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"NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 preview""
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b1whois 126 desperate attention whore postings
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11-05-08, 08:13 PM (EST)
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"NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 preview""
it is over at CBS at the bottom of the videos page under the heading "cast interviews". it is new material showing new kota and something that randy digs out of the sand at the feast??? i can't listen to the audio at work, so i am waiting for some one else to tell me what it says! i think we should analyze this material under our OFG theory and, of course, the B1 corollary...

ps, thanks for all of the support over on the insider thread from OFG, tribephyl, BR, michael and flopo...and....i am a chick BTW!

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 pr... CTgirl 11-05-08 1
   RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 pr... michel 11-05-08 2
       RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 pr... CTgirl 11-05-08 3
           RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 pr... Outfrontgirl 11-05-08 4
               RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 pr... michel 11-05-08 5
                   RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 pr... Outfrontgirl 11-05-08 6
                       RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 pr... michel 11-05-08 8
   RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 pr... byoffer 11-06-08 12
       RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 pr... Brownroach 11-06-08 14
           RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 pr... emydi 11-06-08 15
               RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 pr... Brownroach 11-06-08 16
                   RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 pr... emydi 11-06-08 17
                   RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 pr... CTgirl 11-06-08 18
                       RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 pr... guardian 11-06-08 25
 RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 pr... Outfrontgirl 11-05-08 7
   RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 pr... Flowerpower 11-06-08 10
 For B1 tribephyl 11-06-08 9
 RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 pr... Brownroach 11-06-08 11
 RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 pr... emydi 11-06-08 13
 Who's really good and evil? Corvis 11-06-08 19
   RE: Who's really good and evil? Outfrontgirl 11-06-08 20
   RE: Who's really good and evil? Brownroach 11-06-08 21
       RE: Who's really good and evil? Flowerpower 11-06-08 22
           RE: Who's really good and evil? Brownroach 11-06-08 23
               RE: Who's really good and evil? Outfrontgirl 11-06-08 24
                   RE: Who's really good and evil? Brownroach 11-06-08 27
                       RE: Who's really good and evil? Georjanna 11-10-08 30
                           RE: Who's really good and evil? byoffer 11-10-08 31
                               RE: Who's really good and evil? Georjanna 11-11-08 32
                   RE: Who's really good and evil? b1whois 11-06-08 29
               RE: Who's really good and evil? Corvis 11-06-08 26
                   RE: Who's really good and evil? Outfrontgirl 11-06-08 28

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CTgirl 8013 desperate attention whore postings
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11-05-08, 08:50 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 preview""
LAST EDITED ON 11-05-08 AT 08:53 PM (EST)

Here's the transcript. Thank you Survivor Fever!

Promo Transcript:

Jeff Probst: One of the hardest things on this show for us to do is to outfox the Survivors. We've done so many twists they predict them all. Every so often we get lucky that's what happens this episode. They think a merge is coming. They may be wrong, for once they actually may be wrong.

Charlie (confessional): I thought there were going to be 10 new buffs in the box and that we were going to be a merged tribe. I just never in a million years predicted it.

Randy: The game has changed once again, enjoy the adventure.

Jeff Probst: There's also one of the most interesting things that's ever happened with an immunity idol happens in this episode and it will leave you scratching your head much the same way you scratched your head when Erik gave up immunity in last season's Survivor, Fans Vs. Favorites. And a big theme begins to emerge and this is one that's going to carry out for the rest of the season and it's good versus bad. There are some people that decide, "you know what, we are good people and one of us should win, they're bad people and they shouldn't." That is a battle that will play out now, the bad, mean, ugly people versus the pretty, nice, good people. Who do you want to win?

Sounds like Fang will go to tribal and how the heck does Sugar use or not use her idol? Does she give it to "good" Matty and get voted out herself?

ETA: the video is up on Survivor Phoenix and You Tube so you don't have to watch the ad on CBS.


surfkitty sig shop 2007

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michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings
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11-05-08, 09:17 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 preview""
Thanks CTgirl for this but now what do I do? Rewrite the SOTS? Most of my reasoning was based on the fact that we hadn't heard anything about the idol coming into play.


