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PLEASE NOTE: The Reality TV World Message Boards are filled with desperate
attention-seekers pretending to be one big happy PG/PG13-rated family. Don't
be fooled. Trying to get everyone to agree with you is like herding cats,
but intolerance for other viewpoints is NOT welcome and respect for other
posters IS required at all times. Jump in and play, and you'll soon find out
how easy it is to fit in, but save your drama for your mama. All members are
encouraged to read the
complete guidelines.
As entertainment critic Roger
Ebert once said, "If you disagree with something I write, tell me so, argue
with me, correct me--but don't tell me to shut up. That's not the American way."
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"Ep 9 (Thu) Preview Vidcaps"
Bungler 497 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star"
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11-07-02, 09:23 PM (EST)
 
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"Ep 9 (Thu) Preview Vidcaps" |
{Jeff Probst} Next time on Survivor...
{JP} ...reminders of home strike an emotional chord
{Helen, squealing}
{Clay} Oh sh*t.
{JP} But for one Survivor it could backfire.
{Helen} Brand new cars in the garage...that'd be enough to vote them off...
{Helen} ...because they don't need the money.
{JP} And the scramble to the finish line begins.
{Ken} They've been worried since square one that I was a threat.
{Jake} We ought to create a little bit of a stir.
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IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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11-08-02, 05:21 AM (EST)
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22. "RE: Silly Rules" |
Somebody might be checking for the previews for last week and accidently click on this thread. In a perfect world, people only click on the threads that they intend to but in the real world mistakes are sometimes made. The rule has always been to post in the East Coast thread and the only times I really go out of my way to post reminders to that effect are during the times when a big surprise in the episode has occured.If a clear warning is posted on a thread about the potential for spoiler material and no spoiler appears in the title or preview text then no additional warning is made. The application of this rule has always been done within reason. It is also interesting to note that your post was made well after the 11:00pm time making the reminder not even applicable to your particular situation. I hope that this clarifies things for you. PS: I'm all for comments about the rules especially in this forum, but not silly ones...
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corcam 374 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host"
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11-07-02, 09:31 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Ep 9 (Thu) Preview Vidcaps" |
Brand new cars in the garage...that'd be enough to vote them off......because they don't need the money
What I thought was intriguing is that she says "them" instead of him/her... with Clay and his bankruptcy thing that might omit him but keep in mind that when you do file bankruptcy you still get to keep a few things.. I am not sure about the percentages of what you have but still you get to keep some.
Maybe Brian the used car salesman... all those bad deals gets him a new car LOL
anyone elses job seem like they make alot?
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corcam 374 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host"
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11-07-02, 09:56 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Ep 9 (Thu) Preview Vidcaps" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-07-02 AT 09:57 PM (EST)Okay of all the wonderful castaways left.. and how dynamic they are  we have... Jake=Land Broker
Brian=Used Car Sales *snicker*
Clay=Restauranteur (a.k.a bankrupt bum)
Ken= NYPO
Ted=Software Developer
Helen=Navy Swim Instructor
Penny=Pharmaceutical Sales
&
Jan=Teacher
well out of all those people teachers and cops make crap... regular navy make crap.. don't know about instructors?...
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Q 2569 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson"
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11-08-02, 10:05 AM (EST)
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35. "RE: Ep 9 (Thu) Preview Vidcaps" |
And he lives in Brooklyn. Would he have a garage in Brooklyn?I don't think so. Unless as mentioned his parents have one full of new cars. I doubt it though. Ken can be eliminated from this list. Its obviously not Helen, or Jan. But Bankrupt Clay? Remember Ep 1 when Helen voted for Clay? could this become an issue again. And maybe that is why he is bankrupt. Too many new cars. 
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Ra_8secs 1081 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest"
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11-08-02, 10:43 AM (EST)
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41. "New Car Owners speculation" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-08-02 AT 10:48 AM (EST)>Jake=Land Broker
>Brian=Used Car Sales *snicker*
>Clay=Restauranteur (a.k.a bankrupt bum)
>Ken= NYPO
>Ted=Software Developer
>Helen=Navy Swim Instructor
>Penny=Pharmaceutical Sales
>Jan=Teacher There reasons to not worry about this at all, and take this line as a ditto of Helen's carping about Clay in episode 1. 1. There can be a good range of incomes regarding these professions. (I've read the earlier responses to you, corcam.) 2. The possibilities of spousal or family members' income and net values throw all this occupation speculation out the window, anyway. 3. Just whose new cars are in the driveway? They don't necessarily belong to the Survivors' immediate family or pairing. Do the 3 comment-following face-shots of Jake, Clay, Ken have meaning? Nevertheless, here's my ranking of the suspects... Jake, I'd agree, is probably the most well off. Ted, Software Developer Manager, could be high-pay, depending on exactly what he does, ... could be grunt Dilbert work, too. Penny, same way. high end or low end? Ken's young and on the beat, doesn't have much rank, not into his pension obviously. Helen's irrelevant, because she's the one making the comment. But is she Navy? and if so, of what rank? Could be civilian, teaching Navy folks. With Seals, she's probably Navy. Brian probably hasn't parked much away, but maybe. Jan, teachers are lower paid, but not that horribly. Clay's probably living close, but the bankruptcy could just be a finesse to protect him from a failed restaurant's debts. -- Ra, Spinning in geo/helio eccentric orbit
  
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siamcat8 6 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
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11-07-02, 11:46 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: Ep 9 (Thu) Preview Vidcaps" |
I believe when my friend declared bankruptcy they said you could keep a car but there was a limit on how much it could be worth. You wouldn't be able to keep an expensive car that would cause the reaction Helen had.
