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"The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Samoa"
VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
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09-08-09, 09:04 AM (EST)
 
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"The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Samoa" |
Enjoy the season!Once again, Jeff's "take" on prior winners: (JT) Likeable kid. Runs a ranch. He knows what hard work is. I think JT is OK being by himself, which is also good out here 'cause there's a lot of lonely nights. I think JT's gonna get flirted with...and probably do some heavy flirting himself.
(Bob) "He's the oldest guy out there. And unfortunately, that works against people all the time, even though there's probably nobody better equipped for this game. He's probably the guy who will be the biggest asset, if they don't get foolish and vote him out." "To me Parvati is this season's Amber. Last time, Parvati used her flirting, and it got her a long way. But we didn't really see her do a whole lot more than that, and the question was, what if underneath that she's got a strategy? What if she's figured out how to play this game- could she last long enough to become a threat? Parvati's a question mark." "Todd is a Survivor super fan who's wanted to be on since he was 14. Next to Courtney, he's probably the smallest person here. He's what you look for — a great personality who knows how to play this game." and "This kid couldn't drive when we started. He did know the game. It's because he's been watching since he was a kid. I'll tell ya, in his case, it pays off. He knew going in how to start the game. He had a game plan how an alliance best worked and how you worked people" "Yul could absolutely win this game; I'd be delighted if he did; a super likeable guy" and "Yul is a player. You underestimate Yul, you'll be going home before he will... He studied the show. As somebody who wants to play this game and have a shot at winning he's studied the show" "I'm not sure what he's (Aras) bringing. He's bringing a lot of talk. Does he know how to play Survivor? We'll find out. That's all I've got on Aras." "Danni is someone that I think people are probably going to get behind. She's in great shape. She's tall and she's got a competition background" "Tom is salt-of-the-earth guy. A father. A firefighter. There's no chance of this guy being a villain. You hope he lasts long enough in the game to be a hero. If he does last for a while, he's the kind of guy who could win it, because people are going to look at him and say, You know what, why not him? Everything about him is good." "If Chris is everything he reports to be, he'll do just fine in the game, that's the question. Is he putting on a really this strong "I'll tackle anything bring it on, you can't beat me kind of guy? I don't know. I think he's one of the guys that could either emerge as really strong or fade fast" Also, a guy you know will play the game like Mariano; super exciting to us....." (Recall this is coming off from All Stars) The current group: Per Jeff, this cast reminds him of fans vs. favorites in terms of a sense of fun. Erik (28) Jeff says: Erik is a guy that, I actually wouldn't mind seeing Erik win. I like him, there's something about Erik that I root for. I think he's a scrapper. I don't think that guy would ever think of giving up but I do think he will double-cross as soon as he has to. Ashley (22) Jeff says: Ashley is already surprising me. I actually thought coming in that Ashley was just a bubbly fun person but the more I've seen her out there I actually think there's something to her. I think she's really got some spunk, some true gut. It wouldn't surprise me at all for her to go deep in the game. Dave Ball (38) Jeff says: Dave is a very interesting guy. Highest IQ, maybe of all time. His IQ was 140 and I'm pretty sure that's the highest we've ever had. Dave has something to prove, I don't know if it's to family or to himself, part of the reason he's out here is to prove that he can do it. Now, Dave could easily self-destruct. That's going to be his biggest challenge is to stay out of his own way. Russell Swan (42) Jeff says: Russell is pretty likeable. He's a great talker. He's got this engaging way about him. I don't think Russell can win the game. It's not that he's not savvy enough. I don't think Russell is built for a game like this that requires so much deception. So somebody is going to lose, I think it's going to be Russell.
Russell Hantz (36) Jeff says: Russell is the closest thing to evil we've ever had on Survivor. The guy has got a diabolical mind. He's got this great big idea that if I sabotage my own tribe they'll be so weak they'll be out of the game. Well that might be true but so will you. It is a tribe game for a long time. Russell has either forgotten or is unaware that this is a social game. He may get second, he damn sure aint gonna win. Brett (23) Jeff says: Brett's a bit of a dark horse. He's kind of hanging back with a cheery smile and "I just wanna do whatever I can to help out and play hard at challenges." But there's another side to Brett. He's done a good job of not revealing a lot. He could bode very well in this game. (I had to chuckle at that sentence) Typically, the less you show, the better off you are. Brett hasn't shown a whole lot yet Kelly (25) Jeff says: You know they say sometimes when you meet somebody they tell you everything about themselves the first few minutes if you really listen...I don't even think you have to talk to Kelly. You can just look at her. She's got "caution" and "trouble" tattooed on her body. And she's so cute, 9 out of 10 guys are gonna go..."I don't care I'm gonna take a chance anyway" and they'll probably pay the price for it. Shannon (45) Jeff says: The funny thing about Shannon is, everybody thought her name was Shannon, she said, I go by Shannon, that's what my name is...and then I asked her one day one, what's your name, "Shambo." She just reinvented herself. What a great name, Shambo. And I like her mullet, fits her to a T. Girl rides a Harley, you can see her hair blowing in the wind. She's an all American person. A real person there. Yasmin (33) Jeff says: Yasmin is a question mark for me. On one hand she seems very athletic like she could do very well at the challenges. On the other hand, not really sure how she's gonna feel about going into the woods to go to the bathroom. I don't know about Yasmin. If she was first off I wouldn't be surprised. I just think she's used to a softer life. Liz (33) Jeff says: Liz is not everything she appears to be. Liz comes off as a quiet confident nice person. Don't trust Liz. Liz could go far and I think she'll be a quiet person who maybe doesn't say a whole lot and before you know it, she's in the final. Ben (28) Jeff says: Ben is a time bomb. Dude is a time bomb waiting to go off, the question is when. It's gonna happen. If he lasts long enough in this game Ben will go off, like a bottle rocket. And then the question will be if he can recover from it. He's a really complicated and interesting player. Definitely want Ben to stick around.
Laura (39) Jeff says: Laura is one of my favorites. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that I think Laura could win this game. I think there's a lot more to her than meets the eye. Unless I'm completely wrong I think people are going to look at her and say she's real. I think if you let Laura get deep in the game, huge threat. Mike Borassi (62) Jeff says: Mike is not long for the game. He's not going to last long in this game. I just don't think so. It's too hard out here. I think Mike is going to make a few friends and maybe reveal he's a chef and cook up some food and then he's going to be gone, episode 5 or 6.
Betsy (48) Jeff says: I liked Betsy the second I met her. I think one of the appealing things about her is that she's not what you expect. Clearly, somebody who is a cop is willing to go however far you have to go. Betsy is a major threat in this game because she is really likeable and she will never quit and if you need somebody to dig down and do something, get Betsy to do it because she will. Marisa (26) Jeff says: Marisa, on paper, tailor made for Survivor. All these experiences around the world, taking care of her family and she's a nurturer but I think she might get eaten up just because she's not going to end up with the right people and she's going to become a sitting duck and she's going to be an early target. I wish Marisa would go deeper but if I had to bet, she'll be out by episode 5.
Natalie (26) Jeff says: I think Natalie is a scrapper. If you look at Natalie you might think, pretty girl who doesn't want to break her nails. I don't know, Natalie might surprise some people. I think she might get up there and bang her knees up a couple of times and get some bumps and bruises and then play the social part of this game really well. Mick (33) Jeff says: You know what, I don't trust Mick. I really don't. I think Mick is a guy who's a good looking guy, smart guy, probably a bit of privilege. Mick's the kind of guy who could manipulate people and get them to do what he wants and then not realize that he doesn't care about them as much as he's pretending to. I think Mick is probably a pretty good player. I bet he's played quite a few people. John Fincher (25) Jeff says: John is a poser. I think Fincher has been a guy that is so good looking that for so many years he's been given things. I don't know if he's come from privilege or if he's just made privilege work for him. He has the appearance of a guy who's used to having things work.
Monica (25) Jeff says: Monica is the type of woman that you look at and your angel inside of you says "don't do it, trouble." And then you look a little more and the devil says, "life is short, go for it." I think Monica will have a tougher time playing guys than she thinks but I think historically Monica is really good at it and probably more subtle than I realize and some of the guys out here realize. Jaison (28) Jeff says: I really like Jaison. I liked him the second he walked into casting. I don't think Jaison is going to become an early target. There's no reason. He's not going to irritate anyone. He's gonna do just enough to help give you the power that you think it's your idea and agree with you. Before you know it we're way into the jury and Jaison is now a huge physical threat that could kick your a.ss in every single challenge. You fool, you let him stay in the game this long, you fool. I would love to give that check to Jaison
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Author |
Message Date |
ID |
 RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... |
michel |
09-08-09 |
1 |
 RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... |
Belle Book |
09-09-09 |
3 |
| RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... |
Georjanna |
09-18-09 |
10 |
| RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... |
Outfrontgirl |
09-09-09 |
2 |
| RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... |
VerucaSalt |
09-09-09 |
4 |
| RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... |
Outfrontgirl |
09-10-09 |
5 |
| RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... |
mysticjay |
09-21-09 |
18 |
| RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... |
Georjanna |
09-11-09 |
6 |
| RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... |
VerucaSalt |
09-17-09 |
7 |
| RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... |
Georjanna |
09-18-09 |
9 |
| Episode 1 |
Outfrontgirl |
09-18-09 |
8 |
| RE: Episode 1 |
Flowerpower |
09-18-09 |
11 |
| RE: Episode 1 |
Outfrontgirl |
09-19-09 |
12 |
| RE: Episode 1 |
Flowerpower |
09-19-09 |
13 |
| RE: Episode 1 |
michel |
09-19-09 |
14 |
| RE: Episode 1 |
Belle Book |
09-20-09 |
15 |
| RE: Episode 1 |
michel |
09-21-09 |
16 |
| RE: Episode 1 |
dabo |
09-21-09 |
17 |
| RE: Episode 1 |
CTgirl |
09-23-09 |
19 |
| RE: Episode 1 |
Outfrontgirl |
09-24-09 |
20 |
| Episode 1 addendum: Russell |
Outfrontgirl |
09-24-09 |
21 |
| RE: Episode 1 addendum: Russell |
Flowerpower |
09-24-09 |
22 |
| RE: Episode 1 addendum: Russell |
CTgirl |
09-24-09 |
23 |
| RE: Episode 1 addendum: Russell |
Flowerpower |
09-24-09 |
24 |
| RE: Episode 1 addendum: Russell |
michel |
09-24-09 |
25 |
| RE: Episode 1 addendum: Russell |
Outfrontgirl |
09-24-09 |
26 |
| ARRRGGHHHH |
Flowerpower |
09-25-09 |
27 |
| RE: ARRRGGHHHH |
EmeraldBrooch |
09-25-09 |
28 |
| RE: ARRRGGHHHH |
redbeard103152 |
09-26-09 |
29 |
| Episode #2: Editing Thoughts: |
michel |
09-26-09 |
30 |
| RE: Episode #2: Editing Thoughts: |
Belle Book |
09-26-09 |
31 |
| RE: Episode #2: Editing Thoughts: |
Outfrontgirl |
09-26-09 |
32 |
| RE: Episode #2: Editing Thoughts: |
michel |
09-27-09 |
33 |
| RE: Episode #2: Editing Thoughts: |
Outfrontgirl |
09-27-09 |
34 |
| RE: Episode #2: Editing Thoughts: |
michel |
09-27-09 |
35 |
| RE: Episode #2: Editing Thoughts: |
Outfrontgirl |
09-27-09 |
36 |
| Comparison of Tribal Dynamics |
michel |
09-28-09 |
37 |
| RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... |
michel |
10-03-09 |
38 |
| RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... |
Belle Book |
10-03-09 |
39 |
| RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... |
Flowerpower |
10-04-09 |
40 |
| RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... |
michel |
10-05-09 |
41 |
| RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... |
CTgirl |
10-06-09 |
42 |
| RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... |
michel |
10-07-09 |
45 |
| RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... |
CTgirl |
10-07-09 |
47 |
| RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... |
Outfrontgirl |
10-06-09 |
43 |
| RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... |
Flowerpower |
10-07-09 |
44 |
| RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... |
Outfrontgirl |
10-07-09 |
46 |
| RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... |
DRONES |
10-08-09 |
48 |
| Episode #4: Editing Thoughts: |
michel |
10-10-09 |
49 |
| RE: Episode #4: Editing Thoughts: |
Belle Book |
10-11-09 |
50 |
| Episode 5 Editing Thoughts: |
michel |
10-17-09 |
51 |
| RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts: |
Georjanna |
10-18-09 |
52 |
| RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts: |
michel |
10-18-09 |
55 |
| RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts: |
Georjanna |
10-19-09 |
64 |
| RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts: |
Outfrontgirl |
10-18-09 |
53 |
| RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts: |
Outfrontgirl |
10-18-09 |
54 |
| RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts: |
goldenmike4393 |
10-27-09 |
96 |
| RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts: |
michel |
10-18-09 |
56 |
| RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts: |
Belle Book |
10-18-09 |
57 |
| RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts: |
Outfrontgirl |
10-18-09 |
59 |
| RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts: |
michel |
10-18-09 |
60 |
| RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts: |
Outfrontgirl |
10-18-09 |
61 |
| RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts: |
michel |
10-18-09 |
62 |
| RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts: |
Outfrontgirl |
10-18-09 |
63 |
| RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts: |
michel |
10-19-09 |
68 |
| RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts: |
Brownroach |
10-19-09 |
65 |
| RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts: |
CTgirl |
10-19-09 |
66 |
| RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts: |
Outfrontgirl |
10-19-09 |
67 |
| RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts: |
michel |
10-19-09 |
69 |
| RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts: |
Outfrontgirl |
10-19-09 |
70 |
| RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts: |
CTgirl |
10-22-09 |
71 |
| RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts: |
michel |
10-22-09 |
72 |
| RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts: |
Belle Book |
10-22-09 |
73 |
| RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts: |
CTgirl |
10-22-09 |
74 |
| RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts: |
Outfrontgirl |
10-23-09 |
75 |
| RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts: |
LFJ |
10-18-09 |
58 |
| Ep 6 editing thoughts |
Outfrontgirl |
10-23-09 |
76 |
| RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts |
Flowerpower |
10-23-09 |
77 |
| RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts |
esquire |
10-23-09 |
79 |
| RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts |
jbug |
10-23-09 |
78 |
| RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts |
Outfrontgirl |
10-24-09 |
82 |
| RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts |
PepeLePew13 |
10-23-09 |
80 |
| RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts |
SquidProQuo |
10-24-09 |
81 |
| RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts |
michel |
10-24-09 |
83 |
| RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts |
Outfrontgirl |
10-24-09 |
86 |
| RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts |
Flowerpower |
10-25-09 |
87 |
| RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts |
michel |
10-25-09 |
88 |
| RE: Flowerpower |
VerucaSalt |
10-26-09 |
90 |
| RE: Flowerpower |
Outfrontgirl |
10-26-09 |
92 |
| RE: Flowerpower |
SquidProQuo |
10-26-09 |
93 |
| RE: Flowerpower |
Outfrontgirl |
10-27-09 |
94 |
| RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts |
Outfrontgirl |
10-24-09 |
85 |
| RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts |
Outfrontgirl |
10-24-09 |
84 |
| RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts |
CTgirl |
10-25-09 |
89 |
| RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts |
michel |
10-26-09 |
91 |
| RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts |
Flowerpower |
10-27-09 |
95 |
| RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts |
CTgirl |
10-27-09 |
97 |
| RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts |
Outfrontgirl |
10-27-09 |
99 |
| RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts |
michel |
10-28-09 |
100 |
| RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts |
Brownroach |
10-28-09 |
101 |
| RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts |
michel |
10-28-09 |
103 |
| RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts |
Brownroach |
10-29-09 |
104 |
| RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts |
LFJ |
10-29-09 |
106 |
| RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts |
CTgirl |
10-28-09 |
102 |
| RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts |
Brownroach |
10-29-09 |
105 |
| RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts |
CTgirl |
10-29-09 |
107 |
| RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts |
Outfrontgirl |
10-27-09 |
98 |
| RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts |
SquidProQuo |
10-30-09 |
109 |
| RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts |
Outfrontgirl |
10-31-09 |
110 |
| RE: The Players, The Game, The Edit... |
Georjanna |
10-30-09 |
108 |
| Episode 7: Editing Thoughts |
michel |
10-31-09 |
111 |
| RE: Episode 7: Editing Thoughts |
Slider |
10-31-09 |
112 |
| RE: Episode 7: Editing Thoughts |
Outfrontgirl |
11-02-09 |
116 |
| RE: Episode 7: Editing Thoughts |
Belle Book |
10-31-09 |
113 |
| RE: Episode 7: Editing Thoughts |
goldenmike4393 |
11-02-09 |
114 |
| RE: Episode 7: Editing Thoughts |
Outfrontgirl |
11-02-09 |
118 |
| RE: Episode 7: Editing Thoughts |
michel |
11-02-09 |
119 |
| RE: Episode 7: Editing Thoughts |
Outfrontgirl |
11-02-09 |
120 |
| RE: Episode 7: Editing Thoughts |
Outfrontgirl |
11-03-09 |
121 |
| RE: Episode 7: Editing Thoughts |
PepeLePew13 |
11-03-09 |
122 |
| RE: Episode 7: Editing Thoughts |
Outfrontgirl |
11-03-09 |
123 |
| RE: Episode 7: Editing Thoughts |
michel |
11-03-09 |
124 |
| RE: Episode 7: Editing Thoughts |
suzzee |
11-05-09 |
125 |
| RE: Episode 7: Editing Thoughts |
goldenmike4393 |
11-05-09 |
126 |
| RE: Episode 7: Editing Thoughts |
Outfrontgirl |
11-06-09 |
129 |
| RE: Episode 7: Editing Thoughts |
Outfrontgirl |
11-06-09 |
128 |
| New editing thread post-merge |
Brownroach |
11-02-09 |
115 |
| RE: New editing thread post-merge |
Outfrontgirl |
11-02-09 |
117 |
| RE: New editing thread post-merge |
VerucaSalt |
11-05-09 |
127 |
| RE: New editing thread post-merge |
Outfrontgirl |
12-05-09 |
130 |
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michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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09-08-09, 08:56 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Samoa" |
LAST EDITED ON 09-08-09 AT 10:07 PM (EST)Hello Veruca, I hope you enjoyed your summer. I'd like to read your impressions on the players. Here are my first thoughts.
Robert Louis Stevenson's adventure novel, Treasure Island, was introduced during last season's finale as playing a part in Survivor Samoa. I don’t know if it will play a part in the editing of the characters but, the off-season being too long, I took a look at the story and its themes.
Treasure Island is a coming-of-age story, it is an adventure tale known for its superb atmosphere, character and action, and also a wry commentary on the ambiguity of morality. The book is narrated in the first person by Jim Hawkins so a narrator could play a big part in this season. After all, Jim did walk away with his share of the treasure. Themes and conflicts One of the principal conflicts in Treasure Island is between middle class virtue versus proletarian indiscipline…the principal heroes, stand for virtues such as loyalty, truthfulness, thrift, discipline, religious faith, and temperance. The pirates suffer from drunkenness, impiety, and mutual betrayal, and tend to seize immediate gratification on the premise that life is short and uncertain. Long John Silver occupies a middle ground in this conflict: he shares the middle class heroes' virtues of temperance, thrift, and deferred gratification, but is willing to lie, betray, and murder to achieve his ends. Truthfulness and loyalty: As in Survivor, this theme comes into play in the novel as seen in the development and coming-of-age of its narrator, Jim Hawkins. Jim's moral development culminates when he promises Silver not to attempt an escape, and then meets with Dr. Livesey at the edge of the stockade. Jim, fearing that he may divulge the Hispaniola's location under torture, tells Livesey where the ship is so that the doctor can move it away before the pirates can find it. Moved by the prospect of a youngster facing torture, Livesey tells Jim to escape with him. Jim refuses, saying "I passed my word," adhering to the middle class heroes' ethic of truthfulness even at the risk of an excruciating death. Several of the other heroes are remarkable for standing by their word. It is mainly lack of loyalty and truthfulness that distinguish Long John Silver from the heroes, who otherwise share many values with him. Silver is not only a chronic liar, but an extremely skilled and convincing one. Temperance versus drunkenness: A strong contrast is constantly drawn between the drunkenness of the pirates (except Silver) and the temperance of the heroes, especially Dr. Livesey I guess we won’t have a scene of our winner bent over drunk after a reward this time. Religion versus irreligion: The conflict of piety versus irreligion is mainly developed between Jim Hawkins and Israel Hands on the Hispaniola We’d have to see how this plays out but the possibility of conflict is present as seen by some castaways’ bios. Thrift versus profligacy: The conflict of thrift versus profligacy runs through much of the book. Most of the pirates are unable to hold on to their money. This could be used to portray negatively someone choosing the comfort of a reward instead of playing the game. How can all this play out? The novel's good and bad guys are clearly identified. Should we expect such caricatures in Samoa? Hopefully, the editing will be more subtle. Our winner would fit the themes of the novel if he or she is presented as a loyal player, maybe even a "Hero". If a liar, a schemer wins, that “villain” could be portrayed as Long John Silver, having virtues that the “ordinary” villains won’t have. With this in mind, these would be my preliminary observations: Jeff tells us that Marisa, Mike and Yasmin could be early boots so let’s leave it at that for now. There are 3 castaways, Dave, Shannon and John, that don’t receive any game talk from Jeff. His commentaries, whether positive or negative, are only on a personal level. From Veruca’s list of previous winners, we see that Jeff usually talks about the winner’s game. Even Aras had a game related question mark. Dave seems destined to have journey to prove himself. Could this smart man be our narrator? Shannon is someone Jeff likes but that's about it. She could be a victim of circumstances. “Privileged” John seems arrogant already and may have a problem with profligacy. Jeff’s game talk becomes more focused when he presents the others. Ashley, Natalie, Russell S., and Brett received mainly positive comments but Jeff doesn’t present them as possible winners. Kelly, Monica, Ben and Russell H. could be our main villains, the ones that could be used to make a disloyal player appear acceptable as our winner. Kelly and Monica are already labeled as “Femmes Fatales”. “Time Bomb” Ben could have a problem with temperance. I don’t think I need to add a thing about Russell. Jeff names 3 threats to win who appear to be on the “Hero’s” side: Betsy, Jaison, and Laura. There are also 3 cataways that Jeff calls good players. They are presented as schemers and liars. Therefore, they could be edited as the story’s Long John Silver: Liz, Mick and Erik. They would make interesting Pirates if they are to bring back the treasure. Don’t trust Liz, Erik will double-cross as soon as he has to and Mick could manipulate people. Will the heroes hear the warning? Enjoy the season! 
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Georjanna 1316 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson"
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09-18-09, 11:11 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Samoa" |
Michel, Thank you for the wonderful synopsis of Treasure Island. Shamefully, I've never read the classic. But, I did watch the TV Guide preview of Samoa ...  And in it, Jeff drew a comparison between Brett and Erik (of Micronesia) by wondering if, like Eric, Brett would become a victim of his Season's scheming females (Samoa's generic pirates?) or if he, unlike Eric, would be fully (and by inference, advantageously) aware of their intentions and capable of turning those tables. And that, coupled with Jeff's earlier comment that Brett's (by inference, calculated) reticence might bode well for him in the Game, his coming-of-age persona, and your observation - "The book is narrated in the first person by Jim Hawkins so a narrator could play a big part in this season. After all, Jim did walk away with his share of the treasure" - makes me wonder if, in Brett, we may have Samoa's - heroic - Jim Hawkins. Too, after watching the preview and reading your post, I think that Erik could well be Samoa's stringently disciplined but amoral Long John Silver. In the preview, he spoke with relish about wanting to be a con man ... from the age of six. But then, Russell H. is also a top contender for that juicy role: in the preview the two articulated the same basic strategy of sow - and reap the benefits of - hell and discontent. And Russell is also obviously admirably self-disciplined: he isn't doing time either. And although I don’t see Dave as a narrator – I think that he is much too self-important a personality to be suitably entertaining in the role – I do think that he is a “Journey” player. And I think that it is very possible that when it becomes apparent to Dave (sooner rather than later) that he is not going to be celebrated for the way he played the Game, he will opt for a memorable – Kathleen without the tears – Above-The-Game exit. Note from last night’s episode: I thought that Dave’s – close-up – incredulity in the face of Russell’s selection of Shambo as Galu’s ‘smartest’ member was priceless.
I know I said I wouldn't, but ...
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09-09-09, 00:34 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Samoa" |
Hi Veruca!
I hope your posting means you will be commenting this season. I sorely missed you at the end of last season.Question: I know that these Jeff quotes are from the interview he does circa beginning of game, but in the past he's also done a post-filming interview when he pretends he doesn't know how people did. Have you ever collected/listed those quotes? IIRC, the later interviews often made statements about who we would like, root for, hiss at. Those interviews seem to disappear when he started the blog. Another question: if he repeats the blog, are the blog comments considered kosher for repeating in this topic? They do "editorialize" and try to push us towards a certain vision of the season's theme. And what is the "editing thread" position on what used to be Insider clips, and are now a collection of video segments that didn't make the broadcast - but are chosen to give fans "insight" into the show. The way I see the concept, it started out as tidbits for subscribers, but at this point it's more a way of sharing more footage than they can put in a 45 minute broadcast. Granted it is not edited like "the show" but it IS screened to show what "they" want us to know about plans, alliances, relationships, and players' good, bad, and ridiculous qualities that make up the whole of that character. 
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09-10-09, 01:44 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Samoa" |
Veruca, I am sad if you won't be posting. I love your posts. Truly.I have no burning desire to push the parameters, not at all. I asked because I'm interested in how the topic defines editing relevant material at this point now that CBS has moved into adding so much internet content. And then this blog of Jeff's. It is hard to know when he is telling the truth, so it sort of like editing, but happening as a commentary on the broadcast. I have no problem sticking to the community rules, just wish to be clear on them. Re Treasure Island, I remain dubious because there is nothing on the promos other than HUGE and SECRETS with respect to theme. Treasure Island was a book I read several times as a child and found fascinating, but it's been decades. 4 or 5. I would enjoy seeing it used, but my gut feeling is when they do May promos, which are before filming, they are very preliminary as to the production and they look for a hook. Stephenson is the big author for Western Samoa, as Melville was for Marquesas, as Maugham might be for American Samoa, so it was easy to use as a hook, as was Cook and the Bounty for Cook Islands. Then the whole Bounty theme went south when they did race tribes, except for the Mutiny twist. I seem to remember Jeff starting right in with Eden for Gabon, but so far nothing from him on TI, so I'll wait and see. In the Fall Finale, they make a promo based on completed filming, and they really know something about the story they have to tell. In May, they know zip.
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09-18-09, 09:04 AM (EST)
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8. "Episode 1" |
I'm not going to do a blow by blow through the episode. I'll leave that to the pros here. I have a thing for the importance of first confessionals and the first episode in gneral. Bob and JT were both in the first batch. There weren't a lot this time. Brett, Shambo, Marisa, RussHell, and Betsy. Then a second group during the leader pick, which went Monica, Mick, Shambo (her 2nd), Ben, Russell S. Then to the first commercial, which I think can be a cut-off. However, when they came back and picked for the challenge, Jaison and Liz got confessionals. During the leader vote, I found it interesting who did NOT get a confessional with their thoughts on being nominated. There were five people who got votes from FoaFoa: Mick, Marisa, Russell H, Liz, Jaison. Only Mick got a confessional; Liz and Jaison got them when picked for the challenge, but those were about their strengths for the challenge and stereotypes (ethnic), not about being the leader. On Galu, the votes went to only three. Russell S and Shambo we heard from, but not Erik, and no Erik confessional when he got picked to be the strong guy. I think the only confessional from Erik was his complaint about John at the end of the challenge. This doesn't seeem to me to bode well for Erik's finish, considering how much Jeff liked his chances. Four people did not get even one confessional, all women, three from Galu - Laura, Kelly, and Yasmin, plus Natalie. Again, Jeff was so big on Laura's chances; I found it noticeable that she was not heard from at all. Kelly, Yasmin, Natalie, seemed about right. The fact that Monica was chosen for a sound byte about the danger of leadership interested me. It was her only confessional, but in a prominent place. In sum, we heard a fair amount from the two leaders, which was to be expected. We heard from Russell, also to be expected as he is the big villain. One girl who commented on him is already gone, and Betsy may have been given a similar confessional before she leaves sooner rather than later. The Galu opening confessionals, from Brett and Shambo, seem more promising. Anyone could have been found to comment on Shambo, and perhaps Brett's role was no more than to intro her, as the women were heard from to tell us about Russell. However, in the episode Brett played a very low key game, as Probst remarked in his first impressions, and I see no reason why Brett would be voted out any time soon - not in a tribe that has John and Dave to cut in the way of males, especially John, who is already on the boot radar. As for Shannon, I was really struck by how much attention she got. Probst had endorsed Liz, Laura, Betsy as the older women with a lot of potential game, yet it might be that Shannon is going to outshine Laura, and Betsy. (Liz still a dark horse.) She got two confessionals right up front and the opportunity to talk, once about her name, second about being chosen for "smartest." Her work on the first puzzle was shown to exceed expectations, and on the second puzzle she whipped it into shape. However, she did not fit in with the young people who were taking a break. This reminded me of Twila in Vanu`atu, where we had a very early scene of all the young women laughing and playing in the water, while all Twila wanted to do was to work. Twila somehow survived to F2, and if she could do it ... Shambo is a people person, whereas Twila was totally socially inept. I suppose there will be different takes on whether Shambo was sympathetic or not as she sat on the shore, but I noticed that we did not get any grumbling confessionals about her not coming in the water. In the shelter building sequence, Shambo mainly mocked John, and I believe from what Jeff said, and the confessionals from Dave and Erik - that anyone who mocks John Fincher is a sympathetic character. One thing puzzling me with all the Shambo confessionals in the Galu camp scene, was that in camp she sometimes had the purple headband, sometimes the buff. The confessionals she wore the buff. I guess at some point she switched to the buff, which she was wearing sitting on the beach, but I felt like the camp scene was shown as one sequence but it really wasn't. I also noticed that the two leaders were looked at very differently in the camp scenes. Mick reflected on Ben's pushiness and stepped back from the target. No one really talked about Mick as the leader. At Galu, Russell S was quite worried in confessional, and he was critiqued by Shambo - first positively, then as ineffective. Seemed to me that Mick was shown to handle the unasked for position with more smarts. My overall impression is that Russell H will be a huge character and somehow will survive having told several women that he's taking them each to F2. That's the big story at the moment, and characters are getting development to serve that story. Natalie was back burnered the most, and I would think she does not go too far. She ought to not make jury with no confessional in the whole episode. At the same time she doesn't seem in imminent danger. Betsy does. Ashley also, but she has a story arc already developing her as feisty. Mike is toast on the warmer burner, but right now he is a vote with Russell. Liz seems to be on the fringes but sticking with the majority. We have been shown that Liz's thoughts are very different from what her demeanor suggests, except for the assertive way that she announced her name. Liz has a story started. Her ethnic difference will be highlighted. Ben has been shown not afraid to open his big mouth and put people down very directly. I don't know that anyone likes Ben, but we are supposed to notice him as a "character." Like Ozzy or JT, he is at home in the environment, but he's not likable in the way he demonstrates his knowledge. Jaison seems to be in a good position to make merge, as he is very focused, and there are three men with a lot more alpha male going on, plus he can swim great and that's going to be a huge asset. He's the guy they want to take out the episode before the merge, but sometimes that can be tricky. Still, he did not get a confessional prior to the first commercial. This was not Galu's episode, so I think that it matters a lot whom we did get to know. Shambo was #1 in exposure, but was that simply to push an unusual character that Jeff thinks will be embraced by the "Mom" viewers? I think there's more to it. We also got to know Russell S's concerns, and to see the alpha male clash between John, Dave, Erik, with Brett on the side laying low. Other than Monica, the not-Shambo women of Galu were mute when it comes to inner thoughts. Laura, who is part-Hawaiian, could have been shown as an interesting woman, but she was almost invisible. Unless the editors are pulling a Tina edit, not looking good for Laura. Those who had early confessionals were, to repeat,
Galu: Brett, Shambo (2), Russell S, Monica.
Foa Foa: Russell H, Marisa, Betsy, Mick, Ben. Liz and Jaison after commercial.
One was booted first, and we may see that a couple early boots were showcased.
I think the winner should be in this group, and the biggest characters.
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09-18-09, 12:09 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Episode 1" |
Hello Veruca, so happy to see you starting up the thread...and I just don't know about your light bulb moment...I think your views and assessments go a long, long way all over the Survivor boards. Sure hope you reconsider! I have to say, I have been somewhat awol through the early pre-game assessments and have not had the time required to really feel like I got to know the characters before the first show. This season, I am struggling severely even with their names! At any rate, after one viewing of the show, I thought I too would comment on the first introduction segment of the show, as I think the winner would most likely be among them, but not necessarily with a confessional, but with a zoom in perhaps as well... Introduction with Jiffy and the beautiful scenic shots of Samoa...Deep in the heart of the South Pacific...Samoa...surrounded by ocean with a diverse marine life... cut to shots of the boats riding the surf with the daws...Jiffy continues...where these 20 Americans are beginning an adventure of a lifetime. While they have not spoken, first impressions are already forming... Zoom in on Brett...This lady with the ? mullet, she's probably some super outdoors woman who will naturally step forth as our leader.......as we see the camera pan on Shambo. Shambo...I'm a people ?magnet?. People have gravitated toward me my entire life, it's like Oh my God, this chick rocks, we love her! Cut to Marissa on the rocks, There's a guy who looks like he's tough as nails...he looks like a pitbull. I don't even want to mess with him, that's for sure! Russell: I plan on making it as miserable as possible, making it hell for everybody...to get what I want. Cut to Betsy: I couldn't really make out what she first said, but it was something about when I first came here I believed every single person I met, and now I don't believe anybody anymore....as the camera then moves from Betsey over to Natalie and then Laura... Jiffy: 20 strangers forced to work together while battling the elements and each other...see the camera then move to BEN when Jiffy talks about battling each other. "They must learn to adapt (as Russell S. is seen), or they'll be voted out(then the camera moves to Jaison). In the end(see John), only 1 will remain(see Shambo), to claim the million dollar prize(Liz is seen then Erik)... "39 days, 20 people, 1 survivor..." Okay, here are my first impressions...I think that indeed the winner is among either one of these confessionals, OR, an early zoom in shot. Brett has the first confessional and therefore can not be discounted...especially for making end game. AS I recall Erinn had the first confessional last season and she was the F3. But, Brett's confessional is of his first impression of Shambo, who then follows with a pretty impressive first confessional of her own...that she's one chick that rocks and people gravitate toward her. I'd say this is enough to make me think she just might make end game... Next confessional is regarding Marissa's first impression of the evil Russell, and we know that she is already toast. Betsey's confessional is also just after Russell's which associates/ties Betsey to Russell imo. Somehow Betsey should definately not trust either Natalie or Laura...as they are panned over when Betsey noted that now she doesn't trust anybody...I think so Natalie and Laura are not to be believed...
I do not think that they will be end players however, as they are panned over with a negative intonation. Ben is seen when Jiffy notes that they will have to battle the elements and each other...Ben is trouble, but I don't think he'll win, nor do I think the evil Russell will win...however, they both could be players that make the merge and beyond. Russell S. is seen when he says they must learn to adapt, and Jaison is seen when he finishes the sentence with or they'll be voted out. This makes me believe that Russell S. will learn to adapt, while Jaison will NOT. In the end (see John), only one will remain(see Shambo), to claim the million dollar prize(see Liz then Erik). So: I favor these players for end game and possible winners: Brett, Shambo, John, Betsy, Russell S, Liz and Erik. I do think Evil Russell will make it post merge and could go toward end game, but he will not win. I think Ben could make merge, but I think he will fall short as well. I recall that JT did NOT have a confessional in the intro segment, and that he was the last one seen before Jeff said, "39 days, 18 people, 1 survivor"...could Eric be the winner? Amazing that most of the ones highlighted and that I think will make end game are from GALU! Will evil Russell personally destroy his own tribe so that when they merge, the Foa Foa numbers will be much less? These are my FIRST IMPRESSIONS and as always I reserve the right to change my mind later...
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09-19-09, 01:31 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: Episode 1" |
LAST EDITED ON 09-19-09 AT 03:34 AM (EST)Wonderful assessment, FP!  I did note the zoom shots but didn't break them down, and I love that you did this. I am never sure whether to trust them with the shots they pair to Jiffy's stock line at the end. I seem to recall Marcus was there in Gabon. OTOH I'm almost sure Aras got that position in PEI. Too bad CBS doesn't keep all the episodes online. (This topic is a great resource.) I feel strongly that the two FC from Marisa and Betsy were to set up HIS story. Betsy is looking to be on the block soon (at least I think the writing's on the wall that she will cross Russ and lose). That would mean that only Russ, Shambo, and Brett would potentially go far. Therefore all three should be significant as CBS rarely wastes these prime intros. I love the idea that Betsy's confessional about not trusting might mean that the following shots are of people who can't be trusted, not just about Russell. I watched that part again and noticed that the next shot is of Ashley in the canoe. It lingers on her without zooming. Then a shot of the Galu canoe, then zooms on Natalie (definite threat to Betsy) and Laura (so far disconnected from Betsy, trustworthiness unknown). I would consider that Ashley had a moment there, even without a zoom. You said that JT did not get a first confessional, which is quite true going by the segment on the truck while Jiffy was doing his spiel. However, for my purposes I count the key confessional period a bit longer, and always counted him as having a key confessional, as did Stephen, on the trek. My cut-off point depends on my subjective sense of where the intro's are being done, and at what point the confessionals become game-oriented, or about the story arc of Episode one. I don't stop at Jeff's "One Survivor," but I do note the point where they go to first commercial, which is a bit later. Each season is different. Some have longer "arrival" scenes than others. In Tocantins they had a trek, and I felt the trek confessionals were important. (JT, Stephen, Taj among them.) In Gabon, I felt the winner would be in the first series before the pick'em, although I didn't discount the pickem. In Gabon there were more confessionals during Jiffy's opening speech than either Tocantins or this season. In Cook Islands I counted FC up to the point where the tribes landed in their canoes. (Confessionals one from each tribe, Yul, Ozzy, Sundra, Parvati, included 3 of the F4 and F6 person). In Fiji, the F4 were all featured in the first segment of life on the island. Earl and Dreamz went up the mountain, while Yau and Cassandra talked in camp.) I can't remember China now. This Samoa intro was very short, 5 confessionals, clearly not long enough to intro all the major players plus a few red herrings, although quite possibly could feature the winner. In my post above I also scrutinized the leader vote, which ended the first segment, going to commercial. The picking of RC players seemed important too. Once the challenge was done with, I felt that the focus shifted to "ep one story arc." As I noted, there were two opportunities to give Erik a confessional, one with a vote for leader, second as the strong man. We know that JP picked Erik as one of his A-list when the filming began. Yet Erik was ignored. Erik is so strong and scrappy that he will no doubt have the bullseye on him as the game becomes individual, so perhaps he is unable to overcome that. Liz got an unusual confessional, in that they let it go on so long that we heard the last part as voiceover while she walked to the challenge line-up. I think Liz may go far. Re Russell, I know we don't like to think it, but perhaps we should be open to him going all the way to F2. A final showdown that I would hope he loses, is not out of the question. He may be the best F2 goat ever.
