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"A great finale....FINALLY!"
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geekboy 1788 desperate attention whore postings
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12-13-04, 10:53 AM (EST)
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"A great finale....FINALLY!"
Hey all,

Thanks for a great season here on sblows.

beyond that, i didn't read any spoilers for the final episode, and i'm glad i dind't. I was shocked when they voted out Eliza, and in a way i was shocked Chris took Twila, so i thoroughly enjoyed the final episode.

Chris played the best game, but I was rooting for Twila the entire season. She played about as well as Chris did, so they definately deserved to be in the final 2. Part of me wishes Twila won, but i'm not upset.

There is one thing about Survivor that makes me come back season after season, and this season was no different.

When will people realize that they're playing a GAME out there, and part of the GAME is to lie, cheat and steal? Me and my wife call it 'getting the Survivor Stupids', and every season it still happens. I don't get people like Eliza who hold this grudge, when they do the same thing themselves. Its amazing, yet fun to watch.

Thanks again, and looking forward to seeing more people get the "Survivor Stupids" next season.

geekboy

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: A great finale....FINALLY! Loree 12-13-04 1
 RE: A great finale....FINALLY! Sue 12-13-04 2
 RE: A great finale....FINALLY! ADKer 12-13-04 3
   RE: A great finale....FINALLY! geekboy 12-13-04 5
 RE: A great finale....FINALLY! Pretty_Kitty 12-13-04 4
 RE: A great finale....FINALLY! The Gelf 12-13-04 6
 RE: A great finale....FINALLY! memacmur 12-13-04 7
 RE: A great finale....FINALLY! emydi 12-13-04 8
   Twila screwed up dabo 12-13-04 9
 RE: A great finale....FINALLY! Kiddiepool 12-13-04 10
   RE: A great finale....FINALLY! katethegreat 12-14-04 13
 RE: A great finale....FINALLY! applejack93 12-14-04 11
 RE: A great finale....FINALLY! DRONES 12-14-04 12
   RE: A great finale....FINALLY! cadfile 12-14-04 14

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Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings
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12-13-04, 11:09 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: A great finale....FINALLY!"
I enjoyed the finale too. And I thought it was a rather weak and dull season. But the finale was entertaining and I was happy with the F2. Unlike Marquesas where I loved that season but hated how it ended with the F2.
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Sue 104 desperate attention whore postings
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12-13-04, 11:36 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: A great finale....FINALLY!"
I agree.

I would have preferred to see Twila win. I was in tears during her final speech. The final 2 were prepared and articulate. The jury speeches were entertaining and not too far over the top.

While the finale wasn't spoiled, the boot order ended up being just I would have done if I were Chris and won the last 2 immunities. Sorry about that, Eliza. I wonder whether Twila would have booted out Chris if she won either immunity.

The 2 brightest moments in Vanautu were the Leann boot and the finale. I also loved the scenery.

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ADKer 143 desperate attention whore postings
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12-13-04, 12:41 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: A great finale....FINALLY!"
Chris was a deserving winner but not more so than Twila. Chris flattered and gave semi-sincere apologies better but Twila engineered the ousting of Amy, which allowed Chris and the googly-eyed stick insect to continue in the game. I have no problem with Chris as a winner, but I think that there is a double standard. Those betrayed by Chris forgave him; only Amy forgave Twila. I don't believe that Sarge knew at the final tribal council that Twila voted against him because of Julie's lie about a final four pact with the men, but Sarge shold know that by now and it should have made a difference to him. Scout redeemed herself in my eyes - she was right on in her comments about the line of bull from Chris and the hypocrisy of the jury. Other deserving players have lost - Kathy, Lex and Colby come to mind - and Chris is at least as good a player as the winners in those seasons, but Twila deserved better!
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geekboy 1788 desperate attention whore postings
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12-13-04, 12:54 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: A great finale....FINALLY!"
Great post, adker. You hit the nail on the head.

The group of jury members - barring scout - were exreme hypocrites. I just bothers me to no end when they continually harp on the ONE line by twila re: her son, and then they all forgive Chris when he stabbed a good majority of them in the back. I can't give the jury a lot of points for brain power and common sense. It wasn't the brightest jury in recent memory.

