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PLEASE NOTE: The Reality TV World Message Boards are filled with desperate
attention-seekers pretending to be one big happy PG/PG13-rated family. Don't
be fooled. Trying to get everyone to agree with you is like herding cats,
but intolerance for other viewpoints is NOT welcome and respect for other
posters IS required at all times. Jump in and play, and you'll soon find out
how easy it is to fit in, but save your drama for your mama. All members are
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As entertainment critic Roger
Ebert once said, "If you disagree with something I write, tell me so, argue
with me, correct me--but don't tell me to shut up. That's not the American way."
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"A Separate Thread for Outside Spoilers? You Decide"
AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-17-02, 10:21 PM (EST)
 
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"A Separate Thread for Outside Spoilers? You Decide" |
I raised this issue as part of this thread. OFG suggested that I bring it to the main board as a separate thread, and I think she's right.I don't enjoy seeing Snewser, whom I think of as a friend, get alternately praised and bashed on Thursday of each week. However, I understand the objections that are raised to the weekly "Snewser pick": that it removes all the fun from spoiling, that we focus on it to the exclusion of all else, etc. I know there are a lot of people who would like to spoil without the influence of a generally-accurate prediction. During S2, we faced this issue, when everyone had to discuss the EBT, the Boston Herald, and "Jesus" before spoiling, because they all had sources. We decided that we'd set up a weekly "don't go if you don't wanna know" thread that people could use to discuss the outside predictions that always seemed to be correct. We called it something along the lines of "Episode xx Outside Picks: Don't Go If You Don't Wanna Know". It seemed to ease the tension between those people who wanted to spoil with no help and those who wanted to rely on the (unknown)sources reported by the others. No discussion of the outside picks was permitted We could do that again. Should we? If you think so, or if you don't, please post your thoughts in this thread, and we'll follow the wishes of the majority of respondents. I don't want to have every thread on the board discuss Snewser, especially when there are people who would rather not know what Snewser's doing. Yet we don't want to ignore Snewser either! This is an attempt at a compromise ... or maybe it's just further evidence that I don't know what I'm doing ... but whichever, let me know what you think.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-17-02, 10:43 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: A Separate Thread for Outside Spoilers? You Decide" |
AyaK,
on the first thread the discussion immediately turned (rightly) to defining what spoilers would get sequestered.I would propose that it's only the official picks on Thursday. There is one class of spoilers for which we debate as much whether they are bogus as what they mean--example: Snickers. Of course they belong on the Spoilers board. Other season long hints from Snewser or Paratrooper about their boot radar, again, must be fair game to be brought over here and analyzed--because they DO require decoding, they are not definite, and that is what Spoiling is (in one aspect)--separating the gold from the BS. The other type of Spoiler is when one of the people who are rarely if ever wrong when they make a pick comes out on Thursday and says something like:
Newsflash just in: buh-bye Steph, pick up your lovely parting gifts and forget them slippers.... That IS essentially having the answer handed to you. That could go in a special thread, quite easily, not hard to decide whether or not it should be there, and doesn't hamper discussion during the spoiling week. The vote thread should be left alone. Don't go if you don't want to know, period, no warnings should be necessary. If people are disgruntled because of game picks, maybe the deadline on Spoiler Island could be a little earlier, dunno. That's up to Webby. They're just games. In that area, I should be as disgruntled tonight as anyone. For most of today my Steph pick was in the minority and I probably would have jumped up a notch. Thanks to the newsflash what do you bet everyone went and changed their picks? Yes, it does make doing well in Spoiler Island a hollow victory if you just lifted the pick from someone else. But hey, that's up to each person's conscience and philosophy on game-playing. 
If I had a source, I'd sing it in the morning, I'd sing it in the evening, all over this l-a-a-nd..."
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cowboyroo 590 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
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10-17-02, 11:54 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: A Separate Thread for Outside Spoilers? You Decide" |
Well said Outfrontgirl. I was going to post here, but you expressed my thoughts 50 times better than I ever could. I was on the early bandwagon with Jed and Stephanie, and it does kinda bite when everyone changes their votes the last minute going with the guaranteed source.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-18-02, 00:32 AM (EST)
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18. "RE: A Separate Thread for Outside Spoilers? You Decide" |
Webby,as I understand the issue, some people want to spoil purely through spec or through spoilers that need to be figured out. They enjoy "the process." (So do I.) They don't like to have it handed on a plate at the last moment, or they don't think there's any point to spoiling the hard way if someone leaks the answer from a source. I'm not in this camp but I understand the point of view. My own issue is I'm tired of hearing rampant complaints about Snewser and ACME spoiling everything on show day and after the show. I'm also tired of listening to people insult these hard-working spoilers and say that they have no process--only sources, which is simply not true. They are great analytical spoilers who may also at times get a source, and they work to find the sources, so how is that not real spoiling? Sorry people are frustrated that their process is not publicly posted, but that's just how it goes. You find a back door into the bank vault that someone occasionally leaves unguarded and then you publish on the internet just how it works? It's going to be sealed up right quick.  I proposed the separate thread in hopes this might satisfy people who are bummed out that the "answers" appear on our board. But if the complaint is not that they appear here at SB, but that the information is published at all over at SNN and ACME and by PT---well, then there's no point in our changing anything. The picks will be published, whether we like it or not. Some people define Spoiling as Spoiling Mark Burnett's security by any means possible. Who are we to impose our definition of fun Spoiling on the whole Spoiling community? I would simply like the weekly complaining about source spoiling to stop. It's tedious and futile and most of all inequitable to hard-working dedicated Spoilers who are SHARING their information with us--not just for their glory but to satisfy our curiosity. We use them and then turn around and abuse them. Not fair!
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SurvivorBlows 15230 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-18-02, 09:48 AM (EST)
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28. "RE: A Separate Thread for Outside Spoilers? You Decide" |
OFG, your issue seems more about what you see to be some "unfair" critisism of other site picks and less about "protecting" the "pure spec" eyes of SB.com spoiler board visitors.I don't see it as SB.com's responsibility to resolve the public relations problems of Acme, Snewser, and others -- as groups or individuals, they've opted to enact their own public policies, and they have to deal with the consequences of those policies. If they don't want to continue to endure the speculation or critisism, then it's certainly within their power to take their own steps to address the situation -- something that for whatever reason, they don't seem interested in doing. Acme doesn't release anything until after 1PM on Thursday's or so. Snewser "insider picks" (the two that I recall this season) seem to not come until reallllyyy late in the afternoon. For those who are concerned about "real" advance knowledge of the game leaking out to them, I have the same advice to them that I have to the Central/Mountain/West Coast folks -- if it's THAT BIG an issue for you, the safest thing is to get your postings done in the morning and then stay off the spoiler board until the show finishes airing in your local area. -SB
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katem 3315 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
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10-18-02, 00:33 AM (EST)
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19. "RE: A Separate Thread for Outside Spoilers? You Decide" |
>I'm trying to understand the issue
>-- if you don't want
>to know, why are you
>in the spoilers forum in
>the first place? Thanks Webby, that is exactly what I was thinking. Forgive me all, but this whole deal is like someone complaining, that peeps gave away info on the show in the East Coast Thread. If someone on the West coast does not want to know what happens, then don't open that thread. As for Spoiler Island, it could be divided with standard and unspoiled players, just like Survivor: Deadpool. It might be more work for you Webby, so it's just a thought. 
(c) 2002 IceCat Originals, Inc. All rights reserved.