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09-19-09, 01:06 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Episode 1" |
Hiya, OFG! I definately agree with you regarding significant first confessionals. You are absolutely right, the major players are most likely given a spot in the first show. I just wanted to do a quick impression with the very first intro segment, as it could be significant as well. It was fun to go back and read the comments from that very first segment from last season. I agree with alot of your impressions as well, you always bring so much to these boards, OFG! It's all so appreciated! I especially agree with you that there are indeed red herrings in the mix that I specified, for example, I do think that John is one. He got a zoom in, but I do think he is likely to not make mid-game. Betsey, indeed could be one, and placed there to highlight Evil Russell, but I hope not. I do worry though, that such a heavily laden group that received attention in the opening intro from one tribe, could possibly mean an early demise of the other tribe. Couple that with what we already have been beaten over the head with on Evil Russell and it has me worried. Clearly, with as strong as Russell is, he won't be going anywhere very early, and it seems he has a few allies. But, being the social game that it is, I just don't see him making it to very end game, as he would be threatening to win alot of the physical challenges. We never know, he could be used as a vehicle for the weak females to make it further in their game, should they align with strong Evil Russell?? We will see. I will comment on the other segments later this weekend! Thanks for the response!
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09-19-09, 07:40 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Episode 1" |
Thanks, OFG and FP for starting this. Here are my thoughts on episode #1. We can compare notes after.
With enormous waves crashing around him, Jeff launched the season by telling us that “first impressions are already forming.”
My first impression was that, much like those waves would, “This One Will Hurt” . The first 5 players giving confessionals weren’t identified.
Brett: “This lady with the mullet, she’s probably a super outdoors woman that will naturally set forth as our leader.” Shannon told us: “Dude, I’m a people magnet. People have gravitated to me my entire life. It’s like: “This chick rocks, we love her.” Marisa: “There’s a guy who looks as tough as nails. He looks like a pit-bull. I wouldn’t want to mess with him that’s for sure.” Russell: “I plan on making it as miserable as possible, making it hell for everybody to get what I want.” Betsy: “When I first started being a police officer, I believed every single person I met but now I don’t believe anybody, anymore.” That was an interesting use of anonymous confessionals. Brett and Marisa only served to introduce the two stars of the evening who each gave us a quick glimpse into their character. We know why Marisa was chosen and we can assume that the choice of Brett was only made because he spoke about Shambo the way the editors wanted us to see her. Brett, in himself, wasn’t important at all.
As an unexpected adjunct, we had Betsy’s confessional. She wasn’t essential to this episode’s story, she wasn’t used to present a star but she did present a theme: Honesty vs. Lies. To keep track of who was on screen as Jeff said his catchphrase; we had: “In the end (Shambo) only 1 will remain (Liz) to claim the million dollar prize (Erik).”
(Unfortunately, this has more often than not been meaningless.) When Jeff gave them directions to elect leaders, we had the first identified confessional: Monica: “It’s like, Haaa! Kind of like a deer in the headlights. Taking on a leadership role in a game like Survivor is like a death wish.” Mick, in interview, gave us some personal insight: “I do have leadership qualities. In the operating room, you have to make snap decisions. It takes more than a note from mom to get through med school and residency.” Putting parentheses for those still unnamed: Galu –
(Yasmin) voted Erik.
(John) voted Shannon who told us: “My nickname has been Shambo since 1986. I was in the United States Marine corps and Rambo had the same bandana I had. Everybody was like Shannon, Shambo, Rambo. That’s my game name and I came here to play.”
(Kelly, Brett and Laura) voted Russell S.
Russell voted Shambo.
Monica voted Shambo.
(Dave) voted for Russell
Erik voted for Russell who won the vote and stepped forward while Shambo voted for Erik. Foa Foa –
(Liz and Ben) voted Mick.
(Russell) voted for a smiling Marisa.
Mick voted for Jaison.
(Natalie) voted for Mick.
Jaison voted for Liz.
Marisa voted for Russell.
(Ashley and Betsy) voted for Jaison.
Mike voted for Mick. Ben had a confessional: “I wasn’t really surprised that I wasn’t written down as a leader. I don’t see anybody else who’s a country boy. I’ve shot and killed about everything that you’re allowed to in Missouri and probably a few things that you’re not. I’ve done all this stuff before and I think a lot of these people are candy asses (Marisa on screen, playing with her hair).”
This country boy will not be Mr. Nice Guy like JT! Russell S. reacted: “I’m scared. This leadership thing can go south real quick. The highest nail gets pounded down in this game and, right now, I’m like shy-high.” We had the first break so it seems that we should remember who has been named up to now:
Besides our evicted player, they were Monica, Mick, Erik, Shambo, Russell S. and H., Jaison, Liz and Ben. Of course, those only receiving votes can’t be considered as editing choices but, at least, it introduced them to us and that could have been judged to be enough for now. Most of those left unnamed had to have been so for a reason. Picked for the swimming leg, Jaison said: “Everybody assumes that a tall black man can’t swim. I didn’t think for a million years that Mick would pick me but I played water-polo through college and the national team. I’d like to think that I’m a pretty good swimmer.” John was picked for Galu but didn’t receive a confessional.
Russell and Erik were picked as the stronger guys.
Marisa and Yasmin were picked as the most agile, Jeff telling us Yasmin’s name, adding that she was wearing high heels.
Picked as the smartest Foa Foa member, Liz commented: “I think Mick chose me because I’m Asian. While I certainly don’t take offense at the positive attributes of being Asian because “they’re smart, they’re supposed to be studious” there’s also negative attributes like sneaky and conniving. I don’t want people associating the negative attributes to me.” As Russell picked Shambo as the smartest Galu, we saw Dave reacting in disbelief. She was also surprised and said so to the group. During the challenge, Probst said:
- Jaison pulling away from John.
- Mick feeling very good about his choice.
Mike had a confessional: “Jaison surprised me. African Americans aren’t known to be swimmers.”
Seeing John struggling, Dave commented: “John shanked that swim so bad, I was ready to vote him off right there.”
Probst also said:
- Russell having no problems with that first bundle.
- Erik trying to make some time…Adrenaline coursing through that body (Comments that were accompanied by his leader’s encouragements: “You got it, you got it. He’s tired. He’s out of shape.”)
- Russell having trouble with that second one.
- Erik not giving up.
Russell S in confessional: “Look at how Erik carried that weight. He made me so proud. He has the heart of a tiger.” Finally, Jeff let us know that “Liz has had a nice head start. Shambo is right in it. She was worried if she was going to be smart enough. Shambo is making a lot of time. Shambo is making up a ton of time for Galu.”
In the end it wasn’t really close but we still saw Shambo completing her statue and raising her arms. The intent was obviously to show that she is smart. Marisa told us: “We won because Mick made a very good choice on all legs.” We then saw John still lying on the beach trying to recover. Russell said he was proud of his team and that he wasn’t frustrated as we saw John again, practically dying. Jeff called them underdogs. As they were told to head off to camp, John was still sitting down.
That got a comment from Erik : “Pretty boy! Maybe you couldn’t swim but get you’re ass off the mat and stand up. Unbelievable! He doesn’t deserve to be here.” To the original group of 10, we’ve only added the names of 4 new players and it didn’t reflect too positively on either of them: Yasmin and her heels, John and his struggles, Dave and his snark, Mike and his prejudice. Foa Foa
Day 1 Betsy and Mike introduced themselves. Asked if anyone had rural experience, Ben said he was a hillbilly and had done this lots of times so he started giving directions on camp arrangement. Mick in confessional: “Ben’s an interesting chap… He shows up to camp and the guy’s like “All eyes to me!” The leadership thing is difficult and I’m still trying to sort out exactly how to run it. If he wants to step up and take control of things, you know what? Have at it my friend because he will paint his own target.” Russell revealed his strategy: “I didn’t come here to work, I came here to play. You’ve got to talk alliances as soon as you step on this island. So, my strategy is to be able to have a secret alliance with each one of these dumb girls. (Marisa, Ashley and Natalie shown weaving leaves for the shelter)…” He went to Natalie, Marisa (telling the latter that “The most important thing is honesty out here”) and Ashley. (He told her that they “could look back at this moment right now and say (they) did it from day 1.”) His confessional continued: “I got an alliance with the dumb short-haired blonde; I got an alliance with the dumber long-haired blonde and the dark-haired girl. I like to call it my dumbass girl alliance. I told them the exact same thing and I believe they are just gullible enough to believe it.” Russell used more caution with Betsy: “To make sure that I win this game, my 4th alliance is with the old lady. I know she’s a lot smarter than my dumbass girl alliance so I got to be real careful with that one.” Betsy, her name finally appearing on screen, told us: “As a police officer, I usually can get a pretty good read on somebody by talking to them, looking in their eyes, their body language. I just have a feeling that I don’t trust Russell because he came to me too quick in the game. I did make an alliance with him but I don’t trust him!”
Waves were seen crashing on the rocks as she spoke those words. Galu
Day 1 Russell S. had a confessional after arriving at camp: “I’ve been elected leader of the Galu tribe. It is a heavy, heavy liability. Who do you want to get when you don’t know who you want to get? Get the leader.” He gave his instructions which led to a confessional by Shambo: “When we first landed on the beach, I saw Russell, our tribe leader, begin to actually take charge. It was really cool. I felt like Yeah! We do have a leader.” Then, John started talking which led Shambo to tell Erik: “God! They’re still discussing it.” Her confessional went on: “My only problem right now, is we have some very strong male dominant personalities that aren’t hearing one and another. (John, Russell, Brett and Dave seen talking) They got all hung up on exactly what should be done, how, when, where.” John gave us his views: “In my life experience, a little bit of planning has taught me; don’t always be so quick to start spinning the wheels. This isn’t your typical construction job…You can’t deliver over budget because your budget is coconuts.”
He proposed a 5 minute break. Shambo (solo): “John is very much all talk no business. I think he’s an engineer or something. He’s too technical.”
Dismayed, she told the group: “I think we should act and quit thinking.” With that John said he was tired, Brett agreed and so the group all jumped in the water. With Monica, Yasmin, Laura, Kelly, Dave, Russell and Brett laughing in the ocean, we saw Shambo sitting on the beach and her confessional concluded: “These young kids. I didn’t want to go in the damn water. This is crazy because I have to constantly remind myself this is not Marine Corps… The way the tribe does things is going to be way different than the way I do things. (Brett, Yasmin, Monica and Kelly on screen) Russell as leader, I’m struggling with it. He’s not being assertive; he’s not leading right now. In my opinion, he needs to open a can of whoop-ass and lay some laws down. That’s what I would have done. That would have been my game plan.”
Foa Foa
Night 1: The Big Lie
RusHell told his Katrina story to the tribe only to tell us after: “I’ve never lived in New-Orleans, I’m not a fireman and I’ve never even had a German Sheppard.” Ashley (solo): “I’m such an animal lover so that was so hard for me to hear and, I don’t know, it kind of gets to you.” RusHell concluded: “It’s crazy how you can break their hearts by telling them a lie.” Marisa proved she wasn’t dumb: “Russell’s an interesting character. I really trusted him off the start but he’s really been scrambling with everyone. He’s trying to get people’s sympathy about Katrina. It was probably true and I don’t want to diminish that story but I just think he was angling at stuff. I’m starting to think he’s pretty slimy.” She didn’t know just how right she was because, besides being a liar, RusHell also proved to be a saboteur. “I figured I’d make it interesting for everybody when they wake up. I emptied all the water from all the canteens.” (But only after drinking his fill as seen on screen) “I plan on weeding out the weak right off the bat. I plan on making it as miserable as possible (Natalie is shown) for everybody… I feel that, if I can control how they feel, I can control how they think. I’m really a multi-millionaire, I own an oil company in Houston. I’m not here for the money; I’m only here to show people how easy it is to win this game. I’m the worst one to trust out here. I should be the first one to go but I’m going to do everything it takes to win this game.” Foa Foa
Day 2: The cameras lingered on the tribe flag and two of the key words: Outwit, Outplay.
Interestingly, Outlast was left out. It seemed a sign that RusHell’s plan will work out for a long time but fail at the very end. Ben and Liz were heard talking about their empty canteens.
Jaison told us: “I’m looking for my socks which I can’t seem to find. My feet are starting to hurt, I’m getting small blisters. I’d really like to find some socks and to be warm.”
Ben took over again about the chores which irritated Marisa. All this made RusHell’s day: “My strategy is working like a dream. They’re hollering at each other right now. I’ll just sit back and watch it happen. Right now, I think I’m running the whole show. They don’t even know it but I know I am.” The Immunity Challenge: Russell told he was among the best group of people he had ever met and that everyone was pulling their weight.
Ben responded by saying he hadn’t read the book “Things losers say” which made his tribe laugh.
Erik asked: “Can we start this Jeff? Cause I’m ready to open some cans of whoop-ass.”
The rivalry has already begun. Liz was shown when Jeff said that with “immunity in camp you cannot go home.”
(Side note: John learned something from Jaison as he did this challenge in his underwear rather than in jeans!)
Jeff’s comments:
- Galu over in one full swoop… Foa Foa falling quickly behind.
- Yasmin trying to get over for Galu, Russell coming down to help.
- Foa Foa working together to get over.
- Galu working together, building a human pyramid. Great strategy!
- Mick using his entire body to support Jaison.
- Russell grunting out. As they moved to the puzzle, the cameras concentrated first on Shambo and Marisa. We heard them giving directions; we saw them handling the pieces in close-ups. Later, we saw Laura giving directions for Galu and Liz when Jeff said Foa Foa seems lost
When Jeff said Galu thought they had it, it was Shambo again seen doing all the work and it was Shambo’s cheer we saw when Jeff declared the winners. As the “Galu is in the House!” dance went on, Ben’s disgust was shown first, followed by Mike and RussHell. Foa Foa
Day 3: Honesty doesn’t pay: Ashley (solo): Today at the challenge, we lost and that sucks. I don’t know whose fault it is. I feel that we all contributed. We have a lot to think about but I don’t want to be the one to bring it up because, then, I’m going to have a target on my back.” RussHell had a conference with Ashley, Natalie and Liz but no decisions were made.
Mike and Mick also talked and they agreed on Ashley.
Mike: I’m 62, I’m the oldest one out here. I do not want to be the first one out, you know. I’m talking to a few people (Mick, Jaison and Betsy shown) and saying that we should work on strength. There’s going to be a lot of challenges in front of us so I think we should vote off the weakest. I’m not the physically weakest.” With an inserted shot of Mick seemingly looking on, RussHell asked Marisa where they stood. She told him she was worried about seeing him talk to everyone. That signaled the end of the game for her.
RusHell: “How do you come to me and threaten me and telling me you are feeling uncomfortable? Are you kidding me? Marisa is the dumbest player I’ve ever seen. I’m running the show here. You come to me and threaten me, you’ve got to go and she’s gone.”
He went around collecting the votes, first with Jaison and Ashley, then with Betsy who couldn’t believe it. RusHell told her: “If you stay with me then you are going to be safe for a long time” He continued with Mike, Natalie and finally Ben who said “I can’t stand that b*tch.”
RusHell’s confessional concluded: “My tribe will believe everything that I tell them at any point because they’re just stupid. Mick’s the leader of the tribe but I’m the one in charge of the camp. You can call me the puppet master. They can be my little puppets. They’ll run when I tell them to run, they’ll walk when I tell them to walk. And, when I’m finished with them, I’ll throw them in the trash.” Betsy wasn’t being fooled as she told Natalie that her intuition was telling her not to trust RusHell. Tribal Council: The melody was quite sad, almost funereal as Foa Foa entered TC.
Ashley said it “was sad but that’s how the game works. It is what it is.”
RusHell didn’t know how to answer Jeff who said they may as well vote Ashley off if she didn’t care.
Mike told everyone they were wearing milkbone underwear.
Ashley didn’t regret her comment, saying that they did their best but were beaten.
Mike said Galu had been lucky with the puzzle but Jeff didn’t believe Borassi.
Liz said it wasn’t luck, that they could be more unified.
Betsy said Ashley was the weakest which drew a stare from RusHell.
Ashley found that entertaining because she claimed to be physically fit, cardio-wise.
Marisa told Jeff there were different levels of weakness which caused Ben to tell her to assert herself.
RusHell told Jeff that Ben and Marisa didn’t like each other, that he liked Ben and everyone except Marisa. Jeff found that surprising because he had voted for Marisa as leader. RusHell said she could be a leader because she is strong but she told him that she was worried about him talking to everyone.
Marisa said she was only being honest with him. She tried to plead her case but it was to no avail as the votes soon revealed. We saw Ben mimicking a gun to shoot her as Jeff said she was the first one out. We also saw Ben winking, supposedly at Ashley. Jeff wished that they had solved their dysfunction or else they’d be seeing a lot of him at Tribal Council. Interestingly, Mick and Betsy voted to eliminate Ashley but we never saw why Mick went against RusHell’s wishes or if he was even approached about the vote. The Tribes: Even if both tribes had elected leaders, neither leader asserted his role in camp. While Russell was blamed for being too lenient and Galu’s shelter never seemed to take shape, Mick had a better portrayal, saying he was learning the ropes of being leader and letting Ben do his thing to take the heat. The story of each camp showed another possible theme for the season by which we can analyze the players:Action vs. Talk. Let’s look at our characters: The Deckhands With a cast of 20 players, many were ignored during this premiere. Maybe 1 or 2 of them can advance in rank during the season but having no presence in the premiere does put a question mark on their future. More likely, none of these 6 players will have an impact on the season. Brett : He received the first confessional but it revealed nothing about his personality and he was then completely ignored. Contrary to Ben, we didn’t hear his comments about not receiving a vote or for not being picked to compete in the first challenge. Worse, he was shown as John’s follower in their shelter building fiasco. Laura and Kelly: They weren’t given a speaking role in this episode and they rarely were featured on screen. Laura was briefly shown giving directions during the last puzzle but most viewers probably couldn’t name her. Kelly was even less visible. Yasmin If she was a little more recognizable than her two fellow Galu female deckhands, it was only because of her role in the first challenge. If she is going to be more than a deckhand then we have to wonder if she won’t be relegated to the role of the “Dumb Player”, Jeff’s comment about her nice heels being the way to introduce that character. Natalie: For her, being only a deckhand could be even more troubling than it is for the Galu women. She went to TC but still didn’t receive a moment to present herself. She’s part of RusHell’s dumbass girls but at least she was always shown working when he told us about them. They could have shown her sunbathing or swimming in the ocean like the Galu women but, instead, she was always working on palm fronds. Not much, but it’s something. On the other hand, she was the one shown when RusHell exposed his plan of misery. Will she be able to handle it? Monica: She did get an introduction but her confessional revealed nothing about her personality or her game except that she plans to stay away from the leadership role. Her confessional seemed only to have been chosen because the editors liked the way she presented production’s idea to start the season. She was the one heard laughing the loudest when Shambo complained about the “young ones”. Monica needs to show a lot more before she can be considered for a bigger role, one that could impact the season. The Pirates These players received negative roles during the premiere, ranging from Dumb Players to dirty Scoundrels John: The typical dumb player, John did everything wrong in the premiere: He was the reason Galu lost reward and he bossed everybody around. We heard from Shambo why John should leave early: He is all talk and no Action. He made Galu waste a lot of time. Mike: How dumb is it for the oldest guy to plan on eliminating the weakest players? In other words, Mike went in the game only wanting to avoid being the first one voted out. But, even if he survived the first round, then his name will soon come up. His first confessional about Jaison showed that his social game will also be lacking. Dave: His negative edit was more subtle but we saw it first when he reacted strongly to Russell naming Shambo as the smartest person, then when he said he was ready to vote out John even if the guy had competed against a member of the water-polo national team and finally when he was included in the group of males that like to talk instead of act. Ben : He was shown as being bitter about the tribe’s votes, he imposed his views on the tribe, he argued with Marisa over chores, calling her a b*tch and, finally, he pretended shooting her at the end of TC. Ben is in a good position to go far in the game as RusHell’s puppet but he can’t win if the cameras continue to look for him when he’s angry or talking negatively about others. RusHell : The advertised “biggest villain ever” was off to a quick start and his plan did work perfectly. We didn’t only see his actions but also the reasoning behind them. The intent, I felt, was to have us think that his strategy will work to the merge. That is, if he can continue to create animosity between other players, if he can surround himself with his puppets and if those puppets don’t compare notes. But then what? He can’t win with that strategy… Or can he? The one thing missing about his strategy his how he plans to get the advantage over the other team. If we hear him talk about what he will do to win challenges, to demoralize the other team, we could be in for a long season in RusHell. Jeff said he couldn’t win but what if he goes up against one of his puppets? One player already paid the price for seeing through him. There’s another one who has expressed doubts but is she up to the wrath of RusHell? So, can he be stopped? It seems he will because we know it isn’t easy to win this game and you can’t just go there to play. There is hard work involved and he told us he isn’t there to work. As the flag shot told us, he could outwit and outplay most players but someone should outlast him.
But, what a story if he does make it!! The Sailors: These players received positive roles to differing degrees of importance. Some will be victims of the villains, some will have nice journeys and one of them could be our winner. Jaison : His role was mainly due to his selection for the first challenge but he did get 2 confessionals during the episode. We got to know Jaison and I assume most viewers liked him. That’s how the editors create victims; players you don’t want to see voted out but you know they don’t have a chance. We already saw him being the victim of RusHell’s dirty tricks so he could be set up for an early elimination. Or being cold and uncomfortable could lead to health issues. Jeff did talk about medical evacuations due to the weather so maybe that was our first clue to the identity of one evacuated player. Ashley : She seemed to be RusHell’s favorite puppet. She was the one chosen to show that the Katrina story was swallowed hook, line and sinker. Did you see the stare that RusHell gave Betsy when she dared call Ashley weak? For Ashley, RusHell’s strategy paid early dividends. To win, she will have to show us that she isn’t a dumbass girl. She would have to see through RusHell’s lies and avoid getting thrown in the trash when he doesn’t need her anymore. Did we see anything that indicates she can? It wasn’t much but we didn’t hear anything negative about her challenge performance and we saw her working when RusHell called her dumb which somewhat contradicted his statement. Russel S. : Another nice guy who seems to be in over his head. He told us he didn’t know what to do about the target he sees on his back and we heard that he doesn’t have what it takes to lay down the law.
Liz : Her role was very limited but she was more than just a deckhand. She was introduced to the audience early on even if it was only for receiving a leadership vote and she did get a confessional that presented some self-awareness. She also presented Foa Foa’s dysfunction during TC, saying they weren’t unified. Her confessional about stereotypes leaves me perplexed: Was it to show that she is simply there to disprove those negative stereotypes or was it to show that someone could win without being sneaky and conniving? Even if we saw her with RusHell, Natalie and Ashley during the pre-TC strategy discussion and voted against Marisa, we didn’t see her accepting RusHell’s orders. She wasn’t presented as one of his puppets but she didn’t reveal herself as an opponent to the villain yet.
Betsy : A lot was invested in Betsy to act as a counter-weight to RusHell’s evilness. It seems that she only succeeded in making him worry about her. From the start, he called her dangerous and then she went directly against him at Tribal Council. She was told to vote Marisa, she was assured she’d last a long time if she stuck with him, yet, not only did she go her own way, she told someone she didn’t trust RusHell. It seems her story can only go one of two ways: She’s the next victim or she outlasts him. Erik : This player didn’t shy away from confrontation and he did react to John with strong words. So, how is he different from Dave? Erik reacted to provocation from Ben while Dave reacted to Shambo’s nomination as smart player. Also, Erik criticized John’s attitude after the challenge which the camera underlined. Erik, himself, had suffered during that challenge and he didn’t stay down on the mat. In fact, Erik received praise from Russell for his great heart. He was in a position to talk. Dave criticized John’s challenge performance but he didn’t show he could do better.
Mainly, Erik was with Shambo when she expressed her frustration about the tribe’s work and he wasn’t seen swimming with the group when they wasted valuable time. There seems to be, if not an alliance, at least an understanding between Erik and Galu’s star. Mick : Here is a player that was nicely introduced early on with a confessional that contained both personal insight and game strategy. Compared to other leaders, Mick didn’t show arrogance about his position, he told us he had much to learn and accepted suggestions from someone who was willing to give them. Most importantly, Mick wasn’t shown as one of RusHell’s puppets and the camera showed him spying on the villain. The vote showed him out of the loop and voting against RusHell’s favorite so he’ll have a tough battle ahead. Shambo : In an episode that was advertised as “All-RusHell-All-the-Time”, Shambo received a huge story arc. Her isolation from Galu and her opposition to its leader portrayed her as the second Kathy O’Brien. Presenting herself as an ex-marine tells us that she has the tools to survive anything out there. We were told that she was a people-magnet so she has the social game to go far and we were continually shown that she has what it takes to win challenges. That image of her finishing the puzzle even if her team had lost seemed like an important clue to see that the editors want us to like her. Many people liked Kathy O but it didn’t end well. Can Shambo do better? Time will tell. Between her talk about “some very strong male dominant personalities” and RusHell thinking that he’s playing with dumbass girls, could we have a woman winning this season?
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Belle Book 3613 desperate attention whore postings
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09-20-09, 12:10 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: Episode 1" |
*It seems her story can only go one of two ways: She’s the next victim or she outlasts him.*Much as I'd like to hope that Betsy outlasts Russell H., I'm afraid she'll be his next victim. I think Shambo will be a character much like Rupert -- she'll make the jury but not win. I don't know about Liz's worries about stereotypes either. We'll just have to wait and see if her story's a winning one or not. I hope it is. 
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michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings
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09-21-09, 12:51 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: Episode 1" |
"Much as I'd like to hope that Betsy outlasts Russell H., I'm afraid she'll be his next victim."I'm also afraid of that but I have some hope: Remember, I was fascinated by the camera shot of Foa Foa's flag shown after RussHell's mission of destruction. We first see:  Then: 
followed by this: 
Betsy saying that there is no more water.
Is it meant to show that Betsy will Outlast? If she isn't the next victim, then...
Thanks to Werwanderflugen for the vidcaps
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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
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09-21-09, 01:38 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: Episode 1" |
LAST EDITED ON 09-21-09 AT 01:40 PM (EST)Great post. I would only add that the relationship between Ben and Russ H., the two FoaFoa bullies, may prove interesting in how things play in future episodes. Ben is overtly pushy and dominant, Russ H. is covertly manipulative and reactive, and trying to be socially dominant. Russ H. was somehow able to turn Marisa's "confrontation" with him into making her a boot of opportunity even though it was only the two of them talking, and if he were as smart as he thinks himself he could have given her a reasonable and even truthful answer and set her at ease. But being truthful isn't his nature, being mean is. Russ H. was also pretty dismissive of Mike when intructing Mike to vote off Marisa, it was pretty much "vote with us or else." So, Russ H. has a gameplan, mean and dirty as it happens to be. Conversely, Ben seems to have no gameplan, he's just being assertive and dominant regardless of the negative reactions he gets for it. This makes him the perfect dupe for Russ H. who is depending on fooling everyone, Russ H. will keep Ben on a long leash and let him be the object of negativity for awhile, but he will have no problem throwing Ben under the bus when the time comes.
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CTgirl 8013 desperate attention whore postings
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09-23-09, 11:43 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: Episode 1" |
I'm a little late to the party, but let me say great first impressions OFG, FloPo, michel and Dabo! You’ve covered a lot of what I thought too. Obviously Russell B will be a big character, and Ben, Mick, Ashley and Russell S. will all have stories and some longevity, but you all have covered that, along with Marissa and Betsy. These were my first impressions and the things that stayed with me after I watched the show the first time and taking no notes. It's just a few moments and some editing quirks that shouted out to me:I found it interesting that Brett was chosen for the first confessional of the show about Shambo and then we didn’t see him again. The story was all about Foa Foa, but I felt the editors wanted us to remember him. Since he spoke about Shambo and we learned about her at length, it made me think that he becomes a part of her story. He will have some longevity in the game thanks to her. Some of the “moments” caught my attention because the editing was rather jerky instead of being seamless. I remember Monica because they stuck in a confessional about leadership being a death wish. I felt like TPTB wanted me to remember her so they had to stick her in somewhere early on. Liz, Mike and Jaison all spoke about ethnicity and race during the first impressions segment. This topic seemed a little forced to me which makes me think that race becomes an issue this season and will be a part of someone’s story arc (Liz maybe). Dave, Erik and Shambo all totally dissed John. In an episode that had to introduce as many of the 20 as possible, that seemed like overkill (and John will have no longevity!). The last moment that was underscored to me was when Betsy told Natalie that she doesn’t trust RussHell and then backpedaled and just called it woman’s intuition. This could have meant only that Betsy sees through RussHell before the rest do and is targeted for it. But maybe it also is foreshadowing down the road that RusHell will get rid of Natalie when it’s expedient to do so. She gets blindsided by him because she trusted him and didn't listen to Betsy. One last comment: IIRC, in pre-game interviews in Gabon and Tocantins Jeff said that we would like the winner. Most people were happy with Bob and J.T. winning. He didn’t say anything like that this time around. That doesn’t discount Shambo or Jaison (the two I found most likeable during the premiere) or RusSWell winning, but it seems to point that the winner at least does some things that aren’t that likeable (i.e. Ashley aligning with RussHell and who knows what at Galu).
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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09-24-09, 01:40 AM (EST)
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20. "RE: Episode 1" |
LAST EDITED ON 09-24-09 AT 01:45 AM (EST)CTgirl, I am so glad to see you and michel, Georjanna, Belle, and dabo are at the party.
I agree 100% about the jerky moments. Monica was stuck in there out of the blue, when a quote from Erik would have made a lot more sense. I too think Brett could have a story with Shambo. First confessional shouldn't be given to a non-entity. I don't doubt they had a quote from each player on Shambo, but they chose his. Do I think he will win? No, but I think he might have a decent story that will be told down the line. Jeff said of him: Brett's a bit of a dark horse. He's kind of hanging back with a cheery smile and "I just wanna do whatever I can to help out and play hard at challenges." But there's another side to Brett. He's done a good job of not revealing a lot. He could bode very well in this game. (I had to chuckle at that sentence) Typically, the less you show, the better off you are. Brett hasn't shown a whole lot yet. With a dark horse intro from Jeff, it doesn't surprise me that Brett was not featured. He's holding back and being pleasant, and that kind of story can wait until it comes time for the person to enter the spotlight. With a big cast, and a big villain, they have a lot to set up in a one hour premiere. The episode had a big story in its own right. They could not afford to take time to develop people who didn't really come into the first episode. But they could give them a confessional just to give them a first episode presence. Re what you said about Jeff, I'm so glad you mentioned that. I think Jeff is pretty clearly saying this season playing the game is the thing, not being nice. (Now JT DID play the game, remarkably well, and admitted he is not as nice as he makes people think he is, but he got no flack during the game.) Ashley will be a player and I do expect her to get her hands dirty if she goes far.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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09-24-09, 02:16 AM (EST)
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21. "Episode 1 addendum: Russell" |
This will hurt to read but I have to say it.Russell Hantz could conceivably get to end game or even win. So let's not discount him. Let's see:
He had a first confessional and was commented on. He got a vote as leader and got face time during the pick. He was selected for the challenge and acquitted himself flawlessly (as did Jaison). He then stated that he plans to win the game. No one else that I can recall said "Im winning this thing." Of course it all seems very ironic because he says it right after he sabotages his tribe. It also seemed impossible that Richard Hatch would win.
Is Russell as smart as Hatch or Brian Heidik in the ways of manipulation? No, I don't think he has any of their finesse, nor does he show the ability to think a lot of moves in advance, at least not yet. He is horribly cocky, but so were Dicque and Brian.
I'm just saying, let's not ignore his edit just because he's VILE.
I mean, the editors have to work with what they've got. If an A-hole wins, that's the story. Or, let me put it this way, if Russell did win, against all odds, how would you edit Episode One differently? Can you soften this guy's character? I don't think it would help. He is what he is. I realize that FoaFoa is losing challenges right now, which would seem to lead to that tribe's early demise. However, I feel that several FoaFoa have "legs" in the game: Russell, Ashley, Ben, Mick, Jaison, Liz, and even perhaps Natalie. On Galu, I felt that Shambo has got a big story. Maybe Brett and Monica, due to confessionals. Yasmin, Laura, Kelly, John, Dave, not really. Russell S-MAYBE, but already we see him awfully worried about his fate, and it seems like the leader title could do him in as he fears so much that it will. Erik is almost certain to make merge, if there's no swap, due to his abilities. However, it still troubles me that a player with big potential like Erik was both up for leader and picked for an RC segment, yet no confessional other than the one dissing John. That was a good sound byte and no wonder the editors kept it. I feel that Erik could be the guy who merges with the big target on his back and doesn't win immunity. I just have a feeling that FoaFoa will keep its very strong competitive players and will find a way to start winning. I feel that Mick will be around for awhile, and Mick is already a minority on his alliance, so I don't see him making merge unless his tribe turns it around. Perhaps after they lose Mike. Liz has the ability to kick ass with puzzle segments, and I don't think she will be on the shortlist for the boot because so many challenges have a puzzle component at the end. Anyhow, sorry for the long post. I probably lost you at "Russell could win." 
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Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings
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09-24-09, 11:13 AM (EST)
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22. "RE: Episode 1 addendum: Russell" |
LAST EDITED ON 09-24-09 AT 11:50 AM (EST)GREAT topic to discuss, because as you have astutely noted, we have all skirted right around RussHell because he's portrayed as so evil, "the most evil survivor of all time". We all discount that the villain could win. But, before I attack the Russell issue, I just want to add a few things regarding the first show. I wanted to post my first impression, which I still think is within that initial segment, which I'm betting contains the winner. I went back and rewatched it and I have a few other comments. As Betsey says that when she started as a police officer, she trusted everybody, (Ashley is then seen as it pans back to Betsey), but now she doesn't trust anybody, then we get a shot of Natalie and then Laura. So, I think that Betsey may have first believed Ashley, but then will not. Everything else remains as noted. I then went on to remark on the segment right after the intro, but before the first commercial. I won't discount the ones that were included with first confessionals prior to the first commercial, those being Monica, Mick, Ben, and Russell S. Of those, I have already noted Russell S and Ben. So that leaves Mick and Monica. I do think their confessionals are note worthy and as michel had pointed out, Mick's was a positive one, regarding his own leadership skills. He could be a noteworthy player, yet, as he wasn't noted in the initial segment, I don't think he will make it to the very end. After Jeff notes, "39 days, 20 people, 1 survivor, we see them paddling to shore, interesting close up shot of Eric with Shambo in the background. Then they arrive on their mats, "Welcome to Samoa, and now it's time for your first tribe decision", zoom in on Kelly. "You are going to elect a leader for your tribe", see zoom in on Shambo but pans to Eric, then we immediately see Betsey nodding. "Where the leaders are held in high esteem", see Natalie, "to protect the interests of their tribe", see Jaison, then Brett. So, with this segment, camera zooms to Shambo, then pans to Eric. They appear AGAIN, prior to the arrival on shore, and again as Jeff talks about leaders for the tribes....clearly, for me, Shambo and Eric are closely associated and I think that while Russell S. was chosen as the leader, Eric and Shambo will play more important roles in this series. Interesting to note that Betsey was shown following Shambo and Eric again while Jeff was talking about the leaders. She will be a leader on her tribe as well...She has received more face time, in addition to the initial segment, thus, I think she is an important character and one that will indeed last past episode number two. I would be shocked to see her go so abruptly with such a positive intro....if she were to go, would the editors having liked her so much, have given her that much face time in the intro? I don't think so. Jaison and Brett could be counterparts in different tribes, but of the two, I would bet that Brett will outlast, as he had the first confessional of the show. "Who looks like they could lead your tribe?", cut to Monica and the confessional about the leadership role is a deathwish, and then we immediately see Betsey, then cut to Mick, who has a confessional about his leadership skills in the OR. AGAIN, Betsey is SEEN when leaders are discussed. While Mick will be the leader on the Foa Foa tribe, it may be Betsey who is the real leader, but, as Monica notes, will it lead to hers and Mick's demise? More than likely I would guess. Then we get the confessional from Ben regarding his not being picked....he was introduced to us with a first confessional, and thus could last a while. Note, there was NO siting or zoom in of RussHell, other than he received one vote, interestingly from Marissa, and he voted for her. I still stick with my initial assessment. I think at this point the characters with the most substance will be Eric, Shambo, and Betsey and most likely they will be end game players. Other players that could make the end game include Brett, Russell S., Ben, Russell H., and maybe, Liz(ETA: Most likely I think that Liz could be one of the red herrings in the initial segment, as John is as well). Mid-game players may include Jaison, Mick, Natalie, Laura, Monica, Kelly. I will admit that Russell H is quite perplexing. Yes, he did get a confessional and he was talked about by someone else, and he did well in the challenge. But, Ace was built up very big in Africa and Tyson was built up in Tocantins, even had Erinn give the first confessional about him, and he was the athlete that stood to be the biggest challenge hog. Also, look what his confessional was..."I plan on making it as miserable as possible, making it HELL for everybody, to get what I want." To me, this confessional was doctored by the editors. The "to get what I want" was chopped from something else and added to this confessional. So his confessional was manipulated, imo. Clearly, Marissa that preceeded him was put there so that evil Russell could get the credit for her demise, I think Betsey was added at the end, as she will lead to the demise of RussHell. (At least I don't think she will succomb to the evil RussHell.) Regarding RussHell's million dollar quote, he also told us that he did not come to play the game for the money, as he was already a millionaire oil man and he didn't need it, but yet he wanted to prove that it was easy to get all of the others to do as he wished...blah, blah, blah. And, what do we make of the fact that all of the promos leading to Survivor were about RussHell, the most evil survivor of all time, and then the show featured him with 15 confessionals, and the promos for episode 2 are still ALL about RussHell. They are milking him for all that he is worth, because in my mind, he is the CHARACTER for the season. As the character, he will not win the game, imo. I would be surprised if he indeed lasted to the very end game as well. Obviously, he seems to be the "story" of this season, and that has me perplexed. It is also a story of the leaders, the chosen leaders(Russell S. and Mick) as well as the behind the scenes leaders(Shambo, Betsey), and maybe even the "wannabe" leaders(Ben). Remember what the John Nash theory states, in a season FULL of leaders, a follower will win...will a follower win this season? (Maybe Liz, maybe Eric???) Just food for thought. I just find it hard to believe that all of this hype for RussHell could end up as him as the winner...I think it is all advertising, the bigger the character, the more evil the character, the juicier the boot. Just my 2 cents...
