The Amazing Race   American Idol   The Apprentice   The Bachelor   The Bachelorette   Big Brother   The Biggest Loser
Dancing with the Stars   So You Think You Can Dance   Survivor   Top Model   The Voice   The X Factor       Reality TV World
   
Reality TV World Message Board Forums
PLEASE NOTE: The Reality TV World Message Boards are filled with desperate attention-seekers pretending to be one big happy PG/PG13-rated family. Don't be fooled. Trying to get everyone to agree with you is like herding cats, but intolerance for other viewpoints is NOT welcome and respect for other posters IS required at all times. Jump in and play, and you'll soon find out how easy it is to fit in, but save your drama for your mama. All members are encouraged to read the complete guidelines. As entertainment critic Roger Ebert once said, "If you disagree with something I write, tell me so, argue with me, correct me--but don't tell me to shut up. That's not the American way."
"Neleh as Strategizer"
Email this topic to a friend
Printer-friendly version of this topic
Bookmark this topic (Registered users only)
Archived thread - Read only 
Previous Topic | Next Topic 
Conferences Survivor Spoilers Forum (Protected)
Original message

MattyMax 515 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"

04-26-02, 05:28 AM (EST)
Click to EMail MattyMax Click to send private message to MattyMax Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
"Neleh as Strategizer"
This week, I think we saw Neleh as an incredible strategizer. She appeared to have controlled the vote for Zoe, who many on the boards thought was floating in the background. Zoe, 1. serious immunity threat (the abs on that woman....) 2. PARTNER FOR KATHY!!!

Neleh had the voiceover that they might vote of Zoe because she is an immunity threat, which many of us weren't even considering. I think this shows Neleh's position of leader in the alliance of losers/floaters. She makes the decisions. She knew that while Rob was unpleasant, it's better to get rid of your threats.

I was suprised by the level of her technique. It was advanced Survivor reasoning. keep your friends close, your enemies closer, and those nasty swing voters in the Jury. Was anybody else really suprised by her reasoning? and how smart it was? It's suprising to be OUTsmarted by a survivor, thinking you know the boot order, and then Neleh making very prudent decisions about how the game should continue.

I think we see Neleh as the leader of the 5, and I see her as a definite final 4 person. It's nice to see America's sweetheart not struggling against a nasty alliance (as we have seen with Colleen, LisLis, and Ki... nevermind on that last one) A cutie with some brains, and she does have a RUTHLESS quality that we haven't seen in the younger female players as much. She's been smiling on the past couple of votes and decorating her ballot, she kissed Zoe away, and her smile when she dropped her John ballot was frightening.

I guess in this thread I would like to hear people's opinions of Neleh, especially as pertains to her strategizing (we all know she's 'cute' <if not a little bug eyed>).

MattyMax

  Top

  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: Neleh as Strategizer craftylady 04-26-02 1
   RE: Neleh as Strategizer performanz 04-26-02 2
       RE: Neleh as Strategizer samiam 04-26-02 4
           Neleh/Pappy ConningOfficer 04-26-02 6
       RE: Neleh as Strategizer MeToo 04-26-02 5
   RE: Neleh as Strategizer zzz 04-26-02 3
       RE: Neleh as Strategizer Spidey 04-26-02 8
           RE: Neleh as Strategizer PepeLePew13 04-29-02 19
 RE: Neleh as Strategizer JohnMc 04-26-02 7
   RE: Neleh as Strategizer ADKer 04-26-02 14
 I do not get Neleh (and Pashal) heymikey 04-26-02 9
   RE: I do not get Neleh (and Pashal) MeToo 04-26-02 11
       RE: I do not get Neleh (and Pashal) heymikey 04-26-02 12
           RE: I do not get Neleh (and Paschal... Lurking 04-29-02 18
       RE: I do not get Neleh (and Pashal) zzz 04-26-02 13
 RE: Neleh as Strategizer Fast Eddie 04-26-02 10
   Vee BMH 04-26-02 15
       Neleh managerr 04-26-02 16
 Fighting Chances Seyz 04-27-02 17
   RE: Fighting Chances Zentar 04-29-02 20
 Not a Strategizer.... MikeD 04-29-02 21

Lobby | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

Messages in this topic

craftylady 1 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"

