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PLEASE NOTE: The Reality TV World Message Boards are filled with desperate
attention-seekers pretending to be one big happy PG/PG13-rated family. Don't
be fooled. Trying to get everyone to agree with you is like herding cats,
but intolerance for other viewpoints is NOT welcome and respect for other
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As entertainment critic Roger
Ebert once said, "If you disagree with something I write, tell me so, argue
with me, correct me--but don't tell me to shut up. That's not the American way."
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"Technical vs. Show Dance"
Sagebrush Dan 9787 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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08-04-06, 03:15 PM (EST)
 
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"Technical vs. Show Dance" |
LAST EDITED ON 08-04-06 AT 03:49 PM (EST)Any thoughts on this? I found Mia to be right on this, but also more than a little patronizing to Benji in the first part of her speech (I also think the guy is still just plain exhausted and battling strep throat). I think more credit should be given to the value of show dancing. I know there is snobbery between ballet, ballroom, competitive, and show dancing (and how many others are out there). I have been depressed as all get out when I start to watch SYTYCD, but after watching Benji do his stuff, I feel great and ready to get on with life. That, to me, is one of the purposes of talent--be it music, painting, dance, whatever--is to heal the rest of us. It helps us get through life because we get so jazzed by the beauty, fun, and inspiration of it all. For what it's worth, Gene Kelly, Fred Astaire, Ginger Rogers, Cyd Charisse? All essentially show dancers and all make me feel like a million bucks after watching them. I can appreciate the artistry of Travis, but his persona doesn't do anything for me. Thoughts? 
One of the Tribe
It wasn't the butt of a mule. I was kissing a human being with a soul.
-Heath Ledger on his famous liplock with Jake Gyllenhaal
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Snidget 43131 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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08-04-06, 03:32 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Technical vs. Show Dance" |
I think ideally you want someone who is perfect technically and a great performer. However it is really hard to find someone who is at the top of the heap for both. Most people will be stronger in technique or performance.For someone who knows what the stuff should look like may appreciate the technical expert more than the emotive one because poor execution of the moves can distract if you know what you are looking for. For the general audience, I think most would prefer a great performer over a perfect technician. It is like me listening to music, particularly live music where you can't fix the slight imperfections in technique with "studio magic". I took a lot of music theory classes as a kid so developed near perfect relative pitch (everyone has to be together, but they don't have to be on the right note). Great for doing well on music theory listen and tell me what you hear tests, but not always so good for live music. If the technique isn't there (especially with someone that does heavy vibrato and doesn't do it quite right) I can hear all the places they are off, sometimes cheap instruments will set me off as they don't have all the secondary vibrations tuned well, either. I don't care how lively you are on stage, how engaging you are, if you do not have the technique down I'm hitting the mute button or leaving. Now with dance I don't know all the technical fine points as well so I tend to like the performer more than someone who is technically perfect but a cold fish. In this case the errors don't distract me so much I can't enjoy the performance. I can see where if you know what you are looking for everything being done wrong keeps you from enjoying the personality. I do like when someone can point out the technically well done stuff because I do have an appreciation for something done extremely well even if I might prefer the one who wears their heart on their sleeve and makes it fun to watch.
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riverrocker 298 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
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08-04-06, 05:29 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Technical vs. Show Dance" |
LAST EDITED ON 08-04-06 AT 05:30 PM (EST)Well, at the risk of being so uneducated as to be "ruled a fool," how about "how" the dancers just "appeal"? Technical training is important--think Musa, who had heart, but found learning the moves in a short time a real challenge--but "persona" IMHO makes a viewer "want" to watch. Hubby and I LOVE to watch these kiddos dance--we're old enough to be their grandparents  but some of them just seem to convey a more "commanding" presence, particularly Benji, Heidi,& Travis. We were real fans of the ballroom & Latin dance competitions that used to be shown on cable, but honestly, if one misstep occurs--unless the person actually falls--it doesn't keep me from enjoying it. I think the judges here are trying to "influence" the voting by their comments, which is probably working to a degree.....but I still vote for the one whom "I" like the best. ;)
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riverrocker 298 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
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08-05-06, 05:38 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Technical vs. Show Dance" |
Yep, watched the competitions on PBS, but I think there was another cable channel that had them too; however, it was a few years back. We LOVED watching the "pros" dance! Got us so hooked, that we--gasp!--even watch "Dancing with the Stars"! ;)
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Sagebrush Dan 9787 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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08-05-06, 08:59 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Technical vs. Show Dance" |
I don't have cable, so have to stick with PBS. It was the PBS shows that got me hooked. I taped a contest—I think it was the last one they had—and still have it. There is a Russian couple on there that was phenomenal. She wore pants with lots of fringe. The two did a contemporary routine where they snapped in identical movements without even facing each other. Brought the house down, but they didn't even place. Ron Montez hinted that it was because they were so non-traditional.Hmm, maybe we should have a site to discuss those—or maybe sneakily do them on here? Couldn't get into Dancing with the Stars, but I'm going to give it another shot.
One of the Tribe
It wasn't the butt of a mule. I was kissing a human being with a soul.