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CTgirl 8013 desperate attention whore postings
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11-05-08, 09:23 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 preview""
Yikes, what a mess! Why did CBS have to wait until this afternoon??!!

I'd just put an addendum at the bottom of your SOTS that says new info came to light. I wouldn't rewrite it.

This is a crazy episode. I hope it's as good as the hype!

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11-05-08, 09:43 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 preview""
CBS had to wait because otherwise we knew Marcus, Crystal, et al were safe. I think we were intended to worry about Marcus (playbook out the window clip).

However, there was the clue I've been harping on over and over which is Randy is at the center of the promos i.e. Randy is going to make a move, i.e. nuFang is going to TC.

At least I can stop battling that one and now we can ponder who is bad and good and how might the idol be used.

We also have a confirmation that the Surivors had every expectation the box had merge buffs in it.


Let us not then suspect our happy state left so imperfect by theMaker wise, as not secure to single or combined.
Frail is our happiness if this be so, and Eden were no Eden thus exposed." ~ John Milton, Paradise Lost, IX

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michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings
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11-05-08, 10:14 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 preview""
"there was the clue I've been harping on over and over which is Randy is at the center of the promos"

I made my concession speech in the SOTS!

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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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11-05-08, 10:31 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 preview""
I truly apologize if that came off as an I told you so, no concession necessary.

I've watched the video a couple times and it does highlight certain people with the good and bad, although it moves awfully fast.

Marcus talking to Crystal. GOOD people

(Even though most of us consider Crystal a big downer, we know Crystal considers herself and Kenny GOOD. She told Matty he was becoming EVIL.)
switches to BAD
Randy -
Matty with kind of an evil grin
Corinne and Charlie

Pretty, nice, good -
Sugar. Bob

I don't see Susie and Kenny in that clip.

I'm thinking that Marcus and Corinne might just part ways here. That Marcus, upon meeting new people, might decide they're good people and his little club has been kind of snotty, as Dan said it was.

What if Marcus realigns, hooking up with Crystal, Kenny, staying with Bob, and possibly including Susie?

Say that Randy, Matty, and Corinne get together (not sure about Charlie, who has seemed good to me), and become the BAD? Crystal told Matty he had turned to the dark side in that secret scene - maybe that's why we see it.

That would make Sugar the target on nuFang, don't you think?
ALSO
when Jeff says AN immunity idol (not THE immunity idol) we see Randy digging the object out of the sand.

What if Randy gets an immunity at the feast and no wonder he is drunk with power saying he rules? And what if he tries to protect Matty with it? Dunno ...

The problem with Randy leaving is perhaps the loss of a bad character would stunt the theme before it got going?

Perhaps Sugar is going home, although I thought she was longer for the game.


Let us not then suspect our happy state left so imperfect by the Maker wise, as not secure to single or combined.
Frail is our happiness if this be so, and Eden were no Eden thus exposed." ~ John Milton, Paradise Lost, IX

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michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings
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11-05-08, 11:09 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 preview""
"I truly apologize if that came off as an I told you so"

No need to apologize, I always take this in good humor. I've rarely had so much fun trying to figure out what's going on.

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byoffer 15947 desperate attention whore postings
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11-06-08, 11:08 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 preview""
My guess is that Sugar gives the HII to Matty to assure him he is safe. Then feeling safe, he doesn't feel the need to play it, and Sugar back stabs him by voting him out and he leaves the game with the HII in his pocket.

This would be different from James leaving the game with the HIIs, as this time the HII will be used by Sugar to make Matty feel safe, and then voting him out anyway.

This would be a brilliant move by Sugar. Holding the HII when it isn't a secret makes her a target. Using it in this way would take that target off of her, eliminate Matty who may target her for getting Ace, and certainly endear her to the rest of the remaining Survivors.