04-26-02, 10:15 AM (EST)
Click to EMail craftylady Click to send private message to craftylady Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
1. "RE: Neleh as Strategizer"
Talk about your huge leaps! They choose to use Neleh's comments to use as the voice over....and the next thing you know, she's running the tribe? I don't think so. With the exception of last week when going out 5th or 6th was not acceptable and she went against John and his alliance, she is definitely a follower. And who is she following?? I don't think there is much of a mystery on who's the main strategizer. Sean is pulling the strings. And Vee is no slouch. She definitely has the art of playing both sides down to a science. In the recap show, Vee's pleading apology to Sean made it clear that Sean is the leader. I have no doubt that Sean led the discussion that the next bootee was going to be Zoe. Sean likes Robert more, and Zoe is too strong.
  Top

performanz 46 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"

04-26-02, 11:09 AM (EST)
Click to EMail performanz Click to send private message to performanz Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
2. "RE: Neleh as Strategizer"
I also disagree. If anything I think it showed that Neleh is
not the leader of the 5. My guess is that Kathy or Paschal or both are the ones calling the shots.
Zoe committed the survivor cardinal sin, trying to play both sides of the fence without telling someone you are doing it.
I expect both Kathy and Paschal, who seem to want the game to be played straight up, would rather keep someone who tells the truth like Robert than an obvious fake like Zoe was.
I do not believe Zoe was booted because she was a threat.
She was ultimately booted because nobody could believe anything she said or did.
  Top

samiam 5976 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

04-26-02, 11:20 AM (EST)
Click to EMail samiam Click to send private message to samiam Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
4. "RE: Neleh as Strategizer"
someone who tells the truth like Robert

Um...how about that point last night where he told Pappy and Neleh that no one had ever approached him to be in an alliance?

I think that EPM's using Neleh to narrate. This does not mean that she is the powerhouse behind the decision-making process, just that she's being shoved down our throats as the cute little sweetheart.

"You are a fluke of the Universe. You have no right to be here. And whether you can hear it or not, the Universe is laughing behind your back." - Tony Hendra, Deteriorata

  Top

ConningOfficer 585 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"

04-26-02, 01:06 PM (EST)
Click to EMail ConningOfficer Click to send private message to ConningOfficer Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
6. "Neleh/Pappy"
Sami, you're right on the money with this one. Neleh makes a great narrator, since she's so sugary-sweet, and while not the most iron-fisted of the remaining contestants, she does have a head for the game.

Determining who the "leader" of the alliance of 5 is a little tougher, but during the discussion (desperation attempt) with Tammy and Robert, Paschal really impressed me. Unlike many contestants, Paschal drew on his experience of BS-detection (as a judge) and telling people the truth, even when that's not what they want to hear (i.e. Pappy disagreeing with Tattoo Bob straightforwardly, respectfully, yet immediately).

This combination of low-key and honest leadership will be a key factor when the alliance of 5 has to turn on themselves. Barring a General Admission/Tammy-Xena immunity run, this dynamic may be featured in the final 2.

  Top

MeToo 158 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"

04-26-02, 11:30 AM (EST)
Click to EMail MeToo Click to send private message to MeToo Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
5. "RE: Neleh as Strategizer"
I agree with Performanz, but it's not Pascal, it's Kathy. Pascal only recently became aware of the game and I think he genuinely wants everyone to play fair (i.e. don't gang up on the others). He didn't buy into Tammy and Robert's plea to re-align with them because he's NOT stupid and he knew they were just trying to save their own skin. He's still in a mind frame to vote them off first (as opposed to Sean) because they "played dirty". Kathy, on the other hand, has had the opportunity to bond with P & N as part of NewMu, plus she has gotten to know Sean & Vee AFTER she toned down her own play (became less annoying) AND during a time when Sean and Vee needed allies. Don't forget, Sean and Kathy were in together for voting off John before Pascal and Neleh switched over.

In fact, it's entirely possible that the real (hidden) alliance is between Sean and Kathy.

Okay, that's pushing it. But is it really?

MeToo

  Top

zzz 703 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"

04-26-02, 11:17 AM (EST)
Click to EMail zzz Click to send private message to zzz Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
3. "RE: Neleh as Strategizer"
Assuming Sean is the leader is just as much a leap as assuming Neleh is the leader. We were not privy to the conversation in which they decided to vote off Zoe over Robert, so we cannot be sure who really pushed for it to be Zoe.

Actually, I am not really sure it matters who is the leader. The 5 are all in agreement that Tammy and Robert should go next (and in that order if possible). Once it gets down to final 5, who goes will depend more on relationships and personal strategy than who is the leader. After all, Lex being the "leader" did not stop KimJ from picking Ethan over Lex.

