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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 09-30-10, 07:13 PM (EST) "S21 Editing Topic for the Thoroughly Spoiled" HERE BE SPOILERS - DON'T GO IF YOU DON'T WANNA KNOW I would like a topic for discussing editing without worrying about affecting posters who want to remain unspoiled. I'm as interested in how the editing works as anyone. A lot about this season is spoiled, but observations made this season will be useful in the future. I am not one of those who thinks I can predict the course of the game by the editing, so it is not important to me be unspoiled. (Veruca really can see how the characters will evolve, and amazes me.) I just want to analyze how they are telling the story, the same as I would in a class where I've already read the book and we're discussing how it was written. OTOH, I believe it is possible to separate out stuff that would have struck you regardless of what you already knew, and I do think it's useful to record first impressions. When I watch the show the first time around, I am often amazed by how different it looks than what I imagined, even with spoilage. I don't have time today to do a big analysis of Episodes 1, 2, or 3. Please do contribute whatever you wish. I do have questions to throw out. QUITTERS We know that Na Onka and Kelly S are going to quit near the end of the game. Do you think that their early edits are different because of what they did later? Kelly Purple has been somewhat invisible. Is that due to her personality, or is she being punished for her sin? FINAL THREE First, I have no information whatsoever on who gets the votes. The only hint by missyae is that it may not go as we expect in terms of who gets whose votes. a) What about Sash? We are three episodes in and we don't see much of him. Has there ever been a F3 player this UTR in the first three eps? b) Chase is not being edited as very game savvy. But could his arc be more complex? c) What do you think of Jud's edit? No question that we're supposed to find him entertaining, but does he seem too blonde for the win? As I said in the topic, I like to compare Jud to the Scarlet Pimpernel -- in a joking way, as I don't believe Jud is in that class of smarts. If you're asking, who??? -- the SP hid his true identity by pretending to have only the most superficial concerns on his mind. How to wear his clothes, making up silly rhymes for entertainment, basically the whole court thought he was a buffoon and an idiot, so he was overlooked by those seeking the identity of the mastermind. Jud is no mastermind, but he is deliberately playing the buffoon. Look forward to seeing what you have to say. If you want to double-post what you write for the original editing topic, that is fine too. The difference here is that if you want to make an observation based on information you have, you are free to speak.   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: S21 Editing Topic for the Thoro... Round Robin 10-01-10 1    RE: S21 Editing Topic for the Thoro... Outfrontgirl 10-01-10 5  RE: S21 Editing Topic for the Thoro... PepeLePew13 10-01-10 2  RE: S21 Editing Topic for the Thoro... Brownroach 10-01-10 3    RE: S21 Editing Topic for the Thoro... Outfrontgirl 10-01-10 4        RE: S21 Editing Topic for the Thoro... Brownroach 10-02-10 6        RE: S21 Editing Topic for the Thoro... Belle Book 10-02-10 7        Editing the Swap Krautboy 10-05-10 8  Sash Krautboy 10-06-10 9  RE: S21 Editing Topic for the Thoro... Outfrontgirl 11-05-10 10  RE: S21 Editing Topic for the Thoro... Outfrontgirl 11-08-10 11  RE: S21 Editing Topic for the Thoro... kiki_k 11-13-10 12    RE: S21 Editing Topic for the Thoro... Outfrontgirl 11-13-10 13  Sash's mystery misdeed Outfrontgirl 11-20-10 14    RE: Sash's mystery misdeed kiki_k 11-20-10 15        RE: Sash's mystery misdeed Outfrontgirl 11-20-10 16            Another hint: kiki_k 11-20-10 17        RE: Sash's mystery misdeed Outfrontgirl 11-21-10 20        RE: Sash's mystery misdeed Outfrontgirl 11-21-10 21        Could it be a race issue? kiki_k 11-21-10 23            RE: Could it be a race issue? Outfrontgirl 11-21-10 24                RE: Could it be a race issue? kiki_k 11-21-10 25  Thoughts on Jud kiki_k 11-20-10 18    RE: Thoughts on Jud Outfrontgirl 11-21-10 19        RE: Thoughts on Jud kiki_k 11-21-10 22            RE: Thoughts on Jud samboohoo 12-03-10 29  NaOnka kiki_k 12-02-10 26    RE: NaOnka PepeLePew13 12-03-10 27        RE: NaOnka samboohoo 12-03-10 28        RE: NaOnka byoffer 12-03-10 30

