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"How would logistics work in case of multiple returned players?"
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Chez 712 desperate attention whore postings
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10-20-03, 02:56 PM (EST)
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"How would logistics work in case of multiple returned players?"
I’ve been trying to figure out the logistics of how the tribes and the voting would work out if multiple players are brought back into the game to form a “Ghost Tribe”. It’s a little tricky to work this out, as some others have suggested. I tried various scenarios. The following assumptions seemed to make sense:

∑the number of weeks total for the Pearl Island series will remain the same as usual – this will require that more than one player be voted out per episode, for awhile

∑there will be a merge at some point into the final tribe (Balboa?)

∑assuming the number of players returning is no more than 3, I think they would not have to build a new shelter. This means they would live together with one of the existing tribes, or perhaps in a combined tribe living on one site, a la Thailand.

So far we have completed Episode 5. Does not sound as if this “twist” will occur in Ep 6. Yet Jiffy said it would occur in mid-series. So my guess is it will be in Ep 7 or 8. It would be ironic if it occurs just as the number of Morgan plus Drake is at or near 9, leading them to believe they have all made the jury, only to learn this is not true.

I first assumed 3 players returning, and then 2 players being voted off in each of 3 weeks. This unusual voting procedure would end when the number of players remaining is equal to the “normal” number of players remaining at that episode.

If only 2 players, return, then the 2-player vote-off per week only has to go for 2 weeks.

My first scenario is that the 3 players return beginning of Ep 8. At this point there are 9 original Drake + Morgan left. The 3 returning players would compete as a separate tribe. Then 2 players would have to be voted off for each of the next 3 episodes – 8, 9, 10 - (one member each from the two losing IC tribes, or two at a combined tribal council – this latter case seems more dramatic, and fits into the hour’s program time better.). Only the victorious team would not have to attend. Only thing nasty about this scenario is that on one of these 3 weeks, one of the bootees would make the jury and the other would not. It’s workable though.

If on the other hand, the 3 members return at beginning of Ep 7, the scenario is pretty much the same except that there are 10 original Drake + Morgan left at the start and the series of 3 weeks when two players are voted off would include one week when the ending number of players remaining is 9, which therefore defines the jury. I think I like this scenario the best.

The alternative of having only 2 players return seems so overweighted in favor of Morgan and Drake, that it seems unlikely to occur until at or after the merge. Similar reasoning can be used to come up with how it would work. Even in this case, there would have to be two weeks where 2 players are voted out.

I tried, but was unsuccessful, at uploading the tables I generated to show the various scenarios.

Here is the summary

Scenario 1
3 players come back, beginning of Ep 8
2 players voted off in Ep 8, 9, 10

Scenario 2
3 players come back, beginning of Ep 7
2 players voted off in Ep 7, 8, 9

Scenario 3
2 players return, beginning of Ep 8
2 players voted off in Ep 8,9

Scenario 4.
2 players return, beginning of Ep 7
2 players voted off in Ep 7,8

In all these scenarios, the number of players remaining is equal to the “normal” number of players remaining, no later than the end of Episode 10.

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: How would logistics work in cas... okaloosajohn 10-20-03 1
   RE: How would logistics work in cas... aethelstan 10-20-03 2
       RE: How would logistics work in cas... okaloosajohn 10-20-03 3
 RE: How would logistics work in cas... esquire 10-20-03 4
 It will suck MikeD 10-20-03 5
   RE: It will suck jkokoj 10-20-03 6
   Disagree Devious Weasel 10-20-03 7
       RE: Disagree MikeD 10-20-03 8
           RE: Disagree mistofleas 10-20-03 9
           RE: Disagree Devious Weasel 10-21-03 18
 RE: How would logistics work in cas... tjstein 10-20-03 10
   RE: How would logistics work in cas... Acawap 10-20-03 11
       RE: How would logistics work in cas... PepeLePew13 10-20-03 12
           RE: How would logistics work in cas... Acawap 10-20-03 13
               RE: How would logistics work in cas... okaloosajohn 10-21-03 14
       RE: How would logistics work in cas... aethelstan 10-21-03 15
           Will not work jkokoj 10-21-03 16
               RE: Will not work aethelstan 10-21-03 17
                   RE: Will not work katethegreat 10-21-03 19
           RE: How would logistics work in cas... Round Robin 10-21-03 20
               RE: How would logistics work in cas... tjstein 10-22-03 21
           RE: How would logistics work in cas... ecoop 10-25-03 52
 logistics cqvenus 10-22-03 22
 RE: How would logistics work in cas... Bebo 10-22-03 23
   RE: How would logistics work in cas... fishtank 10-22-03 24
   RE: How would logistics work in cas... jkokoj 10-22-03 25
       RE: How would logistics work in cas... VerucaSalt 10-22-03 26
           Just waitin for Misto to feed me th... jkokoj 10-22-03 27
           RE: How would logistics work in cas... Nash 10-22-03 28
 All Booted PLayers on Ghost Tribe! Krautboy 10-22-03 29
 My Two Requirements Devious Weasel 10-23-03 30
   RE: My Two Requirements aethelstan 10-23-03 31
       RE: My Two Requirements Devious Weasel 10-23-03 32
           Workable Scenario (really) Blow by Blow 10-23-03 34
               hmmm... cqvenus 10-24-03 35
       RE: My Two Requirements IslandFever 10-24-03 36
   still puzzled badger 10-23-03 33
       RE: still puzzled blacknwhitedog 10-24-03 37
           RE: still puzzled badger 10-24-03 43
   RE: My Two Requirements aethelstan 10-24-03 38
       RE: My Two Requirements blacknwhitedog 10-24-03 39
           RE: My Two Requirements pmspml5 10-24-03 40
               RE: My Two Requirements blacknwhitedog 10-24-03 41
                   RE: My Two Requirements aethelstan 10-24-03 42
           RE: My Two Requirements badger 10-24-03 44
               RE: My Two Requirements Bebo 10-24-03 45
                   RE: My Two Requirements blacknwhitedog 10-24-03 46
                       RE: My Two Requirements katethegreat 10-25-03 51
 yet another scenario badger 10-24-03 47
   RE: yet another scenario blacknwhitedog 10-24-03 48
 RE: How would logistics work in cas... I_Got_Nutn 10-24-03 49
 RE: How would logistics work in cas... 1derfool 10-24-03 50
   Osten and Sandra barrymore 10-25-03 53
       RE: Osten and Sandra VerucaSalt 10-25-03 54
 Probably not, but what about this..... udg 10-25-03 55

