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"Why it won't be Kimmi"
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Conspiracy Jim 198 desperate attention whore postings
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02-05-01, 04:41 PM (EST)
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"Why it won't be Kimmi"
I am going out on a line here and putting my head on the chopping block but I really want SurvivorBlows.com to come out better than those other sites this time. Lets be honest here, Debb and Kel were gimmies. Sure we should be proud that we got them but so has everyone. Mark Burnett essentially provided 2 pics to give us these 2 in an attempt to lure us in. From here on out we need to be very careful and very logical. Discount everything and nothing. First of all I feel that too many people are putting way too much faith into the "first four" theory. For those who don't know by now the "first 4" theory is based on the fact that SurvivorSucks.com released via an informer, the names of 14 of the 16 castaways before CBS released the info. The names that were not provided were Debb, Kel, Nick and Kimmi. Many are believing this whole heartedly and thus are basing their logical predications on this, and yes if I were to truly believe the "first 4" theory I too would think that Kimmi is next to go, or possibly Nick but...

This is not logical. It is more likely that Mark Burnett gave the 14 names in combination with the "Cow Eating" pics and the "Water Torture" challenge pics to lure us in and screw us up right at this point. Lets look at the evidence that we have...

The CBS web site has the following as Episode 3's promo...

-Colby and Jerri are drawn to each other,but can they trust one another?
-Michael annoys his tribe with his relentless pursuit of food. Is he doing it for them, or for himself?
-Whom does Elisabeth promise to protect?
-Beaten by hunger and the relentless Outback heat, the tribes must compete in the most rigorous challenge yet. Who will survive this heartbreaking event?

There is no doubt that Colby and Jerri will/are have/ing a fling. If you noticed during the past two shows whenever they showed Okagor hanging out under their tent Colby and Jerri were kinda separated to the left while the others were spreadout. This tells me that neither of them will vote the other out (if you had a chance of getting some with either Jerri (for us guys) or Colby (for you gals) would you vote them off? - NO WAY!!!) It seems pretty obvious to me that there is already an alliance formed and Jerri is the leader. If I had to bet I would say that Marilyn and Tina are part of it. The way that they all played Kel indicates this. Since it is obvious that Jerri is "the leader" then you must respect that she has at least 3-4 other members under her influence. That would mean in regards to Okagor that Kieth is in trouble and will likely be the next Okagor to get the boot but…

Since the CBS video promo shows Okagor leading in the immunity race then we must go under the assumption that Kucha goes to council this week.

So...

Next the CBS site tells us that Michael annoys his tribe with his relentless pursuit of food. If they are telling us this then, even if it is true, it will not lead to him getting kicked off. Michael is the leader of Kucha, at least for the moment. It really comes down to who is vulnerable in Kucha…

Alicia - No issues thus in no threat.
Liz - No issues thus in no threat.
Nick - No issues except the "first four" theory which we should not use as a basis for our pick.

Now the following tribe members do have reason/issues to be booted…

Michael - A bit over zealous in his wanting to be leader and/or getting food but …
1. CBS points this out so it can't be the reason for him to get booted.
2. He is the only one catching fish right now and even though his tribemates may believe he is doing it with the sole purpose of making himself indispensable, he again is the only one doing it.
3. He is one of the stronger members and at this early stage the tribe is likely to keep their stronger members (Joel Syndrome).

So likely Mike sticks around...

Roger - Is the oldest member and his lack of swimming did lead to his tribe losing the last immunity challenge. His days are numbered but he did prove something to his teammates in that he at least tried. He is also the one pointing out how Mike is the leader and is catching food so Mike would want to keep him around.

Kimmi - Is annoying as hell but…
1. She did win the last immunity challenge for her team. Some of you might point out that Stacy did the same last season but Kimmi is not Stacy.
2. Also most of you probably saw how Kimmi was being supported after she could not eat the beef. I believe that Liz was specifically the one hugging her in support. This leads me to…

Jeff - Is a complete jerk.
1. Has a poor personality that has been shown during the "Mad Cow Buffet" challenge when he was mocking Tina. This won't play well.
2. His illness, though it didn't seem like a major factor in the last episode, is still a reason (or at least an excuse) to give him the boot.
3. He doesn't seem to mesh well with anyone in particular. Kimmi and he are definitely not friends and in fact you can guess that Jeff will vote for her. Alicia seems pleasant with Jeff but not especially friendly. Michael - same. Roger - same.