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Round Robin 2914 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 10-01-10, 00:51 AM (EST) 1. "RE: S21 Editing Topic for the Thoroughly Spoiled" I haven't thought much about Kelly S., probably because she hasn't been shown much. But they've been beating us over the head with her fellow quitter NaOnka, and the difference interests me. I think you'd have to agree that she's getting one of the most negative edits in Survivor history, and is it because they're pi$$ed off at her for quitting, because they're pi$$ed off at her for her poor behavior, or is she simply stirring up such a crap storm that the stench cannot be ignored and they simply cannot tell the story without giving us a snootful of her horsecrap behavior. I can't believe any human being would deliberately behave that badly on national TV where not only her family, friends, colleagues, bosses, students and their families but also 20 million other people can see every evil thing she does. They need to call the guys with the white coats and the straitjacket to meet the plane when that dame comes home. Good heavens, what a whackjob!   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 10-01-10, 08:17 PM (EST) 5. "RE: S21 Editing Topic for the Thoroughly Spoiled" LOL, well expressed, RR! I made a spec before last eip that she might try to damage or steal Kelly's leg. I doubt she will, but in the preview we get confirmation she would like to ... confessional that Kelly B had best keep the leg away from the fire. How sick is her imagination?   Top

PepeLePew13 26134 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 10-01-10, 12:22 PM (EST) 2. "RE: S21 Editing Topic for the Thoroughly Spoiled" >QUITTERS >We know that Na Onka and Kelly S are going to >quit near the end of the game. Do you >think that their early edits >are different because of what >they did later? Kelly >Purple has been somewhat invisible. >Is that due to her personality, or is >she being punished for her sin? Every show needs a villain, and Na'Onka fits the bill perfectly. There's a reason why people still bring up Omarosa's (Apprentice) name around the water cooler. She's getting this edit because of who she is, not because she's a quitter. Kelly Purple is boring. >a) What about Sash? We >are three episodes in and >we don't see much of >him. Has there ever >been a F3 player this >UTR in the first three eps? I don't think Sash has been as UTR so far as numerous other F3ers have been. We got a good zinger from him during the Shannon rant TC, and it makes sense that some of the early boots get more attention this early in the game (it's the Jimmy Johnson Show and Fabio's in the house!). Think back to past champions such as Tina and Vecepia, or other finalists such as Cassandra - they either didn't get any air time early but gained as the game went along or were simply invisible the whole time because they didn't make for good TV. >b) Chase is not being edited >as very game savvy. >But could his arc be >more complex? Sure. There's still another 10 or 11 episodes to go. >c) What do you think of >Jud's edit? No question >that we're supposed to find >him entertaining, but does he >seem too blonde for the >win? ... Jud >is no mastermind, but he >is deliberately playing the buffoon. I think that Fabio is doing a beautiful job of diverting attention away from whatever real game-playing skills he has, as I'm sure he must have if he gets to the end. People don't perceive him as a threat at this point in the game so he's "harmless" to keep around, and I wouldn't be surprised if he starts to play the game for real when there are a half-dozen left in the game. Great topic you've started, OFG!   Top

Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 10-01-10, 04:08 PM (EST) 3. "RE: S21 Editing Topic for the Thoroughly Spoiled" LAST EDITED ON 10-01-10 AT 04:10 PM (EST) I don't know if Naonka is ragging on all her tribemates, but we sure see her ragging on Kelly B and Jud all the time. We know Kelly B is leaving next from La Flor, and I get the feeling Naonka must be highly instrumental in her boot. Kelly B is supposed to be sympathetic; clearly, Naonka is not, but Naonka is going to win that round. However... Jud, Naonka's other nemesis, makes it all the way to F3. Does he give Naonka her comeuppance by winning the million dollars? Does Naonka perhaps even end up voting for him? Is that the reason why all this is being showcased now?   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 10-01-10, 08:11 PM (EST) 4. "RE: S21 Editing Topic for the Thoroughly Spoiled" LAST EDITED ON 10-01-10 AT 08:14 PM (EST) I agree, Pepe. I do think Na Onka would get the same edit. Kelly S may or may not be boring. She's not drama, we know that. She has got herself positioned in the majority alliance, which is some accomplishment. You are right that we've had some invisible finalists in past seasons, but the thing is that Sash is supposedly villain material and not playing UTR either. They had to show the Shannon TC moment, as Sash was at the center of Shannon's meltdown moment. Otherwise they have not shown him that I recall since Shannon told Sash how dumb Fabio is. BR, great point that the Jud/Na Onka story has more longevity than the Na Onka vs. Kelly B story. Interestingly, Na Onka will be on the other tribe when Kelly B gets blindsided. It will be Brenda, Sash, Fabio, and Kelly Purple of her own tribe who could potentially take her out. None of these were among the La Flors I remember being shown saying that Kelly B has to go. (Shannon, Alina, Na Onka). Kind of goes against the assumption that those shown plotting her demise will figure into that story. For the sake of keeping things straight, here are the swapped tribes again: #1 Brenda, Kelly S, Fabio, Sash, Kelly B Jane, Marty, Jill #2 Ben, Na Onka, Chase, Alina Tyrone, Holly, Danny, Yve As we see, the Kelly B vs. Na Onka rivalry ends after the upcoming episode, other than possible snide remarks about the leg from challenge rival. Will Brenda carry on with Na Onka's animosity towards Kelly B, or will the blindside be pure strategy? The "Fabio gets Na Onka hate" storyline will be put on ice for three episodes. Interesting that later on she stabs Brenda in the back and not Fabio. NO and Brenda are about to be separated too, so that bonding (if any) should be shown this next episode. Of course we know that the HII hunt will be key to their interaction. Another question: do we think there are any hidden alliances that we haven't been shown yet? For example, the F3: are any two of them or all three of them in an alliance with each other at present? I don't mean the big alliance of the tribe, but rather a hidden F2/F3 agreement that the editors may have withheld from us.   Top

Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 10-02-10, 10:47 AM (EST) 6. "RE: S21 Editing Topic for the Thoroughly Spoiled" LAST EDITED ON 10-02-10 AT 11:07 AM (EST) I wasn't sure if the switched tribes were certain yet and didn't feel like rummaging through the missyae thread to check. Probably they haven't shown the other LaFlors dissing Kelly B so the audience will have false hope that she can survive once they see that she got away from Naonka. She will still be in a majority with her LaFlor mates. Ironically, it won't do her any good. ETA re hidden F3 alliances: I don't think so at this point. Chase was too torn up over his dual alliance disaster to form yet another non-Brenda alliance. I don't sense any Sash/Jud connection; that might change with the switch. But in general the LaFlors seem too chaotic for level-headed planning that will take them from beginning to end. I'm sensing the F3 gets there in slapdash fashion.   Top

Belle Book 3613 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 10-02-10, 12:11 PM (EST) 7. "RE: S21 Editing Topic for the Thoroughly Spoiled" I suspect once Kelly B. and Na'Onka are separated, we'll see Brenda, Kelly S. and Sash say that Kelly B. has to go -- but not because they hate her, like Na'Onka does -- but because they fear she's a bigger threat than Marty and whoever from the older tribe makes the merge. If it's Jill who goes before the merge (and first from the tribe she's put onto), that'll make it all the more tempting to get rid of Kelly B. next. As for why Na'Onka decides to betray Brenda and not go after Fabio, maybe she bonds more with Chase and Benry. We also know Brenda's really strategic, so maybe she decides she's got to get rid of Brenda. I'm sure there are hidden agreements that have been withheld from us -- I just don't know when we'll see them.   Top

Krautboy 2750 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 10-05-10, 12:20 PM (EST) 8. "Editing the Swap" Good topic OFG... The tribal Swap is a major event the editors are setting up to squeeze as much out of as possible. The Kelly B. story has been one of the main storylines leading up to the swap. Kelly has been edited as a likely boot target because she is considered a “sympathy vote” threat and outside the main alliance. Kelly B. appears to be in trouble. The editors have not made any attempt to hide the fact that Kelly is the next La Flor to go, because the swap will probably be edited to make it appear to save her. Kelly will be relieved and think she is part of the majority Brenda, Kelly S, Fabio, Sash, Kelly B Jane, Marty, Jill At first glance, the post swap tribe appears to have Kelly B. in the majority with her fellow La Flors. However, Brenda and company must still consider her a dangerous swing vote, in the event she went over to Jane, Marty and Jill, forcing a 4-4 tie at TC. So, the other La Flors probably tell her the target is one of the Espada’s setting her up to be “blind-sided” by her former tribe mates. After Kelly B. is gone, picking off Jill is an easy next boot for the remaining original La Flor. Krautboy   Top

