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IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-16-02, 09:24 PM (EST) "Paschal - Official Final Episode Discussion Thread" Paschal - Official Final Episode Discussion Thread This is the official thread for discussing all final spoilers and speculation regarding this contestant. With such a short time to the final episode, it is crucial that all spoiling discussion be well focused and strictly organized. A (State of the Spoiling) SOTS thread will be generated that will link to and summarize the posts that are generated on this thread along with the discussion that develops on the other Official discussion threads. Remember... there are only three days... organization will be all important.   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    Final 2 Speculation Bebo 05-17-02 1    RE: Final 2 Speculation PagongRatEater 05-17-02 4  RE: Paschal - Official Final Episo... jkokoj 05-17-02 2    Sweet (and other speculation) sorgee 05-17-02 3        RE: Sweet (and other speculation) Ra_8secs 05-18-02 15  He's literally fighting to survive JohnMc 05-17-02 5  RE: Paschal - the old Tahiti Presse... toddE 05-17-02 6    RE: Paschal - the old Tahiti Presse... PepeLePew13 05-17-02 7        RE: Paschal - the old Tahiti Presse... Kokoro 05-17-02 8            RE: Paschal - the old Tahiti Presse... shakes the clown 05-17-02 13  RE: Paschal - Official Final Episo... Kokoro 05-17-02 9    RE: Paschal - Official Final Episo... Ra_8secs 05-18-02 16  No prior votes JohnMc 05-17-02 10  Weakest in the end? spartan 05-17-02 11    RE: Weakest in the end? idiotcowboy 05-17-02 12    RE: Weakest in the end? Ra_8secs 05-18-02 17  PAPPY is ready for retirement. Napalm in the Morning 05-17-02 14  Bump IceCat 05-19-02 18

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Bebo 21083 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-17-02, 09:33 AM (EST) 1. "Final 2 Speculation" LAST EDITED ON 05-17-02 AT 09:34 AM (EST) Per the CBS preview, feelings of betrayal are an issue. We were shown Paschal giving his word to John, and then he voted for John at the next TC. In interviews, John has implied that he's not done yet, which could mean that he provides the sparks during the jury questions. John grilling Paschal about going back on his word would reasonably tie together these two instances. This leads me to believe that Paschal is a probable final 2 candidate. Rude snot fluent in Sarcastic...and those are my good points. 'Canes Rock! Beat Canada!   Top

PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-17-02, 12:07 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Final 2 Speculation" I think everyone on the jury has an axe to grind and regardless of which two people are in the final there are feelings of bitterness and "betrayal" - reasonable or not. Zoe could feel betrayed by Kathy, Sean could feel betrayed by everybody, Jonh could feel betrayed by MB and Jiffy. I don't know that there is specificity inplied by the "feelings of betrayal" spoiler.   Top

jkokoj 4389 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 05-17-02, 09:42 AM (EST) 2. "RE: Paschal - Official Final Episode Discussion Thread" I agree with Bebo in regard to John and his comments. Kathy felt pretty strongly in TC last night about the way Sean and Vee were currently playing. Vee has switched sides for too long. Vee will be the next to go and I believe Kathy would pick Paschal over Neleh based upon her previous comments regarding Neleh being "so damn sweet".   Top

sorgee 1455 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson" 05-17-02, 11:30 AM (EST) 3. "Sweet (and other speculation)" LAST EDITED ON 05-17-02 AT 12:23 PM (EST) I can say that were I am from calling someone sweet in the manner that Kathy did is essentially the same as giving the kiss of death. Saying someone is "sweet" or saying something like "bless there heart" makes it acceptable to say anything else about them that you want. It gives you a wayt o be catty without appearing malicious. For example, that Jiffy is such a jacka$$, but bless his heart he tries so hard to give us a good show. Or, that Jerri is such a slut, but she is so sweet. Now, I don't know for certain that Kathy was saying it with this degree of mockery, but I would speculate that she was and I would be willing to place a bet on it. We also know that a few players have made unfavorable comments about Nelly in the past few episodes. Kathy may be thinking that Nelly would not be a crowd favorite with the jury and that her chances may be pretty good against her. Kathy has also stated in various forms that she thinks that Pappy is her greatest threat. Because of her statements I'm assuming that she is not aware of the John - Pappy "issue". In which case she may see him as a bigger threat than he is. IMHO, the man is definitely weak right now. Vee is a free agent, but I bet she would be willing to strike up a deal. She has switched sides frequently, but has she ever actually broken a promise? (I don't think so, but I'm not really certain...) Vee has an alliance with herself(and JC) and that's that. I'm not convinced that Kathy has decided how the jury would vote if it were her and Vee. There's something about a free agent that is always dangerous. However, Kathy has also been a free agent. I wouldn't be suprised at all if Vee and Kathy strike up a deal. On the flipside, in Kathy's mind - assuming that she doesn't know about the John-Pappy broken deal -she may continue to think that he is her biggest threat and go after him, or she may target Vee. However, I am speculating that Kathy will think she can win the final 2 battle against Nelly and will try to have her go to final 2 with her. In any case, I'm betting Kathy takes the whole thing. (edited to add that I know most of this post concerns more Kathy and Nelly than it does Pappy, but I but it here because of the "sweet" factor.)   Top

