actually a disadvantage and not an advantage. And you can't tell me Janelle was "hiding" from anyone. How could she? And she won HoH the first week, so to say Janelle was hiding behind people is an outlandish statement even coming from you. Alison made a rookie mistake that a person with half a brain would have known better not do. Hell, even Chicken George knew better than to say something and he was right there when Danielle first proposed the idea.

But, to judge how they did in their respective seasons it isn't even close...Allison played a much better game than Janelle...she won plenty of competitions including the last one which Janelle couldn't, she worked her way into several alliances and even convinced a competitor to use the VEto on her. YOu're right, it isn't close between those two, Allison wins hands down.

You're judging two different playing styles from two very different seasons. Alison is a master manipulator, that's what she's good at. Janelle is a master competitor, that's what she's good at. I'm not gonna argue who's style is better, in the end, they both lost anyway. Yeah, Alison came in second, while Janelle came in third in their respective seasons - Advantage Alison. Alison gets ousted in week one while Janelle is still playing despite YOUR prediction she'd be gone last week (this week at the latest) - Game.Set.Match.Janelle.

...HUH??? That excuse is even dumber than the one you used on Drew. Do you realize how stupid that sounds? Not in the top 5 b/c she had a near nervous breakdown once she made it to the final 2???? Do I even really need to argue taht? I don't think so. Come back with a substantive arguement why Janelle is better than Nicole and I"ll argue it, but I don't need to waste my time on your non-argments.

I thought the answer was obvious. Nichole's not as mentally tough as Janelle. Sure Janelle is as gullible and as susceptible to being manipulated as a three year old, but nobody handles pressure like the Janey Doll. She tough as nails. Tougher than Nichole even. Which probably explains the reason why Nichole never came back (except for the food comp and she could barely handle that!). I'm guessing Will made her cry so they had to go to flames for pretty long while. Nichole's a wuss, that's why she's not better than Janelle. Do I need to break it down any further?

...that's the point genius! Will is so great that he removed the biggest target in reality tv history from his back w/i two weeks of being in the house. don't give me this crap about Janelle having the biggest target on her back, that's a joke. Was she a previous winner? No. Nuff said. Did anyone respect her gameplay? No. Do they respect her ability to win comps? Yes, and thats about it. And I would argue that Janelle didn't even have tghe biggest target on her back from her own alliance. Kaysar did imo.

Okay shakes. We're just gonna have to disagree about who's target was bigger. Sure, Will was a previous winner and considered very dangerous but that didn't trump being the most dangerous player in the biggest alliance in the house according to the other hamsters. They were talking about getting rid of Season 6 (Janelle first) before the door to the house had shut all the way, so the jokes on you if you believe otherwise.

And Danielle respected her gameplay, she said as much. Marcellas (if that means something, which it doesn't but I'm anwering your question), and Erika was in the Janey fan club too! And no, Kaysar's target wasn't bigger than Janelle's, if he was he woulda been on the block from the beginning. The only reason why Kaysar went home is because Janelle won veto.

And you are rigth about one thing and one thing only. Janelles target is bigger NOW. That's because Will is such a genius that he manages to make the target on his back smaller rather than bigger as the game goes on. Unlike Janelle, who only gets more and more hated as tghe game goes on. Do you think its a coincidence that everyone in the house hates her in both BB6 AND bb7? Everyone puts it on jealousy, but eventually you have to look at Janelle and her conduct as opposed to just blaming EVERYONE except Janelle. First of all, she makes no effort to socialize with 70% of the other people in the house in BOTH SEASONS. That's smart. And then she makes brilliant moves like at the non ceremony when she called out Erika for NO REASON! What was the point of that? Why get Erika mad at you? What end game does that serve except to make your target bigger? Would Will ever do something so stupid? Hell no.

The more Janelle is hated the more she steps her game up. She has a scortched earth type of style that she's comfortable with. It will never give her the ultimate prize but it will win her fans and I'm one of them. Sure, she doesn't understand that in order to get along, you have to go along. She's never had to play it that way before and she's not able to adapt. So, she plays the only way she know how....balls to the freaking wall! It doesn't mean she isn't a great player, she just not a great schemer which is only one aspect of the game.

Winning competitions
Building Alliances
building cross-alliance w/o getting caught
socializing/becoming popular w/ fellow contestants

Of these 4, Janelle does one very well and the other 3 she is HORRIBLE at! How can you consider her a top player when she absolutely svcks at every aspect of the game except one! And tghe one aspect she is good at is the one that NEVER gets you the big prize in the end.

Count again shakes. Janelle has two of the four. Winning comps and building alliances. Just because she's not going to win the big prize at the end doesn't mean she isn't a great player, no matter what you may think.

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