I think we might need to try to reason whom will vote for whom.

Jeff - Kimmi

Michael - Jeff. My reasoning here is that Jeff is a complainer and will bring up how Michael is fishing solely to make himself indespesable. Though he does seem to think of Roger as a hindrance, Roger is the one pointing out that Michael is the leader and is catching the fish and Michael probably realizes that he must keep Roger around, at least for now.

Alicia - This one is up in the air. As a physical fitness instructor she may see Roger as a weak link but at the same time Jeff's illness may be enough reason for her to vote for him. I think Alicia would likely vote the same way as Michael but that is assumption and we should not base our predication on that. Lets not count her vote as it is not a high percentage assumption.

Kimmi - Jeff. There is almost no doubt that she will vote for him. I don't think that it's a secret that he doesn't like her and she will likely know that he will be voting for her.

Nick - No way to know for sure. Same category as Alicia.

Liz - It seemed during last show that Liz and Kimmi (and possibly Alicia) are friendly. Not "Alliance Friendly" but enough so that they would not vote for each other. If Jeff is planning on voting for Kimmi then it is likely that Liz will "protect" her by voting off Jeff but again we have no real proof for this. Lets lump her in with Alicia and Nick.

Roger - Will likely vote as Michael does. Michael is smart and probably knows by now that Roger is backing him. This plus the fish catching will likely get him through until the merger, if not the final 4. He will want to keep those that are supporting him around. It was shown that Jeff does not appreciate Michael's leadership nor his constant attempts at catching fish. Again Roger is not an assured vote but I don't see him going for Kimmi nor any of the other ladies. Nick doesn't make sense and he will definitely not vote for Michael so…

Michael, Kimmi and Roger (probably Liz) and (Possibly Alicia and Nick)will vote for...

JEFF

Jeff WILL vote for Kimmi. He will try to get Alicia and possibly Roger and/or Nick in on this. He may even approach Liz, who will then defend Kimmi.

So, even if Jeff gets 2 others onto his side, Kimmi only gets three votes. At a minimum I see Jeff getting 3 and likely 4 to 6.

IF I HAD TO BET ON IT RIGHT NOW, I WOULD GO WITH JEFF GETTING THE BOOT WITH ONCE AGAIN A UNANIMOUS VOTE.

Conspiracy Jim

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: Why it won't be Kimmi survivorfreak 02-05-01 1
   RE: Why it won't be Kimmi Survivorerist 02-05-01 3
   RE: Why it won't be Kimmi Conspiracy Jim 02-05-01 4
 RE: Why it won't be Kimmi MDSkinner 02-05-01 2
   RE: Why it won't be Kimmi big idiot 02-05-01 5
       RE: Why it won't be Kimmi big idiot 02-05-01 6
           RE: Why it won't be Kimmi cowboyroo 02-05-01 7
 The only problem... Katatonic 02-05-01 8
 RE: Why it won't be Kimmi shakes the clown 02-05-01 9
   RE: Why it won't be Kimmi cowboyroo 02-05-01 10
       It won't be Kimmi because it will b... xrunner 02-05-01 11
 RE: Why it won't be Kimmi Siebured 02-06-01 12
 Why I disagree with Jeff pick weltek 02-06-01 13

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survivorfreak 2 desperate attention whore postings
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02-05-01, 05:22 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Why it won't be Kimmi"
It HAS to be Kimmi though, although what you said certainly makes sense. However, she and Rodger are the weakest members of Kucha at this point - and since they seem to be having trouble winning together, one of these two really would be voted if they are wanting to WIN some challenges. Saying that, Deb has stated that she and Kimmi got to know each other well - if Deb was floating about China at the END of her "vacation" after being voted off, then I have to believe that she and Kimmi get to know each other SOON. Rodger is likely the one to be protected by Liz, not Kimmi. Kimmi is too obvious I think. Plus, Rodger is more likable and for sure less annoying. I doubt that Nick, Alicia, Mike and Jeff get the boot yet - they're too strong and too valuable now for the team. Incidently, something about Jeff freaks me out and screams "another Rich, another Rich!", making me feel he goes a while. Definately post-merger.
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Survivorerist 4103 desperate attention whore postings
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02-05-01, 05:54 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: Why it won't be Kimmi"
>However, <Kimmi>
>and Rodger are the weakest
>members of Kucha at this
>point

