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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-10-02, 07:20 AM (EST) "MB's editing, and the finale" First, I'd like to ask that this post not be locked right away. There will be some coverge of events discussed in other threads, but this topic is primarily about MB's editing. Background: The "Hollow" theory I've espoused in the past is based on an Agatha Christie book "The Hollow". In that book, Detective Hercule Poirot came upon a woman standing by the pool with a smoking gun in her hand, her dead husband in the pool (or in later versions, lying dead next to the pool). As Poirot followed the clues, it seemed that everyone was eager to take credit for the murder, and Poirot followed many paths of clues before realizing the truth. The Truth was "hiding in plain sight." MB's editing is the same way. Usually, he misdirects with his editing, sending us down a trail that ultimately leads AWAY from the truth. And therein lies a clue in itself. I do almost all of my spoiling from MB's editing. However, in Survivor 5, MB has been giving us everything. He's hiding things in plain sight. He gave us Ghandia on a silver platter. He pretty much showed us Jed, Steph and Dood's impending doom. He has allowed leaks like never before. Only in the case of Erin has the truth been well-concealed, and I'm becoming convinced that THAT is because Erin simply provided nothing of value to show (besides her fluffypillows, of course ) And we have TDT's declaration of the final 2, which I put considerable stock in. We'll go from that with our hypotheses here. We've been shown Helen and Brian in something of an alliance. They've been shown talking many times. Attempts to misdirect, such as Helen being upset with Brian's home and cars, seem to contradict what appears to be her alliance with him, and her telling her husband how straight-up Brian is. And you KNOW how I feel about contradictions. Helen really SHOULD be working to wax Brian as well as Clay, but she's being the Amber of Survivor V by not taking advantage of a HUGE opportunity available to her. Brian is like the "Colby" keeping Helen ("Amber") in line. Yet another hint. We've been shown Ted on the margins of the Brian/Clay alliance. Clay helped Brian instead of Ted, brutally and blatantly showing disregard for Ted. Not only did this show the alliance, it may be a setup of why Ted votes for Brian over Clay at the end. Ted has been shown complaining about being on the margins. Some of it was to misdirect during a particular show, but in the larger picture, it's more "hiding in plain sight." We've been shown the Brian/Clay alliance(!). However, that has not been played up very much recently. Except for Brian vetoing Helen's strong desire to wax Clay, we haven't seen much of Brian and Clay. But we HAVE seen them both make remarks to and about women that are sure to be... shall we say.. controversial. All these are subtle hints that these guys are in league. We've been shown, albeit "in the background", that Ted and Jan have something of an alliance. As noted in the thresd on the subject, they sit together at TC, and they are next to each other in challenges. And they are seen talking together in camp. Helen and Clay's antagonism has been shown throughout the series. They clearly don't like each other. Of course, Helen doesn't seem to like anyone outside of Brian, but she REALLY doesn't like Clay, and the feeling is reciprocated by Clay. So I think MB has hidden the truth in plain sight, rather than blatantly misdirect us. I also think that MB has been working on Survivor VI, and his "crack" staff has been doing a lot of the editing. This leads me to the following conclusion: Jan is next to go (5th). TED, not Helen, will be fourth. He must be gotten rid of before immunity threats are realized at the end. Helen is third. I suspect that Clay wins the final IC and takes great pleasure in personally waxing Helen. Final two: Brian will easily win over Clay. It could even be 7-0 (although Ted is a bit up in the air). Feel free to debate this thoroughly. Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: MB's editing, and the finale evilj9 12-10-02 1    RE: MB's editing, and the finale lizzmac 12-10-02 7  RE: MB's editing, and the finale Q 12-10-02 2    DAW Post clemsonbeav 12-11-02 16  RE: MB's editing, and the finale Spidey 12-10-02 3    RE: MB's editing, and the finale dabo 12-11-02 17  RE: MB's editing, and the finale Bebo 12-10-02 4    RE: MB's editing, and the finale SurvivinDawg 12-10-02 5        RE: MB's editing, and the finale MakeItStop 12-10-02 12    Brian/Clay F2 dajaki 12-10-02 9  RE: MB's editing, and the finale jsanb 12-10-02 6    RE: MB's editing, and the finale SurvivinDawg 12-10-02 8        RE: MB's editing, and the finale Brownroach 12-10-02 10            RE: MB's editing, and the finale SurvivinDawg 12-10-02 11                RE: MB's editing, and the finale Brownroach 12-10-02 13  why Jan at least makes the final fo... survivorscott 12-10-02 14  RE: MB's editing, and the finale SaphireLady 12-11-02 15