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IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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11-07-02, 10:09 PM (EST)
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6. "Sexist Remark Alert..." |
The following speculation is based upon the most likely gender-based stereotypes:Helen says something about 'new cars in the garage'... this image appears during the scnese from loved ones at home... here's the sexist part... of the two possible genders for the loved ones (male or female), which one is most likely to be in the garage for the video shoot? I am saying it is more likely to be the male. Since the majority of the of the loved ones in past 'Messages from Home' segments are the significant others of the tribe members (and assuming that the majority of the tribe members are heterosexual), the message from home is coming from a male and it is directed towards a female tribe member. Phamaceutical companies make huge profits on huge mark-ups... most sales reps get commisions on their sales, so I would say that Penny is likely very comfortable, financially. Could the scene in the preview where Jake and Ken are speaking alone be where they discuss if Penny is rich enough to really not need the money, anyway. Could the fact that they are having the discussion indicate yet another IC loss for the hapless Sook Jais? I think Penny is going to be depicted as a spoiled rich kid former cheerleader next week and that she will be the focus of the 'sharp response'.
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Lisapooh 12664 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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11-07-02, 10:30 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Sexist Remark Alert..." |
LAST EDITED ON 11-07-02 AT 10:32 PM (EST)Helen made a comment about money in the first episode in regards to Clay. I think the "they have money, they don't need to win" comment is her own deal. Not necessarily shared by anyone else. Honestly, why does how much money someone has have any relevance anyway? Unless you are looking for a reason to vote them off. As far as Penny goes - Plano (where she lives) is an expensive town to live in. The average home price in Plano (according to the Plano School district where my daughter goes) is 270K - that's the average! And it's not a small town. She also mentions belonging to Highland Park Methodist Church in her bio. Highland Park is arguably the most exclusive (and snobbiest) area in Dallas - and not even close to Plano. Why she would go all the way down there for church is beyond me - unless it's because of her fiance - maybe he has money. McKinney (where Jake lives) isn't exactly a slum either. Although parts of it are affordable.
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corcam 374 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host"
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11-07-02, 11:41 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: Sexist Remark Alert..." |
OMH!!! I was messing around with a salary calculator and I about had a heartattackMy hubby makes approx 30,000 yr and I compared it to Plano and Highland Park for salary difference he would have to make We live about 10 min from Battle Creek MI in Marshall where cost of living is prob about 5 to 7,000 more than in BC the closest city to us..
BC-Plano wasn't that bad at 27,609 but
BC-HP was a whopping 61,974 and being only about 20min from Plano that is like driving from BC to Marshall.. BC-MCKinney where jake lives wasn't all that bad at 33,791 I guess I won't be moving to Highland Park anytime soon...
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idiotcowboy 1135 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest"
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11-08-02, 02:11 AM (EST)
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19. "RE: Sexist Remark Alert..." |
>McKinney (where Jake lives) isn't exactly a slum either. Although parts of it are affordable. Parts of it ARE slum, my wife used to work as an elementary teacher there. It really is rather sad, especially when you visit the both sides and see the huge differences in facilities etc. That being said I expect Jake ain't hurting for money... Penny (or more specifically her family/fiance) either. -ICB
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djandy 1711 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
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11-08-02, 10:39 AM (EST)
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40. "Penny's the spoiled rich kid" |
The fact that Penny listed belonging to the Highland Park United Methodist Church in her bio told me that Penny is very much into money and status. This made me think that Penny was a spoiled rich kid whose parents live in Highland Park, and Penny still goes to the church she went to growing up as a display of money and status. Add the fact that she got married at the Dallas Arboretum, and all of this screams "daddy has money"! Therefore, I think it is likely that the wealth shown is that of Penny's parents.
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FesterFan1 5947 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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11-08-02, 12:41 PM (EST)
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56. "Penny's bio & kinesiology" |
From Penny's S5 bio:Originally from Houston, Texas, Penny Ramsey spent her high school years in Bernardville, New Jersey. She spent her first year of college at the University of Tennessee in Knoxville before transferring to the University of Maryland, where she received a Bachelor of Science degree in kinesiology. So her family is not from Dallas. I suppose it's possible that Mom & Dad live there now, but I would doubt it. She's old enough to have a career of her own miles away from Mom and Dad. I understand that she was invovled with the national organization dealing with cheeleaders and other spirit squads, which I think I remember seeing as located in the DFW metroplex. That would explain how she wound up there. As to her going to UM, it wouldn't be a stretch for her to go to UM if her ambition was to get into the medical field. It's a good school with a good rep in the medical sciences. Also, if she was trying to break into pharmaceudicals, the DC area isn't a bad one to try to get a job. Overall, I think she is a VERY likely candidate to be the one with the money.  Fester
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wildchickenhunter 3192 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
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11-08-02, 09:11 AM (EST)
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28. "RE: Sexist Remark Alert..." |
The following is an opinion.....not a FLAME!