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Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings
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09-24-09, 12:11 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: Episode 1 addendum: Russell" |
Great points, as always CTGirl! You are most definately a wise woman, and you always make great assessments. Regarding narrators, good point...for Galu I think so far Shambo and Russell have commented the most. We have heard nothing from Laura, Kelly, Dave, or Yasmin. We did get a bit from Eric, Monica, John, and Brett. At Foa Foa I would say that Russell H, having had 15 confessionals is way out in front. But, he's really not narrating, he's just talking about himself and his diabolical game strategy. But, otoh, since the show seems to be all about RussHell, he is narrating....
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michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings
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09-24-09, 06:52 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: Episode 1 addendum: Russell" |
LAST EDITED ON 09-24-09 AT 06:54 PM (EST)I want to add that I didn't eliminate RussHell from contention. As I wrote: What a story it will make if he wins. The possiblity is there, small but there. Brett and Monica really didn't sound like impact players to me. Yes, Brett had the opening confessional but it was about someone else, someone who ignored him in return. Monica was soon forgotten. As for narrator, I'd say Ashley has to be considered for Foa Foa. Both her confessionals were used to show how the tribe felt: The reaction to the Katrina story and the reaction to the tribe loss. Jaison could also take over those duties but all his confessionals were about himself. Shambo, although a lot was about her, was the one that talked most about Galu's dynamics. We'll have to see if these two women grow into that role.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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09-24-09, 07:05 PM (EST)
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26. "RE: Episode 1 addendum: Russell" |
Wonderful analysis, both of you.
If Betsy survives tonight I'll likely to be ready to come over to your side that she'll be a strong character.My reservation with her is that she is already opposing RussHell, and it's hard to envision them co-existing until the merge (unless there's a swap). If she had played along with him, I could definitely see her making it and I would LOVE to see her blindside him. But she is playing such an honest game on a tribe where that's not the MO. I'd like to say something about Liz. Liz may go home tonight so this may not matter. Everyone seems to be taking her comment as being defensive about Asian stereotyping. My take was a bit different. I thought she didn't want to be pigeonholed as sneaky etc. because she does plan to play sneaky. In other words, it will hurt her devious game if people don't buy into her niceness because they are stereotyping her. This take would actually work if in spite of her efforts to appear not sneaky she gets the boot tonight for her suspicious activities. Re RussHell, the thing is that Jeff awarded him "biggest villain of all time" status, and that means beating Hatch, Brian Heidik, Mariano (who I think is a nice guy IRL and just an entertainer), and Johnny Fairplay. Not sure who else is on the list. Of those, two were winners, Mariano made F2, JFP made F3. It would seem to me that any villain who fails to make the merge is not remotely in their class. If RussHell fails, he is just a lout who made big mistakes thinking he was so smart. To make biggest villain he must succeed longer than one would expect. That's how I see it. If Coach hadn't made F5, I think he too would have been a blip like Ace. Against all odds, no one got rid of the guy for a very long time.
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Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings
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09-25-09, 08:28 AM (EST)
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27. "ARRRGGHHHH" |
This is exactly why we need Veruca's 2 cents around here. This season is a stumper. Clearly, I do not understand all of what I thought to be a positive edit for Betsey in the first segments of the show which led us to an insignificant 2nd boot? Clearly, is all of the editing to favor RussHell? Is his story the story of the season? I sure hope it is not, as if it is, I am not long for the show of Survivor....I really SVCK at this! So sorry!
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redbeard103152 466 desperate attention whore postings
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09-26-09, 05:54 AM (EST)
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29. "RE: ARRRGGHHHH" |
This season so far more than any other in my memory seems to be a "what you see is what you get season".The obvious and what we are being hit over the head with seem to be more fact than misdirection For me until something happens to change my mind I will watch this season in" it is what it is" mode rather than looking for the misdirection mode.
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michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings
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09-26-09, 05:52 PM (EST)
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30. "Episode #2: Editing Thoughts:" |
In the recap, Jeff told us that Galu had a communications breakdown, endorsing Shambo’s story by showing her talking about the men not hearing each other.Jeff then told us about Foa Foa’s major problem by spelling it out R-u-s-s-e-l-l and that his plan is to perpetrate every dirty trick in the book in order to win: He sabotaged his camp to make life miserable, he made a series of secret alliances, he constantly lied. Marisa was described as his fall guy and a sacrificial lamb because she became suspicious. Jeff said that “not everybody was on board with his scheme” showing Betsy and adding that Betsy targeted Ashley as the weakest player. Mick’s dissidence was completely ignored. Betsy was left alone to “figure out where Russell would strike next.” This episode was about Confrontations Foa Foa
Day 4 RussHell had the first confessional: “Tribal Council was…I liked it, it was fun because Marisa is gone for no other reason but me. If you play with fire, you’re going to get burned (Just then Ben was shown in front of a cloud of smoke so I thought that it meant he’d get burned but subtleties are rare this season). RussHell went on: “I’m excited that Marisa’s gone. I don’t have to worry about her strong mind. She’s a strong woman. You can’t have that out here.”
Right then, Liz was shown screaming after being startled by a loud noise.
(It seems that RussHell and Burnett think alike about strong women.) Betsy and RussHell had their first confrontation, agreeing not to trust each other but to continue talking. Betsy: “I feel fine that I voted for Ashley last night, I have no regrets. Russ felt very threatened by Marisa. He didn’t like her, she spoke her mind. I’m not afraid to stand up to him at all. He knows where I’m coming from; he knows I have no faith in him. I used to but not after getting to know him.”
Galu
Day 4 “Funky” Jasmin told us: “Last night was horrible… I didn’t know it was going to be this hard. I was shaking, I was cold, I was nauseated… All I know it was not good…The hood is not the woods.”
That was all we were going to get from Galu for now. It doesn’t bode well for them that we only heard from the same player who would get so much attention later. Foa Foa
Day 4 In camp, Ben caught a lizard. Outside of camp, Jaison told RussHell that he was “shocked by how aggressive” they were with Marisa at the previous council. RussHell explained his actions and told Jaison he trusted him more than he trusted Ben. Jaison’s “Do you?” response showed he had his doubts. RussHell: “I think Jaison is the perfect guy to bring with you because he is so calm and collected. He’s an honest guy, he’s playing the game, playing the challenges hard. He’s quiet but he’s likable. You can’t do this alone, you got to have somebody so, if Jaison is the person that I can trust, then this is going to be real good.” RussHell told Jaison about his plan to find the idol even if they didn’t have clues. Jaison: “Russell really wants to find this immunity idol. We don’t even know if there is one. I guess he’s launching a pre-emptive strike on figuring out where that thing would be.” RussHell: “If I can find that idol then that would be GENIUS. In the history of Survivor; how many people found an idol without any clues? Zero!”
The tree with the huge hole in the middle of camp seemed like a clue in itself.
With harmonica playing in the background to underline how everyone wasn’t paying enough attention to him, RussHell looked in the tree. His confessional continued: “These people are so ignorant. Everybody is standing in the same spot. I’m looking in a tree and I don’t want to look suspicious… I looked up; I almost passed out… I yanked it down, got it loose and put it in my underwear, turned around and just walked off. The wonderful immunity idol!
He told Jaison about his find, showing him the idol and the parchment. Note that during this whole search in camp, Mike was nowhere to be seen and Ben even had some war paint on already in the first shot after Jaison’s confessional. Russell probably found the idol AFTER Yasmin arrived in camp. So, we can suppose that he read the clue she was given. If so, it’s very revealing that the story wants us to see Russell as a genius. Jaison: “I’m excited we have it. It’s definitely a tool we can use. I’m not sure how I feel that he has control of it and not me. At this point, I think that I can trust Russell a lot more.”
They reaffirmed their deal. RussHell: “My strategy from the beginning was that, if I found the immunity idol, I wouldn’t tell anybody but I wanted Jaison to trust me. So, I showed him I have it and told him: See you can trust me. I don’t have plans to give it to him. I just want him to think that I will if he needs it.” Foa Foa
Day 5 Betsy and Mike went to get tree mail.
Maybe an opportunity to show the two eliminated players together was too good to pass up but another chance to show Galu was disregarded. Mike : “Betsy’s paranoid. We’re the two older ones…I want to show them today that I’m not the weakest…” RussHell was telling Ashley that they had to win the next challenges.
Ashley answered that, if they lose, it would either be Betsy or the one failing in the challenge that would go.
RussHell agreed that the next two would be easy. Liz had a confessional: “The debate about voting people out is between Mike and Betsy and the more I thought about it, the more I thought it would be smarter to vote Mike off. He can’t compete physically. God forbid; if we lose the next immunity, Mike’s the one to go.” Probably already getting the blood pressure going, Mike told us he was waiting for this. The press images that were released to promote this episode told us this challenge lasted well over 2 hours, certainly more than his heart could take. Luckily, his final words before the challenge: “Or I’ll die trying” weren’t his last words period. The Challenge: Schmergenbrawl Monica was shocked to see that Marisa had been voted out. Probably she realized that Marisa was her counterpart in Foa Foa so that she could have been first if she had been placed on the other tribe. As he showed the fishing gear, Jeff said: “If you can’t catch fish with this: Go Home!”
I told myself that those words would be fatal to anyone shown not catching fish. With Russell pointing to her, Monica told Jeff she was sitting out. Liz scored for Foa Foa but Galu replied with a goal from John. Being in Samoa and having a similar haircut, Shambo probably thought she could do like Troy Polamalu so she destroyed Liz by going full speed at her and putting an elbow to her head. Watch on replay if you have it: Even in Football, it’s completely illegal but often quite effective. That hit prompted Jeff to give them a warning which led to Ben being thrown out of the challenge when he tripped Russell. Forgetting all about Robb Zbacnick in episode #3 of Thailand, Jeff said that it was the first time someone had been pulled out of a challenge The next two rounds went to Galu, Erik and Laura scoring, giving them immunity. After the challenge Ben showed he was proud of being an outlaw.
Russell chose Yasmin to go to Foa Foa, either because he trusts her or he wanted her out of his camp for a while! Medical Evacuation Knowing that Mike had already been pulled out just before Tocantins started, I wonder if he was allowed to play this time only because there was a doctor in his camp. Ashley, reaffirming her role as narrator for Foa Foa, told us: “During the challenge, Mike took some really hard hits. He was very out of breath… I don’t know; he didn’t seem right to me. That’s huge, especially right now if we continue losing, we’re going to be dwindled to nothing and then we’re going to get kicked out one by one.”
(Maybe even 2 by 2) Liz also had a confessional: “When we were done with the challenge, Mike had trouble breathing. When medical checked him out, he was suffering from very low blood pressure.” Mick, the doctor, gave us his opinion: “As a physician myself, you always have to consider the worst case scenario and, in Mike’s case, it’s probably a big heart attack.” After they said goodbye to Mike, Mick’s confessional went on: “I was privy to the conversation that Mike had with the physician there and I think she absolutely made the right decision. With Mike gone and Marisa gone and another tribal council, you know, I’d like to say we can push though this but it doesn’t bode well for us.” Galu
Day 5 Monica explained the tribe’s mood in a confessional: “Shambo insisted that spear fishing was her thing. Awesome! She’s bringing back fish for sure.”
Well…
Shambo: “This is the first bath I’ve had in 5 days so, even if it’s a swamp, it’s awesome. I didn’t catch any fish.” Hearing Shambo’s news, Laura had her first confessional of the season: “The good news is? You’re never going to believe it! There’s fish in the ocean! I feel sorry for her in one sense because she’s kind of desperate right now, trying to catch fish and, on top of not catching the fish, she losses our stuff. You just signed your own death warrant is basically what you did.” Foa Foa
Day 5 Yasmin introduced herself by saying she wanted to help them strategize because she didn’t like taking candy from a baby.
Didn’t I suggest last week that Yasmin could be portrayed as a “Dumb Player”. Forget portrayed, she IS dumb.” Jaison gave us the first reaction: “We have Yasmin here and one of her first words to us were “I want to help you guys. I don’t want this to be like taking candy from a baby. I was like: Screw you.” RussHell contributed: “She’s full of crap. She comes over here to our camp and disrespects us, calls us babies, tells us how we could win a challenge if we listen to her. She came to the wrong camp because she’s going to get nothing but disrespect from me from now on. She’s going to pay for that statement. I promise you.” Yasmin read her immunity clue and nothing in it said that the idol that is in Foa Foa’s camp can only be used by a Galu member. There were discussions about that and, from what we’ve been told, I believe that the idol is RussHell’s to use. Yasmin said: “I’ve been here only 2 hours so I don’t know who I can trust.
Could she have trusted someone with the clue?
Yasmin went on: “I do care about getting the idol but with that clue and all I had to go on was: A tree! Do you know how many trees there are out here? Too many, so, you know…” You know what? What did Yasmin say after this? Maybe that she asked for help. Maybe she went to Jaison with her clue, Jaison shared with Russell and that’s why he’s angry about Russell controlling the idol. It would also explain why Russell went against his original plan of keeping it quiet. By the way, Russell finding the idol after the challenge would explain the pain in Jaison’s knee that we saw when Russell told him about the idol. Yasmin and Ben then engaged in a horrible display of anger and racism. I’ll skip Ben’s confessional. The whole tribe looked uncomfortable, reflecting how the audience felt which, naturally it seems, led to a confessional by Ashley who is becoming not only Foa Foa’s narrator but maybe even their conscience. Ashley: “Ben’s a wild card, he’s definitely a liability. He’s saying things at challenges, he’s getting kicked out of challenges. Honestly, I think that what Ben is doing is stupid on his part.” Hearing Ben going on about ghetto trash, Russell said: “You know what, I wish Yasmin was here for another 3 days because I love confrontations. Her and Ben start fighting, everybody starts hearing it: I love that because it makes everybody not like Ben! You know I’ve got some great plans set ahead and it’s going to be real fun.” Foa Foa
Night 5: Everybody Hates Ben Ashley asked Natalie if there could be a respectful way to tell Ben that everyone was trying to sleep. Natalie’s short but wise response was: “Good Luck”. Betsy: “I don’t know what’s going on but Ben was up all night. I think he’s asking to get kicked out, it’s so ridiculous…” Jaison and Mick had a talk which showed they weren’t going to stand up to Ben. We heard words like: “He gets exasperated, he really just unleashes”, “that outlaw stuff, it’s a façade. I don’t think he’s as big a badass as he thinks he is.”
Which one was playing Chamberlain, which one was being Daladier? It was left to Betsy who had a talk with Ashley.
Betsy “Now that Mike’s gone, my head is definitely on the chopping block. There all looking at me (Liz shown) as the elder and the weakest but I don’t want to go home at all. Ben needs to go in my opinion.” She tried to rally Mick without success.
Mick: “Tonight, I think Betsy’s going home. We need to focus on challenges and she is considered the weakest link right now. Ben getting kicked out of challenges, him waking up and chopping wood, his big altercation with Yasmin, those are 3 big strikes so, I don’t know if he has a lot of friends left.” Betsy tried once more with Ashley and Natalie.
It was Ashley who received the confessional: “Maybe Ben would be the right choice to kick out tonight. He’s not a nice guy and he’s pissing people off. I was stuck on voting out Betsy but, now that I think about it more, I don’t know if that’s the right choice.” Ashley asked Liz for advice.
Liz was quite certain of her decision: “There are some good points for voting off Ben eventually but Betsy is a 47 year old woman and Ben is a 28 year old young guy. They are not physically equivalent which is the argument that Ashley was trying to make. I was like: Oh! My God! I don’t know what to do with this girl.”
For saying she didn’t know what to do, it didn’t take long for Liz to decide she’d throw Ashley under the bus Liz told RussHell about Ashley’s reservations. Naturally, it led to:
RussHell “Betsy is going home tonight because, first of all, she’s the weakest link and, second of all, she doesn’t trust me. (As if they were the firing squad, Ben, Liz and Mick were shown standing on one side while Betsy and Ashley were on the other) Marisa threatened me, Betsy threatened me. I’m going to go down the line. Each time somebody threatens me, they’re going home. Ashley? She’ll be going home next. I want to keep Ben this time and, you know what? Ben is going to stay this time because, whatever I want, happens.” Tribal Council Liz agreed with Jeff’s comment that Foa Foa was now one big happy family.
Betsy was seen with disappointment on her face
Liz added: “Going forward, we are pretty united.”
Pressing the point, Jeff asked about Yasmin’s visit which, despite the argument with Ben, Liz judged to be mostly congenial.
Ben told Jeff about the argument and how it was like talking to an idiot.
Russell said: “When (Yasmin) came to our house she said it was like taking candy from a baby. If somebody came to your house and disrespected your family, are you going to turn the other cheek or are you going to kick them out of your house?”
Ben and Russell exchanged a high-five.
The camera showed that Betsy was displeased and Jaison looked uneasy.
Jaison replied: “You can talk about kicking somebody out of the house but you have to win the challenges. I was upset when she said it was like taking candy from a baby but you don’t prove it here, you don’t prove it by yelling at somebody. You prove it by beating the other team, period.”
Taking the appeasement approach once more, Mick told Jeff: “That’s how Benny rolls basically. He doesn’t just show teeth, he bites. It intimidates people a little bit but you know what you’re going to get from him so, if you don’t want that, don’t go there.”
Betsy told Jeff about Ben’s 3 strikes.
Natalie was shown nodding her approval.
Betsy concluded: “What I don’t understand is that I’m the only one that brought my bag.”
Liz chuckled at that.
Ashley was asked if Ben’s ejection hurt: “Definitely” (Natalie approved) “I was in there with 2 guys and a girl. They attacked Jaison so it was just me. It did hurt us in the end which is disappointing but…”
Asked about it, Ben arrogantly said: “You never said we had to play by your sissy rules.”
That got a big facial reaction from Jeff.
Ben added: “I regret not helping my team but I don’t regret tripping him. Everybody else was doing all this crazy stuff…”
Asked about his chances of winning, Ben didn’t realize they had gone down to zero. The vote was a formality. We were shown Ben’s fake gunshot aimed at “bad cop” Betsy.
Interesting that during the vote, besides Betsy and Ben, the only faces shown were Russell on one side, (he got what he wanted) Ashley and Natalie on the other (as if they didn’t get what they really wanted). As Betsy stood, the two women were once more shown, this time Jaison’s disappointed expression joining theirs. Jeff told them the question was whether or not they were working together. “6 days in, down 3 members, something’s not right.” The camera showed Jaison who, while everyone else got up to leave, stayed seated apparently deep in thoughts. This episode showed that the story is all about Good Guys vs. Bad Guys.
So, let’s take a look at the Characters:
Galu Brett, Dave, Erik, Kelly and John weren’t given any airtime, some for the second week in a row. In previous seasons, that would be enough to eliminate them all from consideration. Now, the only thing that can keep them on the back-burner is the editor’s love for Russell’s story. It’s possible that their story starts only once they cross path with our villain. Highly unlikely that such a story could lead to a win but they do have the numbers right now. I know that’s strictly game play analysis, not editing analysis, but they have no edit to analyze. Laura: The only confessional she received in 2 weeks was to put a death warrant on Galu’s only star. In every season prior to this one, I’d say that Shambo would certainly outlast her tormentor but this time? Also of note; Laura scored the winning goal and was still ignored afterwards. One cannot like the chances of Laura winning the game based on the way she has been presented so far. Yasmin: She’s playing the role of the Dumb Player. The only question I have is whether her initial confessional or her display at Foa Foa is her defining moment. Either she won’t be able to deal with the conditions once they get tougher or she gets switched to the other camp and she gets her payback from Russell. Either way, Yasmin doesn’t make the merge. Russell S.: He was only seen during the challenge so he really should be linked to the first 5 but this season is about leadership and we were reminded he was the tribe’s leader when we saw him pick Yasmin. He is shown as the leader of a tribe that is on a roll so that could be enough for now. I’m not convinced it is but will give him a chance to show more. Monica: The expression we saw when Jeff told Galu that Marisa was voted out and the shot of Russell ordering her to sit the challenge tells me she could very well be Galu’s first boot. If she isn’t, then her thin but consistent edit could bode well for her. She’s the only one that has a consistent edit in Galu. I’ll wait to see if she does survive Galu’s first TC before saying she has an outside chance. Shambo: I’m very interested in reading how others saw Shambo. Did you consider her a “Dumb Player” or an “Underdog”? Again, in previous seasons, Jeff’s statement “If you can’t catch fish with this: Go Home” would have been enough to kill her story. But it seemed that the intent of showing her bathing in the swamp with shoes on was more to make her endearing than make her look dumb. There is a lot of care given her story, especially compared to everyone else on Galu so the question becomes: why? For now, I think it’s simply a question of having so few likable characters. In Foa Foa the story has clearly established 3 Good Guys, 3 Antagonists and a spineless leader. Mick: As leader, he wanted to stay low key but he carried that to new lows. He was shown with Ben when the lizard was being roasted, he constantly told us he understood Ben and even defended him in front of Jeff. He is getting a consistent story and sufficient airtime to be considered a contender by some but we were shown sufficient clues to say that he won’t win. That last confessional he had after Betsy pleaded her case to him showed that he won’t be the one that will be able to prevent Russell from getting what he wants. The Antagonists Ben: I will state that Ben is the biggest villain we’ve ever seen. He is certainly the most disgusting. A scoundrel with no redeeming qualities cannot win this game. Liz: An antagonist with a plan could be dangerous. We got very cold-blooded confessionals from her that showed she didn’t care about Mike and Betsy. She was shown as being on Ben’s side and was completely unreceptive to Ashley’s reservations, even using the opportunity to sell her out to Russell. She didn’t want to be seen as sneaky but her actions proved she can be. Jeff’s pre-season remark of “Do not trust Liz” certainly was true.
Liz also was in denial about Foa Foa’s problems, telling Jeff that everything was fine and she was shown to be amused when Betsy told Jeff she knew she was going. She has attached her wagon to Ben and Russell and it can carry her to the end. Would she be the beneficiary of all those evil actions or will she simply be Russell’s enabler? We’ll need more clues. Russell: He certainly is the story of the season and the way the scene of the idol’s discovery was manipulated makes me think that he has a very good chance of proving it was indeed easy to win this game. His chances are even greater if there was a discussion between Yasmin, Jaison and himself about the clue which was completely hidden. He was shown as being very clever but was he really? His plans, despicable as they have been, have all been successful. Can he be stopped? That seems to be the question of the season. I’d answer: Maybe, maybe not. The numbers make it look bad but who knows what the numbers will be when the merge arrives?
The Good Guys Natalie: I put her here only because her facial expressions put her on Betsy’s side but this isn’t a silent movie so I have serious doubts about the belle being saved from the oncoming train. 2 episodes without a confessional on a tribe that has been so highly featured are very telling. Ashley: She is stepping up as Foa Foa’s narrator which means her chances of making the merge are good. She is next on Russell’s list which normally would create the doubt needed for the winner’s story. However, that may prove fatal this season. Being in Russell’s line of fire and speaking up against Ben at TC definitely put her on the side of the good guys. She may play a pivotal role in stopping our villain or she may be his next victim. Of course, that didn’t work so well for Betsy so we’ll have to see how things develop for Ashley. Jaison: I was very troubled for Jaison’s story in the first half of the episode. Joining Russell on the dark side didn’t seem to be the role that was meant for Jaison. Being as indecisive as Mick was certainly didn’t look good for his future. Then Tribal Council arrived and that put Jaison in a setting similar to the court room. His intervention after Ben and Russell exchanged a high-five showed that he was as displeased with this TC as he had been during Marisa’s elimination. The look we saw after the vote was revealed established a connection between Jaison, Ashley and Natalie. Can this diplomatic man run an army? He could be Samoa’s last, best chance to stop the tyrant! About Betsy, she had one of the few solid edits in episode #1 so it led us to think she had a shot but we had to look at the game play analysis rather than editing analysis.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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09-26-09, 08:40 PM (EST)
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32. "RE: Episode #2: Editing Thoughts:" |
LAST EDITED ON 09-26-09 AT 08:46 PM (EST)Thank you michel for your detailed analysis. I particularly like what you pointed out about Jaison, Ashley, Natalie, and I do agree about Galu's non-edit. A few alternative viewpoints that I want to throw out there. THEME
First, it is sort of a consensus in this topic that this season is about leadership. Last season everyone said it was about first impressions. Before that it was Eden, a theme that had a bit more meat to it. I have said before and still believe that these twists they think up to start the show are NOT set in stone as the the season's theme. They are twists, gimmicks so the opening will be different, and they may or may not persist past the early episodes. The editing theme for the season may be quite different, and it's up to us to recognize it. That is the pattern that emerges as the season plays out - an arc that talented editors can make interesting. If the theme coincides with the opening gimmick, that is just luck of the draw, and it shouldn't be forced. This season, the leader twist is SEG's homage to the host culture. When they sold the filming to the hosts, they paid for the location and they pay in promotion. They try to integrate the culture in set design, challenges, twists. Now they did commit to continuing the leader twist past the first episode, and the leader will be asked to make decisions, which may be good or have repercussions. The idea of leader has been planted, and Mick and Russell have a role to live up to. OTOH, the players all understand that the leader didn't ask for the job. Russ S took his assignment seriously; Mick chose to let people play the roles they wanted to play. If Russ S bites it for that, it will be because he took the twist too seriously. Those of us who watch Big Brother know that each season the producers come up with a theme that they sometimes carry all the way; but the players create their own dynamics. Leadership from the chosen players MAY become the central theme; all I'm saying is that has yet to be shown whether production's gimmick of the season takes off or is a dud. So far I'm not sure what this Samoa season is about. some elements I've noted so far are: Audacity. Enterprise. Deception. Sabotage. Dirty Tricks. Sheer physical ability. Niceness doesn't count. Strong-minded women are threats. Racist attitudes reflect the social reality of some Americans, and shock others. As for leadership: Americans are not like Samoans. They do not respect the title in any way comparable to the weight it carries in Samoa. Back to the players:
LIZ:
>>>She didn’t want to be seen as sneaky but her actions proved she can be. As I said somewhere, not sure where, my take was that Liz always planned to be sneaky, and her concern with the stereotype was she didn't want others to see her as sneaky because she's Asian, because she wants them to judge her by her nice pleasant demeanor, so that she can play devious without getting caught. She never said "I don't like the stereotype because that's not who I am." She just didn't want to be outed due to pre-conceived notions that, as it happened, were spot on (for her strategy). That's my take, OTOH, I don't doubt she objects to ethnic stereotyping; most highly educated people do, and ethnic minorities all the more so. >>>Liz also was in denial about Foa Foa’s problems, telling Jeff that everything was fine. Hmm, didn't see that she was truly in denial; I would say she denied them to Jeff. I saw it as a strategy to present a postiive front and not highlight the fractures. People who talk at TC about how their tribe is messed up put targets on their backs. Last TC she was willing to say the puzzle segment of the challenge was disorganized, but I think that was to put blame on Marisa. Jaison
I like your division of Antagonists and Good Guys for Foa Foa, except that I don't think Jaison steps up to Good Guy until next episode. I feel he has been portrayed as a floater looking for his best opportunity, willing to deal with the devil. Ashley
I feel like Ashley's game play was edited negatively, even though she would have the love of the audience for looking at Ben as a liability. I think the cold Liz confessional made Ashley look stupid for running off her mouth showing her indecision. Ashley supposedly studied Survivor; then she should know when to talk freely -- NEVER. When to suggest voting out an alliance member to someone she barely knows who is allied with the proposed victim -- NEVER, without some indication you're on the same wavelength. I thought she lived up to the "dumb" monicker. MICK
I don't think he looks spineless. To me he is a huge threat (smart and buff), who is stepping back after getting on the wrong side of the vote. He course-corrected and went with the majority. His part in this episode was minor in terms of affecting the outcome. He was shown unable to tell Betsy that the fate she feared wasn't the reality. He wasn't dishonest with her. I thought Mick remained sympathetic and played smarter than most of the group. He is clearly vulnerable as he's not part of the majority alliance. Back to the theme, I'm leaning towards: Nice guys finish last; all's fair in Survivor; "nobody said this game was fair." (Thank you Tina.) How about: "Rascals in Paradise" or "the Dark Side of Eden." Jeff sort of said that. We're a long way from Gabon's Eden. This is not Paradise; this is Survivor. That's my take on the theme. BUT that may only apply to Act 1. We have yet to see whether Foa Foa is the next Ulong. Remember how in Palau we barely saw Koror until after Ulong was gone, but a Koror still won the game. We saw Tom and Ian catch snake and shark, which gave them a little needed face time. Could be similar with Galu. I'm not good enough to know which way the story is going. At some point FoaFoa has to turn the challenge losses around or survive by swap, or it will be Ulonged, and what will RussHell do if he's the last Foa Foa standing? Lastly, I like Liz's chances to go deep better than either of the blondes.
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michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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09-27-09, 02:31 AM (EST)
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33. "RE: Episode #2: Editing Thoughts:" |
LAST EDITED ON 09-27-09 AT 03:04 AM (EST)Thank you for your input, OFG. I'm not sure of the season's theme either as I only looked at this episode being about confrontations with its clearly designated Good and Bad Guys. We've been hammered over the head that Russell is the worst ever but I felt Ben is much worse so anyone defending him (Mick) or protecting him (Liz) fell on the negative side of the edit. Not to say that it eliminates both of them necessarily as I also give Liz a chance of outlasting the Blondes. She could go to the end with Russell and maybe getting the votes. I'm simply not sure yet. "Liz...never said "I don't like the stereotype because that's not who I am." I know, that's why I wrote she didn't want to be seen as sneaky. "didn't see that she was truly in denial; I would say she denied them to Jeff" I don't think there's much difference. Anyway, the audience believes Jeff knows everything so you can't deny him anything. The audience saw Foa Foa's trouble, that's how Jeff started his recap, you even compared them to Ulong. Saying anything but "we're in trouble" was painting a rosie colored portrait. For Mick, Jeff clearly called him out on his leadership, asking him if he liked how Ben represented HIS tribe. Mick avoided expressing his feelings, giving us an amateur psychoanalysis of the bully. That seemed like a death blow for his chances but we do see his story taking a different tangent next week. About Jaison, most of the episode did put him on the dark side but his TC performance was very telling. I think that was his defining moment and it tied back to his initial question to Russell about the first TC. In the Council's "Judicial arena" Jaison is in his element and sounded clearly above the fray like Yul did a few seasons back. I may have been influenced by the previews but his story about confronting Russell and Ben has already begun. On Ashley, you say she was portrayed as Dumb for talking to Liz but, until then, the audience didn't know Liz would go to Russell. I feel defending Betsy and going against Russell was what the editors wanted us to note. Finally, I don't think you are giving Koror enough credit. Remember episode #2 was the one where they settled on their new island and where they had to go after their reward crate that had fell to the bottom of the ocean. They were never as neglected as Galu has been. Everyone but Jenn had good screen time on that tribe. Coby, Caryn and Katie had memorable fights in those first few episodes. Tom was a perfect fit for the season's theme: You have to make the tough decisions. Tom made them all. Steph, Gregg and Ian always waffled while James was always wrong.
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michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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09-27-09, 12:46 PM (EST)
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35. "RE: Episode #2: Editing Thoughts:" |
LAST EDITED ON 09-27-09 AT 01:00 PM (EST)
OFG, I guess I should have defined the word then. I used denial as "refusing to admit the truth". The audience saw she wasn't being honest.
"This topic used to be more about who had a story that would last. and which were short term stories, and recognizing the story arcs" "Survivor" itself used to be about story arcs but that has changed. In the first 7 seasons, we probably only had Darrah that made the F4 without a strong story and not many (Nick and Zoe being 2 obvious ones) made jury without being well characterized. In the last 6 seasons, we've often had many in 1 season. Cook Islands had Brad, Rebecca, Candice, Adam, Sundra and Becky. Fiji had Michelle, Edgardo, Stacy and Cassandra. Susie came within 1 vote of winning but she didn't even have a story. That's why I prefer to talk about "impact players". Now, players that have an impact may not all make the end game. So, I feel that, for this thread to fit in Spoilers and not Fanatics, we have to differentiate between the players that have an impact and find the few that fit the themes so that they can be winners. I try to present all those stories and look for different options. For China, I saw that Todd fit in with the "Art of War" and nobody else did. For Tocantins, I wrote that if Coach was to get his wish, JT had to be the winner but if Coach was wrong then Erinn would be the winner. I added that Stephen's story didn't fit as a winner. I then made the choice that Coach had to be wrong. I may sound like a "Dumb Blonde" but "it is what it is".
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michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings
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09-28-09, 10:40 PM (EST)
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37. "Comparison of Tribal Dynamics " |
Talk of Koror had me comparing Tribes who have been in Galu's position since S9 (when we started having larger casts.)Tribes that didn't go to TC in the first 2 episodes and had the eventual winner = Koror, Puka Puka, Fei Long and Kota. Tribes that didn't go to TC in the first 2 episode but didn't have the eventual winner = La Mina and Moto. For case #1, I'd say Koror and Kota are the best examples because Puka Puka was a special case (only 5 members) and Fei Long was on a season with only 16 members. Yet all 4 tribes had very well defined dynamics. We knew about the core alliance: Ian/Tom, Becky/Yul, Todd/Amanda/Aaron and the Onions. We also had clear antagonists: Coby and Caryn in Koror, Cao Boi in Puka, Jean Robert in China and Ace in Gabon. That certainly doesn't correspond to what we know of Galu. La Mina may also be considered a special case because it had only 7 players and was formed during episode #2. Still, Misty, Ruth, Sally and Nick were clearly under-developed characters. Moto is much more like Galu. This is taken from my comments after those 2 episodes: #1: Gary, Lisi, Stacy and Lilliana had no impact on the story told in episode #1. #2: Back in Moto, Cassandra, Stacy, Lilliana, Edgardo and Gary had very limited roles. Today, we remember that Dreamz had airtime comparable to Shambo and both have been sometimes good, sometimes dumb. Boo was used for comic relief (his booboos!!) much like Yasmin was used for a laugh in the latest episode. Alex was the worried leader, ("something bad is about to happen")much like Russell S. In her only appearance of episode #2, Lisi had a sarcastic comment which could remind us of Laura. Cassandra, like Monica, had a confessional during the opening. I don't know how they manage it but, if history still means anything, it would indicate that the winner is in Foa Foa.
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michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings
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10-03-09, 07:15 PM (EST)
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38. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Samoa" |
In the recap, Jeff told us that there were 2 tribes going in two different directions:
- In Galu, it’s sunshine and rainbows, (Monica heard saying “cocorico”) they won both immunity challenges and everyone is happy except Shambo (we hear her say that she is frustrated with the tribe’s way of doing things)
- In Foa Foa, losing has frustrated everyone except Russell (We hear him repeat that he didn’t come to work, he came to play)We heard that Russell was the first person to find an idol without any clues, he figured out how to manipulate others (we hear the puppet confessional)
Meanwhile, Ben put the others on edge without even trying. We see his “highlights”: Getting tossed out of a challenge, keeping everyone up and lashing out at a visitor, Yasmin.
(Jaison clearly shown unhappy about that)
Ben’s actions put a target on his back (Ashley shown telling Liz that they lost the challenge because of Ben and then telling us Ben had to go because he is crazy)
But Russell wanted Betsy out because she didn’t trust him.
At TC, Russell got his way, Ben was spared. From the recap, the way most scenes were presented and Jeff’s TC talk about negativity, the quote that suited the theme of the episode the best was: “That’s Not The Way You Do It.” Foa Foa
Night 7 Jaison after getting Mick to agree that Ben had to go, gave us the first confessional of the evening: “At the last tribal council, Ben was this close from saying something to Yasmin that would have made me fly over a stool and say, not say but, you know, put him down. We voted out Betsy but, at this point, Ben is a mental plague on our tribe.” Russell went up to Natalie, asking her how she felt about the last TC and the next vote. Her evasive answers led to a confessional: Russell: “Nobody here is playing the game but me on my tribe. Not one person, it’s crazy. I don’t know, this might be the worst group in history and I might be the best! I’m going to have them all under control like zombies, walking around going Oooooh!” The intro was a clear statement on how the editors think the game should be played: Taking action like Jaison and Russell. Certainly not like Natalie. What about Mick? That question wasn’t answered here but soon would be. Foa Foa
Day 7 Ben was showing Mick and Liz how to make fire. Mick failed in his attempt. Ben: (solo) “We’re almost out of flint because these people don’t know what they’re doing. I’m the only one that knows how to start a fire. A lot of these people are not used to being in the woods and are kind of pansies. Mick’s not an outdoorsy guy like myself. I wasn’t surprised he didn’t know how to do it. I tried to show him and gave him a few tips but it didn’t really help.”
The camera angle of Ben looking down on Mick showed Foa Foa’s leader in a subservient position. With such a vital skill as making fire, we are told that Mick is not good. We are starting to get an answer on where Mick stands on this episode’s theme. Ben’s confessional continued: “Without my help, these people would die. I saved the day once again.” Ben showed that his limitations were in the social game: To Liz, he said: “Not to be chauvinistic, not to put you girls down, you won’t be able to start the fire with the flint.” Russell: (solo)“Ben is trying to tell everybody that they couldn’t survive without Ben. I applaud it. You try to save yourself but that’s not how you do it. You see, as long as Ben keeps up his crazy antics, his ass is going to be on the line. I got to keep Ben a little longer because he’s good for the challenges and he’s strongest guy in camp. (Mick and Ashley shown) So I’m going to have to debate which baby I’m going to send home next.”
Liz and Ashley were shown. We saw the target and the two voters Russell would need to eliminate her. Galu
Day 7
(You mean there’s another tribe and we aren’t down to the Final 7?!!) Laura was leading Erik, Kelly and Brett in a series of relaxation and stretching exercises.
Laura: (solo)“Right now, we’re winning so we’re feeling good. There’s great morale, we’re working hard, we’re all pitching in at camp and we’re all doing stuff. So, we don’t have to always be in game mode and that’s a huge, huge advantage that we have over Foa Foa.” With military drums signaling that the recreation should be over, Shambo made an appearance.
Shambo: “Are you freaking kidding me? We have 4 people doing yoga this morning? I feel alienated from my tribe because I’m not into the 90210 clique. I’m not doing the warm and fuzzy, I’m doing the Rambo-Shambo provider role. Do we have water? No. Do we have food? No. Do we have firewood? No. Screw yoga, man!” Despite Laura’s words, despite the undeniable benefits of meditation and exercise, and casting’s penchant towards that 90210 clique, is there any doubt that we were meant to agree with Shambo and say that’s not how to do it on Survivor? If you don’t think so, wait for later confirmation when Shambo goes to Foa Foa. Foa Foa
Day 7 Russell: “The reason I told Ben about Ashley gunning for him is because, right now, I think I need Ben. So, every person that wants to get rid of him, I’m going to get rid of them. I’m telling you; you plant that little seed in their head, in their little brain and it grows and it’s called a Russell-Seed. It takes over their whole mind so it makes it easy for me to manipulate every single one of them!” Ben confronted Ashley by telling her she had stabbed him in the back. After trying to explain that she was playing the game, Ashley walked away saying: “I’m not gonna fight with you.” Russell’s confessional went on: “When people fight, I love that! How can they not even think it was me? These people are just idiots. It is shocking that people trust me so much. They really do! Everybody here trusts me.”