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evilj9 29 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 12-10-02, 10:33 AM (EST) 1. "RE: MB's editing, and the finale" Dawg, I agree. MB has put it in our faces all season. If Brian is smart, the most important thing he could do at this stage in the game is to make sure he doesn't stab anyone in the back. The only way to accomplish that is to let Jan go next (she won't be upset since her main goal was to make the jury),followed by Ted. If he can orchestrate the votes against Ted, while not actually voting for him, Ted won't feel betrayed, and Brian will secure Ted's vote for Brian over either Helen or Clay in the final two. Once Ted is gone, his only hope is to lose immunity and pray that the immunity winner honors their agreement. If he wins immunity, he will ultimately betray either Helen or Clay and lose their vote.   Top

lizzmac 131 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 12-10-02, 01:34 PM (EST) 7. "RE: MB's editing, and the finale" >Dawg, I agree. MB has >put it in our faces >all season. > >If Brian is smart, the most >important thing he could do >at this stage in the >game is to make sure >he doesn't stab anyone in >the back. The only >way to accomplish that is >to let Jan go next >(she won't be upset since >her main goal was to >make the jury),followed by Ted. > If he can orchestrate >the votes against Ted, while >not actually voting for him, >Ted won't feel betrayed, I agree for the most part, except this last bit here -- there's no way Brian could do this at F4 and have Ted not know about it, just because of the numbers involved. Brian can't vote with Ted as a red herring, because that'll leave a tie. Even if he were willing to leave it to chance - and at that point, I don't think he'd do that - the other two might realize they'd been duped, even considering it independently. That's why I think Ted (or possibly Helen) goes this week. Brian can "hide" his orchestrations behind the other three (Jan, Clay and Ted/Helen), and bootee Ted/Helen would harbor no ill will personally towards Brian. Lizzmac   Top

Q 2569 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson" 12-10-02, 11:13 AM (EST) 2. "RE: MB's editing, and the finale" Agree with a lot of it Dawg, First let me say I just saw the show on Mon. Night. I as a Raleigh, NC resident had no power since Wed. night. I had a friend in NYC tape and FedEx the show to me and I watched it last night. I also just got to work again, so have not been tot he boards either. I got such a vibe off of Brian when Helen was gunning for Clay. He had the wheels turning in his head about who really can win this game against him. He is seeing Helen as a major player out to win (as is Clay), but with Penny/Erin on the Jury, She may get votes from them. But Clay would not = I win the million against Clay, not Helen. Then as you said, Ted must also go due to immunity threat reasons, as well as to tidy up alliances no longer in effect. But he has to have Clay appear to be the one doing the backstabbing against Ted, not him = Brian getting Teds vote, not Clay. Jan is my one ? regardless of spoilers out there, I just think she may be used for at least one vote cycle prior to booting her. Not sure how though. Oh well just my first impressions. To Bebo, and other NC DAWS: How did you guys fare the storm? When did you get power back? Hope you are doing well.   Top

clemsonbeav 4208 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 12-11-02, 09:38 AM (EST) 16. "DAW Post" I was lucky enough not to have the power go off in my dorm here at Clemson, however Clemson was probably hit the least out of upstate SC. Some places finally regained power yesterday! Ok, I'm finished DAWing.   Top