<Phamaceutical companies make huge profits on huge mark-ups... most sales reps get commisions on their sales, so I would say that Penny is likely very comfortable, financially.>
HUH? What makes you think that....I know this is popular socialist propaganda....but I own stock in several pharmaceuticals and this is not true....once you factor in the cost of the research with the production of the product mark-ups are not out of the ordinary....Yeah, I know I have seen the "Prime Time Live" where Sam Donaldson goes into some drug company and accuses them of producing a pill for $.01 and selling it for $3.00, but Sam never looks at the 10 years and $10 billion dollars it took to make it. Or the fact that the patten is only 7 years....The real cost is $1.25.... Who of out group could afford new car....
Ted...software developer...this is also my profession....I have two new cars in my driveway...so this is possible. Jake.....land developer.....these guys make to much money to live in my neighborhood...could also afford the cars. Brian....car salesman....may have nice cars. Penny....Phamaceutical pretty good paying job...could easily have new cars.
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nrtn 3 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
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11-08-02, 09:27 AM (EST)
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29. "Jake" |
Jake lives in the same neighborhood that I do (Stonebridge Ranch). It is a nice neighborhood that has many million dollar homes, but also has homes that start as low as the 170's. Jake definately lives in the bottom end - although it is a nice house it is probably 15 years old, around 2000 sq ft and probably worth around $175,000. Definately not expensive for this area!!! I am not saying that he couldn't have money for a nice car (I don't know what he drives), but that his house probably does not cost as much as someone living in Plano of Highland Park.
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nrtn 3 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
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11-10-02, 03:47 PM (EST)
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98. "RE: Jake" |
I have driven by his house several times this weekend and the garage door is always closed. (and no car in the driveway)
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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11-08-02, 09:47 AM (EST)
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32. "RE: Sexist Remark Alert..." |
I agree with much of what wildchickenhunter says, and I once worked for one of those pharmaceutical companies. The research costs are huge. But, the sales reps do make their green dollar bills.As to affording a new car, allow me to make these points: 1) Helen obviously has a hatred of people with any semblance of money. Her earlier remarks about Clay, her remarks in this preview, these remind me of the MallRats in Survivor 3 attacking Carl for having money. Lindsey even openly accused Carl of this in the tied Tribal Council. Of course, as Lisapooh said above, why does it MATTER what the contestants have? It wouldn't to me. It clearly does to Helen. 2) Even someone without riches might afford a new car, and if this was being shown off to the contestant, Helen might misinterpret it as the contestant having more money than he/she really does. Therefore, it might be almost anyone. 
"All of us necessarily hold many casual opinions that are ludicrously wrong simply because life is far too short for us to think through even a small fraction of the topics that we come across. -- Julian Simon Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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wildchickenhunter 3192 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
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11-08-02, 11:11 AM (EST)
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48. "RE: Sexist Remark Alert..." |
Totally agreed!
Thats why I started by saying, I in no way was trying to flame the ICECAT.Everyone on this show could buy a new car! The amount of money should have nothing to do with whether you deserve to win or not. I am a little put off by heleN and others on previous shows who act like working hard and having some success are a(crime)and precludes them from winning.
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NightScribe 761 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"
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11-08-02, 01:45 PM (EST)
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69. "RE: Sexist Remark Alert..." |
Wow. You know, when I learned Penny was in to "pharmaceutical sales" I just assumed she was a drug dealer. Huh.
I know, I know, take it to bashers
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toddE 1433 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-02, 05:50 PM (EST)
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77. "RE: Sexist Remark Alert..." |
It might be Penny,. But not because she's in pharmaceutical sales. She is too young to make that much in sales. My cousin does the same thing and is about the same age, and she's doing ok, but not highly paid. I'm a teacher, and because I'm so oldy, at the top of the salary scale. So, oldy teacher makes probably as good or better as youthful salesperson. But it is probably the significant other who bought the car, so the players professions are irrelevant.One caveat:
Supposedly, no one knew about Penny's impending wedding, so it could be an older one. Jan's days are clearly numbered--could it be her? With Helen talking, it's probably a CG. Unlikely Clay. Brian/Ted possible. I guess: Jan 
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ejm92 2221 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-02, 10:23 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Ep 9 (Thu) Preview Vidcaps" |
Well, I personally don't think Helen would say that about one of her previous CG mates, so I am eliminating Brian/Clay/Jan/Ted....and judging on his audition tape, etc., and I'm guessing Ken proboably lives in the city and doesn't have a garage...I am cutting it down to Penny and Jake...remember, Jake has kids, stepkids, grandkids, etc., Penny is now married, but wasn't during the show, so no kids or anything. I also think the car comment may have been made in general, maybe she's just using it as an example.
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Rain Crow 374 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-02, 07:29 AM (EST)
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24. "Helen is a loose woman," |
oops, I mean a loose cannon  . I need to remind everyone that she was almost ready to vote against Ted the last time they went to TC and voted off Grande. She has no love for any of the men in her tribe.She may seem to have some sort of understanding with Brian, but she also has groused about the men playing golf and goofing off fishing while the women did all the cooking and hard work. It was clear that she was including ALL the men. She also made aprevious remark about Clay not needing the money. Therefore, I think she is looking for one more reason to vote against her tribemates, knowing it will have to happen sooner or later, and is trying to find some rationalizations to ease her mind. I think Ted, as a software person working for IBM, probably has a Beamer or a Benz in the Barn. I'm sure Brian, through his "hard work" has "come into" a couple of "good models" from time to time  . Clay, with his now revealed bankruptcy, may still have a pretty nice car, or at least one that would incite jealosy from a two-bit whor...er, uh, swimming instructor. So...I do think Helen would make this kind of comment about her former tribemates. I also think she will have no problem voting againt any of the men in her tribe when the time comes. Her only hesitation will be to consider which should go first. 