Note that Ashley precisely didn’t fight. After talking to Natalie, Ashley had a confessional: “I have never been so confused in my entire life. Yesterday, Ben’s name got thrown around by everyone and apparently someone said that I was the one who brought it up. I do not feel safe.”
She asked Russell who had told Ben but he simply walked away. Galu
Day 7 Kelly read tree mail but didn’t get the confessional.
Monica: “So, we got tree mail today and it came with this nice, comfy, dry sack of clothing which most of us guessed would be swimsuits. Here it is. It feels awesome and dry and soft and fabulous!”
The Challenge:
Fun comments:
“Monica and Laura dragging Ashley out of the attack zone”
(Is that how Ashley gets away from Russell’s attack zone?!)
“Kelly unstoppable”
“John and Dave turning on the after-burners”
Unstoppable… after-burners?! I didn’t think that, editing-wise, they had even started moving so this sounded very ironic to me. If this is our F3, I quit!! When Russell was presented with a choice between comfort and functional items, we saw Dave wishing for the tarp.
After the leader had decided, Yasmin approved, telling Jeff that they needed comfort. Russell: “There was that split second I was like towels? Why the heck do we need towels for? There are no showers here! The guys are going to be all over me but, at the end of the day, if I make the women happy, we’re going to be happy.” Dave: “Russell took the comfort. “Danger Dave” here, would have said let me think of this for zero seconds, “I’ll take the function” but it was the chief’s choice and we were not allowed to make the decision.” After Russell decided Shambo would go to Foa Foa, we heard Ben say that Ashley would get voted out for stabbing him in the back. Foa Foa
Day 7
Shambo was warmly greeted. She called Mick “McDreamy” and Jaison “Brother”. She gave out a very nice compliment to Liz “You are one tough beastly competitor” and called Ashley “Smiley Girl” adding it was so nice to finally talk to her. Mick: (solo)“At the end of the challenge, the winning tribe got to pick someone to come over to our tribe so Russell chose Shambo. Totally different vibe than Yasmin. I mean…we’d like to adopt her. She’s just great energy, she’s just good people.” Shambo: (solo)“One of my main objectives in this game is to create inter-personal relationships as soos as possible(the new society that Jeff was so fond of mentioning in the season openers) When Russell picked me to go, I was tickled pink to head over and check out Foa Foa… I shared with them, they shared with me. It’s funny; people here are closer to my own age. They get me, I get them. I feel I have more in common with people here than people on my tribe.” This looked like a possible set-up for an alliance between Shambo, Mick, Jaison, Liz and Ashley… until Shambo gave a similar greeting to Ben. Still, it’s something to keep in mind for later. Shambo went on to explain that, instead of chores, “90210” wanted to do yoga. Liz’s reaction was the one the editors wanted the audience to share: “We don’t have the luxury of doing yoga.” Mick: (solo)“Of course, she’s here for a reason. She’s here to find the immunity idol and to get information to take back to her tribe which she claims she isn’t super-tight with. You have to assume someone’s lying always.” Russell simply observed the scene. Shambo (solo): “When I got the note from Jeff, I thought it was hidden immunity idol clues and I was right. I’m very excited… My tribe is probably going to try to vote me out sooner or later anyway so this totally rocks.” Russell (said as he observed Shambo): “Now, Shambo has the second note but I have the immunity idol without any letters or anything. I just used my brilliant brain to figure out where it was. I’m running this whole show. I’m the boss.”
(Although the sentences were chopped up, this confessional puts a hole in my theory that he had help from Yasmin or Jaison in finding the idol.) Galu
Day 7
Russell S. explained his decision: “I’m the type of man who believes you have to take care of your women.”
The women looked happy but the men? John (solo): “After we arrived back at camp with our comfort items, there was a little monologue given by Russell that he felt obliged to justify his decision. For crying out loud; how comfortable are 4 pillows, three beach towels and two woven palm frond mats are going to make you? You’re still going to be uncomfortable.”
(Laura felt “perfect” as she stretched on the mat.) Erik (solo): “Russell did not take the tarp. I think that was a bad move. I would have sacrificed everything on that comfort item list for the tarp because, maybe it won’t rain for 39 days, maybe I’m wrong, but the day it does rain over here, every single one of those comfort items are going to be soaked and all of a sudden not so comfortable. I’m just real scared that they think this is like Club Med. This is not Club Med.” Monica, hugging towels, joined Laura on the mat while Kelly got in the hammock. They seemed without a care in the world but the scene went directly to the theme of “That’s Not the Way to Do It”. It was a very bad scene for Galu which was revealed as a tribe divided. It’s bad for the long term prospects of the women shown here and it’s bad for Russell’s immediate future. Foa Foa
Day 7 Jaison was in the shelter with Natalie and Ashley saying: “Ben is out of here and, if not, then I’m leaving. That’s my ultimatum and that’s the way I’m going to present it.”
Natalie answered: “That’s fine.”
That leads me to believe she knew Jaison was doing it to force people to join his crusade or to call his bluff at their own risk. Jaison (solo): “I’m trying to circulate it that I might just walk away if Ben is here after tribal council. I have no intention of quitting whatsoever but I’m willing to do just about anything to get rid of that guy right now. It’s the racist comments. I won’t stand here and tolerate that. I just won’t.” Ashley (solo): “I don’t know what to think anymore. No one understands unless their name gets brought up. Ben has some personal thing against me and I’m trying as much as possible not to get me eliminated but it’s hard.” Russell was telling Mick and Liz that Ashley was going home. Liz agreed that they couldn’t afford one more loss. Russell had the 4 votes he needed if Mick was on board. Mick (solo): “So, Russell and Liz are adamant about voting Ashley out but that worries me because I am definitely loyal to Jaison.”
Russell told him they needed to talk more. They finally agreed that Ashley would go first and then Ben. Mick gave Russell his word and shook his hands.
What happened to assuming someone is lying? Russell (solo): “I want Mick to trust me and I want him to know how important it is that we stick together and that we can make this work. So, I’m going to let him know about the immunity idol. The Immunity idol is a powerful tool and it is a tool where someone is going to say: “Hey! This guy must really trust me.” My alliance with Mick is solid so that’s just another vote for me to get Ashley out. It’s simple: I was born for this. This is what God made me for!” Foa Foa
Day 8
While seen working with Natalie and Ashley, Shambo had a confessional: “I’ve been cooking it up at camp today, I taught them a few new tricks that they didn’t know so, I’m trying to be helpful and make good relationships with these people. But, I need to start looking for the immunity idol. I’m going to do a recon mission and see what we can come up with.” While Shambo was looking at the right tree, Ashley said she loved Shambo and couldn’t believe no one was working at their camp. Natalie and Liz agreed. Observing from behind the bushes, Russell: “I notice the girls are talking a little more. I will regret not sending Ashley home because there is no way she ain’t going to try to get that all-girl thing or something. We got to squash that out and we have this game under control.”
Was that acknowledgment from the puppet master that someone else can play this game? Seems like it. So Russell told us already that he will regret it. Russell, Mick and Jaison discussed voting out Ashley; Jaison pointing out that Ben has done nothing in challenges. Trying another angle, Mick said he didn’t like the possibility of girl-power and Russell quickly joined in. Jaison wasn’t worried about the women and he put his foot down. Russell had been stopped. Russell (solo): “I want to keep Ben around but with everyone saying how he is a poison and this and that. I don’t want them starting not to trust me. So, it’s like; damn!” Tribal Council
Jaison started off by saying Shambo was amazing and that he’d trade someone for Shambo, specifically Ben because she is a positive force while he is a negative force.
<Ashley was smiling, Natalie was smiling, Russell was frowning>
Ben said he was voting for Ashley, the weakest link.
Ashley said she didn’t think she was the weakest one and that she wasn’t bringing negative energy around the tribe.
Ben replied that he wasn’t negative, that he only reacts.
Jaison said that constant screaming puts everyone in a bad mood. He told Ben everything he had done wrong which Ben denied and asked Natalie to confirm it.
Before Natalie could answer, Jaison intervened firmly: “Amazing how you always try to go to someone you think is weak. That’s what bullies do.”
Ben said Jaison was a baby.
Jaison mocked the “outlaw”.
Natalie told Jeff she had been leaning back in case punches were thrown.
Russell tried to smooth things over by saying that Ben said negative things that might have been racial.
Jaison repeated the “might have been” in disbelief.
Asked if he could heel this wound, Jaison said he had drawn a line in the sand: “There is no 1 million dollars that is worth me sitting up here with him anymore.”
<Russell and Mick exchanged knowing glances>
Ben responded by saying he hadn’t started one fight.
<Ashley’s eyebrow looked like Phil’s in The Amazing Race.>
Ben added that “Ghetto trash” was not racial.
<Liz frowned.>
Confronted once more, Ben said that Yasmin wasn’t a lady.
<Ashley’s eyes crossed and she turned away, Russell looked uncomfortable, Liz bit her lip.>
Ben didn’t like Jaison playing the “racial card”
Jaison told him he should have some sensitivity to history (which was asking a lot IMO): “Historically, when certain comments are directed to certain people, it is because of race. If what you are telling me is that what you said had no racial context, then maybe Yasmin was right and you are ignorant.”
Jeff said Ashley must feel great that the heat wasn’t on her.
Ashley responded: “I’ve known for the last couple of days that he was going to vote for me but there is other tension so it does leave it a little off me but I packed my bags. You never know what is going to happen in the game.”
Ben found no reason to apologize to Jaison. Jeff told them to head back to camp, unable to find anything that he could tell them to help. The story seems to revolve around two conflicting themes. Naturally, both were given by Russell: - There’s a wrong way and a right way to play this game.
- The game is easy to win. Of course, the second could have been meant as irony, to show that Russell was wrong but let’s not assume he is. If the game is easy to win then what we perceived as the wrong way to play isn’t necessarily so. Playing the Wrong Way One thing we know is that Ben played the wrong way and has been eliminated. The following players have been shown playing the wrong way. Where does that leave them? Galu
Brett and Kelly: Neither has been introduced in confessional. They don’t have a personal story to balance being shown playing the wrong way. They are still perfect deckhands, setting the stage for the stars. John, Dave and Erik: All three share a single story! They aren’t happy about their leader’s decisions and they are causing a division in a tribe that was supposedly enjoying “sunshine and rainbows”.
Of the three, only Erik was shown having a game connection and that was with Shambo in episode #1 but, while we see that story coming back to life in the next episode, his personal story hasn’t grown. It leads me to believe that he will serve Shambo’s story more than she will serve his. Russell S.: We were told that Russell made a mistake. His talk about keeping the women happy sounds more promising for a woman to win. I doubt that they would simply let him win as a show of gratitude. Mainly, Russell has been one-dimensional: Russell is worried about Russell. Not a bad goal in itself but we should have heard more of his plans to save himself than keeping the women happy. Even if we suspect an alliance with Yasmin, we haven’t been shown anything to link them in the game. Russell S. will not survive Galu. Yasmin: Her story was dropped this episode. We didn’t see anything of her return to Galu. That tells me that what happened to Yasmin, what she saw at Foa Foa, what she told her tribe or what they think of all that has no significance. It can only come back as the reason to vote her out rather than setting a long term story. Showing her applauding the selection of comfort over the tarp makes me think that her only story is about suffering when the rains come. The sky looked ominous in many scenes and we know it’s coming.
Laura: If Survivor is easy to win then her confessional about having great morale, pitching in and not having to be always in game mode should be considered very promising. Maybe she gets it and that is the message. However, her two confessionals have been opposed by Shambo’s story and we haven’t had a single indication of what Laura does when she is in game mode. If Foa Foa makes a comeback, she has been set-up to regret her words about having a huge advantage.
Monica : She is a jovial character and she has received a consistent, albeit thin, edit. Identified as a Club Med vacationer could be detrimental to her story but life is easy for now and she is the one that is allowed to share it with us without anyone contradicting her directly. Better, Kelly read tree mail but Monica had the confessional. That tells me she is more important to the story’s future than the dreadlocked Blonde. If the game is easy to win and you don’t have to work hard, then Monica has the best edit to be the winner. I think it’s highly unlikely that the story would go that way but until we see her in Tribal Council, I won’t discount it. Foa Foa Natalie: In her tribe, the question about playing it right isn’t measured in the amount of work done but in ability to plan, to scheme. So, showing her unable to answer Russell’s questions showed she wasn’t doing it right. Staying out of harms way is certainly a good strategy but she can’t only be seen as lying around in the shelter or dodging punches at Tribal Council for us to consider that her plan is the right move. Mick: I feel we were told that Mick is playing the wrong way. He can’t make fire, he says he shouldn’t trust anyone because they lie but he shakes hand with the worst one to trust. He remains silent when his tribe is collapsing and he doesn’t take a stand in such a heated council. The game won’t be easy for Mick so he’d need to play it the right way to give himself a chance. We’d need to hear him say something along the lines of “I’ve been doing this all wrong…” before considering Mick has a chance of winning this game. There’s still time to change his story but he can’t be considered a contender at this time.
A Player on the fence Liz: I still have a problem defining Liz’s edit. Why was it important for us to know that Liz was adamant on voting out Ashley, thus willing to keep the Outlaw? Certainly, there is the suspense of the vote’s outcome to consider although that has, at times, been dismissed when a scoundrel was voted out. Robb in Thailand, Rodger in the Amazon and Jean Robert in China come to mind. Also, most of the suspense was removed when Russell said he had to consider losing everyone’s trust. I’d like Liz’s chances a lot more if she had at least told us she didn’t like the idea of keeping Ben but had to or saying she was hesitant. Still, her desire to keep Ben isn’t enough to say that she is playing the wrong way. As is, the thing to keep in mind is that Shambo paid Liz a large compliment as a strong competitor. The fact that she had no confessionals in this episode and almost no presence at TC makes me wonder about her real chances of winning. She is presented as someone who is working hard, who is part of the strategy discussions and who could play a big role in a women’s alliance but it doesn’t seem enough. I have her as a contender but with reservations.
Players Doing it Right:
Shambo: Making inter-personal relationships is the basic tenet of the game. We finally saw that Shambo is the people-magnet she claimed to be. Being a hard worker and having a military background is enough to let us know that we are supposed to see her playing the right way. Will her attempts at building connections with the other tribe lead to an alliance later on? Will that alliance serve her game or save a tribe that is drowning? There are hints that a women’s alliance could take over this game and that certainly bodes well for Shambo. Jaison: A man of principle, the man wanted to take control and he managed to stop Russell. Undoubtedly, he did the right thing but will he be able to continue? His threat of quitting forced the hand of 3 players and they may hold it against him at some point. Was it a bluff? Would he have walked off if Ashley had been voted out? He told us he had no intentions of quitting and he told Natalie that it was his way of presenting his ultimatum. It appears it was a bluff but the fact remains that he was shown as a man of principles. His story would make him a great winner… Probably too good.
Ashley: We see her working in camp, we see her doing the right thing by walking away from a confrontation with Ben and we hear her say that she will do everything to save herself. A member of Russell’s dumbass girls alliance, she has been the only one to profit from that alliance (the Marisa boot) and to survive his attack. If she is our winner, then she will have proven that being Sole Survivor is difficult. The one thing that has to be kept in mind is that she has been the target of every eliminated player. That makes her story difficult to judge because she had to be shown. I’d like to see how she will be presented when the heat is completely off of her but she certainly fits the themes as I see them.
Playing by his own Rules
Russell: Coming from him, being on Survivor to play takes a different meaning than for Erik’s Club Med members. Using strategy is certainly the right thing to do and everything had been easy for Russell until this last vote. Even then, he solidified his alliance with Mick and didn’t really hurt his alliance with Jaison because he voted out Ben. The big question is will the dumbass girl alliance come back to bite him? He told us already that he will regret not voting out Ashley so maybe we know what will be his downfall. Does he have a story that can lead him to the win? Villains have been set-up for the audience to enjoy their fall but there isn’t manipulation to make him look worse than he is. That’s his game. It may look suicidal but the edit has reinforced how it’s working for him. Right now, he has to be considered as a contender. As an aside: During the episode, the camera lingered twice on the tribal flags but with the word “Outlast” in focus (the one word missing from Russell’s sabotage scene). So, if Russell Outplays and Outwits, can we say that the players shown after the Outlast shot will join him in the end? The flag preceded the Yoga scene and Shambo’s greeting at Foa Foa. The players featured were: Laura, Kelly, Brett, Erik, Shambo, Mick, Jaison, Liz and Ashley. Add RussHell and I ask if that will be our merge tribe?
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10-03-09, 09:29 PM (EST)
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39. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Samoa" |
I understand your reservations about Liz but it's possible that the editors were downplaying her story at the moment and would ramp up her presence later in the game. Or maybe I'm just hoping that's the case because I want to see Liz win.You may be right in thinking that the merge tribe will be Laura, Kelly, Brett, Erik, Shambo, RussHell, Mick, Jaison, Ashley and Liz. And I hope Ashley will be the downfall of RussHell -- he's playing a good game but I'm not fond of him.
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10-04-09, 11:16 AM (EST)
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40. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Samoa" |
Great assessments, AS ALWAYS, michel! I always look to your thoughts, as you see so much. This was a very interesting week, and finally RussHell didn't dictate the boot. But, as Jiffy noted in his blog, to me his stock went up when we see that he is definately a man that can adapt and make a change at the last minute....which, imo, will serve him well.
Regarding this passage:
“Kelly unstoppable”
“John and Dave turning on the after-burners”
Unstoppable… after-burners?! I didn’t think that, editing-wise, they had even started moving so this sounded very ironic to me. If this is our F3, I quit!!
Definately laughing out loud at that one...I felt like that last week when I really believed that Betsey would survive...I guess the editors had to make Betsey wiser and nicer in order to make RussHell look worse, more evil, and yes, the greatest villain that Survivor has ever seen. I do come back to my initial assessment then...I favor these players for end game and possible winners: Brett, Shambo, John, Betsy, Russell S, Liz and Erik. I do think Evil Russell will make it post merge and could go toward end game, but he will not win. I definately thought there could be a red herring in there, or two, as initially it was John and then Betsey. But, we will have to reserve judgement on those red herrings. Certainly, the only one so far is Betsey. So far the story for me at Foa Foa is still indeed all about RussHell. How he wants Ben to stay, but in the end, he knows when to fold 'em. He is seen as quite calculating to me, confiding in Mick that he has the idol. It's almost like this is his plan C....as we know his plan A was the DumbA$$Blondes alliance, his plan B was the alliance with Jaison, and now he has a plan C. Clearly, he is playing this Survivor chess game to win, and I might add, he seems to be really enjoying himself. The preview vidcaps also tell us that the question, as it always is, at Foa Foa is who will be RussHell's next victim? We can predict most likely it will be Ashley or Jaison. At Galu, Shambo is noting just how much she doesn't have in common with her tribe, and just how much she does have in common with the FF's. Clearly, this will serve her well in this game when they merge, it will be her that either is saved by the FF's, or else is endeared to the FF's when she saves them. This positive approach, in contrast to Yasmin's horrific approach will serve Shambo well...clearly she outlasts Yasmin.
Another conflict has definately arisen at Galu, and that is with RusSwell and his choice for comfort. Jiffy hit us over the head with it, and the three men, Dave, John, and Eric all underlined that point. We have seen several Galu players set up as possible targets...in the first episode it was John, the bossy, challenge losing, know it all. In the second episode it was the loud mouthed, complaining, demoralizing Yasmin. In this episode it is RusSwell, the leader that made a really, really bad choice.
In closing, I think Galu is just about ripe for TC and I would gamble that one of the three, John, Yasmin, or RusSwell will go down. I also would like to mention what we know so well about the John Nash theory...in a tribe full of leaders, a follower will win, so could this bode well for Mick, who although was chosen as the leader, is certainly playing a subserviant role and letting the others call the shots? At least with the promo for the next episode, I clearly think that Mick will indeed outlast RusSwell?
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michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings
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10-05-09, 12:03 PM (EST)
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41. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Samoa" |
LAST EDITED ON 10-05-09 AT 12:22 PM (EST)
As always FP, I appreciate your input. Your opinions are so well thought out that they often guide me. So, regarding this:
"I also would like to mention what we know so well about the John Nash theory...in a tribe full of leaders, a follower will win, so could this bode well for Mick, who although was chosen as the leader, is certainly playing a subserviant role and letting the others call the shots?" Analyzing Survivor through "Game Theory" is something I really enjoy but it's usually something better done after the season. I know that KOB_fan used Game Theory with great success in Vanuatu, declaring that Chris would win after episode #3 but we see so little about strategy that it's better to have all the interviews after the season to know a bit more of what went on. If we apply Nash to Samoa, I see two ways the editors could be going and, in my opinion, neither is good for Mick. 1st possibility: RussHell is the Boss. We have been shown that Mick isn't a leader and RusSwell is a poor leader. Only Shambo is capable of leadership but she has no followers so she can't succeed. Then, RussHell is the only leader and he will most likely win. 2nd possibility: RussHell isn't the Boss. There are many leaders as you suggest. RussHell sees himself as controlling the vote but he isn't the only one. Jaison has leadership skills and will continue to assume his responsibilities. RusSwell is still Galu's leader and his island "wives and Daughters" will keep him safe from his "mothers-in-law" long enough to make the merge. Those "mothers-in-law", Dave, John and Erik all want to lead and so does Shambo and maybe even Laura, the "Club Med" activity director. Then, there will be an epic battle for control at one point from which a follower is most likely to emerge. The problem here is that Mick is one of those leaders. Natalie, Liz and Monica seem to be the ones that have been identified as the "best" followers to profit from the chaos. If a leader is to emerge at the 11th hour, Ashley, regrouping the women, seems to be the one the story has focused on up to now.
(I know I wrote Natalie was edited as playing the wrong way but Jiffy's blog gives a new light to that opening scene, one that has to be considered.) You seem to discount the first possibility but I made that mistake with Coach last season, believing he had to be proven wrong. That brings me to: "I guess the editors had to make Betsey wiser and nicer in order to make RussHell look worse, more evil, and yes, the greatest villain that Survivor has ever seen." This may be the crucial question of the season: Did the editors make Russell look worse and Betsy wiser? I don't think so. Russell told her that she'd go far if she stuck with him. Betsy then told us she couldn't, that she had to go against him. Since she left, one could say it was dumb. So, greatest villain or greatest schemer?
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10-06-09, 05:48 PM (EST)
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42. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Samoa" |
Michel – I love the way you find a theme each week. “That’s not the way you do it” was a brilliant way to dissect the episode. As always I enjoy reading yours and FP’s take on editing.Here are my thoughts: Foa Foa, Galu and Shambo: We have seen much more of Foa-Foa than Galu and the question remains, how much longer can Foa Foa last? Even though they probably win this week, I doubt they’re going to win the next 4 immunities so FF will probably be down by numbers at the merge. Shannon has been pegged as the outcast at Galu, but she has the biggest story of them all so something has to happen to drive that story. With her reception by FF, I would say that she flips at merge but that might not even be enough to have the numbers. We know so little about Galu’s dynamics we don’t even know who she might bring along with her (maybe Erik). Either that or RusHell works his zombie-like magic and gets Galu to start voting out each other. (That would be priceless to watch and worthy of winning!) But for all their success and even with the numbers, I just don’t see Galu lasting to the end. Shannon could be the last Galu standing. It was interesting that you two discussed the Nash theory. Monica is the only other person I could see outlasting Shambo, but her giggly girl Club Med routine doesn’t seem cutthroat enough for this season. I don’t see the yoga alliance: Laura, Kelly, Erik, Brett going anywhere. Who knows if anyone on that team has even made an alliance! RusSwell is the leader but who has the power at Galu? He wanted to make the ladies happy, but we heard all the men complaining about the choice. Other than Shambo, the ladies are shown cavorting in their Club Med paradise. It seems to me there’s going to be a vacuum when RusSwell leaves. We haven’t seen anyone “waiting in the wings” to take that job. Which leads me to Erik. He is foreshadowing the rain that we know is coming when he comments that the comfort items will be ruined without a tarp. He complains that the girls think its Club Med and it’s not. All I can think of is wait until they have to deal with RussHell at merge!) And it seems we always keep on coming back to RusHell. No wonder he is getting such a big edit! In other words, I think his edit is going to show him to be more of a master schemer than villain, and potential winner. I think Liz is in a good position in the game (whether she is the winner, its too early to tell). I think she is more closely aligned with RusHell than anyone else on the tribe. Everyone else at some point has said that they trust him. Ashley and Natalie were shown in an alliance with him on day one. Both Jaison and Mick have been lulled into trust by seeing the HII. We have not seen an alliance between RusHell and Liz, we haven't seen him show Liz the idol nor have we seen Liz tell us that she trusts RusHell, but we’ve seen her in action that she is pretty tight with him. So Michel, you wondered why we were shown that she was so adamant to vote out Ashley earlier. I think that was to show us who she is really aligned with and that would be RusHell (first and foremost) and Mick. She is the strongest female on Foa Foa and maybe the strongest woman out there. If a woman’s alliance comes about, she is in a good spot there too. She has ties to Natalie, Ashley and Shambo and could probably find some common ground with the Galu women. Between her strength and her smarts, she might even win immunity. (P.S. Betsy warned Natalie not to trust RusHell and I am very interested to see if Natalie took this advice or not.) These are the end game players that I see: RussHell, Liz, Mick, Shambo. It’s frustrating that we can’t tell who the end game players from Galu are yet! The editing and the numbers left on Galu just aren’t adding up! I wish applejack were still around. There have been some funny pieces used – military march for Shambo and some Deliverance bluegrass for Ben. I’m sure there are other bits in there that I don’t recognize. There isn’t a lot of animal imagery this season so I think there is more use of musical imagery (I just don’t have the talent for it!)
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10-07-09, 11:23 PM (EST)
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47. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Samoa" |
Regarding Liz, I think over the course of a season there are times when the potential winner should have a confessional about something and doesn't. It doesn't concern me too much unless it becomes a habit. I still like her outlook, although I'm starting to think that RussHell has some charisma or snake oil or something (Teflon coating maybe?!) that is keeping the attention off of him!You're right, I didn't mention Jaison and I should have. You know if you read my love list that I thought Jaison was wonderful in that episode. However, with the previews showing that he is on RussHell's radar combined with Jeff's blog comment after episode 2 (previewing what was to come), "Jaison is so well spoken. We don’t often have contestants that can state their case with such efficiency. However, I’m not sure his attitude is flexible enough to win this game. He has very strong opinions, which he vocalizes often and he has a hard time letting others be who they want to be. I think Jaison is approaching this game like a courtroom trial. I state my case. You state yours. A judge decides. Only problem, it doesn’t work that way out here." I decided that he has had his big moment on Survivor. Russ has been shown to be a puppet master; Jaison made a stand over an issue important to him. Jaison won this time around because he had the backing of the tribe, but there is no doubt in my mind that RussHell won't allow that to happen again. And I think Jaison will be made to pay eventually for the stand he took. In the past we have made fun of Jeff and his blog, but this year I think Jeff has written some good spoilerish stuff.
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10-06-09, 10:28 PM (EST)
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43. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Samoa" |
Thank you michel,
Thank you again for having the patience to go through the entire episode.There is much here that I agree with, and some that I saw differently. To be honest, I did not see the same themes you did in exactly those terms, but they are interesting. All of those ideas were present; I just don't see them quite that way. Re: winning Survivor is easy I like how you tied this in with the Galu tribe attitude. However, with respect to Russell, I think that his story arc will involve roadblocks, and we know that, so we are meant to see his cockiness as ironic. Not to say that he can't win, but he will have to play well to do it. Galu:
the question there was about can you maintain a winning streak if you lose your edge. In Ep 1 they were named Underdogs by Jeff, and embraced that, made a comeback. Now they are getting complacent. They make an argument that their bonding with yoga makes them a well--oiled team, and that may or may not work out with respect to challenges. Their team is for me reminiscent of Rotu vs. Mara'amu. Of course that season had a swap, but the dynamic of happy winning functional tribe vs. losing and scrappy tribe is similar. (Rotu did eventually lose one, in Ep 5 IIRC, Gabe boot.) At both Galu and Foa Foa, the survival part is being taken for granted by all but one or two tribe members. (In this they differ from Rotu.) We saw the Galu tribe majority choose comfort. This will cost them. We saw Foa Foa ignore the problem of a near-exhausted flint and instead they got caught up in interpersonal behavior and standards for such. Their most valuable camp asset could not be tolerated due to his mouth and attitude. This will cost them. We did not see one discussion about how Foa Foa will keep fed, hydrated, and warm if they vote off Ben. We see they do not get how much he is doing. Betsy and Marisa were workers as well. We see too much sitting, too little camp effort. Same with Shambo's comments on Galu. To me this is classic Survivor, reminding us this is not BB with a frig and a pantry. These people have to pay attention to the camp aspect in addition to the game, and they are not. We know there is rain coming and this is a set-up. As to the theme of "a right way to play." I think this is a valid perception, but as it didn't come through to me, I will go with what the editing made me think about. "To win this game you have to play the game, and play it all the time" was what I heard. Never give it a rest. Galu is too focused on unity. The downfall of not losing is that a tribe may fail to get its alliances in shape because it's not forced to go to TC. The "one big family" illusion gets in the way of playing. At Foa Foa, Russell is the one playing the hardest. Foa Foa
I think a lot of the odd editing is due to the editors playing around with us and keeping us unsure of who is really bonded with Russell. First they made it seem that Mick was polarized against Russell, but when they shook hands we saw nothing from Mick that he is anti-Russell. He is wary, but not an opposing force. Then they left Liz' status a mystery, which left her open as a boot target in our minds, but when push came to shove, her name was not brought up whatsoever. In the prior episode we saw her wanting to keep Ben, but at the same time she was clear that her consideration was strength in challenges. This episode it became acknowledged that Ben was not great in challenges, plus the older woman was gone. Liz was portrayed as still working for the strength of the tribe, as was Mick. This is in opposition to Russell, who is shown playing an individual game from the start, but is not to say that strength of the tribe is a poor strategy. As Jeff says, you want your tribe to have numbers at merge, and Russ's strategy is edited to make it seem he does not care. Because I think a lot of withholding is happening to further suspense about Foa Foa dynamics, I don't feel this is necessarily indicative of a lack of story down the line for Mick, Natalie, and Liz. I think that having too much face time is bad for Ashley and Jaison, just as it was bad for Marisa, Betsy, and Ben. Natalie
I remembered last ep that she's a pharmaceutical rep (like Stephenie). This "sweet" young woman sells drugs with known side effects to physicians who want to help their patients. I'm sure that involves persuasive skills excellent for the game of Survivor, the ability to sugarcoat, and to weigh risks vs. benefits. Liz
I see her as smart, cautious, definitely playing. We are not sure whose team she's on, but we've been shown she is a player. Mick
Mick's edit is odd, but I think it's sympathetic. The whole leader thing is a death trap and Survivor fans know it, and he's not biting. He is playing UTR in a tribe of alpha males. It seems like a decent strategy, and does not allow for Mick to do much at this stage of the game. He seems to be close to Jaison and Liz, and avoiding conflict with RussHell. Does he appear to be a winner? No, not if the theme of the season is something like Play Hard, Play Dirty. He's trying to stay honest. Which is funny because Probst said Mick is callous and devious. I think Probst has doctor envy. He was jealous of Marcus too. Jaison
I am in doubt that he has a lot more story after the great scene last night. While he is a fine swimmer and incredibly imposing physically, he's not good with survival skills, not an all around player. An ultimatum to quit is not good, even if he says he didn't mean it. Granted, he did it and it was going to be shown, not a choice. I feel he is too cerebral for this season. It is a dirty season and he is so clean and upstanding. Galu
The withholding is pragmatic - lack of time to follow the winning team, ten characters, the deferral of their story. At the same time, anyone who is going to be gone pre-merge needs some exposure, and the same with a major end game player. Yasmin and RusSwell have stories, as does Shambo. Of these, Yasmin's appears short-term, fully agree with your assessment. As you noted, she was not heard from again. Meanwhile, her story arc played out at Foa Foa courtesy of Jaison dispatching her foe. I would not be surprised to hear from Yasmin again after she sees Ben is gone, which will wrap up her story. Russ S has a decent story, the fate of the chief, but it's been an "uh-oh I'm gonna stumble and get put in the cooking pot" story since Ep 1. Then he stumbled. Not much to support him going far, so I assume this is pre-demise facetime. Shambo has been shown distanced from her tribe and making mistakes (the gear), but her Ep 1 exposure was so positive that I believe it indicates longevity, as does Ep 3, with all the foreshadowing that she'd love to be the next Shii Ann - hopefully with a genuine merge in place when she jumps. Speaking of the gear, I remember how Veruca Salt pointed out that Sally's loss of crucial fishing gear was not shown to be held against her after the scene where they confront the loss. Similarly? no gripes about Shambo after the initial scene. Sally survived to be the second last of her tribe and a definite heroine of the season. Ashley vs. RussHell
Re: Russell will regret not sending her home. I am not on the same page. I see nothing in Ashley, after a big build-up by Probst and her own self-assessment. She consistently disappoints me. Faced with the word from Ben, she did a deer in the headlights routine. We did not see her go around the camp player by player and do effective damage control. She did not turn it around with Ben by making up a counter lie. OTOH, I was impressed by Natalie's ability to stay as well out of controversy as was possible, considering she has a bond with Russell and Ashley both. Russell: “I notice the girls are talking a little more. I will regret not sending Ashley home because there is no way she ain’t going to try to get that all-girl thing or something. We got to squash that out and we have this game under control.” You asked:
>>>Was that acknowledgment from the puppet master that someone else can play this game? Seems like it. So Russell told us already that he will regret it. I saw Russell keeping his focus on possible plays in the pipeline. He was shown as highly aware of the dangers of getting down to 3-3 gender split, and more aware than his compadres. I think the "regret" statement is editorial misdirection. To keep up the storyline drama "who will stop him?", Russell needs an ongoing adversary. Editors wave the "female alliance led by Ashley comes back to bite him" story in front of hopeful viewers. In addition we have the idea the Russell will switch targets and aim for Jaison, allowing Ashley to lead a coup when the women gain the majority. However, I don't see Ashley with a "smart" edit. She's too young; she has insufficient life experience and is out of her league all around. I don't think that Ashley will lead a successful rebellion. As I said in the East Coast Spoiler topic, I think Russell has merely deferred her boot, and Jaison is the misdirection (and subsequent target). Russell's saying that he will regret not booting translates to me as "I am right to want to get rid of her, and by taking the politic route this time, it will cost me some work to get on top of this, but I will take care of her." I think this episode showed Russell, with the Jaison rebellion, that other people certainly can throw a monkeywrench in game. However, he has been aware of that since Day one. He noted that he would need to be careful with Betsy. He noted that Marisa was pulling away. He took note in Ep 3 that Ashley was defying him. Now Jaison has given an ultimatum -- NOT directed at Russell, but at his ally. So R is very aware that there are dangers; he talks with a lot of swagger but at the same time he is eyes wide open. I think by "I'm the only one playing" that he means no one else is revving up their game to tell the big lies and deceptions. People are trying to play honestly, and he scorns that approach. Alliance play is SOP for Survivor, and he doesn't doubt that Ashley will try to pull the women together. That is not an original strategy. It's dangerous to let the tribe be evenly split as to gender as they approach merge, but an even split is still not a majority. I think if there is a "right way to play Survivor" theme, it's more saying that the right way to play is whatever works, vs. standing on principles. Russell came in with a specific strategy of deflecting the negative focus on to others, while building undeserved trust. He did the right thing by not forcing the issue with Ben. He didn't have the numbers and he would have had to put himself in the limelight. He made his pitch about the woman's alliance. It was a good pitch. No one accused him, to his face or otherwise, of being disingenuous by pushing a minor concern as a strategy to keep an ally. Russell went with the flow and was once again edited as doing very well. He lost his shield; that was the purpose of keeping Ben, the bigger target. There comes a point when you can't hang on to the shield - it's counter-productive when you have to make yourself a target to hang on to it. You have to let the shield take the hit, as good shields do. And move on. Which RussHell did. Was this round a loss for the Evil One? I didn't see it that way. A hiccup maybe. I think Ep 3 showed that Russell can play strategically and see the big picture. Before that it was dirty tricks and too many alliances. At the end of Ep 3 he was still not remotely on the boot radar, and he has the HII, and the chances of this tribe pulling it together to blindside him are not great, IMHO. Because he has so many attachments, I think at least one would come through and warn him of an attempt. Plus everyone thinks they have a piece of it. I guess my variations of theme for this episode would be:
a) You have to play the individual game all the time, always keep the edge. (Galu beware.) I would say this is a long term theme. Function vs. Comfort:
Yes, it was the RC theme, but it played out on both tribes. I would say that booting Ben was definitely a choice of Comfort (mental and emotional) over Function (fire, food, water). At Galu, this theme was explicit, and there too it was more than a matter of Russell S's choice. It was the whole attitude around camp that was first shown last episode with the yoga. Galu and Foa Foa both shouldn't overlook the survival aspect by focusing on saving energy for challenges. They have to watch your fire, food, water, shelter situation at all times, and if they don't pay attention to function, they won't be comfortable. The stage is set for misery, and I think this will play out through Episode 6. (It will rain.) We shall see whether the merge and the return of sunny weather will put this theme to rest, or whether the merge tribe will continue to have survival issues. If so, there is the possibility that a provider figure could gain some longevity. That hasn't happened for some time. I think it worked for Ozzy in Cook Islands, to some extent, and it worked for Tom Westman and Ian in Palau, for Rupert and Rob Mariano is ASS (a physically tough season). In recent seasons, players have done a good job of sucking it up and getting through the 39 days. However, JT was an excellent provider, and so was Bob; they won for other reasons I think, but no doubt it contributed to their popularity around camp.
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Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-07-09, 09:07 AM (EST)
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44. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Samoa" |
Excellent observations, OFG! I thoroughly enjoyed your assessments, and as always, was amazed by it...
