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"Review of the 14 Nov. episode's editing"
SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
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11-15-02, 07:31 AM (EST)
 
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"Review of the 14 Nov. episode's editing" |
These are the observations I made about last night's (Nov. 14th) show's editing:During the first part of the show, Helen was shown A LOT. It seemed almost every little thing included a shot of Helen, so much so that I was thinking she was going to be the misdirection for the bootee (if not the bootee itself). I am thinking that Helen is being given air-time just prior to her boot, perhaps?!?! Also, Helen's disdain for anyone with money was made very apparent. Perhaps this is groundwork for a future conflict between Helen and other CGs. And in the latter part of the show, the focus was on Ted, but Clay was shown being conspiratorial with the SJs. Where was Penny? Suddenly, she disappeared! Jake was the one doing the manipulating, and Ken was shown a little bit, but you didn't see Evil Penny anywhere. At TC, Jake hugs Ken goodbye, a noble gesture that brings Jake attention to himself as a possible target. Penny sits there as if "who the heck is this guy we just voted off?" In earlier episodes, we've seen Penny be the SJ person who says "we're all out here for the million dollars", etc. It's PENNY that talks about the MONEY. Now, Penny is hidden. I suspect that Penny's actions are being hidden by MB for a reason... a deep endgame and possible million dollars for Penny? The Immunity "Necklace"... wearing it means you can't be voted out... but you can sure as hell pinprick yourself to death with it! I guess we can see now why Ken is a NYC cop and not a Nature Trail Guide. Add your observations as you see fit... 
"All of us necessarily hold many casual opinions that are ludicrously wrong simply because life is far too short for us to think through even a small fraction of the topics that we come across. -- Julian Simon Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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PepeLePew13 26134 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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11-15-02, 07:59 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: Review of the 14 Nov. episode's editing" |
>Where was Penny? Suddenly, she disappeared! Jake was the
>one doing the manipulating, and Ken was shown a little
>bit, but you didn't see Evil Penny anywhere. At
>TC, Jake hugs Ken goodbye, a noble gesture that brings
>Jake attention to himself as a possible target. Penny
>sits there as if "who the heck is this guy
>we just voted off?"
>
>In earlier episodes, we've seen Penny be the SJ person who
>says "we're all out here for the million dollars", etc.
> It's PENNY that talks about the MONEY. Now,
>Penny is hidden. I suspect that Penny's actions are
>being hidden by MB for a reason... a deep endgame
>and possible million dollars for Penny? I'm in total agreement with your assessment of Penny. I thought the same thing -- told my wife, "was Penny even in the show tonight?" and she said "yeah, Penny's completely safe at TC so it'll only be Jake or Ken put up for consideration for the CGs to vote for." My thinking is that MB realized there's been too much emphasis on Penny to make her appear in a negative way so he's starting to edit her more UTR for now and perhaps will start to build her up in the editing as a potential winner.
>Also, Helen's disdain for anyone with money was made
>very apparent. Perhaps this is groundwork for a future
>conflict between Helen and other CGs.
Could also be a suggestion that Helen won't win the million; disdain for money = does not win.
 
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JohnMc 2679 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson"
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11-15-02, 10:43 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: Review of the 14 Nov. episode's editing" |
As far as the editing, the ET previews hinted at a Brian boot, which scared the bejeesus out of me until the show actually aired. Brian was featured winning the RC, but it wasn't a reward that I would even want to see if it meant everyone else got to see it too. If that were known, I'd have thrown it so someone else would win and not have my tribe hear my family say, "Win a million so we can go to Fiji." OUCH! Then after Jake went scheming, he again wanted to go after Brian? I'm sorry, but the EPM misdirection was so bad that you knew that Ken was going.I think we know how the next 2 eps will play out. Penny and Jake are next, in that order, unless one wins immunity. And if Clay can win immunity over Ken, then anyone can do it, so it is entirely a possibility. (btw, can you believe how well he learned those Thai numbers?! Go Clay!) As far as the "Where's Penny," I think she'll get her final face time next week. Since the following week is recrap, I think that's where Jake gets his boot. Overall, I'm a little disappointed w/this season. Even at TC, no one shows their true colors; everyone has a game face for the jury as well as in front of everybody. Getting kind of boring. Hope S6 is better.