I hold nothing against Chis for piling on the BS at the TC, since i for one understand this is a game (unlike the jury). By the same token, at least Twila was honest and sincere at TC. Coming out of TC, i could not predict how the vote would go and i was surprised by the women, but that's a good thing since in the end it was a surprise.

geekboy

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Pretty_Kitty 536 desperate attention whore postings
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12-13-04, 12:48 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: A great finale....FINALLY!"
I am very disapointed that Twila didnt win I felt like she wanted it more and did what she had to do to get to the final 2 oh well better Chris won than Eliza I didnt bother to watch the reunion show becasue I honestly didnt care about these people I was very Suprised when Eliza got the boot and Twila ended up in the final 2 so I would agree that except for the final outcome the finale was great
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The Gelf 11 desperate attention whore postings
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12-13-04, 12:57 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: A great finale....FINALLY!"
I agree that it's a game and that people shouldn't let emotions get in the way of that and hold grudges. But it's easy to say that in the comforts of home writing on a message board. When you play your heart out for a million dollars and somebody beats you, especially after lying to you, a level of anger is certainly understandable. As Twila said, people kill for less money than that. I think Julie also explained it well on Survivor Live. She went into the game fully intending to keep her emotions in check but ultimately let herself get sucked into what she thought was a legit friendship. It's easy to say you shouldn't become friends with people and shouldn't let that affect gameplay, but when you've got no one else out there for 39 days, it's toughly to be stoic the whole time. People have a need for companionship and a need to confide in others. When that friendship was betraywed, anger was completely understandable, even if you're playing a game.

I'm not saying Chris was wrong to do what he did (though I think he could have done it in a more straightforward manner), but I understand why Jules wouldn't be so quick to just say, "it's only a game."

As for Eliza, you also have to empathize a bit. For pretty much the entire time she was on the island, she was beraded (however correctly) as spoiled, whiny, and most importantly, undeserving. I don't that any cast member in the show's history was so consistently disrespected in front of others. That's going to create some anger after awhile. It's going to create a desire to lash out. Eliza thought she FINALLY found someone she could trust in Chris, and he betrayed her. She was already vulnerable at that point. Again, the anger might be misguided, but it's understandable.

In addition, there will never be a game where everyone plays stoically. Even if such situation were possible with 20 human beings living together for 39 days, MB would never allow it. There'd be no drama - no reason to vote people out other than pre-formed alliances. It would make the game more boring and less watchable in the end.

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memacmur 359 desperate attention whore postings
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12-13-04, 01:02 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: A great finale....FINALLY!"
Yes. A fun season here on sblows, where I chose to read more than post on this season(everyone else is better at spoiling than me anyways).

Reading insight and opionions from the like of VerucaSalt and Krautboy in the editting and vidcap threads greatly enhance my overall enjoyment of Survivor. So keep up the good work (those named plus the legions of other excellent posters who I can't name for fear of an Oscar winner-esque painfully long post).

It was one of the more fun final TCs I've seen in a long time. Lots of emotion dropped on Chris and Twila - and I enjoyed the differnt ways they handled it. I had my final boot order off (Eliza and Twila switched), but kudos to Chris as one of the best players to also win Survivor! And Twila - you had me questioning Chris's mortal lock on the million dollar cheque with that last speech. Good stuff.

Fabulous finale, IMHO. I was rolling on the floor when JP left TC using his machete to make his way to his airplane.

Bring on the next season!
MEmacmur

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emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings
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12-13-04, 01:08 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: A great finale....FINALLY!"
I agree that it was a good finale and final TC

Twila, remember, was edited as the F2 "villian" for lack of a better word. She redeemed herself last nite at final TC. I think she had better speeches and answers (except to Eliza) than Chris did (overall)

I think she may have won (probably not though) if they had voted last nite. It would have been 4-3 anyway with Julie changing her vote, imo

I think Chris was edited as a man who, against all odds (balancing, 6 women vs. him) came out the winner ala Leann's reasoning for voting for him. So he was more positively edited and like Ami said, he didn't have a pact with Ami/Leann so when Twila swore on her son's life it meant something to A and L whereas if Chris had done it....eh?

I thought it was going to come down to Leann's vote after the TC (I thought Julie (moreso) or Eliza would vote Twila bc of Chris lying to them).


Also, it looks like Twila will cost CBS a fine for saying Bullsh...er on TES this morning...they said they were on tape delay...but ooops no they weren't

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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
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12-13-04, 01:14 PM (EST)
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9. "Twila screwed up"
She should have told Sarge straight up that if she'd sided with him to save Rory her game would have been over then and there. It's a game, sorry man but that's how the chips fell.

