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"Jenna won the moment she wrote R-O-B"
bergdogg 380 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host"
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05-12-03, 02:15 AM (EST)
 
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"Jenna won the moment she wrote R-O-B" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-12-03 AT 02:26 AM (EST)Jenna did deserve it IMO, since you don't get their by just being lucky. There is some strategy involved, and riding coattails has worked before and will work for Survivors to come. The truth is though, I feel that Jenna won it the second she wrote Rob's name down. The members of the jury just were not a Matt jury. None of them took him as a serious contender, and I was kinda stunned most of the season that most of us did. He was Rob's puppet, and that was it. The jury saw it my way as well. -Rob: was never going to vote for his puppet, and as a fan of reality TV, appreciated a good game and desire to win at the IC's over Matt grasping onto his coattails. Matt was to Rob like Amber was to Jerri. -Butch: The only person who saw this game like most of the spoiling world. looked more at the actions at camp that at the actual game. -Heidi: Voted for her friend even though she didn't give her a verbal BJ. -Christy: Doesn't like Jenna, but respects the way she survived the guys at the end. Respect will get you a vote over hatred during the game. Besides, after the game, I believe she realized that it wasn't real life, and that it was just a game. -Alex: Picked a hot chick over a psycho. -Deena: Respected Jenna's game and final 3 days, and didn't want to give Rob's lamb the money. -Dave: Asked a horrible question!!!! Maybe that was his plan, but god if it wasn't!! I have a feeling he was picking Jenna all along, since he spent some quality time with her on day 13. So there ya go. I think I am right on this. Disagree or think there is more to it, post away.  Minnesota sports: Proving the underdogs can truly succeed!!!
Edited for a stupid error.
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dajaki 1454 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson"
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05-12-03, 02:43 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: Jenna won the moment she wrote R-O-B" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-12-03 AT 02:45 AM (EST)Rob: Had contempt for Matt because Matt got in this game that he had absolutely no clue how to play. He never thought, and perhaps rightly, that Matt would dare to make a strategic move without first consulting Rob. Matt should have outlined for the jury what his strategy was and how he executed it. Even if it had all been crap, at least it would have given them something to think about. Butch: Was always out of the loop and rarely thought about strategy, even in his jury vote. Heidi: No mystery here. Laughed my ass off when Jenna didn't say that Heidi deserved to be in the F2.
Jenna: Rob should be here.
Heidi: But is there anyone else?
Jenna: Alex played really hard, too, and would be a good F2 person.
Heidi: What about women? Are there any women on the jury who should be in the F2?
Jenna: Well, Deena really worked strategy well. She should have made the final 2.
Heidi: I meant young women.
Jenna: Christy was a tough competitor who overcame a lot. She earned a spot in the F2.
Heidi: I meant a young, good-looking woman with a great body.
Jenna: Heidi, I am in the Final 2, you big goof! (rolls eyes) Christy: At least in the reunion she said she voted for Jenna because Jenna outplayed, outwitted and outlasted her. The purest reason to vote for someone. Alex: He's a sucker for the ladies. Deena: She voted for Jenna because she respected the fact that Jenna played the game, whereas Matt seemingly hung onto Rob's coattails. Dave: I think he voted for Jenna because she isn't as intelligent as he is. Matt has a Cornell education and is mentally and physically threatening to Dave. Dave wanted the last shot in this pissing contest. And what was up with his question? Who thinks about world leaders while they're playing Survivor? What a doofus. My answer would have been, "Well Dave, I played like Margaret Thatcher because I'm female, I played like Bill Clinton because I discarded the truth when it was advantageous, I played like George W. Bush because I was ruthless when I had to be, I played like Ghandi because I spent a lot of time meditating on strategy, and I played like Douglas MacArthur because I kicked ass and took names." And just a note about the final questions and answers. Mateo is a unique individual. He has always been a bit of a loner, fair in one-on-one situations, but groups make him uncomfortable. Jenna, on the other hand, is a master at social situations. She knew how to communicate to the jury and Matt did not. I think this may have swayed at least one vote her way.
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dajaki 1454 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson"
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05-12-03, 11:27 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: Jenna won the moment she wrote R-O-B" |
I don't think I heard Deena say this during the whole game (sarcasm dripping), but don't ever, ever underestimate the power of a woman!
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DRONES 615 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
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05-12-03, 03:30 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: Jenna won the moment she wrote R-O-B" |
Deena was going to vote for a woman in the final if pitted against a male. She was the female version of Roger, just funnier, and more subltle.Heidi and Alex were a gimme for Jenna. Butch, was no surprise that he was going to vote for Matt. Christy is a complete shock. Rob was somewhat of a shock. Who knew with Dave. He always though very highly of himself and was probably very resentful of the men turning on his original alliance and causing his ultimate ouster, so it wouldn't surprise me that his vote was more against Matt than it was for Jenna.