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DRONES 615 desperate attention whore postings
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10-08-09, 02:37 AM (EST)
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48. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Samoa" |
LAST EDITED ON 10-08-09 AT 02:38 AM (EST)Great analysis michael. Here are my thoughts. Jaison is not long for this game. He let a percieved put down cause him to have a meltdown. You just can't do that in this game. He comes off as much of a hothead as Ben or Yasmin, who's story revolved around her confrontation with Ben who is now gone. Both Yasmin and Jaison will be gone sooner rather than later. To bad really because I had high hopes for Jaison. Interesting turnaround of Shambo's character. She seemed very well liked at Foa but I had a feeling that she was being to helpful, trying to hard as it were, still we saw a different side to her personality. She is certainly a character. Ashley I can't seem to figure out. Her name gets a lot of air play yet she hasn't really done anything other than play the role of the pawn. Maybe that's the point. Pawn's get used and then are discarded. Russel from Gau. Made one of the most bone headed moves he could have made. When the rain comes, and it will come, the guys, and even the girls who wanted the luxery items will blame him, and rightfully so. He made the move to curry favor and it will backfire. Russel from Foa. Lets not kid ourselves here. This is going to be his season until he is voted out, which won't be until well after the merge. The winner of this season will be forgotten but not Russel. This will make figuring out who the real winner is going to be more difficult. We won't get a good glimpse of that person until after the merge. <b>I can't help but wonder if the eventual winner will be someone who bests Russel.<\b> A few things to keep an eye with Russel: How long can he keep up this act? Will his confessional talks start to spill out onto his tribe, IOW will he start lashing out and making confessional comments to his fellow tribe mates? Can he make a solid alliance with someone and still not tell that person what his plans are? He all ready made a big mistake by telling two people about having te HII. A secret no longer exists when more than one person knows about it. He really had an opportunity to use it to in a way that it hasn't been used before.
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michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings
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10-10-09, 07:42 PM (EST)
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49. "Episode #4: Editing Thoughts:" |
Once more, the recap was about Shambo and Russell.
Galu won all 3 immunity challenges and, at camp, most of the tribe kicked back and relaxed while Shambo did most of the work.
In a twist, Shambo was sent to observe the other tribe (hugs with Natalie and handshake with Mick”Dreamy” and Jaison showed) and she immediately bonded with everyone.
At Foa Foa, Russell was a force to be reckoned with. He constantly manipulated the others to further his own ends. As Foa Foa was preparing to go to their 3rd tribal council in a row, Jaison got furious at Ben because of his racially insensitive comments. Jaison wanted Ben out but Russell didn’t agree.
At Tribal council Ben wouldn’t back down, so Jaison stood up to him.
During the confrontation, Russell realized his best play was to vote off Ben.
Now, the tribe is down in numbers and morale.
<Mick shown leading the way back to camp>I’m sure everyone noted the creative way the recap made it appear that Russell changed his mind on the spot. I was more interested in noting that Liz and Ashley were completely ignored despite getting the biggest welcome when Shambo arrived. It indicates that Liz being a “beastly competitor” and Ashley being a nice “smiley girl” meant nothing in the grand scheme of things. Ashley’s story was dismissed even more when she wasn’t mentioned as the one Russell had targeted. Looking at the different scenes where players were blaming everybody else, I saw this episode's theme being:
“They Prey on You Doing Something Wrong”Foa Foa
Night 8 Asked by Mick how he was doing, Russell said he was doing alright, blaming Ben by adding: “He gave me no other choice. I told him I wouldn’t vote for him but after that, I had to.”
<Ashley seen listening in> Jaison (solo) : “What happened at Tribal Council was me trying to let Ben know how I felt. I cannot handle people who use phrases that are meant to hurt on a very basic level. I’m hungry and I’m tired. I came here to have an adventure but I, right now, believe that me coming here was the worst decision I have made in my entire life.” Next morning, Jaison and Russell took a walk on the beach, Jaison complaining that it was tough.
Russell in confessional, blamed Jaison: “Jaison was really upset with Ben. He took things very personal. I really believe that, if Ben had stayed, Jaison would have quit the game. Now, what kind of man is that? Now, I’m willing to get rid of Jaison and whoever I want to be gone is gonna be gone. I have it all under my thumb right now.” Galu
Day 9 Shambo (solo while most of the tribe is shown sleeping): “I got back at Galu last night and I’m not happy because, when I went over to Foa Foa there was a huge appreciation for Shambo, huge appreciation.” (She was seen telling Galu how Foa Foa’s camp was amazing.)
Her confessional continued but the way it was edited, the next sentence seemed to have been said to everyone. “Everybody over there loved me. I feel 10 times closer to Foa Foa than I do with Galu. They just want to lie and gossip on the beach <Kelly, Laura and then Brett shown> So, I have no problem going to Foa Foa because I already have a following there. If I make it to the merge, I already know that I have their votes so I’m way ahead!” Erik and then John approached Shambo about the HII clues which she revealed. Erik (solo): “Nobody really talked Shambo last night about the second clue to the immunity idol. I came up with this idea to get all the information I want to get from her. I’m 30 seconds away from nailing all the information from her and in walks John, like he has this brilliant idea.” Shambo (after telling the guys to vote for her in the end because she was honest with them): “I don’t feel like I hurt myself in the game in any way, shape or form by sharing knowledge with them. That can do nothing but help me going forward. Maybe I’m wrong and it will hurt me, we’ll see.” Foa Foa Mick: “We just got tree mail and it says that I need to choose 2 people to go on a mission which may or may not lead us in having a little bit more food. Obviously, I want to bring people who are strong in some sort of challenge situation. So, I will be taking Russell because he is good at strategizing. Natalie is good with puzzles and things of that nature so I thought it was perfect.”
He asked if the tribe was comfortable with that decision.
Liz had no comments even if she had been picked in the first challenge to be their puzzle person. Approaching the challenge beach, Russell S. told us: “I took Shambo and Dave because I need some brains and some firepower.” (!!)
We knew that Russell lacked both but didn’t think he’d admit it!! In a scene reminiscent of a Sergio Leone film, the opponents stared at each other with Sheriff Jeff nowhere to be seen. Russell S.: “So, we’re standing there looking at each other. We’re waiting for Jeff because, at every challenge so far, Jeff has already been there. So, we’re like “what do we do?”
(Note that Russell H. was the first one seen making a move towards the crate as the mastermind should. Was he really the first or not? Impossible to tell) Dave (solo): “Suddenly, it was on; the frenzy was on! We’re going into the treasure box. It had… these instructions. Reward challenge. Oh! The tribe who wins gets to bring the chicken home.”
We heard Russell S. telling Mick to go first, thus giving himself the advantage of last throw.
Mick (solo): “Russell’s ball knocks mine closest and I can taste the chicken in my mouth.” Natalie : “Mick had thrown those last 2 balls so close to the stick, my goal was to not even get close to them because I didn’t want to mess anything up.”
<Her first throw did mess it up but her last one made up for it>
Russell S.: “We’re panicking all over the place. Shambo was like no good. So it’s between Russell and Dave and they each have three chances to win.” Mick : “Dave has the final ball, we have the closest ball to the flag. I’m looking at the chicken and I’m stoked. This is finally something we can bring back. We’re finally going to win.” Dave: “Last ball is on me; make it or break it! At this point, we’re not going home with the chicken”
<He made it>
Mick: “It’s so demoralizing. I’m so tired of losing to these guys. It totally split me in half to see Galu walk off with those chickens. It so ludicrous that we can’t even pull off freakin’ bocce ball.” Note that Hantz wasn’t heard saying a word during this whole scene. If it means anything, it would be that rewards aren’t important to him despite his earlier words to Jaison on how they give hope. Galu
Day 9 Erik (while most of the tribe is sleeping): “Thank goodness Russell didn’t take me for the challenge today because, with him gone, I can get people to do things, working for the tribe, while I stay home and find that immunity idol.”
(Monica and Laura were sent on fruit patrol, John and Yasmin joined Brett and Kelly on snooze patrol)
His confessional continued: “I have ten minutes to find that idol that, apparently, is in the bark of a tree.”
<While Erik searched, John was shown looking up, suggesting that he may once more disrupt Erik’s plan. But then, with a cymbal crash to underline stupidity, John simply turned over in the hammock>
“I got the idol! I knew it was in this tree. The best part about having this is that nobody has any clue that there’s even one here. They think it’s at Foa Foa…Of course, I’m not going to tell anybody that I’ve got the idol but I’m going to use it down the road, maybe around day 30, 36 because I plan on being here for a while and this is going to be my ticket.” The challenge trio was returning to camp with Russell and Dave congratulating each other.
Russell: “Carrying that chicken coop felt great coming home…We’re bringing home the bacon baby!”
Bacon? While Dave reminds me of Varner, there isn’t a Skupin around to catch a pig. Country girl Shambo was assigned to chicken duty, Dave saying: “We need somebody who won’t, accidentally, let them out.” (Perfect set-up!!) The girls, Laura in particular, were seen all excited by the news.
Dave : “I won chicken. On the inside, (raising his arms with a lot of enthusiasm) We win!! However, I was trying to stay emotionally centered and humble within the tribe. Getting cocky is a quick way to “show me the door”. However, I won chicken. What did you do? Not that. Peace.” Shambo: “I don’t claim to be a chicken farmer but I was introduced to them at a very young age. You have to have a relationship with chicken… The Survivor chickens will know Shambo and they will give me eggs in return because I will be kind to them.”
<Erik and Dave’s reactions at her clucking sounds told us they thought she was weird> Foa Foa Jaison: (huddled in the shelter during a rainstorm): “Mick, Natalie and Russ; they lost a challenge. I think, normally, I’d say I was hungry for a win but I just want to survive until another day. I’m tired, I’m hungry and I’m really thirsty so, right now, it doesn’t really matter.”
In a repeat of the morning scene, Jaison and Russell talked about the difficulties they faced. Russell: “My true alliance, it changes all the time. I told Jaison that I’d bring him to the top two but I don’t know that I can count on Jaison staying in the game.”
(note the obvious change of sound quality between the words “count on” and “Jaison staying” This confessional was spliced together to make us think Jaison will quit)
“I need somebody <Natalie already shown> that is going to help me to get to the final 2. So, I’m going to have to take somebody like Natalie with me. She is going to ride my coat-tails the whole way. She’s too stupid to do it by herself, she needs me. So, I can stand up there and say she followed my coat-tails this whole way, she rode me like a horse.” I bolded the whole confessional because it sounded like the entire season was spelled out right here. First note that it was a fabricated confessional: What was it that Russell couldn’t count on? The “Jaison staying in the game” seemed taken from another confessional. Note also that, at first Russell is talking about needing someone to help him get to the final 2 but then, when Natalie’s name comes up, she is someone he needs to be able to beat with jury votes. So, what if Russell really said “I don’t know that I can count on beating Jaison in the end”? Will it be that easy for Russell? Will he make it to the final 2 with Natalie and is she so stupid that she couldn’t beat him? It’d be nice to hear from her so we could be in a position to judge. On the other hand, is Russell making a fatal mistake assuming it’s a Final two and will the player who joins him and Natalie in a Final 3 be the winner? We are immediately reminded of Natalie and Russell’s day 1 promise followed, with perfect timing, by: Natalie : “Russell and I talked about, since the first day, being the final 2 at the end. At this point, I’m like his wingman I guess you can say.”
With à-propos, Natalie tells Russell: “Hopefully we start winning.”
Her confessional continued: “I definitely think people underestimate me and I want them to think that it’s really smart to take me to the end because they can beat me. You know, use that to my advantage. If it comes down to me or him, I know I can beat Russell at the very end because I would say a lot of other people on the tribe have really been rubbed the wrong way by him. So, I’m just trying to not ruffle feathers, steer clear and build relationships which is what I’m good at and ” Russell told Natalie: “You’ve got it made, I’m telling you.”
(Was that to tell us she really will have it?) Galu
Day 10
(Monica and Brett are shown but it’s only so that we notice the clothesline that is in camp!) Shambo gets an egg but loses a chicken.
(The egg came first, as always) Dave: (in one of his Varner-type confessionals): “We were just talking about how everybody is so hungry and we hear: “Escaped Chicken! Emergency! Escaped Chicken!” Sure, enough, Shambo let a chicken get away. Her and Erik are running around chasing it and it’s like tweedle-dee and tweedle-dumb. Erik, he’s running after the chicken and he gets clotheslined… by the clothesline! It was pure comedy right there!” Russell: “I’m not calling Shambo stupid but it’s a bird for crying out loud! I would think you would assume that something with wings can fly… I was stunned.”
(A country girl or a fan of Boston Rob should know) Erik: “Shambo thinks she’s gonna get the chicken out of the tree by clucking at it… Shambo thinks she produced an egg. What did you do to produce an egg, Shambo? And nobody cares, that’s the worse part. Is anybody looking for the damn chicken? This tribe sucks.”
<In addition to Shambo, the ones that sucked shown as these words were spoken: Yasmin, Russell, Monica and Laura> Galu
Day 11 Kelly was working on a coconut, Yasmin wasn’t. Kelly: “I’m so sick of Yaz doing absolutely nothing. She’s like waiting around to be taken care of as if she was a little princess. It’s kind of frustrating and annoying. I think the reason our tribe is doing so well is that we are focusing on bringing our team as strong as possible to the merge but Yaz is here for herself. She’s not a team player, she doesn’t help out around camp. Say we do lose a challenge; I think Yaz will be the first to go.” Immunity Challenge
Besides Jeff showing up, the thing to note was the happy faces of Galu when they heard Ben had been voted off.
Fun comments:
- Monica and Kelly working together.
- Erik cruising through this. No problem at all!
- Monica is taking a long time for Galu (For some reason, we heard her breathing extremely amplified. Was it to appreciate her effort or to show that she was in over her head?)
- Natalie is making up for lost time (enough to make up for the 3 episodes in which we didn’t hear from her?)
- Ashley is screaming across this rope bridge.
- Look at Russell go (have we been able to do otherwise?) Foa Foa’s emotion at winning their first immunity was nice to see.
After the challenge, we heard Monica saying: “Everybody keep their head held high.” Jeff’s comment that there was a big cloud over Galu sounded like a sign of things to come. Russell: “I saw Monica basically disappear at that challenge. This is Survivor, this is about physical, mental toughness and, today, Monica just didn’t have it.” Galu
Day 11
Russell: “Today, we lost our first immunity challenge. I was pissed off. There’s no reason why we should have lost. We had the lead and I saw one person falling apart. That was Monica.” Calling him boss, Erik asked for Russell’s opinion and agreed that Monica had been horrible. Not dispelling Russell’s Club Med judgment, we saw Monica walking alone on the beach and in the ocean. 90210 had a different opinion as we saw Dave, John, Brett, Kelly, Laura and Monica talking.
Dave mentioned that Shambo’s screw-ups were a shot at team morale but that Yaz did nothing. Monica agreed and Dave said that he wanted Yaz to go. Monica: “We’re going to our first tribal council tonight and some names are going about. For instance; Yaz doesn’t do anything. She sits by the fire and observes things so that gets annoying. So, I think Yaz is going home tonight but this is Survivor; crazier things have happened.” Yasmin and Shambo were thinking it wouldn’t be crazy to vote out Monica. Yasmin giving us the pearl of the evening: “I am not stepping up to do nothing because you know what these people do? They prey on you doing something wrong like letting the chicken go.” Yasmin: “I’ve had my game face on since day 1. I came here to play. I’ve been… helping win our challenges. If you’re going to penalize me for that…vote me out because my body could use a rest.” Erik joined the beach crowd to tell them Russell was dead-set on voting out Monica.
John and Kelly told him they liked Monica and that it had to be Yaz. Erik: “There’s a ton of crazy talk about voting out Yasmin. It’s true, she doesn’t do much around here but Yasmin is stronger in challenges than Monica. Unfortunately, people are rallying around Monica so I don’t know how it’s going to play out.” Erik said he didn’t want to be on Russell’s bad side. John agreed he didn’t want to mess with him while Kelly said she was still on the fence.
Erik told Russell it would be Yasmin which led to: Russell: “Yasmin. That’s a vote that I absolutely disagree with. Every time there was a challenge, Yasmin kicked it up. Today, Monica dragged her butt. I want the strongest tribe and I’m the leader so these people, they got to listen to me or there will be some serious ass-kicking.” Tribal Council
Shambo told Jeff that everyone was uneasy so it wasn’t good.
Brett directly said that Yasmin was doing less work than the others.
Yasmin said she was surprised, adding: “Everything someone asked me to do, I did it…Maybe I don’t belong in the jungle because I have high-heels but I wanted to look good for you, Jeff.”
<John and Erik were shown doubting her words while Shambo and Russell smiled>
Russell said challenges were their base: “Get the challenges done, the rest falls into place.”
Yasmin agreed, saying she liked to compete and that Monica struggled.
Monica said it sucked hearing that. She said she did well and that, after a slow start, she “came back to (her) normal self.”
<Shambo and Erik visibly disagreed>
Presented with the dilemma of making a social, physical or strategic decision, Dave wisely said: “What’s good for the tribe is good for me.”
Laura added: “Number 1 for me is who is helping out around camp the most.” Besides the obligatory shots of Monica and Yasmin, we saw the anticipation of Dave and Shambo and the reactions of Laura and Erik when the first few votes were read. Laura even gave a defiant look to Yasmin. It was as if those four were the true opponents, the driving forces behind each faction. Then, when the Yasmin votes accumulated, we saw the rest of the tribe react. In the end, Laura was shown smiling as Yasmin made her way down the stairs.
The Story:The first thing this episode showed was that, while Galu’s story isn’t the same when they go to TC, Foa Foa’s story is independent of Tribal Council. Except for the post challenge footage when we had to be at Galu, Foa Foa in this episode was equal to Foa Foa in the first 3 episodes. Galu was all new. The second thing to note was that, being up 4 members, this vote should have been simple for Galu and it probably was. When you have the numbers, you vote for your alliance first. However, it felt that the dialogue presented was more than what was needed to create suspense at the outcome. The vote was presented as do or die for Galu, especially Russell’s uncharacteristic promise of ass-kicking. Despite Shambo being the only one voting against the majority, Galu appeared irreparably divided. Those observations lead me to separate the characters in two categories: First, we have The Players Caught in the Moment: These include most members of “Club Med” because, well, this tribe sucks! Kelly and Brett: Besides seeing them sleeping next to each other we didn’t learn much from them. They are members of the “Club Med” alliance and should be safe as long as Galu exists but they have shown us nothing that would lead to further story lines.
Kelly had her first confessional where she simply talked about Galu’s immediate problems with Yasmin. Knowing what often happens on Survivor, letting us hear that Kelly was still on the fence was another indication that she won’t last much past the merge.
What about Brett? Most guys would like being close to Kelly but it doesn’t seem to be a story worth mentioning. John: His role in the “Club Med” alliance was reinforced when we heard him telling Erik that he liked Monica. The only glimpse of foreshadowing for John came when he said he didn’t want to mess with Russell but that is rather short-term. There could have been something built around the Hidden Immunity Idol but, instead of driving the story further, John was sleeping at the wheel. Laura: On first viewing, Laura’s presence seemed more substantial than it really was. Maybe it was because I remembered her leading the yoga exercises or because we had seen her being very close to Monica but I felt she had been a leading force in saving her “girlfriend”. The TC footage had a lasting impression on me until I re-watched the episode and realized how trivial Laura’s role had been. She listened to the other 90210 members discuss the vote, she asked where they were going with the vote but didn’t contribute much herself. That’s smart game play but we’re not analyzing game play here, we’re analyzing editing. Not giving her a chance to explain her thoughts was very telling. Laura won’t matter in the end. Monica: Being the alternate target of Galu’s first vote sheds an interesting light on her initial portrayal. Whereas Yasmine had been shown as a “Dumb Player”, we had been introduced to Monica’s cutesiness. Her confessionals in the first 3 episodes were shown so that we could relate to her, maybe even want her to stay. We were rewarded but we were told there would be consequences. By going against their leader this simple vote gave the impression that it will lead to Galu’s demise. The message seemed to be: You wanted Club Med, you got Club Med, not Survivor. The ones playing Survivor are not here. Russell S.: He is wrong about Survivor which is much more a social game than it is about physical toughness. He stopped worrying about himself and declared war on his own tribe. That should be the end of his story because he doesn’t have the firepower and maybe not the brains either. Dave: His tribal council intervention of “What is good for the tribe is good for me” showed some promise. However, Dave was still trapped in the moment, especially with the importance such a small reward took compared to the rest of his edit. His comment about cockiness gave us an example that Dave can think ahead but he is mostly shown as a complainer, not a planner. There are also Foa Foa members in this category because they could be the worst group in history! (Aren’t we lucky this season?!) Liz: Last week, Liz’s role in Foa Foa had been neglected. Her only shining moment was Shambo’s compliment. In the recap, an occasion to build on that small moment was completely ignored. While most of Foa Foa remained the same, Liz disappeared when they weren’t going to Tribal Council. The next episode looks to be crucial for Liz but, at this time, she appears to be a supernumerary rather than a star-in-waiting. Ashley Last week, I had written that watching Ashley when the heat would be off of her would be her determining factor. There was nothing to watch! The recap could have reminded us of her underdog status versus the biggest villain ever but she wasn’t mentioned. Looking back at her first three episodes with the knowledge we’ve received in this one shows that Ashley’s comments were all focused on the present, not the future. One episode cannot kill her chances at winning but seeing her story completely ignored isn’t a good sign. Mick: During the recap, he was the one shown when Jeff said that Foa Foa was down in morale and the reward challenge was also demoralizing for him. There’s not much going Mick’s way but still we were shown that he could be cocky when things look good. His confessional about tasting chicken already, combined with Dave saying that cockiness is a quick way to the door makes me think that Mick will get overconfident at one point and get voted out. The best thing about his story is that, compared to Russell S. we never heard negative comments when votes didn’t go as he wanted them. It shows that Mick can adapt but it would be nice if he was given the opportunity to tell us about his plans. Jaison: After such a promising episode, Jaison’s story lost all momentum when he told us that going on Survivor was the worst decision in his life. Even if he recovers and this turned out to be simply a moment of weakness, his power-play against Ben looked more like a spur of the moment decision than the beginning of a long term plan. For one thing, his scenes with Russell showed that Jaison never considered it a good idea to remove one of Russell’s allies. The Players Looking at the End Game Erik: Finding the idol, Erik gave himself a role down the line. He plans on staying a while and using the idol around Day 30 or 36. There are two ways this could go wrong: Either Erik forgets that the game lasts 39 days or he just misses out on day 30 and leaves like so many others before him with idol in pocket. Contrary to what he said, someone will know about the idol sooner or later. Add to that his lack of presence in the first 3 episodes and his opposition to “Club Med”; I sense that he will be clotheslined by a surprise vote somewhat before Day 30. Shambo: Shambo will always be a player in danger but there seems to be bigger fish to fry in Galu. Twice, Shambo made references to the jury votes. Making the merge and Foa Foa’s huge appreciation for Shambo could be taken as a hint that she will flip to them but she was talking about having their jury votes all locked up. Telling Erik and John about the idols was her way of earning their votes. Despite going far, I doubt that she can get the jury votes. She is presented as the lovable klutz, the player who means well but always fails. To mix metaphors with scenes from the episode: Shambo is counting her jury votes before they hatch. Russell: All that needs to be said about Russell is contained in the confessional he had after the reward. Nothing but the end game matters to him and he should reach it. I see only 3 remaining questions: Can he get the votes against Natalie if it is a final 2? Is he forgetting that it could be a final 3? If it is, who will join them? Mick, Liz, Ashley or Shambo? Up to now, only Shambo has made a claim to that spot. Natalie: How did she get here? I know that last week she appeared to be playing the wrong way but what if that was the message? On a tribe in turmoil, being liked by everyone as she appeared to be and not ruffling any feathers is very smart game play. She is one of the few that didn’t do anything wrong. Her confessional about beating Russell in the end is the best explanation of what a follower should do according to Game Theory since…Katie Gallagher in Palau. We know how that ended up. However, as I wrote earlier, contrary to Katie, Natalie is well liked in her tribe: Jaison confided in her, Ashley is close to her Russell trusts her and Mick thinks she is good on puzzles. By the way, Mick’s words were a nice way to contradict Russell’s appraisal that Natalie is a “Dumb Blonde”. I don’t know if a player that was so hidden in the first three episodes can make up for lost time but Jeff thought so, at least he did during the immunity challenge. I would absolutely love it if Russell’s comment “you’ve got it made” turned out to be the winning quote! Let’s see if her story grows.
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michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-17-09, 06:50 PM (EST)
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51. "Episode 5 Editing Thoughts:" |
LAST EDITED ON 10-18-09 AT 01:49 AM (EST)Once more, Jeff focused on Russell and Shambo during the recap:
After 8 days, the yellow tribe had been to the first 3 tribal councils…
<Jaison: “I just want to Survive for another day”>
Tensions were high and the only person who wasn’t miserable was Russell…
< “When people fight, I love that. I try to start the fight”>
He now has the hidden immunity idol and a diabolical plan…
< “They are going to be my little puppets”> Over at Galu, Shambo had problems fitting with the rest of her tribe…
<Kelly and Laura sunbathing>
She broke their fishing gear and lost one of their chickens.
<New confessional by Laura: “Shambo is just a complete Gilligan who just messes things up all the time.”>
Shambo’s best friends are on Foa Foa who she bonded with when she visited their camp.
< “There was a huge appreciation for Shambo.”> When Galu finally lost an immunity challenge, Russell wanted to take out Monica…
< “If I’m chief, do I want cutesiness or do I want performance?”>
But most of the others wanted Yasmin to go home…
<Club Med strategizing, notably Dave and Monica>
At Tribal Council, Russell reluctantly sided with the majority…
<Russell and John seen “exchanging” a glance. Russell voted Yasmin while saying “I’m sorry.” >
Yasmin was gone and, by voting for Monica, Shambo further alienated herself from her tribe.
<John and Laura shown sitting next to a defeated Shambo> I felt this episode was about
Suffering the ConsequencesGalu
Night 11 Shambo: (solo) “Wow! We just got back from our first tribal council and Yasmin got voted out. I didn’t expect it, not by a longshot. I’m a little disparaged about the fact that every single person in our team was in an alignment with the exception of myself. I’m absolutely exhausted. Hopefully, I’ll get some good sleep tonight and pick up the pieces tomorrow.” While she went to bed, the other women of Galu rejoiced around the fire.
Laura: “Isn’t it nice here without her?”
Monica: “Yas?”
Laura and Kelly: “Sham.”
Laura: “Sham has a silliness about her that’s socially awkward so it’s like ewww.”
<Kelly and Monica laughing>
This scene had to destroy all the remaining hopes that a fan could have had to see one of these three women win. Note that the editors made sure we knew that the fire around which they were laughing at Shambo had been set up carefully by Shambo. Monica (solo): “So tribal was pretty crazy. Now, in retrospect, I realize that Shambo is the only person here who voted against me. So, that kind of hangs over my head a little bit. I definitely want to continue and take Sham off. She’s my next choice.” Galu
Day 12 Erik (solo): “This ocean is a real bitch… I have never seen an object, inanimate or animate, that was as angry and fickle as this ocean.”
Surprise! An unnecessary scene from a member of Galu other than Shambo. That’s a first! But we’ve seen Erik get hurt before so maybe it’s to set him up for a big hit later on. Will somebody get angrier at Erik than that ocean? I’d almost bet on it. Foa Foa
Day 12 Jaison (The sea was angry that day): “It’s day 12 and we finally came off a win… The ocean is crazy but maybe it’s a bright day for Foa Foa.” Mick read tree mail. Ashley (solo) : “I’m actually excited about the reward challenge…Hopefully, I’m one of the stronger people on my tribe today.” Liz talked to Russell about being worried that Ashley couldn’t handle the challenge.
Russell told Jaison and Mick that Liz was putting Ashley on the chopping block. Russell (with suddenly almost no beard and under a sunny sky as noted by Pepe) : “Liz could be dangerous for me if she’s able to manipulate others to go her way instead of my way. As soon as I see somebody playing that mind game on other people, they’re a huge threat because that’s what this game is all about is mind game. I got to be the only mind game player here.” The Challenge
Yasmin was so meaningless that the only FF who showed a reaction to the news of her elimination was Ashley, the player soon to have the “pleasure” to join Yasmin in Loser Lodge! Fun stuff: - Jeff on Hantz: ‘Not messing around. That’s what you call a Survivor right there”
- Dave and Erik couldn’t have endeared themselves to Foa Foa by psyching out Ashley. 
We didn’t see Natalie compete and it doesn’t look like she had any intention of drinking that “Samoa Smoothie”. I don’t think this happened after the challenge as some sort of dare because John is still seated on the little bench.
A possible explanation why we didn’t see this is that Natalie went up before Ashley, lost a point but it didn’t matter because someone from Galu also lost a point. Maybe Erik choked after his big gulp but that probably would have been shown. Did Jeff take a point away from Monica because she dropped too much sea urchin when she took out her garnish? Or was Russell S. disqualified for walking away from the table without showing he had finished his drink? His mouth was still visibly full as he reached his bench so a protest could have been lodged and accepted. Something boring enough not to be shown. Another possibility is that, with the scoring mostly done in voice-over, the challenge could have been to reach 6 points but, with Ashley and Natalie both failing, it looked better to have a close finish. I think something like this must have happened because Foa Foa wouldn’t have aligned in such a way that Natalie would be their player designated to break the tie. They had to know that, during the tie-breaker, a player has to drink faster than their rival. ETA: Upon further review, it's much simpler: The tribes were playing to 6 with Erik and Natalie going last. There is proof: When Erik is saying that Ashley seems to have already vomited in her glass, we clearly see him sitting behind Monica and on Brett's right. When Jeff declares Galu the winner, that spot on the bench is empty and Erik suddenly comes into the frame from the left side. He had been standing next to Jeff. Back to the show:
Russell sent Shambo to Foa Foa who didn’t think it was fair but Russell wouldn’t budge. “She had to pay for that chicken” he said. Shambo : “I’m pissed…It’s not coming to Foa Foa, it’s missing out on the protein that my body so badly needs. I feel like I got hit by a train today… I love these guys but I wanted that rib-eye…” Foa Foa: Shambo was happy to be with Foa Foa because “there’s no hidden agenda. What you see is what you get.”
<Of course, the camera had to show us Russell suppressing a smile!!!!> Mick : “I was surprised; I thought Ashley would be just fine in today’s challenge but she’s the one that lost it for us…It’s not something that’s going to hurt you, it just tastes bad. She’s not carrying her weight.” Ashley and Natalie commiserated on the beach, Natalie saying: “I don’t think I would have finished… You were like a rock star…I almost threw up” which indicates she didn’t even try drinking her smoothie and felt Ashley did better. Ashley : “I’m very disappointed in myself…”
To Natalie, she said: “You’re helping me get through it.” Natalie : “After the challenge, Ashley felt horrible. She felt like it was her fault but, you know what? We’re kind of like sisters so, we’ve been able to talk each other through that and encourage each other. I just want to make her feel better about it.” Galu : Russell explained once more why he sent Shambo: “It sucked when she lost our chicken. This should clean her slate but she had to suffer the consequences for losing a source of food.” Russell, do you really think anyone blames you for that? Are you so out of touch with how your tribe feels about Shambo? Or are we? Dave (solo): “We’re back from the reward challenge and we have all this food so it was: “Let’s eat!” But chief jumps in and starts messing up the fire.” Russell challenged him; “Dave, you do a lot of talking and not a lot of action.”
Dave: “All you got to do is ask… Was I asked for help? I got to hear it from the chief.”
Russell: “No you don’t. You’re a grown-ass man.”
<Is Rory in Samoa?!!> Dave (continuing his confessional): “I’m not trying to be arrogant. I sometimes patronize people without thinking about it. I’m afraid that I’m going to shoot myself in the foot without knowing what happened.”
Dave offered to shake hands to make peace but Russell simply said it was all good.
<At least do like Big Tom and pretend! It’s funnier that way> Dave (part III): Apparently, nobody here knows how to make fire but me which to me is like: Really?? But, I’m trying to downplay my awesomeness because it speaks for itself. Actions speak louder than words so I don’t need to say anything. If I’m the only guy here that could make fire, it makes me pretty valuable.”
<But he still had to speak. This tells us what will likely happen to Dave before this game is done. It was interesting to note however that Galu has another outsider because the women weren’t on Dave’s side during this argument.> Russell showed a first hint of over-confidence: “They are in trouble. After this, I can take the whole team by myself.” Foa Foa
Day 12
and maybe something from around day 9 Shambo shared the clues to the HII which told everyone it had been found. Liz: “The Immunity Idol was never played even if Ben had it. I know somebody has it and I have a feeling that, if it wasn’t Ben it’s probably Russell. I have a feeling it’s Russell.” Liz confronted Russell with his lie. He told her she was walking on thin ice and could be the next to go.
<As Pepe noted, this scene must have happened earlier because Russell’s beard is much shorter and he’s wearing his swimsuit instead of the grey underwear he had on just before. Notice also how sunny it is. It’s interesting that we are only seeing now that Liz is on Russell’s target list.> Russell (solo) : “Liz, she gets it. She knows what’s going on but why in the world would you threaten me. That’s like slapping me in the face. You don’t think that I will get back at you?” Galu
Night 13 Kelly (solo): “Oh God! Been a lot of rain tonight. Like a torrential downpour and it’s freezing and the blankets are all wet. I’m actually regretting the decision to choose the blankets instead of the tarp right now. It’s the worst night yet, it’s really bad.” Galu
Day 14 Brett (interviewed after Dave had retrieved tree mail): “Last 24 hour, I haven’t really thought about the game, (that explains why we didn’t see anything from Day 13) I’ve just focused on staying dry. Today is a huge challenge. It’s the first immunity challenge after we lost the last one so we really want to reclaim this and keep up our advantage. I’m hoping people will forget about their discomfort and just play hard today.” The Immunity Challenge Shambo had a very cold reception from Galu. Monica explained: “It’s a game. I wouldn’t take it personally. It’s raining and everyone is trying to stay warm.”
<As if she had been wearing mascara all this time, Monica’s cutesiness has been washed out by the rain.> Fun comments: - “Galu is on fire.”
- “Ashley hasn’t made a single shot yet.”
- “Russell struggling to hang on…Russell still fighting. John trying to put Russell out of it. Russell digging deep.”
- “Liz, the last remaining hope for Foa Foa. Liz doing a great job keeping Foa Foa in this. Liz struggling to hang on.”
- Erik: “This girl is insane.”
- Jaison, after Liz didn’t so much drop her basket as she was carried away by it: “Great job, Liz. Seriously, you went to work.” Foa Foa
Day 14 Jaison (solo): “Today is the first day I’m convinced that we might be at a serious disadvantage. This tribe doesn’t look good anymore. Our shelter got rain in it and none of us slept last night. We’re all cold, we’re all tired. Our hands and feet are like crap. This is absolute misery. I’ve never, in my life, been this cold and my hands looked so destroyed and my feet fell so miserable. There’s nothing I want to do more right now than to get out of here.” Confined to the shelter, we had the oddest pre-TC scramble ever, Russell asking if anyone wanted to go home. Liz said no and Ashley added: “I don’t think anybody’s going to volunteer to go home.” Jaison didn’t say a word. The producers still pulled them out of the shelter to record some interviews.
<It actually reminded me of the first two seasons where we rarely heard people talking before TC, just a giving a few interviews.> Ashley: “Normally, before tribal council, we all get to run around and scramble, trying to figure out strategy. Today, we’re all cooped up in the shelter right now and I can’t do much about it without other people hearing. I have no idea what everybody else is going to do. I’m going to vote for Liz. I’ve never had a trust with her since day 1. I always thought there was something weird going on with her. I just don’t trust her.” Liz (solo): “I think Ashley should go. To me, she is the physical weakest link. I don’t think she pulled her weight in the challenges.” Mick: “We have to send somebody home tonight. Because the guys are pretty tight, possibly Liz, possibly Ashley or Natalie. I’ll play it by ear.” Natalie: “We’re all stuck in the shelter, confined in a little ball! I don’t know what everybody’s decision is going to be but I think it’s going to be one of us girls for sure.” Jaison: “I have absolutely no idea what’s going to go down with this vote. My mentality right now is to simply go to tribal council and see what happens.” Russell: “It bums me out that I had to stop my strategy because of the rain. It’s not playing the game like I would regularly play. Liz asked me if I had the immunity idol and she keeps telling me that she don’t trust me. You know, you come at me like that and tell me you don’t trust me; it puts a target on your back. But Liz is stronger than Ashley so I don’t really know which way I will go tonight.” Tribal Council Jaison told Jeff that Survivor was tougher than training for the water-polo national team, (Burnett must have enjoyed thinking he was tougher than a mad Yugoslavian coach)
Ashley said: “It sucks sending someone home but, at least, there’s going to be a fire tonight.”
Mick told Jeff: “It’s pretty tough to scramble…”
<Russell smiled>
Jeff suggested that they could vote for “the girl in the yellow dress”
<Liz smiled>
Natalie: “There’s no way to try to strategize… Before there was always a scramble so I think the weather had a lot to do with it today.”
<Russell listening>
Russell explained: “To me, it depends on who you can trust in this game but the fact of the matter is that I really trust the people around me right now.”
Ashley said she mainly trusted Natalie and Russell who “from the get-go, he’s pulled me under his wing…”
Liz said she trusted everyone and that the hardship “brought us together much more than I anticipated and I’m surprised that I would place so much trust in these guys but I do.”
Mick said: “Maybe we will be a little more organized and a little stronger in challenges.”
Jaison agreed that the vote could make them stronger but “we could be a weaker team because somebody is hurt that their person went.”
Russell said: “It doesn’t make sense and that’s not how you play the game but, with this group, we’re just too tight.”
<That seemed addressed to Natalie and the camera agreed, showing her in close-up>
Russell added: “I don’t think it’s up in the air.” Everyone voted to eliminate Ashley, Natalie shown to be the one hurt while Russell smiled. Jeff asked: “Can you dig deep enough to do what needs to be done to turn this game around?”
<Natalie shown on screen with a determined look as this was said.>
The Story:This episode showed that many players are starting to get on each other’s nerves and that tension is growing. Some have already suffered the consequences for their actions while others are showing us their weaknesses. They will have to suffer the consequences eventually but only 1 way of retribution matters in this game. It’s not missing out on a reward; it’s getting your torch snuffed. Only 1 player is constantly focusing on the game.
Brett: For his first real confessional, Brett tells us he hasn’t been thinking of the game for the last 24 hours. When was he shown thinking of the game? How ironic that we got to hear Brett saying that they had to step up in a challenge he would eventually sit out?
John: The camera tries to tell us that he is one of the leaders in this Club Med of a tribe. The problem is that Survivor isn’t a vacation so he will have to pay for his lack of strategy. Please note, that I don’t mean John isn’t thinking about strategy but that he isn’t given the airtime to tell us about it. Laura: This other possible leader is also ignored even if she looked solid during the IC. All we heard were her reactions during the feast. Kelly: We heard her say that the decision to go for comfort was a bad idea so it showed her as a little more aware of the consequences of her actions. However, showing her laughing at Shambo means she isn’t aware of the dangers that an outsider can create.