She should have told Ami and Leann, about the swearing on her son's name thing, that when she did that she fully meant it even though they were putting her on the spot and giving her a hard time; but then they went and put Scout on the spot and gave her an even harder time, and then they went and decided to oust Eliza instead of Chris, so they had it coming and they can shut up about the women's alliance BS because they were both full of it.

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Kiddiepool 25 desperate attention whore postings
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12-13-04, 04:29 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: A great finale....FINALLY!"
It is human nature to trust, particularly when you are in a survival situation. Julie so much as said you cannot know how emotional the game is until you are playing it. Only two people were playing the game from the minute they hit the beach - Chris and Twila. And neither one of them ever put all their trust in anyone else.

On Yasur: The Bowheads were sunning themselves. Lisa was pretending to be young enough to be a bowhead. Ami was creating a women's alliance. Leann and Scout were riding the coattails of Ami's vague plan. But Twila was thinking about a million dollars. She didn't need to make friends...yet. She certainly never trusted anyone, and thus was always looking outside her alliance -- while at Lopevi and after the merge. But she only ever had one friend: Scout. Twila burned the bridge Ami had extended by turning on her and Leann, and Twila never even tried to be nice to Eliza or, after Leann was booted, her Lopevi buddy Julie . This was ultimately her downfall...she had only one friend on the jury.

On Lopevi: Brook, John P, John K, and to some extent Brady, were basking in their athleticism, while dismissing the power of numbers of the so-called f-t five. Rory, Travis, and Chad were listening to and trusting Sarge, and Sarge was playing, well, Army Sargeant. Chris was the one making plans, making friends, and diverting attention away from himself. This is what won it for him... the first two jury members were his friends, the second two had nothing against him, and the 5th & 6th could clearly understand they'd been outplayed by him.

Some winners have lucked out and made it to the end by having the right friends. Others (Richard, Brian, Romber) had a plan, and kept to it 'til the end. They played for money, not for friendships (except Romber of course).

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katethegreat 207 desperate attention whore postings
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12-14-04, 07:21 AM (EST)
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13. "RE: A great finale....FINALLY!"
Great analysis. You put into clear ideas my initial thought, which is that Chris won because he is more likeable. But both Chris and Twila played good games and kept their eyes on the game.
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applejack93 288 desperate attention whore postings
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12-14-04, 05:01 AM (EST)
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11. "RE: A great finale....FINALLY!"
LAST EDITED ON 12-14-04 AT 05:03 AM (EST)

THe one thing that annoys me about every survivor finale (including this one) is the constant discussion of whether or not a player 'deserves' to be where they are, and whether or not one player 'respects' another players style of playing. For instance, I believe Colby once said (in All-stars) that he did not respect UTR playing. I also heard Twila say this season that she did not respect Eliza for riding other peoples ideas and thus did not deserve to be in the final four. I have also heard countless people say that people who are conflict-dodgers rather than 'power players' don't deserve to get anywhere. But the fact is: Sure, Eliza may have latched on to other peoples movements (e.g. second episode) and she may have ridden others' coat-tails - but when one is as constantly targeted (as Eliza) one has no choice BUT to do that, and she did it to great effect. Scout made F3 because she did something right. She deserves to be there, regardless of whether she made any serious game-changing decisions. She managed to dodge the bullet constantly, and was never really on the chopping block. Therefore I never think of whether one way of playing is better than the other - dodging the bullet can be much harder than firing it. That is why I disliked Twila by the end and that is what irritated me about the finale. People never seem to have respect for the player that is able to stay out of trouble - and with everybody trying to pick on Eliza (and throughout the season as well) I got very irritated. Of course, this makes for great television and is one of the reasons I love the show - the irritation. IT gets me so passionate.

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DRONES 615 desperate attention whore postings
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12-14-04, 06:42 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: A great finale....FINALLY!"
In the time before Chris and Twilla went to the final TC to face questioning from the jury, the irony of another key quote of his was shown. In the first episode Chris made two key quotes, the second was that the object of the game was to outwit, outplay, outlast, not out balance, the first quote was that I can manipulate men a heck of a lot easier than women.

Chris and Twilla were talking at camp on their last day and Chris was telling her how he didn't think he was going to take any crap from the jury. He convinces Twilla that he is not going to take any crap and that she shouldn't either....fast forward to TC. Twilla is the first to answer the jurys question, Eliza I think, and she responds in a very confrontational manner. Chris when his turn came up was very appologetic. The last piece of irony was revealed that Chris could indeed manipulate women just as well as men.