"Onward Thru the Fog"
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snoocharoo 1 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
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11-08-02, 09:42 AM (EST)
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31. "RE: Not necessarily" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-08-02 AT 12:18 PM (EST)Software Developers aren't even middle management but depending on the nature of their work and their application specialty it can pay alot. However, Big Blue does not pay the enormous salaries of the hay day any longer, most of their work is subcontracted to consultants. You can make a very comfrtable living in software development but you won't be driving a bmw unless you have a unique skill set, are an indy or work for Anderson. Clay may have done what many others do prior to filling for bankruptcy and ran out and bought a new car. If his bankruptcy was for his DBA (business)there are no attachemnts to his personal assests. His attorney may have advised him to go buy a car before his credit is shot to hell for 7 years. Most restarants fail, and many entreperenuers in that food service industry file bankruptcy. Clay probably doesn't have big bucks because I've never heard of him having a "fall back job". Used car salesmen can make good money, my DH's best friend owns a used car lot and makes over $100K. His sales staff makes much less but if they hussle it pays well. My DH's best friend only drives nice USED cars, I highly doubt Brian has new cars in the garage. He probably has 1 or 2 nice used vehicles. Plus he is a family man, I would venture to say he is very middle class. Jan is a teacher as a rule they don't get paid nearly what they deserve. Teachers in CT make beaucoupe bucks (start at $50K) however that is an exception. I don't think Jan has new cars in the garage. CopKen - NYPD start at around $50K which seems high but consider it's NYC. He is single so we can assume that he lives alone and if he lives in the city it's highly likely he doesn't own a home. So his rent is likely to be high BUT he probably has few other bills and can afford a new SUV. Perhaps one of his cop buddies did a tape from home standing next to Kens' baby, his new car. chickenhunter, I totally disagree with you re: Pharma Sales. They make OUTSTANDING money. $100K + base, bonus and options. R&D is so far removed from sales it's not even a factor. The last Pharma Sales Rep I placed got an $85K base, $20K sign on, commission and 10,000 options at a very handsome strike price. Penny is PennyWise...I can easily see a "status" ride in her garage. It's all part of the image. Jake - he's loaded. Helen - she's broke. 
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Ronii29 10 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-02, 10:05 AM (EST)
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36. "RE: Not necessarily" |
IMO Helen could be talking about anyone. I have a brand new car and a nice house. Do I make alotta money? no! I am just in debt up to my ears. So even Jan being a low paid teacher could have a new car and a huge debt!
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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11-08-02, 11:12 AM (EST)
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49. "RE: Not necessarily" |
Snooch is right, and let me add from experience.Now I work for a Government contract, which limits salaries somewhat. However, I'm making more than twice as much as my average salary during a decade of chemistry slave-jobs. Some software people, like the Oracle folks, especially those that involve travel, can make as much as $200,000/yr. Most software developers COULD buy just about any car they want to (with good credit, of course  ). Most of us choose not to overspend for our cars, however. My parking lot right now contains, in addition to my Sport Trac, several Ford F-150 trucks (some loaded), a couple of Rangers, a Chevy truck (ugh!), many Hondas and Toyotas (cars), a mixed assortment of American made cars, one Jaguar, and an assortment of Mom-mobiles.
"All of us necessarily hold many casual opinions that are ludicrously wrong simply because life is far too short for us to think through even a small fraction of the topics that we come across. -- Julian Simon Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Q 2569 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-02, 10:14 AM (EST)
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37. "RE: Not necessarily" |
Bebo,I agree completely. I work in RTP, two suites down from and IBM site, at a pharmacutical company. And the IBM cars parked in front are not all Beamers, etc. They are just like all of us, a lexus or two, a volvo or two, a jetta, some SUVs, Minivans, and then all the rest from junks to standard cars and trucks. They are not rolling in the dough these days. Also as pointed out, he has new child, and IMO would spend his extra cash on his BIKE, not a suped up car, his BIKE is his passion, not cars. And being in the Pharma world, let me say, times are tough out there. Venture Capitol has dried up, Drug Pipelines are stalling, investors are wary, generics are wiping out the profits of many big timers (GSK, Phizer, etc.). So Penny's job is good and pays well, I'm sure, but her real money is from Mom and Dad and most likely her new Hubby. I am betting on Jake or Clay to have the cars, but who knows these days.
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Bebo 21083 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-02, 11:16 AM (EST)
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51. "RE: Not necessarily" |
I work in RTP, two suites down from and IBM site, at a pharmacutical company. Q, we're work neighbors.  some SUVs And this area is definitely in love with SUVs - I see them all over the place. (and happen to be driving Mr. Bebo's today) his BIKE is his passion, not cars. Excellent reminder - he is in a bike club, peeps. So Penny's job is good and pays well, I'm sure Her job may also specify what sort of vehicle she drives. A friend of mine who used to work for a pharma company had a company minivan to haul all of her stuff around.   
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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-02, 01:25 PM (EST)
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63. "RE: Not necessarily" |
And Ted is a founding member of his motorcycle club, the Big Dog Riders. Being into bikes, he'd probably prefer to spend any extra cash on that hobby, rather than on a fancy new car.