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okaloosajohn 1259 desperate attention whore postings
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10-20-03, 03:19 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: How would logistics work in case of multiple returned players?"
It would seem that the simplest scenario would be to merely have a team from LL be given the opportunity to compete in a three-way IC. If they win, the losing tribes each have to vote off a player and the winners get to put a player back...

2 roll out, 1 rolls in and the middle man says "move over"!

Okaloosajohn

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aethelstan 4433 desperate attention whore postings
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10-20-03, 03:36 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: How would logistics work in case of multiple returned players?"
I totally agree.

I had worked out some elaborate system where RC's where replaced by IC's over multiple episodes. but then thought of the scenario you just mentioned and posted that. (and I later discovered, others had posted the same scenario too). That's the easiest way not to mess up more than one show.

This would certainly be a way that Lillian gets back in, Ryan is a victim of the twist and Shawn and Jon are the last 2 to leave for Condatora.

If this is all true, the final 9 would be:
From Morgan: Tijuana, Osten, Darrah, Andrew
Ressurected: Lillian
From Drake: Trish, Sandra, Christa, Rupert.

However, since no Drake members feature prominently in final four talks (snif), the two Drake bootees could be anyone. I think they've all been discussed as potentials somewhere or another.

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okaloosajohn 1259 desperate attention whore postings
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10-20-03, 03:45 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: How would logistics work in case of multiple returned players?"
Or, how about this: It's a three way competition, but the third place team has to boot TWO players! Drake finishes dead last and two go home, Lil comes back giving Morgan a clear advantage for the merge...

Okaloosajohn

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esquire 1095 desperate attention whore postings
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10-20-03, 04:09 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: How would logistics work in case of multiple returned players?"
A problem with your scenarios is the jury pool. One of the reason that the jurors are post merge, is that only the members of the merged tribe know both of the final 2 competitors. Under your scenarios, you could have a juror that never lived with one or both of the finalists and therefore have no basis to make a vote
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MikeD 344 desperate attention whore postings
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10-20-03, 04:31 PM (EST)
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5. "It will suck"
if they invite players who have been booted off to come back into the game. Why set this presedent? With all of these weird twists and whatnot, the show is not about being a sole survivor anymore and has turned this game into "who is the luckiest person".

I realize that you must do things like this to keep the show interesting and keep the ratings alive, but, in turn, it sort of makes the show less and less real to keep changing the rules.

Lillian was voted out. Game over. Period. She lost. That should be enough. If you bring back someone who has had the chance to eat, shower, and talk to the other losers who got voted out, of course she is going to take second place.

My only hope is that when she does return she wears a different outfit this time around.

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jkokoj 4389 desperate attention whore postings
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10-20-03, 04:47 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: It will suck"
Totally agree MikeD! I cannot see MB screwing with his premise of a sole survivor.

I have seen so many scenerios about this "Ghost" tribe but none of them work for me. Why would only the last 3 voted out be able to return. Why would Nicole and Ryan S. not be included? There are too many variables IMO. Sometimes, spoilers like these should just be ignored. We get so wrapped up that we forget about the core basics of spoiling the show.

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Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings
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10-20-03, 04:58 PM (EST)
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7. "Disagree"
It may suck. It may not. But we haven't seen it yet, and we should only decide if it sucks or not AFTER we see it.

People talk about the, for lack of a better term, tradition of not bringing people back in. But this is only Survivor 7. There really isn't any long standing tradition to speak of.


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MikeD 344 desperate attention whore postings
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10-20-03, 05:04 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Disagree"
It's all about playing fair and the integrity of the game....Devious.....

Again - if they bring someone back, the game will be based on luck and not on merit. That's all Im saying.

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mistofleas 8043 desperate attention whore postings
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10-20-03, 05:16 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Disagree"
It's all about playing fair and the integrity of the game....

You do realize that you're talking about Mark Burnet here right Mike? Yeah, like the SOS challenges in past Survivors were fair (set up specifically for the underdog tribe to win), like letting Morgan who finally won a challenge take Rupert for 3 days but then not doing the same thing the next challenge (set up so that Morgan could have a fighting chance to win a challenge on their own as opposed to a thrown on, to have Rupert teach them to use the fishing spear they'd had along...)

All I'm saying here is that fair and integrity certainly aren't words I would use in the same sentence as Mark Burnet.


