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"After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"	04-02-04, 04:12 PM (EST)
"After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"
Due to the fact we have encountered yet another tweak of the game, I thought it was best served to start another one of these threads. The other two are here: After the Dissolve....... http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID2/4883.shtml The Players, The Game......... http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID2/4813.shtml I read the comments at the end of the last thread and great observations everyone. What a interesting episode this was!! As always, forgive my longwindness of my observations. This show certainly makes me like to type Well we were waiting for the Godfather to really appear and he did so in all his glory and nicely capped by Kathy in her opinion of how "Godfather" it was You do me a favor, I do you one - if we start seeing horses, look out Now onto the players/tribes observations. There was some real changes to some and not so much with others. What does this mean? I'm not sure. Their stories may be hitting a crescendo and crashing or hitting a high note and never looking back. So now we have an official cross mixing of tribes prior to any merger, what fun!! All the talking and alliance promising. I must admit the Rob/Lex "connection" was incredible to see. Lex choosing Rob for his "power lunch" revealing how he was so ready for merger and individual this, individual that (unfortunately Lex has been playing this game mostly as an individual this whole time instead of really looking at this as keeping a strong tribe going) Lex's desperation is showing along with his banking on the fact that Tom will be there for him come merger. The irony would be that Lex will be the victim of exactly what he has "dished" through the season. "This is business" His thoughts to Ethan about friendship being separate may be exactly what he faces as well. Unfortunately Jerri's final words to him maybe foreshadowing at its finest: "He'll stab you in the back first chance he gets" (Tom may, in fact, be indirectly involved in this) The almost comical editing of Lex, Kathy and Shii Ann standing around to discuss the ousting of Jerri and/or Amber............ (So Lex states ”Okay, let’s think of alternatives:............. (I was waiting for flies to buzz around thier heads) .............lends credence to just how comical their tribe really is and was directly parallel with the complete ignorance over the paint; all we heard from them....... We don't know what to do........ Very representative of the upcoming twiddle thumbs huddle over Jerri/Amber. The question now is what becomes the result of this move and will they know what to do from here on out? Shii Ann and Rupert's conversation left nothing to my imagination. They both were true to character, revealing a lot but neither in a position to have loose lips and be powerful. These two, in a sad way are almost so hungry for something in a tribe that they end up shooting themselves in the foot. SA again showing that over the top exuberance in a new setting (much like when she got transplanted over to Chuay and her excitement..) Unfortunately, SA's comment about picking Rupert was true......... "We are completely alone out here" No question this summed up Rupert and SA perfectly. SA's precarious standing is painfully obvious but Rupert's is as well within the complexities of his tribe. He has no solid alliance with a leader who does not like him and only one former Saboga who has solidly placed herself within the realm of the power players. Rupert AND SA are most definitely alone out there. Rupert just has an advantage in the tribe he is in now and lucky that II's are around the corner Rupert and Tom were shown in an interesting bonding situation in the beginning that took up quite a bit of Survivor time. Ironically thier bonding was mixed still with a "big boy" competition. For whatever reason I just foresee a Tom or Rupert decision coming down the pike. The most obvious referencing of this display is now they lost the means to a fish by losing thier tribe and everything that came with it. Alicia and Jenna had some interesting observations during this episode but nothing involving any type of overt strategy being recognized. Though Jenna was very wise in her encouragement with Rob about Amber's situation. Alicia, in true form, thinks the other tribe "sucks" Now that we know for next week that Rob forms a union with Alicia SOLELY based on not knowing Amber's situation, Alicia will soon see that she is back where she started with regard to her own tribe dynamics. Her mouth will get her in trouble because that is who she is. (Insert a rant here because frankly these people amaze me with how much they could really do with all the vulnerable players and will most likely be led to the slaughterhouse.) (The other thing AGAIN is what has been said from Day One, they are for the most part NOT learning from their mistakes and essentially playing the same game as last time, right down to Lex’s “You are getting the boot” warning) I really had high hopes for Kathy. When she first arrived, we heard smatterings from her about this game is psychological. For someone who KNOWS how emotional playing can lead to trouble, she got herself so mesmerized by the Chapera aura, it was a drug to her. Even now with her statements:So Godfather of him where she was PERFECTLY aware of how he operates and really has to know that trusting Rob is like trusting Enron yet her other statement It’s depressing being on the losing tribe took over any POSSIBLE objective thought process. In the scheme of things, Lex and Kathy and by default, SA, really had no other choice but to boot Jerri and trade on favors by keeping Amber. While a lot of you feel it was an extremely stupid move, I wouldn’t say it was stupid BUT it was a sign of complete DESPERATION at this point (mainly due to all the prior moves MM did that were not smart) And don’t think Rob and his tribe won’t be perfectly aware of what it means to keep Amber over one of their own. This episode really jumped out of me regarding the “decision” A course has now been set that really set the turning point to this game in my opinion. Almost like that part in the movie where you see that "in your face" change of direction My issue with Rob (game playing thus far quite outstanding but it was quite good in S4 as well) is that his wheeling and dealing has now touched everyone (except with Shii Ann directly) and indirectly Amber assisted by telling Kathy that A/K/L/T/R were a faction. Rob has told Amber they are one, Rob has told J/R/A they are one, Rob has told T/A they are one, Rob told Lex they are one, Rob is now going to tell Alicia they are one (Ironically SA with her “Rob is the dangerous one” is the only one to not have a direct line to him) There are just too many people out there Rob has secured himself with but everyone knows (or they do NOW) that his main purpose is Amber. Not one person out there doesn’t know how he feels now; that is dangerous. Rob WILL betray someone because he made bargains with everyone. No doubt, Kathy and Lex will end up on the short end of the stick and then Alicia, Rupert, then Jenna, then Tom (I don’t include SA b/c Rob did not make a direct deal with him) depending on any immunities won. Rob’s arc skyrocketed yet his vulnerability over losing Amber was clear. If nothing else I see Rob losing at the hands of Amber either directly or indirectly. My past observations had been that emotional playing is trouble and it appeared that those who were playing with a level of non emotion or being overlooked fare the best. Rob is slowly heading more and more toward emotional play. He took a big chance by exposing his vulnerability. His luck will be that others can’t capitalize on it but he exposed a weakness here. I see a big crescendo but then his ousting somehow involved with Amber. He mentioned about wanting the “girl and the million” I don’t know that he will have that option. As of now, Shii Ann is probably in the worst position. Rob may honor Kathy and Lex with a pardon. Since we have an II, SA is not my choice to win a physical one and SA is just the next casualty. Unless Kathy and Lex (who by this time will probably see the writing on their collective wall) rally the troops to overthrow the nucleus of the old Chapera faction, only individual immunities may save them.
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Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID

RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... bdemoney 04-02-04 1

   RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... Loree 04-02-04 4

       RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... Brownroach 04-02-04 5

RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... CRyanShort 04-02-04 2

RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... memacmur 04-02-04 3

   RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... RyrieRae 04-02-04 6

   RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... KeithFan 04-03-04 28

Why double immunity? tommiettop 04-02-04 7

   RE: Why double immunity? Loquatrix 04-02-04 13

       RE: Why double immunity? KeithFan 04-03-04 29

           RE: Why double immunity? Loquatrix 04-04-04 39

               RE: Why double immunity? speedyforme 04-04-04 40

                   RE: Why double immunity? Loquatrix 04-04-04 41

                       RE: Why double immunity? speedyforme 04-04-04 42

RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... mtopaz 04-02-04 8

   RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... emydi 04-04-04 34

RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... Brownroach 04-02-04 9

   RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... speedyforme 04-02-04 11

       RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... Brownroach 04-02-04 14

           RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... sondral 04-03-04 25

       RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... Loree 04-02-04 16

RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... idiotcowboy 04-02-04 10

   RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... SouperStar 04-02-04 12

   RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... Loquatrix 04-02-04 15

       RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... Flowerpower 04-02-04 17

RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... DRONES 04-03-04 18

RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... KObrien_fan 04-03-04 19

   RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... VerucaSalt 04-03-04 20

       RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... Loquatrix 04-03-04 21

           RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... VerucaSalt 04-03-04 22

           RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... MDSkinner 04-03-04 23

               RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... sondral 04-03-04 26

                   RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... MDSkinner 04-03-04 27

           "next move" and "serious consequenc... I_AM_HE 04-03-04 24

               RE: "next move" and "serious conseq... DRONES 04-04-04 30

                   RE: "next move" and "serious conseq... Flowerpower 04-04-04 31

                       RE: "next move" and "serious conseq... Loree 04-04-04 33

                       RE: "next move" and "serious conseq... DRONES 04-05-04 43

                           RE: "next move" and "serious conseq... PepeLePew13 04-05-04 44

                               RE: "next move" and "serious conseq... DRONES 04-08-04 50

                   RE: "next move" and "serious conseq... Loree 04-04-04 32

                       RE: "next move" and "serious conseq... Flowerpower 04-04-04 35

                           RE: "next move" and "serious conseq... speedyforme 04-04-04 36

                               RE: "next move" and "serious conseq... Loree 04-04-04 37

                                   RE: "next move" and "serious conseq... emydi 04-04-04 38

                   RE: "next move" and "serious conseq... PepeLePew13 04-05-04 45

                       RE: "next move" and "serious conseq... VerucaSalt 04-05-04 46

RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... ManateeBob 04-06-04 47

   RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... VerucaSalt 04-07-04 48

       RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... thetick 04-08-04 49

           RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... VerucaSalt 04-08-04 51

               RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... thetick 04-09-04 52

       RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... katethegreat 04-09-04 53

           RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... Flowerpower 04-09-04 54

               RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... VerucaSalt 04-09-04 55

                   Rupert/Jenna udg 04-09-04 56

                       So why did Rupert pick Amber first? okaloosajohn 04-10-04 68

                           RE: So why did Rupert pick Amber fi... udg 04-10-04 69

                       Rob/Jenna stress? udg 04-11-04 79

               RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... I_AM_HE 04-09-04 59

                   RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... emydi 04-09-04 61

                   RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... redbeard103152 04-09-04 62

           RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... managerr 04-09-04 57

       RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... Ra_8secs 04-09-04 64

Post merge, race to F2 KObrien_fan 04-09-04 58

   RE: Post merge, race to F2 Ra_8secs 04-09-04 65

Post-Merge Alliances MattyMax 04-09-04 60

   Post-Merge Alliances OR That's not ... SouperStar 04-09-04 67

       RE: Post-Merge Alliances OR That's ... speedyforme 04-10-04 71

           RE: Post-Merge Alliances OR That's ... true 04-10-04 73

               RE: Post-Merge Alliances OR That's ... speedyforme 04-10-04 74

                   RE: Post-Merge Alliances OR That's ... true 04-10-04 75

                       RE: Post-Merge Alliances OR That's ... speedyforme 04-10-04 76

                           RE: Post-Merge Alliances OR That's ... true 04-10-04 77

                               That's not a knife in my back is it... SouperStar 04-11-04 80

                                   RE: That's not a knife in my back i... DRONES 04-12-04 81

RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... AMAZON 04-09-04 63

   Amber Brat2u 04-09-04 66

       RE: Amber VerucaSalt 04-10-04 70

           Rupert ThursdaySlug 04-10-04 72

               RE: Rupert calamityc 04-10-04 78

Tribal Council seating and Tribal D... speedstr24 04-12-04 82

   RE: Tribal Council seating and Trib... daisy01 04-12-04 83

   RE: Tribal Council seating and Trib... DRONES 04-12-04 84

       RE: Tribal Council seating and Trib... VerucaSalt 04-12-04 85

           RE: Tribal Council seating and Trib... Brownroach 04-12-04 86

               RE: Tribal Council seating and Trib... VerucaSalt 04-12-04 89

                   RE: Tribal Council seating and Trib... okaloosajohn 04-12-04 90

                       RE: Tribal Council seating and Trib... Brownroach 04-12-04 92

                           RE: Tribal Council seating and Trib... udg 04-12-04 94

               RE: Tribal Council seating and Trib... SouperStar 04-13-04 96

           RE: Tribal Council seating and Trib... emydi 04-12-04 87

               RE: Tribal Council seating and Trib... okaloosajohn 04-12-04 88

                   RE: Tribal Council seating and Trib... emydi 04-12-04 91

                       RE: Tribal Council seating and Trib... VerucaSalt 04-12-04 93

               RE: Tribal Council seating and Trib... DRONES 04-13-04 95

                   RE: Tribal Council seating and Trib... ManateeBob 04-13-04 97

                       RE: Tribal Council seating and Trib... DRONES 04-13-04 98

After Episode 11, Down to F7 Flowerpower 04-16-04 99

   RE: After Episode 11, Down to F7 pmspml5 04-16-04 100

   RE: After Episode 11, Down to F7 SurvivorMack 04-16-04 101

       RE: After Episode 11, Down to F7 Brownroach 04-16-04 104

           RE: After Episode 11, Down to F7 SurvivorMack 04-16-04 105

   RE: After Episode 11, Down to F7 ManateeBob 04-16-04 102

   RE: After Episode 11, Down to F7 Kokoro 04-16-04 103

       RE: After Episode 11, Down to F7 VerucaSalt 04-16-04 106

           RE: After Episode 11, Down to F7 SurvivorMack 04-16-04 107

   RE: After Episode 11, Down to F7 memacmur 04-16-04 108

RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... ADKer 04-16-04 109

   RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... VerucaSalt 04-19-04 110

       RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... DRONES 04-20-04 111

           RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... VerucaSalt 04-20-04 112

               RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... Flowerpower 04-20-04 113

                   RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... DRONES 04-21-04 114

The Pecking Order Brat2u 04-23-04 115

   RE: The Pecking Order Loquatrix 04-23-04 117

       RE: The Pecking Order ksuzy 04-23-04 120

           RE: The Pecking Order Loquatrix 04-24-04 121

Amber votes for Tom? Jims02 04-23-04 116

   RE: Amber votes for Tom? Loquatrix 04-23-04 118

       RE: Amber votes for Tom? Brownroach 04-23-04 119

           irony? RyrieRae 04-24-04 122

RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... DRONES 04-26-04 123

   RE: After The Twist - The Players, ... VerucaSalt 04-26-04 124

       VS...Is it getting time to start an... DRONES 04-27-04 125

           RE: VS...Is it getting time to star... VerucaSalt 04-27-04 126

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Messages in this topic

bdemoney 745 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
04-02-04, 04:35 PM (EST)

1. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

What a great summary Veruca! Thanks for taking the time to write down all your thoughts. There's only one main item that I disagree with you about and that is SA.
I think Rob will target either Kathy or Lex before SA due to the fact that he will not see her as a big immunity threat. He does not seem to care (from the vid caps) that he made a promise to Lex so I do not see why he would honor his word to him next episode to just to screw him over the following one.
I think he will see Lex as a big immunity threat and unless Lex does win immunity next week I think he will be in big trouble of being voted off. Just my take on things...

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Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-02-04, 04:46 PM (EST)

4. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

I think Rob will worry about Lex and Tom hooking up. Rob wants to be in control and 2 men getting friendly and plotting would make Rob nervous. He is going to want to keep them from forming a bond to take out Rob.

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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-02-04, 05:07 PM (EST)

5. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

LAST EDITED ON 04-02-04 AT 05:08 PM (EST)
I also think once the tribes merge and Rob realizes he has alliances or deals with every single person except Shii Ann, he's going to get very nervous and want to start cutting some of those people loose. I don't think he'll be too concerned with Shii Ann right away, but he'll get rid of those close to her.

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CRyanShort 42 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
04-02-04, 04:38 PM (EST)

2. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

LAST EDITED ON 04-02-04 AT 04:39 PM (EST)
Great analysis, Veruca!
I'm glad the Kathy "Godfather" comment jumped out at you, too, as I think it really puts Rob's immense and widespread power into perspective. You hit the nail right on the head: Kathy knows Rob's power, yet she still submits to him.
In fact, I think that may be the story for most of these Survivors, that regardless of how much they see Rob as a threat, they won't do anything about it.
I also agree that Shii Ann is in the worst position, but I think that may be the exact same reason she hangs around a little longer than Kathy or Lex. She's abrasive and weak, and she can be seen more as a liability than as a rock. I'd go so far as to say she will be to the Chapera tribe as Jerri was to the Mogo Mogo tribe: a non-threat. For that reason, ultra strong Lex who won lots of challenge in Africa and super smart Kathy may be the first victims of the Robfather, which I think is especially true after watching CBS.com's preview for next week's episode.