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flyfly 5 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
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11-09-02, 08:26 AM (EST)
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85. "RE: Helen is a loose woman," |
LAST EDITED ON 11-09-02 AT 08:47 AM (EST)LAST EDITED ON 11-09-02 AT 08:38 AM (EST) I'm thinking Helen latched on to Brian/Ted earlier in the game, but she's smart, she knows she is the odd one out. And she doesn't really like them, she just did it to survive. She outranks Jan, so she's safe for now but she will need to make a move sometime. Helen will need a savior later in the game. She can't count on kooky Jan, Jan's behavior wouldn't inspire trust. But she's cautious, having just seen what happened to Shii Ann. She needs to make her play in the dark, not out in the open. Helen and Ken might have some simpatico -- navy instructor, cop -- similar sensibilities, similar "let the best man win" ideals. Helen and Ken were matched up in the ambassadorship. They walked away from that respecting each other as adversaries. Ken's not likely to be rich, Penny is. Ken knows he's been a target because he's a young strong guy, so he's been playing low-key and letting Brain be alpha-male. Jake and Ken are tighter than Jake and Penny or Ken and Penny. When Ken expressed he was feeling vulnerable, Jake actually suggested making a move and shaking things up. Could it be the Chuey's were discussing who to boot next and Ken was the target of the men, because he's strong? Helen was advocating a Penny boot hoping that she'd be able to persuade successfully because all the Chuey's hate Penny (Ted's and Clay's eye rolls and private "gotcha" grins last week . . .) She's frustrated that she can't persuade them. Hoping to save her future savior without having to come out against the other Chuey's yet, because the tribes haven't really merged yet. Could it be that Jake and Ken wouldn't mind so much letting Penny go if they could get Helen? If they can't get rid of Jan this week by winning IC and being passive, would they try to get Helen to persuade Chuey to vote Penny off this week, in return for their everlasting loyalty in future weeks? (Until it's down to just the three of them.) They would be trying to engineer things to get to one of the following scenarios next week, any of which would HUGELY benefit Helen, Ken and Jake: No merge:
Jake-Ken-Penny- (Helen as a friendly enemy)
vs.
Brian-Ted-Clay- (Helen as a double agent)
Jake-Ken- (Helen as a friendly enemy)
vs.
Brian-Ted-Clay-Jan- (Helen as a double agent)
Merge next week:
Jake-Ken-Penny-Helen
vs.
Brian-Ted-Clay Jake-Ken-Helen-Jan
vs.
Brian-Ted-Clay
Jake-Ken
vs.
Brian-Ted-Clay-Jan-Helen
(If Helen hasn't revealed herself too much in trying to persuade Jan to join her with Jake-Ken, she would have the luxury of staying with the Chueys. This scenario doesn't help Jake-Ken, but all the others do, and the odds are with them, 4 of 5 possible outcomes are all in thier favor.)
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spacey 115 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
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11-08-02, 02:14 PM (EST)
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73. "RE: Mat Colors" |
Has anyone notice that they are sitting on different colored mats? Could this mean they are going to do a tribe swap at this late stage in the game? Notice Helen is sitting on a purple mat, Jan on red, penny on purple could it follow that Jake is on a red mat setting them all up for what every color mat they sat on they are now on that tribe. This would really make the game interesting.
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tribephyl 12393 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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11-08-02, 04:10 PM (EST)
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75. "RE: Mat Colors" |
Has anyone notice that they are sitting on different colored mats?Now that you mention it...
With, red, purple, red, purple..etc.3 red and 2 purple in front, it must follow that there are 2 purple and 1 red in back row.
Could this mean they are going to do a tribe swap at this late stage in the game? If that were the case than, it would seem that Clay, Jan, Jake and Ted make up the newly swapped red tribe. Leaving Ken, Brian, Helen, and Penny as new purple. Now...it is all starting to gel, for me. It explains why Ken feels vulnerable, why Helen is spouting about the "importance" of a new car. (I am from the belief that Helen is in confessional worrying about what the other folks thought of her husband showing off her/their new car.) And why in the teasers it seems like lots of cross-alliancing will happen. None of that can be explained, together, until now.
If there was to be a full merge and everyone is "scrambling" for Individual IC. Helen might still be concerned, as would Ken. But there would be no reason for CG to send anyone to infiltrate the "enemy" or for Jake to "stir things up". We now return you to "The Pagong Show", already in progress. If it were still Tribal IC with the 2 tribes as they are now, then why are two opposing Tmates, both worried about the vote, if only one of them is going to TC. And lastly, why would JP(via MB and editing) have such an ominous closing to Ep.8's TC, when he mentioned that the remaining SJ need to not lose hope...because "ANYTHING" can happen. The three of them are about to have their "boots" saved. Maybe. With all of that said, I would like to go on note that the remaining SJ are now, better than everyone else, at back-stabbing, double-talking and side-stepping.
It's a staple of this game to oust the Tmate, who is seen playing their strategies openly. Brian may just be the one who thinks now is his time to move. But, Old SJ will out-maneuver, anything Brian may have up his sleeve. Quietly leaving a big sneaky target on his back.
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erikman 324 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-02, 11:26 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Ep 9 (Thu) Preview Vidcaps" |
helen might be talking about brian. the vid will have his hot wife, and brian probly got a good deal on a car.