--would use the word evil

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Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings
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10-21-03, 03:11 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: Disagree"
But we don't know the details of the twist, nor is there a large enough sample size of games, for us to say that something is fair or not fair, or that it damages the integrity of the game or doesn't damage the integrity of the game.


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tjstein 1960 desperate attention whore postings
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10-20-03, 05:37 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: How would logistics work in case of multiple returned players?"
On one hand, I really doubt that players will be brought back as legit tribe members. I have the feeling that Lil's torch incident made it possible for MB to hype that possiblity in order to outspoil the spoilers and have us all go crazy over the prospects.

However, that being said...it would not surprise me if a so-called "ghost tribe" were brought into the game to compete in challenges. Perhaps they will only be brought back in order to make Drake & Morgan believe that the bootees are back in the game when in reality, they are not. Just one more way to mix things up and cause mayhem.

So, a fake "ghost tribe" perhaps? Similiar to the fake merge?

JP: "Did I say that they were rejoining the game?"


yeah, probably not actually the way things will work out...just a thought I had

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Acawap 184 desperate attention whore postings
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10-20-03, 07:00 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: How would logistics work in case of multiple returned players?"
This is pretty much how I figure it, too.

No way I can see players re-entering the game with a chance to win. No way that works out... besides, why wouldn't Ryan and Nicole get a chance, then? What about this week's bootee??

And where is everybody getting that Lil takes second?? If Lil takes second, why is there so much hype about that and not about whoever took first (Darrah???)??

Something doesn't add up to me, and I think it's another MB ploy, like Gervase-X from Survivor I.

My vote -- Ghost tribe competes, but does not re-enter actual game. They win, they get to vote, or something of that nature MAYBE... but not back in the game -- PLLLLLLLEEEEEASE not back in the game!!!

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PepeLePew13 26015 desperate attention whore postings
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10-20-03, 07:12 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: How would logistics work in case of multiple returned players?"
LAST EDITED ON 10-20-03 AT 07:13 PM (EST)

>No way I can see players
>re-entering the game with a
>chance to win. No
>way that works out... besides,
>why wouldn't Ryan and Nicole
>get a chance, then?
>What about this week's bootee??

I don't see this happening, either. Too many logistical headaches IMHO for a 'ghost tribe' comprising of booted players to come back in and have a shot at winning.


>And where is everybody getting that
>Lil takes second?? If
>Lil takes second, why is
>there so much hype about
>that and not about whoever
>took first (Darrah???)??

How quickly people forget. The fact of the matter is that Survivor contestants don't know who won (or are allowed to talk about it) until the live finale -- it's been like that for each of the last five Survivor editions (S2: Australia to S6: The Amazon), or they'd risk getting slapped with a $5 million lawsuit.

Also... let's face it. Lillian is a quirky, interesting character who has been in the viewer's face throughout the three episodes she was on, as compared to Darrah who is about as exciting as watching paint dry (except when she's showering ). Naturally, there's more of a buzz centering around Lillian than there is on someone like Darrah, especially when Lillian has already been booted off and there's rumour she comes back in. That's news, as compared to a dull milquetoast who's probably going to fly UTR throughout.


Heidi: My biggest assets to the tribe are my athletic skills and my intelligence. I've lost one of them.
Jiffy: Which one?

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Acawap 184 desperate attention whore postings
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10-20-03, 07:21 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: How would logistics work in case of multiple returned players?"
excellent point, pepe. Extra credit for calling Darrah 'dull milquetoast'!!

I also agree that if they showed more of Darrah showering, she'd seem a lot more interesting, and ratings would for sure go up. Still cracks me up they were worried about the guys in the tribe watching them shower, but somehow weren't bothered by fat sweaty cameramen FILMING them.

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okaloosajohn 1259 desperate attention whore postings
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10-21-03, 10:36 AM (EST)
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14. "RE: How would logistics work in case of multiple returned players?"
Maybe they used fat, sweaty camerawomen? <g>

Okaloosajohn

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aethelstan 4433 desperate attention whore postings
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10-21-03, 10:40 AM (EST)
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15. "RE: How would logistics work in case of multiple returned players?"
You just made me think of an interesting possibility Acawap.

Ep. 6 goes by normally leaving 10 survivors and an anticipation of a merge. En Ep. 7, the ghost tribes competes with Drake and Morgan forcing Drake and Morgan to each vote someone out who will both not be in the jury. But we need 7 jury members, so then the ghost has its internal challenge to determine which of them will take the jury spot.

This way the ghost tribe comes back into the game but doesn't come back all the way.

What dya think?

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jkokoj 4389 desperate attention whore postings
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10-21-03, 10:53 AM (EST)
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16. "Will not work"
Lil, Ryan S. and Nicole never got the chance to interact with the other tribe. Same with Michelle and Burton. I can see the "ghost" tribe participating in challenges to screw things up a little but not to be part of the final vote.

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aethelstan 4433 desperate attention whore postings
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10-21-03, 11:16 AM (EST)
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17. "RE: Will not work"
Good point.

However, what if, the jury ghost member lives with the tribe? This way, s/he can get a much bigger picture of the remaining players. This could also explain Lillian's huge weight loss.