Monica: After the editors made us root for Monica over Yasmin, they quickly changed course to make sure we didn’t see her as a sweetheart. Her cold-bloodedness towards Shambo exemplified Galu’s pettiness and lack of foresight. She will have to pay for that bad treatment.
Russell S.: From being afraid of making waves, Russell now shows some arrogance and was quick to jump all over Dave. The game and his role in the tribe are getting to Russell, affecting his behaviour. Erik: As I wrote after his ocean scene, Erik is set up to suffer the consequences of the game’s changing tides. Nothing was made about Erik wanting to vote out Monica so his opinion on the game isn’t important.
Dave: Danger Dave or Dumb Dave? I think it bodes well for Dave that he was the one telling us that he can be arrogant at times and that it could cost him instead of someone else having a confessional to put him down. Galu probably will forget to make him pay but his mouth will get him in trouble later on down the road. Let’s remember that Dave looked like an outsider during that scene so maybe he jumps ship along with Shambo. Up to now, there hasn’t been a connection between those two or between Dave and Foa Foa but I’d keep an eye on that. Jaison: He’s continuing to suffer the consequences of making the worst decision of his life but I don’t think it leads to Jaison quitting. It seemed too convenient to hear him say he was miserable right before Russell asked for a volunteer to go home. Jaison was used to tell us Survivor is real and is extremely tough. Besides the Ben incident, that has been his story up to now. His post IC confessional, “I have absolutely no idea what’s going to go down with this vote” clearly showed that Jaison isn’t playing the mind game and we heard that this game was all about mind game.
Mick: If Survivor is playing the mind games then this isn’t for Mick. Playing it by ear and not being able to decide between Liz, Ashley or Natalie are not the signs of a strong strategist. Hoping for the tribe to be a little more organized after 14 days under his leadership is revealing. Mick has a very consistent edit and often that is a good sign but he still appears to be completely inadequate for this game which is a bad way to present a winner. Granted; no one has blamed Mick for the tribe’s inadequacies but isn’t it implied? Liz: She was the star of this episode. We’ve had a second remark from a Galu member on her physical strength. Could it be a sign that she wins a crucial challenge down the road or is it simply giving a determined player their due?
There seemed to have been too much made of Liz going after Russell for her not to give us a confessional after the confrontation. She never got to tell us what she would do about Russell’s threats. Also, the hidden immunity talk was enough to set the target on her back so why did we have to hear her throwing Ashley under the bus before the RC? In an episode where pettiness was shown has a bad trait that could be seen as a negative portrayal for Liz. Shambo: Does she have a clean slate as Russell suggested? Monica didn’t seem to think so! Does the audience like this bumbling-fumbling Survivor fool? I suggest that the intent of her edit is to show that she isn’t treated totally unfairly but that there is an unsavoury level of disdain amongst the “Beautiful People Alliance”. Shambo should make them pay but she could pay in return for being unable to see the hidden agenda in Foa Foa. One player found her comment amusing.
This season really seems to come down to two polar opposites, both in personality and in edit: Russell and Natalie. Natalie: In a jury decision against the biggest villain of all time, this very likable woman should have no problems getting the votes. However, Natalie’s edit suffers from her absence in the first 3 episodes, particularly in the opening segment. On the other hand, if she had been shown in those episodes when she wasn’t really involved in the action, we’d have too much of an easy call. In this episode, we saw two important scenes:
- With her “sister” Ashley, we saw how good she is in the social game.
- With her vote, we saw that she could do what Russell feared she couldn’t do: Voting out her friends. The scene that we didn’t see could also be important. If Natalie competed in that gross food challenge and failed as it appears, then we were not meant to see Natalie fail. A winner always has manipulated scenes to make them look good. Of course, we probably will never know what really happened. Russell: Speaking of manipulated scene, Russell changed from his underwear to his swimsuit, from almost no beard to a full, dark beard and from rain to sunshine in a single segment. The question could be whether the manipulation was made so that Liz looks like a mind game player or whether it was done to push Russell’s story? Because Liz didn’t tell us she’d have to do something about Russell, I think this manipulation was part of his story more so than hers. It was used to parallel what he did to Marisa and Betsy. My interpretation is this: The idol talk probably happened soon after Russell found it. Therefore, Liz has survived his wrath for a while but we see it as if only the rain prevented him from playing the way he would regularly play it. We don’t see that he has once more failed to get his way. He can still be presented as the puppet master even if the strings aren’t so firmly in his hands. To me, that is the crux of Russell’s edit: When he has acted as a villain, the scenes have been straightforward. When he has appeared as a smart player, we have had manipulated scenes to make him look good. Natalie was shown as the one challenged by Jeff to dig deep after the TC but we heard that Russell was digging deep during the challenge. I’m really starting to think that, unless Natalie’s social game is what prevents him from getting the votes; Russell Hantz will win Survivor Samoa.
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Georjanna 1316 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson"
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10-18-09, 03:17 AM (EST)
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52. "RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts:" |
LAST EDITED ON 10-18-09 AT 04:11 AM (EST)
Michel,
Once again, thank you for shining a spotlight on all the things that I never see until you illuminate them for me. So, I wonder if you could take a few moments and tell me what you think of a Confessional that you've omitted from your analysis of this Episode: the one containing Mick's thoughts on his counterpart's decision to deny Shambo a reward that she had a great deal to do with winning? Because you've said of Mick: If Survivor is playing the mind games then this isn’t for Mick. Playing it by ear and not being able to decide between Liz, Ashley or Natalie are not the signs of a strong strategist. Hoping for the tribe to be a little more organized after 14 days under his leadership is revealing. Mick has a very consistent edit and often that is a good sign but he still appears to be completely inadequate for this game which is a bad way to present a winner. Granted; no one has blamed Mick for the tribe’s inadequacies but isn’t it implied? And I thought that it was significant that the lone - See! You've taught me that there had to be more than one! - diagnosis of that decision was given to him. I was impressed by the length of the interview and by the fact that it concluded with a recognition that Russell's decision may have been a strategically justifiable one. I also thought it was significant that - bottom line - although his criteria for choosing the sacrificial victim of his 'leadership' would have been different, his myopic thought process would have been a mirror of Russell's: he would have deprived one of his charges of the Reward, rather than push himself back from the table. But, if the Confessional was significant to Mick's edit, I'll be darned if I know what it signified. So, here I am ... G ETA: It suddenly occurs to me that this 'Confessional' was, instead, an Insider clip. So, I guess that whatever importance it may have lies in its omission from the Episode? ETA: I hope you can 'see' my red face. I should have know that you don't omit anything in an Episode that is even - potentially - significant.
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michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-18-09, 11:41 AM (EST)
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55. "RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts:" |
LAST EDITED ON 10-18-09 AT 11:43 AM (EST)Thanks Georgianna for reading my ramblings. I must admit you had me worried for a while, wondering if I had fell asleep during the program, if my tape had malfunctioned or if the Canadian version had been different than the American one somehow!! Insider clips may have their importance but I believe the winner's story is contained in what is shown. Mick has a more conventional edit but I can't help but feel that Hantz would destroy him with one sentence, whether in his jury question or, more likely, his opening statement: "Mick didn't lead anything, he barely knew what was going on." That's what Mick's edit is telling me.
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Georjanna 1316 desperate attention whore postings
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10-19-09, 02:08 AM (EST)
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64. "RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts:" |
LAST EDITED ON 10-19-09 AT 04:57 PM (EST)Michel, I'm really sorry. I thought about deleting the whole thing and starting over when I realized my mistake, but took the lazy way out instead. And it would have been helpful if I had put the ETAs at the top of the post rather than at the bottom. So, I do appreciate your reply. And I'll disagree only with your conclusion that Russell would be able to destroy the professional healer with the sentence "Mick didn't lead anything, he barely knew what was going on." Because, while the 'leadership' charge might - so long as Russell didn't make the critical mistake of trying to claim that mantle for himself - find its mark with a Jury, I think that an attempt to paint Mick as unaware of "what was going on" would be like knotting the noose for your hangman. And that's because I think that, every now and then, JP gets it right about a contestant at the beginning of a Season's filming and that his assessment of Mick ... "You know what, I don't trust Mick. I really don't. I think Mick is a guy who's a good looking guy, smart guy, probably a bit of privilege. Mick's the kind of guy who could manipulate people and get them to do what he wants and then not realize that he doesn't care about them as much as he's pretending to. I think Mick is probably a pretty good player. I bet he's played quite a few people." ... was one of those times. So, I think that if Russell has an Achilles heel in this Game, it is his conviction that he is the only con artist in Samoa. And there are, by my count, three. So far ... Note: My personal favorite this Season is Erik. And he doesn't have a prayer. Because this is a Season with a taste for larceny and despite his childhood dream, I don't think that Erik could con his way out of a parking ticket with four flat tires on his car and a hundred-dollar bill in his palm. G
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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10-18-09, 06:26 AM (EST)
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53. "RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts:" |
I tend to read less into the details of everything. That is my style. I let it all sink in and at the end I have a synthesized impression.My impression this episode was that Liz just got her story arc and she is toast soon, just like Marisa, Betsy, and Ashley. It's been a very consistent pattern this season, to bump up the story of those who didn't make the "big character" list so that they are somewhat developed when bumped off. The reason I wouldn't vote for Liz this last week is she didn't have enough previous episode story, and I hoped she would be long term, but I think this was the kiss of death. After we were allowed to imagine she might have secret alliances, I think we were shown that she has nothing keeping her other than her strength in challenges and a work ethic. Her encounter with Russell did not make her look as smart as she is. She made a big mistake, like the women before her. If she had come out of that appearing to have strategy I would have hope for her, but she did not. Her one attempt to do a little playing was trumped by RussHell, and I think she will lose to him. As for Mick, true he is not edited to be the hero alpha male of the season. There doesn't seem to be one. Jaison could be but he cries too much. However, I don't discount Mick. Aras wasn't showing all that much early in the game, and there has been little that Mick can do to further himself other than to stay on the right side of the votes - which he has done very well. Not once has he made the boot radar, and I view that as an accomplishment. I think the whole leader twist is silly, and I do not critique Mick for being a weak leader. Russell S is making an Ass out of himself taking his role too seriously, so I think Mick looks good in comparison. Re the Galu women, while I don't think one wins, I cannot agree with the idea that their behavior disqualifies them:
<Kelly and Monica laughing>
This scene had to destroy all the remaining hopes that a fan could have had to see one of these three women win. I remember very well that Jenna and Heidi were snottier and more clicquish than anything we've seen here, for much of S6. Only in the last 4-5 episodes did Jenna emerge as a Survivor, after she got sick, gave her immunity to Heidi, and pulled off the last challenges. I am not of the viewpoint that Survivor editors whitewash the sins of the winners. Jenna was shown as a petty spoiled brat most of the game. However, she was a highly VISIBLE brat (boy was she visible). I feel like long term character development has really suffered this season. We have one big character from Galu, Shambo. The Evil One from Foa Foa. And guess what, they were the two talking and talked about in the opening scene in the boats. It seems to me that the less we know about the minor players right now, the better for their longevity, because with a large cast they are developing them in order. Of Galu, Russell S has a big story, so he is ripe to go. Erik has a big story. Dave is starting to emerge. John has dropped off the radar, which seems to me a good thing for John over the other guys. Monica has the biggest presence of the women, but she had to be made prominent because she came on the boot radar, so let's see if she fades back into the background. As for the silent ones, I think they will be developed as their turn draws near, their turn to be booted. Their story is post-merge, but not the story of the season. I do not think they are doomed to be inconsequential because they are hidden now. Soon enough, the pre-merge people will fade from memory and these people we don't know will be the story. But because they were hidden at the beginning and not introduced, I think they are jurors, not finalists. That leaves us to conclude, I think, that the end game players were being developed pre-merge almost without effort, in that their tribe kept losing, so they got lots of facetime. Shambo is the only one who's gotten a huge amount of face time that is largely gratuitous to the plot. Honestly though, I don't know who would vote for her to win, so she seems to function as the big character who is audience favorite. Shambo is probably the last Galu standing, as was Erinn. Shannon reminds me of Twila, and Twila managed to get some good game played when she turned. She had an awkward beginning. But she made enemies by turning, and Shambo has the same dilemma. Re Natalie, who is shaping up as the Evil One's chosen female that he will protect, it's real hard for me to see her winning even if she is subtly shown to be playing well. She hasn't got much more visibility than Debbie did last season. She is not shown to play badly, and neither did Debbie (until the end), but for a woman to beat men in the Final 3 in this game, I think they need to be shown playing harder. In 18 seasons, there have only been three women who went up against a man on the jury and won. Tina, Jenna, and Amber. Although Tina was hidden in Ep 1, I had Tina picked to win early, I think from her line "let the games begin." She was sneaky and not at all invisible. Amber in ASS was right there from Ep 1, playing along with Rob. Anyway, that vote was an atypical situation, all skewed by friendships outside the game and emotional votes. Jenna M was the head of the cool girls and had tons of face (and boob) time, and was up against an awkward non-strategist, Matt. Conclusion: women who manage to beat men before the jury have to be developed. EPM and Probst are both sexist, even if they don't admit it. Men are the "natural" dominators, so a woman who accomplishes beating a man really really played, in their world, and that story has to be told. A woman beating a woman is not always developed as an individual. The story there is more, how did the women as a group do in the men? Even with Parvati and Amanda, who were both strong and not UTR, the end story was mostly about how the sirens/black widows/witches did in the hapless males. Of the women who went up against men and did not win, several were UTR edits much like Natalie, I would sort of count Kelly W for early in the game, before she began winning immunities and feuding with Sue, but S1 is atypical. Kim J in Africa, Katie G in Palau, Danielle in PEI, Becky in the Cooks, Cassandra in Fiji, Susie in Gabon. All UTR, and did not win. There's lots of precedent for someone as hidden as Natalie to get to the end. The only UTR women who have won went against another woman. Vee, Sandra, Danni. Each of these went up against someone with a lot of facetime - Neleh, Lil, Stephenie. Conclusion, if Natalie were to end up against a woman she has a shot, otherwise not. She might ALMOST win against a man or two men, but close doesn't count. Look at Susie. One vote short of the win and invisible most of the season. I would be shocked if RussHell weren't in the F3 (I expect F3 with this large a cast and the fact they went F2 in Tocantins, and they like to keep people on their toes.) One of the popular Galu women is not winning, with their edit, but considering the jury make-up they would have had a good shot, so by inference they must be eliminated. Shambo is I think going to be in that position where she never has the numbers and is at the mercy of her alliance, and will be cut at some point like Taj. So I think Natalie will be up against a man, maybe two. I had great hopes for Liz, but I cannot see her coming back from that hole she dug herself this last time, which means of course that Nat is the last FF woman standing. michel thinks she should get the votes, but I don't see the men voting for her (and I count Shambo as a guy vote), not for Sole Survivor. Amanda was sweet and played a lovely social game, but she wasn't the image of a cutthroat player who outwitted, and Nat won't be either. There is always the chance that RussHell, Mick, and Jaison could get to the end together, but we have seen so much story about RussHell's bimbo alliance that I think it will turn out that the Ep 1 emphasis on the DBA was there because it happened. Ep 1 was RussHell's story and I more than half expect him to win, and have since Ep 1. (see my addendum post). I wouldn't have thought he could get the votes, but so far he seems to have a sort of snake charmer effect on those who stick around. I guess we'll see after the merge if they really hate his guts too much to vote for him. In that case we will see a weaker player win, but RussHell will still be the player of the season, kind of like Boston Rob.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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10-18-09, 06:42 AM (EST)
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54. "RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts:" |
Side note:
I'm not so sure that scene with Liz and RussHell was manipulated the way others think. I watched his beard hair and it looked heavy to me. Shorts can be changed. We know he did not have the swim shorts until Ep 3.We have heard from Ashley that the women did think Ben had the idol (maybe because he made a fake one and knew where to put it?). If Liz thought Ben had the idol she would not have been confronting RussHell for lying. The topic did come up with Shambo, and RussHell made a denial, and maybe it didn't ring true, so the timing of the confrontation seemed natural enough. There was sun the day of the RC when Shambo came over. The rain was the next two days. Anyway, I think Liz had recently challenged him, because we did see in his confessional before TC that he had at that point veered away from Ashley towards Liz, except for the challenge strength. He doesn't want to lose more challenges (see the Insider clips where he is now going to provide for them instead of sabotaging.) He was mad at Liz in Ep 5, and I do think that was a new development. At earliest, in the Ep 4 cycle when they didn't need to show it. Point being, I don't think it was misdirection, any more than his encounter with Betsy or Marisa ... I think it is very much to the point. Besides which, if they lose again, Liz is going home. RussHell is not voting Nat, and Mick and Jaison aren't voting against each other, so there's only one target they can agree on. Bye Liz.
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michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings
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10-18-09, 12:05 PM (EST)
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56. "RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts:" |
LAST EDITED ON 10-18-09 AT 12:09 PM (EST)Thanks for your comments OutFrontGirl. I agree with most of your analysis, especially regarding Liz. We'll see about Mick but, for now as I just wrote to Georgianna, I don't see it. Re: The girls being eliminated, I did say that the campfire scene had to be the clincher, not the whole case against them. Jenna and Heidi were bratty for sure but not invisible like Kelly and Laura have been.
(Even Shawna was more visible than Monica has been but that was the good old days) And:
"Amanda was sweet and played a lovely social game" That is what the editing made us think so that we would have doubts about Todd's chances but you must remember Peih Gee's jury comments. Amanda barely talked to anyone and they thought she was phoney. Natalie, on the other hand, is everyone's friend (Insider clips) but we are not really shown her social game except in the last episode with Ashley. That can be very significant. PS: If Ashley had a jury vote, would she vote Natalie or Russell? Very shaky comparison, I know, but maybe the Galu Club Med will be more in her frame of mind than China's jury.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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10-18-09, 06:57 PM (EST)
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59. "RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts:" |
>>>"Amanda was sweet and played a lovely social game"
That is what the editing made us think so that we would have doubts about Todd's chances but you must remember Peih Gee's jury comments. Amanda barely talked to anyone and they thought she was phoney. >>>Incidentally, I think Natalie has a better chance to win that Amanda did in China. She's talked more to people than Amanda did in China, as you noted. Yes. I am not talking about Natalie's actual chance that she had in the game. I'm talking about her edit, which is put together based on how the game turned out. I'm saying that IF she had won against two men, based on prior editing, they would not hide her story like this. They have only hidden the story on female winners who went up against other women, and not with all of them. Re Amanda, all I'm talking about is her edit, not what we discovered was the reality. Actually she is not particularly relevant to the point I was making, as she went up against a man but didn't win. I only mentioned her because I'd gone over the rest of the list and I didn't want to omit her. >>>Natalie, on the other hand, is everyone's friend (Insider clips) but we are not really shown her social game except in the last episode with Ashley. That can be very significant. That's why I compared her to Debbie. Debbie was very low visibility in spite of playing a great social game, but as that social game didn't win the season for her, we didn't see it. My main point about Natalie is that if she wins against Russell (or Mick, or Jaison), she will have accomplished what only three have done before -- Tina, Jenna, Amber, and she should not be given the invisible edit unless she, like Becky, Cassandra and Susie, didn't pull off the votes. As far as her chances of getting votes is concerned, I started to write something on that, but I think it is a little early to talk about that. michel tends to look at subtle indicators, and I have much appreciation of the ability to see subtleties. For instance, when discussing great literature, I'm all about the subtle effects. I am just not convinced that these Survivor editors are all that subtle.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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10-18-09, 08:21 PM (EST)
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61. "RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts:" |
LAST EDITED ON 10-18-09 AT 08:31 PM (EST)Well, no two seasons are just alike.
I consider Natalie's absence extreme considering that almost all the focus has been on her ever-dwindling tribe. Also, she got no confessional whatsoever in Ep 1, which I doubt has been done for the winner since Tina. And EPM edited that season. I agree that Natalie gave a good confessional there, in that she mentioned the end game. But who brought up end game? Russell. He is the one telling people to look all the way down the road and make a plan. Planning to be nice to people is not a game plan. That confessional did not earn my respect for Natalie. I reacted to it with 'honey, this game is about playing hard and getting your hands dirty. People who let other people do their dirty work and don't strategize do not get awarded the million because they were friendly." I'm trying to think of someone who won on social game alone, and I can't. Anyone? ETA, I wasn't going to talk about vote scenarios, but since there is spec about Nat's game, I grant that Laura, Monica, Kelly, and maybe Brett are clueless enough to vote for the pretty young friendly player. I would hope that Erik, Dave, John, and Shambo look at the game play. Of the Foa Foa who could be in the mix, I think they will be men because Liz's future looks stormy. If the finalists are Foa Foa, only one FF is a likely juror, and I suppose it depends a bit on whether there's a backstab egregious enough to throw the vote to the person who is clearly not the best strategist or competitor. I suppose Natalie could win if the "gameplayer" contingent of the jury splits its vote and the 90210 group goes with Natalie. That could happen. But if it did, they are doing a lousy job of setting up the winner, IMHO.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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10-18-09, 11:22 PM (EST)
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63. "RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts:" |
OK, not extreme.
The four who didn't get Ep 1 confessionals were Yasmin, Kelly, Laura, Natalie,I don't think either Vee or Ethan won because they played a great social game as Natalie plans to do. Vee did not win so much as Neleh lost because most of the bitter Rotu were mad that she flipped the game. Vee was simply the only alternative vote. In a tribe that was being picked off, she was fortunate to have big targets, Mariano and Sean, ahead of her. Of the Ethan F2, it is is Kim Johnson who relied entirely on social game. Ethan had a core alliance that stuck together, was very athletic, and he and Lex ran the game. Of the two finalists, Ethan was without question more of a player, and he won, what, 6-1? 5-2? They were both nice people, but Kim for sure had the clean hands of the two. At TC, Ethan took a fair amount of heat for trying to come off as the nice guy when he had not been all that nice, but ultimately the jury was not going to give the million to Kim because all she did was to ride her alliance and be a nice lady. Still open to candidates though.
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michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings
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10-19-09, 05:56 PM (EST)
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68. "RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts:" |
I don't want to turn this into a winners ranking (there's enough of that in Fanatics!) but Lex was the Boran thinker, Ethan the follower. If Ethan ran the game with Lex then he did a terrible job because Boran was as bad as Timbira. It simply that Samburu was even worse. Physically, Ethan was rather disappointing."--- did not win so much as --- lost because most of the bitter --- were mad that --- flipped the game." I copied your sentence to show that, if you replace Vee with Natalie, Neleh with Russell and Shambo and Rotu with jury, the same could apply. Anyway, I consider that social game is a huge part of the strategic game. Even Brian had no shot at making his strategy work if Ted, Jan, Helen and Clay didn't consider him a friend first. The cliché: "I'm not here to make friends" is completely wrong. You need friends. You also need to break friends and we saw that Natalie could do just that.
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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
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10-19-09, 04:01 PM (EST)
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65. "RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts:" |
My main point about Natalie is that if she wins against Russell (or Mick, or Jaison), she will have accomplished what only three have done before -- Tina, Jenna, Amber, and she should not be given the invisible edit unless she, like Becky, Cassandra and Susie, didn't pull off the votes.I sense, though, that they've decided to make RussMole the whole show at Foa Foa (and in general) for as long as possible -- whether he actually wins or not is beside the point. So for now, all we get is: someone acts against RussMole, then in short order they're booted. RussMole is supposed to appear unassailable. If Natalie and RussMole were in the finals and Natalie did win, I don't think they'd necessarily set her up with a storyline from the get-go that might telegraph even in subtle ways that she could be a contender. For now at least, they don't want any hint that RussMole's authority might not actually prevail. But maybe Natalie *could* be a surprise vanquisher in the end.
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10-19-09, 04:27 PM (EST)
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66. "RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts:" |
I agree BR. I think we need to wait and see how and if RussHell's edit changes after the merge. Is he still the puppetmaster? Is he getting his hands dirty? Does Galu seem to like him and trust him? When he gets rid of someone now, they go off to Ponderosa and he doesn't have to deal with them again. After the merge, those people he targets will be jury. I think there's still a lot of story to be told around Russhell and it could go either direction.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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10-19-09, 04:51 PM (EST)
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67. "RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts:" |
I agree that they've made Russell the big story and that he can still lose. However, I think it would have been fairly easy to introduce Natalie as much as Ashley and Liz without us saying, OMG, she wins.Rob Mariano was a huge character in ASS, and they did edit Amber low key, but we did get to hear more of Amber's thoughts at the beginning, even though they had three tribes of "stars" to cover. They have made Natalie as mysterious as Laura and Kelly - considering four episodes of post TC coverage at her tribe, that is noticeable. However, that wouldn't concern me if they hadn't also failed to introduce her properly in Ep 1. I don't think she is the winner. I think a man wins this season. But we shall see. I suspect there isn't enough there there for them to maintain our curiosity about her if they showed us more.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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10-19-09, 06:35 PM (EST)
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70. "RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts:" |
Yes, it is nice to see you guys! I think the positive part of Natalie's edit justifies making it to a F3 situation. That's a huge accomplishment. I just question her as a winner. And I really do see her edit with Russell as rather similar to Becky and Yul, although there is not the brother and sister shared ethnicity connection. (But both are from the South.) Yul told Becky he meant to take her to F2, and he did. No doubt she helped him strategize along the way, as Becky is a sharp attorney, but that was never really shown. There was an Insider clip from Ep 2 where Laura is talking about tackling "that Georgia peach" with relish, saying she had been waiting for the chance. Laura sounded like quite the Tita there. (A Tita is a tough chick in Hawai'i, one that you don't mess with). It didn't sound like she cares for Natalie's more delicate persona. I am not convinced the Galu women will bond with Natalie. The Galu women have been comparing themselves to the Foa Foa women from the get-go, and are proud of being stronger and tougher. Honestly, there seems to be a lot of regional loyalty this season. Thank you very much casting. I could see the 90210 crowd voting for Mick, if he makes it, over Natalie. But now back to the edit ...
Mick was one of the only nominees for leader to get a confessional at the start of Ep 1, as I noted in my first post. His opening wasn't as strong as Russell's, but it was enough for him to qualify as a contender in my mind.
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CTgirl 8013 desperate attention whore postings
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10-22-09, 06:41 PM (EST)
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71. "RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts:" |
It's funny that you made that statement about Mick, OFG, because I had already decided to rewatch the premiere and look specifically for how much attention Natalie and Mick got. I'll put my impressions at the bottom so they don't get lost along with a few from this episode.
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CTgirl 8013 desperate attention whore postings
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10-22-09, 07:40 PM (EST)
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74. "RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts:" |
Oops, I guess my other post wasn’t that far up after all! In light of our discussion about Foa Foa members that could possibly beat RussHell, I decided to rewatch the first episode. In general, the confessionals split up in the following ways. I won’t repeat everything because michel has already done a good job outlining the episode and OFG added comments about the timing of early confessionals. Its good timing because I feel like the first broad arc of storytelling is almost done. I think the editing this season will be divided between a Part 1 (the fall of Foa Foa) and a Part 2 (the implosion of Galu and the rise of Foa Foa). The following stories were put in place by the survivors confessionals:
Pre-Merge:
Set-up early boots/targets: Marisa, Betsy, Monica, Ben, Ashley, Russell S.
Set-up race story: Liz, Jaison, Mike
Set up some future conflict between Erik, Dave and John (possibly the big merge story that shows how Galu self-implodes)
Long-Term Stories:
Shambo (came across much more positively to me than she did in recent episodes)
Leadership (Mick) vs. Trust (RussHell) (After I watched this, I reread everyone’s comments about the first episode. Michel commented on that the theme was honesty vs. lies. He had a similar although slightly different take.) First Mick talks about leadership in the operating room, then Marisa comments, “we won that reward because Mick made good choices on all levels.” Her statement made me realize that we’ve never heard anyone knock Mick for his leadership picks. I know michel thinks its self-evident, but the editors not once had anyone say anything bad about Mick as leader. Mick was happy to let Ben take over as leader and “paint his own target.” Now five episodes later, compare that with RusSwell’s edit as leader and Mick looks pretty good. RusSwell was right, the leader is the tallest nail, and RusSwell is losing control of his tribe to the Club Med Clique. In the first episode, we see Russhell’s tirade about how he wants to be puppet master and how he confesses that he should be the first boot. He sabotaged his own team! Contrast that with Natalie’s blind faith in trusting him (even with Betsy’s warning). The juxtaposition of scenes is funny now knowing everyone’s characters. She comes off as very naïve. Add to that she had no confessional and I think you’re looking at a sweetheart F4 or silent F3 edit. I am not going to go out on a limb and say that RussHell wins or doesn’t. But Mick had enough presence in the first episode that he could be a dark horse like Bob or Danni. I said earlier to see if Russhell’s edit changes after the merge. I want to amend that to see if Mick’s edit changes. I would not dismiss his chances of winning. As for Galu, I loved michel’s comment that Monica, “exemplified Galu’s pettiness and lack of foresight.” Watching episode one again, knowing that John is well-liked and not a boot candidate, brings out this little nugget: John tried to get them to think first and then act when building the shelter. Even Shambo just wanted action. What a beautiful way to foreshadow the way this tribe behaves post merge! Galu is too busy worrying about being in with the “in crowd,” that they are not going to know what hit them. Jeff even foreshadowed what might happen at Yasmin’s tribal council when he said to Dave, “make big moves too soon, you will destroy your tribe.” The non-too-subtle editing has made it obvious that Shambo doesn’t fit in. But Shambo is as guilty as her tribemates of not playing the game. She shared her clues with FF and even in episode 4 was heard yelling twice, “you’re ahead, take your time” (in the IC that they lost!) Michel, I think IF Mick is the winner things will shift and we'll hear him talking about RussHell. He's managed to come back from backing the wrong boot and is pretty tight with his tribe. I just had a bad taste regarding RussHell's actions in the first show. He sabotaged his own tribe and that's the reason they're in such dire straits now. But snake charmers have won before, so I wouldn't be surprised with it either. I just don't think we should discount Mick yet. Oh, and FTR, my thoughts when I was watching the show, the gross food challenge was to 6 points and they edited to look like it was to 5 points (FWIW!)
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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10-23-09, 03:53 AM (EST)
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75. "RE: Episode 5 Editing Thoughts:" |
Excellent analysis, CT.
I like the Fall and Rise arc.
Although I don't want to do an "I agree with you agreeing with me" post, these are some good perceptions about Mick you are adding. I think he was given "enough" in Ep 1 to go the distance.If we look at the last two seasons, how the successful athletic white male professional was edited (Marcus, Brendan), we see that they were pumped up a whole lot pre-merge, and both became the first juror, and were made to look bad for being cocky and making assumptions. In contrast, Mick has not been cocky other than saying stuff to build morale. He has not made assumptions. He has not formed an Onion or Exile Island alliance that is ready to go down in flames. He's edited as cautious, self-examining, wary of what he says to others, politic to everyone. Probst said he would blindside and get blindsided. Well, I wonder if Probst just has too much envy of good-locking doctors. He seems to prefer attorneys, maybe because they are rarely idolized for their profession. He could be wrong on this one. In sum, I think it bodes better for Mick that he's a merge target type and has not been fully developed than the editing of Marcus and Brendan. I think Erik is the one who's way too happy about how his game is going, when it doesn't appear that he's giving enough thought on how to get to the end. Dominant tribe syndrome, I guess. I bet Erik would be be a different character if he were an underdog. (I do like Erik! I liked Marcus and Brendan a lot!) Re Shambo, as you say, her first episode star turn at the very beginning, has been nothing but undermined since they first hit their beach. Her edit is setting her up to bumble into success and be saved by luck.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-23-09, 05:15 AM (EST)
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76. "Ep 6 editing thoughts" |
LAST EDITED ON 10-23-09 AT 06:34 AM (EST)As per usual, I am writing late, after the show, and I won't go over the whole episode in sequence. I'll do an overview, and go through he remaining players instead. This episode had LOTS of nature shots. Samoa was the Big Kahuna this episode. Samoa kicked their asses. Lots of face time for Samoa. Two prolonged moments of Samoa's underwater world. We saw that beneath the surface, there is lots of life. We saw a sea turtle steadily making its way. We broke the surface into a turbulent world full of choppy water, rain, misery. Later, there was a gorgeous rainbow, which is supposed to be a sign the bad times are over. However, Samoa is a fickle mother and the rain returned at Tribal Council. Foa Foa Natalie She had a GREAT moment tonight.
She asks if they could have won (the challenge), and by implication had a chance to come back in their quest to win the game. Jaison, Mr. "if I didn't have bad luck I wouldn't have no luck at all" -- says it seems the stars are aligned against them, he doesn't seen how any of them can very far at all, and the whole tribe will be done by Day 21, at the rate it's going. (That's in six days, so that's rather catastrophic thinking, as even with straight Pagonging they have 10-12 days before they're out of their misery.) Natalie replies:
I think it can be done. I think it can be done. (camera extreme close-up on her face, nicely lit, looking out into the distance, while Jaison lies on his side on his elbow. He is down, while she is up.)
She softly adds, if a couple people flip over there ... This affirmation and her lack of agitation in these conditions that are bringing strong man Jaison down to the brink of giving up, really leapt off the screen for me, as in WHOA! NATALIE! Once again, she and Russell are the two who are looking at end game through strategy. However, as good as this moment was, Natalie left her whole fate at TC to Russell. He went off to swing the votes. Liz tried, and Mick couldn't even look her in the eye, so I think maybe Russell had already approached him? In Guatemala, Danni was very UTR, like Natalie, but Danni didn't let other people do the negotiating for her. I don't like that Natalie lets herself be taken care of. That was a great moment for her, that would seem to indicate longevity and beating the odds. Not necessarily a win. Russell
This episode split the narration of the hardship between the three men on Foa Foa. Russell stood out for not letting the conditions get him down. As manufactured as confessionals can be for TV, he didn't look miserable. He chopped the wood. I mean, who didn't feel what he expressed when he talked about how none of the others would get out of the shelter to try to make the next night less miserable? He was shown with papayas. I also loved his idea of getting in the water. It was neat. In an episode with a lot of footage showing people trying to crawl back into the womb, or womblike spaces, he sought out the water immersion technique. He pointed out there's no harm in getting wet if you're already soaked. It was sort of a baptismal moment, rebirthing. Didn't work for Jaison, who just went off and whinged some more. I thought the episode was very positive for Russell. It showed a shift towards him taking care of the group, or trying. Not that he's a philanthropist there, but no longer a saboteur. Note that he did everything RussellS did in terms of working in the rain while the tribe huddled, but no one praised him (or was shown). Not surprising, as he is the villain and the other Russell was this ep's martyr. But still, he should get some respect. Also, I don't know if it means anything, but in the underwater shots, we saw that the life forms IN the water are not bothered by what goes, none of the chop matters. Russell is a bit like that sea turtle, just making his way, foraging. Jaison
Thinks too much about fate and the forces that are guiding the game. He surrenders to the irresistable forces that give and then cruelly take away. He can't pull his head out of philosophy and put it firmly into the game. He's the Hamlet of Foa Foa. If they had skulls out there, he would be brooding over one. Liz
Her story was wrapped up, and then she got a reprieve. But we know she is gone if they go back to TC. No ifs ands buts, toast. And she knows it. There have been people in her position who have been saved, but there was an air of finality about her appearance this time. Mick
Mick, like Jaison, was just trying to beat the weather. He wasn't taking it as a curse though. He was shown adapting. He found a way to maximize the body heat he created and minimize rain. He realized it's pointless to wear a wet shirt (as did Russell). He laughed a little. He came off as a likable guy in a sucky situation. He doesn't want to quit but he'll admit that Ashley's fate seemed enviable. I bet he's not the only one thinking of Ashley, warm and dry, pigging out at Ponderosa. All in all, Mick came off as a guy who isn't nearly as tough as Russell, but adaptable. GALU I will not say much about Russell, as he is gone. He got a heroic exit. We did see that his tribe didn't approve of him pushing himself too hard. They saw it wasn't good and it wasn't their choice. OTOH, none of them assisted him! Losers. We got our best look yet at Galu alliances tonight. I had questioned where Brett was at, and still do to some extent as he was very quiet, but he did agree to go men vs. women. Shambo will be the 5th man. Laura and Monica are an item, and Kelly is there somewhere. (btw, Kelly cuddles with Brett.) It appears now that we were set up with the Erik and Dave diss John comments. That was early alpha male posturing, but now these three very bright guys are working well together. It appears Galu will fracture on gender lines, not alpha male competition. Although, we have been set up with the scene of John watching Erik find the idol, for John to possibly blindside Erik. Whether or no, there's still a gender division in this tribe. Interestingly, we STILL get nothing from inside the heads of the female alliance stating what they are up to. We see they are an alliance from the outside, and are told by John that they are a threat. That is all. Laura and Kelly had confessionals, but about Russell. How this affects me, as viewer, is that I sympathize with the men. I'm a woman, so I ought to be on the other side of this, but the editing is not letting me like these women, and I do like the Galu men. Nice shot after the Shambo confrontation on the beach, of KLM walking the beach with Shambo trailing. KLM looked confident, but hello, there are only three of you, which is hard not to notice as the scene follows a talk that is all about numbers. Three out of eight is not reason to be so cocky. They assume the men will pick on the outcast girl as well, it seems. Either that or they have a side deal with Brett. Laura
Had an odd voiceover confessional that was not attributed to her, while all the women were shown. She was compassionate, but the game doesn't stop. There is something hardened about Laura. I noticed one of the guys in the challenge, Dave I think, told her to speak up and call louder as Liz was directing FF better. We couldn't hear her in the challenge. We don't see her lips move in the confessional. She is hidden. Her time has to come. Kelly
Her huddling was not lightened up by humor like Erik's. She didn't like seeing the chief tax himself. As I said, she didn't offer to help. Not much there. Showed proper concern for Russell. Monica
I thought she was quite unlikable in her behavior to Shambo. She reminded me of how mean the cool girls can be when they're in a group. I know she is playing hard, at least in her mind, but she seemed arrogant, and she should have been more restrained about speaking her mind. She wouldn't even acknowledge the value of all Shambo's work, in an episode where those who work for the tribe seemed much more worth the space (to me) than those who suck their thumbs. I wanted Monica to be booted over Shambo. Anyone hope she would be saved? I'm not even a Shambo fan, but she was such an underdog and she did reach out, and it was mean how they spurned her. Shambo
Interesting episode in that we see Gilligan Shambo is finally USEFUL and will be USED. At least that is the plan. Use her and don't lose her, but don't include her. Very funny scene where they all told her how to vote. She started the scene looking rather pathetic, but it was fun to see her take the ball and run with it, by playing the game with Erik and John.