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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
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11-06-08, 11:20 AM (EST)
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14. "RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 preview""
LAST EDITED ON 11-06-08 AT 12:03 PM (EST)

Holding the HII when it isn't a secret makes her a target

But it is a secret to the people who will be joining her tribe. Only Matty will know she has it. Assuming he doesn't blab to the others, they won't be sure.

ETA: Unless someone spills the beans during the feast and everyone gets wind of it before they find out there is no merge.

Surfkitten Summer Sigshop 2008

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emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings
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11-06-08, 11:34 AM (EST)
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15. "RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 preview""
I think Matty will tell Randy about Sugar's HI and then Randy thinks up the plan for Matty to get Sugar to give him the idol and also get her to vote Randy not Matty.


My 2 scenarios are either Sugar goes after she gives Matty HI and he doesn't play it and Sugar goes in a 4-1 vote where Sugar thinks it will be a 3-2 Matty-Randy vote with Matty booting Randy by playing HI.

Or

Sugar gives him HI and he doesn't play it and he is blindsided by Sugar and Randy.

Both scenarios have Sugar giving her idol away and it not being used. In the first Matty keeps it for later use and in the second Matty carries it off and joins James Jason and Ozzy with a lovely parting gift in Loser Lodge.


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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
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11-06-08, 01:37 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 preview""
LAST EDITED ON 11-06-08 AT 02:15 PM (EST)

Interesting cap at SurvivorPhoenix:

Matty, Corinne, Charlie, and Sugar in a huddle at new Fang, with Randy nowhere in sight.

I really can't see Sugar giving Matty the idol and then blindsiding him. What would be the point?

But what about this as a scenario:

1) Sugar and Matty try to convince Corinne and Charlie to vote Randy out. He was gladhanding everyone at the feast and has been in alliances with members of both tribes. He can't be trusted. Charlie and Corinne see their point.

2) But Corinne and Charlie also see the value of keeping Randy since he has been in their alliance most recently, and it gives them numbers. Plus Randy is obnoxious and a good F2 opponent. Matty on the other hand they have no ties to, and he could go on a potential immunity run.

3) Corinne and Charlie are afraid to vote for Sugar because of the idol factor. So the choice for them is between Randy and Matty.

4) Matty thinks he, Sugar, Corinne and Charlie are voting for Randy. Randy thinks he, Corinne and Charlie are voting for Matty. Sugar is either approached by Charlie and Corinne to join them in voting out Matty, or she somehow finds out that they may vote for Matty.

5) Sugar realizes that Matty is in trouble and gives him the II and tells him he needs to play it at TC, otherwise he may go home. Matty takes the HII but he still trusts that the four are going to vote for Randy.

6) At TC, before the votes are read, no one plays the HII. The votes are Matty, Randy, Randy, Matty...Matty. Matty should have listened to Sugar.

I already cast my vote for Sugar since Probst decided to reveal that something happens with the idol but now I wonder if he would have revealed that if Sugar is the one who is going.
And though my other choice has been Randy I really can't see how Randy would leave in a bungled idol play. So it's leading me to Matty. Maybe?


Surfkitten Summer Sigshop 2008

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emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings
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11-06-08, 01:44 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 preview""
I think if Matty goes, he will walk out with Sugar's HI in his pocket. But i think Sugar's story may be over with Ace leaving last week. If Sugar leaves, it will be with Matty "stealing" the idol from her and not using it.

I'm not sure Randy will be able to be voted for, that bag he dug out of the sand could be a regular II that only can be used during this one tc

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CTgirl 8013 desperate attention whore postings
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11-06-08, 01:59 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 preview""
LAST EDITED ON 11-06-08 AT 02:02 PM (EST)

That photo was one of the reasons that I voted for Randy yesterday. Now that we know the idol comes into play, my head is spinning with confusion!

Last night, based on the lone Matty vidcaps, I was all ready to vote for Matty's exit. Today I still think he could go home, but it could also point to him being the only original Fang who is still a Fang. He's definately isolated.