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ulalame 778 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"
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11-15-02, 12:20 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Review of the 14 Nov. episode's editing" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-15-02 AT 12:27 PM (EST)I think that the editing last night was again reminscent of Survivor 3. We’ve got a “to the end” alliance at CG and it’s not between Brian and Ted. I think it’s between Brian, Clay and Jan. Remember, the first episode, the importance of being Eldest. Well, I think it was a bigger hint than we thought. My guess is the final 4 will be Jake, Brian, Clay and Jan, with a final two of either Jake and Jan or Clay and Jan. Why are we being shown Brian’s cockiness? It really isn’t a replay of Richard Hatch, because, well, Dicque, although was cocky about his control of the game, I do not recall being hateful about other players. I had to admit, it was kinda fun to see Brian squirm at the showing of his video. His wife seemed nice but a wee bit unsubtle, and it did expose a lot about his home life that I’m sure he’d rather have kept hidden. Dicque, if I recall correctly, consciously did not win rewards, because he didn’t want to foment resentment. Brian should take a page from his book on that one, or his cockiness will be his downfall in the end game. In defense of his wife and the Fiji comment, it looked to me like she might have been a Pacific Islander–so perhaps the trip to Fiji was a long-desired trip home that they otherwise wouldn’t be able to afford. Re Helen: I think she is being set up for the boot, too. According to Antithesis excellent speculation over at sucks, she’s the next in line to be booted. Her spike in face time in the last two episodes hints at it as well. At this point the CG’s do not need a 5-2 advantage, so it could be time for them to start cleaning their internal house to get rid of end-game threats. Re. Clay: Clay was clearly playing the Sookies in the “conspiratorial” phase pre-boot. Jake is desperate, trying to find an ally. Why wouldn’t he have gone for Jan, who appeared to be the weak one on CG? I believe it’s because she is solidly in with her alliance, and couldn’t be budged, but we weren’t shown this. Clay, on the other hand, was shown being “receptive” to Jake, but in reality he was setting up the Sookies to misdirect a vote away from Brian, who was the natural
(and admitted) target of the Sookies. So, Clay set them up to think that there was a chance of a Ted boot, and the Sookies fell for it hook, line and sinker. Clearly, Ted was not at risk of a boot and the CG’s were going to stick together. Interestingly, after the vote, it was clear Ted did not know he was set up as the target for the Sookies, which means he is out of the loop. Re. Penny: I’ve commented before that Penny’s “evil” side has been downplayed in the show. We really only know about it from other player’s comments, and not from her own actions (except for last week, voting out “her best friend” Erin). Her going UTR, and JeffyPoo’s comments at the last TC, lead me to believe that she’s safe for an episode or two. Is E10 where we are going to see the shake up in the CG’s? It’s possible that Brian/Clay/Jan will pair up with Jake and Penny to take out Helen, then Ted. However, they will have to do it with intelligent subtlety–i.e. Ted will have to be kept in the loop, so he thinks it’s a Brian-Ted decision, with Clay and Jan along for the ride. If Ted gets wind that he’s outside the core, then in E11 there’s nothing to prevent him swinging over to the remnants of the Sookies to force a 3-3 tie. If it's successful, though, then Ted will once again be "taken by surprise" at the vote in E11, and the "alliances exposed always fail" theorim will have played out as usual. We could also just be seeing a traditional pagonging. The editing last night also reminded me of S1, when EPM tried in vain to convince us that the Tagis were not going to systematically take out the Pagongs. Here, he’s hinted that the two remaining Sookies will have a chance, so I suspect we won’t see a straight pagonging, although I think it is dumb of the CG’s to do anything else, for the CG’s that are left out of the core alliance, and taken out of the endgame in favor of Jake or Penny will bear grudges (read: Helen, who I do not think would vote for Brian in the final two, given her comments about the video, and especially if she is betrayed).
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Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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11-15-02, 01:55 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Review of the 14 Nov. episode's editing" |
Brian's wife was born in Hawaii. It is on her acting bio.
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danderoo 37 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
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11-15-02, 12:22 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Review of the 14 Nov. episode's editing" |
There was also no mention of transferring immunity. Perhaps they did away with that possibility, I can't see anyone doing it anyway.
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Boilermaker 260 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
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11-15-02, 12:36 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Review of the 14 Nov. episode's editing" |
Good point. I hadn't thought of that yet even though it was a complete waste of time and never worked.
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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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11-17-02, 11:54 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: Review of the 14 Nov. episode's editing" |
Actually, I was surprised at that. Granted, no one in their right mind would ever barter away individual immunity, but it instigated some very entertaining TCs towards the end of S4 so I am surprised that MB abandoned it.
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Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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11-15-02, 02:00 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Review of the 14 Nov. episode's editing" |
Clay and Helen have seemed to be chummy in the last couple episodes. They are often sitting next to each other and talking together. It surprised me because I thought they disliked each other.
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ringtheory 19 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson"
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11-15-02, 04:52 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Review of the 14 Nov. episode's editing" |
The targets made perfect sense: big, strong guy for CG, big, strong guy for SJ. They finally merge, and the majority team wins.Next week, same thing. Probably Jake vs. Ted again, maybe Brian. Then Penny, immunity-free Penny. Editing Brian, Clay, Helen, all as annoying, so maybe they're next after the last of SJ. Ted, I can't figure out, but Jan? She couldn't win, could she? Looking like it....
