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"Revisiting the Tribe Selections"
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
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10-04-02, 01:59 PM (EST)
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"Revisiting the Tribe Selections"
Just how dumb is Jan looking right now? Not very, I'd say.

They BARELY lost the first IC (thanks, Ghandia!), they narrowly lost the 2d IC.

The third IC, while probably thrown by Sook Jai, was geared towards CG's mental abilities, and they handled it well.

But they also won the Ep. 3 Reward Challenge with some "brainy" play. It was a good idea for big Ted to block the middle as he did. And which tribe was mature enough to play it smart and follow the rules? As opposed to the young, impatient tribe getting a little bit quick and striking outside the combat/contact zone?

Also, except for Ghandia, CG is fairly united. Ted felt good enough to have a group meeting about his "indiscretion" (note that Ghandia did NOT go for the group meeting concept, then later she was pouting).

Meanwhile, Sook Jai is seeing purple over the loss of their fishing net, and several members who don't seem to like being with the others. The split was 5-3, now 5-2, but it's a bad kind of split that can hurt winning chances.

Yes, this leaves lots of room for argument (I wouldn't start one of THOSE, now would I? ), so have at it. But right now, I gotta think Jan did alright in her tribal picks.


Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: Revisiting the Tribe Selections evilj9 10-04-02 1
 RE: Revisiting the Tribe Selections BMH 10-04-02 2
   RE: Revisiting the Tribe Selections zzz 10-04-02 3
 RE: Revisiting the Tribe Selections Bucky Katt 10-04-02 4
   RE: Revisiting the Tribe Selections sittem 10-08-02 9
 RE: Revisiting the Tribe Selections AresMars 10-04-02 5
   RE: Revisiting the Tribe Selections SurvivinDawg 10-05-02 6
 RE: Revisiting the Tribe Selections NightScribe 10-05-02 7
   RE: Revisiting the Tribe Selections managerr 10-08-02 8
       RE: Revisiting the Tribe Selections... TribalTex29 10-09-02 12
 RE: Revisiting the Tribe Selections SaphireLady 10-09-02 10
 Right on, duuude! TribalTex29 10-09-02 11

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evilj9 29 desperate attention whore postings
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10-04-02, 02:34 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Revisiting the Tribe Selections"
I must say I agree with you. Jan is a teacher, and is very familiar with group dynamics. In addition, she teaches FIRST GRADE. I'm sure her logic was to avoid a group of kids that would need someone to hold their hands, tell them what to do and where to go. She admitted that she didn't like the leadership role.

In addition, everyone except Tanya was married with children. Who know more about compromise and working together than parents? I think Jan's initial choices were based more on group dynamics that strength. She opted for the maturity, knowledge and (hopefully) ability to work together rather than the young, inexperienced, opinionated group. What initially seemed like an insane choice has proved to work quite well.

I think it's safe to say that Ethan was the most physically fit of the winners. In fact, the more athletic of the two tends to lose (Kelly W., Colby). So being the best athelete doesn't always give you an advantage.

As always, in Evil, J9

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BMH 845 desperate attention whore postings
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10-04-02, 03:36 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Revisiting the Tribe Selections"
I gotta disagree with ya Survivindawg...I mean yes they aren't as weak as I once thought..and they came close to victory in both episode 1 and 2..but BOTH challenges they won in episode 3 was not done on their own..Sook-Jai had a extremely high lead in the RC..if not for their stupidity in not throwing ppl in the water when not in the attack zone they would have easily won..

and we cannot say for sure who would have won the IC if half of Sook-Jai actually tried..lol...Shii said she could have done the puzzle in her sleep same with Jake and with the others strength...they probably could and would have won...so I still think Jan is pretty dumb..and most likely Chuay Ghan's third member will be taking that walk of shame..we all know who that is..

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zzz 703 desperate attention whore postings
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10-04-02, 03:47 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: Revisiting the Tribe Selections"
BMH--

IMHO, your attempt to prove S-dawg wrong actually proves his point. The reason that she did not make such a bad selection is that she picked people who can get past peronsal issues and work together as a team because they are more mature. The other team is full of younger and less mature people. Thus, while they may have more raw ability, their lack of discipline (e.g., attacking outside the marked area) and team cohesion (e.g., deciding not to try in order to throw out an unwanted member) will eventually lead to implosion.