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katethegreat 207 desperate attention whore postings
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10-21-03, 03:58 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: Will not work"
IF a booted player returns (which I think will damage popularity of the series, since to MANY people, it violates the BASIC nature of TC - that's why I say IF)

IF . . . THEN the most sense to me would be to let all six of the snuffed members compete as a tribe against Drake and Morgan. (I'm looking at Episode 7, "What the . . .", traditional merge episode, right?) If ghost wins, Drake loses one, Morgan loses one, and ghost has internal competition to add one back (Lil wins).

The merge would have to now occur (after double TC) - otherwise, where does Lil live?

This is similar to what many have posted above, I realize; just agreeing with you guys.

However, one more problem with this twist: If the twist was planned from before Day One, as per rules, then it would have been possible at Episode 7 for there to be 8 Drake members, 2 Morgan (barring the thrown IC, couldn't that have occurred? well, except for a good ol' rigged SOS challenge . . . ) Two Morgan could not possibly vote each other out. Or do the pre-determined plans have multitudes of what if's re: size of tribes, etc??

So except for the spoiler info, I would say NO WAY. Of course and obviously, anythings possible with MB.

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Round Robin 2914 desperate attention whore postings
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10-21-03, 10:06 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: How would logistics work in case of multiple returned players?"
Another possibility: What if the merge happens in E7 as it normally does, then the ghost tribe comes to the IC, they hold an endurance IC, and the ghost tribe member who lasts the longest returns to the game and at some point either 2 people get booted at the same TC or an extra IC and TC are held at some point? Or what if at the time of the merge the ghost tribe comes back, they do an endurance challenge, and the first ones off are AUTOMATICALLY gone till they get down to 10, then they hold a normal TC and get down to the 9 member jury? I admit this sounds kind of wacko, but the whole idea of a returning player is pretty out there itself, so this makes as much sense as anything.
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tjstein 1960 desperate attention whore postings
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10-22-03, 01:03 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: How would logistics work in case of multiple returned players?"
Admittedly, it is kinda wacko, as you said. However, I can see the possibility of that happening. That makes more sense to me than any other way of returning someone to the game.

But I still think that IF someone comes back to the tribe, it will be a misdirection to have Drake and Morgan think that the player(s) is(are) still in the game when taht isn't actually the case. Instead of a fake merge, perhaps we will see a fake return.

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ecoop 3 desperate attention whore postings
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10-25-03, 10:10 AM (EST)
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52. "RE: How would logistics work in case of multiple returned players?"
I agree with your theory. I speculate there won't be a reward challenge this time, with everything else going on.

In a 3-way competition, the ghost tribe wins, and the Drake and Morgan teams each vote one person off, leaving 8 players. Then the ghost tribe has an individual immunity competition and the winner joins the merged tribe, for a total of nine. This theory keeps the show on track timewise and with the preview information about a two-part episode.

OR

If the ghost tribe loses (spoilers lead us to believe they don't), it fades away. The remaining losing team votes one person off and the new tribe of nine merges. This also keeps the show on track timewise.

This also tracks with the spoiler info about the booted member winning a spot back on the team. Then, wins a second immunity challenge to keep from getting booted immediately from the merged team. This gives her (Lil/Trish) time to form an alliance that keeps her in the game to the end.

And, the team has a bash provided by MB to make up for no reward challenge.

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10-22-03, 02:26 PM (EST)
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22. "logistics"
the way it would work is that the extra person wouldn't be voted out but instead carried away or pecked to death by a vengeful pelican.


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10-22-03, 02:33 PM (EST)
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23. "RE: How would logistics work in case of multiple returned players?"
LAST EDITED ON 10-22-03 AT 04:18 PM (EST)

The Queen of Crazy Scenarios strikes again!

First of all, there's nothing to say that bringing back a ghost tribe would stick with the conventional TC every 3 day schedule. Maybe the ghost tribe is back for one and only one 3 day period, with a daily challenge and TC in line to shuffle things up. In each TC, only the winning tribe is immune - the other two each have to boot someone off.

E6 - For argument's sake, let's say Shawn goes. Here's the makeup of the tribes:

Morgan: Andrew, Tijuana, Osten, Darrah, Ryan O
Drake: Trish, Sandra, Christa, Jon, Rupert
Ghost: Nicole, Ryan S, Lillian, Burton, Michelle, Shawn

There are three immunity challenges, with Morgan winning 2 and Drake winning the other one.

Morgan goes to TC once and boots Ryan O, fufilling the spoiler that he is a victim of the twist.

Drake goes to TC twice and boots Christa and Jon, fufilling the speculation that these two do not go far in the game. It also sets up Jon to be one of the last leaving, per Wezzie's spoiler.

Ghostie goes to TC 3 times and boots, Nicole, Ryan S, and Shawn. If Shawn and Jon get booted the same TC, this would fufill the spoiler that they are the last 2 to leave.

Why would Burton and Michelle keep Lillian?
- We've already heard Michelle comment that Shawn would be the most likely to defect, so we know she doesn't trust him.
- Burton has commented that Shawn didn't have a strategy, so he was just basically kept around and used by the others. Shawn badmouthed Burton as soon as he was gone, so Burton would have no reason to trust him.
- Is this the BIG LIE? Does Lillian save her neck by pledging loyalty to Burton and Michelle, only to betray them once she has a chance to ally with some of her original tribe? That would explain how Burton has knowledge of the lie before it airs, since he was a victim of it. We were beaten over the head with how trustworthy Lillian was, so it wouldn't be a surprise that Burton and Michelle would put their trust in Lillian instead of Shawn. Edited to add: This would also fit in with Lillian finishing second to Darrah, since betraying these two could get them to vote against her.