Then I reread what Jeff said about the idol, "This has never happened. It's that power of the idol that confuses everybody. Nobody's quite sure how to handle it. It gets to a point where it's almost too much power and it does you in. I find that fascinating. This is the one thing that can keep you safe in the game and yet – if you're not careful – it’s the thing that will get you voted out the fastest." If he's refering to this episode, then it seems like Sugar doesn't know how to handle the power and it does her in. The vidcaps point to her having a conversation with Matty and crying. She could easily mishandle the idol, but who gets burned, Sugar or Matty? Like you, I keep on going back-and-forth. In my mind, both of their stories could be over; but if Sugar goes, then that leaves Matty to go up against "the suits" at merge.

ETA: Emy, I like the idea that Randy can't be voted against this week only. That is who Sugar would obviously vote for if she could. But if he's immune, I can't imagine that someone wouldn't also play Sugar's HII. There are just too few people left to take a chance.

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guardian 12 desperate attention whore postings
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11-06-08, 06:34 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 preview""
I can't imagine that Sugar will team up with Randy, and I think Randy will stay true to Corrine and Charlie. If Sugar is persuade to give the Idol to save Mattie, and the two of them join forces to get rid of Randy, Charlie or Corrine, that plan could work out great. The 3 vote to get rid of Mattie, Mattie plays the Idol and Mattie and Sugar vote the same and that's who will be booted. Now this would all play out well if it was taking place at a playground or almost any other place on earth, but.....this is Survivor. If Matty has turned to the dark side, and that's possible, then he might convince Sugar to give him the Idol, use it, but it's her that's the target.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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11-05-08, 10:50 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 preview""
http://resources.survivorphoenix.com/postnuke/html/index.php

Video is at top of the Phoenix page.

Randy gets something out of the sand, looks like something wrapped or in a bag.
He gets up and puts it on the table. It's brown, could well be an idol.

Also the last frame with Bob, is that not Sugar just visible behind him?
Could this be from the future? Past? Anyone recognize the setting?

So, Erik's blunder, something akin:

Erik gave the idol to evil Natalie who had convinced him was his ally and needed protection and was voted out.

Sugar could give the idol to whom? Matty? Feeling guilty about Ace?

or, if Randy does find an idol,
Randy could somehow feel so safe that he shelters Matty?
It would be crazy if two people played idols, wouldn't it?

Charlie may not be completely safe either.

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11-06-08, 08:52 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 preview""
So, so excited for the late breaking news. Clearly, Randy pulls another message that is scrolled up out of the sand, I think. If you pause the video, you can see it, then they zoom in on it. It is a message that is scrolled up.

Also, no doubt about it, the Good: Marcus(leader): Crystal, Ken, Susie, and Bob vs. the bad: Randy(leader), Matty, Corrine, Charlie

Sugar is shown as the good, but imo, she is indeed our victim. She is shown crying to Matty. Somehow, someway, she will be toast. I thought with the second promo that she was in danger....and I didn't want to discount her, however I was originally thinking that she must not use it when she needed to. Perhaps she does give Matty the hidden II, feeling guilty and knowing that he is the most exposed, then he tells everyone else and boom, she's toast. That would appear to make him look "evil", yet I feel that it would make him look smart....after all, Sugar blindsided her closest ally, there is no way I would ever trust her!



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tribephyl 12393 desperate attention whore postings
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11-06-08, 01:00 AM (EST)
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9. "For B1"
totally offtopic as I'm kinda at a loss for whats happening now but I wanted to make sure you got this...

Now there is no excuse to continue running around naked.
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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
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11-06-08, 11:06 AM (EST)
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11. "RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 preview""
LAST EDITED ON 11-06-08 AT 11:16 AM (EST)

Well I hesitate to get all breathless about anything Jeff Probst says because he said the good vs. evil theme would be apparent almost as soon as the show started. Well, it hasn't been. So now he's saying it's going to come into play now that we're halfway through. Okay, Jeff, whatever.