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-18-02, 06:29 AM (EST)
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26. "Isn't it the same thing?!?!" |
I *TOTALLY, TOTALLY* agree with you, Webby.Furthermore to this point, while we're at it, let's just put Krautboy's and Outfrontgirl's spoiler/analysis posts in that separate thresd also... no? Why not? It's the exact same thing as the SNewser prediction! In my opinion, SNewser's info, Paratrooper's info, etc. are just part of the overall spoiling information out there! Why is it that we can discuss Ghandia's Stars or that stupid Snickers spoiler, but NOT talk about SNewser's or ABT's analysis of the game? If I rely on SNewser's info and vote accordingly, and SNewser is wrong, then *I* am wrong! In fact, this season I get worried if my pick is the same as ABT's(!), no offence intended. To me, this is all just part of the spoiling game. When SNewser came out with Jed and there were some vote changes here, there were a bunch of people that bitterly, I mean BITTERLY complained and demanded that we shouldn't be allowed to change our votes! For this reason, I'm going to start voting very late, impressions of lemmingdom be damned. I'm also tired of the SNewser bashing and the crying that is going on around here, and I'm strongly considering withdrawing from spoiler discussions around here -- "retiring", as shakestheclown put it. It's just not fun trying to play the game when everyone bitches at those who (try to) play the game well. 
Vote change? It's still Georgia 18, Tennessee 13.Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-17-02, 11:31 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: A Separate Thread for Outside Spoilers? You Decide" |
Oh yeah, don't change Spoiler Island. That essentially puts me back 24 hours cause I really can't do this from work and I barely get home in time now. I expect I'm not the only one.
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Bungler 497 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star"
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10-17-02, 11:32 PM (EST)
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11. "a moot point?" |
LAST EDITED ON 10-17-02 AT 11:37 PM (EST)For whatever it's worth, wouldn't posting a separate Snewser (and related "Don't go, if you don't want to know"-style predictions) thread be a moot point? No matter what, Snewser's pick, whether it's dropped at the last minute or hinted at from Friday on throughout the week, is going to be discussed in other threads, will be used as evidence or justification of someone else's pick, etc, and will not simply be discussed in the thread we're thinking of adding. Then again, I'm not sure I understand what some people seem to want. If it's a Sucks-style "Across The Board Picks" thread, I'd love it, but I already get it at Sucks. I usually use that thread to see how the tide is turning. If there's something completely shocking or unusual, I tend to venture out to that particular site to see if the people there are discussing something that I haven't seen elsewhere. Who knows what that might lead to? Anyway, if I were voting yea or nay on this one, I'd say nay. No matter if you post a separate thread to accomodate Snewser-style surprise picks, someone (a newbie or even a regular) is very likely to start an additional topic anyway screaming "Snewser picked ______!!!" And let's not forget one thing: this doesn't happen every week. A lot of Snewser's prediction work this season has come from exactly the same material we're all discussing here anyway. He doesn't get tipped off every week. For the hell of it, I'm almost hoping he changes his prediction suddenly one week and it's completely wrong. I don't care if he did such a thing deliberately or accidentally, I just hope it would prove a point. Snewser's got better contacts than most, but he isn't always 100%.
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mistofleas 8043 desperate attention whore postings
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10-17-02, 11:36 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: A Separate Thread for Outside Spoilers? You Decide" |
Okay, I did what I said I wasn't going to do any more. I read the first post and replied to it. So sue me!My take is the same as when this was brought up in the first place. If you don't want to spoil the show, don't come here! No separate thread is needed. Take the information from whatever source you want, be it Bunglers (and others) vid-caps or the fab anaysis of any number of great spoilers out there (on SB or NOT on SB) and make your picks from there. I just think that a separate thread will make things a lot more convaluted (forgive the misspelling) than they need to be. 
--is now going to bed because obviously her spelling has gone out the window. However, she stands by her "Spoil Not, Be Here Not" mentality
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forehead 932 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"
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10-18-02, 10:56 AM (EST)
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30. "RE: A Separate Thread for Outside Spoilers? You Decide" |
Add another vote to not change a thing from forehead.
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Drive My Car 20045 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-17-02, 11:59 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: A Separate Thread for Outside Spoilers? You Decide" |
I don't care how we do it, as long as there is still GAME to be played during the week. As long as we still gather the info and speculate on it's meaning, it's all good to me. Being right isn't as important to me as how we play with it.Ok, so the pick is gonna show up,( at least it looks that way this season) the Fun is still in figuring out the clues. Every season of Survivor MB has changed the way he plays us, lets keep playing it. EBug
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mistofleas 8043 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-18-02, 00:10 AM (EST)
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17. "RE: A Separate Thread for Outside Spoilers? You Decide" |
LAST EDITED ON 10-18-02 AT 00:10 AM (EST)*hugs her some bug* Now I'll tally the votes: For a Separate Thread: 2...no 1....I mean 3...errrr... For Not a Separate Thread: 4...um...no 3.... *crap* I don't know how the vote thread people do it each week, but count me OUT!!!
--really wants to just read the spoilers and not give a "fig" about voting cuz that's what it's all about in her mind
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buddy 4 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
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10-18-02, 00:58 AM (EST)
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20. "RE: A Separate Thread for Outside Spoilers? You Decide" |
I am struck at the inconsistancy of this whole thread. You spoil here. Some spoiler's opinion is better than others because it might be more valid? Everyone has been going over and over again the snickers spoiler, that was wrong about Stephanie. TDT had a great thought, way to complicated for survivor, but it was fun to hash out. ABT and Snewser have been wrong. The main point here is that ABT and Snewser never post there final boot picks til thurs. If you havent made your pick by then, you need their help anyway. Yes, they can create a lemming effect to lop-side a vote, but if you are so great at spoiling and dont want the masses to come to your conclusion, pick a survivor game site that rewards early picks or that closes picks before the final spoilers predictions are announced. Yes, their spoiling can create a lemming effect, but what are the rest of us doing by being a part of everyone's collective analysis and great deduction when we vote when we read spoiling sites? We are better because we did it before the "big guns" made their picks? I hesitate to post this because i am new, but i really respect the no-nonsense posts here and i am looking forward to reading and being a part of the great analysis and spoiling of survivor.
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ulalame 778 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"
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10-18-02, 01:00 AM (EST)
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21. "RE: A Separate Thread for Outside Spoilers? You Decide" |
LAST EDITED ON 10-18-02 AT 01:01 AM (EST)Here are my thoughts on the issue: First, a little background, since I don’t participate in chats or the like. I’ve been a part of the survivor spoiler scene since the get go, and I was an original poster on survivorsucks.com. I’ve watched the spoiler sites come and go, and know who the players are, by handle if not personally.