Most likely, it will really be Kathy that has the "power" because I believe she will have to decide which "pair" to align with. I think she will stick with N/P, but there are good arguments for S/V. I doubt that those 4 would all gang up on K because that would inevitably lead to a tie at the final 4. So who is the "leader"? I don't really know. It could be N or S or even P. But the real question is who has the power?--and that, I believe, is K.

  Top

Spidey 6259 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

04-26-02, 01:33 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Spidey Click to send private message to Spidey Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
8. "RE: Neleh as Strategizer"

>Most likely, it will really be
>Kathy that has the "power"
>because I believe she will
>have to decide which "pair"
>to align with. I
>think she will stick with
>N/P, but there are good
>arguments for S/V.

I totally agree that Kathy is the swing vote at 5, assuming the obvious that T and R go next, barring immunity.

But I totally disagree she will side with N/P. Although she might have a final 2 chance against Pappy, NO WAY could she win against Neleh in the final. Both played strategically, and Neleh is just much more likeable.

Kathy would be an idiot not to go F3 with S/V. She is likely to beat either one of them in the F2. I just don't think she is dumb enough to go with N/P, unless she is somehow related to Colby...

  Top

PepeLePew13 26134 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

04-29-02, 07:18 AM (EST)
Click to EMail PepeLePew13 Click to send private message to PepeLePew13 Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
19. "RE: Neleh as Strategizer"

>But I totally disagree she will side with N/P. Although she
>might have a final 2 chance against Pappy, NO WAY could she
>win against Neleh in the final. Both played strategically,
>and Neleh is just much more likeable.
>
>
>Kathy would be an idiot not to go F3 with S/V.
>She is likely to beat either one of them
>in the F2. I just don't think she is
>dumb enough to go with N/P, unless she is somehow
>related to Colby...

Actually I think there is a very strong chance that Kathy will choose to go with Neleh/Paschal for two reasons.

One, is that these two are original Rotus like Kathy, and we've seen earlier that original tribal ties are strong (N/P booted Gina instead of Kathy in Maraamu) and she may worry about N/P's votes on the jury if she decides to go with S/V. We've seen repeatedly throughout the 4 Survivors that original tribal bonds are stronger than game common sense.

Two, Kathy has to think of which is the easier road to get to the final two -- she knows that N and P are tight, she knows that S and V are probably tighter together than with her so perhaps her ONLY shot of getting to F2 is to win the IC -- and she'll have an easier time competing against N and P in an endurance IC than against Sean.

GO HABS!
"I'm the General and that's that."
Robert DeCanio, April 11/02

  Top

JohnMc 2679 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson"

04-26-02, 01:14 PM (EST)
Click to EMail JohnMc Click to send private message to JohnMc Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
7. "RE: Neleh as Strategizer"
Ok, Neleh may be the strategizer, but exactly who is the "leader" is much in question.

From day 1, Rotu has had leadership from more than one source. Mostly it was John and Kathy, but there were also elements from Gabe and Tammy. Even though there have been multiple leaders, the tribe pretty much led itself in terms of survival, and they never really had to designate a "leader" until they booted Gabe and John was the orchestrator of the boot-Gabe club.

Maraamuu's leader was Hunter until he was booted, and then we had the swap, and Kathy took over. At the merge, we came back to having multiple leaders. John and Tammy on Rotu, plus Rob and Sean tried to gain some element of control. Plus with Kathy coming back, there were lots of people vying for control. Control seemed to fall in a number of places, including the 17th player - EPM (or as I like to call, EBM).

As far as the Moomoo 5 are concerned, P/N are the big power players because: 1) They are both VERY well liked and 2) Everyone knows they are tight. Kathy (as the New Moomoo leader) and Sean (now the leader of Old Moomoo) came together to try to get the Power Two on their side. Almost failed were it not for EBM, but when they saw what their options were, they ultimately controlled their outcome. Tammy and Robert, like everyone else out on the island, recognized P/N's power and tried to get them to sway in order to save their own hides, which of course was seen through.

Soooo... in Moomoo 5, we really have 4 leaders: Sean, Kathy, Neleh, and Paschal. All 4 have power in the tribe and in my mind, it is shared.

  Top

ADKer 143 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"

04-26-02, 05:02 PM (EST)
Click to EMail ADKer Click to send private message to ADKer Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
14. "RE: Neleh as Strategizer"
">Soooo... in Moomoo 5, we really
>have 4 leaders: Sean,
>Kathy, Neleh, and Paschal.
>All 4 have power in
>the tribe and in my
>mind, it is shared."

