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zzz 703 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-18-05, 09:38 AM (EST) "What does it mean that Judd was not told?" What do people think is the significance of the fact that Judd was the only one not told that they were voting Jamie out. Is it: 1) Judd could not be trusted to keep the information from Jamie. 2) Judd would have argued about it and they wanted to avoid an argument. 3) Judd is now on the outside of the core group and cannot make it past final 5. 4) Other. 5) Combination of the above.   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: What does it mean that Judd was... jkokoj 11-18-05 1    RE: What does it mean that Judd was... JazzyJax 11-18-05 3  5) Combination of the above Q 11-18-05 2    RE: 5) Combination of the above emydi 11-18-05 5        RE: 5) Combination of the above jkokoj 11-18-05 6  RE: What does it mean that Judd was... esquire 11-18-05 4    RE: What does it mean that Judd was... PhillyBrat 11-18-05 7  RE: What does it mean that Judd was... Fishercat 11-18-05 8  RE: What does it mean that Judd was... goldie1000 11-18-05 9    RE: What does it mean that Judd was... michel 11-18-05 10        RE: What does it mean that Judd was... Outfrontgirl 11-20-05 12  RE: What does it mean that Judd was... dabo 11-20-05 11  RE: What does it mean that Judd was... Outfrontgirl 11-20-05 13    RE: What does it mean that Judd was... emydi 11-20-05 14  RE: What does it mean that Judd was... dabo 11-29-05 15    RE: What does it mean that Judd was... leianawd 11-29-05 16        RE: What does it mean that Judd was... dabo 11-29-05 17

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jkokoj 4389 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 11-18-05, 09:49 AM (EST) 1. "RE: What does it mean that Judd was not told?" It appeared to me that Judd outlasted his usefullness. What also occured to me is that we were not shown him and Steph discussing what took place while they were on reward with Danni and Gary. Steph, Danni and Gary seem to be like minded regarding only having the strong make it to final four. But notice Steph went to Rafe and Lydia. Steph knows where he loyalty lies and I don't think she needs Judd anymore. IMO I think Steph is riding the fence very well at this point. She got rid of one threat pretty easily and knows that Judd will hang himself with the others without much prompting from her.   Top

JazzyJax 531 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-18-05, 10:19 AM (EST) 3. "RE: What does it mean that Judd was not told?" Perfectly put jk! If Stephanie was smart, she'd use a line like this: "Judd, we know how much you saw Jamie like a younger brother. He was driving everyone nuts. We had the numbers and didn't want to put you in the situation where you had to cast a vote for him." Judd wouldn't totally believe it of course, but it would keep Steph in a better light with him come jury time, if she makes it to F2. Some think she's screwed herself but I think she's playing a good game. Get the top strength dogs outta there while using Gary and Danni desperation, and keep her two lap dogs near when it is time to boot Gary. Brilliant! I was so surprised not to see Gary go. Good for him pulling another qb sneak yet again!   Top

Q 2569 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson" 11-18-05, 09:55 AM (EST) 2. "5) Combination of the above" I'm going with 5, combo. I think they did not want him arguing about it, telling Jamie, and he is moving to the outside of the core alliance group, and they plain just did not need his vote. I also think next weeks blurb about, I know were your loyalties lie, is about Steph and Judd. She is saying, you are moving away from us, due to the Jamie swithcheroo, and I am ahead of you in that plan, so you are next. I also agree that steph is playing well. Gary/Danni wanted Jamie gone, but she did not raise the topic untill Rafe/Lydia brought it up as their own idea. She then went immediately along with it. So she got what she wanted, and lets Rafe/Lydia take the blame for starting it. It is astonishing how foolish humans can be in groups, especially when they follow their leaders without question - States: The Bene Gesserit View. All States Are an Abstraction.   Top

emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-18-05, 11:29 AM (EST) 5. "RE: 5) Combination of the above" She might have thought it was smart not to tell Judd and blame it on Rafe and Lydia...but she will not be sitting next to either Rafe or Lydia at F2 (no way) SO Steph LOST THE GAME last nite...mark my words...the vote will be 4-3 with Danni winning getting the 4 strong guy votes bc of last nite...Judd was her best buddy and he will remember and will use his jury vote to say FU steph...plus see ToT's tidbit about not banking on Judd voting for Steph to win..plus he will talk to Jamie at LL and Jamie won't have Lydia to vote against either...so..Steph doesn't get his vote either.. and BJ well we know who he's voting for. Gary actually will be the swing vote, and I think the editing may be showing this now on how powerful he will be in this game, albeit not winning it like Tom did, but he will vote for his sister in arms at Yaxha...Danni... For more info. see my editing thread entry that I will post this weekend in VS' thread about why I def now think it's Danni as I have since week 2 i think...I waivered a bit the last 2 weeks but it's her with Steph at end.   Top