Frankly, the fun for me all along has been, what you might call, “pure spoiling.” I don’t mind that anyone’s got a source–in fact, I pay lots of attention to those items, such as weight loss spoilers, Debb’s friends, Diane’s list and the Gdiva posts. My personal gripe arises with what appears to be people who are getting advance information on who the boot is. Not spoilers, not hints, not clues, but the straight dope. Now, I ask you, is the game fun if we know who’s going to win? What’s the point, then? All week, we all do our best in trying to figure out who the week’s pick is, based upon the info at hand–whatever the source. I have to say, I had Tanya to go week two based on spoiling and intuition alone, and I stuck with it. I was right. I wasn’t right last week when I was theorizing that someone other than Ghandia was going to get the boot, and I have to admit that as Thurs. afternoon wore on and everyone disagreed with my pick, that I changed it for the games. I admit it–it’s great to be right and to win! We are all culpable. However, what’s gotten my goat this season is, like week 3 (Jed) and this week, is when there are divergent positions, that spoilers with
major credibility backed down on their picks because the “source” for the season (in S2 I believe that the EBT/ABT had it, here it appears to be Snewser and Paratrooper) came out with a last minute declaration, based upon no spoiling or theory, but merely posted a picture or a phrase, that so-and-so is safe, and so-and-so is going, leading to people to doubt their work all week and change their picks. I mean really, we will find out we are wrong in one hour when the show airs,
so why back down then? It undermines the viability of all the vote threads and the spoiler games, because what’s the glory in winning the game, if you only ended up at the top because you
changed your pick based upon what appears to be an inside source? I acknowledge everyone’s support of Snewser and Paratrooper, and, frankly, if they’re basing their picks on supposition rather than inside information, they totally rock as spoilers! But if they have insider info directly relating to who is booted, I think they should refrain from posting it. There, I said it. If they’ve got a source, why post that info in time for everyone to get fanatical about changing their game and vote thread picks, et. al., before the show starts? The value for the
few who were right in their choices is watered down, as is the credibility of the followers. I don’t think that any division of the board is warranted. I’m here on the spoiler board because I want to spoil. The first thing I do when I log on the computer on Thursdays is check out what the various internet sources have to say (of course, it’s much easier to swallow if you agreed with them before the fact, I admit  . I am personally capable of separating the two, and of sticking by my gut if I think I’m right, even in the face of the “sources.” But it kinda sucks when somebody posts the
“answer” in time for everyone to change theirs, and to me, does take some of the fun out of spoiling. Maybe my answer will be to stay off the sites after about 3 p.m. on Thursdays. But still, it’s a bummer, because in all the games, I compete against you all, who will be there later. I’ll deal, just wanted to say my piece.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-18-02, 02:28 AM (EST)
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22. "RE: A Separate Thread for Outside Spoilers? You Decide" |
ulalame,
first thing I would like to say to you is that you're an impressive spoiler and have my respect. I'm glad you're posting over here this season. And I say that humbly, as you have been at it longer than I.I do understand your position on most points except this one: >>But if they have insider info directly relating to who is booted, I think they should refrain from posting it. There, I said it. If they’ve got a source, why post that info in time for everyone to get fanatical about changing their game and vote thread picks, et. al., before the show starts? WHY should they not post their info if THEIR purpose is to show Mark Burnett that he can't manage to fool everybody? Your goal and their goal are obviously different in that ultimately they are looking to publicly pick the boot before the show every single episode if they possibly can, to foil EPM, whereas you are are enjoying a related but different sport. My point is that one spoiler can't tell another what their goal should be. We can only work towards our own goals as best we can. Telling Snewser not to post his information when he's not under contract to be quiet, is just contrary to the First Amendment. Whether or not we want to hear it, he has an absolute right to say it. (Besides, plenty of people are begging for him to say it, far more for it than against.) Happy spoiling to you, and I look forward to continuing to read your articulate and well thought out posts!
Indecision would not be my problem if I had a source...
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shakes the clown 3366 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
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10-18-02, 03:14 AM (EST)
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23. "only one flaw in your argument" |
you only have one flaw in your argument, but unfortunately its a pretty big flaw. The point of spoiling is not the means, but the end. The poing to spoiling is simple, to spoil the show, not to have a fun and tasking time doing it. The whole reason this spoiling thing began with Survivor is because people resented MB's smugness that he could produce this type of show and manage to keep the boot order a secret, especially in today's age of rapid accessible at your fingertips information.People thought there was no way he could pull it off and they went about to try and prove themselves rigth. The point was not to have something fun to do all week, but to RUIN the show. If that meant studying vid caps and analyzing interviews all week long so be it. But, if it instead meant hacking into the CBS website, befriending a guy who knows a guy who knows a contestant, or bugging MB's office , then even better. Spoilers have been at this a very long time and Snewser has been there since the beginning. Snewser, through the contacts he has established during his career as a vigilant spoiler, has finally beaten MB at his game once and for all. He's cracked the code so to speak. And its not like this just fell into his lap, he more than earned the right to be the guy who owns MB. 
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-18-02, 06:44 AM (EST)
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27. "RE: only one flaw in your argument" |
It's scary, downright frightening, when I agree with shakestheclown this wholeheartedly, but I must do so here. IMHO, the object is to WIN, not just to play. Also: Sure I try to figure it out myself, but I consider SNewser and Paratrooper (and, formerly, the EBT/ABT) as spoiler information like everything else. If it helps me to be right, then I'm smart for using the info... if they miss, then I miss too and was dumb to listen to them. THAT is part of the game as well, IMHO.
Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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FesterFan1 5947 desperate attention whore postings
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10-18-02, 10:49 AM (EST)
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29. "only one flaw in your argument" |
You have only one flaw in your argument, and it's a pretty big one. The point of spoiling for you is not the means, but the end. Don't speak for everyone else. Sure, for a great number of folks here, it's about "getting it right" or winning, if you will. But honestly, what's the fun in that? So you can brag that you have the capability of going to Snewser's site at 6:30 pm to find out directly who's going tonight? That's pretty impressive, not. I mean was there ever anything more anti-climactic than the S4 final for those who heard about how it was going to go down? I can tell you it sucked for me. Therefore, I don't think Snewser is above reproach. I'm not going to say he doesn't work hard to get his info, it's just the ends that I have a tough time with sometimes. However, in the end it's up to the individual who goes to the spoiler page on his site. If I didn't want to know, I shouldn't have gone. End of story. Frankly, there are several spoilers here at SB (yourself included, shakes), who have a pretty damned impressive record without having to resort to looking in the back of the book for the answer. IMO (and I'm aware it's only MO), having been right so many times, they should have the strength of their convictions and not worry that maybe they don't have all the resources that Snewser has at his disposal. I don't think that the rest of us would think any less of their skills if they got a few wrong through good old fashioned detective work. Personally, I changed my vote in week 3 in the Spoiler Island game to Jed at the 11th hour because I knew everyone else would, and I didn't want to lose out on principle. However, that's simply not enjoyable, and it's not why I am playing this game. I'm not going to pout about it. I'm not going to say that people shouldn't do it for the sake of fairness. It's just a game for chrissakes. Likewise, I don't think we're ever going to craft an environment where everyone is happy. It's just frustrating at times to have the answer told to you. Those of us who want information, but not that much information will just have to dodge the landmines and get over it.  Fester
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Bucky Katt 3146 desperate attention whore postings
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10-18-02, 04:09 AM (EST)
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24. "Bucky's Take" |
I am going to wade in on this one because I think that this is getting way too complicated and can be solved with simple answers. First off, let me state that I don't consider myself a spoiler but just someone who enjoys the show and so this is somewhat of an 'outsiders' opinion.I think having seperate threads for 'special' information is silly. This is a Spoilers board. By merely coming here, you open yourself up to the possibility of knowing exactly what will happen each episode. All of these posters that are being referred to (Snewser, PT, ABT) all make their predictions late afternoon on Thursday. If you want to spoil without the information, don't come into this board for those few hours before the show! As Katem stated earlier, us left coasters who don't want to know what happens stay away until the show is over in our time zone. Why is this any different? Make your predictions early and then don't come back. Is it really that rewarding a victory to be a lemming and follow someone else's prediction anyway? As for the pick 'em pools and Spoiler Island, (BTW - I have never checked this out and nobody here has explained it to me. I'm assuming it is a more detailed prediction game) if you moved the deadline up 24 hours none of this would matter would it? There doesn't seem to be a lot of extra information that comes out in the last day, other then the predictions made by these spoiler sites. Moving up the deadline would solve all these problems. And as a file note, doesn't anyone else find it ironic that spoilers, who are intending to ruin MB's Survivor game, are now complaining that others are ruining their game?!?  "Lemme tell ya something - the day Bucky Katt eats a green Skittle is the day Bucky Katt lost his groove."