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memacmur 359 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host"
04-02-04, 04:39 PM (EST)

3. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

Now that VS has done all the big thinking, I'll throw my 2 cents in on the players editting. I agree with VS in that I feel this weeks episode was more of a set-up than any previous episode. the focus wasn't on Jerri's boot, but rather both tribe's preparations for the real merge...
Rawb - Still interested to see where they're going. As pointed out by VS, they've officially begun the Robfather editting job that we saw leading up to his demise in the Marquesas. The thing is, by waiting so long, one can't help but wonder if this time it's being set up for a final 4 showdown...
Amber - We saw her get 'screwed', but the editting remained upbeat (or at least she sure appeared happy for someone who should have been ousted). I think she definitely received a players edit, and still think she's a lock for the final 4 - especially now that she has 'allies' with both tribes.
Tom - Gosh darn it if the big ol' lug isn't doing the same thing as last week. Although we received some insight into the fact that he and Rupert are the workers. Of course, by leaving the other 3 alone, they are also in the minority on their tribe. Wishful thinking on my part has Tom and Rupert teaming with the old Mogos to get rid of Romber and Alicia, but I'm not sure what Tom has planned...
Alicia - Another relatively quiet week. I half expect her to get the boot next week, just as she finally thinks she has an alliance with Rawb. Then again, any outbursts she may have had have yet to be shown, so she may be around for a bit yet while the old Mogos get drawn and quartered.
Rupert - We did see him actually playing survivor (as opposed to being a survivor in the midst of a game) this week. I just hope he listened to his conversation with SA. His time could be limited if he doesn't attack back (and soon). I think him being shown as an outsider to Rawb and his harem may indicate that his days are numbered.
Jenna - We saw her cringe when told the challenge would involve knowing about previous Survivors. Other than that, all we really saw was a bunch of grinning and some old footage of Sean voting for her. So far UTR that I think she's still a finalist.
Lex - We know he has a deal with the Mafia. And we all know how much you can trust the mafia. Either his scheming will pay of gloriously, or he will find himself swimming with the fishes in short order.
Kathy - She clearly seems to have the better relationship with Amber amongst the devious 3. She may be the last of the Mogos to be targetted, barring Rawb seeing her as more of an immunity threat than Shii Ann...
Shii Ann - Alive only because of her alliance is the impression I get. Maybe a set-up for her doing something, or maybe a legitimate edit of her playing strategy. I think there is a chance something will come of her discussion with Rupert, if not, her only hope is her ineptitude in challenges (may lead to a Sandra-esque path of letting others fight while you watch).
With 2 immunities being given out and a merged tribe, I'm most unsure about the next boot. Of course, I'm sure by the end of the weekend (with a little help from the resident spoilers) I'll know who's going...
MEmacmur

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RyrieRae 416 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star"
04-02-04, 05:21 PM (EST)

6. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

I agree with everything said. It has been stated so well, that it's hard to add anything... but here goes nothin'
I didn't see this mentioned in this thread and it deserves to be mentioned. They may a big deal about editing in Amber's comments at the end of the show (especially TC) that she has worked really hard, yadayadayada. This is definetly going to be used in the future... either to precede her fall, or as part of her final 2 speech. I choose the latter.
Another beautiful thing for Amber is that the majority of responsibility for the Rob/Amber alliance is falling on Rob's shoulders. Therefore, he would be the first target to go. Or, suppose he makes it to F2 w/ Amber, he will have been the one that did all the backstabbing while she just road his coattails. (hey, worked for Sandra)

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KeithFan 7422 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-03-04, 11:40 PM (EST)

28. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

or he will find himself swimming with the fishes in short order
Can we start calling him "Luca" Lex?

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tommiettop 60 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"
04-02-04, 05:36 PM (EST)

7. "Why double immunity?"

I'm wondering why MB would have two players getting immunity.
My guess is that he wants his strong players around at the end - viewers don't like to see the weak, uninteresting utr players getting all the rewards.
So if two players have immunity, it's probably two of the stronger players. So it's more difficult for the weak ones to band together to pick off the strong ones one by one.
Just a thought -

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Loquatrix 640 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
04-02-04, 06:29 PM (EST)

13. "RE: Why double immunity?"

Totally agreed, Tommie. Do we know whether the double immunity twist is going to persist for several weeks, or is it just a one-off?
I hope the former.

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KeithFan 7422 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-03-04, 11:42 PM (EST)

29. "RE: Why double immunity?"

I hope it lasts.
Do you think it will be the 1st and 2nd place in the IC? Perhaps it would be more interesting if the winner gets to grant the other necklace to someone.
Just wondering.

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Loquatrix 640 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
04-04-04, 03:56 PM (EST)

39. "RE: Why double immunity?"

I think it will make for good TV whichever way they do it, KeithFan.
If immunity goes to the winner and the first runner-up in any given challenge, then I would be happy and satisfied that the two people who were the best on the day won the immunity. I would feel that they had both deserved their immunity for that night. Plus, it will make the challenges that much more competitive and fun to watch as there is a reason to battle for second place now too.
If immunity goes to the winner and the "guest" of his/her choice, then we will see alliances being exposed and strategies being revealed (in the sense that the immunity winner might give the second immunity to someone he doesn't particularly like or want to keep around, just to ensure that someone he wants to get rid of NOW is more likely to attract the votes). This, too, would also make for fun viewing.
I find myself tending toward the former possibility, though, just because it's more of a twist than the concept of one competitor awarding immunity to another. In the past, it has been a question of sacrificing immunity and thus only one person being immune -- but creates a good opportunity for a twist. The All Stars might be expecting the usual one-person-immune at TC, and already planning strategy around it -- whereas they would not be expecting any scenario in which two people are immune each time.

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speedyforme 228 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
04-04-04, 04:36 PM (EST)

40. "RE: Why double immunity?"

i think i disagree on the last point, there is a pic where Jeff holds both necklaces in broad daylight near the beach...i dont think double immunity is a surprise at TC...

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Loquatrix 640 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
04-04-04, 04:51 PM (EST)

41. "RE: Why double immunity?"

I apologize if I was unclear. I didn't mean Jeff would drop the immunity bomb on them at Tribal Council when I referred to the All-Stars not expecting it.
I just meant that they wouldn't be expecting this twist as part of the game in general and that it would be a surprise to them at the point at which it was introduced to them -- which will presumably be at the first individual immunity challenge.

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speedyforme 228 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
04-04-04, 05:01 PM (EST)

42. "RE: Why double immunity?"

oh ok

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mtopaz 2167 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Roller Coaster Inaugurator"
04-02-04, 05:46 PM (EST)

8. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

Lex choosing Rob for his "power lunch" revealing how he was so ready for merger and individual this, individual that (unfortunately Lex has been playing this game mostly as an individual this whole time instead of really looking at this as keeping a strong tribe going) Lex's desperation is showing along with his banking on the fact that Tom will be there for him come merger. The irony would be that Lex will be the victim of exactly what he has "dished" through the season. "This is business" His thoughts to Ethan about friendship being separate may be exactly what he faces as well.
I agree. I think the first time Lex does not win II once the tribes merge, Rob will "decide" he needs to go, give the command to his troops, and Lex will receive the same treatment as he gave to Ethan and Colby - "sorry but it's just business." The only difference is that it's unlikely Rob (or Tom) will have a heart-to-heart with Lex before he's voted off.

Sig pic by the fabulous JSlice!

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emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-04-04, 10:42 AM (EST)

34. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

I love me some irony
Rob: You guys didn't really believe that did ya?
VO: ... a promises means nothing.
Lex: It's about getting a knife in the back.
Rob: You wanna put our friendship on the line, I will.
Kathy: It's brutal.
It's been all business business with Lex while he is the one deciding but when he is the one on the chopping block he talks about a knife in the back and he must have said something to Rob about their friendship for Rob to say he'll put their friendship on the line.
So I believe that Lex is at the end of his business v. friendship story arc in this episode, or the next, if he wins immunity.
EMYDI

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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-02-04, 06:03 PM (EST)

9. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

A course has now been set that really set the turning point to this game in my opinion. Almost like that part in the movie where you see that "in your face" change of direction
Yes, absolutely. I think this was best illustrated by Rob and Amber. Rob as you observe is letting his emotions cloud his judgment now, and spent the whole episode moping about his lost Amber. Amber, on the other hand, shook herself off and adapted to the new situation at hand. While she may have seemed like no more than Rob's decorative ally before, now she's showing she's prepared to play a very clear-eyed game. Amber thrived much better without Rob than he did without her.

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speedyforme 228 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
04-02-04, 06:10 PM (EST)

11. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

im not so sure i can believe in that because AMBER was technically all alone in another tribe, if ROB was on the other tribe and AMBER was safe with her old tribemates...im sure AMBER would be the miserable one instead...

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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-02-04, 06:36 PM (EST)

14. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

Well I'm not speculating on what might have happened were the situation reversed; it's a question of what did happen and how it was handled.
But in any case I doubt Rob could have convinced Lex, Kathy and Shii Ann to vote off Jerri instead of himself...

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sondral 17 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson"
04-03-04, 08:55 PM (EST)

25. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

I don't think I agree with that. I think Rob would have been able to schmooze his way into their camp, still getting rid of Jerry (Hey, I'm the Robfadduh over there, they will do what I say, if you keep me, I'll make sure you stick around, blah blah blah.....)

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Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-02-04, 07:47 PM (EST)

16. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

>im not so sure i can
>believe in that because AMBER
>was technically all alone in
>another tribe, if ROB was
>on the other tribe and
>AMBER was safe with her
>old tribemates...im sure AMBER would
>be the miserable one instead...
>
I agree. Amber had to save herself when her new tribe lost. She didn't have the time to sit and mope. Rob was never in jeopardy for himself. So he had the time to mope and feel helpless. But he was still working on ways to save Amber on the other tribe.

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idiotcowboy 1135 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest"
04-02-04, 06:04 PM (EST)

10. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

My thoughts:
Jerri was not necessarily a bad boot at this point by the MM's because they really have no better options right now. This was not necessary in hindsight, and I think it is more than a guess that had MM booted Jerri instead of Colby their options would be much better at this point (ie they likely would have won the log roll RC, and Jerri would not of lost them the IC). Lex and Kathy's plan was flawed from the get go and I expect it will cost them sooner rather than later.
Lex, his personality both inside and outside the game is that of a myopic shmoozer. He wants to be everyones friend and expects them to be that way in return, yet ultimately its all about him. He has shown he has no issue with voting out his buddies, and I expect that will be how he himself is voted out eventually as well (ie by a "friend" probably Tom or Kathy). From his past actions though no one should trust him, and the seeds of this have already been planted with his "closest" ally Kathy. Ultimately though his only shot now is winning II's, and all of them. When he looses he's gone.
Kathy, learned absolutely nothing from S4. She is the same emotional and paranoid person that she was before only this time she doesnt have the numbers to overthrow the king. She complains about the lack of "bonding" on the MM tribe, yet she did not or was unable to change that. She bitches about her tribe loosing everything yet she takes no responsibility in that fact that her action are directly responsible for that condition. She states that she wanted others to come to her, yet when they did not she did not take the initiative to go to them instead. Rather than breaking down the bounderies she allowed them to build to the point that could not be traversed, and despite what she has said I think she believed that was a good strategy. Ultimately it was a horrible strategic blunder although it might through luck be salvaged in the end, but I doubt it.
Shii Ann, should not be playing the game. She is not an ALL-STAR, and she has done nothing and contributed little. She lets Lex and Kathy think for her. She doesnt recognize her own vunerability in the 3-way alliance. She will likely go further than Lex and probably Kathy though since she is so inept at all challenges and so incompetent at changing her fortunes through alliance, which makes her a much lesser threat.
Amber, is now in great shape. With the merger set to take place and her protector Rob in front of her on the chopping block she should be able to coast for a while even in the unlikely scenario in which King Rob is dethrowned. She has been painted as well liked by her tribe (although not as favorably by the Chappera evictees, an indication she makes it further than they think she should). She has shown increasing signs of being capable of thinking for herself, and amazingly surviving what should have been certain demise (althought that might have been as much due to Rob's empty promises). The only troubling aspect for her though is her story has spiked significantly, but I expect that has more to do with the romantic relationship and the unexpected vote off than anything else. I expect she will disappear into the woodwork again as the other storylines play themselves out.
Alicia, is the odd person out at (former) Chappera. She is abrasive and moody and insists on raising conflict when there should be none. Her physique makes her a threat despite the fact that it has never been an asset to her in the challenges. Being the last person that the king approaches is never a good sign for her long term survival, but I dont think she is capable of realizing her position. She would make a great swing target for the MM's (especially had the MM's removed Amber last night), but I expect her attitude and disposition will preclude her from being receptive to that. Ulimately Rob will betray her, because he is threatened by her, and the others will go along because she has not built the needed inroads with them to prevent that from happening.
Rupert, has not been the star this season. He has been shown many times as rather mean and insensitive to others, especially when they have the nerve to do something he feels is "his" domain (ie fishing). At merge time he should have been the prime target for recruitment of the MM's. Together with Jenna and Jerri the MM/Sabogans could have cruised to the end game removing out the power Chapera's. That didnt happen though and Ruperts downfall will likely be the same as was last season. The inability to see when to jump ship until it's too late to do anything about it.
Jenna, is in a better position than she deserves. She lead Saboga to its early demise through questionable decisions and poor challenge performance. Somehow though she has managed to recover from that and make inroads to both the Chapera and MM tribes. She's not an II threat like Rupert, but is a valuable vote and may once again find herself in a "power" broker role before the end.
Rob, is the King. The problem he has is EVERYONE knows it. The advantage he has is he has repeatedly shown that he will be a threat in II challenges (as long as they dont involve a puzzle). If he is to fail I expect it will be in relation to Amber. At some point the others will determine that one of them will have to go. If he can somehow control or intimidate the others long enough though it may be enough for him to run the table on II's and make it to the end.
Tom, is the ultimate power player. Everyone thinks he's their ace in the hole. Good ole Tom, non threatening Tom, rock solid Tom is on my side. He's not of course. He's on his own side, and I expect it will serve him well to the end. In fact I think he more than anyone else is getting the winner edit. IMO its Tom's game to loose, and I expect before he's done he will have taken down both Lex and Rob on his way to the final check.
.02
-ICB

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SouperStar 156 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
04-02-04, 06:20 PM (EST)

12. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

>Lex ... wants to be everyones friend and expects them to
>be that way in return, yet ultimately its all about him. He has shown
>he has no issue with voting out his buddies, and I expect that will be how he himself is voted
>out eventually as well (ie by a "friend" probably Tom or Kathy). From his
>past actions though no one should trust him, and the seeds of this have already
>been planted with his "closest" ally Kathy. Ultimately though his only shot now is
>winning II's, and all of them. When he looses he's gone.
>
How different would we look at ChappyMogo if the 4 members were Lex, Colby, Rich and Ethan? It's doubtful they'd have lost all the IC's, but that gang of 4 would be scary.

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Loquatrix 640 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
04-02-04, 06:54 PM (EST)

15. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

Amber, is now in great shape. With the merger set to take place and her protector Rob in front of her on the chopping block she should be able to coast for a while even in the unlikely scenario in which King Rob is dethrowned.
She really is in great shape. Rob has shown everyone his Achilles heel. I was truly surprised that he said anything to anybody on Former Mogo Mogo simply on the basis that alliances revealed never succeed. It was a hugely risky strategy and Rob has to know that his immediate concern right now is that it'll come around and bite him in the butt the first time he doesn't win immunity.
I wonder if Amber will be annoyed with him for assuming she couldn't fend for herself. She doesn't know, at this point, that Rob made an overarching gesture on her behalf. She thinks she saved her own skin by making deals on her own. I'd be pretty pissed if I were her, when I found out that Rob had exposed my long-term final 2 alliance as blatantly as he did. Surely, surely one of them has to go soon.
And like ICB says, the menacing person in the duo is still Rob. Getting rid of him would kill the monster altogether and blow the game wide open again. I can't help but think Lex, Kathy and Shii have lost their last chance by agreeing to keep Amber, though. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush -- they should have been thinking about going into the merge 5-4 which is a workable scenario, rather than 6-3 with the only hope being mercy from Rob. Eejits, all three of them.

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Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-02-04, 09:38 PM (EST)

17. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

I do think the one that is sitting in the position of controlling the game is Big Tom. He has many options among the Chappy's, as well as options within the Mogo's. He'll be the one to decide who will be the next to go. Theorhetically, he could go with Lex and the Mogo's, bring along Rupert, and take care of the rest of the Chappy's. I highly doubt this will happen
As for speculation as to what happens next week, with a water challenge, I'm betting on a Rupert and Robfadda win....therefore, IMO it will be curtains for one of the Mogo's. Kathy, if Robfadda honors his word to Lex.

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DRONES 615 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
04-03-04, 06:13 AM (EST)

18. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

Once again VS, an excellent job.
A strong alliance with one other player is almost a requirement for getting to the final 2. Richard-Rudy, Tina-Colby, Ethan-Mama Kim, Brian-Clay, Jenna-Hiedi etc. These alliances for the most part were hidden in plain site. The alliance was so obvious that MB would often play up a conflicting relatlionship to confuse the viewing audiance. So far I see Rob-Amber, Lex-KO and then ?.
Amber was not happy but Rob was downright depressed. We saw the reaction of the tribe Amber was on, but not Rob's. Did they notice his lack of participation? I wanted to know what they were thinking.
Lex and his compulsion to tell someone they are getting voted out is not going over all the well. Watching him strategize is almost painful at times. He's a gambler who likes to take big risks. It's like playing black jack and betting everything you have on one hand and then after you win, doing it again and again. Eventually you lose because the house always wins.
Shi-Ann understands the game and the players. Her problem is that she lacks the ability to execute.
Jenna has been slipping into the background the last couple of episodes. Her game is really being hidden.
Rupert is playing the same game as before.
Tom has not been shown all that much except as a clown.
KO is following Lex down the path of destruction.
RobM is following the RobC style of play and it is going to bite him in the arse big time. To many alliances spell big time trouble.
Rob's weakness is Amber. The real question is will someone try to exploit that at some point....
DRONES

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KObrien_fan 8360 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-03-04, 07:02 AM (EST)

19. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

I posted this on another thread but it belongs here just as much:
When I first watched the previews for next week and saw Rob make a deal with Alicia, right after that you see his confessional, then bang back at camp and he is now talking to someone "I'm sorry that you feel that way" speech. Just before he started talking I saw two people sitting on the bench, then the close up of Rob.
To me it is clear that the two people he is talking to is Rupert and Jenna. Remember the foursome promised to these guys from Rob and Amber? Rupert is already feeling like Rob doesn't like him, then in his chat with Shii Ann it is reinforced that Rob is a dangerous immunity threat (and if Shii can figure that out, it must be obvious to all) and now Rupert may over hear the alliance promise made to Alicia.
Jenna and Rupert confront Rob about the "new deal" with Alicia and let him know that they feel they can't trust him anymore, that they are disgruntled with their original deal. To which Rob states "I'm sorry that you feel that way"...
With the merge coming it should be very interesting. Through editing we have seen Rupert picked on by Rob, Jenna has been UTR but to me it appears she is biding her time until it is time to strike, Tom is getting closer to Rupert, Alicia has always been an outsider to Chapera. Now you merge and bring in a hungry three of Lex, Shii, and Kathy (who may get wind of the stab in the back that Rob intends) and you get some interesting combos and this game is far from over.
I think Rob has made himself most vulnerable. Unlike Brian in S5 who hid his lies and alliance deals with everyone, Rob is about to be exposed for the fraud he is. Especially since Amber has also started making her own deals.