Krautboy 2750 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 10-06-10, 11:45 AM (EST) 9. "Sash" Sash is getting an edit that has a long arc culminating in a F3 finish. Based on the following quotes from Missyae, it appears that Sash will not win. This season the winner will be likeable and Sash will probably develop into more of a villian... heyheyitspeter wrote: Heard a few times this so called racist is Matt, but i don't understand why he is 'cuz he's only part jamaican!! will the show explore this storyline do you think? Missyae replied: "I don't know if they will go in that direction or not. I do think it ends up costing him some damage in The Game, so they could have the opportunity to go that way if they want to. Depends how open he was with it. Sounds to me like he was pretty obvious with his feelings." Missyae Replied: "There was one finalist the jury did not care much for." "I think everyone is giving too much thought to how and whether or not you will like the finish. There could be many reasons why. Maybe its an athletic finish, maybe its popular characters, maybe someone gets roasted. I really think you should stick to hard core spoilers instead of the more opinionated ones. The player Naonka betrayed was not Matt. I do know how the filming schedule was affected by the 2 quitters now. Not something I have seen anyone speculate on, not even me. Another first I think." Missyae wrote: “You would think if they are gonna allow Shannon to be roasted for his gay comment to Sash, they would allow Sash to be roasted for a 'minority' alliancewhich leaves out white people? That is not a spoiler, just thinking to myself. Does he get a free pass?” “Don't worry, there is plenty to come from Sash to be hated for.” Paparazzi wrote: ________________________________________ I think Shannon said somewhere in his thread that as far as he knows no one in the cast likes Sash, which doesn't bode well for him getting jury votes. Interesting. Missyae Replied: “Thats not true.” DaMENACE wrote: ________________________________________ goldenmike4393 wrote: ________________________________________ knit57 contributed to the poll: Spoilers are like turning to the last chapter of the book. Lots of us do it and still read the book, even the last chapter, we just want to know how it turns out. More fun that way. Good analogy! I put it this way: I always open my Christmas presents EARLY, but I still celebrate Christmas along with everyone else. It's as if I had two Christmases! It's not about what happened for me... it is about how it happened. AND, back in the older days of spoiling there were spoilers that were always a little bit wrong so a surprise happened now and again. That would be nice once in awhile. Missyae Replied: “I could do that but I thought others had that already covered. Okay, how about this then, Sash will win.” Most telling is Missyae's comment "Sash will win" in response to a request for a spoiler that is "a little wrong". Sash makes the F3 but comes up short. Krautboy   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-05-10, 09:53 AM (EST) 10. "RE: S21 Editing Topic for the Thoroughly Spoiled" I've forgotten to add to this ... I thought this cap was funny. Let us out, Jeff! We quit! _______ There must be stuff to note about how they're starting to set up the ending.   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-08-10, 11:06 PM (EST) 11. "RE: S21 Editing Topic for the Thoroughly Spoiled" I'd love to see some more action in this topic, some hindsight comments on the predictions in the unspoiled editing topic perhaps. For example, Marty and Alina: It was noted that Alina's first episode confessional revolved around her being ready to vote Marty off. It was said that maybe she will last until she can do that, or until the two of them finish their story together. That panned out in that they both made merge, but Marty outlasted Alina. However, she did vote for Marty. Not because of a big personality conflict of older vs. younger, but because Marty was where she had an opening. I like to note how these things pan out, because we will probably have other seasons that are less spoiled.   Top