Paschal and Neleh have more power because of the bond between them. The various comments about the limits of Neleh's insight seem accurate but she is sweet, sincere and Paschal listens to her. Kathy could not persuade Paschal to vote with Sean and Vee but Neleh, after the coconut challenge, just told Paschal that they were going to vote with Sean et al. The dynamic and bond between Neleh and Paschal makes them much better players than either would be alone.

The power in the tribe is not shared in the sense that there is significant concensus and cooperation; it is simply limited.


  Top

heymikey 238 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"

04-26-02, 01:43 PM (EST)
Click to EMail heymikey Click to send private message to heymikey Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
9. "I do not get Neleh (and Pashal)"
One thing that I do not understand with Neleh and Paschal is how inconsistent they are with their "strategizing". For god's sakes, they keep on saying that they want to be around with people who do not manipulate or lie to people. Isn't lying and forming alliances strategical moves? Isn't that part of the game?

They voted out Zoe as a strategical move and yet, they can't see the fact that John or Tammy or Robert made an alliance as a strategical move. Sure, they made an alliance; Big deal. There is no difference between voting someone off simply because they are a threat to the IC, and forming alliances. Both are strategical moves and both are not against the rules.

I bet Neleh and Paschal lied to Zoe's face if she had ever asked them who they will be voting out.

  Top

MeToo 158 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"

04-26-02, 02:34 PM (EST)
Click to EMail MeToo Click to send private message to MeToo Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
11. "RE: I do not get Neleh (and Pashal)"
The difference between N/P and John was that John led them to believe they (N/P) were part of his alliance, when in fact they were not. At least, they were the lowest and most expendable member of that "alliance" and they made that perfectly clear during the E8 challenge. Sure, Neleh is strategizing by voting with her alliance of 5, but they haven't had the opportunity to lie or backstab yet as they still have nonmembers to vote out.

As for Zoe, she did NOT ask if she were being voted next, so we will never know. Somehow, I think that P/N would have sidestepped around the question. Neleh never did admit who she was going to vote for between Kathy and Gina back at MuMu, yet that vote seemed to be predetermined as well.

MeToo

  Top

heymikey 238 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"

04-26-02, 02:47 PM (EST)
Click to EMail heymikey Click to send private message to heymikey Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
12. "RE: I do not get Neleh (and Pashal)"
>>> The difference between N/P and John was that John led them to believe they (N/P) were part of his alliance, when in fact they were not.

Well, isn't that part of the game? Ever since the first season of "Survivor", people lie in this game. Anyways, I just did not like Paschal's reasons for not believing Tammy and Robert. He said that they want to be around with people they can trust and not manipulate. Tammy and Robert did form an alliance with John but that doesn't mean that they manipulate people.

  Top

Lurking 156 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"

04-29-02, 04:29 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Lurking Click to send private message to Lurking Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
18. "RE: I do not get Neleh (and Paschal)"
It's part of the game but N/P don't want to get involved in it.
  Top

zzz 703 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"

04-26-02, 02:49 PM (EST)
Click to EMail zzz Click to send private message to zzz Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
13. "RE: I do not get Neleh (and Pashal)"
Me too, Me Too. That is to say, I basically agree with you. A lot of people are talking about what hypocrites N and P are. While I agree that to some extent they seem hypocritical, there is a meaningful distinction. I believe they are hypocrites because they keep talking about keeping it "fair" for everyone, while they obviously have no intention of allowing R or T to have a chance in the game any more, and they are pretty sure to have the votes to get them out.

But they are not hypocrites in this sense--what bothered them the most was the lying and using. John led them to believe they were equal alliance member when they were clearly at the bottom of the alliance. Even Lex let Kelly and KimJ know they were at the bottom of the alliance. N and P have not made any promises to anyone that they are not willing to keep. They believe, however, that John did make a promise (i.e., that there were no suballiances in the "alliance") that he did not intend to keep. Of course, John had to make this up to win. He just needed to do a better job of hiding it.

The bottom line is that N and P had to switch alliances to have a chance to win. I just wish they would admit that fact in a straight forward way. They are not necessarily any "better" or "more deserving" than John and his alliance. They just outwitted them. But I do believe them that they have not made any pre-determined deal for who goes once their 5 person alliance is down to just the five of them. To that extent, their alliance is "more pure" than John's alliance.