Spidey 6259 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-10-02, 11:34 AM (EST) 3. "RE: MB's editing, and the finale" Just to buttress your point about us being given everything, we have been given most of the recent individual reward winners in previews. Clay pumping his arm, Helen in Family RC. Only misdirect was Jan in torch snuffing. What I seen hiding in plain sight is also a Jan boot this week. She is the only one Brian doesn't have F2 pact with, so he can't risk her getting too far. And he won't allow Clay to go, as we know. Helen and Ted would each vote out Jan before each other, evidenced by the writing in the sand. I am guessing Clay wins immunity, otherwise Helen, Ted and Jan could easily get together and boot him, which doesn't happen (unless we've all been rooked). Either that, or they are just plain dumb. An IceCat Original, 2002   Top

dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-11-02, 10:06 AM (EST) 17. "RE: MB's editing, and the finale" >Either >that, or they are just >plain dumb. I wouldn't rule that out, Spidey. Frankly, at this point in the game, I think the smart player will try to organize the ouster of his/her biggest final two threat. Jan is well liked by everyone, it seems, and perhaps because she hasn't really been seen as an active player in the game (this in itself could be considered a smart strategy). If we combine this with the TDT spoiler of a Brian/Clay finale, and the fact that Jan once instigated a vote against Clay (when Ghandia tried to instigate a vote against Ted), Brian could very well see her as the best person to take out of the game at this point (assuming he plans to take Clay to the F2). ARRRRRRR!!!!   Top

Bebo 21083 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-10-02, 11:59 AM (EST) 4. "RE: MB's editing, and the finale" In agreement with a number of things, but reversing your first two boots. Per Jake's chat, Jan just wanted to make the jury. She's gotten her goal, so she's the least likely of the remaining five to try and manipulate the pecking order. She's therefore the safest one to keep around. Meanwhile, Ted is an immunity threat, which is confirmed by Ted's comment in the previews about his strength. If he wins the reward challenge (which is hinted at my pics of everyone else in the backseat of a vehicle), that's two challenges in a row. We've already seen the beginning of Clay's maneuvering against Ted, so we've had it "hidden in plain sight" that he's Clay's first target. Right now, Helen is Kathy - the swing vote in the final five between 2 factions. She's admitted in the preview that she's playing both sides, and now she has to choose. Given the TDT final 2, we know she doesn't choose to go in with Jan and Ted. And would Clay lose to Brian 7-0? I don't think so. We've been shown him working Penny for her vote. We've been shown Ted's expectations of being in a final 2 with Brian - he may vote against Brian for betraying him (at least Clay was more upfront with Ted on where Ted fell in Clay's pecking order). Depending on how the end game goes, he could even win (no need to explain more here, there's a whole thread on that). Note to Q: Sorry it took you so long to get power! Ours was back Friday, and my sister had had it the night before, so we had a warm place to stay each night. And my sister never lost cable, so we all sat around watching Survivor Thursday night. Today's my first day back at my real office too - they had me in temporary quarters yesterday to support the systems.   Top

SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-10-02, 12:49 PM (EST) 5. "RE: MB's editing, and the finale" Glad to see you de-thawed after the ice storm, Bebo! The whole thing was bogus down here in Atlanta. And would Clay lose to Brian 7-0? I don't think so. We've been shown him working Penny for her vote. We've been shown Ted's expectations of being in a final 2 with Brian - he may vote against Brian for betraying him (at least Clay was more upfront with Ted on where Ted fell in Clay's pecking order). As was discussed in another thread, I think the Sook Jai's will vote as a bloc. Clay misdirected the Sook Jai's about who to vote for, Clay had an open disagreement with Jake (and showing us that was "hiding in plain sight" a reason to vote against Clay), and Clay was shown ("in plain sight") telling Erin how good her derriere looked, which gives us the impression of a "dirty old man." I suspect that Clay has grated on almost everyone's nerves at some point. Therefore, I think that the SJs vote en masse against Clay. Helen will vote against Clay, and Jan will likely fall in line and vote the way Helen and Jake vote. That leaves only Ted. P.S. You might well be right about Ted going next, but other spoilers and just a hnnch tell me that Ted goes one more week. Perhaps he wins Immunity again? Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged   Top