I'm not sure here. I'll agree with Rodger but I'd also make a case possibly for Elisabeth (ya think the head dress is a sign of insecurity or just pure fun?) to be the weakest member of Kucha at this point. In challenge one, she did fall off the bridge, leading to a whole bunch of other disasters for Kucha's loss. In immunity challenge two, I do believe she spun the apple (and I'm not sure who spun the chocolate, might have been Rodger). Either way, nobody's sure how well she could have done here. I think, if the team starts voting off whoever they think is the weakest, Liz and Rodger will be the first targets (Rodger first because he is that much weaker). However, that isn't the case yet as the teams seem to be voting merger-style at this point and also see below.

>Rodger is likely
>the one to be protected
>by Liz, not Kimmi.

Well I agree halfway with you here. I think Liz will be protecting BOTH Rodger and Kimmi in E3, although they would be "protecting" her just as much. Forming the first real alliance seems like a definite plan in E3. Their first target is likely to be Vermin Jeff. This will leave Kucha much weaker than Ogakor, which could lend proof to the "Kucha 3 in a row" I keep hearing about.

Therefore, I think the next Kucha off will either be Vermin or Lizzie F (or possibly Kimmi but less likely), depending on how the alliance pans out and the team's strategy in the upcoming episodes.

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Conspiracy Jim 198 desperate attention whore postings
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02-05-01, 05:55 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Why it won't be Kimmi"
Debb stated that she became friendly with Kimmi on the plane ride home. That indicates that they didn't really become all that friendly at the "Loser Resort". This may mean that Kimmi sticks around a bit longer but I do agree that her days are numbered, probably to 12 (meaning she's gone next Episode). Many of you, not necessarily you, but many are basing their predication on the "First 4" theory. Try disregarding that theory and then logocal predict again, you will see that Jeff makes the most sense.


Now looking at the above picture which is from the day 7 "Water Torture" challenge, doesn't it look as though Jeff isn't feeling that well. It is possible that he is the one that gets sick (assumed abedicidis (sp -5)). He has been sick and even though they didn't point it out during EP2 it doesn't mean his illness went away.

Conspiracy Jim

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MDSkinner 716 desperate attention whore postings
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02-05-01, 05:26 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Why it won't be Kimmi"
The only part of your logic that I am not so sure about is the fact that you have Michael and Rodger voting for Jeff. Jeff is definitely a complainer but I am not sure that he bothers Michael any more than does Kimmi. I do not believe that Jeff will do anything to make Michael his enemy at this point, and I doubt that he will bring up that Michael is fishing to make himself indispensable. For that reason I think that the Michael and Rodger vote could go any number or ways, though at this point I firmly believe that they will vote for the same person, whoever that might be.

I do believe that M & R will vote for either Kimmi or for Jeff, however, simply because it seems obvious that they are going to vote against one another and by voting for one of the two they have guaranteed that they will be immune this time around no matter what the rest of the tribe decides(which as you said seems up in the air going into the show).

So that being said, I have no clue which of the two will be voted off, but I, like you, also feel comfortable that it will be one of the two of them.

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big idiot 193 desperate attention whore postings
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02-05-01, 08:00 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Why it won't be Kimmi"
This is my first post here and is catalyzed by two factors:

1) Support for CJ's "Jeff's next theory"
2) Support based on a piece of evidence that I have not seen mentioned (at least not recently, as I am a recent lurker)

The ancillary evidence is the "Boot Order" list floating on a couple of sites. It got #1 and #2 correct and I agree that the spoon-feeding of these first two bootees makes this evidence quite gossamer.

Jeff is listed as #3 on this Boot Order list.

But why add this evidence to CJ's list?:

1) Kimmee is listed as #6, this would give her enough time to bare all on her birthday as has been stated. Although it has been pointed out that it is not known if this comment was made prospectively as an intent or retrospectively as a deed done.

2) It states that the winner (listing two people that are strong contenders at this point) will be announced live. I found this list on Feb 1, the confirmation of the lockbox was done on Jan 30. Easily enough time to put it all together, but I don't know when the list first appeared (if anyone saw it earlier, please state). Just the fact it has that as the final announcement gives it an air of credulity to me. If I were to make up a list and throw it out there, I would go for the gusto and list the entire order and the winner. Why refrain? (I know, to suck me in...)