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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-12-03, 11:12 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: Jenna won the moment she wrote R-O-B" |
Dave's question was truly moronic. I suspected Matt might lose just because he tried to answer it.The members of the jury just were not a Matt jury. None of them took him as a serious contender, and I was kinda stunned most of the season that most of us did. He was Rob's puppet, and that was it. The jury saw it my way as well. I'd have to agree with this. The viewers were shown Matt's strategic thinking toward the end, but we spoilers neglected to realize that the other players might not ever see it. Matt didn't play up any of his own strategies at TC and even talked about learning from Rob's "tutelage". It made him look like a coattail rider exclusively -- he didn't even persuade Rob that he deserved to win. And despite the somewhat negative editing Jenna often received, she was obviously personally popular with the other players. In the end Matt was still perceived as the weirdo loner.
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destrangis 1 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
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05-13-03, 00:18 AM (EST)
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31. "RE: Jenna won the moment she wrote R-O-B" |
I think Rob and Matt were carrying each other the moment they made an alliance: Matt was good with the physical challenges and Rob was good with the strategies. In the IC of the final 4, a strategy game, Rob helped out Matt and Jeff even commented on it, so you could say that Rob did his part in pushing Matt to the final 2. But, when the final IC came and it was a physical challenge in which I think Matt could have outlasted the other two easily, he gave up way too fast, so I think he betrayed Rob and their alliance at that point. Besides, after Jenna won that second-last IC, didn't Matt come to talk to Jenna about voting off Rob instead of Butch?? I was cooking dinner at that moment, so I'm not sure if I heard right, but if I did, it would make sense that at the end, Matt wouldn't make an effort to win the final IC which would have saved Rob. That would make it all very ironic, because Rob betrayed many people, but I think Matt was the only one person Rob trusted in this game. Et tu brutus??Also, I believe that almost everyone, when they thought about Matt, they thought he'd be a safest player to go against in the final two, even Rob a few weeks ago admitted that if he were to take Matt along, it'd be to guarantee a win, since nobody liked him, even more so than they disliked Rob himself. So, when Jeff asked Jenna, before casting her final vote, what kind of person she would choose to have with her in the final 2, she said that it'd be someone that she couldn't beat easily, when in fact, by choosing Matt, she chose the person easiest to beat in front of that jury. Well, come to think of it, had she played against Rob, she would have won all the same, but I don't think she would have got as many votes.
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XXX Survivor 10 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson"
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05-13-03, 10:41 PM (EST)
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43. "RE: Jenna won the moment she wrote R-O-B" |
Thanks for that insight. Until now, I could not think of one "logical" reason for Rob's vote for Jenna over Matt. However, your theory makes sense. Matt's throwing of the challenge was not masked very well. It appeared obvious, and Rob probably recognized this.
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Boilermaker 260 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
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05-12-03, 11:28 AM (EST)
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7. "Dave's Question was Great!!!" |
As soon as I saw Dave ask his question and heard the answer from Jenna and Matt, I knew that he got the answers that he was looking for. He had said previously that he was going to ask a question and see who talked out of their ass and who actually responded truthfully.Matt answered "Collin Powell" and couldn't really explain why he played the game or acted most like Collin Powell. He was speaking out of his ass. Jenna honestly answered that she didn't know who she played like or had tried to act like, and used an example of her mother for playing tough and perserving. Dave simply asked the question to see which one was going to be honest and down to earth in the response. This is the person that he could relate to. And unbelievably it wasn't the Cornell educated Matthew, it was the swimsuit model Jenna. 
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managerr 1959 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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05-12-03, 12:20 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Dave's Question was Great!!!" |
Matt should have explained more, but his answer is right on. His answer fit with Colen's Powell's Action Principle:"Organization doesn't really accomplish anything. Plans don't accomplish anything, either. Theories of management don't much matter. Endeavors succeed or fail because of the people involved. Only by attracting the best people will you accomplish great deeds. Look for intelligence and judgment and, most critically, a capacity to anticipate, to see around corners. Also look for loyalty, integrity, a high-energy drive, a balanced ego and the drive to get things done. Surround yourself with people who take their work seriously, but not themselves, those who work hard and play hard!" I.e. Versatility was the key to victory. Honestly, that is how Matt was playing the game, it's not a bs answer at all.
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tspitzen 6 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
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05-12-03, 05:03 PM (EST)
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27. "RE: Dave's Question was Great!!!" |
Matt should have said someone like Attila the Hun or Gingus Khan, because they both understood the importance having a sharp knife.