MakeItStop 1098 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest" 12-10-02, 04:54 PM (EST) 12. "RE: MB's editing, and the finale" and Clay was shown ("in plain sight") telling Erin how good her derriere looked, which gives us the impression of a "dirty old man." Dawg, there is no doubt that Clay did do this, but I remember a scene (I think it was in the recap) where Erin says to Clay that she hopes her ass isn't driving him crazy ... or something to that effect. I don't have a tape ... so this is the best that I can recall. Anyway, I remember being shocked when I heard/saw that scene. And it sure looked to me that Erin didn't mind the "attention". We've also seen Jan say that Clay is an ass man. And she also didn't seem to be bothered by it. So I have to wonder if his dirty old man ways bothers anyone besides us, the viewers. “She’s a beauty queen gone bad!” -- Marcellus about Amy.   Top

dajaki 1454 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson" 12-10-02, 02:21 PM (EST) 9. "Brian/Clay F2" I'm not a fan of either guy, but if it were me voting, I would choose Brian. He hasn't gotten on everyone's nerves like Clay has. Brian is a smooth operator (in a somewhat gross way) and is much more likely to keep his head and respond with tact when it comes to the final gauntlet of jury questions. His strategy has been much more subtle than Clay's. As much as I don't want to see him win, I would hate it even more if Clay won. Bebo, glad you were able to ride out the effects of the storm. Hope all is well. I've never been so glad to live in the sunny southwest.   Top

jsanb 178 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 12-10-02, 12:55 PM (EST) 6. "RE: MB's editing, and the finale" Dawg, great review of the current situation. I am certain that Brian is in the final 2, and wins this season in a blowout vote. But, I am not as certain that Clay is in the final pairing- I still have a lingering feeling that Ted is in the final two, and the key element that leads me there is the intro where Brian and Ted each have fire while everyone else has water. Every scenario I have I think Jan is next. There is no reason for Brian to string her along anymore, not to mention that the rejected SJ's might love to vote for Jan in a final vote to show up the leader of the CG's(Brian). He already has three players in Ted, Brian and Clay who all think they can make the finals with Brian. Also with the editing of last week's show, I tend to think that Helen loses the final challenge and the Immunity winner(Ted or Clay) picks Brian over Helen. Peanut Butter Jeff "If you thought S3 was bad just wait until S5."   Top

SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-10-02, 02:20 PM (EST) 8. "RE: MB's editing, and the finale" Correct me if I am wrong, but I think Shii Ann also had fire in the op. credits... Paratrooper was even speculating about it. However, Shii Ann will not be making the Final 3, so I'm not sure that fire is the answer there... "All of us necessarily hold many casual opinions that are ludicrously wrong simply because life is far too short for us to think through even a small fraction of the topics that we come across. -- Julian Simon Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged   Top

Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-10-02, 03:25 PM (EST) 10. "RE: MB's editing, and the finale" Yes, you are right, Dawg. Shii Ann, Brian and Ted have fire; Stephanie and Ghandia have glimmers of reflected flames; Penny has nothing; and everyone else gets doused with water. I don't recall ever seeing a comparison of black-and-white vs. color photos in the opening credits. I never really paid attention but it seems to me that all the SJ photos are in color, while all the CG photos are black-and-white -- except that Brian has a color photo (AND fire!). Make something out of that, if you like..or don't, if you like...   Top

SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-10-02, 03:45 PM (EST) 11. "RE: MB's editing, and the finale" I must admit that I've never put much stock into opening credits "spoiler" analysis. I remember the time someone said that an Aborigine's pic was a composite of SIX people. Then we had Maraarotu's magical colored boxes, and other similar name-order theories. I'll just stick to analysis of MB's editing, thankssomuch. Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged   Top

Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-10-02, 05:27 PM (EST) 13. "RE: MB's editing, and the finale" Maraarotu's Magical Colored Boxes!! --- OH. MY. GOD. I LOVED THOSE!!! Actually, I'm with you Dawg. I'm just surprised that no one tried to create a spoiler out of the pictures. I only noticed last week that some were in color and some black-and-white.   Top

survivorscott 2191 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Roller Coaster Inaugurator" 12-10-02, 10:46 PM (EST) 14. "why Jan at least makes the final four" Besides Snewsers beleif that she goes far possibly winning it. The local Tampa station is running an ad asking if people are planning a Survivor finale party, so they can come by and film them. They don't come out and say she is in the final four, but they do mention that she is still in the game quite freqently. Come in a stranger,leave a little stranger   Top

SaphireLady 2491 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Seventeen Magazine Model" 12-11-02, 00:20 AM (EST) 15. "RE: MB's editing, and the finale" What I did not read anyone talk about is the who drinks too much and spills their mental guts. We know Jan and Brian are drinkers. So which one will tip their hand? Since Jan's head is fairly empty it must be Brian and will that change things?   Top

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