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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
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10-18-02, 11:09 AM (EST)
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31. "RE: A Separate Thread for Outside Spoilers? You Decide" |
LAST EDITED ON 10-18-02 AT 11:11 AM (EST)No. Simple enough? Very well then, I inherently do not trust "sources" to begin with. With all due respect to Snewser and whoever else, I don't know beans about whoever they are getting their info from, I treat all of it as hearsay whenever I run across it. The Snickers people were a good "source" information, and obviously MB set them up somehow so that their information led to a false result. The Snickers people were honest, on the up-and-up, but anyone who trusted their information was being led down the trail by MB. So there. I personally don't care, I don't trust sources anyway, never have. All due respect to Snewser, he has an excellent record, I don't trust sources. Whatever the final decision is about this, someone please email me to explain the rules (AyaK, please), otherwise I basically don't care either way.  ARRRRRRR!!!!
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lroy 536 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
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10-18-02, 11:56 AM (EST)
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33. "RE: A Separate Thread for Outside Spoilers? You Decide" |
No I don't think we should. This is the Spoilers Board. If you don't want to know don't come in, it's as simple as that. It is an individual decision to make/change your votes, if people want to complain about it, tough, it's only a game. I would hazard a guess(insert sarcasm here)that the majority of people on this board are swayed by ideas that are not their own, i know i am. I don't consider myself a spoiler, but i do follow these boards and take into account a few posters who's ideas i generally follow/agree with. Occasionally i have come up with my own ideas on how things are going to go, but i take my ideas and shape my decision with all the input i get from this site and others. Unless you come in and make an entirly blind vote, not reading or taking into account others ideas, then you have no right to complain when people jump on the ABT/EBT/Paratrooper/Snewser bandwagon. 
Meet George Jetson, his daughter lroy
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snoocharoo 1 desperate attention whore postings
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10-18-02, 12:10 PM (EST)
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34. "RE: A Separate Thread for Outside Spoilers? You Decide" |
Who are all these alleged "Snewster Bashers"? I don't think anyone is bashing Snewster perse, but a few of us now have his number after being burned twice and will adjust votes predictions accordingly.As Shakes said spoiling is just that, SPOILING MB's little tea party..if it bothers you boo-hoo, here's a box Kleenex and quarter go cry to your mommy. By coming here you are assuming the risk of being given the bootee on a platter, deal with it. No one is holding a gun to your head and making you read Snewsters, Paratrooper or anyone else's picks. I do not agree with two threads, what purpose does it serve other than hog up more bandwidth, cause more work for the BluePeople and clog up the boards with more useless information and speculation. Go to OT if you don't want to know what happens, have a drink, take a bath...whatever just quit bitchin about it. My gripe with Snewster is the last minute vote changes...but I've already pissed and moaned enough about that subject in another thread. Things aren't going to change because I don't like it. I'm an ant in the afterbirth of the spoiling community and need adapt and account for last minute vote changes in the future. Webby and the BluePeople shouldn't have to change a thing because our whiney little DAW asses don't like answers getting revealed by those in the know. It's not the responsibility of Webby to make everything nice, nice and babysit everyone in the sandbox. Take your ball and go if you don't like the game being played.  Snoocharoo
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SurvivaBear 2634 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson"
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10-18-02, 12:40 PM (EST)
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36. "Extremely well put Snooch" |
You captured my sentiments exactly. I do not consider myself a "spoiler", even though I hang out on this board alot. To me this conflict is similar to the Bashers conflict last season. These boards are inherently fraught with some conflict, but Webby and the blue men bend over backwards to provide this forum, keep it running, and still manage their respective RLs. They should not have to babysit any of us.I have visited a few other boards that are filled with profanity, vulgarity, and nonsense. This board is divided up nicely into Fanatics, Bashers, and Spoilers. If you wnat to spoil the show go to Spoilers. If you want to bash the show go to Bashers. Do not be suprised at the level of spoiling on Spoilers are the level of bashing on Bashers. I want to send my personal thanks to all the blue men, and tell them to not give this another thought. P.S. Shakes, we really could use you over on Bashers! 
Beware the Bear! An IceCat Original, © 2002
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ulalame 778 desperate attention whore postings
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10-18-02, 02:21 PM (EST)
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38. "A Simple Solution" |
I've been pondering over all the comments, including the well-made points of Shakes, OFG and Survivin' Dawg, that people have different motivations for spoiling, including the ultimate--getting insider information and leaking who wins/is booted. I think my angst over this whole situation is more based on how the existence of ultimate "sources" impacts the sportmanship--or the lack thereof--in the spoiling game, specifically with how it impacts Survivor Island and other prediction games. It is all well and good to say, make your picks early and don't visit SNewser's site after 2 p.m. on Thursdays. However, if we choose to do that, and play a "pure" game, then we lose, hands down, to those using the cheat sheet. Case in point: the only two answers I've gotten wrong this year in Survivor Island are Jed and Steph. Had I jumped on the bandwagon for the sake of preserving my scores, I would be in first place. As it is, I lost my second place standing this week, because I stuck with my answer. It will only get worse as the year goes on, as those who partake in the last minute revelations of who's getting the boot profit, while those who choose not to fall behind. So, my proposal is: close the game picks at 11 a.m. p.s.t., just as SNewser does with his own My Thai game. This is late enough that many boards have posted their picks, and late enough to take advantage of any new videoclips that might be released on the early show, but tends to be early enough that those in the know have not yet revealed who their sources indicate is going that week. This would give a greater reward to those who actually did arrive at the right answer on their own accord, and would limit the impact of the "lemming effect" on other players who made choices that ended up being incorrect. What do you think?
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AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-18-02, 06:03 PM (EST)
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43. "Agree" |
LAST EDITED ON 10-18-02 AT 06:05 PM (EST)My own feeling is that all's fair in love, war and spoiling. I agree with shakes -- the whole reason I got involved with this was because I thought Mark Burnett wouldn't be able to keep a secret. I'm amazed at his success so far, but my dream would be to beat the show completely, publishing the next person to be booted as each week's show ends. Well, I'm not in that position. For many people, such info would ruin the show, and while I might like to ruin the show, I don't want to ruin the site. And it would definitely ruin the games, and I know there are many people who like to play them. So ... that's why I posted this thread in the first place. If the problem is the games, there are two possible solutions: either an earlier closing time, or a significantly higher weight for earlier picks. We're trying to determine what's feasible without too much reprogramming.
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-18-02, 06:31 PM (EST)
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46. "RE: Agree" |
LAST EDITED ON 10-18-02 AT 06:50 PM (EST)Edited to add: This message is a reply to AyaK, but in no way is directed *AT* AyaK. It should be obvious who it IS directed at.... I just want to go on the record now as saying I STRONGLY OPPOSE an earlier poll-closing time. If you WANT to vote earlier, go right ahead, but don't RUIN it for the rest of us who prefer to wait by closing the poll early. This is getting absolutely ridiculous. Why are some of you trying to prohibit ME, and others, from voting later??? WHAT THE HELL IS YOUR PROBLEM WITH THOSE OF US WHO WANT TO VOTE LATER??!?!?!?! I would consider an earlier poll-closing time as CAVING IN to these people who seem to be jealous of the fact that some people like SNewser or Paratrooper have spoiler info and just can't stand it that some of us consider what SNewser and Paratrooper say.
"All of us necessarily hold many casual opinions that are ludicrously wrong simply because life is far too short for us to think through even a small fraction of the topics that we come across. -- Julian Simon Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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SherpaDave 8326 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-18-02, 03:36 PM (EST)
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40. "RE: A Separate Thread for Outside Spoilers? You Decide" |
So what happens the first time someone here finds a source like Snewser's? Is that person then expected to keep it under wraps or out of any threads but one with that as the topic?Seriously, consider how much time sleeeve once spent trying to spoil the audition processes. What if he'd succeeded and been able to hook up with one of the survivors who then fed him information as the season progressed? Would we have asked him to have kept it to himself? To me, we have fun spoiling the game throughout the week anyway. If Snewser give us the answer an hour or two before the show starts, all that means is that we can see a little earlier whether we were right or not. And because he posts his info so late, it's not like it has a lot of time to infiltrate every other spoiling thread anyway. Enforcing keeping Snewser picks to one thread seems to me to just be a lot of extra work for the mods of this forum (Webby, Aya, IceCat, and sleeeve) when they already have plenty to do. 