This brings us to the following group of 10:
- Andrew, Tijuana, Osten, Darrah
- Trish, Sandra, Rupert
- Lillian, Burton, Michelle

At this point, we do have a merge, and Rupert is the last player voted out before the jury. This fufills Snewser's statement that the tribe had no problem voting him out, because as someone has already pointed out, he's too big of a threat to keep him around.

Jury: Andrew, Tijuana, Osten, Darrah, Lillian, Trish, Sandra, Burton, Michelle

With 5 original Morgans, the pagonging begins, thus explaining how Morgan is able to dominate the end game.

We really do have guidelines here. Believe it or not, the Guidelines make things more fun. Really.

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fishtank 36 desperate attention whore postings
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10-22-03, 03:11 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: How would logistics work in case of multiple returned players?"
I know this will probably be shot down but here goes anyway. I personally find the predictability of the program to be a little boring (this is not to say I don't enjoy trying to figure out who will be booted, etc.). What I'd like to see is a REAL SURVIVOR, i.e., someone who wins based on being able to survive the elements, not just play the "people" game. The possibility of a returning tribe made up of people who have the skills necessary to survive on their own is exciting to me. What if the members of the "ghost" tribe can knock off players from the merged tribe - one on one, no TC, just challenge to some competition and "knock them off." It would fit in with the pirate idea. Alliances would crumble and it would really be "every man/woman for him/herself", literally. This could explain how three or more players may come back but only one stays.
There's been a lot of speculation about the colors of the tribes. I'd really like an explanation of the purple bandana JP was wearing and the pirate ship he was hanging onto in the series preseason promos. Can't you just see him sailing into the cove waving his sword.
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10-22-03, 03:58 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: How would logistics work in case of multiple returned players?"
All Hail Bebo!! That is a great scenerio. But is MB as smart as you to think of it???

Sincerely, we have some spoilers here that need to be writing for MB. You guys come up with the best stuff!!

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10-22-03, 04:57 PM (EST)
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26. "RE: How would logistics work in case of multiple returned players?"
You may wish to check out the article I posted in esquires thread. Apparently Phoenix has learned that EVERYONE comes back, including Nicole and Ryan S.
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10-22-03, 05:34 PM (EST)
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27. "Just waitin for Misto to feed me that Pelican!"
LOL Thanks Veruca...sigh...bums me out this 3rd tribe business. I guess MB does listen to the wants of his spoilers!

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10-22-03, 05:41 PM (EST)
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28. "RE: How would logistics work in case of multiple returned players?"
I don't know is to be assumed here but if all the booted players get to compete and there are a couple of strong ones among bootees, this could screw things up immensely. It could also affect voting because once learning that there's a chance that players could come back and are not gone forever, voting strategy has to change. Throw off your strong ones and you create a stronger ghost team making your tribe vunerable. This could change the whole face of how this game is played and perhaps allow for the strongest survivors instead of the best players becoming the ultimate survivor.
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10-22-03, 06:04 PM (EST)
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29. "All Booted PLayers on Ghost Tribe!"
From VolcanicGlass at Phoenix:

http://resources.survivorphoenix.com/postnuke/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=811

All Booted Players on Ghost Tribe
Posted by: Survivor Phoenix on Oct 22, 2003 - 04:08 PM


SURVIVOR PHOENIX
October 22, 2003

Survivor Phoenix has learned that all of the booted players, including Nicole and Ryan S., will return as part of the Ghost Tribe.

Last week, we reported that the booted players form a third tribe to compete against the Drake and Morgan tribes (see Ghost Tribe Competes), probably under a wine-colored flag. Earlier reports have placed the number of returning players anywhere from 1 to 3, but well-placed sources now tell us that all of the players voted out of their respective tribes will form the as-yet-unnamed 3rd tribe.


Krautboy

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10-23-03, 04:26 PM (EST)
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30. "My Two Requirements"
I wanted to get this out there since we are on the cusp of finding out how this will work. I hope the following two things happen with the ghost tribe. 1. Every booted player should have a chance to come back. To me, that would be the only thing that would be fair to the booted players. 2. It should be tougher for a booted player to get back in the game than it is for a player still in the game to stay in the game. To me, that would be the only thing that would be fair for the players still in the game.

If spoilers are to be believed, the first requirement has been met. However, I don't think anyone has posited a scenario which would fulfill the second requirement.

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10-23-03, 04:47 PM (EST)
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31. "RE: My Two Requirements"
I think it has, DW.

To return to the game, the ghost tribe must finish first in the 3-way challenge. Not second or third. Then and only then, the ghost tribe has an endurance challenge or a relight-your-torch challenge to see which one can come back.
I can understand if you feel that this isn't difficult enough and I sort of agree. What would be bad is if the returning player merely chooses which live player to replace and not have him/her voted out by his/her tribe.

My 2 cents.

-aethelstan

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10-23-03, 04:49 PM (EST)
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32. "RE: My Two Requirements"
D'oh! I even read that idea, and you're right. That would qualify.