If that is actually true though, I wouldn't assign "evil" to all the members of one of the new tribes and "good" to all those on the other one. Remember, Jeff said we would like Matty (I do believe he was sincere about that) so I find it hard to believe he's now going to be edited as a "bad" person (Crystal notwithstanding).

a big theme begins to emerge and this is one that's going to carry out for the rest of the season and it's good versus bad. There are some people that decide, "you know what, we are good people and one of us should win, they're bad people and they shouldn't."

And he doesn't say this decision will happen tonight. They are probably going to merge next week so the actual division if there is one may not occur until they are all back together.

Plus the sentiment about "us" being "good" and "them" being "bad" may only refer to select groups, e.g. three people may be saying this about another three people, rather than that it places everyone in one camp or the other.


Surfkitten Summer Sigshop 2008

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emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings
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11-06-08, 11:15 AM (EST)
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13. "RE: NEW CLIP!!! JP's "episode 8 preview""
LAST EDITED ON 11-06-08 AT 11:26 AM (EST)

I was thinking yesterday that Sugar may give HI to Matty but then I didn't post it bc I thought Sugar would heed Kenny's words "always keep the idol with you" but after the new promo with Sugar crying to Matty and Jiffy's preview, I think that may happen now.

What's the twist then? Could Matty get it from Sugar not play it thinking he is safe bc of Randy and vote for Sugar? So Randy makes the move to get rid of the idol without anyone playing it and getting rid of the strong Matty? Everyone votes for Matty but him and he votes for Sugar.

I continue to remember Matty's words to Ace a couple eps ago when they made their pact to the merge...Matty was concerned about no merge at 10 but at 9. I think he may be Shii Ann

Also remember Matty is the only 3 time loser on Uthong, he has never had the food on Kotex (bob and marcus are only 3 time winners on Kotex)

Although, the good v evil theme that is supposed to merge tonite focuses on Randy Matty Corrine and Charlie as the bad and NuNuKotex Marcus Crystal Bob with sugar shown before Bob with Kenny and Susie really not in picture (but they are safe bc NuNuthong is going to TC


_____________________________________________

Another scenario.

What is that thing that Randy finds? In the video, there's only one guy with him presumably Matty (although it could be Marcus) then it goes immediately to the feast with everyone. So could this also be an HI? Could both HIs be played and there are no votes for anyone without a HI? Randy has his and plays it, Sugar gives Matty hers and he plays it, Sugar votes for Randy and everyone else votes for Matty. What would happen then? purple rock for sugar corrine and charlie or a revote with only those 3 on the line? Sugar would go then.


ETA: Or Sugar could give Matty her HI and Randy has his own which it appears Matty knows about. Randy tells Matty to steer
Sugar's vote toward Randy and convince her to give Matty her HI.

Then Everyone votes for Sugar and Sugar votes for Randy. Then Matty has the HI and doesn't play it. Matty gets Sugar back for Ace and has the HI to boot. If Randy's is a HI he has one too bc he wouldn't play it. Matty would then be EVIL (although I agree with FP, payback's a biyotch)

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Corvis 3130 desperate attention whore postings
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11-06-08, 03:15 PM (EST)
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19. "Who's really good and evil?"
Well, this is fun.

Here's my question. Why are some people lumping Matty in with the evil and Sugar in the with the good? Considering that Matty has a sympathetic edit from the beginning and Sugar just showed how "evil" she can be by voting out her one strongest ally, Ace, I would think the opposite would be true. Even if we see her feeling bad about it, we're going to feel like she got what she deserved for being evil last week.

So if this is the episode when good vs. evil rears its head, I would put the entire Fang tribe minus Matty on the evil side. For this theme to come out, a good person gets booted. Therefore, a Sugar boot does not seem in the cards and a Matty boot makes sense.

Alternate boot would be Charlie, as he is the other person I associate as possibly on the good side.



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11-06-08, 03:55 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: Who's really good and evil?"
Corvis,
as the first person in the topic who was playing around with assigning tags, all I was doing was noticing in this Probst promo, who is being shown when Probst is describing the new dynamic.

Just watch the clip and note it.