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
04-03-04, 07:58 AM (EST)

20. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

Wow!! Great thoughts everyone!!
I agree 100% that in Survivor play, SA will "slide" through the next boot. When I meant that SA is the next in danger, in typical speak, she would be if only because she really is odd man out of anything. She has Kathy really and that is all coming into a merger and not so much anymore b/c Kathy, in her emotional hopes of becoming "one with Rob and his gang" would cut SA off the minute she has to. Lex has shown us his obvious disregard for anyone but himself and really SA is a non entity here.
With that Shii Ann is safer in the sense that she IS a non entity and has not directly "screwed" anyone unlike in Thailand where her tribe axed her because of her immediate disloyalty the minute Clay, et al. tried to recruit her. So I agree with those who stated that SA will get a "pass" in the sense that there seems to be some major upheaveal coming around the pike and a bigger fish to fry first. But I really sense a tone also that SA isn't very well liked. She is dismissed half the time by her own tribe and I don't see people like Tom, Rob, Alicia really warming up to her type of personality. She has said the wrong thing at the wrong time as well. Her TC talk with "trust is earned" which is directly at Amber is a perfect example. Her foot will go into her mouth and she will be booted probably out of sheer annoyance.
In a great Survivor game world, this would be the time for the underdogs to rally and get rid of the one person who EVERYONE knows is the most dangerous. This is what amazes me. There is not one person out there who has not acknowledged Rob's power yet they are allowing it. I really struggle with this considering these people were picked (among other reasons) as the best of their seasons. I feel like I am watching a cult leader with glassy eyed people walking to their death sentence.
With that said, Rob will find himself in the ultimate position of power but with great power comes difficult choices and any of these people (sans SA) will be thinking they were betrayed. Rob's best bet is to immediately go back on his word to the newest members of his contigency because the investment has been as long. But he needs to tread very carefully now because aside from Amber, no one else there has an emotional investment with him (long term friendships outside the game, etc.) Right now if Rob chooses either Kathy, Lex, or SA over one of his old Chapera's I would think that would give the Chapera's a wake up call. If Rob axes a former MM (sans SA because frankly I don't think Kathy or Lex would be astute enough to realize this is a direct threat on them and would just think Rob is honoring his promise - get me a gun now) then Lex or Kathy have to know they are history. Unfortunately it would be a little late for them to rally much like we have seen in the past where one vulnerable member does their scrambling and while it looks great for us viewers, their time is done.
Will a MogoMogo'ing ensue? (I still consider them MM ) I would probably suggest it may start but then we all know how someone's big mouth may end up hurting them and immunity is always a possibility.
With this dual immunity around the pike, I think that if there is any suggestion of taking Rob out next week it will be all for nothing since he is a true challenge threat.
And as long as people like Tom, Jenna, Rupert can stay low they will be completely overlooked in the battle right now. I'd say Lex is in more danger than Kathy right now simply because Kathy has made friends with the other tribe, she is a warmer personality and Amber had a direct link to her in bargaining. Although Rob spoke directly to Lex, it seems clear that Amber has a lot of power with Rob and the decision as to who goes may come down to what Amber suggests to Rob.

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Loquatrix 640 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
04-03-04, 12:18 PM (EST)

21. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

During our long period of speculation over last week's episode, we conjectured that Rob may attempt to throw the immunity challenge to save Amber. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't notice him actually putting that into practice -- in fact, I thought I saw him actively contribute what appeared to be the last "first boot" name his tribe needed, and thus pull out the win. Would you say that his natural competitiveness overruled his desire to save Amber? Or perhaps he had simply realized that a trivia challenge was unthrowable, so he gave up thinking about it? Trying to get at his mindset here.
Also, here's another quick question. When Rob said in last week's previews, "The next move I'm going to make will have serious consequences," was he referring to a plan to throw the upcoming challenge, which he then didn't/couldn't go through with?

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
04-03-04, 12:47 PM (EST)

22. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

I'm wondering if that wasn't Rob's thought process as you stated but then seeing what the challenge was realized it was fruitless. Let's face it, if it was to be a physical challenge, any lack of trying on Rob's part may have cost them immunity since he is a key player in challenges. I think at that point he decided to eyeball Lex, get his attention and reinforce to Lex to protect her.
Now I do recall there being mention that Lex and Rob were friends somewhere which may infer some pre-planning prior to the show? I can't recall and really has no place in story telling However, for the sake of well roundness, there may have been not much for Rob to even have to say to Lex to make sure Lex had his and therefore Amber's back?
We also don't know how much was discussed between Rob/Lex during their conversation session in the sense of looking out for each other. The fact that Rob focused very intently on Lex immediately after the challenge suggests the conversation they may have had prior to that challenge was almost a continuation.
I do think Rob entertained the idea but realistically saw it was practically impossible to carry it through.

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MDSkinner 716 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
04-03-04, 03:22 PM (EST)

23. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

>>Also, here's another quick question. When Rob said in last
>>week's previews, "The next move I'm going to make will have
>>serious consequences," was he referring to a plan to throw
>>the upcoming challenge, which he then didn't/couldn't go
>>through with?
I just wanted to throw my opinion in on this question. I believe that when he was making this statement that he was not just talking about throwing the challenge, but about what he would do if his team won the challenge. So I think he had planned all along to pull Lex to the side (if they won anyway) and make that offer to him, and I think he was concerned for what it might do to him in the long run. I think he had probably decided going in that it was certainly possible that he would not be able to throw the challenge, so why not have something prepared if he could not throw it.

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sondral 17 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson"
04-03-04, 09:06 PM (EST)

26. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

"So I think he had planned all along to pull Lex to the side (if they won anyway) and make that offer to him, and I think he was concerned for what it might do to him in the long run."
I think you're giving Rob more credit than he's due, I don't think he would think that far ahead. I believe that the statement he made regarding "next move...seriouse consequences" was made before he knew what the IC was going to be. He expected it to be physical, and he planned on throwing it to save Amber. Question is, who would he have Godfadduhd out? My guess is Alicia or Rupert.

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MDSkinner 716 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
04-03-04, 09:28 PM (EST)

27. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

That is quite possibly true sandral, the only thing that made me think this is that I would not expect that they would have a tremendous amount of time after the challenge to come up with his little "Take care of her and I will take care of you" thing. So, it is possible that I am giving him too much credit for that foresight, but he was certainly quick on his feet if that were not the case.
As to who would he have Godfadduhd out, I would agree Alicia or Rupert seem like the obvious choices. Though, I really believe that he is likely to get rid of about any of them now outside of Amber.

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I_AM_HE 6123 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-03-04, 08:21 PM (EST)

24. ""next move" and "serious consequences""

Rob made no move. It shows him to be completely toothless. L/K/S are so worried about the "Wrath of God" that, as others have said, they forget that getting Rob mad is EXACTLY what they want. He is not a smart player and his wild obnoxiousness will be his downfall.
I agree with whoever said that SA is in the most danger alliance wise, but she could end up being the Kathy of this season, ironically (although even if she can trip Rob up, I don't really see her surviving him by much). If she's planted the seeds of doubt about Rob in Rupert's head, Rupert may be able to influence Jenna and Tom who may be able to pull Alicia. I don't see it happening NEXT episode, but after Lex's boot, I could see Shii tipping the scales and Rob getting the axe very soon after. At the very least, I should hope T/Al/Ru/J are able to see that Rob will stab them in the back at F6. Remember Shii's words shortly after the dissolve? "I'm in a tribe full of power players" - with an implicit "I'm not one of them"...Shii Ann may actually become the power player, though it may not be until after she is gone.
My guess for Final 4 is still Jenna, Tom, Amber and Alicia, in some order (my guess is Amber is being set up for a F2 loss to either Jenna or Tom...Rob may get the girl, but he won't be able to get the million OR help HER win it)

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DRONES 615 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
04-04-04, 05:30 AM (EST)

30. "RE: "next move" and "serious consequences""

The old Chapey's, sans Amber, have only been to one TC where they choose the easy target of RobC. Tribal councils have a way of making camp tense and forcing people to play or go home. Chapey has been the happy tribe because they have avoided TC. Now Chapey has to start playing the game and Jenna, Alicia and 'ole Tom have to make their move one way or another. SA, Lex and Kathy have been in the dirt for awhile and are already dirty and they will bring the game to the merged tribe. One way or another happy chapey is no more.
I have to disagree with you about Rupert. He lacks the where with all to rally votes, or to see the big picture for that matter.
I know this has been mentioned before but I'm not sure of it's accuracy, but haven't all the previous winners never recieved a vote against them in TC?

DRONES

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Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-04-04, 08:32 AM (EST)

31. "RE: "next move" and "serious consequences""

LAST EDITED ON 04-04-04 AT 08:39 AM (EST)
Tribal councils have a way of making camp tense and forcing people to play or go home. Chapey has been the happy tribe because they have avoided TC.
Yes, and let's give Chappy it's due. They were thrown together, as all of the other tribes were, yet initially had some clashing of ideas,etc., yet they overcame these adversities to unite and form a very cohesive, unified team. They became more confident and unified with each immunity win. They have been committed and kept their eye on the prize, they have earned their majority status. The other tribes all had the same conditions, but for whatever reasons, mostly for putting themselves before the team...which IMO you just can't do until the merge of all tribes and the individual competitions start. The other teams really just self destructed.
But, as you've suggested Drones, now is when it's going to get really good. Now, it will be every Chappy for himself(once the former Mogo's are all pagonged...which won't take too long). We'll definately see Robfadda playing defensively...perhaps Amber will get overshadowed by all of the attack focused on Boston Rob...but look out for her, she could be a snake in the grass. I think Jenna has gotten in the favor of Rob, and she's also in Rupert's favor, so she's in a good position. I think perhaps Jenna has tried to really bond with Amber, becoming close to her, has made Rob be more accepting of her. This will indeed lead to her longevity...she is playing subservient to the godparents, gains their favor and protection. She'll sit back quietly and wait for someone else to attack Romber, and then she'll outlast! I do think she is destined to F3 at least!
Tom, although committed to Romber earlier, is very weary of that twosome, and seems to be receptive to Rupert. But as a quieter member, keeping his cards to himself, he could possibly join up with another outside member of Chappy, Alicia. It will be extremely insightful if we see how Lex tries to sway Tom...he better start talking and persuading quickly though, he won't have much time before he's out....and what will Tom really think of Lex's boot? It will be facinating to see how they all try to keep their heads above water!

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Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-04-04, 09:29 AM (EST)

33. "RE: "next move" and "serious consequences""

>
>Tom, although committed to Romber earlier,
>is very weary of that
>twosome, and seems to be
>receptive to Rupert. But
>as a quieter member, keeping
>his cards to himself, he
>could possibly join up with
>another outside member of Chappy,
>Alicia. It will be extremely
>insightful if we see how
>Lex tries to sway Tom...he
>better start talking and persuading
>quickly though, he won't have
>much time before he's out....and
>what will Tom really think
>of Lex's boot? It will
>be facinating to see how
>they all try to keep
>their heads above water!
>

I think Tom feels that it is all about loyalty and his first loyalty in this game is to his Happy Chappy tribe. I don't think Lex will sway him unless Lex lasts a long time (which I don't see happening). But I don't think Lex can get Tom to cross over and vote against his tribemates right now. Tom would consider that wrong and he will not want to be seen as someone that can't be trusted. Tom voted out RobC with the comment that he had watched him play in the Amazon and he changed alliances too often and could not be trusted. So I think Tom will stay with Rob and Amber as long as he feels they are not crossing him. That is his first alliance of this game.

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DRONES 615 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
04-05-04, 03:57 AM (EST)

43. "RE: "next move" and "serious consequences""

I would contend that it's easy for a tribe to remain very united, so long as they avoid TC. Only one TC for Chapey thus far, yeah I'd be happy to if I'd only been to one TC. Lets see what happens now that they can no longer avoid going.
From previous Survivors we have learned that revealed alliances neve succeed. Is the first time that doesn't happen? I doubt it, because MB tends to edit the show the same way each time.
DRONES

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PepeLePew13 26134 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-05-04, 07:08 AM (EST)

44. "RE: "next move" and "serious consequences""

>From previous Survivors we have learned
>that revealed alliances neve succeed.
>Is the first time that
>doesn't happen? I doubt it,
>because MB tends to edit
>the show the same way
>each time.
Some alliances revealed DO succeed... it's just a matter of figuring out which one. Brian and Clay had an alliance that was shown, but then again we were also shown alliances between Brian and a few others (Helen, Ted, Jan).
More often, we do get to see alliances but they tend to either fail or carry to the final four where the leaders get split up and one goes to the end without the alliance mate(s) -- i.e. Lex and Tom getting booted 3rd and 4th while Ethan went all the way.

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DRONES 615 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
04-08-04, 08:06 AM (EST)

50. "RE: "next move" and "serious consequences""

LAST EDITED ON 04-08-04 AT 08:10 AM (EST)
LAST EDITED ON 04-08-04 AT 08:08 AM (EST)
I should clarify, and say that the OBVIOUS alliance nevers succeeds. The alliance that MB puts in our face is the one set up for failure.
Brain and Clay's alliance was put secondary in editing to the Brian and Ted alliance. The Rob and Amber alliance has been forced on us from the very first episode. RobC saying that they are going to do it, and RobM making a last minute deal with Lex.
This makes me wonder, do either of these two have a stronger alliance with someone else, that is being hidden in the background.
For the heck of it I put put together what I believe are the various alliances and how strong they are. If anyone has any discrepencies or additions please let me know.
These are the known alliances:
MM:
Lex-KO-SA--SA is a third wheel.
KO-SA--fall back for KO.
Lex-KO--primary alliance for MM.
KO has herself very covered in all scenerios, and could be a target if this is realized
Chap:
RobC-Amber--Strong dominant alliance.
RobC-Tom--Rob's fall back.
Amber-JennaL--Amber's fall back(this is my most questionable alliance as there isn't any hard of evidence to prove it's excistnence).
RobC-Amber-Tom--The secondary alliance(same as above.)
RobC-Amber-JennaL-Rupert--Rob and Amber fall back.
Rob and Amber are not only covered together, but individually. Rob having himself spread out the most.
Cross Tribal Allaince:
RobC-Lex--An alliance of desperation for Rob to keep Amber in the game.
Amber-KO--desperation alliance for Amber, to save herself.
Not sure of the extent of either of these alliances but they have been revealed.
What this does, is prove that these people are ALL putting a lot of TRUST in one another. Veruca Salt is definately on to something here with the trust issue.
I'm hoping after tonights episode I'll be able to fit the pieces together a little bit better.

DRONES

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Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-04-04, 09:22 AM (EST)

32. "RE: "next move" and "serious consequences""

>
>I have to disagree with you
>about Rupert. He lacks the
>where with all to rally
>votes, or to see the
>big picture for that matter.
>
I think Rupert plays too much with emotion. He is too interested in impressing the others with his fishing and being liked. He is willing to let others lead as long as he gets that "atta boy" from the popular people. Rupert is playing more for attention and approval than for the prize.

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Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-04-04, 12:31 PM (EST)

35. "RE: "next move" and "serious consequences""

Yes Loree, I agree that Rupert is playing more emotionally but I've questioned something about Rupert. Is it possible that he has been acting like a poor challenge participant on purpose, to throw others of the tract....do you think he actually learned something from S8? I know that before he was chosen for Survivor that he was a survivor fanatic, and I'd bet he was a major contributor to that trivia challenge win. Now that the merge is impending, perhaps we'll see the real challenge hog step up and Rupert becomes a real contender to outlast. It just seems he is really lacking in the challenges so far in A$$.

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speedyforme 228 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
04-04-04, 12:41 PM (EST)

36. "RE: "next move" and "serious consequences""

i agree to a certain extent...although some can argue against it...
SHELTER - duh, his stupid idea, he obviously didnt do it on purpose
CAPTURE TEH FLAG - balancing act, he doesnt have it, same with the barrol roll challenge
ROWING - depends, the raft they built was too slow...but they did win with the puzzle one
TRIVIA - i think he still has it...def
STOMPING - if i remember, he didnt get a chance to take his turn because MOGO MOGO already won
QUEST FOR FIRE - 1st challenge, id say it was all JENNA L's fault, LOL
Swimming - def strength, they beat MOGO MOGO and CHAPERA in the 1st reward challenge, logs
BLIND FOLDED PUZZLE - they won, he was amazing actually, throwing the puzzle over the branch and stuff....wow
ARCHERY - i dunno, everyone sucked so he has an excuse to suck...
so i dunno, it can be argued but i think in general...he is trying the best he can...but luck just isnt on his side this time in challenges...
maybe once individual challenges happen, he'll do better...