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10-23-03, 07:16 PM (EST)
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34. "Workable Scenario (really)"
How's this for a workable scenario (lots of which comes from other posters). I've numbered the items to facilitate others in pointing out my stupidity:

1. Merge happens at 10 players.
2. Two members of the post-merge tribe are picked to go to the Ghost tribe (two get booted in TC style, volunteers, paid to go over, randomly chosen, etc.)
3. We now have two new tribes of eight, one consisting of bootees + 2 non-bootees and the other consisting only of non-bootees.
4. Thereafter, if the Ghost tribe loses a challenge, they must evict two people. If they win an IC, both tribes go to TC and one member of each gets the boot. This keeps the boot schedule on track.
5. When the total number of players gets down to ten (again) the tribes merge for the final time. Two players still get booted at each TC, but former members of the Ghost tribe are no longer distinguishable in the voting (they're not guaranteed to be sent packing if they don't win IC).

I'm not saying I like this scenario, but it would be workable and would make complete hell out of alliances if two people get booted each TC.

It also meets your two requirements in that all booted players get to return, and the booted players will have a tougher time staying in the game than the non-boots since at least one of them is guaranteed to go home at each TC. Well, that's not entirely true, but it's likely.

Up to five prior boots could theoretically make it past this 'penalty' stage and be back on a level playing field, but that would require the Ghost tribe to be successful in three straight ICs and never vote out one of the prior boots.

Like I said before, I don't really like the idea of a Ghost tribe, but I think the scenario I've outlined would work (logistically), would still favor non-bootees, but also give boots an outside chance to go far in the game. After all, they drag 16 people out in the ocean, they might as well squeeze every drop of entertainment out of them that they can.

-P

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10-24-03, 00:45 AM (EST)
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35. "hmmm..."
... I like...

cq*heart*this...

I think I need to contemplate it some more, but at first glance, it seems doable. It is just the right level of complicated. It also satisfies the Dweezil Factors above.


cq's Joe Millionaire summary!!!
- promises to think about it more and return later

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10-24-03, 02:49 AM (EST)
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36. "RE: My Two Requirements"
Aethelstan, this makes sense because the older woman who returns is rumored to have won 2 challenges in a row. So she would win the ghost tribe challenge with the group and then the individual challenge among the ghosts to see who returns.
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10-23-03, 07:05 PM (EST)
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33. "still puzzled"
i am still having a hard time reconciling the SUCCESS of the ghost tribe with the COMPOSITION of the ghost tribe. if, as some are speculating, the ghost tribe has to beat both drake and morgan to reenter the game (or to have a shot at reentering the game or to have a shot at one of them reentering the game or. . .) we are looking at the tribes as follows:

drake
rupert - jon - christa - sandra - shawn/trish

morgan
andrew - osten - darrah - ryan o - tijuana

ghosties
nicole - ryan s - lil - burton - michelle - shawn/trish

now, perhaps the ghost tribe will have more competitors, and that gives them the edge. or perhaps they'll have to sit someone out (i'll go out on a limb here and guess they sit out poor ryan). i STILL have a hard time seeing them win -- at least a physical competition -- particularly if drake still has rupert AND shawn. granted, if its water based, morgan has no hope in hell and the ghosties will have some good swimmers. but STILL!!

but ok, let's just say that osten nearly drowns again, and/or jon is forced to lift more than 30 pounds, and/or rhino has to catch a fish, and miracle of miracles, the ghosties win.

if there's an internal challenge amongst the 6 of them, can either trish or lil emerge on top? again, i'm doubtful.

but then again, i am surprised again and again by the outcome of this show, which is, i s'pose, why i love watching it.

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10-24-03, 10:36 AM (EST)
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37. "RE: still puzzled"
i am still having a hard time reconciling the SUCCESS of the ghost tribe with the COMPOSITION of the ghost tribe

A) The Ghost Tribe will be well-rested, fed, and refreshed- they will be less stressed.

B) The challenge apparently involves escaping from cages which will probably involve untying knots. Lil is supposed to be the "knot queen".

C) The Ghost Tribe has had a chance to bond at LL without the pressures of being in the game- they could be more focused.

BTW- I think the ghost tribe only has 4 members- Lil, Burton, Michelle, Trish (IMO).


Another quality Ice Cat creation 2003

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badger 1273 desperate attention whore postings
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10-24-03, 02:21 PM (EST)
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43. "RE: still puzzled"

>A) The Ghost Tribe will be
>well-rested, fed, and refreshed- they
>will be less stressed.
>
>B) The challenge apparently involves escaping
>from cages which will probably
>involve untying knots. Lil
>is supposed to be the
>"knot queen".
>
>C) The Ghost Tribe has had
>a chance to bond at
>LL without the pressures of
>being in the game- they
>could be more focused.
>

well, you've both convinced me of how the ghost tribe can win and of why this is such a crappy (dare we say unfair?) thing of MB to do.

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aethelstan 4433 desperate attention whore postings
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10-24-03, 01:31 PM (EST)
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38. "RE: My Two Requirements"
Devious,

I think the challenge pics shows how our second requirement is met. Since this is a jailbreak type challenge, the ghost tribe needs to get 6 players out while Drake/Morgan only need to get their 5 out. That's a pretty big disadvantage, imo.


-aethelstan

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10-24-03, 01:55 PM (EST)
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39. "RE: My Two Requirements"
Well, now we know ALL the former bootees come back to make up the purple ghost tribe. But wouldn't one person have to sit out of the challenge to make it even? I don't see Nicole inside the cage in the caps- maybe she sits out.

Also what I want to know is when do you think the ghosties were told they were going back into the game?


Another quality Ice Cat creation 2003

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10-24-03, 02:02 PM (EST)
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40. "RE: My Two Requirements"
Yes but the ghost tribe's hands are not tied.
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10-24-03, 02:09 PM (EST)
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41. "RE: My Two Requirements"
Maybe they have already been untied at that point- Burton is in the cage with them and now they are working to get back out?