Thus, while she may not have picking a "winning" team (i.e., a team with a lot of raw physical ability)--she avoided picking a "losing" team (i.e., a team of young jerks that cannot get it together). As long as the other team cannot get its act together, your team can just sit back and watch them implode. You don't have to be great--just better than the other group. That is what I think S-dawg meant that she actually picked a pretty good team (S-dawg--please jump in if I have gotten you wrong).

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Bucky Katt 3146 desperate attention whore postings
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10-04-02, 04:02 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Revisiting the Tribe Selections"
Dawg, I think you are giving Jan way too much credit. I think she simply stood up there at the selection and thought it would be better to pick people closer to her own age because she would get along with them better and because she would not be voted off as quickly. I believe that she would have picked 7 50+ year old women if that would have been available to her. I doubt there were any thoughts of strategy and group dynamics.

Also, I disagree with your comment about the CG tribe being more united then SJ. 5 people from CG are united and 5 people from SJ are united. It seems to be they are both in the same boat, the only difference being that CG made 1 more trip to TC then SJ has.

I think the best move Jan has made is to align herself with Ted, Brian and Clay. That was a far better move then her selections for the tribe.

"Lemme tell ya something - the day Bucky Katt eats a green Skittle is the day Bucky Katt lost his groove."

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sittem 4186 desperate attention whore postings
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10-08-02, 08:51 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Revisiting the Tribe Selections"
Having read SD and the eight other posts on this thread, I agree with BK here. Jan was selected as a team captain and she was on the spot. She put absolutely no thought strategically into who she picked. Her only thought was trying to find the guy and girls she felt most comfortable with (whoops - guess there's a tiny bit of strategy there, but not a lot). And, those picks naturally skewed toward the older people.

In retrospect I think we may see that she chose people who were more mature and will have bonded more and worked better together, but to the extent that those were intentional picks because of her insight - nope.

Now, CG can still implode itself as long as Ghandia remains there in her current state of mind. It's unfortunate for the tribe that she chose to be a real DAW instead of playing strategically. I suppose she might be playing her strategy to get Ted dumped sooner than her, but I think she badly misplayed if that's what she's trying to do.

So, Dawg, I think you give Jan way to much credit for what she MAY have achieved by accident. I'll hang up now and wait for Jan to prove BK and I wrong at some future date.

2002 IceCat Originals, Inc. All rights reserved.

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AresMars 283 desperate attention whore postings
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10-04-02, 04:34 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Revisiting the Tribe Selections"
LAST EDITED ON 10-04-02 AT 04:38 PM (EST)

Dawg, I've been waiting for you to apply a conspiracy to the RC for this ep because I sure in the hell have one. The challenge known as as the "Towers of Hanoi" is not only an old game but is also used as a teaching assignment in many, many programming classes. Hmmmmm, who would benifit most from a game like this. Could it be possibly our favorite software development manager? Ted!!! Who was leading these sheep through the puzzle??? Ted!!! There is no question in my mind this challenge was geared for Ted. When I took my first programming class 10 years ago creating a "Towers of Hanoi" script was one of my assignments and I recently signed up for a class in C# and guess what one of the projects is?
Thoughts Dawg?


God Bless America



There are two types of people, predators and prey, and the sound you hear is the sharpening of my claws.

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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
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10-05-02, 00:43 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: Revisiting the Tribe Selections"
You make a good point, AM, but I'm hesitant to subscribe a conspiracy theory to this challenge just yet. I do agree that a mental challenge favors CG (if you keep Ghandia away from it), and a guy with programming experience like Ted is going to be able to think logically and expedite the solving of the puzzle.

But we'll never really know for these reasons:
1) Was this IC planned in advance? If not, a theory is AWN! If so, the theory is wiped OUT.
2) Did SJ throw the IC? We'll never know what might have happened if SJ had tried to win the IC.

I also think that, due to the Stacy Stilman lawsuit, that MB & Co. watch their Ps and Qs about this sort of thing.

So, thanks for asking, but my conspiracy alarm bells aren't ringing... YET!



Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

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NightScribe 761 desperate attention whore postings
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10-05-02, 02:14 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Revisiting the Tribe Selections"
I was going to start a new thread on this, but this one seems the better place to put it.

Last episode we were being told two stories: dissension in CG and a subplot on which tribe was actually surviving better.