Good - defined as those who consider themselves deserving people
Marcus and Crystal talking

Bad mean ugly
Randy, Matty, Corinne/Charlie

Pretty & Nice
Sugar & Bob w/Sugar behind him.

The point of all this hype as a big deal, is, for me, that MARCUS who from Ep 1 has seemed to have picked his core people, is going to do a 180 and play the game differently.

Dan came to Marcus and pleaded for him not to hang out in his little clique all the time. Dan's final words about Marcus were to the effect that Marcus' personality is becoming mean-spirited because he's spending too much time with Corinne. This is the woman who laughs when Dan gets habanero fire in his eyes.

I have not seen Marcus be mean-spirited or cocky in a confessional. He said of Dan that he tried to help him but he had done all he could do, but not in a snarky way, whereas Corinne speculated Dan may have been a fatty as a child.

Now with Matty, his story may be over, but the scene with Crystal (linked in the Insider thread) shows her trying to tell him he has changed from a nice surfer guy playing for his girlfriend to an evil cutthroat person who is stabbing her and Kenny in the back.

We have seen Crystal be very negative this season, but there's no doubt she still regards herself as "good" and Matty as dishonorable for linking up with Ace and trying to bring in Kenny. (I don't like Susie much either, but there is no question she FEELS deserving because of her work ethic.)

I'm not at all sure that Matty sticks around, but could the editing pull a metamorphosis on him, yes, it has already started. But most of it being stuck into online clips, perhaps that is because he goes home and the storyline is a wash.

In any case, it looks like we'll be treated to a rift in the Onion alliance before it became necessary to eat itself from a game perspective, which should be more entertaining than seeing a straight pagonging of the non-onions.

The numbers will have to be close though, or there's no contest.
A pretty, nice, or deserving person almost has to go this week.


Let us not then suspect our happy state left so imperfect by the Maker wise, as not secure to single or combined.
Frail is our happiness if this be so, and Eden were no Eden thus exposed." ~ John Milton, Paradise Lost, IX

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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
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11-06-08, 03:59 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: Who's really good and evil?"
LAST EDITED ON 11-06-08 AT 04:35 PM (EST)

I don't think either Matty or Sugar would get lumped in with "evil", based on their edits. We were encouraged to think that Ace was taking advantage of Sugar, so her voting him out was a positive for her.

Besides, I think Jeff is probably exaggerating the extent of the theme.

I do think Jeff revealing that "something happens" with the idol may be a trick to suggest that Sugar is leaving tonight when that isn't the case.

Surfkitten Summer Sigshop 2008

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11-06-08, 05:31 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: Who's really good and evil?"
I have to admit, I just LOVE what the producers are doing this year with the teasers and the promos...

I say that it's either Sugar or Matty...I don't think Randy will be leaving yet.

Regarding the good vs. evil, clearly Randy and Corrine are going to be "evil". Randy could pull Matty in to their group, yet I agree, in no way, shape, or form do I see him as evil, nor would I for voting out Sugar...she deserves it.

I do see Marcus as good, and I think that Charlie would be with Marcus. I definately do not see Kenny and Crystal as good either, Kenny is a snake and Crystal is pathetic. I think Kenny is a player, but not necessarily good. I think Bob is good, but not a player. I think Susie was not even scanned as she is a non-entity practically.


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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
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11-06-08, 05:56 PM (EST)
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23. "RE: Who's really good and evil?"
I say that it's either Sugar or Matty...I don't think Randy will be leaving yet...Randy could pull Matty in to their group, yet I agree, in no way, shape, or form do I see him as evil, nor would I for voting out Sugar...she deserves it.

Let's see...

JEFF PROBST SAYS: ''I think Matty will be one of the favorites this season, someone people will absolutely love. I find him to be one of the most endearing guys we've ever had on the show to the point where it could work against him because he can't hide anything. If he's confused, he says, 'I'm confused.' If he's happy, he's smiling. If he's sad, he's crying.''

This is *not* going to be an "evil" person by any stretch, unless Probst has lost his mind, imo.