Criminals From the Neck Up
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FesterFan1 5947 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-18-02, 06:02 PM (EST)
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42. "RE: A Separate Thread for Outside Spoilers? You Decide" |
LAST EDITED ON 10-18-02 AT 06:02 PM (EST)This debate is starting to reach the level of high comedy. People keep referring to the name of the board being the “Spoilers” board, and that the point of the board is to “spoil” the show. I would like to remind folks that the board may be labeled “Spoilers”, but to quote Porn King Brian, “don’t judge a book by its cover”. There is a whole lot of speculation that happens on this board. In fact, I’d venture a guess that the majority of posts on this board have more to do with trends and speculation than with “spoilers”. So don’t get hung up on labels. It’s intellectually dishonest and a bad argument. Not that I’m advocating for a “Speculation” board by any means, I’m just trying to show the larger picture. In addition, it has become clear to me that what is meant by “spoiling”, for most people defending the status quo, is to somehow stick it to Burnett. The goal being that you all can find out definitively who is going, when he is trying to keep it a secret. OK, whatever floats your boat. Personally it ruins the show for me more than Burnett if I have been told outright who is getting voted off next. The show has very little suspense left to begin with, and you all want to snuff that little bit out? Knock yourselves out…I guess. But I digress. The unfortunate thing for me is that I look forward to “vote day” so that I can read what the veteran spoilers have to say about the week. Most of them don’t post until very late in the afternoon (here on the East Coast), and I’ll read their consolidated thoughts, weigh them against what I have in mind as a vote, and make a decision. Sometimes it works out, and sometimes (like this week where I actually had the right bootee, then changed my mind after reading some evidence that I’d forgotten about) it bites me in the ass. The point is that for me (and I’m gonna guess I’m not alone here), I like to have as much speculative information as I can get before I make an informed guess. Now, by no means am I lobbying for a second thread, because as I stated in another post, this isn’t a perfect world and you can’t make everyone happy. This debate has caused me to stop and think, though. And what I’ve decided personally, is to make my vote early on Thursday and stay away from the Spoiler board afterward. If it means I miss out on the thoughts of some respected spoilers, so be it. However, I would like to put my name in the column of those who think we should close the voting for Spoiler Island early, a la Snewser. Otherwise, the Spoiler Island game isn’t so much a “game” as it is a farce. And the people here who have benefited from Snewser’s inside information (myself included) are kidding themselves if they think it’s not. I just don’t see how anyone can be excited about winning such a contest where a handful of “picks” were spoon fed to them by someone with direct resources. In short, what I’m trying to say is A) this board may contain spoilers, but it is not limited to spoilers. B) While there are people who want as much information as possible, up to and including the direct dope on who’s going next from insiders, there are also people here who like a little bit of mystery, and their opinions are just as valid as yours. So enough with the Tough Love angle. It doesn’t substitute for a cogent argument. And C) I have to find something else to do on Thursdays after noon.
Fester
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-18-02, 06:42 PM (EST)
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47. "RE: A Separate Thread for Outside Spoilers? You Decide" |
Being on the East Coast as well Fester I have loudly expressed my opinion about closing the voting GAMES early and to some extent I think all votes should be final as well. Spoiler vote threads remain as usual. Speculate all you want here, but play a fair and even game for those who have a stake in it or truly enjoy exercising their "spoiling" abilities.And this is what is making me so damn furious that I am seeing red-to-purple: WHY IN THE HELL IS IT NOT "FAIR AND EVEN" TO USE SNEWSER AND PARATROOPER AS SPOILER MATERIAL??!??!?! Why in the HELL are you trying to punish those of us who DO listen to these people? If YOU don't want to follow them, DON'T. Make sure to vote as soon as Superman/Sherps posts the vote thread Tuesday night. Make sure you're first in line! But LEAVE ME ALONE TO VOTE WHEN *I* WANT TO!!!!! And who is next? Outfrontgirl? Krautboy? AyaK? Oops, better close the bleeding games and polls before THEY vote, it wouldn't be *FAIR* if we considered THEIR opinion, either! I wasn't opposed to a separate thread for the SNewser/Paratrooper/ABT/OtherBoard information, but I am now. On principle. This is worse than Liberals taxing me to pay for their vote-buying, elderly-scaring income-transfer-and-distribution schemes!!! And those of you who didn't change your vote to Jed in time: GET THE HELL OVER IT!!!!
"All of us necessarily hold many casual opinions that are ludicrously wrong simply because life is far too short for us to think through even a small fraction of the topics that we come across. -- Julian Simon Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Bucky Katt 3146 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
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10-18-02, 07:02 PM (EST)
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48. "RE: A Separate Thread for Outside Spoilers? You Decide" |
WHY IN THE HELL IS IT NOT "FAIR AND EVEN" TO USE SNEWSER AND PARATROOPER AS SPOILER MATERIAL??!??!?! I think the point that you are missing Dawg is that not everyone has access to the spoilers provided by Snewswer, Paratrooper etc. before the show starts. If we are having a competition, then it should be set up so that each competitor has an equal opportunity (or at least a resonably equal opportunity) to succeed. If there is no early cut-off, then only those people who have internet access and time to spare between 4-8pm EST on Thursdays have a chance of winning and I believe that isn't equal. I don't think 'fair' is the right term to use because as long as rules are being applied to all parties the same then the competition is 'fair'. However, I do not believe that the competition as it sits now gives equal opportunity for each person to win. This is worse than Liberals taxing me to pay for their vote-buying, elderly-scaring income-transfer-and-distribution schemes!!! I don't like it when politicans do this either, but I would prefer to not see political rants on a Survivor Spoilers board whether I agree with them or not. "Lemme tell ya something - the day Bucky Katt eats a green Skittle is the day Bucky Katt lost his groove."
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AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-18-02, 07:35 PM (EST)
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49. "Politics and polls" |
No politics? I'll have to quit the board! How can I live without taking shots at my old nemesis Jimmy "the Twerp" Carter, Nobel Peace Prize winner and chief architect of the North Korea nuclear program!  (and to think I voted for the guy once...)I read Get Fuzzy. Bucky Katt is the kind of animal who would hang around with Feral Catstro, Meowssolini, Kitty Amin and Karl Manx, isn't he? I can't believe a cat who wants to rule the world wouldn't be thinking political thoughts all the time (well, at least during the 5-6 hours a day he's awake). Seriously, though, I like the idea of the time-based picks. You make the right choice the day before, you get lots more points. Wait until you read the "guaranteed info" and you get fewer points. Unfortunately, it may be too difficult to program right now. We'll see.
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
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10-18-02, 07:46 PM (EST)
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51. "RE: Politics and polls" |
How can I live without taking shots at my old nemesis Jimmy "the Twerp" Carter, Nobel Peace Prize winner and chief architect of the North Korea nuclear program! (and to think I voted for the guy once...)How do you think *I* feel? Carter is from my STATE! Lessee...