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Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-04-04, 02:06 PM (EST)

37. "RE: "next move" and "serious consequences""

In the Pearl Islands so many of the challenges were about strength and it was clear Rupert was the strongest. He is also good in the water (fishing). So he does excel at those. But he isn't that fast or nimble at other challenges. So I really think Rupert is trying his hardest. They just don't always have the challenges this time that Rupert can be superior at.

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emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-04-04, 02:44 PM (EST)

38. "RE: "next move" and "serious consequences""

I think he will start to excel in the challenges, esp. because the reward and immunity challenges this week are in the water and part of the immunity challenge is holding breath. Didn't Tom and Rob mention Rupert's ability to hold his breath while fishing.

EMYDI

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PepeLePew13 26134 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-05-04, 07:14 AM (EST)

45. "RE: "next move" and "serious consequences""

>I know this has been mentioned
>before but I'm not sure
>of it's accuracy, but haven't
>all the previous winners never
>recieved a vote against them
>in TC?
Jenna M. got a few votes against her in the Amazon.
Richard got three votes and was kept in the game by Dr. Sean's alphabet voting strategy that booted Jenna L.

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
04-05-04, 02:14 PM (EST)

46. "RE: "next move" and "serious consequences""

From the *looks* of things we have a lot of focus coming into play based on a secondary theme of All Stars (first being IMO, learning from past mistakes) which is revolved around trust, loyalty, bond vs. business.
We have heard this throughout the game even from Jeff. I could go on and on but this is how this season has been:
Nobody trusts anybody-Rob
Who are friends, who are not friends. - Alicia
All these people know each other. - Rupert
I don’t trust any of you sons of guns-Colby
You know Tina and Ethan are good buddies. The other two are good buddies. - Rudy
But I’ll keep my word no matter what to her. I trust her - Rob
This is business - Lex
I don’t know Rupert well enough to know if I can trust him - Jenna
I don’t want to fall prey to the same person who screwed me over in Australia - Jerri
So do you trust your gut, you trust loyalty? - Kathy
There was loyalty last time where you could get friendships and bondings, and right now it’s just pure, unadulterated playing the game - Kathy
....swinging from this loyalty to that loyalty - Kathy
.......tad bit of revenge - Jerri
.......and I know Lex, he then would never trust me-Kathy
Thought I was close to Lex - Ethan
I know how hard it is for you to see how they can be separate, I think it is better for my game if you go out tonight, nothing to do w/ friendship, this is business, have to play differently- Lex
Trust will become the single most valuable resource in this game and the most difficult to find. We'll see how it plays out. - Jeff
And I could go on and on and these are not from every episode. Obviously trust is a factor in every Survivor as you go along and get to know people and make alliances but they came in with certain notions of friendship, loyalty and trust from prior game play and outside relationships.
This Thursday we will see more of the same. Lex and Rob had an outside relationship. Now Lex will hold Rob to his bond and his word from last week. Kathy and Lex have a strong outside relationship that has been an unspoken agreement (I believe) with each other that may be tested shortly. Tom and Lex have an outside relationship which they will finally have a chance to test the waters on same as they merge.
I think it appears that bonds, trust and friendship are coming to a head in a big way. We see at the forefront an evil web that Rob has weaved with Amber, his tribe in various forms, and the other tribe. He HAS to be called to the mat for the loyalty, trust, bonding issue to blow wide open where all friendships, all alliances, all bonds may now be called into question.
Rob has Amber back and there is no question, she is first to him. All others are secondary and some third. She is the only one that I heard Rob say that HE trusts. Big message to me while he is running around saying "Trust me" to everyone else
Rob also has to, at this point, understand that the jury very shortly will remember everything and decide accordingly. Individual immunity aside, Rob conceivably can honor his word to Lex by protecting him this go around and argue that he did "return the favor"
Lex is probably in the most trouble right now being a potential challenge threat and an obvious take control person. Rob I believe spoke directly ONLY to Lex though about protecting Amber and returning the favor. Kathy's story of wanting to be a Chapera and having to make a difficult choice and swinging has been done and I truly wonder if the whole "trust, bond, word, etc. will be a highlight of this episode whereupon Rob returns the favor to Lex and thereafter all bets are off.

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ManateeBob 38 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
04-06-04, 01:28 PM (EST)

47. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

As I posted over in the "Kathy Boot" thread, I also think SA could be the boot this week along with my rationale for why it might come to pass.
Im just not "hard core" enough to incorporate all the surivor relationships outside the various eps into my analysis but if theres any credibility to some sort of Rob-Lex or Lex-Tom collusion maybe all Lex's moves in MM land arent as idiotic as they seem. It could all work out to the satisfaction of A-R-T-L-K per Amber's coversation with Kathy last week.
If this is the final five how the double immunity *if it continues* will be crucial.

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
04-07-04, 08:12 PM (EST)

48. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

For me, SA is simply a pawn in a game of chess. Moved forward, to the side, wherever, even advancing b/c she is no threat and basically useful at time and useless at others. Now this DOESN'T mean at a certain point she won't be used as a "let's just boot her now" boot mainly because the other choices could lead to trouble. So SA is not entirely out of the question BUT it also depends on the mentality of those in charge.
This week will be a true character insight into Rob, IMO. If he takes out Lex or Kathy, I would suspect that his power trip is very important to his own psyche. In other words, it won't matter to him if Amber gave Kathy the impression that she will advance, how "dare" Kathy or Lex question him or call him to the mat. For that alone, Rob will "show them" who is in charge. Due to the fact he did give Lex his "favor speech" Kathy would be second best. BUT........
in order to satisfy his "favor" and respect Amber's wishes (which will then show "us" that Amber is Rob's weakness) he will boot Shii Ann in order to satisfy both his promise and Amber's promise. In Rob's eyes right now, SA isn't even a necessary vote because he hasn't even considered her as a player, alliance partner or a threat.
My gut reaction to Rob is that his ego comes first. However, last week's amazing metamorphosis of his "character" when it came to Amber is intriguing which I still feel will ultimately be his downfall. I do NOT believe he is stupid enough to boot someone from his own tribe at this time; strategy wise, it is a bad move to make considering he really has no justification to do so.

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thetick 279 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
04-08-04, 05:30 AM (EST)

49. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

Rahb cracked a bit last week and showed a little weakness
..so, is he really going to want to keep the person he showed that weakness to (lex), around any longer than necessary? Rawb's whole self image is that of the tough guy. He can't wait to get rid of Lex and damn the consequences. Actually, if it makes Raab look like a heartless, backstabbing, a-hole - well that is just gravy.

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
04-08-04, 01:22 PM (EST)

51. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

Well if what I am now reading is true, then Rob clearly is just making sure he stays the alpha male and how dare Lex and Kathy call him to the mat.
Considering his Godfather aura, I would have at least expected him to honor the favor returned though it really shouldn't surprise anyone he wouldn't.
While I didn't particularly believe Lex would face the boot this week because of the favor returned, we can see that Lex's comments that the game had to separate business and friendship etc. has come back to haunt him.

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thetick 279 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
04-09-04, 03:56 AM (EST)

52. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

not only did I get Rawb's strategy right, I had a psychic gravy moment regarding Lex's final words...
smugness

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katethegreat 207 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
04-09-04, 05:34 AM (EST)

53. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

Right on analysis re Rob! I love reading your insights.
What I found interesting last night is that Amber suggested to Rob to take out Rupert and Jenna versus Kathy and Lex. This being immediately after sharing a 24-hour reward with them. Why them and not Shii Ann or Alicia?? Anyway, perhaps Amber just isn't smart enough to think of them.
In the beginning, you praised Jenna's game play. Although she has gotten pretty far, mostly it's the luck of being on Chapera, who never went to tribal council since she joined them, until tonight. Do you still think Jenna looks good? I thought she looked naive and complacent, assuming Amber and Rob are trustworthy, when they are not.

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Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-09-04, 08:45 AM (EST)

54. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

Okay, All I've heard is how Rob's the backstabber liar, well, I for one, think he's playing an incredibly smart game. I thought he handled the interchange with Lex and Kathy extremely well. He did'nt have to go to them at all, he was just like Lex here. Going to them prior to TC to tell them where they stood. He told them that he had tried to save Lex essentially, but that he could'nt go against the group....He made it sound as though the former Chappy's singled out Lex to go(sure makes good sense), and that although he had tried to sway them, he could not, and therefore was sticking with his group....."You want me to screw over people I've been aligned with since day one?"....Lex says, absolutely, I can't believe you would hold their alliance above ours?" Come on Lex, what a blind jacka$$. Rob did the exact same thing to Lex, as Lex has done to everyone, in particular to Ethan, his old, old friend, and to Jerri, his new friend. He had a temper tantrum, and handled the situation with alot less class then ALL of his targets put together.
The entire game his theme is that "it's not about friendships, it's all business"....Lex deserved this boot more than anything, and good riddance....he depended on his PRIOR friendship with Rob to prevail, over Rob's deals with everyone in Chappy from day one. He really expected Rob to commit suicide in the game for him? What a jerk. And frankly, Kathy made me sick to my stomach last night....wake up and assess the situation. She blindly trusted Lex to make all the wrong moves...get to the merge with strength by killing all your best/strongest players. Their greed was paramount, and blinded them to any rational decisions.
The smartest one of the former Mogo's was the Shii-devil, she jumped ship ASAP....what a loser though, it will prolong her time on the island one more episode beyond Kathy.
Rupert, once again loyal to his commitments. We'll see if he can plot and scheme to rid the group of Boston Rob once the pagonging is over. Wooing the girls to the reward challenge...back in the ladies favor, just where he likes to be!
Tom...exposed alot about him last night in addition to having the best quote of the show...it's like a calf sucking his mommy's titty.... What a character! But, I feel like he really considers his alliance with Rob to be his first priority alliance....hmmmm?...Not too smart imo. Note how hard he is trying in this game in the challenges....stealing Amber's underwater urn, then trying to steal the urn right out of Rob's hands! Ha!
Jenna, I'm sorry, I just don't like her....Although I think her game is desparate. She was bossy in the beginning, she has a big mouth, she is a bumbling idiot, spaz in the challenges, and now she's a serious kiss A$$....some people may say she's smart, I just look at her as extremely lucky. IMO, of all the people out there, she is the least deserving to win, but....she scares me. She just may outlast.

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
04-09-04, 10:17 AM (EST)

55. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

I will re post about the episode itself after I fleshed things out more because there was A LOT to digest last night wasn't there?
The compelling themes of repeat past mistakes and relationships/business is definitely becoming more and more prevalent
Kate you quoted
In the beginning, you praised Jenna's game play. Although she has gotten pretty far, mostly it's the luck of being on Chapera, who never went to tribal council since she joined them, until tonight. Do you still think Jenna looks good? I thought she looked naive and complacent, assuming Amber and Rob are trustworthy, when they are not.
(I'm going to get wordy here so forgive me )
I definitely praised Jenna's game play (good eye reading way back where that could haunt me ) There is definitely a lot of luck necessary out there in order to assist you. There could have been many different outcomes in each Survivor if not for a bit of luck in how you manage during a twist, etc. With that being said, there is also how you capitalize on that luck and the other player's own personalities and moves.
Note one thing though, Jenna could have easily been voted off at Saboga; she was coming off to the audience as somewhat brash and loud with her past winner spiel. At any point Rupert, Rudy and Jerri could have easily voted along with Tina and Ethan knowing that Tina and Ethan would be booted regardless because they are past winners. So for what it is worth, she had potential danger signals earlier.
What I have found during this game which bears repeating solely because I feel with All Stars this is a make/break situation for the players.... is that these people have their own agendas for playing right now in addition to any monetary compensation. Revenge, character change, redemption, pride what have you......... the underlying factors here are very relevant and I said it before and I will say it again, emotional game playing is as much a death warrant as being a prior winner here.
How this relates to my support of Jenna's longevity....... we have been slowly building to a huge crescendo here with battles about friendship, revenge, romance, ego, etc. The players that I truly believe that will remain unscathed are those that are not adding their own fuel. We mention UTR playing which is a very deceptive term. UTR has been given a bad rap over the seasons as being a complacement, riding coattails type of player which I don't always necessarily believe. Under the radar is someone who IS playing, is observing, is contributing to their longevity but not in an overt and outwardly way. Compare Jan to Vecepia for a broad difference on how UTR can be construed by different players.
Anyone taking a backseat right now and just allowing things to flesh out is being UTR at THIS moment and smart on their part. But I don't believe for one minute there is coattail riding by them. In fact, Tom has been called a huge coattail rider from what I am reading in different places and I disagree wholeheartedly; I find him playing extremely well; his real game playing will be when it is time for him to get rid of Rob and Amber so he can assure himself a final two spot; THAT is when I will know he has learned from past mistakes.
Rupert is being UTR (for him anyway) right now but his choice of Jenna and Amber was extremely strategic, not to mention his "friendship" with Tom (Rob's right arm) though Rupert, at the core, is just too emotionally based to win this game.
Shii Ann? See above about my thoughts on SA. As stated she is playing the game merely to be assistance, not to win. She is correct that she sits among power players. Her style cannot get her a win, it just won't IMO, BUT her lack of emotional investment as a whole does her well.
Jenna's agenda was satisfied and now she is concentrating on getting ahead to win the money; that is it. As far as her belief in Amber and Rob (and Rupert's belief as well) there will always be an area of human nature who counts on trusting someone. Rupert's problem is that his sense of betrayal is so palpable due to his insecurities that he blunders. I don't see Jenna in that role.
Jenna is not everyone's cup of tea. I have found her annoying in Season 1 and times now; that is the nature of her personality at times (note also I was extremely annoyed by Kathy in S4 up until the time they switched and was hoping she would get booted and look how loved and respected she ended up being at the end and since) but the motivations and nature of these people are stronger than Jenna's somewhat grating personality traits or backseat right now in the game. I don't necessarily believe Jenna is being complacent; I think she has an eye open to what is going on around there but really, what can she do right now? She truly only has Rupert for sure. I'd say careful not complacent b/c I don't think Jenna is unaware of what is going on around her and just is following along to please.
Right now we have Rob suffering from ego/power and love. Kathy is suffering from friendship and guilt. Alicia is suffering from paranoia and temper. Rupert (on/off) suffers from insecurities and pride. Shii Ann suffers from haugtiness and circumscribed behavior (Ironically SA could have been here and Thailand an extremely formidable player in general terms but her personality and emotional characteristics prevents her)
With Jenna, I don't find her emotional baggage dominating her game (at least not anymore; her original GET THE PRIOR WINNERS agenda was extremely powerful )
I don't feel Tom is allowing any emotional baggage to get in his way either (whether this man even HAS emotional baggage is a stretch - I also find him extremely deceptive in his how he appears to people)
and I don't feel Amber has cornered the market yet on any emotional baggage though we see hints of it coming along with the romance and last night her sense of guilt and fear (Amber is a different story though; she had the most to prove along with Shii Ann as to why she was selected to be on this show, her emotions in this game were more geared to the win of the game and proving herself over anything else)
Mind you, immunity will ALWAYS throw a wrench in the game for some and save others and we can't predict that at all. Lex would have been here if not for losing and Kathy may have gone who knows?
With that dime store psychology Tom, Jenna, Amber, Rupert, Rob, Shii Ann, Alicia, Kathy are my sliding scale as it stands on paper. Alicia could cause a tirade next week and be gone. Rupert could win a crucial immunity and be saved and so forth. This is merely based on their current emotional involvement and necessity to others along with the potential to win an immunity. Variables in Survivor always tweak the formulas as we know
So in lonnnng form to answer your question, I still feel Jenna can be quite succesful PROVIDED the variables I mention come into play.
Looking forward to everyone's thoughts today; lots of editing and character development last night!

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udg 3381 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
04-09-04, 11:59 AM (EST)

56. "Rupert/Jenna"

One thing I caught last night was that Jenna was cheering for Rupert to win the RC. There have been times the editing has made it seem that Jenna was more loyal to Rob & Amber than to Rupert (the Rob sandwich, for example). Last night, I saw a lot more dedication to Rupert than to Rob. I think she realizes she's a third wheel at best in the Romber alliance.
---
UDG

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okaloosajohn 1259 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson"
04-10-04, 08:41 AM (EST)

68. "So why did Rupert pick Amber first?"

I thought for sure that he would select Jenna, then Amber. I wonder what made him decide to do it the other way 'round? And did I just imagine it, or was it edited to show a slight look of disapproval from Rob when Rupert picked Amber?

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udg 3381 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
04-10-04, 09:47 AM (EST)

69. "RE: So why did Rupert pick Amber first?"

I think he knew he was picking the two of them, and he said Amber's name first to draw a smidge less attention to the Jenpert bond. He felt really bad about her getting screwed in The Switch.
I also think he's so confident in the Romber/Jenpert/Tom F5 that he really isn't too concerned with politicking outside that circle. He is 100% convinced that he's got a free ride to F5 (barring something extreme & unexpected), and that after that it will be "every man for himself." He plays fair and honorable, and he expects everyone else to do that, too.
---
UDG

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udg 3381 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
04-11-04, 06:11 AM (EST)

79. "Rob/Jenna stress?"