Which is not to say Matty won't leave tonight. But with that buildup it seems like he should play a bigger part in the "theme" Probst keeps touting. On the other hand:

JEFF PROBST SAYS: ''She (Sugar) makes every decision from her heart and not her head. She's very emotional, somewhat naïve, and I think when you first look at her, the question is going to be 'Can she hack it out here? Does she have what it takes?' It doesn't take much for Sugar to break into tears.''

Sugar's been handling the idol in a bit of a naive fashion so that may just do her in.

Surfkitten Summer Sigshop 2008

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11-06-08, 06:22 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: Who's really good and evil?"
BR- well, that is a good point about Matty, although to date I haven't felt the same kind of love Jeff is feeling AT ALL. And I do like Marcus, who Jeff doesn't (I think Jeff is jealous that the production girls had crushes on him).

Also a good point about Sugar's emotional playing.

FP - I think it would be easy to get confused about good and evil, to talk about the edits, to talk about the actions, but for right now I'm sticking with what Jeff said, which is

Good is in the eye of the person who decides "I am deserving" for whatever reason. That may be self-deception (anyone who watches Big Brother has seen the biggest evil players delusionally talk about themselves as deserving and good). So those who may be on the Good Alliance only have to share a belief that deserving people need to go far.

Basically that describes a strategy where you do not play to surround yourself with A-holes just because you can win against them. That's how I see "good" from JP.

Bad (he did not say evil) are those who are perfectly happy to either be considered jerks or maybe to play cutthroat, or to say snide things about other people. Charlie may be more like that than what we've seen so far.

I suspect that Corinne has found in Randy a player more like herself than Marcus and along with the forced split comes an opportunity to re-evaluate alliances. All they ever cared about was having a tough alliance with the numbers to win. Corinne was not in a F2 agreement with Marcus AFAWK. So why not Randy?

You guys do make a good case against Matty joining the bad group, but if so then he has to be gone, soon, if not tonight.


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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
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11-06-08, 07:07 PM (EST)
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27. "RE: Who's really good and evil?"
LAST EDITED ON 11-06-08 AT 07:13 PM (EST)

OFG, yours is a good point that "good" is going to be a self-description so it may not be completely clear who fits there right now. Likewise the "undeserving" tag will be foisted on those players by the "deserving" group so we may not be seeing them that way yet either.

Although since Jeff asks hypothetically which one will you be rooting for, they may now try to edit the particular contestants according to those parameters, to a certain extent anyway.

I also think this will develop after they merge so you can't assign either new tribe as a whole to either category.

Surfkitten Summer Sigshop 2008

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11-10-08, 10:36 AM (EST)
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30. "RE: Who's really good and evil?"
LAST EDITED ON 11-10-08 AT 11:37 AM (EST)

I really hate to bring this up again because 1)the whole thing makes my head hurt and 2) although JP has indicated that it is a “big theme … that’s going to carry out for the rest of the season” , I’m not sure that it has any immediate relevance to this week’s (Episode Nine’s) events. But …

I agree that it appears that this “battle” evolved naturally from the castaways’ inclusion in groups via criteria established by “some people that decide, ‘you know what, we are good people and one of us should win, they’re bad people and they shouldn’t’”. And, from its inception, the core of the Onion Alliance (originally, Marcus, Charlie, Corrine and Jacquie and now Charlie and Corrine) made it abundantly clear that those “some people” would be … them.

So, to determine the rosters of the groups (and the physical location of their individual members) at any given Gabon moment, perhaps we should peel away the distractions and look at The Onions’ three-pronged value system as Marcus described it in an exit interview and as the show’s producers may have seen it “play out”:

Marcus ~ You know, let me just point out -- and I love Dan because I argued for him for the longest time to hope that he could come to an understanding – but to be young, good looking and athletic in our group of people and to still get voted off before Susie takes an amazing amount of effort.