Chris, IMHO, is the single best winner this game has seen. He was in a group of 6 women that had formed a semi strong bond/alliance. He scratched, clawed and fought his way out of the situation he was in. He was presented with an opportunity and he took advantage and against all odds without an alliance partner he made it all the way to the F2 and won. Kudos to him and step aside Dicque, you've been dethrowned.


Now onto my soap box
What do Ami, Leann, Julie, Twilla, Scout and Chris all have in common? They all voted for Eliza once at TC's.

Julie needs to put away the tears. She was a part of Lopevi and betrayed them without shedding a tear. She didn't have any problem voting for her "good friend" Eliza. Julie was playing the game and she did what she had to do. Those croc tears may get her a gig ona soap opera but they don't work on me for a second. Julie got out manipulated by Chris. She tried flashing some skin and it didn't work.

Ami considered Eliza her sister yet she didn't have a problem voting her because she was so annoying. Ami could give a rip about Eliza until she was on the chopping block. Ami went into the game with a set strategy and it fell apart as those sort of strategies tend to do. It's good for her that she let go of the anger against Twilla. Hey Ami, nice comments about Scouts phsyical condition.

Scout was as vicious and nasty at the end as anybody. She made some equally bad comments about the players as they passed their torches. She ripped on Eliza to her face and behind her back.

Eliza complains how she was treated by Scout and Twilla yet she was equally viscous in hammering Twilla and she sure didn't hold back on making fun of Scout about her physical limitations.

Sarge was had by the friendship of Twilla and the beauty of Julie. It was good to see that he and Twilla are friends again as I believe above any of the other player on this game his comments hurt her the most.

Some are getting on Chris about lying to Julie and Eliza(the only two people that he openly lied to in the game). The lies he told were in the context of the game. He betrayed these two women. He manipulated them and he won. He beat those two at their own game. They came into the game wanting to trade on their looks to manipulate men. It didn't work and now they cry and whine because they were beaten by a better player. Chris respected all of the women as competitors. He never underestimated them, not to the very end. Chris did one of the best jobs of dancing around why he picked Twilla as his F2 oponent. He certainly didn't rub salt in the wound.

Twilla really impressed me. She was humble and very under controll.


DRONES

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cadfile 176 desperate attention whore postings
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12-14-04, 11:14 AM (EST)
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14. "RE: A great finale....FINALLY!"
Some great comments so far.

They had a good final four this edition. Anyone of them winning would have been a good capper.

Eliza, the target and floater. Twila, crabby straight shooter. Scout, token older person UTR player. Chris, last man left in woman dominated season. With the exception of Scout I would have been happy with anyone of them winning.

Who played a better game? Chris. That is what is important. Not who was loyal, friendly, or honest. The game is for one person to win the money so you had better do what YOU need to do to get ahead. Chris did that on day one when hooking up with the fat five. He had Sarge's ear from the get go.

Chris also had a bit of luck. When Twila and Scout finally decided to get rid of Leann when he was the last man left and next to be booted after the merge. Once he caught that break I knew he had a chance to win it all. Winning the last 2 ICs was another lucky break.

Twila argued with every body on the women's side. This made her a loner (like Rory on the men's side) She didn't really start playing the game until she finally helped boot Leann. Remember she had 2 previous chances to break up the Ami power center and both times she went back on her word at TC. She also had some luck when she and Julie were on the mixed up Lopevi. Had the men done the right thing and voted off her or Julie or both before the merge Twila would have been done as a player.

Eliza was a floater from day one and instead of playing the game for the long run struck out when she felt wronged. That is what brought down the women's aliance. They made it personal and took themselves out. Twila pegged Eliza when she commented that everybody used Eliza and they did. The only way she would had a chance to win the money was if she had won the F4 and F3 ICs.

Scout was the token. No threat in the challenges she was along simply because of that. She had ideas but like Twila she had 2 previous opportunities to bring down Ami's power group and she declined. She had less of a risk to do it but didn't anyway. She was also vindictive at the end. On one face telling us at TC that Chris and Twila were the best and deserved to move on while on the other face telling us at final TC that Chris gave everyone a load of BS. Most of the booted players had said how much Scout could be so nasty in a soothing motherly way. She also was stupid lying to Chris about the aliance with Twila after the final IC. Had she sold out Twila she would have been F2.

--
Doug

Cousin Eddie: Every time Catherine would turn on the microwave, I'd pee my pants and forget who I was for about half an hour.

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