LAST EDITED ON 04-11-04 AT 06:12 AM (EST)
I found this picture in the gallery on the CBS Survivor site. Obviously, we don't know the context for it, but it looks to me like Jenna is pissed, and Rob is blowing her off. It's post merge (note the blue buffs), and we know there was a lot of conflict all day before the TC.
---
UDG

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I_AM_HE 6123 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-09-04, 12:34 PM (EST)

59. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

he's playing an incredibly smart game....he was just like Lex here
huh.
I think you hit the nail on the head here, which just proves he's NOT playing a smart game. Don't mistake playing with power for playing with smarts, tact, or grace. His burnt-earth strategy cannot succeed, just like it could not in Marquesas. As we have seen, those unable to change their behavior from past seasons get burned, and it will happen for Rob, be it next week, at the final 5, or the final 2.
He's playing just like Lex

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emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-09-04, 01:22 PM (EST)

61. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

I posted this in Lex Early Show thread but I think it also belongs here
I agree with you HE that Rob's lack of SMAHTS (he thinks he's Wicked Smaht) will be his undoing
I was thinking the same thing VS. I believe by his words Lex was a hypocrite and it was sweet irony to see what he did to others come back on him and he was taken aside by Rob just the way Lex took Jerri and Ethan aside. Just great editing by EPMB.
That said, I believe that Lex was trying to make himself believe he was "all business" by saying this over and over. We all do it try to convince ourselves we are what we are not. We are all hypocrites in our lives many times over. Remember, after all we are human and have many shortcomings.)its GF today, its what its all about right??) So I also feel bad for Lex in that he got caught on the short end of the stick here.
However, Rob just put the nail in his coffin for end game. He could have easily just taken Shii out and stayed true to both his original Chappys and Lex/Kathy. He could have said then, "all bets are off now Lex and kathy" I took care of you now you have to play your own game. Now he will just have two very angry people on the jury. I think Rob is not all as Wicked Smaht as he thinks and that will be his undoing just as the Business v. Friendship was Lex's undoing.
emydi

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redbeard103152 466 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star"
04-09-04, 02:52 PM (EST)

62. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

Rob is being set up to take the big fall. He has been a power player on ##### and the last two episodes have began to lead us to what will eventually be his big fall. He showed his human side when Amber was banished to Chapera pining away like a school boy in love.His alliances with everyone will become more apparent as time passes. Its harder to keep things secret after the merge.And he has shown all that it wont take much to get him to stab you in the back.Any smart player if there are any in ##### should make him target number one on their list if they want to make it to the million.IMHO Rob has entered the final stage beginning the events that will untimately lead to his downfall. His fate is sealed in the same way that Lexs was.RedBeard

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managerr 1959 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
04-09-04, 12:22 PM (EST)

57. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

In the beginning, you praised Jenna's game play. Although she has gotten pretty far, mostly it's the luck of being on Chapera, who never went to tribal council since she joined them, until tonight. Do you still think Jenna looks good? I thought she looked naive and complacent, assuming Amber and Rob are trustworthy, when they are not.
The Jenna-Rupert strategy to me seems to be this: They are aligned with Rob-Amber now to the Final 4. However, they are working over Tom (Or at least Rupert is), so that when it gets to 5, they can knock out Romber if they have to. What they don't realize is Romber also has an alliance with Tom.
I think Jenna has been playing really well. She was bitching and plotting when she had to early on, and when she was in danger in Saboga, she slowly has been working her way up on the boot order. She has been lucky as well, but her tribal draw has been a lot worse than Amber's, Tom's and Alicia'sm and Rob M's.

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Ra_8secs 1081 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest"
04-09-04, 04:00 PM (EST)

64. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

I think Shii-Ann is a totally un-altering useless pawn.

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KObrien_fan 8360 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-09-04, 12:22 PM (EST)

58. "Post merge, race to F2"

Last nights episode is proof once again that Survivor was never designed to be played by people that have played the game before. There are too many preconceived notions (hence the boots of Tina, Richard, Rob C, Ethan and Colby), friendships in and outside of the game and other dynamics that make this game a game for strangers.
Way back in December when the tribes were revealed, on paper it looked like Mogo Mogo would have a very strong team for challenges in Colby, Lex, Richard, and Kathy. Saboga looked to also have challenge strength in Ethan, Rupert, Tina and Jenna. The tribe that looked weakest by almost everyone's account was Chapera. They didn't have any previous winners, no challenge hounds, but they did have a wise guy Godfather type in Rob M and a smart strategic player in Rob C. How was this tribe of misfits ever going to not get killed in challenges?
I stated way back then that what was most important was how these tribes became a team, and that many times the team that looks weakest on paper becomes the strongest because of the way the interact and play together as a team. Once a team starts winning, it builds confidence which promotes more winning, and conversly losing breeds disent and back biting and low morale.
Chapera came out of the blocks with a win, they built upon that and started to really click as a tribe and as a team. They had fun and continued to have fun, hence they kept winning and kept the ball rolling. Saboga self destructed prior to the first reshuffle. But the Saboga players that went to Chapera were welcomed in and have been apart of the winning and part of that tribe long enough to be considered part of the team. Mogo Mogo on the other hand started to lose, and then by getting rid of the "power" players early they shot any chance of winning further precious immunities out the window.
The major differences in game play have been that Chapera has learned that if you focus on winning challenges and avoid tribal council and stay an upbeat positive team, morale stays high. If you go into a merge with positive numbers, by all means get rid of the remaining players from the other tribe before starting to play the end game. The players on Chapera have learned lessons from the past seasons. The players on Chapera have all made that mistake in one way or another, or witnessed this mistake by others first hand in the past, and because they are hungry and focused and not emotional about it, they are able to cash in.
For example, Rob M tried to get the outsiders of the Rotu 4 alliance to join him and the others to vote out the Rotu 4. Instead, he gets the boot. But in doing so, he woke the others up, and in time for them to boot the core alliance. Rob M does enough to keep his Chappy's happy, he was not about to keep Lex, nor will he keep Kathy or Shii Ann. He wants to make sure to quash any possibility for a rebellion, and now is the time to do it. "Make no mistake about it, he IS playing the game".
Mogo went a different route, because they have also seen that the more physical players at merge time can go on a run. Their option was to get rid of the known power players from past seasons and then take their chances at the merge of luring a vote or two from a couple of Chappy's who may want to change their chances at an F2 appearance. This approach is failing miserably. It could have worked if Rob had allowed Lex to talk him into staying and booted Alicia for example instead. What the Mogo's never really considered was "What if noone is unhappy with the alliances they have come merge time".
By playing the game before and getting as far as they did, the targets have always been moving, first from past winners, to past schemers, and now the target is shifting to those that were good at talking others into shifting alliances.
Those left in the game:
Rob M: This is his game to lose, he is in the biggest position of power and in the best position due to his alliances. He is strong at challenges and he is not afraid to make moves that will further him. He isn't emotional about the decisions he has to make, he understands what his goal is, and that is to win the million dollars. He can and will get nasty if needed. I really believe that if he did have to sacrifice Amber to get himself to the final 2, he would drop her in a heartbeat.
Amber: She is young and strong and if the IC's keep up where one female wins immunity each time, she could be in pretty good shape to go on a run vs the other women left in the game, depending on the type of challenge. She has the right alliances and I truly believe that while she cares for Rob, she wouldn't think twice about sacrificing him if she needed to to get to F2. Some people don't think she is all that smart, and to some degree I agree. Her biggest weakness so far appears to be her not seeing the end game quite as clearly as Rob does. She is right to be concerned for the others wanting to separate their two way alliance, but she also needs to get rid of the other Mogo's first.
Tom: He is playing a good game. He has alliances with Romber and with Rupenna. He is the swing vote when it gets to that as a final 5 (unless immunities or something else mess up that plan). He will be in the same position as KO was in Marquesas between the Sean/Vecepia and Paschal/Neleh duos. He has said that he is focused on the goal of winning the game. By playing as the good ole boy he hasn't been a threat to anyone, question is will he be able to strike when he needs to? I don't think so.
Rupert: Veruca has him pegged, he is emotional, too emotional to win this game. He is a strong physical threat to win immunity, and is in a good position to get to F5, but after that the guns might shift upon him depending on which way Tom swings. Rupert is not strategically a good end game thinker, and so I don't think he will make it.
Jenna L: She is focused and has her eye on the prize. I believe Jenna is smart enough to keep things as they are going in the alliances she has and can convince the others to keep her around long enough for her to strike. Despite what we have seen in challenges, Jenna is athletic and a fierce competitor. The question is, will she get within striking distance of the gold? If she does, I don't see her letting go, I see her getting that burst of superhuman adrenaline that will push her to persevere.
Shii Ann: Or monikered now as "Sheep Ann", will try to be the chameleon blending in with the new tribe in a Sandra "anybody but me" approach. It might work with other tribes, but I think Rob and the Chappy's are too focused and will not allow her to slide in there. Once Kathy is gone, if Sheep Ann doesn't win immunity, then she is history.
Alicia: The outsider in the Chappy alliance even with the "new secret" deal from Rob last night. She hasn't been playing a horrible game, but she hasn't really had to do much yet because of the Chappy's winning. Clearly she is not in the final 5 core as envisioned by the group of Rob, Amber, Tom, Rupert, and Jenna. By the time she figures this out, Kathy will be gone, and allying with Sheep Ann would not be enough to overthrow the power alliance. Her only hope is to go on an immunity run.
Kathy: As much as I love Kathy as a person, she really has let her emotions take control of this game, and that is why she is the next to go. She and Lex had a decent plan IF and only IF they could get a rebellion going and get the numbers back in their favor, and maybe she believed that they could. But now that it is apparent that Mogo's strategy is not going to work, I don't see any way for KO to save herself. She is a fierce competitor and with the new immunity status going to top male/female finisher, she might have a shot at an immunity run. But given Snewsers double check mark for next week, the previews for next week, the family loved one spoiler, and the fact that KO will not be having a local survivor viewing party next week all leads me to believe that she is the next to go. Strategically Rob and the other Chappy's cannot back down now (even if they really like her as a person). She IS the biggest threat on the remaining Mogo's.
After Kathy leaves we will have nothing but 4th place finishers or lower from previous seasons. The way this is shaking out, those that were hungry from not getting to complete their mission last time have learned a great deal from the mistakes of players past, and in fact they are now the "power players". Those that even though they had good intentions of "taking care of business" or didn't quite have their heart in this game, are gone or sitting on the jury.
This isn't a game that was meant to be played by people who know each other.

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Ra_8secs 1081 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest"
04-09-04, 04:04 PM (EST)

65. "RE: Post merge, race to F2"

agreed

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MattyMax 515 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
04-09-04, 01:21 PM (EST)

60. "Post-Merge Alliances"

It seems that Rob decided to maintain the status quo and keep the voting along tribal lines, so I'd say the main alliances are still Chapera v. Mogo Mogo.
But there are a couple of inter and intra-tribal alliances that came into prominence.
1. Rob-Alicia : We had seen them snuggling before, and been suspicious of it, but this is the first time we saw them speak about an alliance. But was Rob just stringing her along, like everyone else?
2. Lex-Tom / Tom - Rob : Rob killed Lex so that Tom doesn't have a leg to stand on. I think this betrays a weak alliance between Tom and the rest of Chapera, as did his highly unsportsmanlike conduct at the RC with Rob and Amber.
3. Alicia-Shii Ann : Did anyone else notice them snuggling at TC? I think this may be a New York City Alliance , like Shii and Ken's alliance in Thailand.
4. Rupert - Amber : We assume that Rupert is loyal to the last Saboga, Jenna, but he did seem to have taken Rob and Amber's bait. Also, he seems to REALLY like Amber, a lot.
5. Kathy-Rob : Kathy talked about what she didn't like in Marquesas was coming out in Rob, and Rob didn't look her in the eye, but did you notice how She had a place at the table in the discussion between Rob and Lex. (I saw what I didn't like about Kathy in Marquesas coming out, too, the old hag!!!)
It's King Rob and his court of Dumb ASSers.
MM

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SouperStar 156 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
04-09-04, 11:36 PM (EST)

67. "Post-Merge Alliances OR That's not a knife in my back is it?"

>There are a couple of inter and intra-tribal alliances that came into prominence.
>
>1. Rob-Alicia: But was Rob just stringing her along, like everyone else?
Keep your friends close, and enemies closer.
>2. Tom - Rob: Rob killed Lex so that Tom doesn't have a leg to stand on. I
>think this betrays a weak alliance between Tom and the rest of Chapera, as did
>his highly unsportsmanlike conduct at the RC with Rob and Amber.
>3. Alicia-Shii Ann : Did anyone else notice them snuggling at TC? I think this may
>be a New York City Alliance , like Shii and Ken's alliance in Thailand.
>4. Rupert - Amber : We assume that Rupert is loyal to the last Saboga, Jenna,
>but he did seem to have taken Rob and Amber's bait. Also, he seems to
>REALLY like Amber, a lot.
All of these depend upon how much $hit gets stirred up next week. I think Kathy realizes her only hope of lasting two episodes is destroying the tribe in order to save it. She has to get the Happy Chappies to realize how many Final 3/4/5 deals that the Rombahfaddah have made. If she blows the whistle on Rawb's reneg of Lex (which everyone should be aware of and Amber's promise of final 4 to Lex & Kathy, the game could be changed. SheepAnn will realize she is a complete free agent (and next target). Alicia will realize she's the sixth wheel, and JennaRu will discover they are a means to an end. Big Tom will finally realize he's not in Africa anymore.
I doubt it will be enough to save her.
BUT if whichever one of the Rombahfaddah is not immune next week gets the next boat to Camp Juryville.

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speedyforme 228 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
04-10-04, 11:16 AM (EST)

71. "RE: Post-Merge Alliances OR That's not a knife in my back is it?"

haha, i just find this funny how it relates back to MARQUASES
didn't Rob M warn all Kathy, Paschal and Neleh about Rotu 4...
guess what? he was gone and THEN they took over the camp
this may very well be happening next week except switched
Kathy (like Rob M)warns everyone, gets booted, and then everyone boots Rob M (like John)
that would be sooo sweet

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true 9689 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-10-04, 11:24 AM (EST)

73. "RE: Post-Merge Alliances OR That's not a knife in my back is it?"

Who is she going to warn? They're all in it together. (Besides Shii Ann who is useless) The only other possiblility is Alicia, but she thinks she has a secret pact with Rob too.

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speedyforme 228 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
04-10-04, 11:27 AM (EST)

74. "RE: Post-Merge Alliances OR That's not a knife in my back is it?"

they're not all in it together...
alicia is not
rupert/jenna (amber says no, rob says yes)
shii ann (hell no)
only Rob and Amber are together to the end in any situation...
just like Toru 4...Paschel and Neleh were not...
although there never is a perfect correlation

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true 9689 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-10-04, 11:33 AM (EST)

75. "RE: Post-Merge Alliances OR That's not a knife in my back is it?"

I have to disagree with your Rupert/Jenna comment. Amber only suggested substituting Lex/Kathy for them out of a moment of guilt. (quickly squashed by Rob) What I'm saying, is that as far as Jenna/Rupert are concerned, they're solid. Nothing said to Kathy would indicate otherwise, in fact, the booting of Lex, just proved it.
That leaves Shii Ann, who has no power at all, and Alicia, who looks to have 100% trust in Rob at this point. Why would Alicia flip, and who would she flip to?
Yes, Rob and Amber have a solid pact, but it's obvious that the rest of them have been reassured enough not to be to worried about it.

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speedyforme 228 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
04-10-04, 11:38 AM (EST)

76. "RE: Post-Merge Alliances OR That's not a knife in my back is it?"

i agree with that as well, im no saying WHAT they believe, im saying what's happening
Neleh and Paschal thought they were in with Rotu 4 as well...until the coconut challenge...
we dont all know whether Jenna/Rupert were 100% in with Rob and Amber, only Tom is (as far as everyone says so)
if Amber were so quick to mention Jenna over Lex/Kathy out of guilt, how could Jenna/Rup possibly be TIGHT with them?

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true 9689 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-10-04, 12:22 PM (EST)

77. "RE: Post-Merge Alliances OR That's not a knife in my back is it?"

All I'm saying is that Rupert and Jenna think they're tight with Rob/Amber. This was clearly shown during the reward last week. I don't believe that Kathy has any information to prove otherwise, as Rob told her that they were in his alliance. The only one she could possibly sway from the original Chappys is Alicia, but we were also shown that she is confident in her agreement with Rob at this point. By the time she figures out that she shouldn't be, it will be too late. Kathy will already be gone.

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SouperStar 156 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
04-11-04, 07:03 PM (EST)

80. "That's not a knife in my back is it?"

LAST EDITED ON 04-11-04 AT 07:04 PM (EST)
LAST EDITED ON 04-11-04 AT 07:04 PM (EST)
I think Kathy, realizing that she has a snowball's chance to last this episode, is going to go down in a blaze of glory and take as many people down with her. Or at least their games.
How many people can the Rombahfaddah take to the Final 4? And once there, are they disposable.
I think the Karma Chameleon is coming for Beantown Bob. He stirred the pot in Marquesas and the dish was served after he was booted. That stirring got him on A SS.
Kathy will do the stirring this week and watch her dish be served while she's in the jury box. And revenge is a dish best served cold.

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DRONES 615 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
04-12-04, 01:08 AM (EST)

81. "RE: That's not a knife in my back is it?"