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XXX Survivor 10 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson"
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05-13-03, 11:04 PM (EST)
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45. "RE: Dave's Question was Great!!!" |
On Dave's question, the person who went second would have an advantage no matter what so Matt got screwed in that sense. Of course, the answer probably only affected Dave's vote. I assume the others voted for Jenna for other reasons (as random as some of them were).
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-12-03, 12:25 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Jenna won the moment she wrote R-O-B" |
I am not surprised Jenna won. I am stunned by the 6-1 shellacking she administered to Matteo.I am totally stunned that Christy voted for Jenna. I heard her explanation on the reunion show, and I don't buy it. In a way, this really lessens my respect for Christy; then again, what did she have against Matteo that we don't know about? I'm somewhat surprised at Rob's decision. After all, Jenna personally booted Rob, after brutally shooting down his overtures for a deal. She undermined all his work. I am not surprised at Dave. He spent time with Jenna at their little rendezvous, and he was always on the wrong side of whatever alliances were working vis-a-vis Matt. Denna, Alex, Heidi, Butch-- obviously no surprise at their respective choices. Apparently Matt was not respected for his hard work, nor was he apparently liked all that much. Maybe winning the car hurt his chances. Maybe his closing speech hurt him. I didn't think either played did well in the Final questioning.   
Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-12-03, 12:44 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Jenna won the moment she wrote R-O-B" |
I was very surprised by the 6-1 victory too, Dawg.Christy's vote for Jenna and her explanation of it make me think that she really didn't get to know or like anyone the whole time she was there. Whatever bad vibes she got from Jenna, apparently Matthew did not make enough of an impression on her to counteract it. I couldn't figure out what Rob's deal was. He seemed annoyed by Matthew's answer to his question, but I didn't see why he should be. In the pre-vote confessionals, he spoke negatively of both Matt and Jenna. Rob prided himself on being able to read everyone throughout the game, so maybe he was just pissed that Matthew wasn't quite as clueless as Rob thought he was. I didn't think either player did well in the Final questioning Actually I thought Jenna did very well and was even, dare I say it, pleasantly surprised by it. She came across relatively humble compared to what I expected. I thought Matt did okay too, but I tend to think that most, if not all, of the jury had made up their minds already before the TC started.
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bwolpert 4 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
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05-12-03, 04:32 PM (EST)
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26. "RE: Jenna won the moment she wrote R-O-B" |
I don't think it would be a good idea to have the jury vote after watching the season because then no one could be completely honest to the camera in their testimonials, etc.
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frisky 11695 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-12-03, 11:01 PM (EST)
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29. "RE: Jenna won the moment she wrote R-O-B" |
UGH! Memories of BB3, while my S6 wounds are still fresh. Have mercy, people.
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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-12-03, 03:57 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: Rob believes Matt is only there because of him" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-13-03 AT 11:44 AM (EST)Rob has no respect for Matthew because he feels that he dragged him to the Final 4 with him and that Matthew never actually performed any strategy to get him where he was. The thing is, in the pre-vote confessional, Rob said that both people that made the Final 2 were liars and deceivers (or something like that). Why would Rob feel that Matt was deceptive, if he thought Matt just got to the end due to Rob's efforts? Matt didn't overtly backstab Rob. Was Matt supposed to try hard to win the Final IC so he could take Rob to F2? Did Rob figure out that Matt threw the IC and hold that against him? I just didn't understand Rob's attitude toward Matt once he got voted out. Edited to add: Well, the answer is in AnotherKim's thread about attending the finale. She got to talk to Rob and Rob said Matt lost (Rob's vote, I assume) because he fell off the perch. So I guess Rob does feel that Matt screwed him.
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DoodleBug 5133 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-12-03, 02:02 PM (EST)
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17. "Jury Time" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-12-03 AT 02:31 PM (EST)LAST EDITED ON 05-12-03 AT 02:04 PM (EST) Does anyone know if the jury can discuss the final two before the final vote? What I'm getting at is maybe there was some campaigning going on for Jenna. Dave, Deena and Alex had a lot of time together to think about this. Maybe Christy was swayed by their thoughts? I don't know. Christy had a few days to calm down and think about her vote after the "evil stepsisters" voted her off. At least the most evil Heidi was gone - maybe that eased her pain.... Just a thought.... anyone know if the jury members can discuss what happend at tribal council on their time off? Edited for clarification and to say - I'm just trying to figure out WHY some of these people voted for Jenna.
