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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 10-18-02, 07:13 AM (EST) "New Twists in MB's Editing" Here's a little going away present for y'all. As I watched the show last night, some suspicions I held seem to be more and more confirmed. MB has a new editing technique: He's mixing truth with the misdirection. To wit: 1) Erin has been shown only a few times, but everything she says is dead-on. She said they wanted to throw a challenge to get rid of "some people". Last night (Ep.5), she talked about Shii Ann not being as "in" with the others as she (Shii Ann) thinks. While most will say that was MB doing a final, small misdirection on the bootee for Ep. 5, I think that was EXTREMELY IMPORTANT for upcoming episodes. 2) The adage that "revealed strategies are failures" and The Clown Rule that "MB never reveals a successful strategy until he absolutely has to" looked to be broken asunder last night. Brian and Ted are widely believed and spoiled to be in the Final Three. But they were absolutely and clearly shown to be making an alliance. This isn't totally new: we saw it in S-III with Lex offering Ethan membership in their alliance very early. But it's not MB's usual practice. So unless we're all shocked by Ted and Brian being voted off soon, I'd say this is something different from MB. 3) MB is "setting up" future episodes, and in so doing gives us some spoiler information. He did this in S-2, went way away from it in S-3 (to make an anti-Spoiler point, and a successful one at that), and didn't build up in S-4 (except with previews). In this episode, he set up the men/women thing with Ghandia/Ted, he set up the Jed/Steph/Robb exclusion (and eventual expulsion), and he looks to be (IMHO) setting up for Robb and Shii Ann to go fairly soon. 4) With the boringness of this series so far, and the potential for, if not actual event of, rating drops, MB is showing his hand more to the spoilers in his attempts to gain and hold the non-spoiler audience. This can only be helpful to the spoiling audience. 5) Information is flowing quite freely. Although some of it, like the Snickers spoiler, is bad (at best) or bogus(at worst), a LOT of good info is getting out... and from the players themselves. GDiva gave a wealth of info; weight spoilers are plentiful and so-far pretty accurate; Clay's overheard remarks about CG not going back to TC for awhile, etc. MB usually keeps a MUCH tighter rein on this stuff. Now info is leaking like a sieve. Anyway, there you have it. This is not an all-comprehensive study of MB, so remember that as you pick this apart with your comments. Vote change? It's still Georgia 18, Tennessee 13 in Athens. Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    blending the old and the new sorgee 10-18-02 1    RE: blending the old and the new SurvivinDawg 10-18-02 2        RE: blending the old and the new evilj9 10-18-02 3            RE: blending the old and the new ulalame 10-18-02 5                The Promos Wacko Jacko 10-18-02 12        Redemption sorgee 10-18-02 4    RE: blending the old and the new I_AM_HE 10-18-02 13  RE: New Twists in MB's Editing steppingrazor42 10-18-02 6    RE: New Twists in MB's Editing ZJ 10-18-02 7        RE: New Twists in MB's Editing survivormitsx 10-18-02 8            Jan's Editing Spidey 10-18-02 9                RE: Jan's Editing survivormitsx 10-18-02 11                    RE: Jan's Editing dabo 10-20-02 17  The new twist? idiotcowboy 10-18-02 10  maybe we should add face time to th... I_AM_HE 10-18-02 14  RE: New Twists in MB's Editing sleeeve 10-18-02 15    RE: New Twists in MB's Editing SurvivinDawg 10-21-02 18        RE: New Twists in MB's Editing AZ_Leo 10-21-02 20        MB on 99x this morning GTmike 11-22-02 22  Obvious Editing IslandFever 10-19-02 16  Addendum: Silver Platter Redux SurvivinDawg 10-21-02 19  RE: New Twists in MB's Editing MatineeIdol 11-22-02 21

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sorgee 1455 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson" 10-18-02, 09:31 AM (EST) 1. "blending the old and the new" i think you might be onto something. i had a hard time making my episode 5 picks because of all the information that was out there (and because i'm generally not a good spoiler anyway...). when i had to make my picks for the board, i went with shii ann because of the wacky editing and it seemed to be the most logical thing i could do with all of the information that i had gotten during the week. however, when push came to shove, i selected steph for my spoiler island picks because i felt that she had been "redeemed" in the prior episode. (and we all know about the redemption editing in the show...) i think that this season we need to really pay attention to subtle changes in editing and really look for some new spoiling techniques.   Top

SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 10-18-02, 09:36 AM (EST) 2. "RE: blending the old and the new" Good call on the redemption of Steph, sorgee! I'd totally missed that one. Now the question: Do you think they were "redeeming" Shii Ann in her conversation with Jake about wanting to cry? "All of us necessarily hold many casual opinions that are ludicrously wrong simply because life is far too short for us to think through even a small fraction of the topics that we come across. -- Julian Simon Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged   Top

evilj9 29 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 10-18-02, 10:05 AM (EST) 3. "RE: blending the old and the new" Sounds like a good idea, Dawg. The misdirection could be showing the disagreement between Robb and Ken, when they will actually boot Shii Ann, since her story seems to be concluding. However, the flip side of the arguement could be that EPMB is trying to lead the spoiling community AWAY from a Robb boot, since showing the disagreement with Ken would make him the obvious boot. There is usually one boot on a silver platter. This year, Ghandia was on the platter. Any thoughts? As always, in Evil, J9   Top

ulalame 778 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 10-18-02, 01:00 PM (EST) 5. "RE: blending the old and the new" Actually, if you think about it, Steph was on a silver platter too -- that was one of the reasons why I didn't think she was going to go last night -- I couldn't believe that EMP would give us two obvious boots in a row. My thoughts on editing last night were along the lines of SDawg. Everything in the promos for this episode were total red herrings. Had we ignored the promos as hype, and spent less time surmising as to how the "switch" would impact the game, we would have all gotten to the answer of Steph, because she was clearly the most logical bootee for SJ. In trying to read into the promos, instead of taking them at face value (i.e. I think that since Robb's injury was shown, we should have known it was totally overblown, and would EMP have shown us the "anyone wanna switch teams" quote if anyone actually had?), we are being led astray. I think this season is going to be predictable--a 5 on 5 merge, with CG winning the tie vote, and now that I think about it, the promos remind me of season one, when EMP did everything in his power to make us think Rich was going to go every week, rather than the logical pagonging that actually happened. From here on out, I'm taking the promos with a grain of salt.   Top

Wacko Jacko 2438 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Seventeen Magazine Model" 10-18-02, 04:54 PM (EST) 12. "The Promos" I think sometimes we miss the obvisious. Burnett shows what he does in the promos to get higher ratings. Why was Robb shown getting injured? Because injury means big ratings. He didn't show the actual injury with Mike Skupin but I remember he basically told us there was going to be an injury. He lead us to believe it were a croc not a fire. As for switching tribes, what difference does it make that no one took the switch. Burnett was trying to stir or interest and boost ratings. He did that. Whether someone switched or not I believe he would of hinted at the switch. Bottomline he shows what will get the best ratings for that weeks shows.   Top

sorgee 1455 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson" 10-18-02, 12:25 PM (EST) 4. "Redemption" Well, so far I can see the following possible redemptions for Sook Jai: Shii Ann and her conversation with Jake. While this COULD be redemption, I think that this was more of a foreshadowing of the others being picked off one by one. Don't forget earlier comments about Shii Ann and Jake being the smarter of the tribemates. And to have that kind of a conversation in such a vulnerable atmosphere, you would have to think that those 2 have some sort of alliance. So, in this case I think MB was showing us an alliance. Robb's prayer after they got the chickens. (I've said it before and I'll keep saying it - I nearly fell off my couch and started screaming "OH MY HECK" when he prayed. It was totally unexpected.) I think that they are trying to show a softer side of Robb. Actually, it kinda reminds me of the Robbfather last season, but on a much smaller scale. And of the 2, I think that Robb's story has had a much more definitive arc to it than has Shii Ann's.. Plus, as someone else had mentioned, Shii Ann has been in a narritive role so far. I think she hangs in for at least one more episode. So, between the spoiler that Chuay Gaun has a winning streak for a few more and the redemption/story arc factor, I would pick Robb for the boot if I had to pick today. Of course, I could change my mind. I'm prone to do that!   Top