Shii Ann states that her tribe are horrible campers, horrible outdoorsmen, and they're STARVING!!!

In a confessional, Robb starts complaining about being hungry and drained. He's so high energy, ya know, that he needs a turkey if he's going to keep his ADD persona going.

Then we see dumb and dumber losing the net that could have been quite useful in obtaining one teeny tiny fish every nine days or so. Of course, since they never knew how to use it in the first place.......

Over at CG, they win the benefit of the Red Berrets showing them how to live off the land, and Helen states that they will eat anything they can.

Tribal Council time: the focus isn't on tribal dynamics as one might suspect, but rather we hear Stephanie talking about how the buff tribe is low, low energy due to lack of food (cuz they need it more being in great shape and all).

Finally, the kicker:

Jiffy to Jed: Do you expect food as a reward?
Jed: No, we don't expect anything. We will eat snails for the next few weeks and then we'll start dropping like flies.

MB loooooves irony. Everyone thought the better team would be Jakes buff boys and girls, but alas, the old overweight tribe will prevail.......If we didn't have the weightloss spoilers indicating a strong CG finish, this subplot told the outcome.


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managerr 1959 desperate attention whore postings
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10-08-02, 05:44 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Revisiting the Tribe Selections"
I still think Jan picked horrible teams. She may have picked good teams for her own personal benefit, but poorly from a team standpoint. Her team is physically, and last episode was shown to be mentally weak.


The Good:
----------
Ted - Looks like this was a solid 1st round pick
Brian - Over Robb. This was a good choice and could be the saving grace of CG.

Bad:
-----
John - Over Jed? Her first pick was her first boot. Jed would have fit this team's dynamics better.
Tanya - Tanya said she was sick from training camp. Why pick the sick girl? (Maybe everyone thought Erin would be the next Sarah, I dunno)
Ghandia - Her biggest mistake.

Neutral:
--------
Helen - Seems to have some problems bonding with the group, but looks strong so far.

It is clear that she was going for *personality* over strength. Tanya and John were examples of this.
However, I do think she should have gone for a more balanced team.

I do think it's clear that some of their personalities must have come through during the training camp, because both leaders shyed away from Robb.

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TribalTex29 63 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"

10-09-02, 00:39 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: Revisiting the Tribe Selections...meh"
While I agree with your points, I don't think Jan had much of chance to pick anybody clearly. It was pointed out right off the bat that noone had even spoken to each other so they had to base they're picks on looks alone. She probably had no real idea that Tanya was even sick. She may have just picked her cuz she was sitting closer. Who knows.

I do not think that CG is neither mentally or physically weaker. I actually believe that they are equal, and that like you said, picking Ghandia was her biggest mistake. She blew they're first immunity challenge and has caused nothing but trouble ever since.

Jan may make it farther than anyone thinks because of her choices. Hindsight is 20/20 anyway.

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SaphireLady 2491 desperate attention whore postings
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10-09-02, 00:13 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: Revisiting the Tribe Selections"
I agree with the picks. Yes Jeb probably would have worked better with the CG group but we will never know and his age might have worked against him.

The "alarm" of rigging an IC does not fit. One, Shi, Jake, and others are college graduates with lots of learning and computers between them so they were just as capable as Ted of winning that challenge.

SJ's problem is too many chief personalities and not enough peons is my theory. They all are too full of themselves. with the exception of Jake only because at this time his screen time has been little. Which by the way, so has Jan's. An indication of them lasting awhile???????

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TribalTex29 63 desperate attention whore postings
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10-09-02, 00:34 AM (EST)
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11. "Right on, duuude!"
I totally agree, man.

The first thing I noticed was everyone ripping on Jan's choices, but it was her best option even if it was only by accident. She picked the older other woman, extending her chances. Do you think on a team of young nubile looking girls, they would have had her staying around for long.

And your example of the CG losing the challenges was right on. They were stronger rowers, and only lost by small factors and studpid mistakes. Although I really don't care for too may of the people on either team, I thought it was ridiculous that Dood Robb and his fear of being on the "older" team wasn't really the best thinking. I would have wanted to be on Jan's team myself.

While I'm rooting for some of the members of Sook Jai to make it to the final four, I would definitele want to see Chuay Ghan even the odds so that they don't pull the dumb idea of trading members by standing on rocks like they did in Marquesas. That was an innacurate way to determine survival.

TT29

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