Ra_8secs 1081 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest" 05-18-02, 00:01 AM (EST) 15. "RE: Sweet (and other speculation)" They've certainly been paiting Pappy us as the old soldier fading away last two episodes. Therefore, he won't. Some slightly believable stuff about Neleh finally getting vulnerable. Or lost. That lost look regarding her missing Tiki at IC was classic. Kathy's certainly being stroked as the strong one. Vecepia's shown strength, but duplicitude. Vee's gone this first hour on Sunday, and then Pappy. Kathy and Neleh final 2. (Of course, I change my mind every hour or so.) and hugs and sunshine for all, Ra   Top

JohnMc 2679 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson" 05-17-02, 12:16 PM (EST) 5. "He's literally fighting to survive" He expressed exactly how weak he was last night. We saw him lying down a lot. He didn't get past the first portion of the RC, and he tripped during the IC and didn't get up very fast. He doesn't care about competing in the challenges anymore because he is so weak. In Fallen Comrades, he may fair better because it is mental. He had enough fire to take on Sean in the campfire discussion as well as during the heated TC. I think his courtroom experience allowed him to reflexively keep Sean in his place, but he might not have his "A-game on" for FC. He should survive F4 unless Vee wins immunity. If she does, then he and Neleh will have to vote for Kathy, and Vee and Kathy will have to vote against N or P, ending in a tie vote. Odds of this are slim, though not impossible, so I say that Paschal survives this round and Vee goes. In an endurance IC, Paschal won't be able to win unless he gets to lie on the ground. His only chance of making F2 is if Neleh wins. If Kathy wins, then it's a toss up. Save the rest for a non-Pappy thread. If he makes F2 w/Kathy, I say he loses 4-3. Old Rotu will vote against him because of N/P breaking the deal to vote off Sean and Vee. If he makes F2 w/Neleh, I say he wins . Since they have acted as a unit for the whole game, all betrayals have been joint betrayals and effectively cancel each other out. It's kind of like deciding between Tina and Colby, only we didn't really see that one coming. In this case, I think people will respect Pappy much more than they did MamaKim. He has been strong up until the last few days, but he still would have outlasted all the jury members. He was very strong in the RC that he won as well as the one he won w/Sean. Neleh has been seen as riding his coattails, and just not possessing the same maturity. (Interesting, though, if the oldest player and the youngest player make F2!) Here's how I see a P/N F2: John - Neleh - still bitter about betrayal of Old Rotu and sees Paschal as the source instead of Neleh Zoe - Paschal - respect for playing for so long Tammy - Paschal - doesn't like Neleh - sees her riding Pappy's coattails Robert - Neleh - same as John Sean - Paschal - lots of respect, and doesn't like Neleh Vee - Paschal - same opinion as Sean about Neleh Kathy - Paschal - lots of respect, plus Neleh just voted her off. The F3 bootee has NEVER voted for their booter Pappy wins 5-2 in this scenario   Top

toddE 1433 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson" 05-17-02, 12:22 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Paschal - the old Tahiti Presse spoiler" I am wondering about the old story from the somewhat unreliabe Tahiti Presse about a "brunette man and woman" in the Final 2. Obviously, if true it means Paschal makes the finals. The brunette thing, if true, would mean Vecepia, but hair color is an easier mistake than gender. Though a P/V final would be interesting, I can't see how it would happen.   Top

PepeLePew13 26134 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-17-02, 12:36 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Paschal - the old Tahiti Presse spoiler" >I am wondering about the old story from the somewhat unreliabe >Tahiti Presse about a "brunette man and woman" in the Final 2. I think it's safe to say we should completely trash this alleged spoiler. Pappy's not exactly a "brunette" and anyone within a mile can see that he's got graying hair. Yes, Vee could be considered a 'brunette' but I think that anyone reporting on this would be able to distinguish between a brunette and an African-American person and say so accordingly. The only thing that might possibly come from this spoiler is that we may have a man and a woman, period, in the final 2 and ignore the hair colours. Thx for a great year.   Top

Kokoro 3899 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 05-17-02, 04:17 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Paschal - the old Tahiti Presse spoiler" That "spoiler" wasn't even from TP anyway - a radio DJ said that he knew there was a brunette woman in the final 2. Later he said he knew this because he heard Tammy (in a restaurant?) saying that she had to wear the same clothes, keep her hair the same, etc. ----------------------------------- Now let us never speak of S3 again.   Top

shakes the clown 3366 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 05-17-02, 08:45 PM (EST) 13. "RE: Paschal - the old Tahiti Presse spoiler" >That "spoiler" wasn't even from TP >anyway - a radio DJ >said that he knew there >was a brunette woman in >the final 2. ....I also heard a spoiler that said that Lis really kicked butt in the challenges, and that the winner of this year's first place prize would receive, instead of a Saturn SUV, a sea faring kangaroo along with a lifetime subscription to the Tahitian Press.   Top