  Top

Fast Eddie 625 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"

04-26-02, 02:28 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Fast%20Eddie Click to send private message to Fast%20Eddie Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
10. "RE: Neleh as Strategizer"
No-lay as strategizer? You must be kidding. I think she proved her complete lack of such ability with the opening comment about how they had beaten the alliance at their own game and seemed really delighted. The Gufu 4 made their plans so obvious even Amber could have seen what was going on and what had to be done. Yet No-lay seemed to think she had made some kind of brilliant discovery. Duhhh.
  Top

BMH 845 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"

04-26-02, 05:45 PM (EST)
Click to EMail BMH Click to send private message to BMH Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
15. "Vee"
Personally..I believe Vee has more power than people here give her credit for..She may not be the leader of the 5 person alliance but i believe that she has a good chance of winning this game..against almost anybody but Neleh and Paschal..She does play both sides and that is a good quality because if Robert or Tammy go on the jury i beleive they would vote for her over K/P/N..possibly..just some thoughtz..bc i feel many people are under-rating Vee as a potential survivor 4 finalist
  Top

managerr 1959 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"

04-26-02, 11:21 PM (EST)
Click to EMail managerr Click to send private message to managerr Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
16. "Neleh"
I question whether or not Neleh really has control--but she is being *edited* to look like she's in control. She's the one they are showing as the "strategist" in the narrator sense--and who do they show Zoe kissing up to? Neleh. Who did Tammy and Robert approach to align with? Neleh and Pappy. Who do they show talking about the boot? (Zoe vs. Robert) Neleh.

I don't know if it means anything from being able to tell who goes, but they seem to be trying to shove down our throats that Neleh is in charge.

  Top

Seyz 198 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"

04-27-02, 03:16 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Seyz Click to send private message to Seyz Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
17. "Fighting Chances"
I've also heard the talk about Neleh and Pascal being hypocrites.
But I've heard even more talk about how Vee and Sean are hypocrites. It's like they momentarily forgot that they also formed a 4 person alliance to boot Gina, Hunter and Patricia.
If there's a conspiracy in the show.. it was the Sean, Rob, Sarah, Vee alliance...

Anyway...
Tammy and Robert really don't have much of a fighting chance at the moment.. but there's really still a chance for one of them if they go on an immunity run.
If tammy goes on an immunity run.. she needs to really make it to the final five to really have a fighting chance.
Therefore she needs to win this week's immunity challenge and next week's.. then she has a chance.. because it means that the Maraamu 5 will have to start voting each other off.
If tammy can take advantage of this and align with whoever feels threatened.. she could have a chance.
For example.. if Sean and Vee are up against KPN.. Tammy could make a final three pact with Sean and Vee.. or if SVK are up against PN.. she could do the opposite..
So the important thing here.. is that either Tammy or Robert needs to win the IC when there are SIX people left. Then they could really mess things up. I think Tammy may be able to pull this off.. (remaining optimistic)

And I don't think Kathy has power at all.
At this point.. she may have a guaranteed final 3 spot.
BUt it also means that she'll HAVE to win the final IC to have any chance of making it into the final 2.
That's really an only 1/3 chance of making it into the final 2.
I think the couple that makes it into the final 3 (Sean/Vee or Pascal/Neleh) will be the final 2.

  Top

Zentar 19 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson"

04-29-02, 03:31 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Zentar Click to send private message to Zentar Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
20. "RE: Fighting Chances"
I do NOT see Neleh and/or Pascal in leadership roles in this new alliance. They joined the three Kathy/Sean/Vee. I agree they moved from being 5th & 6th to be cast out in Jon's alliance, and now they will be 4th & 5th instead.

If they really strategized they would join Tammy and General this week and knock off Sean, then switch back next week and knock off Tammy or the General. By staying in the alliance with Sean, they are only going to be there until the other group is gone, then they are next. I don't see them as stratagist, they will stay with Sean and then say wow, I got voted off 5th, what happened. Not smart at all.

  Top

MikeD 344 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host"

04-29-02, 08:47 PM (EST)
Click to EMail MikeD Click to send private message to MikeD Click to view user profile Click to check IP address of the poster
21. "Not a Strategizer...."
I just think she's not stupid. The writing was on the wall that Z/J/T/R were together and they prevented those folks from winning. I'll be surprised if she makes the final two.
  Top


Remove

Lobby | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
about this site   •   advertise on this site  •   contact us  •   privacy policy   •