kiki_k 1444 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson" 11-13-10, 03:12 AM (EST) 12. "RE: S21 Editing Topic for the Thoroughly Spoiled" LAST EDITED ON 11-13-10 AT 03:14 AM (EST) I'm moving this here because I posted this in the missyae spoilers thread & OFG told me this would be a better thread for this discussion & I agree. Additonally, I want to bump this thread up because I missed it before. Also, I have some more "thoughts" I would like to discuss at the end (I've separated thoughts from my previous post with italics). I wanted to discuss Brenda's diss of NaOnka at TC last night episode. She said "who would you rather take to the final 3 -- a troublemaker like NaOnka or someone who catches fish like Jane?" I think this is a turning point for both NaOnka & Jane to vote Brenda out next week. This was yet another example of Brenda's poor gameplay, imo. First, she outright told NaOnka that she is her goat and I honestly don't think NaOnka realized that until tonight. Yes, NaOnka seemed to be ok with it saying that "if someone wants to take me to the finals because I embarrass myself, so be it" but I think that was a bunch of BS -- NaOnka thinks very, very well of herself and she is not going to like the fact that Brenda is keeping her around to be her goat. Second, she outright told Jane she isn't getting close to the finals, if Brenda has anything to say about it. Brenda simply could have said (especially since Marty was going home that night) "What Marty said might be true, or it could be that Marty doesn't like Jane and is trying to deflect attention from himself" OR, even better, she could have given a political non-answer such as "You never know how the jury is going to vote" and left it at that. Either of those answers would have not shown her hand re: NaOnka & Jane & thus, I believe, not given either one of them a reason to go after her instead. I think Brenda has modeled herself on Pavarti (something that OFG has pointed out before) in that she expects men to "do things for her." However, she can't touch Pavarti's game. While Pavarti has never been a personal fav of mine, she did more than rely on the men to do things for her -- for example, Pavarti NEVER would have given Chase the cold shoulder like Brenda did last episode (as has been pointed out by others, Brenda's job when one of her alliance members gets paranoid is to reassure him/her, not act in a way that will make him more paranoid & send him running into the arms of Jane). Also, Pavarti would never have shown all her cards at TC -- if Pavarti had been asked if Marty was right & Jane was a threat, she would have said "Everyone is a threat" (something Pavarti has actually said at TC when Jeff was trying to fish info from her). In other words, while Brenda is smart, she isn't as smart as Pavarit who knew how to keep her mouth shut. Brenda has the need to show off how smart she is by bragging about her plans to Jeff at TC. I also think the "Jud wins" edit started in earnest tonight last episode with the scene with Benry where Jud says "I hate playing dumb so much" and his confessional that playing dumb/cool is the best strategy right now. And he is 100% right with these over-emotional players who vote out people because they don't like them and who make sure to get rid of anyone who commits the sin of trying to strategize instead of going like a lamb to the slaughter. {rolls eyes} I've noticed this season there has been A LOT of talk about how "smart" people are and how "dumb" others are. Marty, Sash and Brenda haven't gone a single episode it seems without telling us how dang SMART they are, and we've heard several people say how dumb and/or clueless Jud and Chase are. The problem the "smart" people have is they can't shut up about how smart they are, and that is what is going to do them in. And it totally plays into a Jud"winner" edit -- the guy who was smart enough to keep his mouth shut and make everyone else think he was dumb defeats all the self-proclaimed "smart" people.   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-13-10, 08:14 PM (EST) 13. "RE: S21 Editing Topic for the Thoroughly Spoiled" kiki, that's an amazing post. I agree about Brenda's gameplay, entirely. Nice analysis of Parvati. It was always said that she was dangerous because she was so charming. We are not shown Brenda's charm. We've been shown that she tossed Chase aside in disdain. She seems to have forgotten about her numbers. She and Sash were shown going from the head of a majority alliance of 5 or 6, to two swing votes. She was shown going from cultivating Jane to not hanging with her. In fact, no one was seen really hanging out with Brenda. Na Onka was shown telling Chase not to irritate Brenda. For Na Onka to say something that socially aware, I think that Brenda must have major moodiness. It was interesting seeing Na Onka acting as glue between her allies. Brenda was shown as not trying hard enough. She was not willing to pretend to be supportive of an ally.OTOH, we have seen Fabio and Ben shown as willing to play a role, whatever they need to do. I love your idea of smart vs. dumb. Marty called Jane and Chase dumb and dumber. Marty was smart and is gone. Brenda was too happy and sure of herself when she won the IC. When Jeff asked her if she was sure she was right, she didn't hesitate. That is something other people see. She could have faked some doubt and tried to seem lucky that she remembered. Before the swap, we saw Marty announcing that nothing could go wrong with his plans, then the rug was pulled out under him. Last episode, we saw Brenda saying she is in control. Following the pattern, she will have everything turn upside down the next day. It is spoiled that Na Onka is going to tell Chase that Brenda is taking Nay and Purple to the F3, probably at the reward. Fabio will be there, and I hope we see him casting doubt and working Chase. Jane will surely turn on Brenda. People should start saying that Brenda is going to win if they don't take her out. Sash was shown as a guy who takes care of himself only, so he won't fight it.   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-20-10, 02:09 AM (EST) 14. "Sash's mystery misdeed" Seems to be the season for edit as punishment. I think this could be why Sash disappeared between for 3-4 episodes -- then suddenly reappeared when they had to show him running the camp with Brenda and asking for the idol. Weirdest F3 edit ever for someone who was actually controlling alliances. Sure they've done invisible starts for UTR players who ride coattails, but clearly Sash did not do that.   Top

kiki_k 1444 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson" 11-20-10, 02:29 AM (EST) 15. "RE: Sash's mystery misdeed" Between the quitters & Sash's mystery misdeed, the editors had a lot of work to do to this season! I guess for reality show wh@res no screen time is the worst punishment they could get, but I'm just so confused by the Survivor rules. Whatever Sash did, Jeff stopped the cameras from rolling during the TC to handle it. If it is that bad, why not disqualify Sash from the game? It must have been something close to crossing the line but not actually crossing the line. It seems to have po'd the jury though. I'm DYING to know what he did!! It seems to be the most exciting thing that happened in Nicaragua.   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-20-10, 03:18 AM (EST) 16. "RE: Sash's mystery misdeed" Hints like that sure do make imaginations run wild. I doubt very much that it was obscene or violent. Not Sash's MO. He's a manipulator. It may have crossed the line for disqualification. All those rules are at DISCRETION of the producers. If they think the harm to the game and the season outweighs the rest, they may let it go. Apparently it happens at F6, from the hints. That's awfully close to the end to DQ someone from the game, especially after they had two quits the TC before last.   Top