I_AM_HE 6123 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 10-18-02, 05:26 PM (EST) 13. "RE: blending the old and the new" that really is an excellent observation about redemption. we really haven't been using this as a spoiler tool this season, and its usually one of the best ones we have. i mistook this redemption for subtle editing that Steph was not quite so alienated from her tribe as it seemed (which i think also turned out to be true, just not enough to outweigh her past misdeeds) that's something we definitely need to keep our eyes on   Top

steppingrazor42 283 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 10-18-02, 01:46 PM (EST) 6. "RE: New Twists in MB's Editing" Dawg wrote: MB is showing his hand more to the spoilers in his attempts to gain and hold the non-spoiler audience. This can only be helpful to the spoiling audience. I started to think this after Ep3, I thought there was no way Ghandia would go if they were playing up the conflict and showing her as so much an outsider. Then we get the switch hand feed to us in all the previews for Ep5. I don't think it's some mastermind plan, MB's just trying to lure non-spoiler people to watch, giving them some juicy bits to bite on. When the previews are too cryptic and choppy non-spoilera are easily uninterested. There are viewers wo just want to sit down every Thursday and JUST WATCH, having something to look foward to (ex. a tempting switch offer, Dood getting chomped) make it more interesting to the non-spoilers. So far I definitely think MB is not hiding as much in editing and previews this time around. But who knows what the next couple of week have in store.   Top

ZJ 137 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 10-18-02, 02:44 PM (EST) 7. "RE: New Twists in MB's Editing" Maybe because there's nothing fresh and exciting to edit? Remember Jeff's interview where he said that the survivors in S5 were clearly playing the game. SJ, Ken and Penny have been lying, Erin and Jake and Shii Ann have some sort of alliance with them, CG, Brian and Ted, Helen is playing the game... And Jeff also says that the survivors don't make the same mistakes this time round.   Top

survivormitsx 271 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 10-18-02, 03:47 PM (EST) 8. "RE: New Twists in MB's Editing" Okay, you can "call me crazy" but maybe its not Robb nor Shii Ann or anyone on SJ that has to be redeemed...what if its Jan? I think i'm probably the only person to actually like Jan, but her editing is absolutely off the wall. I mean i don't know whats the whole point to it, but review your tapes! Whenever their talking about a challenge, who do they subtely focus on? Jan. When theres a conflict or others are talking, they blue out the two people and once again subtely focus on Jan. First episode, we see Jan as a nice old lady; emotional, but laid back...and from the challenges, an excellent swimmer. Episode two we have the whole Jan lounging in the water, but it was more of a comical side of Jan, and not entirely negative. We got a positive of her swimming capabilities, but she was unable to unhook the string. In episode three, we get "Jan's calendar." I guess i'm the only one who thought anything of the calendar, but i mean c'mon, it was subtlely focused on the previous episode, and then we get a nice view of Jan marking off her calendar in the next. Although Jan was in episode 3, she didn't even have one confessional (i might be wrong about this, but im sure it wasn't more than one). Now, in episode four, Jan had a few more confessionals, but then was "manipulated" by Ghandia to vote off Clay- which was clearly shown. Jan knew she was safe for the week, and even though she was edited negatively for the reward challenge, she still remained "pure" or overall the nicest person on Chewie. Now, this episode I consider quite odd. We go back to Jan where she gets the first (and might i say her only) confesional in the beginning of the episode saying that she knows she'll be next if they lose immunity, and that she knows that Clay's against her now even though Clay knew she was manipulated. At the reward challenge, when we get their thoughts to switching, Jan's was very interesting: "This is my tribe, and i'll go down with them (or something to this extent." Honorable? Yes, I think it is. We then get Jan's happy dance, which i personally found hilarious. The only person who didn't like it was Clay; Brian was shown this epi saying "Jan will be next" and Helen said this, too, but the only one who didn't say anything about it was Ted, and i still don't know why, but the fact is Ted and Brian have an alliance now, but is Clay really involved, is it Helen in there, or is it just a pact to the final 2? But thats getting off topic, back to Jan. So we have some pretty good spoilers pointing to Jan going farther, and its odd, because Jan seems like a different person each episode, but the only thing which has remained constant for her is that we've seen shes "honorable and loyal". The spoilers pointing in her favor are: Weight loss spoiler, Clay's "Don't expect to see Chewy at TC for awhile" spoiler, Jeff Probst's "Jan's trouble" (I personally think (or am hoping) that she becomes a IC whore coe merge...) spoiler, and even though not huge, "The importance of being eldest." Sorry for rambling, but i just can't help but thinking that there's more there than we are seeing. If your happy and you know it, Do the Cooper dance!!   Top