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GTmike 1255 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-02, 11:51 PM (EST)
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17. "Clip 10--Immunity" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-08-02 AT 00:04 AM (EST)edited to put back who was booted In cap 10, there is the immunity idol with Clay's flopy hat on it. Could this be from last ep. and this conversation happened before voting Erin off or is this new? Looks like this conversation happened before going to TC (Erin boot) unless CG wins again and it is still tribal immunity and Clay put the idol in the same spot and uses it as a hat rack again. Also, in this cap, neither of them have any buffs. I think that you can see a SJ one in the back ground in cap 11 though. And, no Penny w/scheming going on. 
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ivoryElephant 2257 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-02, 02:43 AM (EST)
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20. "RE: Clip 10--Immunity" |
Thanks for the Great vidcaps Bungler.I think they merge. 1. the videos from home have always been with a merged tribe.
2. Ken worring about stirring stuff up.
3. It is logical for them to merge now since all the members would have to view TC. Yes CG could sit in but I don't think they would do that "I got a kiss from Clay Jordan, oh my god am I queen for a day" - Helen Glover
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anotherkim 14420 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-02, 06:24 AM (EST)
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23. "Buffs in plain view" |
They are clearly still wearing their buffs at the videos, --Clay, Jan, Jake, and Penny have them on their wrists and it looks as if Ted's is on his head.So, maybe an individual reward be individual even with tribal IC? Or a post RC merge? Curiouser and curiouser.
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zuckie 50 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-02, 10:16 AM (EST)
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38. "RE: Buffs in plain view" |
#9 shows Ken with his SJ buff on. Ken is off screen in the group picture but if you notice Penny's head appears to be in the lower left corner of #9. This leads me to believe they are NOT merged at reward.
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anotherkim 14420 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-02, 10:51 PM (EST)
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82. "RE: Buffs in plain view" |
yes, each of the individual tribe colors is in plain view---ken and penny have their purple on their wrists and the others are shown with the orange on.
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-02, 09:54 AM (EST)
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33. "RE: Ep 9 (Thu) Preview Vidcaps" |
Cin, you make EXCELLENT points, and allow me to add to them:1) Helen was talking recipes, but I imagine that when the guys aren't around, she is complaining vigorously about who is doing all the cooking. 2) They showed Brian talking about the male/female roles in the camp. This was MB's way of yet again emphasizing this rift. 3) Now we see Helen whining about someone having money. Nothing new. Just a re-emphasis? 4) Helen did get plenty of air time this last episode. 5) Why in the WORLD wasn't Helen chosen to compete in the underwater challenge... if ANYONE should be in that, it would be her. This strikes me as VERRRRY peculiar, and possibly a sign that the other CGs don't think the world of her.
"All of us necessarily hold many casual opinions that are ludicrously wrong simply because life is far too short for us to think through even a small fraction of the topics that we come across. -- Julian Simon Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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clemsonbeav 4208 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-02, 01:36 PM (EST)
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65. "RE: Helen" |
Was it just me, or did Helen have a sort of a weird "smile" on her face when she sat out? It's like she was relieved to sit out, maybe she wanted CG to throw it? Although why would they?
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Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-02, 01:45 PM (EST)
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68. "RE: Helen" |
I wonder if they have to pick who sits out before they know what the challenge is? Maybe Helen had been picked before they were told it involved underwater performance. Jeff may have just been asking them to say her name for the cameras. But they had chosen her before they ever left camp and could not change once they saw the water challenge. Just a thought.
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ulalame 778 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-02, 12:58 PM (EST)
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59. "RE: Ep 9 (Thu) Preview Vidcaps" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-08-02 AT 01:02 PM (EST)Good points, Dawg and Cin. A couple of devil's advocate positions: Whether they have merged or not, Ken has got to worry about "being a threat" -- you can bet that if the Sookies thought they were going to to merge soon, they would've booted Ken over Erin. And, if they continue playing in teams, I think Ken is the next in line to get EvilPenny's knife. Re. Helen being sat out of the challenge, it could have been simply because they didn't know there wouldn't be a reward challenge--the IC, while requiring endurance, didn't require strength, so perhaps they wanted to save Helen for a strength/athletic challenge. Jan actually seems to do decently in water challenges, and she did stay down longer than either Ted or Clay, so she doesn't seem to have been such a bad choice after all. With all the focus on Helen, I think we might see a Chewy loss this time. If they were to merge, I really really don't think the Chewies would get rid of one of their own before picking off at least 1-2 more Sookies. They know Penny is a schemer, and Ken, at least appears athletic. Jake seems to be making some inroads with Brian, but Brian is not that dumb. If Brian/the men of CG were to spearhead a Helen boot immediately after the merger, they'd be costing themselves a sure vote on the jury. Why would he/they risk alienating one of their own tribemates, when there are enough outsiders to pad the jury with first? EMP has racheted up a notch the tribal divisions by delaying the merge, and in doing so, he has reinforced that the other tribe is the enemy. The CGs have the final 5 locked in, so long as they hang together (and assuming either they merge soon or keep winning team challenges). The only thing that could happen to warrant a boot off of one of their own if they merge, is if that person betrayed the others and attempted to switch to the remnants of the Sookie tribe, and again, why would anyone do that at this point, when the CGs have a 5-3 lead? Edited to add: I think the only way a CG will go this week is if they continue to play as teams, and the CGs lose. Clay's spoiler that they don't go back to TC for "a while" has certainly been satisfied--they haven't been to TC for 4 rounds. If they do merge, I think a Sookie will be the boot.