-Heath Ledger on his famous liplock with Jake Gyllenhaal
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CattyChat 3379 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
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08-04-06, 05:32 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Technical vs. Show Dance" |
I actually thought Mia's comments were a bit unfair. I felt as though she was saying contemporary is "technical" dancing and if you don't know that, you're just entertainment.There are different styles of dance. Travis is awesome as a contemporary dancer, but to say he's superior to the others is unfair. He really struggled with the ballroom dances and couldn't get those techniques right and towards the end he improved. So how is he more versatile than Heidi who excelled in all areas except Mia's contemporary routine where she struggled? I respect Mia's critiques, as a whole, and think they are usually right on, but I definitely feel as though she favors her style and doesn't give credit to ballroom or some other styles of dance. I also felt maybe Mia hasn't been watching the show. When she told Heidi she never thought she would be able to do the AfroPop after Heidi was with her a couple weeks prior. What about the Afro-infused rhumba Heidi did with Ryan a few weeks back? Heidi nailed it and there were similarities. Anyway, I just felt as though Mia wasn't giving any respect to ballroom dancers in her comments. As though they are just entertainers and there aren't difficult technical elements there as well. 
Kind Creation of ARNutz
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irishrose 75 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"
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08-04-06, 08:00 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Technical vs. Show Dance" |
I thought the same thing last night she praised the Contemporary dancers above all of the others.
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DancindivaCD 6 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
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08-10-06, 02:05 AM (EST)
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23. "RE: Technical vs. Show Dance" |
Hi, sorry if I'm replying a little late or something, but I had to comment.First of all, what I took from what Mia said was that this is a *reality* show. And that means that it's judged by what personalities the general untrained public like - NOT by who is the best dancer. Mia said exactly what I'd been feeling every time I've watched this show. The point is this: technique is crucial. There are other things that are crucial to being a great dancer as well, like performance and emotion and so forth, but technique is the backbone. If you don't have that, then you're just faking your way through. And that's what America doesn't see...They don't know what these guys and girls are supposed to be doing with their feet or their legs or their arms...They only see their big smiles and flashy moves. And yes, that's appealing. But it doesn't mean they're the best dancers. Take Benji, for example. He's been extremely lucky to have chosen Ballroom as much as he has. When he dances, I can blatantly see obvious mistakes that he makes that are fundamental to the techniques of dance. It drives me up the wall that people rave about him because all he is smiles and "show". He fakes it really well, so well that you don't notice that he doesn't have some of the fundamental techniques down. And like Nigel commented on tonights show, it clearly shows through that he hasn't had classical training. If you have great technique, then you have the foundation to build upon. You might not know a particular form of dance very well, but you will pick it up a LOT faster because you have technique. You can't fake technique. Saying that Mia isn't giving ballroom dancers respect is kinda funny to me...She didn't direct her comments towards ballroom at all, so that's a huge assumption. Ballroom does have technique. I believe Mia was talking about the show and it's biases, not any particular form of dance. She's obviously shown respect to all kinds, and you can clearly see it in her amazing blend of choreography. Personally, I have a ton of respect for Mia. She is absolutely amazing and has never once even remotely resembled being cocky at all. Just my 2 cents.
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soldiersmom 126 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
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08-10-06, 07:23 AM (EST)
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24. "RE: Technical vs. Show Dance" |
LAST EDITED ON 08-10-06 AT 07:26 AM (EST)Personally - I took Mia's comments and translated them this way: "Benji I know the audience loves you and you're the front runner to win this whole thing. I think, however, the audience is silly to let you win and they should know how weak of a dancer you really are so that my favorite Travis can win." Personally I think it was a low shot even for her. However, in the end I voted for Travis and technical skill had nothing to do with it. When Travis and Benji were dancing together - I found myself always watching Travis. Again, in the last number - Travis just killed it - and again - I found myself watching him. I barely noticed Donyelle the whole night - she just fizzled out to me. Heidi - well - I put her 3rd, then Benji, then Travis. 
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drooler 67 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"
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08-10-06, 12:50 PM (EST)
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25. "Ballet, Ballet, Ballet" |
I'm the mother of a kid who danced for 13 years. We went to several dance workshops around the country, as well as her regular classes. She took ballet, jazz, tap, & contemporary. (Ask me about costume bills if you want to faint.) In all the workshops there were specialists teaching various styles. All of them said no matter what you want to dance you should take ballet, ballet, ballet. They considered it the foundation of everything else. It builds flexibility, strength, musicality, and the awareness of technique. Example: Though ballet teaches you to hold your hands a certain graceful way for each position--the main point is that it teaches you your hands are important.The prima ballerinas are those who are fabulous technicians who can express the music through their personalities. So at the top of any dance style, ya gotta have both. For SYTYCD I don't think the technical stuff matters that much to the audience, but if a dancer is not feeling confident in his or her own technical ability, doesn't that affect the performance? I think so.
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FOXmePUHLEEZ 172 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
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08-11-06, 03:07 PM (EST)
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26. "RE: Technical vs. Show Dance" |
This vision of Nigel's has definitely improved MY life. It has inspired me more than greatly. Benji's energy does the same thing for me. Some of Mia's choreography, some of Shane's, etc. I do have some closing remarks for Nigel, however, that I will put somewhere.Travis has not metamorphosed ... just grown like all hell, not just in dance, but in his stage persona and in his confidence level. Somewhere along the way, he plugged TOTALLY in. But, of course, I voted for Donyelle.
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