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tamarama 1785 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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05-12-03, 03:41 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: Jury Time" |
>>Does anyone know if the jury can discuss the final two before the final vote? What I'm getting at is maybe there was some campaigning going on for Jenna. Dave, Deena and Alex had a lot of time together to think about this. Maybe Christy was swayed by their thoughts?<<I think they do talk about it -- alot! We saw some evidence when Alex & Christy reacted to Heidi's boot. As for Christy's vote, she showed throughout the game that she would sway whichever way the wind blew...the one time she had to decide on her own, she wouldn't -- and got booted. So, flash forward to the jury, and she's back with her first pseudo-ally, Deena. I was completely SHOCKED that Christy voted for Jenna, but I think it's because I underestimated two important things -- Deena's knee-jerk feminism and Christy's need for a leader.
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mavsfan 693 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
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05-13-03, 01:25 AM (EST)
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33. "Insecurity & social skills" |
Rob showed time and again that he would hold a grudge, and that he was insecure around stronger males. So it shouldn't have been a suprise that as Matt grew as a player/threat, and then threw the last challenge (costing Rob a final 2 seat), that he lost Robs vote.The 6-1 landslide points out the balancing act between being a work horse vs socializing. It seems to me, frequently work horses are voted out early in the game because they fail to bond with the rest of the tribe and in fact often times alienate the rest of the tribes. Butch and Matt were work horses but probably couldn't win.
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Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-13-03, 11:03 AM (EST)
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36. "RE: Jenna won the moment she wrote R-O-B" |
I think in the end Rob was the same as he was throughout the game. He did resent the males that he thought were more popular or stronger at the game. He was under the impression that he controlled Matt and Matt was clueless. So I don't think Rob could live with the fact that Matt may win the million. Just like he didn't like to think of the other guys getting the girl, he didn't want them to get the million over him either. So he'd rather give it to the girl that had actually booted him. Rob was still that little boy in the basement at his parents' resenting the boys that did better than him.How Dave could think Jenna played like she deserved to win when she blabbed the entire tribe dynamics to him at their overnight, is beyond me. Dave wanted to vote for what he called the hot chick rather than the guy in an alliance that booted him. Deena was going to vote for a female if there was one in the final. And I think she dragged Christy along with this opinion. I really wonder if Deena would have voted this way if she had seen all the "fat pig" remarks by Jenna before she voted? In fact I wonder how many wished they could change their votes after watching the show? Jenna was like Brian in a way. She could be nice to their face and cruel without reason behind it. Interesting that most of us thought that Jenna would be the one that would have never given up the family visit for the others. But yet she wins the votes over the man that did the selfless thing. I believe Matt needed to give a better explanation of his game playing at TC. He tried to hard to be modest. When he should have explained what all he was doing behind the scenes. Meanwhile lazy Jenna acted like she really deserved the win. The jury didn't see everything we did. Too bad.
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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-13-03, 01:33 PM (EST)
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40. "RE: Jenna won the moment she wrote R-O-B" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-13-03 AT 01:34 PM (EST)I believe Matt needed to give a better explanation of his game playing at TC. He tried to hard to be modest. When he should have explained what all he was doing behind the scenes. I thought so too, Loree, immediately afterward, but now I think even that wouldn't have helped, because the jury simply would not have believed him. Alex was shaking his head at one point when Matt was talking about his approach to the game. The only people Matt ever strategized with were Rob and Butch (and Jenna at the very end). Rob could surely see that Matt was "playing" toward the end of the game, but it still couldn't negate his attitude that Matt was a spaz, that Rob had been responsible for Matt making it that far. Rob couldn't bring himself to see Matt as more deserving to win than himself. With Jenna, however, he may have felt a twinge of guilt about breaking their alliance, in addition to admiring her determination at the end. As far as Dave, Deena and Alex were concerned, Matt was just an antisocial, clueless weirdo. They never saw him strategize to do anything, and they couldn't believe he made it to the Final 2. Christy probably wasn't aware of any scheming Matt did either, because it was always Rob who tried to pull her into the vote toward the end.
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Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-14-03, 11:26 AM (EST)
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46. "RE: Jenna: a gracious champion, a whiny survivor" |
I never really liked Brian. But at least I felt he deserved the win. He was The Player of the last Survivor. But Jenna came off as too whiny and thought she deserved it because of her looks. Even the IC she won were often given to her. She was given the win in the machete chop because they wanted to boot Dave and thought Jenna wasn't a threat. Matt threw several challenges. Often Jenna won because others gave it to her. She seemed to float through the series this way. That is why it gives me a sour feeling. I like when the winner seems to deserve it more. Even if I don't like the person. I never liked Richard Hatch either. But he deserved to win. Oh well... on to Panama.
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)and I'm sure they had plenty to say about the people who were still in the game. Christy didn't do well when it came to making her own decisions about voting. I have no doubt that Deena influenced her. 