In a season full of underhanded people, WYSIWYG Shambo stands alone. We just know that when someone says her fate is sealed, that Shambo will be saved by some kind of bell. Unlike Liz. Dave
Not too much from Dave this ep. Thing about Dave is, when he says something it's quite a good sound byte, so I find myself wanting to hear more from him. Dave didn't get enough in Ep 1 for me to like him for winner, and he's not getting that much face time yet, so he appears to be solidly somewhere in the jury. His real playing hasn't started yet. John
I know Probst doesn't want anyone to like John, but I do. He's smart, and he's got a sense of humor. He's not being too much of a jerk. He was supportive of the chief. He has been a big challenge asset. John is pretty much nothing like he was set up to be in Ep 1. He isn't a hero or anything, but I look forward to hearing more from him. I liked John for starting the who would Shambo vote for dance. He was the one who initiated the let's pretend we're someone else game. Brett
There's a guy named Brett. I know this because they said his name and he nodded.
I don't get any feeling that Erik
Erik is a downright fun character. He was funny rubbing his machete against his head saying he was Shambeau ... and coming out of his sojourn in the tree. Compare his joy with Jaison's gloom. Erik was in a tree with creepy crawlies for over 24 hours and he's smiling. Like Probst, I would like to see Erik go far. There's really nothing I dislike about him. His big scene was entertaining and inspirational. He's a player but he's on a journey too. (uh-oh) The thing about Erik that I noticed in Ep 1, is that they had a great opening to introduce Erik's inner mind through a confessional, and let it go. Erik has not been seen talking about his long term game plan. Obviously he wants to win all the team challenges, merge with numbers, and get to the end, but we saw nothing from him this episode on how he might navigate the end game - even though he's counting on hitting the merge as a top dog. He found the idol last time and it wasn't mentioned. There was no need, as it wasn't remotely an issue this time, yet if he were going to make it to the end I would like to see some talk about it from him, some sense that this game won't be this easy for him much longer. At the same time, he's getting a lot of the limited supply of Galu face time, which is a BAD thing this season unless you are going to the finals, as it seems to go to people who appear to have a big future or those with very little future. SUMMARY
I thought this episode was mostly about character. The Man Test, the test of character imposed by adversity. We saw those who keep working when the going gets tough, and those who huddle and suck their thumbs. Thumb sucking and lots of womb imagery with people sheltering in hollow trees. Only two people ignored the assault and carried on. Both with the same name. One was taken down. He wasn't taking care of himself. The other, takes care of Number One first. However, he was working to keep other people's heads in the game. He was actively trying to keep Jaison from quitting. At TC, he spoke for the tribe. He was the cheerleader, not Mick. Erik is there talking about his sheer terror, and Russell doesn't say a word about the rain bothering him. Really, if we didn't know Russell had sabotaged his own tribe, I'd suspect he had snuck over to Galu, as they seem to be hardest hit. Russell Swan's last words are about TRYING. Effort, or the lack of it, seemed to me a key theme of this episode. Those who made an effort looked good; the others didn't. While it might seem that Erik and Shambo didn't make an effort, hiding in trees, they weren't passive, because they both said the whole time they were in their holes they were praying, refusing to quit, even, in Erik's case, actively negotiating with the powers of Samoa for a reprieve. That's not passive, not the same as huddling in a leaking shelter, not even taking the initiative to go look for a better spot. (OK, Galu did have a moment trying to huddle under a tree, but for the most part the girls were pathetic.) Note that Mick also found a more optimal spot to huddle ... he did try. Jaison was willing to get in the water. Natalie was enduring and thinking of people flipping, even though she was a shelter huddler. I feel like those who try, who make the effort, are the ones we are supposed to root for - whether or not they make it to the end matters less than whether they have the character to pass the Man Test.
_________________ Posting this unfinished because we just had an earthquake and if the power goes out I lose a bunch of writing! ETA, Seriously, the room began to shake and I was running for the door ...
I do NOT like earthquakes! My house is on piers so it shakes a lot even in small tremors. Well, let's hope that's all for the night.
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Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-23-09, 07:54 AM (EST)
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77. "RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts" |
OMG, OFG! Sure hope things have settled down there and that all is well! Never a dull moment! I agree with your take on the show, I felt the overall theme of the show had to do with the elements of Survivor can and does kick the a$$ of the survivors who play. Sometimes people lose their will to fight and are defeated mentally, as Jaison exemplifies, and sometimes it defeats them physically, but perhaps not mentally, as it did with RusSwell. Perhaps this theme clearly pointed to the those that seemed to be adjusting to the elements and adapting, mostly Mick, Natalie, Eric, Shambo, and certainly RussHell....I agree that Erik seems to be on a journey as well. I felt as though Eric called Foa Foa out at tribal counsel, which marks him as a number one target come merge by the Foas. Clearly, Liz is just hanging on by a thread and is sure to leave the next time Foa Foa goes to TC, will a merge save her? No sign of it in the preview.
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PepeLePew13 26134 desperate attention whore postings
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10-23-09, 10:59 AM (EST)
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80. "RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts" |
Oy! I hope it wasn't anything serious for you with the earthquake, OFG...I had the same WHOA! NATALIE! reaction to the scene as you did. Another thing that I got a strong sense of was that they're now starting a softening of RussHell's story arc, perhaps because they need to make him more palatable as a possible winner of the season? Initially, it was all about his dirty tricks, his need to lie and sabotage, his labeling of others as dumb blondes or whatever ... and now we're seeing a lot of positive things from him, such as being a provider, expressing concern, etc. We do still see him criticizing his tribemates for being wimpy, so he's not all the way rehabilitated with his image, but I definitely got a strong sense of softening this week.
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SquidProQuo 2526 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson"
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10-24-09, 02:54 PM (EST)
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81. "RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts" |
Ditto OFG, I just watched the episode very late last night, and the scene with Jaison and Natalie jumped out at me too. It could not have been scripted better. These may not be the exact words, but I wrote in my notes (with 3 stars besides it) that Natalie said: "I think it can be done." Sure sounded like a winner's edit to me.Also, I noticed today that TDT is now saying that he thinks Natalie is the winner. Here's what TDT says (Michel, you had caught the smoothie issue too): Still, as of late Ep6, Liz and Natalie were both resigned to one of them being booted (and since we think Natalie may be the winner*, we're guessing she isn't booted). * Natalie got an apparently inaccurately positive edit in Ep5's Gross Food challenge, since her attempt at downing a smoothie was edited out completely (but present in the press photos, oops), and Ashley hinted that others had trouble with the smoothies in her interviews. Update: Jaison confirms this in the "Foa Foa's Bad Break" video on the CBS site: "Last time it was the food challenge where we had to chug the disgusting stuff, and we all know Natalie and Ashley aren't gonna be able to do that. So, you know, we're out on that."
Natalie also got a solo headshot as Probst said "turn this game around" at the Ep5 tribal council, and got to allay Mick's fears of a post-merge decimation of Foa Foa in Ep6. Not to mention that Probst keeps mentioning her, for no apparent reason, in his EW blog.
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michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings
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10-24-09, 06:21 PM (EST)
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83. "RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts" |
LAST EDITED ON 10-24-09 AT 06:47 PM (EST)I see I have a lot of catching up to do. I wanted to post my thoughts before reading anything else but i promise I will read them! Here is what I saw: The recap showed the rain and we heard Jaison and Kelly complaining.
Jeff said that “with their huge lead in numbers and rewards, Galu had plenty of reasons to celebrate.
The only storm Galu couldn’t weather was Shambo.
<Laura repeats her Gilligan comparison> On her second visit to Foa Foa, it became clear these were Shambo’s real friends.
Russell, on the other hand, had no friends, only targets.
When Liz confronted Russell, she became next on his hit list.
But, after Liz’s strong effort in another loss, Russell put his vendetta against her on the back-burner in order to jettison the tribe’s weakest member, Ashley.
<Russell’s voting comments were added: “It’s because of me you’re going home. I’m out here playing for one million dollars; never trust me.”> Jeff concluded: “With only 5 Foa Foa members left, Liz needs a miracle to save herself from Russell’s cruel intentions, assuming they can all survive the conditions.” That is a strong investment EPMB put in Liz’s fight against Russell. Knowing that Liz had nothing to do with the miracle that saved her, I don’t think it’s an end game investment but rather a way to keep us tuned in until next time. The use of the words “cruel intentions” will be remembered if she does fall. This episode showed that Survivor is a Test of WillFirst Scene - The Deluge: We started the episode in Foa Foa where Ashley was practically forgotten and all the talk centered on the rain. Mick said: “Since day 10, this is day 15 now, we’ve been soaked. It’s been pretty bad for the last several nights. There was some envy last night when Ashley went home. There was a little tinge of jealousy. I was like: Oh Man! You know…” Jaison looked at the sky and saw no hope for the rain to stop: “I used to watch this cartoon when I was growing up called Captain Planet (?)… I’m tired, I’m hungry and I’m sitting here in a battle that seems to be a battle that fate just doesn’t want us to win.”
Since they were already wet, Russell proposed that they go sit in the water. Jaison called it the “Man Test”. If that was his test, Jaison failed as he lost control and started laughing at himself.
One person didn’t fail that test:
Russell said: “Hell yes, I’m having fun. Out in the rain, this is how I wanted it to be. Those sunny days we had for 9 days; that was too pretty. I’d take my family here. I want to be somewhere where I can’t take my family, where it’s miserable… Tonight, they’re gonna be wet. This is really no big deal. As a matter of fact, this makes me stronger.” Usually, we hear castaways talking about their family in such a way that makes us think that it’ll be their story: They’ll get to show their family member how they are doing and they will leave right after. This is probably the first time that we have a family visit comment that showed someone wasn’t anticipating the family visit too much!
Also note that, in the introductory montage, Russell is associated with a sea turtle. The sea turtle that, right after the break, we saw swimming effortlessly towards the surface where the raging sea was in a complete contrast to the serene beauty underneath. Galu
Day 15 Russell, in a very nice montage, was shown working tirelessly to save his group from the deluge. He tried to fish and to start a fire. Funeral music played in the background. Note that throughout these early scenes, the 2 Russells were shown in complete contrast of each other. This is very important in Survivor editing: Ozzy and Yul were shown in contrasting scenes during CI’s episode #2. Todd and Peih Gee were shown in contrast when it came to throwing a challenge. Parvati and Eliza were shown in contrast of each other when the rains came in Micronesia.
Here, Swan worked to help his tribe because he felt indebted to them. He worked until he almost passed out. It led to his demise. Hantz worked because he wants his tribe to bring him to the million and he thrived in the process. It seems that it should lead him to victory.
Observing Russell S., the tribe didn’t move a finger to help. Laura said she would do anything for a tarp. John (solo): “It’s raining, people are miserable, our spirits are down and it could all have been alleviated if Russell had gotten the tarp. That’s the way the game goes sometimes. One person is left to make decisions for the group and, sometimes, it puts you in a worse position than you would have been if you were making those decisions for yourself.” Brett (solo): “Russell was out working on a fire while every single one of us was huddled up, trying to stay warm, trying to keep sane, he’s out there just busting his butt. For me, to see that, it was awesome to see him push himself, it’s great that you’re out there doing it but no one expects you to do that. It was a bit unnecessary and it went a little bit too far.” The group rushed to the shelter where they huddled some more. Russell said he’d rather be in the shelter but that he needed to make a deposit in case he needed to make withdrawals later on. “That chief thing kind of balances to the negative.” He finally headed off to the shelter to warm up a little but promised he’d go right back out there. Kelly (solo): “Russell has that stubborn determination to do everything. The elements out here are going to break you down. He’s pushing himself too hard and it’s going to take it’s toll, you know.”
Foa Foa
Mick (sitting in a tree): “I probably look like some crazy person but, basically, this spot is pretty good cover…My body heat kind of keeps this little corner warm. The shelter has so many gaps in it that, when it rains this hard, it pours right through… I’m doing the best I can to stay semi-warm and out of the rain. Just trying to get through this.” Russell (who had been observing, said): “Worthless. No good. Nothing. It’s wet and they want to get out of it. Where are they all from? New-York city? “Gotta stay dry. Can’t get my hair wet” This is crazy. They might be all sucking each other’s thumbs ‘cause they’re just a bunch of babies. That’s why we lose the challenges because they’re lazy. They give up, they start walking like Oooh-Oooh! I’m too tired. Don’t stop until you throw-up, pass out or something. If you don’t throw up every freakin’ challenge, you didn’t do your job. It was freezing last night, wet, cold, it’s time to do something about it today but they don’t want to. They want to sit there and suck on their thumbs. I don’t know how to help them because I don’t think it will stop raining.”
Note that, even though the camera panned on all the members of Foa Foa, this confessional, and especially the worthless shown in captions, were in direct opposition to Mick. This tells us what the editors think about his efforts to lead the tribe. Scene II: After the Flood Erik: “I’ve been in my hole for 26 hours and I was like OK! I give in. We give in. We understand your greatness, we understand your power. If you are kind to us, I promise we will speak of your mercy. Less than 12 hours later, I wake up from my hole and, not only is it blue skies but the most beautiful rainbow you have ever seen. It’s as if Samoa said; “That’s all I wanted to hear, Erik. Just know: I’m the man, you’re not. Now that we have that clear, enjoy yourself for the next 24 days. I’m so happy.”
In an episode titled “The Man Test” Erik tells us he isn’t the man. Russell looked at the rainbow with a huge smile.
Russell (solo): “Getting a ray of sunshine today was a way to lift our spirits…This brought the tribe together, we’re stronger than ever, we really are.”
Kelly exclaimed: “We can finally get out of Noah’s ark!!!!”
John yawned. Scene III – The challenge and Swan’s song: Galu didn’t react at the news of Ashley’s elimination.
Jeff told them they were playing for pizza but the both tribes would be voting someone out.
When Jeff said that the winning tribe would be eating the pizza while the other tribe voted, we heard Erik taunting FF by saying: “Yeah! Yeah!”
We saw that Hantz noticed the words and Erik’s smile. John told Russell S. that he could sit out. Russell said he’d do the pushing. Russell (solo): “I’m feeling weaker as the days go on but I’m the leader so I got to go forward, I can’t look back. I’m playing the game.”
Note that Mick didn’t do the pushing even if we heard that a leader should.
After the race part of the challenge, Russell was exhausted. Stumbling, he bumped into the yellow ball before John managed to grab him by the shirt and bring him to their table maze. Russell then collapsed. Jiffy stopped the challenge and called in the medical team.
Dave (solo): “Russell passed out during the challenge. I saw him stumbling around, staggering and I figured it was because he was blindfolded. I couldn’t figure out exactly what was happening. I should have guessed that he’d passed out.” Jiffy made the call, deciding the challenge was over, that neither tribe wins reward and that both tribes would still be voting someone out. Compared to the emotions shown by the Kucha Kids when Skupin was medevaced, Club Med’s good-byes were rather cold. There was a really scary scene a little later in the episode when Russell passed out a second time. His eyes glazed over like a dead man’s stare. After he recovered, Jeff told him he had to be pulled from the game, bringing the man to tears. Russell was eventually able to give us his final thoughts on the game: “Taken out of the game for medical reason is the worst thing I ever felt of my life. I played every minute to win this game… To do it and fail is better than to never try.” Scene IV – Questions: Galu was back in the rain. Dave was talking with Erik next to his tree, saying he would be happy but shocked if Russell returned to the game. The rest of the tribe was in the shelter, feeling depressed. Monica asked the rocket scientist for his medical opinion. John (solo): “Everyone’s concerned about Russell. For Russell to go down the way he did today, it shows you how tough this game is…Russell gives you everything he’s got and more every single time and then he comes back and he’s a workhorse. His body failed him today. It’s so unfortunate.” Dave told Erik he would make a break for the shelter.
(I must say that I had visions of a horror movie when someone wanders off alone. I figured Dave would run right into…the clothesline! But, unfortunately…) Laura, in a confessional that wasn’t directly attributed to her: “Our leader’s not here. That’s a big hit to take. It’s kind of surreal, not knowing what to do because we’re used to rally to him to give us our game plan. We can’t let these emotional things distract you too much out of the game. You have to keep your focus. We’re still playing the game, we’re still thinking about the person that’s gonna go but I know my heart is really heavy for Russell. I just hope that he’s ok.” Foa Foa
Where a shark was seen attacking a school of fish. Liz and Natalie decided they had to vote against each other. Liz (solo): “I feel bitter sweet. We were close to winning but then big Russell had his medical accident. When Jeff said we’d still have to go to Tribal Council it was surprising and a little upsetting because none of us want to go back there. We were just there. I have a fair sense of what’s going on, there are 5 of us and we’re again one big family. Natalie and I both looked at each other and said it’s going to be one of us and it will be. At this point, we need to continue to win and it doesn’t make sense to vote out one of the guys. My gut tells me that maybe I’ll stick around because I am competitively stronger. My fate and Natalie’s fate rests in the three guys left in our tribe.” Natalie knew which guy really decided. She caught up with Russell to see what he had decided.
Russell said: “Your vote is very simple tonight. It’s Liz. I’m trying my best right now. You and Liz are the two names of course. I put Liz, you put Liz and I know I can talk Mick into putting Liz no matter what.”
Natalie added: “We already talk and it’s very simple: I’m voting for her, she’s voting for me.”
Liz pleaded her case Mick and Jaison. She told them that she’d like to stay but knew it was one of the girls.
Mick answered: “I have no idea. I don’t want to talk about it but I guess we have to.” Jaison (solo): “Every time that we come close to something good, it kind of gets taken away. Winning today would have been our revenge… We were winning. I think what is the most disheartening, not necessarily the losses, but just the random things that keep happening every time you think you have something good to go bad. I hope Russell’s ok. That’s the primary concern and I agree with the reason for stopping the challenge but it sucks that when you are feeling you are getting in a groove and going someplace it’s; no sorry.” Natalie joined Jaison in the shelter and asked if he thought they would have won that challenge.
Jaison answered: “How many of us actually have a shot at getting real far?
<note the random shots of Russell and Mick>
This whole tribe could be done by day 21 at the rate we’re going.” Natalie replied: “I don’t know about that. I think it can be done. I think it can be done. People could flip over there.”
I had just about given up on Natalie passing the test but then she is shown making this end-game comment. This was about her, not the tribe as her face was shown in close-up when she said those words. Galu
The next segment showed just who and why people could flip:
Monica was talking to Laura and Kelly, saying that Shambo would be gunning for her and asking for their protection just as they happened to walk up to her. Laura (solo): “If we were going to tribal council right now, Shambo is going. 100%. From day 1, she’s never really gelled with the tribe and she’s been to the other tribe and none of us have. When we merge, she could easily flop sides.” Kelly said she thought they would make the merge before returning to Tribal Council.
Shambo told them she had done all the work so that they shouldn’t vote against her.
Monica replied that Shambo had written her name down. Monica (solo): “The number one reason for voting out Shambo for me is the fact that she wrote my name down. You got to take your enemy out the minute you can and right now seems like an opportune moment.” John and Erik felt that Monica was the weakest link and Dave agreed. Brett was also seen in their group but he never made a comment. John added that they would not have won the fishing gear and the first immunity without Shambo. He also felt she posed no threat to anyone and that she didn’t have the manipulative power that Laura and Monica have together. John (solo): “Voting Shambo doesn’t do anything beneficial for any of us. Monica needs to go for several reasons. 1: Monica and Laura have this mother-daughter, sister-sister relationship. Post-merge, that is going to be dangerous. One of the two of them needs to go while we still have a chance to get ‘em. Laura will be seriously weakened without Monica. And Monica, I think, is the clear move because Monica doesn’t help us win challenges at all.” John asked the guys: “Is there a better move than that?”
Erik: “This is not a bad plan.”
John concluded by saying that it was: “Me, you, Dave, Brett and either coach or Shambo, we have numbers. Game over; no one flips.”
Brett was again shown as this was said, making me doubt he is ready to go against Kelly and the other girls.
The following picture shows what I mean:
 While John exposed his plan, Brett seemed to be trying to figure out how to say that he was never part of that plan
Shambo pleaded with Erik and John. Erik told her to stay consistent with her vote. The two guys played a very mob-like game of not saying what had to be understood; John saying what he would do if he was Erik while Erik said how he would vote if he was John. Shambo understood…maybe.
Erik (solo): “Shambo is on a very need to know basis. Us four guys, we’re pretty good at keeping the plan within the 4 of us. We’re not going to be telling her anything more than what she needs to know.”
Their plan, however, depended on Shambo locking it up. Tribal Council
Jeff gathered everyone in the tribal council area and told them that Russell had been pulled from the game. He concluded by saying that it had been the scariest moment he ever had on the show.
Shambo felt very sad.
Hantz said that he didn’t like the fact that Russell went out that way, preferring to beat him in another way.
Dave said that the level of danger was more than he expected.
Asked what he had been doing, Erick spoke of his adventure inside a tree trunk. He felt he was in solitary confinement for a crime he didn’t commit.
Shambo said she would never quit just as the rain started falling again.
Dave said he liked the numbers advantage that Galu had.
Hantz was laughing at Dave’s confidence, saying that their attitude was fine.
<Natalie’s defiant stare accompanied those words.>
Russell added: “They will be shocked in the next couple of challenges because we can come back and even up their numbers.”
It was Erik’s turn to laugh.
Mick was happy with their moral victory; that his team was ahead during the challenge.
Erik wasn’t concerned about the tie. Getting to the topic at hand, Jiffy said that no one would be going home.
Liz had found her miracle. Russell and Natalie were equally pleased.
Monica and Dave were relieved; Erik and John shared unhappy looks.
Erik commented: “We lost a guy today so, whether we are voting or not voting, we’re down already so let’s stop the bleeding at one.”
Russell enjoyed the news because: “This is the best news we heard all day. Us 5, we’re the strongest we’ve ever been the whole game. If they beat us fair and square, then we’ll send somebody home. I believe the tables are about to turn and I’m going to give 110% that it does.”
Erik wanted to do a challenge right there. Talking about Russell Swan, he added that: “Every bead of sweat that he put in, we’re bringing that to you.”
Mick responded with a “We welcome it.”
Jiffy said that the rivalry had been intensified.
He then told Galu that they had to assign a new leader. Kelly walked up to retrieve Russell’s necklace.
The tribes left to military sounding music.
The StoryFor an episode without a vote, we saw that Galu was a tribe divided. The talks about getting rid of either Monica or Laura before the merge lead me to believe that they might not seize the opportunity. This episode was all about Surviving the Test that this game imposes on its participants. Jeff’s words to Russell S told us that effort and determination were respected and that seeing your body fail wasn’t the measure of a player. How did the other players measure up? Jaison: He’s the one that brought up the theme of this episode and he immediately failed. From his first confessional to his last, including his words in the shelter to Natalie, we see that Jaison is already defeated. There are no make-up tests in a season of Survivor. Monica: She was only concerned with her immediate future. She wasn’t heard commenting on Russell so that was an occasion missed to make her more likable. We heard that she could be manipulative but what we saw was in contradiction: Her actions only re-enforced Shambo’s desire to write her name down. Kelly: She was shown expressing concern for Russell but it was accompanied with reproach much like what Brett told us. I found it interesting that, when Galu is shown as a tribe divided, Kelly and Brett weren’t shown together. Although we had never heard them talk, they had been always together in previous episodes. I’d be tremendously surprised if these two don’t have an alliance. Of course, with so few words from Kelly, it’s notable that she seemed so out of touch with the game that she hadn’t prepared anything in case they went to TC before the merge. I’m sure it was a façade for Shambo’s benefit but it would have been up to her to tell us so. Brett: For once, his silence seemed to speak louder than his words. Brett could be up to something, something that will change the game but it probably won’t benefit him. Laura: This was her best episode by far. We saw her determination during the challenge and she gave a great confessional that included thoughts on Russell and views on the game. We also heard that she was manipulative and we saw her as the leader of the young women. The problem was that the editors didn’t even show the viewers her name in text graphic during her best confessional. It’s not as if Laura’s voice is familiar to the audience. For most, Laura is still the one that complains about the tarp and wanted to target Shambo.
Being shown like the rest of Galu while Russell was trying to do all the work showed she didn’t pass the test of will. It leads me to believe that Laura, like Brett, will play a part in the outcome of the game (we know she is smart) but it won’t turn in her favor. Shambo: We heard Shambo say that she worked side by side with chief and it was nice to hear her comments at TC. It must have helped her popularity factor a lot. As likable as Shambo is meant to be, we saw that she is only a pawn in the game. Foa Foa needs her and, now, the guys of Galu do too. Laura is watching her and she is aware of the dangers that a pawn could create once it gets passed the line of defense. Sugar is the only pawn that decided this game and even she didn’t win so I have serious doubts that Shambo can do better. Dave: He had presence in this episode but it was much like empty calories. We saw him in the Galu huddle as Swan worked so it couldn’t have been very positive. He received the 1st confessional after the leader went down but it was totally impersonal. He saw what happened and he told us. No warm words for Russell, no indication on how it made him feel. That’s narration in its most meaningless form. He explained what we saw. In the voting decision, he was peripheral at best. There was nothing to show that he’ll profit from it, nothing to show that he won’t go along. Erik: He was much more central to the guys’ alliance in Galu than Dave. It wasn’t his plan but he completely endorsed it. He’s also the one that the editing put in charge of keeping Shambo in check: We heard him telling her to lock it up and he told us she was on a need to know basis. If Shambo doesn’t come through for the Galu men (and has she shown she could?) it will be Erick’s neck on the line. His portrayal during the rain was as poor as Mick’s but his tribal council interventions were much more forceful. The problem with his fighting words was that we had heard him taunt Foa Foa before and we saw that Hantz took good notes. Erick wanted a fight, I think he will not only get it but he won’t come out on top. Mick: I had always felt Mick’s story lacked something and we saw what it was in this episode:
- Hantz told us that Mick was worthless immediately after the doctor had told us how the rain was affecting him.
- We heard Russell telling us that Mick was his puppet.
- Asked by Liz how the votes would go, Mick said he had no idea.
- After Swan showed us what a leader needed to do to make a withdrawal later, Mick failed the test. The camera showing him working when Jaison said he doubted anyone on Foa Foa could go far and Mick’s words to Erik at the end of TC prevent me from saying categorically that Mick can’t win but he has a lot of editing ground to make up.
John: The 2nd star of the episode, John really entered the stage in this episode. It took him 6 episodes to talk to us about strategy and when he did, he showed he intended to divide the tribe. Applying post-merge criteria at this stage of the game is dangerous. Winning challenges shouldn’t be much of a concern for Galu at this point. They have the numbers and a large alliance is often difficult to hold together.
Even if you saw him as a smart leader of the alliance, it should be remembered that he was the one who expressed the most negative comments about Russell S. “He put us in a worse position than we would have been if we had made the decisions.” Liz: The recap set up Liz to have a strong episode but, from then on, we saw she didn’t have much to offer. She simply relied on the men to keep her in the game. That was the extent of her plan. On the plus side, we didn’t hear her complaining about the rain even if she was included in Russell’s rant. If Foa Foa goes back to tribal, it’s too obvious that she’d be the one voted out so there is a chance she will find another miracle. I see a Sally-type of reprieve (sent to exile island to avoid TC) more than Liz working any magic. Like Sally, she would still leave soon after, not turn her situation completely around.
Natalie: When Russell mockingly said “I can’t get my hair wet”, I thought he had killed Natalie’s story.
But Natalie never complained about the weather. In fact, for the second week in a row, the editors cut out a scene from promos that would have made her look bad:  Natalie: "We're starving to death. I think we're all wasting away" And then, we had a close-up of Natalie saying: “I don’t know about that (Foa Foa being doomed). I think it can be done. I think it can be done. People could flip over there.” That small contribution showed that Natalie passed the test of determination. She wants to make it to the end and she sees a way to make it happen. Will it be enough to beat Russell? I think it is still very possible.
Hantz: As noted above, Hantz passed the test of will with flying colors. This should be his season. He has this game in hand and no one else can challenge him.
Or so it seems because calling his strategy “cruel intentions” sounded a little harsh even for the biggest villain ever. It painted Liz as a victim and winners don’t vote out victims. Usually, the players they vote out had to be voted out. Qualifying his plan as “cruel intentions” seemed a little petty to be a winning strategy. Maybe it was done to indicate why Russell loses the vote. He is a mastermind but a bit too cruel. However, this seems minor in comparison to the length the editors have gone to so that the audience can accept this villain. Hantz still has to be the favorite to win.
PS: I wrote the summary for this episode. It can be found here.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-24-09, 07:21 PM (EST)
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86. "RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts" |
Very well said, very helpful analysis, michel. I particularly liked all the nuances you picked up in on Galu. Totally agree that Brett was shown not wholeheartedly with the men. I wanted to yell at them, pay attention to Brett! Don't assume he is with you because he's male. I think the editing surrounding Russell S's collapse was skewed for an unusual reason. As it is not a spoiler, I think it's OK to mention that from Russell's exit interviews we now know he never accepted that Jeff and the medics made the right call in pulling him. He continued to feel wronged. Therefore, a lot about this editing was Jeff's choice to show Russell how bad off he was, including how his whole tribe saw he was in bad shape prior to the challenge and wished he wouldn't take it on. It's rare that an episode is edited to speak to one of the players, but in this case I have no doubt they were communicating to Russell so that he could find acceptance of his fate in the game - which it seems he found by watching the episode. (Don't forget Russell is an attorney specializing in litigation.) I agree with you that Galu is not a warm and fuzzy group, and did not contrast well with Kucha. The whole Natalie manipulation just bums me out. If she is the winner, then I would say they (who edit) judged her as unworthy and decided to make her a hidden winner. I mean, none of these manipulations are actually changing my mind in that I am still not a Natalie fan and would never pick her as the person who SHOULD win this game. If she wins it will be because she rode coattails and made fewer waves. I agree with you that Mick is not being edited as a strong winner, but the Mick scenes don't make the same impression on me. They haven't shown anyone talking about Mick as chief for ages. For me the story is that one player, Russell S, allowed the chief twist to derail his game by taking it too seriously. Mick, OTOH, decided to be just another player and avoid the kiss of death trap. I saw the scene in the tree as sympathetic. Not pumping him up to be winner, but not painting him in a bad light. Re the challenge choice, Mick says in Insider that he knew he was too dehydrated to push the ball. He made the pick that was better for his team to win the challenge. The editors could have put that in to contrast the two chiefs' decisions, but for whatever reason they chose not to. Some of these choices simply relate to whether they have time. In any case, Mick made a good choice, because his team was ahead after the pushing segment. In the scene with Liz, while it was painful to watch Mick lie to Liz (badly), I read it that similar to last week, Foa Foa was caught up in physical misery and was not divided as a tribe, so they were just sad at the inevitable. The unstated reality was that Mick couldn't save Liz, nor could Jaison, without going against Russell, and they didn't have enough of a stake in saving Liz over Natalie to do it. I saw that scene as a contrast with Galu, which was relatively eager to vote someone off. No one on Galu said that it sucked to boot someone! Basically I agree with you that on Foa Foa, Mick is not being primed as the heroic winner, and Jaison certainly is not, and that Natalie may be, and Russell H has always been the frontrunner but for the fact that he's also got the major villain edit. I think that Erik is shown in a positive light, and I much enjoyed his Ariel-like sojourn in the belly of a tree. I think we are supposed to root for Erik. If not for the way they ignored him in the opening segment, I would be invested in his chances. Thank you michel, you definitely made me look at a number of the scenes differently. And when you do read my comments, you will see I am on board with the sea turtle imagery!
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Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-25-09, 09:28 AM (EST)
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87. "RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts" |
EXCELLENT observations, michel....as always! You really are a master at details. And excellent points with vidcap validation on Brett, who clearly doesn't seem on board with the boys, and with Natalie, when her starving scene is omitted, clearly she is receiving some manipulation by the editors, in a positive way. I don't necessarily see Mick as a loser at all. In fact, I do think there is emphasis on the leaders and their contrasting styles. Clearly, RusSwell embraced the role, even though he was in a tribe of very opinionated and domineering men(John, Dave, and Eric)....he was the leader and it would be him that made the decisions and did the hard work to support his tribe at all costs. We hear Dave, Eric, John, and even the alpha girl Laura all badmouth RusSwell. Ultimately, the show edits RusSwell's leadership style to have been the WRONG choice, albeit, not for the lack of trying. OTOH, Mick, who is also in a tribe of domineering and opinionated men with Ben and RussHell, chooses to let them take over the game, while he moves to the back burner. While he may be perceived as worthless by RussHell, RussHell is also our villain, and isn't it natural for the villain to badmouth him, the chosen leader. I really haven't heard anyone else badmouth him. I thought it was interesting that Liz approached him when it came time to talk about the vote that night. Perhaps Mick also notes all of the men on the other tribe as well, and maybe he's a student of the John Nash Game Theory. With SUCH a domineering and controling personality on your team, wouldn't it be the best strategy to placate that person and let them be the target and shield you? I think that the editing has shown us the contrasting leader styles and clearly, Mick's has been the right choice...so far. Now, I would like to know if we can discuss Jiffy's blogs in here that are already published? Since they are available to the public, they are not spoilers, correct? I find them interestingly in contrast to the editing of the show this season, and therefore relevant to all the information that we acquire to spoil the show, or predict the winner. Of course, they could indeed contain misdirection as well. Let me know...
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michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings
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10-25-09, 12:55 PM (EST)
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88. "RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts" |
LAST EDITED ON 10-25-09 AT 01:00 PM (EST)Thank you OFG and Fp for your feedback. I see that we are in agreement on most characters. I did take a few notes from your own analysis. 1- OFP's comparisons: Jaison = Hamlet. Erik = Ariel.
Loved it. Encore! Encore! 2- "Natalie's Whoa Moment" vs. her weak first episodes. That's THE question regarding Natalie's chances of winning BUT what if we see her contributing to, maybe even forming, the alliance that flips the game?
It's a stretch but maybe, just maybe, they are using their experience with a previous Natalie who had been unseen for 8 episodes but turned into the stone-cold bitch in minutes (I also wrote that episode's summary and her confessionals were memorable).
They could transform this Natalie into whatever is needed to make her an acceptable winner. 3- Mick's adaptable nature: Mick is the toughest call of the season. You two see a good story and there's enough shown to support that view. I see that he's all wrong and I think there's enough to support that view also. That's the beauty of editing! Let me explain a bit more: In episode #1 Mick said he had leadership qualities because you have to make snap decisions in the operating room. Where are those qualities? Liz asked him for a decision. Mick didn't know and, like OFP noted, couldn't even lie to Liz. She knew she was gone had they voted. He told us he couldn't trust Shambo but he trusts Russell, of all people. He even told him that he will always be honest with him. Good decision? Russell told us, Ashley and, by ricochet, Mick that he should never be trusted. Writing this, it made me realize something else: I agree that the episode was edited to prove to Swan that Jeff was right but what if there was another message? Jeff made the call, made the tough decision that a doctor SHOULD have made and it wasn't the first time. Mick was standing right next to Mike but it was Jeff that ordered Mike to stay behind for a check-up. Mick just watched. Docters, including Mick, were all around Swan but it was Jeff that made the call. What if Mick's edit is to show him that he doesn't have the leadership skills required OUTSIDE the operating room or, more accurately, in Jeff's world? The only decision that Mick told us about was to let Ben take over. Was that really smart? I know, in reality, it took the heat off of Mick so it wass good in that sense but we're talking edit, not reality. In the edited version, Ben almost destroyed his team and Mick didn't have the balls to stop him. Whiny Jaison did. Also, in the reality of the game, Mick could be playing well according to Game Theory. In the edited version, he should be telling us about it. Natalie practically quoted the follower's guide from Nash. I don't know if there is a message that is being sent to Mick but, in my head at least, it adds up, it's a possibility. PS: I'll be heading over to read Jeff's blog now so, speaking for myself, it isn't a problem to discuss it in here, in small doses, to help shed light on our question marks.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-27-09, 04:20 AM (EST)
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94. "RE: Flowerpower" |
Are you kidding? I will be delighted to hear your insights and to hear what experience in the biz has taught you.
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CTgirl 8013 desperate attention whore postings
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10-25-09, 06:30 PM (EST)
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89. "RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts" |
I wrote my analysis and then I went and read everyone’s opinions and added in comments where appropriate.The thing that stuck out the most to me this episode was the contrast between Mick and Russell S. as chiefs and how we perceive Russell H. at this point in the game. Trust and leadership are still the themes of three of the major characters this season. First, like FloPo, I noticed the difference between Mick and Russell S. and their imperfect leadership styles as chiefs. We see RusSwell busting his butt (and foreshadowing his accident, the episode opened with a shot of RS looking like he was going to faint dead away on the beach when he was fishing!) but his tribe mates comment that he was doing too much (Brett) and that he was pushing himself too hard and that it will take its toll (Kelly). We immediately cut to Mick over at Galu in a tree trying to stay warm and just get through it. He is conserving his energy. RusSwell at Galu has been the best leader. His tribe is up in numbers, but we know they will be in disarray now that he’s gone. Mick hasn’t led, but he has positioned himself well in the game of Survivor. At this point in the game, we see that RusSwell’s way of being chief was not the correct one. He said in an interview that a chief can’t sit out, but that way turned out to be his downfall. RusSwell got a nice swan song this week, however in previous episodes we saw a negative side to Russwell as leader also. His style has already cost him the game. Time will tell how well Mick’s strategy of playing low and getting through succeeds! To michel’s point, I also can’t figure out if the editors are trying to make Mick look weak or smart. If he were the winner, he wouldn’t be the first one I was ‘meh’ about! RusHell is the power player at Foa Foa, AKA as a leader. But we hear him say again that people shouldn’t trust him. In the recap, Jeff says that he has no friends, only targets. That strategy works well pre-merge, but it will become a lot tougher to sway a jury if he continues to act so hard-hearted. I respect RusHell as a player, but don’t particularly like him (but then again I don’t care about most of the players this season, kind of like how I felt about Exile Island. I’m enjoying the game but am not invested in the characters). He has a point that his tribes mates were being babies and should work harder, but I haven’t seen enough visuals to convince me they are as lazy as Rushell says. The weather they struggled through was an extreme condition – and Galu was struggling also. So to compare them to babies sucking their thumbs was a little over the top in my mind (not to mention that Russhell has a lot more belly fat to keep him warm!). He also went on his rant right before RusSwell went down due to the conditions and working too hard. It didn’t make me particularly sympathetic towards RusHell. I found him to be callous. But he was humanized this week. I liked his comment that he wanted to be someplace hard, not someplace nice like where he would take his family (on vacation). (Russhell mentioning his family was a shock in itself!) In the first episode Russhell said he was going to show everyone how easy it is to win survivor, and he certainly showed how easy he found this part of the game, but is it too easy and will he be able to “outlast” everyone? This is Russhell’s game to lose, but we still have a lot of time to go before anyone is crowned sole survivor I also had a “whoa” moment when Natalie told Jaison that she thinks she can get people to flip. I’m not convinced that she’s the winner. IMO, that just points to her longevity and maybe a vote or two, but not a win.