Kathy can try to stir the pot all she wants, although I doubt she will, it's not going to save her from pagonging.
Chappy's goal has been to make it to the final 5 and then it's everyone for themselves. The members of their tribe are better aware of the dynamics then the MM's. They aren't going to buy and BS shoveled by KO or SA.
DRONES

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AMAZON 98 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"
04-09-04, 03:53 PM (EST)

63. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

Hopefully now the merge will give us more incite as to everyone's allegiances and strategies. Now the players that haven't been playing the game will be forced to (I think last night was only the second tribal council for Alicia, Rob and Tom).
As far as the editing goes, with the past 3-4 boots, the person to be booted has been fairly predictable due to increased air time or a completed story arc.
The only people who I think can be voted off next week and have a complete story arc are Kathy and Rob and possibly Amber.
One thing that bothers me thought is Alicia still has no storyline, her confessionals are mainly for narration and not about her opinion and I don't think Shi-Ann even made an audible sound in last night's episode, but there are only what 4 episodes left? What are they waiting for? I'm sure Alicia had 2 have SOMETHING to say in a confessional about her alliance with Rob!

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Brat2u 93 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"
04-09-04, 05:33 PM (EST)

66. "Amber"

Foreshadowing moment of Amber last night?
When she said to Rob:
"I'm scared"

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
04-10-04, 10:14 AM (EST)

70. "RE: Amber"

My concern with Alicia is that MB is not investing much because she is going to be a casualty shortly. Alicia's "I will never write your name down" with Rob's (yet again) spiel of alliance chatter is becoming as habitual as smoking. What he said to Alicia means nothing to me because he has said it over and over again. What I am surprised about is how so many of them believe (or want to believe) his word.
I found it interesting how Amber stated she didn't know what was going on with Alicia in the same show as Rob giving her the "secret alliance" talk.
Amber and Rob truly only have one alliance member that they seem to be on the same page with and that is Tom. Amber mentions cutting off Rupert or Jenna, Rob had immediately mentioned Lex, Rob just cut a deal with Alicia and so forth. Tom seems to be the only solid choice between the two of them. I do believe Rob's pick of Lex was due to numbers as Lex had the potential to infiltrate Rob's safety net via Tom as Lex reminded Rob.
With the alliances running amuck right now, what is the best course of action? Alicia is potentially feeling less paranoid and more secure with Rob's conversation and in my thoughts, I don't think Rob would fracture his old tribe when there are two danglers from the other side (Kathy/SA) If he were to choose Alicia as a boot over them, it would send a message to his loyal and happy Chapera group.
Kathy of course needs to find SOMEONE, anyone, to target to give herself one more week. Jenna/Rupert were prior outsiders, I would suspect she would want to keep SA there because she is Kathy's only ally left from her old tribe. We see Kathy talking to SA and Tom, not Rob and Amber interestingly enough.
Since we see Kathy's story coming to a dramatic rise with only hints of SA and Alicia, I sense MB is going to want to show Kathy in danger, scrambling (of course) putting danger signals on Jenna (which makes me question why not Rupert? Could be some hints she sees of a Tom/Rupert friendship she doesn't want to disrupt OR Rupert may have, in fact, won immunity?) which would be coming to TC that we are left wondering if Jenna will be the casualty much like we saw with the Rich boot, Rob C. boot, Colby boot and Ethan boot.
I suspect that Alicia may be showcased a bit more when it looks like SA and Alicia are battling for survival. The difference between SA and Alicia is that SA, as stated, is a throwaway vote and a nice safe pawn with no real ties. Keeping her around for insurance purposes is good for everyone. If Alicia starts feeling paranoid, she has a better angle to assume some power since this was her original tribe, SA really doesn't have much leg to stand on in any situation. Rob demands loyalty but gives none (except to Amber really) but creates the illusion of loyalty. Rob would probably take care of Alicia before SA simply because he wants to ensure his safety net.
Amber's statement (as brought up) "I'm scared" was interesting. She is seeing what they are doing and trusts these players are not stupid. Rob's ego is so large that he has no issue that these players will step up and take him out. At some point I would suspect her statement and Rob's ego will be tested.

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ThursdaySlug 9 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
04-10-04, 11:20 AM (EST)

72. "Rupert"

Several people have made mention that they expect Rupert to step up his IC performance now that individual immunity is at stake. I don't think that he has deliberately hung back on these. Partly it is because the challenges haven't played to his strong suite - but mostly I think it is because he's tired. Think about it - he only had a short time after Pearl Island to regain his condition. You gotta know that the Survivor experience is tough on the body. There was what, a couple of months between Pearl Island and #####?
I also doubt he has the ability to think and act towards the long term goal. He plays day to day IMO. He wants to think ahead but gets caught up in enjoyment of attention/fun.
There is still a chance that Kathy & SA could team up with Rupert/Tom/Jenna/Alicia in some combination to oust Rob or Amber - but I doubt it. Too many "ifs". Unless there is a coconut chop - hmmmm.

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calamityc 1041 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest"
04-10-04, 02:42 PM (EST)

78. "RE: Rupert"

I read here alot because you guys are very entertaining. Ordinarily wouldn't post, but thought one of you might want to check out this chat in case the choice is #2.
"Spoiler Riddle of the Week: Only one of these "spoilers" is correct; the other is a bold-faced lie: (1) Julie loses to Katie in a physical challenge on The Inferno; (2) Rupert gets Rob voted out on Survivor: All-Stars. Guesses?
I'll give the answers to both riddles (told you I was feeling charitable) in our next chat, this Monday at 5 p.m. ET/2 p.m. PT, along with the usual scoops--including something you'll never believe about Alias' Jack Bristow. You need to be an E! Online Insider to enter the chat, so save yourself some time and join now."
http://www.eonline.com/Gossip/Kristin/Archive2004/040409c.html
This is the very last of a 3 page article, so if anyone is a member at E!Online, might be worth a little chat time.

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speedstr24 7 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
04-12-04, 01:11 AM (EST)

82. "Tribal Council seating and Tribal Dynamics...."

One thing I found interesting...
When you look at who was sitting beside who during tribal council, it was a very very interesting set up. As people have said in the past how where people sit sometimes display unheard of alliances....
The seating was Tom, Lex, Kathy, Amber, Rob, Jenna, Rupert, Alicia and Shii Ann...
So what does this mean?? Let's think about it...
I think for Shii Ann, it was a deliberate attempt for her to begin distancing herself from Kathy and Lex because she knows they are going down. I just watched the episode again and at one point, she was hugging Alicia who was in front of her and she was holding onto Rupert right before tribal council ended.
In terms of editing, I don't think that it was for no reason that Burnett chose to show us these portions of tribal council. I think they could be clues to new possible tribal alliances that haven't been revealed yet. This doesn't mean these alliances are successful... but doesn't think thought make the season seem more interesting than us having to know that Rob and Amber are in the final 2?
Wouldn't it be interesting if Alicia, Shii Ann, Rupert and Jenna pulled together at one point to oust boston rob??? I'm not saying that it is going to happen... but when kathy get's voted out next week and it's Shii Ann's turn to go, this may in fact be Shii Ann's game plan.
It would make complete sense for these four to realize that they will be outnumbered with the trio of rob, amber and tom no matter what they do UNLESS they get rid of one out of the three.
I'm not convinced that Shii Ann and Alicia are UTR players... they are just being edited this way for SOME REASON. What purpose does this editing serve? It may be to simply hide their boots in the next couple of episodes... OR it may be because they are going to form an alliance that we haven't heard of yet!!!
speedstr

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daisy01 6 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
04-12-04, 03:01 AM (EST)

83. "RE: Tribal Council seating and Tribal Dynamics...."

If Alicia is UTR and her quietness is not just editting, then perhaps she has learnt something from S2
she was never quiet on S2, always with the mouth and finger waving
this time she is shown as keeping the opinions mostly to herself - apart from one major confrontation with RobC

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DRONES 615 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
04-12-04, 05:21 AM (EST)

84. "RE: Tribal Council seating and Tribal Dynamics...."

After reading Survivor Insiders posted by Markopolo, it was shown that SA's vote was nothing more than self preservation.
She just voted with the dominant alliance for what reason? Does she thing the Chappies won't notice that she is not on their tribe?
DRONES

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
04-12-04, 09:52 AM (EST)

85. "RE: Tribal Council seating and Tribal Dynamics...."

Of course it was self preservation. SA has proven herself to be big on self preservation; the problem is that it is never subtle and doesn't garner any respect from her fellow players.
Things after rewatching that stuck out (in terms of potential stories of the players and the strannnnnnge editing)

Editing questions
The audience's knowledge that Amber doesn't know what is going on with Alicia and Rob's failure to clue Amber in about his handshake with Alicia. Editing chopping to show us that Rob/Alicia shook hands, Amber/Rob discussing who is who out there, Amber telling us she wasn't privy to Rob/Alicia?
Interesting how at TC, it was all over their faces how horrific the argument at camp was about backstabbing, alliances, etc. yet other than the Rob/Lex/Kathy confrontation, Mark Burnett didn't choose to have the audience partake in this obvious brawl. Why? Too much revelation that we aren't allowed to see? For example,
Rupert and Jenna - do THEY know more NOW than MB is allowing us to think?
Amber - does Amber know NOW that Rob/Alicia shook hands?
Tom - does Tom know NOW that Amber/Rob made a pact with Rupert/Jenna (Tom's name was not included)
and so forth...................
The audience being shown Rob not being able to "remember" Rupert's name in his discussion with Kathy and Lex about his "partnerships" that he didn't want to renege on. Kathy had to "insert" Rupert's name and Rob said yea, Rupert or something along those lines. Rupert is most defintely not a blip on Rob's final four radar
the over the top attempts to have the audience see how uncomfortable Amber was during the trio's discussion of "strong five" Now, Rupert and Jenna may be a little excited and not really paying attention but let's be realistic. Would you not be suspicious in playing a game like this and see that Amber is being noticeably quiet?? With that, would you not presume to think that Jenna and Rupert would be GRILLING Amber about what transpired over at camp that ultimately had Jerri booted? These things tell me we are being treated to a severe editing job because frankly I do believe Amber was questioned and I do believe Amber's "awkward" appearance was more style than substance (much like Lex shaking his head after Kathy kept immunity which we know now was complete editing)
Case in point, Rupert mentioned the strong "five" When did Rupert ever get an indiciation there was a strong five? I believe Amber/Rob told Jenna/Rupert the FOUR of them were aligned. Therefore, we HAVE to presume, at some point, Rupert knew Tom was included (via Tom, via Rob, via Jenna, whatever) The point being....... EDITING
Some notable quotables
Kathy: "I don't want to stay here. I don't want it. I
don't believe it's just a game" (It IS a game and
that is why emotions play no part, you may not be
staying Kathy)
Alicia "I will never write your name down" (does
that include for the million dollars also? )
Tom "It's like a calf sucking its mama's titty."
(Goes to his big boy game mantra?)
Rupert "I could go the next 15 days standing on my
head." (This sounded like a GREAT remark for
a potential winner but ironically, we saw him
say it upside down on the massage table
Amber/Rob "Yer not going on soft on me" "I'm scared"
(The irony here is that Rob is so secure and
Amber is completely aware of how many irons
they have in the fire. Her "awareness"
and his "confidence" could result in his
making a deadly mistake while she ends up in
a better position because of her wariness)
The Players
--S/A and Alicia hugging (a little bonding of two outsiders?)
--Tom comforting Amber while watching Rob/Lex battle for immunity
--Rupert being first up of the men in the immunity when Tom himself said he couldn't hold his breath longer than Rupert
--Tom and Amber battling for the sunken treasure at the RC (bit of foreshadow there?)
Kathy is the sensible boot because she potentially has power, Rob won't allow the power to stay. I can assume Rob thinks nothing of SA but may, in fact, get angry at Alicia if somehow the deal with A/R is thrown in his face by A and he doesn't appreciate that. Rupert will more than likely be the subject of a boot here and there just to play up Rob's issues with Rupert. Tom may be called to a point, like Africa where he is hoped to jump ship and he may hopefully do that this season. Rob acknowledged last week he has to watch BOTH shoulders; I feel that there is so much story in capitalizing on his ending in typical Survivor story.

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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-12-04, 11:42 AM (EST)

86. "RE: Tribal Council seating and Tribal Dynamics...."

LAST EDITED ON 04-12-04 AT 11:42 AM (EST)
What's also interesting is that last week's CBS eye mail says that Rob's new alliance (i.e. with Alicia) would raise questions about his loyalties. Now CBS does put blatant lies in the misdirection sometimes, but *if* this is true we didn't see it -- as far as we're aware, no one else knows about the Rob/Alicia handshake.
That said, I'm sure the only reason Rob made an alliance with Alicia was to keep her from flipping to the other side in the event of a merge. At that point he expected that Amber would be gone, and thus Lex/Kathy/Shii Ann/Jerri would be facing off against his alliance of himself/Tom/Rupert/Jenna. Alicia was a loose end that needed to be tied up.
I don't see why Rob couldn't clue Amber in to this, but it seemed like he didn't. In any case, I do expect the Rob/Alicia agreement to become an "issue" in a future episode.

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
04-12-04, 12:13 PM (EST)

89. "RE: Tribal Council seating and Tribal Dynamics...."

BR, thank you for supplying that. I don't usually read the Eyemail and other stuff because I forget about it. Well that certainly IS interesting then that Rob didn't see fit to tell Amber.
I can't fathom how it would NOT have come into play at some point and for now I do believe that Alicia (with her well known strong personality) will NOT let Rob get off very easy if he tries to extricate himself from that silent handshake.

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okaloosajohn 1259 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson"
04-12-04, 12:17 PM (EST)

90. "RE: Tribal Council seating and Tribal Dynamics...."

Maybe I dreamed it, but I thought Amber DID allude to the Rob/Alicia 'alliance'? I forgot to record it, so I can't go back and check now...

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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-12-04, 12:19 PM (EST)

92. "RE: Tribal Council seating and Tribal Dynamics...."

I thought Amber said, "...and Alicia, who knows what's going on with her?" -- or something like that. It didn't seem to me that she knew about the alliance.

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udg 3381 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
04-12-04, 03:53 PM (EST)

94. "RE: Tribal Council seating and Tribal Dynamics...."

Or, she did know about the alliance, but didn't trust Alicia to stick with it?
---
UDG

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SouperStar 156 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
04-13-04, 08:12 AM (EST)

96. "RE: Tribal Council seating and Tribal Dynamics...."

>I'm sure the only reason Rob made an alliance with Alicia was to keep
>her from flipping to the other side in the event of a merge. At
>that point he expected that Amber would be gone, and thus Lex/Kathy/Shii Ann/Jerri would be
>facing off against his alliance of himself/Tom/Rupert/Jenna. Alicia was
>a loose end that needed to be tied up.
>
>I don't see why Rob couldn't clue Amber in to this, but it seemed like he
>didn't. In any case, I do expect the Rob/Alicia agreement to become an "issue" in a future episode.
That is part of the pot that I expect Kathy to stir up on her way out. "How can any of you trust Rob? Or Amber? Amber got on her KNEES begging me not to vote for her in exchange for her and Rob taking Lex and me to the Final 4. Who ELSE has a deal to go with Rob and Amber to the Final 4?"
Secondly, why would anyone WANT to go with the Rambahfaddah to the Final 4? You know that they will vote as a unit for whichever of the other 2 is not immune, or who is the lesser physical threat if one of them is immune. And the only way to make it to the Final 2 is to win the Final Challenge. They aren't going to screw one another over at that point (but wouldn't that be GREAT TV!)
Just like the Robfaddah brought up issues just before he was booted in S4 that paid off on the next episode, so will his castmate Kathy this week.
It's just a game.

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emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-12-04, 12:06 PM (EST)

87. "RE: Tribal Council seating and Tribal Dynamics...."

From the web promo (I know VS no spoilers here ) and last week's show, I think finally, the beginning of Shii Ann's (and to a lesser extent Alicia's) story arc is finally starting and will likely be ending soon. It appears that Alicia and Shii have gotten close, from the TC hugging. Also, it appears that Shii may be winning a challenge this week (or there is misdirection that she does, either way, she's in the promos significantly for the first time IMO)
But I think that Shii and Alicia's "closeness" may be ironic because after Kathy is gone, it appears that Alicia and Shii have to fight it out for 6th and 7th place.
emydi

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okaloosajohn 1259 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson"
04-12-04, 12:10 PM (EST)

88. "RE: Tribal Council seating and Tribal Dynamics...."

And when you really think about it, the only way it would make sense for Alicia to go before SA would be for SA to win immunity, forcing the former Chappies to 'eat one of their own'...

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emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-12-04, 12:19 PM (EST)

91. "RE: Tribal Council seating and Tribal Dynamics...."

ok,
I agree that Shii becomes a mini-challenge whore, but I just dont want to get to far ahead of myself, you never know what will happen in spoilerland (as VolsFan reminded me this weekend!!)
emydi

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
04-12-04, 01:55 PM (EST)

93. "RE: Tribal Council seating and Tribal Dynamics...."

Yes I do believe it is what BR and I thought because I recall when Amber made that statement, I thought it was interesting.
LOL emy Spoilers inevitably make their way and I certainly am not immune to reading them; I just don't like to fit the boots to the spoilers because it can really suck you in and then ultimately bias your thinking

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DRONES 615 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
04-13-04, 01:07 AM (EST)

95. "RE: Tribal Council seating and Tribal Dynamics...."

Speaking of screen time.....
Alicia, Jenna and SA were practically invisible this week.
SA votes for Lex and then hugs Alicia after the challenge does raise an eyebrow.
To give the show some dramatic effect for the next two pagongings, IMO, there is going to be the usual illusion of a coup. Funny how that is going to involve Alicia and SA, two of the most inept players left in the game.
Jenna is the one player I cannot get a handle on in this game. She has this presummed closesness with Rob and Amber, yet Amber suggested to Rob that instead of voting out Lex they should consider Rupert or Jenna. Her relationship with Amber seems to be completely superficial. We have yet to see any of the grooming that goes on during the game between women when they are close ie Hiedi and Jenna.
DRONES

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ManateeBob 38 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
04-13-04, 03:11 PM (EST)

97. "RE: Tribal Council seating and Tribal Dynamics...."