kiki_k 1444 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson" 11-20-10, 03:55 PM (EST) 17. "Another hint:" Missyae posted this today (gah! I'm spending so much time there because of this intrigue!): It did happen at TC. Once Sash made the final 3 it became part of the equation. He played very solidly BUT did he really do that? Guess they decided he did. The other part of the equation was not a Mr. or Ms. clean either, so it did warrant some consideration. So, it involves someone else (ie not Mr. or Ms. clean) and it isn't that he tried to get Kelly S. to sway the jury for him. It is most likely the thing that makes Marty & Dan want to kick his butt at the final TC. And results in him getting no votes even though we have seen him playing a fairly decent game (among this group of terrible gameplayers, that isn't saying much, but still . . .). I will note that missyae's prior hint doesn't exactly match up with this one. Previously he said while it was happening at TC Jeff stopped the cameras -- meaning the jury actually saw it go down -- and they will present it as a "did he or didn't he" kind of thing. Now he is implying that the jury doesn't know for sure & they decided he did do it. Arrg! Maybe I'm reading too much into it -- it is all probably much ado about nothing.   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-21-10, 00:06 AM (EST) 20. "RE: Sash's mystery misdeed" Well, my take is that it happened at camp between two people, thus the he said she said not squeaky clean clue. Who does missyae not like -- Jane is the only one. It happened at TC because that's where it got raised to Jeff and everyone. Producers came out, so it involved the rules. Cameras stopped, so most likely the producers and legal team were going over the rules and making a call. It wasn't something really violent in camp, or it would have been stopped there, and that is so not Sash. All the sexual guesses seem not at all Sash as well, and not Jane. There is one big Grandaddy of Rules on Survivor that will get you DQ'd from the game. If Sash is not DQ'd, but people believed he did it, not voting for him is the jury's way of DQing him. That rule is that you may not conspire to split winnings.   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-21-10, 00:25 AM (EST) 21. "RE: Sash's mystery misdeed" Rules posted by Andy Dehnart of Reality Blurred http://www.realityblurred.com/realitytv/archives/survivor/2010_May_31_survivor_rules A. 5. Contestants are prohibited from making sharing or making any agreement to share all or any portion of the Prize (or from making any other similar quid pro quo agreement whereby one Contestant receives a benefit or some form of consideration whether money or otherwise) after the Series has concluded) with any Contestant or any relative of any Contestant, or any representative of or any representative of or person affiliated with another Contestant in any way. Such prohibited consideration may take, without limitation, the form of sharing the Prize or other prizes, or the form of purposefully losing Challenges in exchange for money or employment or consideration of any kind to be received after the production of the Series. Evidence of any such sharing or agreement to share or any other quid pro quo agreement, or the breach of any other Rule by a Contestant, may, in Producer's sole discretion, result in that Contestant's expulsion from the Series location and competition and/or that Contestant's forfeiture of the Prize and/or any other prizes, even if already awarded.   Top

kiki_k 1444 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson" 11-21-10, 01:55 AM (EST) 23. "Could it be a race issue?" LAST EDITED ON 11-21-10 AT 03:26 AM (EST) Maybe Sash says something offensive about whites re: his minority alliance thing with NaOnka? Remember Probst's pre-show intro he said that Sash possibly having what it takes if only he could remove the "boulder on his shoulder". And he went on about how Sash had apparently clashed with him in relation to him not "getting" what it is like to be from Harlem. It was by far the most cutting stuff Probst said about anyone pre-season with the possible exception of Shannon - who Probst (rightly) thought had mouth disconnected from his brain. And, btw, Sash is full of it about minorities having any kind of disadvantage in Survivor based on past winners: Survivor Winners 1. Richard Hatch. Gay. 2. Tina Wesson. Female. (yes, women are minorities, whether anyone wants to concede that or not). 3. Ethan Zohn. Jewish (I'm putting him as white male). 4. Vecepia Towery. Female. African American. 5. Brain Haidik. White male. 6. Jenna Morasca. Female. 7. Sandra Diaz-Twine. Female. Hispanic. 8. Amber Brkich. Female. 9. Chris Daughtery. White male. 10. Tom Westman. White male 11. Danni Boatwright. Female. 12. Aras Baskauskas. (Sounds kind of "ethnic"; But I'm putting his as white male). 13. Yul Kwan. Asian 14. Earl Cole. African American. 15. Todd Herzog. Gay. 16. Parvati Shallow. Female. 17. Bob Crowley. White male 18. JT Thomas. White male 19. Natalie White. Female 20. Sandra Diaz-Twine. Female. Hispanic. A double minority, yes? Who won twice, I hear. I'm getting that 70 percent of the winners have been minorities -- though keep in mind I'm not even including the obviously mentally handicapped (Chris Daughtrey), and those with pretty clearly "ethnic" names (Ethan Zohn & Aras Baskauskas). eta: that is a joke about Chris Daughtrey, but that guy really was as dumb as a bag of hair.   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-21-10, 03:30 AM (EST) 24. "RE: Could it be a race issue?" I don't think so. We've had prejudiced players before, and look at BB too. I think the key is that PRODUCERS came to TC. It is something involving a decision on rules. I really think the people on Sucks have it who are guessing it's about jury tampering, bribery, some form of breaking the sharing winnings rule. We know that Tina bought Colby a Harley after she won. If she promised to buy him a Harley if he took her instead of Keith, that would have been grounds to DQ them both if they were caught. But that presents a problem of how do you end the game if you DQ your end game players? btw, I never heard that she promised when still in the game, that was a hypothetical. Sash is a businessman. I don't see him doing something hateful on TV, that would ruin his career, but I could see him try to negotiate something shady, because that's what he does in the real world anyway.   Top