Another quality Ice Cat creation 2003

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aethelstan 4433 desperate attention whore postings
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10-24-03, 02:15 PM (EST)
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42. "RE: My Two Requirements"
Makes sense. Is this an indication of victory? The previews for previous weeks showed the winners (Ryan last week and the hug between Ryan and Rupert the week before).


-aethelstan

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badger 1273 desperate attention whore postings
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10-24-03, 02:28 PM (EST)
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44. "RE: My Two Requirements"
LAST EDITED ON 10-24-03 AT 02:30 PM (EST)

blacknwhite dog said, "Also what I want to know is when do you think the ghosties were told they were going back into the game?"

it had better been from the moment they walked down loser lane. they had better not have had a chance to relax, unwind, shower, eat food other than what the tribes have, sleep on a mattress, change clothes, call home.

grrrrrrr

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10-24-03, 02:37 PM (EST)
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45. "RE: My Two Requirements"
it had better been from the moment they walked down loser lane. they had better not have had a chance to relax, unwind, shower, eat food other than what the tribes have, sleep on a
mattress, change clothes, call home.

It was.

They show up in the previews wearing the same clothes they were wearing when they left the game. And this is from the "Accidental Tourist" report:

Those early days at Perico were no picnic for booted castaways. Their food intake was limited, soft drinks and alcohol were off limits and they were made to exercise their little hearts out. This is radically different from previous editions when ousted players had a nice loserís vacation. The bootees may be out, but the game is clearly still on.

...

An older woman wins and returns to the game. This is the reason for the spare rations and harsh conditions at the Ponderosa. Once this contest is decided, the double losers finally get a vacation - and presumably better rations - at the Gamboa resort.

http://www.survivornews.net/news.php?id=89


We really do have guidelines here. Believe it or not, the Guidelines make things more fun. Really.

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10-24-03, 02:53 PM (EST)
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46. "RE: My Two Requirements"
LAST EDITED ON 10-24-03 AT 04:41 PM (EST)

OK then maybe my point "A" above is not totally accurate, but the ghosties sure do look clean and happy in the pics of their return, even in their old clothes. Plus they have not really had to have their game face on for several days- I think they will be somewhat refreshed compared to the other tribes, no?


Another quality Ice Cat creation 2003

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katethegreat 207 desperate attention whore postings
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10-25-03, 09:19 AM (EST)
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51. "RE: My Two Requirements"
I agree. The ghosties are sleeping in shelters of some kind. They probably have running water, rather than hiking to the well. They aren't having to make and maintain a fire to cook all of their meals. Obviously, because otherwise, Nicole's first three days by herself would have resulted in death! They are not competing at RC's and IC's. They may be exercising and not eating much, but I still think they are getting more luxuries than the living survivors.

I don't like this return. I am hoping that only one, at most, of ghost gets to actually return to the live game. I prefer Lil to Trish, personality wise, so I will root for her. It is unfair that some people (i.e. first six bootees) get a second chance, while remainder won't get a second chance. Otherwise, create a loser's bracket from Day One.

Also, I don't want returnee (like Lil) being able to choose who goes. Hello, the TRIBE has spoken, not one person. One person only gets the power of swing vote when they have earned it within the tribe dynamics. IC winner doesn't normally say "OK, you lose, so and so". Not fair at this point.

If this works out so that I think "Wow, that was pretty good!" I'll be surprised, but I'm not totally discounting the possibility. So far, this has been a GREAT season; I have liked almost everyone for at least a moment (except no Osten moments, none at all . . .). I like these people a lot more than most seasons, overall. Either better editing or better casting.

But to bring snuffed members back is NOT fair, since some will have their torches snuffed twice.

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badger 1273 desperate attention whore postings
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10-24-03, 03:51 PM (EST)
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47. "yet another scenario"
perhaps with all the excitement and bru-ha-ha that i foresee going into next week's episode, and with all the explanation and justification and assurance that MB is going to have to give for folks to swallow this "twist," there will be no time for a boot during episode 7.

so what follows is (yet) one (more) possible way the addition of more players might unfold, so that by the end of episode 8, we are still down to 8 remaining players, as we would be without the twist. (i am working with the assumption here, that MB and crew are going to keep "on schedule" with a total of 13 shows)

OK, at the beginning of episode 7, we have 10 players.

But the ghost twist brings the numbers back to 16. The ghosties sit someone out (nicole?), so the competition takes place in teams of 5.

Now, I think this competition probably has a penalty/reward attached based on first, second, and third places respectively (thank to whomever i am pirating this idea from!). perhaps the ghosties' reward/penalty is slightly different from the morgan and drakes.

i think the ghosts win and have some sort of individual competition whereupon (is that a word?) the winner gains reentry.

drake and morgan lose (not sure who's in second, and who's in third) and must vote out one or two members (to clarify, the team who comes in second loses 1 person, and the team who comes in last loses 2)

So by the end of episode 8, the numbers are as follows

ghosts start with 6, end up with 1 (lil)
morgan starts with 5, ends up with either 4 or 3
drake starts with 5, ends up with either 4 or 3

this scenario could certainly fulfill the "rhino gets burned by the twist" spoiler, particularly if morgan has to choose 2 folks to go (he and osten?)

and if it's drake that has to boot out 2, perhaps jon and shawn leave together, fulfilling the "jon and shawn fly out together" spoiler?

one final thought on this. has MB said anything about the makeup of the jury this year? i wonder how many are voting -- perhaps since everyone has had the chance to reenter the game that everyone might have the chance to vote on the final survivor??