It completely clear Amber and Jenna have no real relationship in Ambers eyes. Recall from the "Redux" episode how Amber has a confessional about how shes not going to be jealous of Rob paying attention to Jenna or Jenna flirting with Rob because "thats all part of the game" or some similar sentiment. Perhaps Amber trying to get rid of Jenna was a bit of jealousy coming out in a "private" moment with Rob.

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DRONES 615 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
04-13-04, 10:40 PM (EST)

98. "RE: Tribal Council seating and Tribal Dynamics...."

I don't know if it's jeolousy so much as paranoia. Unlike Rob, Amber is very paranoid at this stage of the game. She doesn't seem to feel safe in any alliance other than that with Rob.
I'm going to start paying close attention to the Amber, Jenna relationship. After the pagonging of KO and SA the Happy Chappy are going to start eating their own.
DRONES

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Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-16-04, 07:54 AM (EST)

99. "After Episode 11, Down to F7"

I thought this was an interesting night. We saw that Kathy indeed does not like Jenna L. We saw that Romber now knows that Tom may have indeed jumped the Chappy ship with Lex, as he's been "caught". I loved how Kathy point blank told him that he's been disappointing and that he should be "playing the game" now, and making his move. Wake up and smell the coffee, Big Tom....perhaps a little too late.
We saw via Markopolo's transcript of the Survivor insider that Rupert feels that he IS part of the final four with Romber and Jenna. Jenna indeed telling him this in the show, than Rupert validating it with his vote for Kathy....they've proven to me that they are loyal to me, so therefore, I'm not turning my back on them.....(Sounds to me as though Rupert will be in for a rude awakening soon!)
Alicia is definately feeling threatened...feeling more on the outs with her tribe. I wonder if she really trusts in Rob? Is she feeling threatened by the others...Jenna, Rupert, Tom or is it coming from Romber?
I thought the editing was VERY positive for Rob. I thought it did show that he felt badly the way the Lex boot played out and that it was indeed very hard for him. He showed he is human with his reaction from his letter from home. Also, I thought it was interesting that he said with his vote for Kathy at TC, that he is probably one of the most loyal people you know...
As always, it showed his intensity at winning the challenges. He's determined, and really wants the $$$$$. It did show that some of the others are indeed marking him as a challenge hog, and therefore, he has to go.
Amber was an UTR player last night, although she must be feeling vulnerable to receive votes at TC.....albeit from Kathy and Shi+ Ann.
Definately Shi+ Ann's air time is arcing in preperation for her boot this week or next....according to the OFG theory, it will be next. Can't wait to see how she angers Alicia!
Also we saw just how rough the conditions are out there with all that dismal, cold rain!

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pmspml5 3263 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
04-16-04, 08:06 AM (EST)

100. "RE: After Episode 11, Down to F7"

It is interesting that the comments about him being loyal were edited out of the normal show. I think the reason for that is that he was going to be loyal to his original allianceo of Tom/Rob/Amber to the final 3 - and somewhat loyal to Rup/Jenna. It will be interesting to see if he continues to win all the immunities. If he finally looses and they dont vote him out - then I can see "Dumb people, dumb dumb people"

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SurvivorMack 30 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
04-16-04, 08:19 AM (EST)

101. "RE: After Episode 11, Down to F7"

Rupert is doing the exact same thing he did during S7. He is putting too much faith into his alliance and his tribe. That is all well and good during the team portion of the game, but he is reaching the point where it no longer matters. His "rah-rah team" attitude is going to cost him this time around also. Unless he goes on an immunity-winning streak soon, his time will be up.
Tom showed his ignorance in the insider clips when he believed it to be him and Rob until the end. If he actually believes Rob will take him over amber, he deserves to be voted out. Rob's assumption that Tom would jump ship wasn't grounded in any fact. His conversation with Lex proved nothing. It was actually Rob who suggested that Lex would try to swing Tom.
Rob has been receiving a lot of attention lately (all season actually). Hopefully this is a build-up to a big crash, and not a sign of a win. I can't stand Rob, but he appears to be the only one still playing the game. He appears to be the only one who played the game all season. He does seem to be the only one who deserves to win right now. This of course will depend upon how many more people he pi$$es off before the final two. If someone can manage a mutiny and have Rob voted out, I would say that person should become the automatic winner.
~ The Mack

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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-16-04, 01:05 PM (EST)

104. "RE: After Episode 11, Down to F7"

Rob's assumption that Tom would jump ship wasn't grounded in any fact. His conversation with Lex proved nothing. It was actually Rob who suggested that Lex would try to swing Tom.
That's what I remembered too. But Kathy mentioned Tom as being part of their endgame plan to Rob last night, so maybe he was going by that.
In any case, it seemed to me that this was a "projected" plan; there was nothing to indicate that Lex or Kathy had actually approached Tom yet, or whether Tom would even consider it. Rob may be getting overly paranoid now.

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SurvivorMack 30 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
04-16-04, 01:48 PM (EST)

105. "RE: After Episode 11, Down to F7"

>In any case, it seemed to
>me that this was a
>"projected" plan; there was nothing
>to indicate that Lex or
>Kathy had actually approached Tom
>yet, or whether Tom would
>even consider it. Rob
>may be getting overly paranoid
>now.
I'd have to agree. Rob is starting to show his paranoia. He has been fairly smooth up to this point, especially last week when he held immunity. He has now been shown doubting almost everyone left in the game. If Rob is to lose this game, I think it will come to down to his paranoia clouding his judgment and him being caught off guard. If he does somehow make it through to F2, he may have stepped on enough toes to get there that he may not get enough votes. Either way I don't see this being Rob's show.
~ The Mack

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ManateeBob 38 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
04-16-04, 09:50 AM (EST)

102. "RE: After Episode 11, Down to F7"

>As always, it showed his intensity
>at winning the challenges. He's
>determined, and really wants the
>$$$$$. It did show that
>some of the others are
>indeed marking him as a
>challenge hog, and therefore, he
>has to go.
Did you see his little trademark smirk when Jiffy blurts out something like "this challenge will definitely be physically demanding". Basicaly from here out if its physical and its on land (maybe Rupert beats him in water) theres almost no way he can lose and he knows it. "The Gut" has set him up perfectly.
I found it hilarious when he was having his "private moment" out on the rock... "its not about the game, its feelings, well that and winning the money"... "this wasnt a strategic move, well alright it was strategic, im not gonna sit here and tell you it wasnt"... and the throwaway line as they cut to the next scene was something like "im having an emotional moment for myself right now,but im still winning the million dollars"

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Kokoro 3899 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge"
04-16-04, 09:52 AM (EST)

103. "RE: After Episode 11, Down to F7"

I'm not sure that Kathy dislikes Jenna with too much intensity. It was just the best strategy to try and get rid of her. Amber and Rob shouldn't be impenetrable, but they are. Alicia and Tom weren't going to vote for either one of them, especially considering Tom's alliance with them is public, but they ~might've~ voted for one of the ex-Saboga's. Since Rupert is the provider and Jenna does have a certain level of annoying going on at all times, she was the logical target, especially since she's pretty much displaying her bond with Romber so openly. That's a threat to anyone else who believes they have an alliance with the power pair.
It's too bad Alicia and Tom are sheep and it appears now they'll be getting well deserved 7th and 5th spots.

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
04-16-04, 02:00 PM (EST)

106. "RE: After Episode 11, Down to F7"

Wow, lots of good stuff last night and unfortunately will have to re-watch to get the real in depth talks. Things that stood out to me
The 5 and 7 upheavals Since we now have T/R/J/A/A/R/SA perfect foreshadowing for an upset of some sort to occur now and more than likely at 5 players as well. Shii Ann's emphasis of her as an original Mogo Mogo (and the last one at that) screams of her demise but we were treated to the 5 and 7 thoughts which place speculation on something upsetting the lovely and supporting Chapera tribe. This is in conjunction with
Shii's visibility and statements Nothing like a player finally seeing some television time. Shii Ann can no longer just be okay with being "surrounded by power players" She had that cushion; she must now BE a power player. Unfortunately, SA already has shown us that a sudden rush of aggressive playing is too little, too late. But her words really stood out:
"They (family) will be shocked at how far I go" "....feel energized.... makes me want to win....." TC Comments: "Being one of two last original MM of course I am target, but I think people will have to look at who do I want to take to the final two and who can I beat... ....if all this alliance talk is true, than I am the next to go but I'm a survivor so I am going to fight" "It comes down to winning immunity and not going down without a fight"

Could there BE anything more obvious?? SA emerges for her heyday but again, too little, too late. If she squeaks by one more episode (via immunity win - as her comments dictated OR by someone else's mistake) her decision to NOW become a power player is a lost but valiant cause.
Rob's up and down editing Could we have more of a rollercoaster of the Robfather and what Mark Burnett is bringing to the table with him. One week he is obnoxious, cocky, disrespectful, the next week he is emotional and softened, the following week he betrays someone, following that he cries. What on earth is Mark Burnett trying to do??? If not for the fact that I would LOVE to believe the foresight of these people, Rob is getting that "special" edit I described in the first thread that I believe the winner of All Star would get; not necessarily a positive edit like Golden Boy Ethan nor a cold edit like we eventually got to see about Brian but a "well rounded, multi faceted edit" where this person is shown warts and all but we appreciate what they did to get there. Perfect example......(paraphrasing)This wasn't about strategy, family more important than money, well a little about strategy; I mean I"m still getting the million but I'm just having a time out"
WOW! However, what distracts me from his being the surefire winner is would Mark Burnett be this open about it. It appears nothing can stop Rob and the remaining Survivors not only know it but allow it.
SA's comment: Strategic move re: letters may win him the million dollars
Are we getting the silver platter winner or are WE being duped? But Rob comments:
"Votes would have been on me if I didn't win immunity" Similar to SA's commentary leading the way to a SA immunity and Rob not getting that immunity?
Both Tom and Rupert's similar commentary on the weather......
Rupert: "We made it through night hoping it would get better. The sun came up and still bad"
Tom: "Waiting for daylight. Now we got it and it's darker ....." Along with "Always hard to put someone's name down but harder to see your own name put down Interesting the similarity. Again does it come down to both of them at some point? Darker days ahead for them?

Other mentionable quotes/moments:
Rob: "Big Tom, you got caught. Your best buddy sold you down the river and he didn't even know it Tom is on Rob's major radar - I have always felt there may be a moment when Tom or Rupert is chosen; I still get this feeling and I wonder if this is what may cost Tom as coupled with Tom's earlier concern that Rupert "may replace him" The above R/T commentaries solidify this to me.
Kathy and Tom's discussion - Kathy not wanting Jenna to win and Tom stating she won't Things that make you wonder when you hear someone saying someone else won't win.
Rupert's commentary about his wife/child think he is the toughest guy around when he isn't Rupert I fear again will feel betrayed and his emotional investment and insecurities will again prevail.....Will Rupert be able to be the tough guy like his wife/child see or will he crumble?
Kathy's commentary that Amber better change her game if she wants to win Again, does this bear question as to whether Amber DOES change something in how she is playing?
Tom back/forth considering his options He cost himself last time when he had a chance to take a risky option and went the easy route.
Rupert and Alicia's picks Rupert picking Jenna first no doubt - based on friendship/loyalty, Alicia picking Rob first no doubt, based on strength, Rupert picking Tom no doubt, again based on friendship, Alicia picking Amber no doubt because of Rob and physical capability, Rupert then choosing Kathy over SA or Alicia taking SA over Kathy whichever. The selection itself is very interesting.
Things that seem up ahead due to above......
The upheaval of seven is arriving...........
The Happy Chaperas are to be tested............
Rob may not see the necklace around his neck......
Shii Ann finally having to be a power player..........
Rupert is torn between what he shows and who he is...........
Tom is arriving at a point where he can float or rectify Africa......
Amber's predictions of "I'm scared" may start to build; Kathy's commentary that she better change her game if she wants to win may have to start coming in to play............

And a big question that Rob posed at TC
How do you win this game with class? Can you?

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SurvivorMack 30 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
04-16-04, 02:10 PM (EST)

107. "RE: After Episode 11, Down to F7"

Whew. Lots to think about there. Great recapping of all the quotes and situations from last night. All of the lists and spoilers so far have pointed to this final 7, but all seem to disagree and be pretty scattered aboutthe exact ordering from here on out. I think we may see the game blow wide open here in the end. If last night's supposed "boring episode" was really chocked full of foreshadowing and irony, then we will be in for some treats in the week to come. Great job!
~ The Mack

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memacmur 359 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host"
04-16-04, 04:32 PM (EST)

108. "RE: After Episode 11, Down to F7"

Seeing as I'm no longer catching up on missed time, I'll chip in with my thoughts and observations, as per usual. Luckily, the list gets shorter as the season winds down!
Rawb - As mentioned already, he is getting one whacky edit. Good guy, bad guy, greedy guy. Is it an all-around edit trying to show he is a good person and a good 'player' as he makes the final 2? Probably, but what they should really be doing is highlighting the stupidity of the other players if he loses a single immunity and isn't voted out.
Amber - Fairly quiet on the Amber front, despite the tease in the web preview that their could be some Romber happenings. Probably mis-direction. She should be threatened, but as with Rawb, the other players seem convinced they need her in their Final-3/4 alliances. 7 people. 1 guaranteed couple sticking together = break them up. Big brother players could figure this out for crying out loud. But I digress
Tom - He's been sold out and he doesn't even know it. I hope he listend to Kathy - he's at the moment in the game where I really think he needs to turn on Romber while there are still some people to back him up. Tom/Rup/Shii could stir trouble, but will they get a chance? Depends a bit on our UTR wildcard:
Jenna - Nice sentimental edit to try and get us viewers crying. Other than that, we saw her targetted yet again - this time by Kathy. Other than that, barely seen, suggesting she is still here for a while (I also get the impression she has the strongest bond to Amber and therefore may be the 3rd in their final 3 grouping (immunities pending, naturally).
Rupert - Nice guy, loves his family, doesn't play the game. He would be a surprise boot at this point, but not in 2 weeks. Needs to do something, or he'll be the nice guy that doesn't win (again). Survivor isn't a game for nice people, especially not when you're playing with a horde of A.S.S.es
Shii Ann - Your only hope is that someone else gets themselves in trouble, else I fear the pagonging will be completed next week. I'm not sure what will be more of a hindrance - her inability to negotiate or getting through the thick skulls of Rupert/Tom/Jenna/Alicia that Romber must be split up for anyone else to win.
Alicia - While I was aware of her, I didn't see too much until next weeks previews. Which makes me think she'll get the facetime spike next episode, Shii will be sent to LL, and Alicia will follow shortly.
I really hope I'm wrong, and I really hope that they are saving some super-duper scheming going on for a surprise boot of Rawb in the next 2-3 weeks. But right now I get the impression Rupert and Tom don't realize what a threat Romber really are (especially given Rawb's ability to dominate physical immunity challenges).
Incidentally, if Rawb does win, it will be an amusing full-circle run as he will have the cockiest winner's edit since the Dicque show of S1!
MEmacmur

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ADKer 143 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
04-16-04, 06:47 PM (EST)

109. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

I hope this is on topic because it is based on the post-boot interviews of Lex and Kathy as well as Lex's appearance and demeanor at tribal council. As much as I hate to see it, Lex has convinced me that Rawb wins the money, or at least Lex believes that Rawb wins the money. Lex planned a final four of Lex, Kathy, Tom and Rob. Lex assumed that Rob and Tom would join forces with him because that is what friends do. Ethan was mistaken in assuming that he would play the game together with Lex (because that is what friends do) because the money that Ethan won before makes Lex think very differently of Ethan than the other three friends of Lex, who do not have $1 million. The ongoing passion in Lex's anger towards Rawb tells me that Lex believes that Rawb won the money. Possibly Lex believes that Amber won the money and Rawb will help her spend it, but I believe more likely Lex just believes that Rawb wins the money.

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
04-19-04, 08:43 AM (EST)

110. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

Anything Survivor and analyzing the players and their means/methods is helpful. Lex's demeanor as well as Kathy's about Rob is interesting.
My only issue that I ever have with the post boot interviews, etc. is that sometimes they come from a freshly opened wounded place and it can be hard sometimes to discern if they
1. are still bitter
2. are not bitter but after seeing the episode opened up all wounds
3. trying to fool people
The immediate comments on the show and right after as well as what MB is showing through each person's story seems to go to the heart of the matter more because it is happening then and there and Mr. Burnett just loves to showcase his stories.
Lex strikes me as someone who was desperate to change his game to win this time and messed up royally by basically trying to change who he was as a person. He failed at that and it cost him in his decision making. He is no doubt embarrassed by the decisions he made and fresh annoyance, etc. came out when he watched the show again. Both Kathy and Lex in the first thread of this editing topic I perceived would have trouble in this game because they are emotional players and that is what happened. Lex, unfortunately thought he *could* change his game play but unfortunately couldn't because everything he did was based on his own feelings (wanting to be the big gun on his tribe by taking out C/E/R was NOT based on any strategy but for him to feel in charge right away) We already saw his debacle with Rob based on emotions.
In any event, Lex's reaction to Rob in post boot information is interesting and those of you who feel they can determine what this means in terms of Rob are more insightful than me because it really isn't telling me anything in terms of Rob winning or losing, more about the state of Lex's feelings after having to see the show. The only thing it really tells me is that there may not have been any quality time for these two to to "make up" then again, Lex may be bitter/embarrassed enough that he chose not to make amends either.