jkokoj 4389 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 11-18-05, 11:38 AM (EST) 6. "RE: 5) Combination of the above" Good points Emy. Steph is playing well at the moment to get herself to the final 2 and take her chances. I have not been keeping up with spoilers all too much but just wanted to start what appeared to me last night while watching. At this point I would think Steph would either want Lydia, Rafe or Cindy next to her at final 2. She would be hard pressed to win against Danni or Gary at this point in time.   Top

esquire 1095 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest" 11-18-05, 10:24 AM (EST) 4. "RE: What does it mean that Judd was not told?" I also wonder if this is a result of Jamie telling Rafe that he could have a final 3 of Jamie, Judd and Rafe. Rafe said he wanted to think about it and he obviously did and decided against it. If Rafe would rather get rid of immunity threats, he could tell Steph, Cindy and Lydia about that offer convince them that Jamie and Judd can't be trusted. This reduces the core alliance from 6 to 4   Top

PhillyBrat 172 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 11-18-05, 12:37 PM (EST) 7. "RE: What does it mean that Judd was not told?" Honestly when Jamie told Rafe, agree on a final 3 with him, Judd and Jamie. What went through my head was "why final 3 and not a final 2". It was obvious that Jamie wanted to go to the end with Judd (remember when he said he wanted to bring the "bad guy" to the end with you). I think Rafe knew Jamie would take Judd over Rafe in the end thus not making that deal. I also think Jamie was just shooting himself in the foot time and time again, and enough people noticed and removed him because of it. Bratz   Top

Fishercat 4168 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 11-18-05, 03:38 PM (EST) 8. "RE: What does it mean that Judd was not told?" 5) 3 and 4 specifically. This was extremely telling in terms of the core. I'm not convinced that Cindy is really part of the core either (which seems to be Lydia/Rafe/Stephanie from the order they went in the Jamie boot), but this isn't about that. However, not telling Judd of the boot simply shows where he is, if they cannot be bothered to whisper to Judd that Jamie is going home tonight, well...doesn't look good. As for the "other", it's Steph's stupidity. There's no harm in not telling Judd, and all it shows is that Steph basically said 'That's okay, I don't need Judd's in-game vote, jury-vote, or allianceship any more'. As for 1 and 2. There's no harm in him arguing or telling Jamie. Jamie will be able to convince no one at that point that he should stay and Gary should go, their minds were made up. And as for Judd arguing, at this point, it's still a 6-1 vote, and no matter what Judd does, he doesn't change it...for this vote. Still, it'll be interesting to see if Judd can get the brainpower enough to be able to flip to Gary/Danni/??? (Cindy would be my guess).   Top

goldie1000 1087 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest" 11-18-05, 04:17 PM (EST) 9. "RE: What does it mean that Judd was not told?" >Is it: > >1) Judd could not be >trusted to keep the information >from Jamie. > >2) Judd would have argued >about it and they wanted >to avoid an argument. >3) Judd is now on >the outside of the core >group and cannot make it >past final 5. > YES, to all of the above And it also means that you should trust no-one ! The $hit is about to hit the fan !   Top

michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-18-05, 06:17 PM (EST) 10. "RE: What does it mean that Judd was not told?" Here's another possibility. Returning from reward, the first thing Judd did was go to Jaime and they talked alone for a while. What if Rafe told Stephenie of Jaime's proposal of F3 with Judd+Jaime+Rafe? Stephenie has to wonder if Judd was in on it. If she has doubts about him, why give him any information?   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-20-05, 05:41 AM (EST) 12. "RE: What does it mean that Judd was not told?" >>What if Rafe told Stephenie of Jaime's proposal of F3 with Judd+Jaime+Rafe? I agree, michel. He probably did. It's the kind of proposal you want to wash your hands of real quick and tell your ally about it before someone else does. Maintain trust. Jamie dropped Judd's name as someone who wanted to help him gang up on Steph once they were down to six. That probably shook Steph's confidence in Judd enough to not talk to him about why Jamie should go. Steph is always nervous. Now Judd will react strongly after TC and will deny any such disloyal plans. Steph might even feel bad. Then he whacks her mask in the RC, and she will use that to make the statement that his act shows her where his loyalties lie. One thing about Steph though, is she hasn't been one to react by immediately chopping off heads. She has a methodical plan that can get her to the end. She fears Gary much more than Judd. As long as Judd is a bit of a toothless serpent, due to numbers, she may not want to deviate from booting Gary as Judd is less likely to go on an immunity run, by far. Hard to say from the previews how heavy things will get. It's also possible that the only thing saving Judd this time is immunity. Lucky Danni, F7 and still two targets shielding her!   Top

dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-20-05, 03:05 AM (EST) 11. "RE: What does it mean that Judd was not told?" Judd was along for the reward overnight and heard Gary's plan about "the most deserving" players getting to final four. He didn't buy into it, though he didn't mention it to Jamie when asked. It became obvious that Judd was set on following the plan to oust Gary and Danni. What was his plan after that? That just takes them to F6, what does Judd do then? Judd, the guy who betrayed his own tribe earlier in the game. Steph was afraid of a strong sub-alliance within the dominant-alliance, Gary picked up on that and made his move when the time was ripe. Judd outlasted his own importance long ago, now he's in the position of having to try to put someone else on the chopping block.   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-20-05, 06:00 AM (EST) 13. "RE: What does it mean that Judd was not told?" Quote from Jamie's Tampa radio interview (thank you SFever): I had a backup plan. If I had known they were voting me off I would have went to Gary and Danni and I would have had me and Judd, I knew me and Judd were tight. I would have made Lydia come my way. It wasn't safe to tell Judd or Jamie. The plan was to lull him along with believing the Sweet Six plan was still a go, so he wouldn't go to the minority tribe and pull in Lydia. I mean, we could all see that, but his quote shows he really was ready to start negotiating if they hadn't blindsided him, and we might have seen Steph's torch go out last time. I'm now thinking that Judd and Jamie 'listened up good' when BobbyJon gave those boys a talkin to about letting Steph run away with the thing. Stupid Jamie, maybe if he hadn't started ATTACKING Gary for lying those guys could have formed a rebel alliance. Of course that would have been a potentially horrible F3 that would have included Judd and Jamie, but I would have enjoyed seeing Steph hit the road and I would have been fine with Gary (or Danni) winning that way.   Top

emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-20-05, 10:03 AM (EST) 14. "RE: What does it mean that Judd was not told?" and if lydia had any game she would have taken it to Jamie and been the swing vote at F5 with JJGD and then side with JJ but then she would have had to win the F3, HA! ok she thinks she can win it against Steph and Rafe??...NO GAME!! I agree with your other post OFGin Ep 12 thread..she's negative bc of NO GAME and she is safe for a while...I still think she may go before Cindy at F5..but does that really matter? Not really Cindy and Lydia will be f4 and f5 in either order   Top

dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-29-05, 03:04 AM (EST) 15. "RE: What does it mean that Judd was not told?" bump. Judd, even though he still doesn't realize it, isn't part of the core alliance that is actually in control of things.   Top

leianawd 471 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 11-29-05, 03:39 PM (EST) 16. "RE: What does it mean that Judd was not told?" I agree, Judd served his purpose when the whole tribal swap took place and the beginning of the merge. I don't really know what Judd's thing with Jamie was exactly but I think it went more on the lines of how it could benefit him. Remember the week Jamie won immunity? Had Jamie not won that week there was a strong probability that he was going to get voted off and Judd seemed to have no problem with that. I think the way Judd was probably thinking was that if he could keep Jamie around then great because it would better his chances in the F2 with that guy but if push came to shove and he couldn't rescue him I don't think Judd was going to put his neck out. Steph's excuse that she didn't tell Judd because she didn't want to burden him with the choice of going along with the alliance against a friend was just that: a safe excuse to make Judd feel better about not being informed about his alliance's decision. However, with this said I don't know exactly what Steph is thinking but I think it would be in her best interest to take Judd to the F2 with her as he has ticked too many people off to probably get votes or at least it would be a fair chance. Taking someone like Rafe would be a big mistake as he is pretty well respected by the other players and seems to be the guy to go to when it comes to decision and deal making.   Top

dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-29-05, 05:16 PM (EST) 17. "RE: What does it mean that Judd was not told?" Steph, inexplicably, does seem able to convince the other players to believe whatever bogus claptrap she invents on the spot. I wish I had a super power like that, could come in real handy at F2. (OTOH, let's recall BJ and Jamie cracking up in the jury box at TC, being on the jury may provide some immunity from bogus claptrap.) "If all machines were to be annihilated at one moment, so that not a knife nor lever nor rag of clothing nor anything whatsoever were left to man but his bare body alone that he was born with, and if all knowledge of mechanical laws were taken from him so that he could make no more machines, and all machine-made food destroyed so that the race of man should be left as it were naked upon a desert island, we should become extinct in six weeks." (Samuel Butler, "Erewhon")   Top

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