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michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings
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10-26-09, 11:17 AM (EST)
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91. "RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts" |
CTGirl, I followed your advice and looked back at the first 2 episodes and noted some interesting points about Mick and Natalie.Mick started with a great confessional for a winner...or a loser. "I have leadership skills...It takes more than a note from mom..."
His edit could be to show that he's playing Survivor as if he needed a note from mom. His next confessional is also smart, letting Ben hang himself. The problem is that it all went downhill from there: - Mike Borassi, of all people, was the one that told Mick to vote Ashley.
- Russell said: Mick is the leader but I control what happens in camp. (which could be considered the negative thing that people forget when they say no one complained about Mick's leadership)
- Mick's vote against Ashley was completely ignored in the following episode. A chance to make him look in danger was missed which would be strange if he's a winner.
- Jaison had enough of Ben but Mick made apologies for him.
- Betsy went to Mick to get Ben voted out and Mick's confessional had no nuance: Betsy was going home. Ben had 3 strikes against him but our leader wasn't about to call him out.
- His edit continued to plummet until his intervention at TC to defend Ben looked like a very cowardly approach, especially compared to Jaison. Ben had done everything to hang himself but Mick never considered voting out one of the most despicable characters ever shown.
(Of course, Russell was also protecting Ben but Russell explained his selfish reasons to keep Ben.) Natalie really didn't have much but, knowing what we know now, there was a careful progression to her story: She was the first one shown to be part of Russell's Dumb ass girls alliance and now she is the last one remaining. Why? Even if we saw her involved in the conflicts, she avoided getting trapped by them. First, Betsy told Natalie about not trusting Russell. We saw Natalie taking note but not acting on it. Considering what happened to Betsy and Marissa after they confronted Russell, that was smart.
It took a while (too long?) but we were told why Natalie didn't confront Russell: She considers him a good goat. Next: Ashley asked Natalie if there was a way to tell Ben to be quiet at night. Natalie told Ashley "Good Luck". Considering what happened to Marisa and Yasmin after they confronted Ben, it was sound advice. Then: Betsy asked Ashley and Natalie for help regarding voting out Ben. All the shots of Natalie at TC showed that she was sympathetic to Betsy (contrary to Mick) but she didn't do like Ashley who tried to rally Liz to the cause. Considering what happened to Ashley, that was smart. I'd say both Mick and Natalie need a strong episode to elevate them to deserving winner status but I expect it more from Natalie than from Mick. Her story arc has always been slowly but steadily, going up. (Just like that turtle after all! Isn't Russell more the shark than the turtle?)
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Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-27-09, 07:32 AM (EST)
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95. "RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts" |
Definately, I agree...they will both need strong episodes to elevate them to deserving winners....I just don't want you to dismiss Mick. This has also been about choices that they leaders have made. Mick made a good choice, especially with who he picked to compete in that first challenge, choosing Jaison to swim compared to the choice that RusSwell made, choosing John to swim, who chose to swim in his heavy blue jeans. We also saw RusSwell choose comfort over the tarp....so Mick has not made every bad move. I just see Mick having quite the contrasting leader strategy as opposed to RusSwell, in a season that is obviously highlighting leaders. So far, his leadership style has perservered. It will be very interesting to see how Mick's game changes, if it does at all, after the merge. Remember, Bob had absolutely no game until well after the merge and he won the game. There is a long way to go to get to end game from here.
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CTgirl 8013 desperate attention whore postings
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10-27-09, 04:49 PM (EST)
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97. "RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts" |
I'd say both Mick and Natalie need a strong episode to elevate them to deserving winner status but I expect it more from Natalie than from Mick. Her story arc has always been slowly but steadily, going up. Me three! But michel, I want to echo FP not to dismiss Mick. As much as Natalie's story arc has been growing steadily, it bothers me that EPMB, in a cast of 20 people, didn't feel the need to give Natalie one confessional in the premiere if she was the winner. We met Bob up front and center before he faded into the background. I'm no fan of Mick, but since its pretty obvious from the editing that the end game players are Russhell, Natalie, Mick and Shambo, I think we have to consider them all as potential winners. There is plenty of time for Natalie and Mick to have some strong episodes. I went and rewatched the scene where you think Mick is the worthless one. I still view it the same way. ER is talking about the tribe in general and not Mick in particular. Yes Mick is the immediate person before and after his worthless statement but he was the smart one who found someplace warmer than the shelter to sit. Then when ER says, "it's wet. where are they from? NYC? gotta stay dry," there is a shot of Natalie while ER says "can't get my hair wet," but we actually see her washing off a papaya and keeping busy around the shelter. I didn't see Foa Foa being portrayed as worthless. It's also interesting that the two people getting close-ups while Russhell has his commentary are the two people that could possibly beat him in the finals. Whose strategy at this point is the best one? Time will tell. Also, there is no way to tell for sure but in the next scene where Russell is chopping wood, his pants look pretty dry and there is no rain water on his head, shoulders or torso, but I think when he says they're sucking each other's thumbs, its from a different time when its not pouring rain out. This is just to say that I saw the scene differently from you and we can agree to disagree! I found it to be highly contrived and like I said in a previous post, I think it goes to show that the game of Survivor is not going to be as easy in the long-run as Russhell thinks it is. Russhell's edit as winner is too perfect. Even the King of Fiji's winning edit wasn't as obvious so Russhell could stumble (for example: making a F2 pack with Laura could backfire on him in the end). Mick and Natalie could be the beneficiaries if ER goes on another scorched earth mission. The jury is going to be mostly Galu so Russhell will have to be very careful. One last comment on Erik's edit. When I was walking my dog, a chocolate lab, yesterday, I thought: that's what Erik's edit reminds me of: an exuberant and energetic puppy! Lovable but going off half-cocked some-of-the-time!
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-27-09, 09:20 PM (EST)
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99. "RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts" |
I agree with both of you that Mick's edit is not negative. With a 20 person cast, and the focus on the BIG character that they want water cooler talk on, editing missing the chance to drive home subtle points does not seem significant to me.I too think of Bob. He was not present during the portion of the game when he was not really playing, which was most of it. BUT they introduced him in Ep 1. That has been their pattern, to give us a connection with the winner in Ep 1, even if the winner falls out of sight immediately thereafter. Mick got the treatment; Natalie did not. Russell and Shambo clearly got it. If Natalie wins, they are breaking their pattern. They can do that, and they may. My observations are based on the way editing has been done in the past, especially in recent seasons. What Natalie has going for her is these strong and isolated moments of focus.
Against her, we don't get inside her head very often. That's why I said that if she wins, they did not find her compelling enough to give us the insight into her early game that a winner deserves.
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michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings
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10-28-09, 05:44 PM (EST)
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100. "RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts" |
I respect the opinion of you three tremendously so I'm not going to dismiss Mick. Let's see what he can bring! OFG, I just want to make clear that I don't think the editors are portraying Mick negatively to the point they want him to be disliked. All those scenes I pointed out were more like jabs they take at him instead of knock-out punches. It seems like a lack of respect for his opinion and his game that (talking of breaking patterns) I don't remember seeing done to any winner, not even Chris. For example, take Mick's shining moment in the last episode:  "We welcome it" he said They had enough cameras at TC to show a more impressive shot of Mick when he said those words. Instead, he's just one of the crowd.
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LFJ 363 desperate attention whore postings
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10-29-09, 12:08 PM (EST)
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106. "RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts" |
Michel,If you had to guess, who would you guess would play a better social game after merge? RussH, or Mick? There is no question that Russ plays the part of a bulldozer brilliantly. I wonder if there is any room for that among the Club Med members of Galu, who, as you say, outnumber the FF by a substantial margin - maybe almost 2 to 1 at merge? And, I still think there is a chance, however slim, as we, the viewers, don't see it, that while Natalie is riding Russ' coattails, Mick is hiding behind them.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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10-27-09, 09:04 PM (EST)
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98. "RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts" |
LAST EDITED ON 10-27-09 AT 09:12 PM (EST)Nah, the turtle was Russell, who had the idea to get in the water to find warmth. Also the body shape. For Natalie, they would use a Stick Fish. 
is that not much better than a turtle for Natalie? look how nearly invisible it is ...
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SquidProQuo 2526 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson"
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10-30-09, 02:16 AM (EST)
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109. "RE: Ep 6 editing thoughts" |
Actually, I noticed in tonight's opening sequence that they have a shot of the sea turtle immediately before Natalie. It could very well be that she is the sea turtle--and slow and steady wins the race.
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Georjanna 1316 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson"
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10-30-09, 01:43 AM (EST)
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108. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Survivor Samoa" |
LAST EDITED ON 10-30-09 AT 01:51 AM (EST)I can't wait to read everyone's summaries of this Episode's edit! Because, for the first time, I am really kind of excited about Samoa. I feel as though I've been promised a sequel: Yul, The Dark Side. But, I want to ask about Mick: Even though Russell received the merge confessional (in the preview), is it important that the only 'portrait' shots in the sequence were of Mick and that the second seemed (at least, to me) to place him at the 'head of the table'? And about Brett: Am I reading something into nothing, or is his stock definitely trending upward - at Erik's expense? 
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michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings
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10-31-09, 05:40 PM (EST)
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111. "Episode 7: Editing Thoughts" |
LAST EDITED ON 10-31-09 AT 05:45 PM (EST)The recap presented the weather as the biggest threat.
<Jaison shown being miserable>
Russell thrived.
At Galu… things were much more pleasurable.
For his own safety, Russell was taken out of the game, leaving his tribe without a leader.
Prior to tribal council, the majority of Foa Foa decided to send Liz home.
<Russell told Natalie he can talk Mick into writing down Liz no matter what>
While the majority at Galu decided to send Monica home.
<John said Monica didn’t help them win challenges>
At tribal council, everyone’s plans were put on hold when, out of respect for Russell’s traumatic medical evacuation, the vote was cancelled.
<Liz smiling, Monica relieved>
The loss of Russell re-ignited the rivalry between the 2 tribes.
<Erik throwing the gauntlet, Mick welcoming it>
But it also brought Foa Foa a growing glimmer of hope.
<Russell saying he really believed the tables were about to turn.
That was underlined by a huge smile from Natalie.> During this episode, we were reminded that:
There is a Social Game to PlayGalu
Night 15 Erik: “Losing Russell affects the game tremendously. He was our chief; he was probably the guy I had the most confidence in personally in this game. With Russell here, we had a 5-4 gender alliance lead but now… it’s just 4-4 so it’s anybody’s ballgame.
The 4 guys were talking about rewarding Shambo by getting her to the jury (!)
“Even though she’s a chick, Shambo doesn’t fit in with the other girls. We have to pull Shambo back over to our side and make sure Shambo is one of the dudes. The only way that plan unravels is if the girls lock in Shambo.”
Dave concluded: “When we’re down to final 5, we can burn her, no problem.” Foa Foa
Day 16 Jaison woke up saying: “Come on MickDreamy, let’s do it. No more glass half-empty.”
Mick stared in silence. Russell: “Tribal was real nice. When Jeff said we weren’t going to eliminate anybody, I knew Galu lost big Russell. I was stoked, we have a shot. It’s 5 to 8 now, it’s pretty damn close. Liz wasn’t voted out but it keeps the tribe stronger by keeping her. I rather win 3 in a row and then get rid of her.” Galu
The guys were on the beach when Erik proposed to elect Shambo chief.
Erik: “I was thinking about it, thinking about it and thinking about it: The way we’re going to lock Shambo in is not only to tell her “hey we’re cool with you” but us 4 guys are going to nominate her as our new chief. She’s going to feel so important and so flattered that she is going to be as deep in my pocket as the lint that’s at the very bottom of it.”
I pictured Seinfeld ironically telling Kramer: “Oh Yeah! This plan cannot possibly go wrong”
The vote was called and Shambo became a rubber stamp to the dismay of Monica, Kelly and Laura. Monica (who had voted for Erik): “I thought the way to elect a new leader was stupid. It went by so quickly that no one realized what happened. I don’t know how Shambo got elected leader when we were supposed to send Shambo home last night. I’m wondering; if there had been a vote last night, would I have been one of the people voted for?” Shambo gave her first speech while Laura’s face went through more contortions than someone with an unreachable itch between the shoulder blades. Dave: “I think us 4 guys plus getting Shambo as a wedge is a good plan. The only strategic drawback that I can think of is that Shambo is just so dim that she could screw up our plans if we tell her anything.”
The Challenge
Jeff asked Shambo if she was surprised about being the leader. She said she had experience leading.
<Russell and Laura shown observing>
Note that Mick had already discarded the leader necklace but Jeff didn’t mention it. Jeff asked Shambo to designate someone to act as leader since she wasn’t participating.
She answered Erik but Dave imposed Brett. Shambo corrected herself.
This funny moment reinforced Shambo’s role as puppet but I wonder why Dave was so insistent? Players shown making matches: Laura (x2), Brett (X2), John, Russell, Natalie and Monica. Considering that there were 12 matches, those 8 shown could be a clue. The editors could be telling us that these are the smart players although Monica wasn’t that smart when we heard her saying: “I’m not pointing; I’m just pointing at the rows”.
I’d be even more interested in knowing who made the 2 Galu and 2 Foa Foa matches that were ignored.
It is to be noted that Erik was shown making a spectacular fail; walking with a “cocky swagger” according to Jeff to the wrong item.
Also note that we never heard Mick making a choice between point and item like we saw Brett doing with confidence. Jeff told Galu: “Under the new leadership of Shambo, you continue to do very well in this game.”
<Mick is shown scratching his head.>
Shambo sent Laura to Foa Foa to keep her guys strong for the challenge.
Laura said she would take it for the team. Kelly: “Now that Shambo’s chief, it’s like she was raised in a trailer park, married a rich guy so now she’s driving around in a Jaguar, treating everyone like crap. She sent Laura over to the other tribe but Laura is one of our strongest females. I don’t know if she has a strategy or she’s pulling this out of her ass. I don’t know.” Mick: “We just walked away, losing again. Is there’s a jinx or some sort of curse on Foa Foa? I don’t know but I’m starting to be superstitious at this point.” Foa Foa
Day 16 The music was surprisingly upbeat when the tribe arrived in camp. It wasn’t the kind of music associated with failing tribes.
Natalie presented herself to Laura who then shook hands with Mick, Liz and Russell. Laura: “At Foa Foa camp, everybody is really friendly. They’re doing their very best to make me feel comfortable and I sincerely appreciate it. There’s definitely an undercurrent why Sham sent me over to the Foa Foa tribe. Clearly she doesn’t like me.” Russell asked Laura to help him find crabs but he had ideas of planting another Russell seed.
The two bonded by talking about their kids and religion.
Russell to Laura: “Eventually, your head’s going to be on the chopping block, it may not be as fast as mine but eventually it will. If we can get together, you can protect me at the merge and I can protect you. I hope it’s final 3… I hope it would be me, you and Natalie in the final 3.” (Russell’s confessional was inserted here) “I can spot a good Christian anytime. It’s easy. I’m starting to really like you now.” Russell: “I was happy when they decided to send Laura to our camp because it doesn’t look like we’re going with numbers into a merge so what I have to do now is work my Houdini Magic on Laura. I’m still working her, working her, working her like a fine tool until she’s sharpened enough just like I want her.” Laura: “Russell came to me and was conspiring to have this secret alliance that, clearly, nobody would ever suspect. You know that’s another part that I stick in my pocket that I might want to play. It’s food for thought.” Russell concluded their talks by saying that Laura’s idol clue was worthless, that Ben had found the idol, hid it somewhere but never played it. The reward: Pirate Master revisited
Erik: “The reward was phenomenal…Honestly, I feel like I don’t really deserve that. What have I done in life that’s been so great to have that kind of an opportunity?”
Kelly and Dave took turns at the wheel.
Dave: “They fed us this beef stew that was delicious… I was having a good time, man!” Shambo was happy to enjoy this after 16 days in hell while Monica told her she appreciated not being sent to Foa Foa. Monica: “Shambo ended up sending Laura to the other camp. I think that it was her own little way of saying: “I’m leader now and what I say goes.” She’d never admit that.”
Foa Foa
While Liz was working the fire, Natalie and Laura were talking and getting to know each other.
Liz: “You know, I understand we have a guest. Laura’s come here to hang out with us until the next immunity challenge but I don’t really need to hear her and Natalie talking about the spiritual book of the month behind my back when I’m trying to get a fire started so we can eat and drink. It’s really infuriating because they are not really helping. It’s time to start a fire. All they’re doing is sitting there, picking their toes and catching up on good times. It’s really frustrating, disappointing and, at times, rather infuriating.”
She complained to Russell. Russell: “Liz is so stupid. I don’t see how she can even walk without falling down. This is just ridiculous. If we merge, we need somebody on the inside and Natalie is doing a good job talking to Laura around the camp. I have to keep Natalie for my little toy. She has to be there for me so I can manipulate her little mind and do what I want her to do. When it comes to this game, you better be street-smart and Liz has a mouth on her and I don’t think she knows when to shut up. I’m going to have to keep my eye on her.” The immunity Challenge Laura returned to a nice welcome from Galu.
Shambo had trouble remembering John’s name to tell Jeff he was sitting out.
Much like the audience who must have trouble knowing the names of the Galu players. Monica and Laura also sat out. Jeff asked Mick: “Where’s the leadership necklace?”
M: “We left it back. We were wondering if, maybe, it was bad luck.”
J: “But you still have a leader?”
M: “Yes. Absolutely.”
J: “As long as you have a leader, the necklace is merely symbolic. We’ll see if it makes a difference.” Jaison used his height to push the boat to such a big lead that Galu copied his idea. Unfortunately, it exhausted him “Foa Foa getting it done without Jaison”
Jaison was terrible during the puzzle.
Wasn’t Natalie supposed to be good at puzzles? For Galu, the thing to note was Dave constantly telling Shambo to shut up and that, during the puzzle, Dave (despite his high IQ!) was mainly seen as a cheerleader; Kelly and Brett doing all the work. Shambo received the idol from Jeff and relayed it to Brett in an apparent show of respect.
Jeff said: “Mick, it looks like it wasn’t the necklace.”
Now, wasn’t that a punch to the chin? Jeff was showing no respect to Mick’s leadership. Russell : “These idiots are probably going to cost me a million dollars. I was planning on having a lot of fun with the money, a lot of fun. Maybe we need to get rid of Jaison because he gave up out there. He was looking at the puzzle as if it was going to move itself. We’ve got to mix something up. Whatever happens; happens.” Deciding the Vote A shark preceded Russell into camp. Natalie and Liz were working on the fire.
Nothing was made of it but twice now the women have proven Ben wrong Russell: “This whole time I was: “Get rid of Liz, get rid of Liz.” Jaison gave up when we were pushing the boat and then he was so tired that he couldn’t get up there and do the puzzle. It’s amazing to me that he can’t get these puzzles down. I don’t know, he’s sure not going to be my attorney.”
Russell then asked Mick how someone who went to medical school and someone who went to Oxford and Stanford couldn’t finish a puzzle.
Mick couldn’t explain it. Jaison: “I have no idea what’s going to happen with this vote tonight. I did not perform well on the puzzle…I felt like dead-weight to the team. For all I know, they could be voting me out.” Liz told Russell: “I thought Natalie should have done the puzzle”
So, it’s not only me! Russell told Liz the 2 options were Natalie and Jaison. Liz: “With tonight’s tribal council, my survivor stock has gone up because I certainly thought the vote would be between me and Natalie just because we are physically, smaller, weaker than the 3 guys. But, I guess strategically, it may make more sense for Jaison to go and I’m actually quite thrilled because I would have never anticipated that.” Russell: “I have a decision to make. It’s going to have to be either Liz or Jaison. The thing with Liz is I don’t know if we can trust her once the merge happens. But, the thing with Jaison is that, I still think I can trust the guy but we still have to think about winning challenges. We’re losing with the team we have, we have to find some way to win. Something has to give.”
Tribal Council
Jeff saw no use of going over the dismal facts but he did, pointing out that Foa Foa had lost 8 of 10 challenges, would be down 4 to 8 and offered one of the worst performances by any tribe in the history of the game. He asked Natalie about the tribe’s attitude: “Still hanging in there?” Natalie: “Absolutely! It doesn’t do any good to get negative so we have to go into any challenge with our heads up because, if we don’t, then we’re done.” Russell: “All we can do is hope for the merge because they outplayed us, they outlasted us but there’s one thing I can promise you: Them kids over there, there is no way in hell that they can outwit me.”
Liz said she would trust everyone if it got to a merge: “After all these tribal councils, I absolutely trust each and every one of these people 100%.”
Mick: “The performance aspect, we haven’t done great but there’s still a social game to be played and that trust is at the absolute core of our survival.”
Russell said it would be hard to vote one more but: “If the 4 can hold together, the whole thing is going to change.”
<The camera lingered on Natalie while Russell spoke. Then it switched to Liz and Jaison.>
Jaison explained he was frustrated with losing. “I feel I have a large responsibility in these losses…If they decide that my performance today warrants me to walk away, I hope that is what is necessary for them to win tomorrow.” After Liz left, Jeff told them they were getting really good at blindsides, something they will certainly need to do.
The storyIf it hadn’t been already clear, the portrayal of Foa Foa, especially at tribal council and in the choice of music to accompany their scenes, isn’t the same as we have seen associated with failing tribes in the past. We saw that the game isn’t really 8 on 4 but really is 4 Foa Foas, 4 Galu men, 3 Galu women and Shambo. If this is the case, Foa Foa won the social game.
Also note that all the men remaining have mentioned being afraid of a women’s alliance even if it has yet to come into play. Galu’s division was created by John, Erik and Dave even if we saw Monica voting Erik as leader.
This episode showed us Brett, Laura and maybe even Kelly as the smart players. The CharactersMonica: We saw her thanking Shambo for the reward, making the clinching point in the challenge (even if that could be a fabrication) and we saw her questioning the rigged election. Monica was shown as a positive character when the focus had to be on Yasmin’s negativity. She became a negative one when the editors wanted us to cheer for the isolated Shambo. Now, Monica’s edit is back on a small upswing, probably just to make us appreciate the turning of the tables on the 4 guys. Kelly: “Her confessional was quite bitchy but we saw her carefully observing the election returns and then play a central part in solving the puzzle. Could it be to make us accept the overthrow of the Galu tribe? Last season’s impression was Timbira being dumb rather than JT being smart. Maybe a correction was needed so that the players breaking up Galu appear to be making a good game move, even if they’re not as smart as the Foa Foa alliance. John: The initiator of Galu’s plan became completely irrelevant in this episode. His turn will come and he’ll pay for dividing his tribe but he’s not that important right now. Dave: He continues to simply narrate the events. His confessional on the ship only told us that the beef stew was good. At least, his first confessional had more meat to it even if it mainly told us about the plan’s flaw. Dave himself showed why Shambo could derail it; he pulled much too hard on those puppet strings. Erik: He told us he didn’t deserved the reward. How can we expect him to be deserving of the title of Sole Survivor? The plan that looks doomed to fail was originally John’s but the story turned it into Erik’s plan. He told us about the new development and how to lock in Shambo. It indicates that Erik will suffer from the failure of the plan before John. He should pay for the cockiness we saw in the challenge. Brett: This insignificant player is suddenly shown as a smart player, deserving of the immunity idol after the challenge and making all the right calls during the reward challenge. It could be to prepare us to see him play an interesting, albeit secondary role in the upcoming events. Jaison: He continues to struggle even under sunny conditions. He looks like someone Russell could sacrifice in order to gain trust from the other side. Mick: His intervention at TC appeared to underline the theme of this season and to foreshadow how this season will unfold. This is a social game but, even if he seems well liked, we haven’t seen Mick doing much playing. There hasn’t been a scene with him and one of the visitors and his opinions before a vote don’t seem to count.
When Jaison told him to look at the new day with optimism, Mick didn’t say a word. Instead, Russell was the one that gave a confessional.
We heard that Mick saw the pattern of the puzzle but there were scenes that continued to mock his self-proclaimed leadership skills. He had told us that Natalie was good with puzzles, we even heard Liz say that Natalie should have done the puzzle but Jaison was chosen. Was Jeff’s “It wasn’t the necklace” left in JUST because it was a funny sound bite? I don’t think so. Laura: The episode showed us why she should go with Foa Foa and why it won’t pay off for her in the long run. From being considered a second class citizen in Galu, she moved up to become a fine tool of Foa Foa. If she does pick that option, I’d say it isn’t much of an improvement. Shambo: She played the role of puppet leader to perfection but she must have felt something was wrong with that vote. It’s strange that we didn’t hear Foa Foa react about her new role. They thought she was marginalized and then they see her as the chosen leader. Usually, when we don’t hear anything about something like this, it’s because it amounts to nothing in the end. Shambo should still be available if Foa Foa needs her. Russell “Them kids over there, there is no way in hell that they can outwit me.”
In every other season, that would sound like setting someone up for a fall. This time however, it sounds like a promise. Russell fooled Laura into trusting him. He knows Laura and Shambo don’t get along. I think he will use one against the other, keep them around to keep the conflict brewing just like he wanted Ben to stick around. With the votes of the 3 Galu women, Russell would hold the majority but we saw that some Galu players are smart. The editing suggests that they figure they can control Foa Foa until F9. What happens then? 5-4 is a weak majority. Does Russell win? I would suggest that, for the biggest villain ever, Russell is showing a lot of smart game play. He is the story of the season but it was strange to let us hear that he was planning on having fun with the money. It seemed quite unnecessary and not meant to make him likable. Can someone stop him? One player told us how she plans on doing just that: Natalie: If this is a social game, Natalie will win. We have now seen her making strong connections with Shambo and Laura, the “leaders” of the 2 opposing factions in Galu. It seemed important to hear Russell deciding to keep Natalie because he saw her being smarter about the end game than Liz. Her positive attitude at TC showed a sharp contrast to Jaison’s gloom and Mick’s resignation.
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Slider 29 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
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10-31-09, 08:45 PM (EST)
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112. "RE: Episode 7: Editing Thoughts" |
Hey everyone, I don't post much, but there were a few things that struck me about the last episode.Michel, I really look forward to your recaps and observations. I did not notice the upswing in Brett's edit. I do feel that Eric's comments on the reward made him seem to be a character on a journey, that the reward was more than he deserved. I am sure it was edited to make him seem that he reached his goal if he fails since he has been a likable character. Also likable to this point is Dave, but he did seem to be rude to Shambo, and we are supposed to pull for her. As for the women of Galu, I think they're all getting a pretty bad edit. I felt that Monica did not seem sincere talking to Shambo, maybe that was the nicest comment she got from the Galu women, so they included it. I thought it was hypocritical of Laura and Kelly to feel that Laura was above being sent to the other tribe, especially when Shambo had been sent twice. They would have had no problems continuing to send Shambo. There was a definite upswing in Natalie's edit, she is shown being smart and sociable. Other than Russell being a jerk (mainly during confessionals), Jaison being shown to be lazy, and Mick not showing a lot of leadership, I agree that the Foa Foa tribe has been handled a lot better than most tribes that continue to lose. Interesting side-note: until now, I don't think we've been shown that the Foa Foa tribe knew that Jaison was a lawyer and Mick was a doctor. One last thought: Is it just me, or does John yawn in all episodes? Thanks for letting me join in, Slider
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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11-02-09, 06:00 PM (EST)
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116. "RE: Episode 7: Editing Thoughts" |
Welcome, Slider! Very helpful post, hope to see more!
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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11-02-09, 06:53 PM (EST)
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118. "RE: Episode 7: Editing Thoughts" |
I agree about Natalie's new edit, totally. I don't like their choice to not let us into her head in Ep 1, but I think that's the call they made, to break pattern.The only thing I see in Russell's favor for winning is that Jeff said Bob or JT wouldn't have been able to win this season doing their nice guy schtick. He mentioned this in two interviews.
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"The last two Survivors were won by self-styled "nice guys" and magnanimous leader types: 24-year-old Alabama cattle rancher James "J.T." Thomas Jr. (Survivor Tocantins: The Brazilian Highlands) and 57-year-old high-school physics teacher Robert "Bob" Crowley (Survivor Gabon: Earth's Last Eden). Probst cautioned against reading too much into that, though. "I don't think there are any trends. I think you can have coincidences, where a nice guy wins a couple of times in a row. "This season, we have one of our most dastardly guys ever. One of the greatest villains in our history. And this is our 19th season. He's had to beat a lot of people. And somebody like that could still theoretically win the game, if they pulled a Richard Hatch." Hatch, a corporate motivational speaker from Rhode Island, famously won the original Survivor in the summer of 2000 by convincing the others that he used guile, deceit and outright deception to outwit, outplay and outlast more pleasant personalities, and therefore deserved to win. "Nobody does that anymore," Probst said. "Nobody gets up and says, 'I kicked your #####; now give me the money.'" That may change with Survivor: Samoa, Probst hinted. TV Guide Preview, Segment One:
"I think this season is going to have a lot of big moves. I don't think Bob from Gabon or JT from Tocantins would survive playing the same way. I don't think the All-American nice person who never has to betray is gonna win. I think we're going to see a lot of betrayals." While the first quote is a definite hype for Russell, it is the TV Guide quote that interests me, where he says the nice social game won't win it. That seems to say that the coattail riding approach, letting ER get all the blood on his hands, is not going to work. To me, Natalie seems like the All American nice person of the group. Mick is edited nice, but Probst said he seemed to Probst like a devious player and a callous user. (However, have seen nothing to suggest Probst is right about this first impression, and Probst does seem to have doctor issues.) In sum, I see what Natalie's edit is doing, and it certainly makes sense that the Galu folks would vote for a pretty nice person over Mr. Evil, but am just keeping Probst's remarks under advisement. Re the Mick leadership edit difference of opinion: I continue to agree that Mick's leadership skills are non-existent on the show, but I continue to disagree that this is so bad for Mick. The jab by Probst seemed to me to be towards the tribe. Jaison lost them the challenge. It was not Mick's poor choice. Jaison got them the big lead, and then he pooped out. He is running on fumes. The other tribe had a reward. I went back and looked up what Jeff said about the "leader" twist, in his EW Popwatch intro video: the notion is to see "whether a leader can survive in this game, coming into it with that target on their back, and is it different if you say 'I want to be the leader' vs. you were appointed the leader by your tribe." NOT
How good a leader can each leader be?
but
Can someone appointed leader dodge the bullet and survive in the game? I would say MICK has proved that YES it can be done. Not only has he dodged the bullet on his own tribe that has booted five players but not the chief -- which I find a quite remarkable accomplishment for someone who doesn't have an HII -- he is going into the merge behind Russell H as a target. He let Russell get into it with Erik at that joint TC. If Mick had been a strong chief, first move Galu would make is cut the head off the opposing tribe. Where I think Mick's edit is weak is that we don't hear much from him except his frustration over losing all the challenges and the miserable conditions. That is a decent Underdog edit, but we have yet to see him express a real strategy.
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michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings
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11-02-09, 07:52 PM (EST)
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119. "RE: Episode 7: Editing Thoughts" |
Welcome aboard Slider and thank you for the comments. Brett's upswing was faint and could be all in my imagination but I found it interesting that the 2nd most invisible character in Survivor history suddenly became someone we had to notice; Dave shouting: "Not Erik. BRETT! BRETT!" Brett was shown saying "Item" or "Point" quite confidently and he made 2 matches while others were not shown. I hope you continue posting. OFG:
I see Jiffy's interviews as a way to get us hooked on the season but feel (hope?) that once the season starts, the story can still surprise us.
"The jab by Probst seemed to me to be towards the tribe."
Maybe, but then, the camera focusing on Mick scratching his head just as Jeff said: "Under the leadership of Shambo, Galu continues to win." Shambo??? "There's fish in the ocean" Shambo! Better than Mick according to Jeff and uncle camerman.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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11-02-09, 08:20 PM (EST)
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120. "RE: Episode 7: Editing Thoughts" |
Yes, the season can surprise us, but Jeff has made a comment about the ending for the last two seasons. He said we would like the ending of Gabon (and implied we would not like it all).He said that Tocantins had a great winner. He says twice this season not to expect the same kind of good guy ending. So, if he continues to be truthful about the feel of the ending, that should be legit. Now perhaps all the Finalists will betray and backstab, and by the end Russell will not be the only one who has to ask for votes from people he or she made promises. That's quite possible. Re the Mick deal, you and I just see that one differently, clearly, because every point you make hit me differently, as a viewer. I thought the Shambo's leadership comment was a) a boost for Shambo, because Jeff likes Shambo and has seen her marginalized. b) a bit of a joke, because Dave vetoed Shambo's most significant decision for all to hear. Plus the girls have sour looks on their faces. You make more of subtleties than I do (with this show). If Jeff had a criticism of one of Mick's leadership decisions, that really harmed Foa Foa, he would let Mick have it with both barrels, because Jeff is clearly irked that the season is turning out perilously close to pre-merge Palau. But he has not lambasted Mick. He praised Shambo to reinforce her new position. I do think Jeff may have been irked that they left the leader necklace at camp, as they took it on themselves to break the ritual, and Jeff doesn't like that sort of thing. Also it confused him as to what it meant, and Jeff doesn't like to be blindsided when he's trying to run his script of the moment. I just don't see the constant "look at the bad leader, this guy is a bad player" inferences from the editing choices that you see. That's OK. Viewers overall are far more diverse than you and I in their perceptions.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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11-03-09, 05:41 AM (EST)
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121. "RE: Episode 7: Editing Thoughts" |
I rewatched the episode, and I honestly didn't see a negative edit on Mick. I was more impressed when I paid attention. He fielded every Jeff question well, with dignity and expressing appropriate emotions and sentiments. I like Mick a lot, probably the most of any player this season. Erik second. He is not a blonde Barbie or a cartoon character, or a 90210, or a quitter. I like him for what I see on the show, so his edit can't be that bad!
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PepeLePew13 26134 desperate attention whore postings
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11-03-09, 08:26 AM (EST)
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122. "RE: Episode 7: Editing Thoughts" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-03-09 AT 07:26 PM (EST)While the first quote is a definite hype for Russell, it is the TV Guide quote that interests me, where he says the nice social game won't win it. That seems to say that the coattail riding approach, letting ER get all the blood on his hands, is not going to work. To me, Natalie seems like the All American nice person of the group. Mick is edited nice, but Probst said he seemed to Probst like a devious player and a callous user. (However, have seen nothing to suggest Probst is right about this first impression, and Probst does seem to have doctor issues.) FWIW, I see Mick more as the "All American nice person" than Natalie. He's MickDreamy, the All-American guy-next-door that you can easily see yourself hanging out with in the backyard with a beer in hand, talking about the football game. By contrast, I see Natalie as the social butterfly of the group but also a bit standoffish and spoiled as well, even if she's been shown getting down and dirty at times (i.e. working on the fire with Liz in the last episode). She doesn't strike me as the girl I'd find next door.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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11-03-09, 04:25 PM (EST)
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123. "RE: Episode 7: Editing Thoughts" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-03-09 AT 04:47 PM (EST)I agree, Pepe. I don't know what Jeff saw or imagined in Mick, but it's not coming through to the audience. Natalie comes off as well schooled in social graces but, as you said, spoiled, and to me she seems cold. Natalie or Natalie's edit frustrates me. I have zero interest or investment in Natalie's chances. I don't know if she didn't give editing anything to work with or whether they made bad decisions by withholding her. One thing I've noticed though, is that because they withheld Natalie from us, any time she appears and speaks about strategy it seems much more significant than when Mick or anyone else who we hear more from talks to us. What she says is not all that interesting if we heard it over and over, but it has impact because she rarely gets lines. Will be interesting to see if that changes with the merge.
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michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings
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11-03-09, 06:51 PM (EST)
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124. "RE: Episode 7: Editing Thoughts" |
"I like him for what I see on the show, so his edit can't be that bad!"I certainly see a "good guy" edit for Mick. That was never in question. The problem is the absence of game talk. He has none, somewhat like Boo in Fiji without the injuries and the challenge wins. Or maybe Gregg in Palau. No, Gregg at least talked about changing the game. Erik in China? I'm also confused why you think he has such a good edit but still favor Russell and Natalie over him as winner. It's his flaws that make me doubt he can win but if one sees no flaws...? "Natalie or Natalie's edit frustrates me...One thing I've noticed though, is that because they withheld Natalie from us, any time she appears and speaks about strategy it seems much more significant than when Mick or anyone else who we hear more from talks to us." That's because, besides Russell, Natalie, Erik and Laura, everybody else including Mick has been caught in the present tense. Those 4 mentioned have talked about the end game (for Laura, it was only in the latest episode because Russell made her think about it) but all the others haven't looked passed the next boot. Mick's memorable confessionals have been about the taste of chicken, the comfort of the tree and... what else? Oh yes! He never knows what will happen at TC, his tribe sucks and he's becoming superstitious. The only time Mick was decisive was to vote out the nice Betsy over the evil Ben. That would have been the time to hide Mick.
If Natalie wins, her winning quote would have been her TC answer while sitting between Jaison and Ben. It went something like "I'm leaning back in case punches start to fly." I'd find it quite funny compared to all the in-your-face comments some winners have given. Funnier still this season because of the contrast with Russell's dozens of winning quotes: "I didn't come here to work, I came here to play", "Winning this game is easy", "I'm the only one playing this game", "These idiots are going to cost me a million dollars", etc...
As we say in French: "Trop, c'est comme pas assez."
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suzzee 5961 desperate attention whore postings
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11-05-09, 11:52 AM (EST)
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125. "RE: Episode 7: Editing Thoughts" |
Late to the party as usual but you pointed out this part:Jeff asked Shambo to designate someone to act as leader since she wasn’t participating.
She answered Erik but Dave imposed Brett. Shambo corrected herself.
This funny moment reinforced Shambo’s role as puppet but I wonder why Dave was so insistent? This makes me wonder if Dave's comment about her being so dim came after this incident. Not a big deal but I wonder if he wasn't totally on board with making Shambo the leader. It seemed like decisions were made and she was filled in at the last minute. We won't get a chance to see if Brett is second in command in situations like this (because of the merge) but it makes me wonder who is the real "leader" of the Galu boys club is. In another thought, Shambo declined S20 (at least that's what I heard somewhere) I'm wondering if she didn't get thoroughly embarrassed at some point through this season. It seems pretty obvious that editing is making somewhat of a fool of her.
Bad girls have all the fun
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goldenmike4393 303 desperate attention whore postings
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11-05-09, 01:21 PM (EST)
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126. "RE: Episode 7: Editing Thoughts" |
I heard somewhere that RussHELL feigns a love interest and wonder if Shambo is his victim...
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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11-02-09, 06:02 PM (EST)
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117. "RE: New editing thread post-merge" |
Glad you said that, BR. I'd been thinking the same.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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12-05-09, 11:42 PM (EST)
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130. "RE: New editing thread post-merge" |
I'm bumping this not to post about later episodes but for reference. Specifically so that we can recheck our first impressions. This topic isn't linked to the second topic so I had to hunt for it.
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