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NTK 109 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-02, 09:32 AM (EST)
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30. "RE: Ep 9 (Thu) Preview Vidcaps" |
I find Helen's wealth comments a little odd. The friends and relatives we have that have been in the Service for a number of years would admit to living comfortably. Maybe not in contrast to a Texas land broker, but still good. As noted above, she may be in a little trouble for annoying others. If not this week, then in the near future. She may just be making these comments to the camera, but the attitude may be difficult to cover up.
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frisky 11695 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-02, 11:04 AM (EST)
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45. "Misdirection in action" |
I think Helen is just speculating in her confessional about how viewing messages from home will help her strategically. That is, if your strategy is to vote off people who can afford to have new cars...whatever. Doesn't she realize that a new car usually comes with a huge debt? Also, "new" is in the eye of the beholder. My mother has a 15-year-old car and my '97 is "new" to her. What's "new" to Helen? But I digress... I think she is speaking more in "what if" terms than in the context of having seen something in the videos, and that evil whatsisface snagged up the comment and edited it into the preview for misdirection. And it's working....
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smrtNsassybnkr 332 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-02, 11:53 AM (EST)
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54. "RE: Penny's got money" |
Didn't the National Enquirer article mention that Penny didn't share much of her personal life with the other contestants? Didn't DADDY give her a "Fairy Tale" wedding? Since she wasnt' married yet, I would assume that her parents would be sending the video, in their BIG house with their "comfortable" living, this could add to the existing animosity towards eher and Jake and ken could be trying to protect her by "causing a stir". Thoughts?
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mistofleas 8043 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-02, 11:40 AM (EST)
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53. "RE: Ep 9 (Thu) Preview Vidcaps" |
I've been reading all the comments regarding Helen saying "...brand new cars in the garage....that'd be enough to vote them off." and think everyone has good points. BUT...here's a different perpective on that comment.Helen is obviously in a confessional when she says her comment. So it has to be after they've seen the tapes. Whether it be each person got to see a little sneak peek or whatever. Helen's comment to me didn't sound so much like...oh I saw that person has a new car I'd vote him/her out...it sounded to me like, the others may have seen that SHE has a new car (hubby bought it while the cat was away) and perhaps the other tribemates will think she doesn't need the money. My take on what the entire comment could be (without MB editing) Helen: Man, why did my husband have to put the new car on the video he sent. I mean it's great that we have a new car but...the other people here might see a brand new car in the garage at my house or anyone elses for that matter and think...Hey, that'd be enough to vote them off. They don't need the money." Just thought I'd throw that one in for consideration. 
--always willing to play the devils advocate
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frisky 11695 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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11-08-02, 12:48 PM (EST)
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57. "RE: Ep 9 (Thu) Preview Vidcaps" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-08-02 AT 12:52 PM (EST)Good point, Mistofleas! You're right, this would have been a post-video confessional because the messages from home are always a surprise. So that blows my theory (see above) out of the water. The new-car-in-the-garage must have some relevance. EPM's misdirection is intact, too, because ppls are speculating the incomes of all the survivors, except for one - - Helen! Edited to add: What does this give us in terms of spoiler value? Well, does anyone else share Helen's warped "doesn't deserve to win because they're rich" perspective? Will they use it to "stir things up"? Hmmm...
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wildchickenhunter 3192 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-02, 01:05 PM (EST)
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60. "RE: Ep 9 (Thu) Preview Vidcaps" |
Great take on the comment....she could very wel be talking about her video from home and the impression it left on the other actors.
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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-02, 01:41 PM (EST)
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67. "RE: Ep 9 (Thu) Preview Vidcaps" |
Brilliant idea, Misto. Helen said at one of the earlier TCs that she constantly worries about how she is being perceived by the others. This fits perfectly.
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ginger 22512 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-02, 06:46 PM (EST)
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81. "RE: Ep 9 (Thu) Preview Vidcaps" |
Further, it is in keeping with the MB School of Misdirection. In fact, she may be talking totally generally in advance of the videos and the "impact" may have nothing to do with the number of cars.
It is Clay that is pictured in the vidcaps when they say one survivor may be affected by the videos, after all.
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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-02, 10:59 AM (EST)
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101. "RE: Another perspective " |
My initial impression, while watching the promo at the end of the episode, was that Helen might be talking about herself. Her game has been generally pretty good (the recipe strategy could backfire but at least it isn't as bad as an alphabet strategy), though she revealed in the first TC that she had money-issues that she brought to the game (no one else did this). Historically, only two players that I can think of were affected by personal wealth in terms of when they were voted off, Carl (targeted by the Mallrats) and Rodger (who essentially volunteered to be booted so that Elisabeth could remain in the game at least three more days).She could also be talking about Clay, I thought, because she may be looking for a tool to get him out of the game, anticipating (pre-merge) the possibility that CG might go to TC. As well, CG is up 5 to 3, so they have an expendable fifth wheel at this time should the SJ target of their choice win individual immunity. Good catch on the car-winner concept, though. The one who wins the car has never won the game, so if there is a car-winner this time she could be talking about that player. My impression was that she was talking about something seen on the videos from home, however. "If all machines were to be annihilated at one moment, so that not a knife nor lever nor rag of clothing nor anything whatsoever were left to man but his bare body alone that he was born with, and if all knowledge of mechanical laws were taken from him so that he could make no more machines, and all machine-made food destroyed so that the race of man should be left as it were naked upon a desert island, we should become extinct in six weeks." (Samuel Butler, "Erewhon")
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steppingrazor42 283 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-02, 01:55 PM (EST)
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71. "Merge?" |
Is Ken worried abot his saftey because the tribes are merged? Or is he thinking ahead to a merge? I think if the SJ's go back to TC again Ken's getting the boot anyway. Jake and Penny are the unseen alliance.