Spidey 6259 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 10-18-02, 04:14 PM (EST) 9. "Jan's Editing" >So we have some >pretty good spoilers pointing to >Jan going farther, and its >odd, because Jan seems like >a different person each episode, >but the only thing which >has remained constant for her >is that we've seen shes >"honorable and loyal". I agree that if CG can avoid TC until merge, Jan can go at least almost all the way as a non-threat, provided she does not turn into an actual raisin and the starving survivors eat her. >Probst's "Jan's trouble" spoiler, I think I missed this one. Please clarify. I am also leaning toward Jan exhibiting the bizarre behavior next ep., as she really does seem to be losing her mind. But it is really going to have to be OUT THERE behavior for us to notice a change from what we have seem so far!   Top

survivormitsx 271 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 10-18-02, 04:34 PM (EST) 11. "RE: Jan's Editing" Spidey, the "Jan's Trouble" spoiler came from a preshow interview that JP had on a radio show, the hosts asked him to say one thing about certain castaways which they picked at random, and someone was like "I think Jan will be gone soon,oh hey Jeff what do you think of Jan?" He chuckled at the guy, and then said "Jan's trouble." I hope that clarifies...and i forgot that interview in the paper where she started showing them stuff from thailand, but then had to stop...i guess that could be a spoiler for her too. If your happy and you know it, Do the Cooper dance!!   Top

dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 10-20-02, 11:44 PM (EST) 17. "RE: Jan's Editing" Jan is trouble? oooooooooooooookay. What did JP mean by that? We've seen her "trouble" Helen (the water run) and "trouble" Clay (not reading the note), is this going to a consistant Jan theme? ARRRRRRR!!!!   Top

idiotcowboy 1135 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest" 10-18-02, 04:25 PM (EST) 10. "The new twist?" It appears to me the new twist is to shove the weekly boot down our thoat. In fact you could argue that MB has used it every single episode this season, but especially with Tanya, Ghandia, and now Steph. My guess is he follows the pattern this week and Robb, mister outsider is our next evictee in what has become a very straightforward season that many of us (including myself) have insisted on making hard than it is. Don't get me wrong we need to be on the alert for when MB changes his tactic, but at least for now it has become a pattern that is difficult to ignore. -ICB   Top

I_AM_HE 6123 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 10-18-02, 05:37 PM (EST) 14. "maybe we should add face time to this list" LAST EDITED ON 10-18-02 AT 05:37 PM (EST) good points dawg. this goes along with your 2nd point somewhat, and as there is a "new" discussion on face time, perhpas we ought to consider that MB is doing things differently this time around in this regard as well. we know so much more about CG than we do about SJ. while we've gotten the SJ moments that point out the Jed/Steph/Robb alienation, and that supports the high face time = near boot time, we've also gotten tons of CG, especially Brian, Helen, Ted, and Clay, who we all think go far. Perhaps he is letting us know the final group more this time, as I assume (but am not sure, since i didn't watch S1) he did in S1 (at least in Rich's case)   Top

sleeeve 3456 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 10-18-02, 11:28 PM (EST) 15. "RE: New Twists in MB's Editing" "Burnett's Editing" Remember that Burnett is rumored to already be on location preparing to film (or starting to film???) Survivor 6. The editing that you're seeing of this show is being done by his most trusted staff members (who were also responsible for editing S3 in his absence). MB has a very large part in deciding what overall story will be told, and also approves the final cut, but its not like he's right there in the editing room helping to pick out the clips that will be used (as he was for S1, S2, and S4) In you post, you mention that we saw some early alliances develop that ultimately proved successful. We might want to watch for similar story-telling techniques in S5 as well. Just my two cents. You never know what might be up my sleeeve...   Top

SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 10-21-02, 07:25 AM (EST) 18. "RE: New Twists in MB's Editing" The editing that you're seeing of this show is being done by his most trusted staff members (who were also responsible for editing S3 in his absence). To this end, I think MB has been to work on the editing and most of S-5 is "in the can". MB's staff may be making some changes based on ratings and what polls show the audience likes/dislikes, but I suspect most of the work is done. Remember that Burnett is rumored to already be on location preparing to film (or starting to film???) Survivor 6. ,,,staff members (who were also responsible for editing S3 in his absence). You make an excellent point: Many have said that S-5 really looks a lot like S-3... well, this could easily be the reason why! "All of us necessarily hold many casual opinions that are ludicrously wrong simply because life is far too short for us to think through even a small fraction of the topics that we come across. -- Julian Simon Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged   Top