2002 Nobel Peace Prize Winner - Jimmy Carter
2001 Nobel Peace Prize Winner - The United Nations
1996 (or 1998) Nobel Peace Prize Winner - Yassar Arafat. Noting a pattern here? Seriously, though, I like the idea of the time-based picks. You make the right choice the day before, you get lots more points. Wait until you read the "guaranteed info" and you get fewer points. Again, I am strongly and bitterly opposed to this, as it is not fair to those of us who DO choose to see what SNewser and Paratrooper have to say. It's nothing but punishment for some of us. Again I ask, WHY are some people trying to hurt me and others who DO want to hear what SNewser has to say?!?!? Just do your own damn thing and leave me alone to do mine!!!! You know the deal; you know you have to vote before the show starts; you know where SNewser's site is (or you can find it with a Google search); you know you can but don't have to visit that site. WHAT is the freakin' PROBLEM about any of this!?!?!
"All of us necessarily hold many casual opinions that are ludicrously wrong simply because life is far too short for us to think through even a small fraction of the topics that we come across. -- Julian Simon Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
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10-18-02, 08:08 PM (EST)
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53. "But..." |
With a weighted point value based on time, there's no penalty for following Snewser and paratrooper ... but there is a reward (maybe a very big reward) if you figure the boot out on your own prior to their posting.
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-18-02, 08:39 PM (EST)
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57. "RE: Politics and polls" |
I think it's unfair wrong to give weighted points because it punishes those who vote later. As TechNoir said above, some people get home from work later in the day. Also, again, it punishes those of us who CHOOSE to include SNewser's opinion along with Outfrontgirl's (for example). This is NOT a solution, it's a handicap and punishment for those who wait for the Thursday Morning Early Show, the Thursday Evening ET Tonight, or SNewser or OFG or whoever.As a matter of fact, in Survivor 3, I missed Linda because I voted before the Early Show Thursday morning, and therefore got the IC wrong. If I had just waited until 10am Thursday, I'd have gotten it right (I was voting on another board for S-3, by the way). So I've made it a point to wait. And I think that's fair AND right. I must admit that I'm starting to feel very bitter about this whole argument, because I see it as an attempt by some to curtail the resources others choose to use. I made a passing reference to the political thing halfway as a joke, but philosophically I do see it the same way. To pick on FesterFan... he said (in Msg. 42) that he prefers to guess for himself the bootee, but doesn't want the suspense taken out of it when he watches the show. By way of contrast, I do want to make a guess based on as complete information as I can get. Fair enough for Fester to feel that SNewser takes the suspense out of it, but the truth is that SNewser is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ (no relation to the former EBT member). There are two solutions: Solution 1) Fester makes his votes whenever he wants to, and avoids the SNewser board, and perhaps avoids the Spoiler board, or specific threads thereof, in the late parts of Thursday... by his choice, of course. Meanwhile, Dawg reads the information available to him and votes according to whatever he believes... which is NOT necessarily what ABT, SNewser or Paratrooper believe. Everyone does what they want, and everyone SHOULD be happy. Solution 2) The polls (and Island game) are closed early (when? who knows...) so that Dawg cannot utilize SNewser opinion <--note that word. For some reason, this would add to the "suspense" and not spoil it for some... and appease those who just can't stand it that others wait until later, and as a consequence stand a better chance to be right. But, of course, it makes it worthless for me and others like me whose goal *IS* to SPOIL (as in, know the answer ahead of time) Mark Burnett's show. Some are made miserable at the expense of others. *end of picking on Fester. Sorry about that, Fester.* Now, which of these "solutions" is right? The answer is obvious to me, and I frankly don't understand why it's not obvious to everyone.
"All of us necessarily hold many casual opinions that are ludicrously wrong simply because life is far too short for us to think through even a small fraction of the topics that we come across. -- Julian Simon Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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SurvivorBlows 15230 desperate attention whore postings
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10-18-02, 08:50 PM (EST)
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58. "RE: Politics and polls" |
LAST EDITED ON 10-18-02 AT 09:10 PM (EST)
>is not fair to those of us who DO choose
>to see what SNewser and Paratrooper have to say.
>It's nothing but punishment for some of us. Again
>I ask, WHY are some people trying to hurt me
>and others who DO want to hear what SNewser has
>to say?!?!?
Oh please, anyone who's waiting to hear what "Snewser has to say" is not doing any prediction of their own, they are just parrotting someone else's selection. Snewser presents ZERO new evidence to be analyzed at 5-6PM, he simply posts (or more accurately changes) his selection to what one has to assume to be near-certainty of the night's pick. Maybe he has someone who works at JFK and sees the bootee's arriving in NYC, maybe it's someone at the check-in hotel where the bootee's stay, maybe it's someone at a local affiliate who learns of the bootee after the night's episode hours before it airs, the point doesn't matter, only that he's clearly not changing his selections 2-3 hours before airtime because he just had a new "hunch." To claim that you're anything but a lemming is laughable... the game is a prediction game that allows you to post who you think is getting booted -- not for you to ape the selections of someone else who's KNOWS and has opted to tell you. To have updated the leaderboard last night and see the Spoiler Island leaderboard crowded with folks who I KNOW had not selected Stephanie in the vote thread was disappointing to say the least, lemming tracking was not the reason I went through the work of developing and maintaining the game. As for your objections, get over it... chances are nothing will change this season, but next season Spoiler Island will (in some manner) change to reflect this growing issue. -SB
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
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10-18-02, 07:39 PM (EST)
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50. "RE: A Separate Thread for Outside Spoilers? You Decide" |
LAST EDITED ON 10-18-02 AT 08:18 PM (EST)I think the point that you are missing Dawg is that not everyone has access to the spoilers provided by Snewswer, Paratrooper etc. before the show starts. I think this is bull and whining... and all the more reason NOT to close the polls early. ABT was up with their posts very early (around 2pm) week before last, and about the same last week. I forget which week it was, I think it was Ghandia, but I voted at 12:45 after checking SNewser, ABT, etc. and finding no posts... but about 15 minutes later, their predictions came out... so when DO we close the polls? Noon? 9am? 6pm Wednesday? Edited to add: It would be more than unfair... in fact it would be WRONG... to close the poll early. Just so you know: My goal is to WIN the Spoiler Island game using every bit of information available to me, including SNewser and Paratrooper's opinions if I so desire... my goal is to have the MOST POINTS POSSIBLE... not just to half-ass guess in the middle of the day. Again, SNewser and Paratrooper MIGHT BE WRONG!!! They're not a guaranteed lock on accuracy! The ABT sure as hell hasn't been this season. Again, WHY is it "UNFAIR" to utilize these persons' opinions (apparently exclusively)?!?!?! If we are having a competition, then it should be set up so that each competitor has an equal opportunity (or at least a resonably equal opportunity) to succeed. As I said, or at least implied, before: It's fair now. Everyone has equal opportunity to spoil this show and cast their votes. How they do it is their own business. Some people go to SurvivorSucks, I never do. Some people read TDT, some don't. Bottom line: It's perfectly fair now; what some people want is an unfair advantage over me and others who DO like to read SNewser's and Paratrooper's opinions. Edited to add: And, as TechNoir said: for some who actually WORK and get home after 4pm on Thursday, you're setting them up to have to vote the evening before (Wednesday evening). Is *THAT* fair? Does that give THEM "reasonably equal opportunity"? I think not. If there is no early cut-off, then only those people who have internet access and time to spare between 4-8pm EST on Thursdays have a chance of winning and I believe that isn't equal.
Again whining. Hell, the Left Coast people have to vote by 5pm because that's when the SHOW begins on the East Coast. Is that "equal"??? Some would say it's not, but I didn't create the time zones. By the same token: NO ONE (that I know of) is denied access to Paratrooper's or SNewser's sites. You can cry about "time to spare" all you want; that is your life and lifestyle choices and *I* shouldn't have to suffer because of YOUR choices in that direction. You WHINE that it's not equal; I say it's your own choice for yourself and have no sympathy for you. but I would prefer to not see political rants on a Survivor Spoilers board whether I agree with them or not.