(hack away. i'm always wrong.)

-badger

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10-24-03, 04:37 PM (EST)
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48. "RE: yet another scenario"
LAST EDITED ON 10-24-03 AT 04:48 PM (EST)

OK this is supposed to the first of a two-part episode, so maybe you're right and no one gets booted off next week. Maybe like it was mentioned before, this challenge is for the ghosties to be able to return- if they win- they are able to return to the game. It sure looks like they're ahead and it sure looks like Morgan loses based on Osten's pic.

Maybe some yet-to-be revealed challenge makes is possible for Morgan or Drake to win back some of the ghosties to their tribe.


Another quality Ice Cat creation 2003

Edited to say: whatever happened to the darn PELICAN!

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10-24-03, 04:53 PM (EST)
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49. "RE: How would logistics work in case of multiple returned players?"
Now that we know:
A. All 6 Losers come back and
2. The next episode is a two parter.

I propose this.

Episode 7A
The Ghosts come back and we have the prison break challenge.
One team wins, two team lose.
The losing teams each vote off a member.

Then we do the "run into the ocean and retrieve something off the bottom" challenge.
One team wins, two team lose.
The losing teams each vote off a member.

End of 7A

Episode 7B
Then we do the "fill in the blank" challenge.
One team wins, two team lose.
The losing teams each vote off a member.

Now we are down to 10 members so we merge.
Next we have an indivdual immunity challenge, a tribal council, one person goes home.

Now we are down to 9 players and right on track.


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10-24-03, 10:30 PM (EST)
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50. "RE: How would logistics work in case of multiple returned players?"
After seeing the Balboa camp on the map in an earlier thread, it seems rather strange to set up a whole camp for a tribe that might only be around for the two-part episode. It seems like a more permanent arrangement. What if the GT stays as a full time 3rd tribe? All 3 tribes compete for RC and IC. However, the 2 losing tribes both go to TC where two people are voted off. This would keep the time frame intact. It doesn't even have to be two separate TCs, both tribes can show up together and vote. Since there is no merge this way, the strongest players don't get voted off (which I always thought unfair if the most worthy player happened to be strong as well he/she was doomed because of the upcoming merge). Having to compete against two tribes makes them think twice about who to vote off, and should get rid of the dead weight players. Voting at the Two-Tribe TC can open the doors to vote off someone from the other tribe, you don't have to decimate your own. If Balboa is at TC with one of the other tribes, the alliances or dislike of a Balboa member could influence who they vote off. The same if Drake and Morgan are at TC - they could vote off a member of the opposing team to benefit their own.

Having the voted off players return should eliminate any desire to throw a challenge - the original tribes won't want to take a chance of having their 'rejected' former members have a chance at winning, while the returnees will work like demons to stay in the game - it's their reprieve for a chance at the million.

At some point, one of the tribes will only have 2 members, which presents a problem. I haven't yet figured out a way around that, unless there's a chance to kidnap someone from another tribe at the RC again to even the numbers for as long as possible (I'm thinking that the Rupert trade earlier was really a hint at what's to come later on).

Another spoiler suggested a live vote after the final episode allowing every member to vote. If this is the case, then there's really no need for a jury. The 3 team scenario, with 2 going to TC each time would make a jury almost impossible, or at least impractical, so a live vote at the end with everyone participating would make sense.


In her chat, Trish said: " Keep watching the show, there's lots of new twists and turns coming up that you won't expect, and this truly is the best Survivor of all." How many more possible twists and turns can there be? A three tribe game would certainly be a good one, leaving lots of room for more of the unexpected.

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10-25-03, 11:13 AM (EST)
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53. "Osten and Sandra"
Where I am all confused is with this Lil and Darrah final 2. Everything I heard re: the gambling spoilers (which I always believe to be the most accurate as people always put their money where their mouth is)... has a final 2 of Osten and Sandra. This would probably mean that Lil doesn't return to the game other than to spill the beans. Maybe she bad mouths Andrew and gets Osten to doubt him. I think that Osten is a major player and we haven't seen yet how he will turn on the rest of his tribe. As for the ghosties, they are merely there to scare the survivors and make the viewers think that secrets will come out. Everyone on that island except for possibly Darrah has been responsible for backstabbing a ghostie. So hopefully its just a ploy to stir the pot and thats it. I guess my point is that if the gambling spoiler is right Lil does not return.
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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"

10-25-03, 11:42 AM (EST)
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54. "RE: Osten and Sandra"
What The..." Part 2 of 2. Castaways react to the curse of the Pearl Islands; one tribe hosts a wedding.
(end of listing)


Part Two meaning no merge because ONE tribe hosts a wedding (since this thread is about the ghost tribe, not the "wedding" I put this in the teasers to discuss.

One Tribe as of November 6 therefore either it is still separate tribes OR they are being little devils and calling the merged tribe ONE tribe making us think they are still separated.

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udg 3381 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"

10-25-03, 04:32 PM (EST)
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55. "Probably not, but what about this..."
I really like the idea of the first 10 people across the finish line "winning" the challenge. What if any Drake or Morgan members who aren't in the first 10 get kidnapped by the Ghost tribe and can't help their teammates in the IC?
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