AZ_Leo 3526 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 10-21-02, 01:01 PM (EST) 20. "RE: New Twists in MB's Editing" Also, for the last several weeks he has been in Fiji doing Eco-Challenge which started Oct 11. There had to have been some prep time prior to it's start so he has had other things to keep him occupied. Eco-Challenge New Zealand immediately followed by filming of S4 happened during the airing of S3. http://www.ecochallenge.com/fiji/index.html   Top

GTmike 1255 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson" 11-22-02, 12:06 PM (EST) 22. "MB on 99x this morning" Sleeve and Dawg, to confirm some stuff. Mark Burnett was on 99x radio station this morning. MB said that: 1) He is always there for all of the filming of each shows. 2) Jeff is "down there" (no place named) filming and MB came back up to the states to do some post-production editing but that he will then be back down where Jeff is to be with filming. 3) He specifically said that it is a little hard on him right now b/c he is editing one show and filming another. He said "doing post production and filming at the same time." The rest was, yeah, survivor is great b/c it is complex and true to life. He mentioned about the wall challenge last night and how that is like life b/c basically a decision could come back to haunt you in the real world(not said in a spoiler fashion but in a look at how survivor is like life fashion). He laughed at the notion that all of the eye candy is gone but said that "great characters were left."   Top

IslandFever 205 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 10-19-02, 00:21 AM (EST) 16. "Obvious Editing" I think last season MB went way too far off base with all the deceptive Neleh backward editing and people were not happy when Vee won. Vee's character was never redeemed and it did not tie up any loose ends or make logical sense when she won. So now MB has swung to the other extreme and been showing us a story line that makes sense. And giving us obvious reasons for each person to go.   Top

SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 10-21-02, 07:47 AM (EST) 19. "Addendum: Silver Platter Redux" Thanks for all the comments so far. One thing that was talked about is the "obvious boot" being put out there on a silver platter for us. There has been a wealth of spoiler info this season, and much of it has been surprisingly accurate to date. This would make it SEEM to us spoilers that some of the boots are fairly obvious. But MB also has the non-spoiling audience to deal with, and this affects much of his editing. While earlier seasons have had one or maybe two obvious boots, S-5 is shaping up to be so obvious that we might get several bootees on a "silver platter", so to speak. For example: It's been clear to spoilers for some time that SJ must make some visits to TC. This has happened, and must continue to. So Robb, Shii Ann, Jed and Stephanie have been edited strongly, while Darksiders Penny, Jake, Ken and Erin rarely show up at all. Ghandia was the first "silver platter" boot, so obvious that MB couldn't try to hide it. I also think Robb is such a character. He *IS* the only "good TV" storyline for SJ so far, but he's also so obviously on the "outs" with the Darksiders that he'll be booted soon for sure... and spoiler info supports this. Stephanie was also very obvious to us as a candidate... although she was only edited that way for the NON-spoiler audience in the last 15 minutes of the show. So my point: Expect to see more "silver platter" boots. Just part of the difference in editing for this season. "All of us necessarily hold many casual opinions that are ludicrously wrong simply because life is far too short for us to think through even a small fraction of the topics that we come across. -- Julian Simon Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged   Top

MatineeIdol 104 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 11-22-02, 10:12 AM (EST) 21. "RE: New Twists in MB's Editing" >2) The adage that "revealed strategies >are failures" and The Clown >Rule that "MB never reveals >a successful strategy until he >absolutely has to" looked to >be broken asunder last night. > Brian and Ted are >widely believed and spoiled to >be in the Final Three. > But they were absolutely >and clearly shown to be >making an alliance. This >isn't totally new: we saw >it in S-III with Lex >offering Ethan membership in their >alliance very early. But >it's not MB's usual practice. > So unless we're all >shocked by Ted and Brian >being voted off soon, I'd >say this is something different >from MB. I thought that perhaps this theory deserved revisiting - I am starting to believe that Brian and his masterminding are being shown to us exactly like Rich Hatch's. Rich Hatch was arguably the best player in Survivor so far (if nothing else because he did it first) and in Survivors since we have generally not been shown the winning strategies. However, perhaps Brian control was so reminiscent of Rich Hatch's puppetmaster routine that we are again being shown how one man managed from day one to take control of his destiny and sucessfully played it out until the end. It would certainly make up for last season's "HUH?" victory by Vee. I know only time will tell, but right not Brian appears to be in the cat-bird seat.   Top

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