First you try to tell me when I can and can't vote and who I can and can't "fairly" use to form my spoiler opinion. Now you're telling me what I can and cannot post. I'll stop typing now, as the flames are beginning to start up on my keyboard....
"All of us necessarily hold many casual opinions that are ludicrously wrong simply because life is far too short for us to think through even a small fraction of the topics that we come across. -- Julian Simon Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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true 9689 desperate attention whore postings
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10-18-02, 08:03 PM (EST)
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52. "I have a question" |
Dawg, are you talking about SPOILER ISLAND or the VOTE THREAD, or BOTH? I'm just not sure what you mean by POLLS. Thanks
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
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10-18-02, 08:21 PM (EST)
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56. "RE: I have a question" |
I did seem to talk more about the Vote Thresd (in fact, I think this whole thing has sprung from some peoples' bitterness over the late switches to Jed)But it actually is more important for the Spoiler Island game. I could just start a new thresd to cast my (late) vote, but we all have to go into the Island game the same way. So the answer is...*drumroll, please*... BOTH.
"All of us necessarily hold many casual opinions that are ludicrously wrong simply because life is far too short for us to think through even a small fraction of the topics that we come across. -- Julian Simon Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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true 9689 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-18-02, 09:08 PM (EST)
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61. "RE: I have a question" |
Ok, thanks for the clarification.I agree with you about the vote thread, no need to close that early, or ban vote changes. We all know why votes get changed, so who cares? I disagree with your bitter comment. I don't think anyone was "bitter" about act of vote changing by itself. I do however understand being annoyed with people, trying to claim that their vote was changed because they had some magical lightbulb go off above their head, when we ALL KNOW that the changes were made because of Snewsers or Paratroopers picks. If anyone thinks that their "spoiling record" on the vote thread is given any more weight because they follow a source, they are mistaken. Since when is the vote thread a competition? I guess if it makes you feel important, more power to you. You just won't be getting any kudos from me. As far as Spoiler Island goes, I like AK's idea very much. I do think that more points should go to those players that actually make the picks themselves, without the benefit of a KNOWN source. Otherwise the game just becomes meaningless. It's like playing jeopardy and all three contestants have the answers beforehand. How is that a game? What kindof satisfaction do you get from winning a game that you already have the answer to the questions? Again, if it makes you feel better about yourself, go for it. Just don't expect anyone to pat you on the back once you've "WON".
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-18-02, 09:26 PM (EST)
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64. "RE: I have a question" |
I don't think anyone was "bitter" about act of vote changing by itself. Here is some information that may or may not change your mind: After the Jed booting, I was in chat and someone complained strongly to me about the vote-changing. This person proposed not allowing vote changes in the vote thread at that time. You can believe or not believe this to be the truth. Further, this board (in all areas, Spoiler, Bashers, OT) is sprinkled with occasional comments here and there about the issue. While some have made light of it, some have persistently called for changes such as not allowing vote changes and, now, early poll closings. I could search out these posts, but I really don't care to expend the energy; so accept my word or don't. Perhaps the word "upset" is more accurate than "bitter".
"All of us necessarily hold many casual opinions that are ludicrously wrong simply because life is far too short for us to think through even a small fraction of the topics that we come across. -- Julian Simon Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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ulalame 778 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"
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10-18-02, 09:34 PM (EST)
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66. "RE: I have a question" |
A point of clarification, if one is needed. I have no opinion on the vote poll or any poll for that matter. My points go to the prediction games, like Spoiler Island. As True noted earlier, we all can surmise what we want about people to stick to--or change their votes. My comments were toward Spoiler Island, only.
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true 9689 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-18-02, 09:40 PM (EST)
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67. "RE: I have a question" |
ulalame, I think your comments were very clearly stated. I knew that you were talking about points games, like Spoiler Island.
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ulalame 778 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"
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10-18-02, 09:03 PM (EST)
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59. "RE: A Separate Thread for Outside Spoilers? You Decide" |
A final two cents on the issue. I myself check out the other spoiler sites. I suggested the 11 a.m. (pst) cut-off because that's what SNewser is using for his game, and it appears he is not posting his inside information until after his own game closes. If the time of day cut-off doesn't work for people, then weighting scores for earlier picks is fair too.I don't disagree whatsoever about using all the resources available to you--to a certain degree. My original point is and remains that this season, it appears somebody's got a legitimate source for who wins this damn game, and it takes away all the sport and fun of Spoiler Island and the other prediction games if some people choose to use that cheat sheet, and others play based on their own acumen. It would be different if it appeared that SNewser and Paratrooper were guessing like the rest of us (and as it seems the ABT are this year). Then, your point about whether to follow them or not being at one's own risk would be valid. However, to me, that does not look like it's the case this season. To me, it looks like they've got a correct source for the right answer. I agree with Fester that this turns the prediction games, like Spoiler Island, into a farce. What's the problem with giving somebody a bonus who makes their pick early, and they are right? It encourages original thought. The act of spoiling EPM's Survivor series itself might rightly be one with no time limits and rules, but a competative game that rewards only those who rely upon the inside source alone is no fun. You all know my point of view on this, and I'm sure some of you think it's jealousy, or sour grapes on my part. I assure you it's not. I just really have enjoyed hanging out here and being part of this community, as well as competing in the prediction games. As the season has developed, I've found that it's less and less fun to spend my week trying to figure the next episode out, only to have the late afternoon "sure thing" come along and be faced with the choice of sticking to my guns (which will inevtably be wrong if it's in digression with the sources) or follow along with the herd just to score some points. I'm okay with losing, I'd just rather do it on a level playing field.
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Bucky Katt 3146 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
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10-18-02, 09:03 PM (EST)
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60. "RE: A Separate Thread for Outside Spoilers? You Decide" |
It would be more than unfair... in fact it would be WRONG... to close the poll early. Explain to us how it would be 'unfair'. To whom would it give an unfair advantage to? As I said before, the rules now are fair and an early cut off time would be fair as both are applied to everyone the same. The issue I am raising is equality not fairness. And I am not really sure why it would be (Note the capitalization) "in fact WRONG" either. It may be wrong in your opinion but that does not make it fact. Just so you know: My goal is to WIN the Spoiler Island game using every bit of information available to me, including SNewser and Paratrooper's opinions if I so desire... my goal is to have the MOST POINTS POSSIBLE... not just to half-ass guess in the middle of the day. That's a fine goal to have. But if SNewser, Paratrooper etc. post predictions that are consistently accurate then I in a quarter-assed effort can log on to their sites at 7:50 EST on Thursday and do just as well. Where is the competition in that? Again, SNewser and Paratrooper MIGHT BE WRONG!!! They're not a guaranteed lock on accuracy! The ABT sure as hell hasn't been this season. Again, WHY is it "UNFAIR" to utilize these persons' opinions (apparently exclusively)?!?!?! Again, I am not saying it is unfair I am saying it is not equal. Bottom line: It's perfectly fair now; what some people want is an unfair advantage over me and others who DO like to read SNewser's and Paratrooper's opinions. I am still unclear as to how an early cut off time is unfair to you. Why does it put you at an unfair disadvantage? Again whining. Hell, the Left Coast people have to vote by 5pm because that's when the SHOW begins on the East Coast. Is that "equal"??? I won't get into who is whining, everyone can form their opinion on who is doing that. And as a Left Coast person I know all about time zones and as such I realize it is not absolutely equal. But, it is the most equal it can be. *I* shouldn't have to suffer because of YOUR choices in that direction. You WHINE that it's not equal; I say it's your own choice for yourself and have no sympathy for you. I don't quite understand why you are so angry. First off, I hardly think that having to post a Survivor prediction would constiture 'suffering'. As for the whine comment, again everyone else can form an opinion on who is whining. Nobody is asking for sympathy, we are just looking for a way to play these games in a way that gives everyone as equal a chance as possible at winning. First you try to tell me when I can and can't vote and who I can and can't "fairly" use to form my spoiler opinion. Now you're telling me what I can and cannot post. I'll stop typing now, as the flames are beginning to start up on my keyboard... I'm not trying to tell you when you can and can't post, I'm trying to express my opinion as to what the rules should be to play a game in a manner that gives everyone as equal an opportunity to win as possible. And, I expressed my opinion stating that I prefer not to see political posts in a Survivor Spoiler forum - I didn't tell you that you could or couldn't post political rants anywhere. And for the record, I don't play Survivor Island so I don't really care about what happens there this season and the other Survivor games I play here at SB are for enjoyment only and I admitedly play them in a half-assed manner. I will probably play no matter what the rules are. I just want rules that are the most inclusive and give everyone as equal an opportunity as possible to win. It appears to me (again, this is an opinion) that all you want are rules that give you the best chance to win regardless of equality. "Lemme tell ya something - the day Bucky Katt eats a green Skittle is the day Bucky Katt lost his groove."