kiki_k 1444 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson" 11-21-10, 03:57 AM (EST) 25. "RE: Could it be a race issue?" I defer to you -- I just want it to be something juicy! I heard that Tina & Colby had promised each other that the winner would buy the loser a Harley after they were already F2 -- that is different than promising something to a potential jury member, imo.   Top

kiki_k 1444 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson" 11-20-10, 11:33 PM (EST) 18. "Thoughts on Jud" A poster at sucks stated something to the effect that Jud/Fabio is the only "innocent" this season -- all the rest are terrible people/lacking morally or some other tragic flaw. I kind of like that idea- Alina -- schemer/untrustworthy Marty -- arrogant Brenda -- cocky/prideful Benry -- total a-hole (just my opinion, but yeah) Chase -- ball-less NaOnka -- self-evident Kelly S. -- useless, quits Jane -- yeah she catches fish, but she eats them by herself too Holly -- the Dan's shoes thing did happen Sash -- sneaky? disloyal (to Brenda for sure) Dan -- ?? I don't know what Dan's would be other than physically weak, but that wouldn't qualify as lacking morally. Anyway, I kind of like the idea of Fabio being the "innocent" who triumps over the "evil" Anyone else have any thoughts to flesh this out?   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-21-10, 00:01 AM (EST) 19. "RE: Thoughts on Jud" Those are very interesting thoughts, agree with most, certainly Marty and Brenda. I don't think there is an Evil this time, but I do think that two many people are playing to the camera, and Fabio is showing an appreciation of where he is. Much like Matty in Gabon, who didn't win. I think Holly is the "favorite" of the women. I think the shoes thing is long gone. I think the reason to give Jane FF edit is she showed her toughness with the immunities, she made fire without flint (a first), she catches fish, she is recently widowed, and she makes a big deal about being poor. Holly is married and financially comfortable. I may vote Holly for fan favorite. I don't think Dan has been shown with any moral weakness. He is rich and nobody would give a rich guy a million in this young group. Sash is going to be shown having an end game alliance with everyone. He's been juggling a lot, and it will catch up with him. He is the villain, but he's so not much of a villain compared to the last two seasons. Benry is a strong competitor, but yeah, he doesn't care about other people much. Chase cares too much. Chase is also hung up on becoming a country singer, and I think that is his problem. He was a football player, now he's a sensitive and moral country music guy. Alina was edited the way you say, despite the fact most viewers like Alina.   Top

kiki_k 1444 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson" 11-21-10, 01:19 AM (EST) 22. "RE: Thoughts on Jud" LAST EDITED ON 11-21-10 AT 01:23 AM (EST) Re: Jane's fire without flint -- didn't Gretchen (I think that was her name) use BB's glasses on the very first Survivor to start a fire? I seem to remember that, but of course I could be wrong. Re: themes this season. I agree that there isn't really an evil this time. I especially agree with you about Alina -- I love Alina & didn't get all the "hate" the editors were trying to make us feel for her. Marty, of course, is a pompous a$$, Brenda is too cocky and Benry is an a--hole (imo -- I can just tell looking at him, plus he will NEVER live down the "dirt squirell" comment he said about Alina -- totally sexist pig -- and he was a camera guy for those horrid Girls Gone Wild video & he's proud of that -- unforgivable as far as I'm concerned). Those are part of their characters & while I'm sure the editing helped show those parts of them, they are predominately that way IRL, so it didn't take much to show them that way re: the edit. Anyway, I was just trying to think about how the editors want us to see this cast, because the editing hasn't been super-positive toward anyone except arguably Jud (they still show his goofiness although not as much as they could -- as Veruca points out in her editing thread). Yeah, I'm sure one could say Jane is getting a positive edit, but her rant about Marty's kids was pretty over the top (they could have left that for the Insider Clips) & they didn't have to show her eating that fish by herself if they wanted a true "hero" edit for her. Yes, that scene was juxtaposed with a confessional from Sash saying he was happy to sit on his lazy butt while the old people worked (not in so many words) which took some of the sting out of Jane's hoarding of the fish, but still. I know I'm grasping at straws here. The biggest problem for the editors this season in constructing a theme, imo, is this cast of duds. I hate to agree with Marty, but most of them don't seem to be playing the game -- and those who are, are resented for it (see Alina). Marty & Brenda were definately playing the game too; however, they were not playing a GOOD game, imo, because they couldn't shut up about it, to us or to their fellow tribe members at TC or to those not in their alliance (see Marty v. Holly & Jane). I'm left with Sash & Fabio as the only other two who are playing good games, but in different ways. And really, if Sash didn't have the HII he'd be the next to go, so his game isn't *that* good, it is just good compared to the others. I said before that the only theme I see is Smart v. Dumb. I still think that is the most likely theme, if that is a theme, this season. Survivor needs to stop casting models/actors/beach bodies & go back to casting real people who want to play the game & not to the camera, imo.   Top