I would agree with you professional skeptics that the list stinks like a dead worm on a hook. If it is wrong, it will debunk itself by getting one prediction wrong.

Here is my fear: it is correct. If it is correct then all this bootee-predicting revelry will be lost for me. This is why I have not reproduced the list nor told the source. I trust others of you have found it and will find it. In that one-in-a-fat-chance that it is correct, I wouldn't feel good about removing the fun for those that want to continue the weekly predictions by culling clues.

But, I doubt it is correct. So you're better off supporting the Jeff next theory based on the deductions given by CJ, minus this probable red herring.

PS - I enjoy the mature and analytical nature of your message boards, keep up the great work.

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big idiot 193 desperate attention whore postings
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02-05-01, 08:30 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: Why it won't be Kimmi"
Apologies for the auto-reply.

I went to the original source of the Boot List (I hadn't done that before) and it self-proclaimed that it was posted on Jan 27 (3 days prior to confirmation of Lockbox).

A couple more picograms of support for it's legitimacy, but you will still find me riding on the Bus of Skepticism.

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cowboyroo 590 desperate attention whore postings
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02-05-01, 09:18 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Why it won't be Kimmi"
I go with Jeff too. Someone posted the torch of the person to get booted at this Tribal Council and as I watched the first episode, it looked a lot like Jeff's. CAn't seem to find that pic anywhere to reconfirm.

And in terms of Ogakor, I'm going with Jerri to be next. I think she may try to set someone up again and it won't work the second time around.

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Katatonic 7 desperate attention whore postings
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02-05-01, 09:35 PM (EST)
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8. "The only problem..."
is that your theory is completely based on the assumption that Ogakor wins the next immunity challenge. While that may seem likely (given that they are the strongest tribe and Rodger is seen falling) there is a 'speculation pic' on survivorfeverland which indicates that Michael may or may not be carrying the immunity idol as the group emerges from the water.

I have a feeling that Burnett would not, at this stage, deliberately give out the winner of the next immunity challenge, as is implied by Rodger's fall (that okagor wins).

anyway. that's my take.

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shakes the clown 3366 desperate attention whore postings
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02-05-01, 09:48 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Why it won't be Kimmi"
If you noticed
>during the past two shows
>whenever they showed Okagor hanging
>out under their tent Colby
>and Jerri were kinda separated
>to the left while the
>others were spreadout.


...no they weren't. When they were under the tent Colby was laying b/w Jerri AND Amber, with Mitchell sitting to the right of Jerri.


This
>tells me that neither of
>them will vote the other
>out


...I don't understand the correllation b/w sitting next to each other and not voting eanch other off.


It
>seems pretty obvious to me
>that there is already an
>alliance formed and Jerri is
>the leader. If I
>had to bet I would
>say that Marilyn and Tina
>are part of it.

....I think the ONLY obvious alliance in Ogakor is b/w Jerri and Bitchell. Bitchell's interviews regarding TC were evidence that he was voting in a group....he stated that Keith "doesn't know how close he is to getting voted off" and he stated that Kel was going to be the one voted off. Notice how he never phrased his answers in the "I'm voting for..." tone, he stated definitively who was getting voted off and who was close....like he had inside info i.e. an alliance.

The next most likely member is Amber...she hung around Jerri and Bitchell the whole episode, plus she was part of the group that rifled through Kel's porn and Jerky collection.

The only comment Colby had regarding Jerri is that she was annoying.

There is already evidence that Mad Dog and Tina are alligned in that they conversed with Kel regarding the vote. Since neither Mad Dog nor Tina voted the way they told Kel, it could be construed that Mad Dog and Tina had a later conversation in which they decided to renig on that aggreeement. But, there has been absolutely NO EVIDENCE to suggest that Mad Dog and Tina are alligned with Jerri.

>>Now the following tribe members do
>have reason/issues to be booted…
>
>Kimmi - Is annoying as hell
>but…
>1. She did win the
>last immunity challenge for her
>team. Some of you
>might point out that Stacy
>did the same last season
>but Kimmi is not Stacy.
>


....actually, besides the very first night in the tent, we have absoulutely NO EVIDENCE that Kimmi has annoyed any of her tribemates. For all we know, she may the most popular person in the tribe. further, teh only 2 people on record as being annoyed with Kimmi are Vermin and Debb...and since Debb is long gone, we only have ONE PERSON on record as being annoyed with Kimmi. Plus, the way they supported her after she screwed tehn in the immunity challenge supports the premise that she is quite popular.