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DRONES 615 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
04-20-04, 02:22 AM (EST)

111. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

A couple of thoughts on Lex:
1.Getting the mohawk was an extreme reaction that you normally see only in teenagers who want to rebell. Which begs the question, what is Lex rebelling against?
2.His anger over Rob is carrying out to his interviews. He's openly hostile in his interviews and towards Rob.
Besides Lex and Cathy who else in the final 9 haven't changed their game all that much?
1.SA--She likes to play the scorched earth version only when it is obvious she is on the chopping block.
2.Ruppert--Loyal to his tribe and trusting the bad boy.
3.Amber--hangs on to the strongest personality. UTR, clueless and without a spine.
4.Tom--comic relief, missed oportunites and doesn't understand his place within the alliance.
5.Alicia--Loud and hopelessly on the outside looking in.
The only players I see who have changed their game, of those left are:
1.Rob--The last time he was on a team that was not unified without a leader. He was a malcontent and lazy. This time he focussed on keeping his tribe unified with him being the leader.
2.Jenna--Like Rob, she was on a tribe that was not unified with no alliances. This time she has a strong 2 person alliance on a unified alliance.
Jenna, remains to be that one player most hidden to us. All the other players have meaningful quotes, yet I can't think of a single one by her.
I wish we could skip the pagonging next week and start playing the game already.
DRONES

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
04-20-04, 08:32 AM (EST)

112. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

LAST EDITED ON 04-20-04 AT 08:49 AM (EST)
I know Drones, I know I have grown to accept this level of game playing over the seasons but I think there was an expectation this season because these were the All Stars which leads me back to my original point that I think Mark Burnett is also showing us.
Can people learn from past mistakes?
I find, so far, the answer is a resounding NO!! What got them in trouble last time has been their problem this time. The only difference for some in their longevity were circumstances like a consistently winning tribe or an immunity or the makeup of their new tribe and whether THOSE people are making the same mistakes; things of that nature.
I will contend that Jenna's quote of "David vs. Goliath" as well as the surreal vision of her left alone when Saboga got dissolved did get my attention as well as her initial statements about the past winners and to get off their playing field. In addition, I did raise an eyebrow with Kathy's assertion she did not want her winning and about her making the final three........
I think I mentioned in one of of my posts that while I don't necessarily subscribe to that "winning quote" scenario (outside of Survivor 1) I do believe in a certain fashion of their story telling. Certain aspects of Jenna (while yes annoying lol) often gave off an air of vulnerability but trying to plug along. Jenna is not everyones favorite but I find her pleasantly "normal" and while there are people who find her to be sliding along with no game play, I have to disagree. She was playing the mental portion very hard at Saboga and was astute enough to see where she needed to go at Chapera and has wisely kept her mouth shut instead of trying to overturn that tribe.
Jenna did pretty well in S1 considering there was scrambling against the formidable Tagi's and she managed to almost bring a coup against Richard so I never denied her that she isn't a strategizer.
I focus on Jenna here because there is a lot of hum that Amber is the major contender at the end. From an editing and story standpoint, I have a hard time with this. I do feel Amber made some more active decisions as opposed to Australia when she essentially just allowed Jerri to do everything and though she knew Jerri was not well regarded, she stayed with her. However, she is still very much an anchor to Rob's ship and aside from a momentary lapse in security, she really has been safely insulated from being voted off.
It should be interesting to see what ends up happening in that collective alliance.

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Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-20-04, 10:55 AM (EST)

113. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

I agree essentially with your thoughts, VS. I found Jenna bossy, abrasive, gung-ho, inept at challenges at first, yet I think as the time goes by, she is adapting and assimilating into the group much better towards the end of the series. She is definately trying her hardest to assure herself a spot in the final three. She has coozied in with Romber, and still maintains her bond with Rupert. I highly suspect that it will be she and Rupert in the F4 with Romber.
I think that Tom has a strong bond with Romber, yet there were some serious doubts raised by the talk with Kathy and Rob concerning Lex's strategy to hook back up with Tom. Wether Tom was told of this or not, it does not make a difference. That logic was exposed to Rob by Lex and mostly Kathy. The seed was planted. I also have to think that by now Rob is indeed theorizing as to who would be the best candidates for F3, and the F2 spots. I do indeed think that if he wins the final immunity and Amber is still in the game, then he would take Amber to the finals. That would be his best case scenario.
I think that he must feel if somehow he ends up with Tom in the F2 spots that Tom would stand a great chance of winning it all. Tom, with the exception of Sue, has not burned anyone. He is very well liked and underestimated by the group. He could definately count on Lex's, Kathy's, Shii Ann's and maybe Rupert's votes.....over Rob. So, I don't think Rob would want him to make the final 3.
I think he probably feels that Rupert is his biggest competition for the remaining challenges and is percieved as threatening in that light. I don't think he thinks that Rupert is as well liked or as deserving as Tom would be in the finals. Therefore, I think if Rob has anything to do with how the end game plays out, re. he keeps winning important immunity challenges, then I'd say Rupert will survive longer than Tom.
As for Jenna, I think she is probably viewed as the least threatening of Rupert, Tom and Jenna. She consistantly does poorly in the challenges. Not only can Rob beat her with ease, but Amber has proven that she is much more likely to beat her as well in challenges. She could be percieved by members of the jury that she is a coat tail rider, a little Romber pawn. I think Rob may well have found out that Kathy in particular was targeting her last week....I'm sure this filtered back to Rob wether by direct route, or indirectly. Romber is aware that Kathy (therefore, maybe Lex and Shii Ann as well) do not want Jenna to win. With this weeks episode we have Alicia pulling out the finger wags on Jenna, perhaps Romber may realize that Alicia may not vote for Jenna either. Therefore, I think that if Alicia and Shii go in the next two weeks, and there is not an unforseen "overthrow" of Romber, and Romber continues to be the challenge hog, then Tom will be F5, Rupert F4, Jenna, Amber and Rob will be F3. If Rob or Amber win the final immunity, then Rob and Amber will be F2. If Jenna wins, then I think Rob would still make F2.
I know alot will be riding on who wins immunity...but I'd say at this point it is looking more and more as though Rob just may win the $$$$ and the girl!

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DRONES 615 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
04-21-04, 00:15 AM (EST)

114. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

Except for Rob, IMHO, Amber is the 2nd strongest immunity threat remaining in the game. Rupert is a very close second and in water challenges he's 2nd and Amber is third. After that it's big drop down to Tom and Alicia. Lastly are ShiAnn and Jenna.
The vidcaps(i know i know they're taboo here )show that Jenna's story is about to be told. It seems that they are going to begin her story arc, starting with the long brewing conflict between her and Alicia. I'm hoping after this episode we'll begin to get beed on Jenna.

DRONES

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Brat2u 93 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"
04-23-04, 01:51 PM (EST)

115. "The Pecking Order"

Many forshadowing moments last night and talks of alliance shifting.
RC - I couldn't believe how many ppl chose Rob as the one they thought as most trust-worthy! (don't remember exact phrase) He really has them fooled! Interesting that Rob chose Rupert for that answer.
Amber had just finished talking to SA about how she could lie to Rob and he would still believe her...then we see Rob and Amber cuddling, reading the letter from his brother "Loose lips, sink ships." Holy RED FLAG Batman! Amber's playa editing picked up alot last night.
Is Tom the Mole editing?
During dinner, Tom sat next to Rupert, they seem to have a bond. Yet Tom was given cold potatoes. I thought they were closer than that, due to editing. Perhaps Rupert and Tom made a decision to keep their relationship UTR. Tom went to Rob to talk about getting rid of Rupert just to get a feel of what was going to happen, to see if Tom and Rupert needed to act quickly. Tom talked with Alicia about how vulnerable they are. I think if she had offered to team up with SA - Tom and Rupert would've joined in. "Big Boys game" still in my mind.
Jenna is finally back to be edited like she was during her first season on the show, whiney and annoying. Setting the stage for her booting, or will they want to take her to the F2? Romber initially talked about booting her or Rupert.

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Loquatrix 640 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
04-23-04, 05:08 PM (EST)

117. "RE: The Pecking Order"

>RC - I couldn't believe how
>many ppl chose Rob as
>the one they thought as
>most trust-worthy! (don't remember exact
>phrase) He really has
>them fooled! Interesting that
>Rob chose Rupert for that
>answer.
I believe the question was something along the lines of "Which All-Star would you trust with your life?" In all honesty, I wasn't surprised that many people chose Rob. First of all, there's the simple political reason that he's the "kingpin" upon whom all of them currently depend for their longevity in the game, so it makes sense for all of them to send him the signal that they're still trusting their alliance with him. And second, regardless of how we may perceive Rob as a result of the game he's playing and what he tells us about it in his confessionals, in many ways he IS showing himself to be someone who can be depended upon in a critical moment -- he's physically strong and able to provide, he's clearly capable of maintaining loyalty where he has genuinely offered it (rather than where he has offered it as a convenience in the gameplay, for example to Alicia), and he's a good problem solver who critically examines situations and sees solutions that others might not (where he had them pull the boat up and tip the water out rather than bail it with a bucket). In a time of need, he's the type of person I'd like to have around, so this is probably where he got a lot of the "trust with your life" votes.
As for Rob choosing Rupert, that was a good move. That's exactly the kind of thing that will keep Rupert close to Rob's side. It's exactly the sort of compliment and acceptance that Rupert craves.
>Amber had just finished talking to
>SA about how she could
>lie to Rob and he
>would still believe her...then we
>see Rob and Amber cuddling,
>reading the letter from his
>brother "Loose lips, sink ships."
> Holy RED FLAG Batman!
>Amber's playa editing picked up
>alot last night.
It did -- and I think another example of that was the shots of her chopping Rob rather than Rupert in the mask-smashing contest. I thought she appeared as someone who was making a strategic move on behalf of her alliance with Rob -- making it so that he wouldn't have the dubious privilege of being the person who allocated the food. This was also a signal to everyone else that she's willing to chop Rob if the situation requires it, which may or may not be true but it's certainly the smart thing to indicate to other people as being true. However, the fact that a lot of people in the general viewing public will consider this a "betrayal" of Rob, especially when viewed next to her conversation with Shii, kind of suggests to me that Amber might be due a come-uppance in the near future.
I was interested that we were shown lots of shots of Rob cheerily enjoying the whole mask-chopping process and having a lark with it rather than taking it seriously as the challenge that's supposed to expose the pecking order. Surely all the contestants are familiar with this type of challenge by now, though, and aren't going to fall for it any more. Thus, a smart player like Rob will act out as though it's all just a bit of fun, and nobody should take the order in which the masks are broken as being the real pecking order.
>Is Tom the Mole editing?
>During dinner, Tom sat next to
>Rupert, they seem to have
>a bond. Yet Tom
>was given cold potatoes.
>I thought they were closer
>than that, due to editing.
> Perhaps Rupert and Tom
>made a decision to keep
>their relationship UTR. Tom went
>to Rob to talk about
>getting rid of Rupert just
>to get a feel of
>what was going to happen,
>to see if Tom and
>Rupert needed to act quickly.
>Tom talked with Alicia about
>how vulnerable they are.
>I think if she had
>offered to team up with
>SA - Tom and Rupert
>would've joined in. "Big
>Boys game" still in my
>mind.
I'm undecided on this one. Your argument is persuasive, but I can't help but think that all of them are still so tightly shackled to Rombuh that none of this is ever going to go any further than "feeling out." Ultimately, I think Rupert just isn't emotionally capable of major duplicity, and thus that any actions Rupert takes are exactly what you see on the face of it. In other words, I think Rupert is sticking with his belief that he's in the final 4 with Jenna and Rombuh just like his dinner arrangements showed. Shots of Tom during the dinner did show him to be looking rather sulky about the whole thing, so he probably is realizing that he's the fifth wheel and is rightly exploring alternatives to save himself. But I think it's too late now that Alicia is gone.
>Jenna is finally back to be
>edited like she was during
>her first season on the
>show, whiney and annoying.
>Setting the stage for her
>booting, or will they want
>to take her to the
>F2? Romber initially talked about
>booting her or Rupert.
I didn't see her first season, so I am not in a position to comment on any similarities. However, you are right that we have been seeing a more abrasive Jenna recently. I thought it was unnecessary and unsporting that she would be derogatory of Shii Ann during the water bucket challenge, not to mention it's always a fairly dumb move to alienate another player completely. You just never know when that very alienation is going to motivate a person to pull something unexpected out of the hat.

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ksuzy 1 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
04-23-04, 11:29 PM (EST)

120. "RE: The Pecking Order"

The goal of that reward challenge was to match what you thought "everyone else" said, so Rob picking Rupert doesn't necessarily mean that's who he trusts the most-- that might mean that's who he thinks everyone else trusts the most.

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Loquatrix 640 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
04-24-04, 00:13 AM (EST)

121. "RE: The Pecking Order"

Yes, you're right, ksuzy. There are several levels of complexity in offering an answer to the questions. Of course, if Rob answered Rupert because he thought everyone else would have answered Rupert on the original questionnaire, then isn't it true that Rupert is the most trusted according to the original questionnaire, and if you want to get the answer right, it's best to simply go with who you genuinely think is the most trustworthy because chances are that's who everyone else said? ::grin:: We could go around in circles for days. Wanna dance? ;)

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Jims02 7407 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-23-04, 02:29 PM (EST)

116. "Amber votes for Tom?"

Interesting how Amber voted for Tom in the "thinks they're smart, but isn't" category... That's very interesting.

Jims02: 2004 CMY Anti-Executee Champ

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Loquatrix 640 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
04-23-04, 05:11 PM (EST)

118. "RE: Amber votes for Tom?"

Yeah, that piqued my interest too, Jims. It was kind of like answering "D" to a question that only has A, B and C as its possible answers. I ASSumed Amber didn't want to give a "real" answer so instead she chose Tom who can't genuinely think he's smart and therefore wouldn't be too offended to be considered not smart.
Either that, or she didn't understand the question. Which is, of course, a real possibility. ::grin::

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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
04-23-04, 05:38 PM (EST)

119. "RE: Amber votes for Tom?"

Well, that question was interesting. Apparently the majority of people answered Alicia on the original questionnaire, but not one of them thought she would get the most votes.
I think Amber was just genuinely guessing that Tom might get the most votes there, absent a clear-cut choice.

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RyrieRae 416 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star"
04-24-04, 10:31 AM (EST)

122. "irony?"

So what do make of Tom/Rob's converstaion on the rocks where Tom says "the're gonna vote for someone and it ain't gonna be me" and Rob replies "yeah, I know, it's gonna be me."
Is Tom sealing his own fate, or is the editing giving us some important future information?

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DRONES 615 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
04-26-04, 03:35 AM (EST)

123. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

This episode didn't expose anything that wasn't already known, on the the alliance side of things. The story arc for several players started to come into focus and in a couple of cases were brought to the forefront. Was it my imagination or did Rob's face time decrease?
This episode was the official end of the happy chappy. Whether SA is back next week or not, the tribe has begun to fracture.
The Shi-Devil made her grand appearance in what is one of the most exiting immunity challenges ever by an underdog. SA's problem is that it's going to be to little to late. Which is the story of her life in the game of Survivor. Her taunting and rubbing it in the rest of her tribe was priceless.
Jenna had a spike in face time and it was shown that she is annoying everybody. Her story is beginning to be told.
Rupert is hopeless. His giving Rob the first choice shows how Rupert will always defer to the Alpha male. He has 100% faith in his alliance and will ride it to the end.
Tom's facial expressions showed a realization of his true place in his tribe. He should have listened to KO. His story is far from being told. His face time was just that, with very few words.
Amber is being edited as a player. Her comment about Rob believing anything she says was interesting, as it's not the first time she's made such a comment.
Rob was shown to be the top dog by how the RC questions where answered as well as Rupert giving him first choice. There is little doubt he is in charge.
DRONES

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
04-26-04, 05:18 PM (EST)

124. "RE: After The Twist - The Players, The Game, The Editing"

I hardly have anything more to add to your collective mix but I would say that if anything, Mark Burnett is certainly telling the audience (and through SA last week) that these people have NOT learned a thing and the irony that they are considered All Stars makes it that much more amusing
Rupert will always and forever be ruled by his insecurity?
Alicia by her attitude (as evidenced)
SA by her compliancy to those she perceives in power (until too late when she then makes a move)
Now with these people
Jenna, Amber, Rob and Tom
Tom sat well in Africa and appears to be (as far as personality downfalls) okay this time thus far. His problem is doing what is necessary to be a big strategy - I'm concerned that this will happen again
Amber hooked onto a much more powerful player this time and is also wary enough to realize the danger she is in, however, if Rob should go, does she have any other stablility?
Jenna was very opened mouth before and apparently we are being shown that now however, Jenna was on the right trace with game play in S1, her problem then was her tribe getting Pagonged and unfortunately it was too little, too late. I still think she may have a good shot here provided she is careful with her mouth and who she opens it with
Rob's arrogance is always a concern for me but his physical prowess is definitely an asset. Rob's quest for final two may not be due to him but rather the blunders everyone else seems to be making however.

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DRONES 615 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
04-27-04, 00:24 AM (EST)

125. "VS...Is it getting time to start another thread for the stretch run?"

Maybe start one after this weeks episode?
DRONES

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
04-27-04, 07:15 AM (EST)

126. "RE: VS...Is it getting time to start another thread for the stretch run?"

drone, I think you could be right lol. I will start a new one for the stretch home

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