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Yogi 1206 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest"
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11-09-02, 00:55 AM (EST)
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83. "MB and his editors are at it again." |
LAST EDITED ON 11-09-02 AT 00:57 AM (EST)MB and his editors are at it again. Notice the 'yellow/gold' item on the clothesline.
 Now notice how it has changed to purple in colour
 Look under Jake's right arm and you see the ground.
 Now look under Jake's right arm. It looks like he is holding
a rock. It just does not look normal to me. My guess is that
they might have edited out either his new buff or perhaps his
immunity necklace.
 Possible Scenario:
The tribes merge after the RC.
Jake wins the IC. Ken is the obvious target so if they can 'stir things up' that he
is not an immunity threat perhaps they will target Penny instead.
They can make some comments concerning his bad back or
perhaps a sore knee. Notice that Penny is not in on the conversation. Actually from watching Ken's contribution so far I would be far
more worried about Penny as being a threat. Just some thoughts to think over.
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corcam 374 desperate attention whore postings
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11-09-02, 12:54 PM (EST)
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88. "Hat Comparison" |
Another thing we need to look at is the hat comparison between Jake and Clay...Hat on the immunity idol.. We were given a glimpse in a few episodes that Clay has used it for a hat rack In the picture of Ken and Jake the immunity idol is in the background with yet another hat... now the big question is it Clay's or Jake's 
I would assume that Clay would have a hissy fit if Jake was using his hat rack unless Sook Jai or Jake individually won immunity One of the things that sway me to a merge is Ken and his comment above about being an immunity threat and Jake's about stirring things up...
If Jake does win individual immunity that makes Ken the second in line for a Sook Jai boot... why not stir things up if you are the next to go... afterall Ken reminds me of BostonRob (whole accent and everything) might as well cause some trouble before you take that walk of shame. Ken's actions would also go with the title I believe it is this week Desperate Measures.
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zuckie 50 desperate attention whore postings
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11-09-02, 04:40 PM (EST)
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91. "Changed clothes" |
Just an idea, maybe his sleeves are rolled up.
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mizpokey 19 desperate attention whore postings
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11-09-02, 10:31 AM (EST)
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86. "look closer" |
isn't that just the rock that the immunity idol is sitting on that you are seeing under jake's arm? It is a different angle so you have to look at what is behind him... a rock.
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VanQ 87 desperate attention whore postings
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11-09-02, 09:13 PM (EST)
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95. "A merge and GOLD buffs" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-09-02 AT 09:16 PM (EST)
Looks like individual Immunity challenge. 
Actually on second thought, does it look like this challenge is in pairs?? Brian and Helen, Jan and Ted.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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11-10-02, 03:36 PM (EST)
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97. "RE: Ep 9 (Thu) Preview Vidcaps" |
Throwing this into the income discussion:
Since it's Helen's perception of being well off that we're discussing, we should look at it from Helen's point of view. Helen is born, raised, and still lives in Honolulu.Highest food costs in the nation, highest auto costs (due to shipping) and very high prices for the type of single family home with a garage that she will see in the videos. Simple fact is that Helen won't be buying a home on her Navy salary, even though I would hope that the military makes a cost-of-living adjustment for geographical location. (I don't know, someone here with military family background probably knows.) I see posts here about a house that costs $275,000. I took a quick look at the Honolulu residential real estate market. In Helen's world, you can buy a house for $300,000 that's sold Value in Land Only--meaning the house is termite-destroyed and you can plan to bulldoze and build a new one. Point being, that $700,000 buys a pretty nice 3 bedroom, 2 BA house in a decent neighborhood. $500,000 minimum to not get junk. I'm sure Helen is aware that things cost less in Texas, North Carolina, and Louisiana, but it's also common to translate what you see in quality of house and vehicles into your own terms of what that would mean in the way of wealth. So bottom line, Helen's obviously not on a high rung in the economic ladder or she wouldn't make those remarks, and she needs the million dollars just to get to middle class in Honolulu. If she perceives someone as being very well set with a good-sized house and cars she'll probably see them as wealthy. btw, I lived in Brian's home town when I graduated from high school and went to junior college there. (It's close to Sky Raider's turf too, but I haven't seen him posting for awhile). Quartz Hill CA wasn't affluent then and I doubt it is now--mostly full of average tract homes. It'll be interesting to see Brian's house; I don't expect anything too fancy. I think it was Pastor John who said Brian was looking at Survivor as a way to start a college fund for his kid, which tells me that Brian is presenting himself as someone who needs the money. If he had a nice car he could always say he got a great deal because he works in the business. To me the most telling thing in Helen's comment is that she's thinking about voting in the near future--which she hasn't done in awhile. And if she's talking about either Jake or Penny (likely), then she is expecting to vote as a merged tribe. 
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p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
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