Further, Kimmi did NOT win the immunity for her team....if she didn't wuss out on the cowbrains that whole tie breaker would not have been necessary....I'm sure her tribe realizes this.

>2. Also most of you
>probably saw how Kimmi was
>being supported after she could
>not eat the beef.
>I believe that Liz was
>specifically the one hugging her
>in support

....actually, Roger put his arm around her in support and then Michael came over and hugged her, but not before calling the tribe together to makes sure that his hugging of Kimmi would in no way be construed to suggest that he is the leader of Kuccha.

>Jeff - Is a complete
>jerk.
>1. Has a poor personality
>that has been shown during
>the "Mad Cow Buffet" challenge
>when he was mocking Tina.
> This won't play well.

....I'm disapointed in you CJ, you usually are very serious about your "spoiling", whereas this is quite careless detective work. Just because YOU think Jeff is a complet jerk (I do as well) doesn't mean that his tribe feels that he is a jerk. We have NOT SEEN ONE interview suggesting that Vermin is disliked. And his treatment of Tina at the IC is irrelevant b/c they aren't on the same tribe....it may affect him post-merger, if anyone even remembers that it happened. Vermin seems to get along fine with his tribe....in fact he seems to be getting along quite well with Chyna.


>3. He doesn't seem to
>mesh well with anyone in
>particular.

....where are you gettting this from???? He seems to get along just fine with Chyna. remember, all of Vermin's pettiness and bithing is done from the safety of a private interview, so his tribe can't hear him.

Kimmi and he
>are definitely not friends and
>in fact you can guess
>that Jeff will vote for
>her.

....I don't see that at all....sure he was pissed after the first night, but we haven't heard anything since to suggest that they are not getting along.

Alicia seems pleasant
>with Jeff but not especially
>friendly

....who does Chyna seem "especially friendly" with??? I think she gets along with Vermin as much if not more than anyone in her tribe.


Then, in your analysis of the vote, I think you are basing too much on each person's value or lack thereof....you are forgetting the possibility of an alliance deciding the vote. IF the vote was based on merit, there is no doubt that Rodger would be gone, but his perceived integrity could be very valuable to any budding alliance and would want to keep him around.

I think Jeff and Alicia are the most poweful people in this tribe....I think they will keep Roger around for the aforementioned reason, and I think Mike stays cause he is strong, catches fish and is a good fall guy as the perceived leader...plus, Jeff doesn't respect his intelligence which means he thinks he can outwit him in the later stages of the game.

I think the most vulnerable are Kimmi, Elisabethbeth and Nick.

Kimmi's got a big mouth so questions would arise as to whetehr she could be trusted in an alliance.

Nick is a Harvard Law School, and although we ahven't heard 5 words from him yet, I would assume that he is a bright guy...which would make him a threat to the alliance.

For the above 2 reasons, I think Liz survives the alliance for 2 votes.


I think Kimmi goes next, Nick sticks around cause he is a guy so he might help in the challenges, but he goes next time Kuccha loses.


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cowboyroo 590 desperate attention whore postings
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02-05-01, 10:27 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Why it won't be Kimmi"
But wouldn't that make Nick more likely to go first than after the tribe is already down one member. If it is Nick and Kimmi going back to back, I'd say Nick would have to go first and be mroe safe if Kucha is going to be have to be down two members.

Part of me wants to say Rodger is next. He slowed them down on Butch Cassidy and he apparently falls in the next challenge. Two BIG mistakes, yet no one is picking him for an ouster. Could this just be brilliant editting by MB to make the obvious less obvious and overlooked?

I'd think keeping your team back on two challenges becomes a red flag and may overrule red herring...

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xrunner 65 desperate attention whore postings
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02-05-01, 11:26 PM (EST)
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11. "It won't be Kimmi because it will be Jerri"
I don't quite understand everyone thinks it is Kimmi because she is annoying and if you think it is Jerri everyone says your only picking her because she is annoying.