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-18-02, 09:57 PM (EST)
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69. "RE: A Separate Thread for Outside Spoilers? You Decide" |
LAST EDITED ON 10-18-02 AT 10:00 PM (EST)Gotcha. I totally understand. P.S. Unfortunately, this has gotten off the original path. Did anyone ever decide if we're going to have separate threads? And is our purpose to "spoil" or to "guess"? *ducking for cover*
"All of us necessarily hold many casual opinions that are ludicrously wrong simply because life is far too short for us to think through even a small fraction of the topics that we come across. -- Julian Simon Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-18-02, 11:41 PM (EST)
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73. "RE: A Separate Thread for Outside Spoilers? You Decide" |
LAST EDITED ON 10-18-02 AT 11:49 PM (EST)Man, talk about opening a can of worms when I suggested we revisit this issue if people were so unhappy. Well, obviously there were a lot of pent up feelings, so it seems good that it got aired. I personally never needed or wanted a separate thread, as I look at all the spoilers I can, but I did think it was fair to look for alternatives if only so that people would stop complaining about having their fun spoiled every week. Now the question has been apparently decided, I sure hope everyone will refrain from bashing Snewser and the ABT. (I guess no one has the urge to bash Paratrooper. He's so cryptic, perhaps? ) Because the issue was raised again on this thread that the REAL problem is when people take credit for spoiling they have not done, I want to address that, because I was one of the people who clearly got accused of swooping in and changing my vote on Jed (the first vote change of the caravan) and pretending it wasn't due to Snewser. Frankly that burned me, because I credited the people who helped turn on the light bulb for me, including dabo. To say I was just denying that Snewser was the cause of my vote change is to do disservice to dabo and the others, and to me. My original decision to pick Stephanie over Jed was practically a coin flip, and it only took a little nudge to change my mind--a change I fully supported with reasoning, NONE of which reasoning was written for me by Snewser. On other votes where Snewser influenced me. such as the Final 2 of S4, I fully credited him. Point being, unless someone here is a mindreader you should not be posting that people are dishonest about their stated reasoning. Even if they are, that's their own business. Last I heard, no one was getting richer because of any credit they got for getting the vote right. Also, I have heard so much murmuring this season about how the ABT and Swewser have no "process"--just sources--which, first of all, is INCORRECT, and second, it is unfair to lambast people who can't explain what they did or didn't get from sources because of confidentitality issues. As for Spoiler Island, 11 am PST is 9am for me... so yeah, I wouldn't LIKE having to finish up that early. I like to sleep on my thoughts from the night before and let the unconscious brain sort the mess out into more clarity. It seems to help. And I like to see if the Early Show offered any clues. But then, I am the only one (I think) in this far off time zone and I don't expect anything to be customized for me. I do think TechNoir has an excellent point about people who work and can't play on the net til they go home. (Shocking but true, some posters aren't allowed to read the board at work.) Well, it felt good to get it off my chest. Snoocharoo, you asked why there were two threads about something that hasn't been an issue. There have been snipes at the outside spoilers posted in numerous threads; perhaps they got by you because it wasn't an issue for you, but it's definitely been a trend that's been escalating. I hope this thread has given or will give everyone the chance to air their gripes so that we can proceed with a fun spoiling season. As for who wins Spoiler Island, I guess I am competing with the people like Dawg and Shakes who also spoil seriously and provide cogent arguments; as Webby said (paraphrase), spoiling your way to the right pick by using your brain is what the game's about, not about copying people's picks that you respect.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-19-02, 00:42 AM (EST)
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75. "RE: A Separate Thread for Outside Spoilers? You Decide" |
LAST EDITED ON 10-19-02 AT 00:43 AM (EST)Ebug,
I don't have time to sort through the posts and link them, but
there have been three main complaints about Snewser's actions (not Snewser himself) in this and the related thread, and on the board. 1) That Snewser should not publish sure thing picks, period, because it ruins all the fun for hard working Spoilers. My answer: that's his right; his goals are different than ours. 2) That Snewser is not a real spoiler because he is handed the bootees by someone--a source or sources. Not true. He has worked hard to develop contacts, which is very different, AND he is an excellent spoiler/speculator. 3) He doesn't reveal his sources to us, only shares the bootee.
See Misto and my answers to this on the other thread. I don't think it's a big issue that he may make a final pick late on Thursday. I think everyone understands that he finalizes his pick when he is confident in it, and doesn't do it late to screw with people. I suppose a late change messes up people who vote solely based on Snewser, but I'm not hearing much sympathy for people who fall on their face over that.  I hope this helps. Sorry I can't link everything, but I clearly remember these issues being argued. It does seem that the argument has mellowed out the Snewser bashing, which was the point of bringing it up for discussion. Edited because I couldn't count my list of points corredtly.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-19-02, 00:53 AM (EST)
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76. "RE: A Separate Thread for Outside Spoilers? You Decide" |
Ebug's question made me think of an obvious point about Snewser that I haven't seen posted yet.We keep talking about Snewser in terms of being a spoiler.
Snewser is a JOURNALIST (and a spoiler). There's a reason NEWS is the name of his Survivor site. Journalists report up to the minute news and tell it like it is. (Which is why I mentioned the First Amendment on the other thread). Did anyone ever hear of a reporter who decided to figure out the news by himself and dispense with sources? Don't good reporters strive to find accurate sources rather than red herrings. Don't journalists in general defend their right not to reveal their sources? Then we turn around and gripe because he does his job well!
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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10-19-02, 03:23 AM (EST)
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79. "RE: A Separate Thread for Outside Spoilers? You Decide" |
>>...and please, enough with subtle allegations that a significant activity on the spoiler boards is running around bashing Snewser and the ABT -- as seems to be waayyy too common around here, I think you're reading things into posting that aren't there. The only "bashing" I've seen is largely the one you are imagining, beyond that all I've seen is some discussion over his source and some insight as whether folks personally consider "true spoiling" to include obtaining actual information for a source -- am ongoing debate that's been happening on numerous spoiler sites forever. Some folks don't -- and it's not "bashing" Snewser to have that opinion.-SB
--------- SB,
I didn't use the word bashing prior to Ebug asking where it might be found. I tried to summarize what had been said, not define it as bashing. If you looked at my post at the top of the thread you will see that I was one of the first people to say there are more than one kinds of spoiling and the different opinions were valid. "Subtle allegations?" "Imagining bashing?" I may be reading too much into things as usual, but I think that's over the top personal, from the Webmaster or no. Enough then. I don't deserve that kind of remark and I'm out of here. OFG
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