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ivoryElephant 2257 desperate attention whore postings
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11-15-02, 05:04 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: Review of the 14 Nov. episode's editing" |
I thought I heard Clay say those ever so fateful words.It was something to the tune of "I am going for it all and I'm gonna win" Basically the curse of Richard hatch. Silas, John Carrol and many others fell victim. Is Clay next?
"I got a kiss from Clay Jordan, oh my god am I queen for a day" - Helen Glover
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Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings
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11-15-02, 05:22 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: Review of the 14 Nov. episode's editing - A little observation, a lot of speculation" |
The thing that surprised me last night was that, after Clay told them they were thinking about voting for Ted, we didn't see Sook Jai go to Ted and say "Hey - they want to vote you out! Join us, join us." Now, maybe we didn't see it because it didn't happen. On the other hand, maybe we didn't see it because showing it would give too much away about future episodes. After all, if we see them approach Ted, we would then have to be shown the consequences of them approaching Ted. What would those consequences be? If they approached Ted, Ted must have asked Brian about it. I think if he did, Brian would have denied it and dismissed it. "They're just trying to break us up, Ted - don't worry, it never happened." Ted was satisfied, and didn’t think anything further about it. Now, someone might be thinking “Why would Brian deny it? It was a great strategy to hand Sook Jai a target. It stops them from further trying to infiltrate us or trying to steal our tribe members.” Well, it is a great strategy, if you let the target in on it ahead of time. “Okay Chuay Guan, let’s tell them we’re fed up with one of us and we want to vote that person out. Who shall we pick?” If you don’t tell the target ahead of time, and that person finds out later, it’s suddenly not such a great strategy. Anyway, Ted’s fears are calmed. Then we have tribal council, and Ted gets three votes. The first three votes. Needless to say, Ted starts to get a little worried. He knows the group told him they were voting for Ken, but now he's not so sure. As Ken votes start to pile up, he relaxes. He's not going tonight. But he's still concerned. He’s starting to believe what Sook Jai told him. Once again Ted confronts Brian, this time a little more intensely. Brian again denies it. Maybe he confronts Clay too, only to get another denial. They tell him he got votes because Sook Jai thought he was the biggest threat and they tell him Sook Jai told him a lie about Chuay Guan to try to get Ted to defect. But Ted still feels a little suspicious. So when Clay and Brian (The Cats) are riding on the big elephant, he asks Jake about it. Jake says Clay was the one who told Sook Jai that Ted was the target. Ted then asks Helen, who tells him all about it, or at least what she knows. (See, the Helen comments about Brian and money weren’t complaining as much as they were foreshadowing.) Whatever she tells him, it’s enough to let him know Brian and he aren’t on such good footing. Maybe he and Helen both find out that each other has a final two pact with Brian. Maybe they talk to Jan and find out all three of them have final two pacts with Brian. What do they do? The three of them (Jan, Helen, and Ted) resolve to make a final three pact. Do they then go over to Jake and Penny? No sense to it. If they make an overture to Penny and Jake and vote Clay or Brian off, Jake and Penny will approach whoever is left between Clay and Brian about making a final three pact with Jake and Penny. No, the Helen, Jan, and Ted triad sticks with Clay and Brian so as not to arouse suspicion. Brian still thinks he has his kingdom, Clay still thinks he is going to the final two, and next week Jake/Penny (if one wins immunity, the other goes – if neither wins immunity, Jake goes first) takes the boot. H, J, and T follow Brian’s script until they have the upper hand, or until they are forced to move (because the remaining Sook Jai has won immunity and there is a need to boot a Chuay Guan). Even then, they still might be able to go on without letting Brian know he is on the outside. Brian may go to all four of his final two partners, ask them what they want to do, hear three of the four say “Let’s toss Clay next” and say “Works for me”. After all, he doesn’t feel in danger yet. He may lose Clay’s vote, but he’ll worry about that later. During episode 12, the remaining Sook Jai joins her tribemates on the jury. In the first part of episode 13, Brian, still thinking he is in control, doesn’t even worry too much about winning immunity. After all, it will make it easier to manipulate his three remaining final two partners if one of them gets it. “Well (insert betrayed person here), I had to vote for you because (insert IC winner) and (insert other final two partner) said they were going to vote for you and I wanted to avoid that damn rock in a bag.” Little does Brian suspect that he needs that immunity more than anyone. He takes the walk, and we have a final three of Helen, Jan, and Ted. In that event, I envision the following Jan wins IC – She takes Helen to final 2 (she likes Helen more, she fears a male-female vote split, she thinks the jury will find Helen more annoying) Ted wins IC – He takes Helen to final 2 (he thinks the jury will find Helen more annoying) Helen wins IC – She takes Ted to final 2 (she worries the jury would favor Jan over her, she fears a male-female vote split, she hopes there is some resentment among Clay and Brian towards Ted) Because I think Jan’s chances of winning the final IC are about as good as my chances of winning that IC, I’m betting on a Helen/Ted final. Which, as always, means it won’t happen…
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