Kokoro 3899 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 05-17-02, 04:20 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Paschal - Official Final Episode Discussion Thread" <<Ok, you and pappy had a great bond going at that feast. Then all hell broke loose. What happened to the love? Sean: All is fair in love and war. You can't have love without a little hate. Paschal was there to play the game and so was I and if you notice in the tribal council when Paschal cast his vote for me with everything that just transpired he still called me a great competitor and all you can ask is that your competitors respect you even if they don't necessarily agree with everything about you.>> He also later excuses Paschal for comments he made last night on the show. Sean still respects Pappy, which counts in the final vote - although this could be in hindsight. ----------------------------------- Now let us never speak of S3 again.   Top

Ra_8secs 1081 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest" 05-18-02, 00:05 AM (EST) 16. "RE: Paschal - Official Final Episode Discussion Thread" Kokoro, I think there is a real thing between Sean and Paschal. Disinguish ain't in it. Love'd Pappy's saying "If you'd just listen for a while, and stop running your mouth all the time." Sean, to his credit, has always been above board honest. His TC confessional after the boot was very good and humble. If Pappy last's to final 2 (doubtful, IMHO), He's got Sean's Vote. The Rotu four shall control. I think they pick Kathy or Vee over anybody else. and hugs and sunshine for all, Ra   Top

JohnMc 2679 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson" 05-17-02, 04:25 PM (EST) 10. "No prior votes" In S1, Kelly didn't get any votes against her in the game and lost. In S2, Tina didn't get any votes against her, and she won. In S3 (let us never speak again of S3), Ethan didn't get any votes, and he won. Is the pattern that the person who never gets a vote will win, or will it statistically mean that the non-vote getter should now lose? Also, the person who gets booted at F3 has had a previous vote against him/her. This still leaves Paschal safe. Any thoughts?   Top

spartan 280 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 05-17-02, 06:42 PM (EST) 11. "Weakest in the end?" Has there ever been a Final Four player in weaker physical condition that Pappy displayed last night? Beyond his expressed weakness to Kathy and Neleh, and his tumble in the IC, you can also seem his steadying himself during the short walk from TC area to the "voting booth". The only person in the final 4 that I can recall being in this bad a shape is Lex - who was obviously very ill in the final IC. I think this must bode well for Kathy. If she does the obvious and V is out next, she has only one person to beat in the final IC given Pappy's current physical state.   Top

idiotcowboy 1135 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest" 05-17-02, 07:35 PM (EST) 12. "RE: Weakest in the end?" Mitchell in S2 was begging to be voted off as I recall. He was a physical wreak and only last a 4 episodes. -ICB   Top

Ra_8secs 1081 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest" 05-18-02, 00:08 AM (EST) 17. "RE: Weakest in the end?" I completeley ROFLMAO at Pappy toppling is Totem, like giving up the chess game. He'd already given up the challenge when he knew that stilts were involved. His admission about being foggy was clearly honest, too. But that said, Pappy's been a clever player. I'd give more points to Kathy for hustle. Vee for subterfuge, and Neleh for, well, nice smelling hair. I'd like to see how Pappy and Kathy get the jury vote. and hugs and sunshine for all, Ra   Top

Napalm in the Morning 50 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 05-17-02, 10:09 PM (EST) 14. "PAPPY is ready for retirement." Pappy has already verbally admitted he is completely drained, and his showing at Ep12 challenges provided even more evidence that was true. (Even though the preview vid caps prepared us for it, his fall in the IC - and the ensuing sound he makes - was classic!) If all things were equal, I would think the Judge would be the favorite for any upcoming mental challenges. However, IMHO, his physical condition has wore heavily on his mind as well. He didn't fare well at all in the Ep12 story question answering IC, and he completely lost it at the TC with Sean. Speaking of Pappy erupting at the TC, IMO he sealed his fate with the Rotu4 in attendance. They saw the bitter old man who brought them down - scolding Sean. The Rotu4 must have seen that as arrogant and hypocritical. How can he scold Sean for trying to save himself by "creating" an alliance at TC (even though we all knew S/V were tight), when Pappy has admitted he's had one with Neleh since Day 1? The Rotu4 must have seen Pappy as literally playing judge, jury and executioner when the votes were counted. Therefore, IMHO, even if Pappy makes F2, he's toast with jury. (By the way, it would be a cool story if Paschal made the F2, and the "jury" voted the "judge" as "guilty" of conspiracy.) As far as Pappy being a target: We know he's last on Neleh's list, but he must be a prime target on both Kathy and Vee's list. Kathy has already stated he's her biggest threat and needs to split up N/P. Vee must be bitter the way he treated Sean in the end, and knows she must also split up N/P. Obviously, without knowing who will win the next two IC's, I would guess Pappy would vote for: 1.) VEE - based on his conversation with Kathy when she asked him to volunteer his views on S/V. 2.) KATHY - solely based on his promise to Neleh. 3.) NELEH - Only if she did not win the IC in F3.   Top

IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-19-02, 04:34 PM (EST) 18. "Bump"   Top

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