And, using the labels that most amuse me and (for the fun of it) assigning one point to each attribute, here’s how I see the – should we call them ‘tribes’? – at the beginning of Episode Nine:

The Pretty People

Matty – 3.0
Charlie – 3.0
Corrine – 2.5
Sugar – 2.0
At Fang
The Pretty-Ugly Person

Randy – 1.5
At Fang

The Ugly People

Kenny – 1.0
Bob – .5
Crystal – .5
Susie – 0
At Kota

So, I guess you could count me among those who think that there is a merge before the IC. Because I don’t think that MB and Company would take the chance that The Pretty People might dispatch the Pretty-Ugly Person before the Ugly People are afforded an equal opportunity to do so. And before the Season’s iconic Man-In-The-Middle has the opportunity to keep the score as even as he can. As long as he can.


Older than Gillian. Shorter than Susie. As athletic as Crystal.

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11-10-08, 12:53 PM (EST)
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31. "RE: Who's really good and evil?"
Interesting post, G. I am curious to know how you scored the Survivors on each attribute. The Pretty People are easy to understand the scoring. Presumably Randy got 1 point for Athletic and 0.5 for young? I suspect that Crystal would be devastated to see her score, but she has to get a 0 for athletic (despite the Olympic medal) and her character certainly isn't good looking.

And for the record, that is the best siggie and bi-line that I have ever seen. Too funny.


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Georjanna 1316 desperate attention whore postings
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11-11-08, 10:54 AM (EST)
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32. "RE: Who's really good and evil?"
Hi!

Actually, I almost gave Randy a 0.5 for “good-looking” too. There is a certain lived-in, Spencer Tracy look about him that I find attractive. But, because it’s very likely that the Onions don’t even know who Spencer Tracy was – and the point of the exercise is to see others as they did – you’re right: I gave Randy a 1.0 for “athletic” and a 0.5 for being intimidating enough that they didn’t dare think of him as the opposite of “young”.

I gave the recipient of Dr. Lehman’s heaping dose of toxic compassion, Kenny, an obligatory 1.0 for “young”. And, because I thought that even the baptised Onions might have been impressed by his performance in last week’s IC, Bob got a 0.5 for “athletic”.

Crystal received a 0.5 because, despite her perpetual – physical and psychological – crouch, she is still “young”. Honestly! It is as though some malevolent starter set Crystal in her blocks and then sauntered away with the gun.

Susie’s 0.0 was accompanied by my profound … empathy.

Would you have ‘scored’ any of them differently?

And Gillian, Susie, Crystal and I ... thank you.


Older than Gillian. Shorter than Susie. As athletic as Crystal.


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b1whois 126 desperate attention whore postings
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11-06-08, 08:02 PM (EST)
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29. "RE: Who's really good and evil?"
i agree with OFG's take of how good and bad are defined. i will call what jeff admires (selfless play) "honorable".
as i have said elsewhere, i see the good as marcus, sugar, matty and bob. i see the bad as charlie, corrine, and randy. ken and suzie are the available recruits for the two teams to compete for. crystal is also bad, (as in bad to be around, undeserving, not honorable) but she never gets a chance to pick a side since she goes home tonite
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11-06-08, 06:43 PM (EST)
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26. "RE: Who's really good and evil?"
Thanks for bringing that up, Brownroach. To me it solidifies that Matty is not going to be on the evil team. I don't know that he will play a bigger part than the first victim of the evils. That's a pretty good part to play.


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11-06-08, 07:24 PM (EST)
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28. "RE: Who's really good and evil?"
Matty was my first boot choice, and I believe he's a solid candidate. 100% the most logical.

My only problem with the Matty boot:

1) it is a simple vote. 3-2 is a no brainer if Randy doesn't join forces with him. No idol play is required. OK, it is possible that Sugar will give it to him and he'll stupidly not play it because he thinks Sugar is the target.

If so, BOO on Probst because that's a Jay-san move from F vs F -- not an Erik move.

2) If Sugar doesn't go home this time, she's likely to stick around for awhile as a non IC threat, but it seems to me her story is about over. Whereas Matty could still be a target next time.


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