samboohoo 17173 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-03-10, 11:40 AM (EST) 29. "RE: Thoughts on Jud" You are correct about Gretchen. Samboobree, brought to life by Arkie   Top

kiki_k 1444 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson" 12-02-10, 09:39 PM (EST) 26. "NaOnka " I'm putting this here because I really don't know where else to put it & would really appreciate some of y'all's insights. I know NaOnka got the vile edit that she got because she quit. I know she actually did do all those things we saw, but they showed us almost nothing "good" about her and obviously that was directly related to her quitting, as I'm sure, given the hardon MB & Probst have for that other sociopath Russell, they would have loved to have NaOnka back & would have editted her a little better. Which brings me to what I've been thinking about lately. Make no mistake, Russell is every bit of a sociopath as NaOnka is. To me, neither one of them should have been cast on Survivor, where they should have some kind of psych exam to make sure, with the elements/conditions these people are going to playing in, that they are realitively healthy mentally to handle it. Both Russell & NaOnka would have turned the game into Lord of the Flies if the could have and, in fact, did everything they could do to make it Lord of the Flies out there. But, besides the editting details (where MB insured Russell could at least be seen as "more strategic" than NaOnka -- which I don't believe he was) why is it that while the vast majority of people (rightfully) loath NaOnka, Russell actually has fans! And the reason I say besides the editting is because before the majority of viewers knew that NaOnka quit, they still reviled her. OTOH, Russell was actually voted fan favorite for crying out loud. Anyone else think it is a sexist thing? That is, the kind of sociopathic behavior Russell & NaOnka both exhibited is some how more "acceptable" when a man does it?   Top

PepeLePew13 26134 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-03-10, 11:01 AM (EST) 27. "RE: NaOnka " LAST EDITED ON 12-03-10 AT 11:15 AM (EST) That's a good question, kiki. I think it has mainly to do with Russhole clearly outlining his strategy from the get-go and justifying what he was doing as part of the game. By contrast, NaBonkers isn't trying to do anything strategic whatsoever and is in it completely for herself. Russhole knows the importance of having an alliance partner and he wouldn't have been openly talking about sabotaging others in front of tribemates while NaBonkers doesn't give a shiv and thinks nothing of openly sabotaging Kelly B's leg. Yes, both are clueless when it comes to thinking they're unbeatable to everyone else in the game, but Russhole is sneakily despicable in the context of gameplay while NaBonkers is openly despicable without caring about the game's outcome. I think that's the main difference between these two as it's easier to respect that Russhole was trying to play the game a certain way even if we didn't like some of what he did.   Top

samboohoo 17173 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-03-10, 11:39 AM (EST) 28. "RE: NaOnka " Agree completely. I don't think it has anything to do with sexism at all. Samboobree, brought to life by Arkie   Top

byoffer 15947 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-03-10, 05:03 PM (EST) 30. "RE: NaOnka " I agree with you Pepe, but wonder if we have this backwards. This situation sort of reminds me of two types of people I have seen in the office place over the years. Both are inclined to make non-politically correct statements. One guy - we will call him Pete - makes them without knowing that they are offensive. The other guy - Dave - knows he is crossing the line but says them anyway. From my experience people are way more offended by Dave than by Pete, the latter of which gets some "excusure" due to naivety. But on Survivor we seem much more willing to forgive the person who knowingly crosses the line. Why do some people call Russell's game "smart offensive" and Naonka's game just "offensive". IMO the difference is that Survivor is a game that doesn't require the players to follow the norms of society. Certainly some of the greatest players of Survivor ever have had to make some moves that are not acceptable in society. Is lying okay? Stealing? Throwing a challenge? How about walking around nekid?? I think Hatch did all of these, and many of us feel he is the greatest Survivor ever. The conundrum for us as viewers is to evaluate these people with unclear "game-society" expectations. (all this is pre-quit - after the quit Naonka is just a "game-dog" (with apologies to dogs everywhere))   Top

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