Franking I think there is plenty of reason for Jerri to go. Most of them are on that other board.

I personally think everyone thinking Kimmi is going someone akind to GervaseX in reverse.

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Siebured 83 desperate attention whore postings
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02-06-01, 08:38 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: Why it won't be Kimmi"
Excellent post JC. I also have no faith in the first four theory.
In response to your voting projections:

1. I think Mike and Roger will be a voting block this time because they are mutually dependent on each other. I also think they'll vote for Jeff because Roger mentioned voting for him in Ep1, so he's already been a target.

2. Kimmi- I think she'll vote for Mike. We saw Mike making a spear to hunt wild pigs. (Kel said there were pigs near the Kucha camp) I think this will horrify her to no end. She also didn't appreciate Mike's prayer.

3. Jeff- Who knows what goes on in his mind? He's thinking, "What would Rich do?". Early on Rich voted out Stacey because he just didn't like her. I'll say Kimmi. He may vote for Mike because he sees him as a threat.

4. Alicia and Nick. I think Alicia is the real leader of this tribe. She seems to be the one everyone wants to be friends with. We don't know enough really, but I'd guess they'd vote for a weaker competitor. Roger perhaps maybe Liz.

That leaves Liz as the deciding vote. Whoever she protects stays. Whoever she dislikes goes. Probably Jeff, Mike is vital to her survival.

Roger is a weak competitor and after losing 2 challenges for his tribe it would be unrealistic for him not to get votes.

I really hope we're right about Kucha losing immunity though.

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weltek 16936 desperate attention whore postings
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02-06-01, 09:16 AM (EST)
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13. "Why I disagree with Jeff pick"
I wish this stupid show didn't stress me so much! I thought about your post, Conspiracy Jim, on the way home last night. I really trust your judgement just from reading your posts and others, but I just can't buy into Jeff getting the boot this time around. I have to premise my theory with my belief that Ogakor wins immunity. Here are my reasonings that Jeff isn't going-frivolous as they may be:

The only people that I see really disliking Jeff are the viewers. Sure, Kimmi and a few others had a bad thing or two to say on the first day after his puking episodes, but otherwise I don't see him as a target more than anyone else. He's a good competitor and is smarter than I think we give him credit for. He's saying bad stuff to the camera about people, but I think he's watching what he says around the tribe. Right now, his ability as a competitor is too valuable.

Saying that, I think Roger is out of here soon, as he's dragging the team down physically, but I think his integrity and efforts will hold him here for another week or so. No one will want him in the end as a competitor, as he's just too likeable. I also think that this is who Liz protects. She has been seen helping him in the challenges and seems the type to respect his efforts.

So, first four theory aside, I still think it's Kimmi:
I think Jeff still dislikes her and I think Jeff has a little more pull that we think. I think her birthday statement will be made this week and will be a turnoff for most. This isn't Temptation Island, it's not about sex. It's about the game, and therefore, I think the guys are going to send her a message that they aren't here for that and can't be manipulated by her pledge. The girls I think will be annoyed by this issue. Alicia seems really "no nonsense" and I think she'd have little tolerance for this high school behavior. Liz I think will be a tiny bit anoyed, making her vote swayable. As a women about Liz and Kimmi's age, I definitely don't see Liz protecting Kimmi. The way I see it, if a loudmouthed friend of mine was also a competitor of mine, I'd say that she was responsible for her own actions, and "Thanks for eating the worm," but no thanks on the cow brain. It's never a good think when the other team has fingered your weak member, even if it was for only one challenge.

Final expansion: Jeff, keepable for unknown shelf life. Kimmi-keepable for awhile until she started this going naked business. Liz-Keepable except for the fact that they won't want her in the final four-too likeable and she seems a bit naive. Alicia-she's a keeper for quite awhile-smart and strong. Roger-look for him to say goodbye in a few more episodes. Too weak. Michael-could go either way. If he watches what he says and does, he could be ok. I see a heart to heart tribal chat coming where he makes amends with the group. Nick-Is he still on the show? Hm. Somethings up with him. Can't get to the final four. I think we've already gotten to know the final fourers a little bit. The shows editors need to pull us in early. Rich, Susan, Rudy were pulling us in. Kelly was there with some presence(much like an Alicia..), but didn't fully develop until halfway through.

Man, this turned out to be a long thought process!

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