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IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-23-02, 07:25 PM (EST) "Speculation on the Nature of EP9 IC" I initially toyed with placing this post under Shakes new "Extended Vidcap Discussion" thread but that thread was primarily focused on the Tammy immunity necklace cap and attempting to place it into its correct context. I would rather focus on the pic of Zoe on stilts. It's only a few frames but it revealed something that led me to speculate a little. It's up to you to decide if it has any merit. When I first started looking at this sequence of Zoe on stilts, I thought that I was looking at a the elbow of another contestant just off to the right of Zoe's image. I did a quick low-quality capture to see what it was: I zoomed in closer to see if I could get more detail: Slowed down with more frames: Single Frame Grab at higher resolution: Zoomed in on single frame: Then I outlined the object in red: I then realized that I had been chasing a... fence post! An interesting thing I did notice in the fence post was a face - looks like a Vulcan in profile: This all being said, the discovery of a fence post in the forground of the image of Zoe on stilts is not totally devoid of spoiler value. Note that there are two fence posts in the back ground of Zoe and that there appear to be cross members interconnecting the fence posts. If there is a fence post in the foreground as well, the perhaps the fence encircles the entire area in which the competition takes place. Now... why would they enclose the competition area for a stilt walking contest? Maybe the circular fence is there to form an arena in which a head to head competition takes place. Remember piggy-back fights when you were a kid? You bumped and pulled at each other until one team fell down. Maybe the stilt competition is a head-to-head elimination style battle where the contestants push and bump each other off of their stilts. The fence would define the 'in bounds' area. A person would be eliminated by either stepping/falling off of their stilts or by touching the fence. I think that we are due for a head-to-head balance competition. What episode of S2 did they have that elimination challenge where they had a tug-o-war over water and the shakey beam over water challenge? If the IC is a 'knock your opponent off of their stilts' competition, then the following characteristics would give a tribe member a distinct advantage: - balance - agility - low center of mass - moderate strength I thinks that Robert's strength would be more than offset by his high center of mass. I expect Robert will have trouble staying on the stilts even without somebody trying to knock him over. Paschal would lack the agility to win this type of event. I think Neleh would lack the strength to win. Sean seems to be shorter than Robert but still has a well developed upper torso that might make him a little top heavy. Because women typically have a lower center of mass I am thinking that Zoe, Tammy, Kathy, and Vee will have the best chance of making it to the finals in this type of event. I include Kathy based upon her winning performance in the water platform balance. That's as far as I can take this already speculative idea. At least it would make it unlikely that Robert would win IC. Any other ideas?   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: Speculation on the Nature of EP... Kokoro 04-23-02 1    Stilts don't have to be that high..... IceCat 04-23-02 2  RE: Speculation on the Nature of EP... Naked 04-23-02 3    The Wider Shot is Better... IceCat 04-23-02 4        RE: The Wider Shot is Better... jayseae 04-23-02 7            RE: The Wider Shot is Better... IceCat 04-23-02 9  From SurvivorFever.net IceCat 04-23-02 5    RE: From SurvivorFever.net corcam 04-23-02 6    Comparing past challenges GuessItRains 04-24-02 16  RE: Speculation on the Nature of EP... jayseae 04-23-02 8    Good Eye, jayseae! IceCat 04-23-02 10    RE: Speculation on the Nature of EP... jayseae 04-23-02 11    RE: Speculation on the Nature of EP... NorthOfBoston 04-23-02 12    Only one word necessary here: aymelek 04-24-02 18  Maybe this will help... IceCat 04-23-02 13    RE: Maybe this will help... jayseae 04-23-02 14        She Definitely Does Not Step Up... IceCat 04-23-02 15  RE: Speculation on the Nature of EP... Swami 04-24-02 17  RE: Speculation on the Nature of EP... rivers3 04-24-02 19    RE: Speculation on the Nature of EP... DeclaringJihadOnSurvivor 04-24-02 20    RE: Speculation on the Nature of EP... MatineeIdol 04-24-02 21

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Kokoro 3899 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 04-23-02, 08:07 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Speculation on the Nature of EP9 IC" LAST EDITED ON 04-23-02 AT 08:22 PM (EST) Well the first thing that strikes me here is that knocking eachother over would be dangerous....I'm not sure how high up they are but even falling a few feet without proper balance in the first place could cause a broken something or other. (I'm recalling the rumoured "blindfolded horseback-lancing" competition from S2 =) Of course if we know that the stilts are 4 inches high (do we know how high they are?), then I'm totally wrong. Edited to add: So if I'm wrong - I'm saying the episode goes as predicted with one of the Ro-2 going. I really wouldn't expect Tammy or Robert to last long if this is the IC - N/P may play fair but the others would (should) not let them win if they have any control over T/Rs performances in this challenge. According to your spec, I would narrow down the possible winners to Kathy or Zoe - If you're including Kathy based on her balancing skills, Vee should be excluded based on hers. ---------------------------------------- Now let us never speak of S3 again. Kathy: Paschal, they're going to vote us off one by one. Paschal: So? Stop Discrimination Now   Top

IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-23-02, 08:16 PM (EST) 2. "Stilts don't have to be that high..." I doubt the that the tribe members will be much higher than they would be for a piggy back fight. The run across the slippery balance beam in the S2 obstacle course would present a greater danger than pushing/pulling off balance on a pair of low stilts.   Top

Naked 887 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 04-23-02, 08:30 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Speculation on the Nature of EP9 IC" The Cat is back, with the quickest eyes this side of Marqueses !!! Another thought about this object, is it is the top of another contestants stilts. If this where a stationary object, then it would not come into focus on the left when Zoe is moving to the left. examine the motion... I think that this top of another set of stilts that would be a short distance behind Zoe. I also think that the IC will be a race, and that the fence in the background is the boundry of where the contestants can actually run on their stilts. If it where a "pushing contest" then I would think that Zoe would be facing the contestant behind her. I also think that there would be too much chance of injury for these guys to be knocking each other off stilts. I used to play around on stilts as a kid, and it is a hard thing to do to just walk without hurting yourself. Your annalysis of who might win this IC works either way, This will be a balance IC, and favors the women, but it will also need strength, which elimantes Neleh and Kathy IMO. Favorites should be Vee, Tammy, and Zoe. Ice, please keep up the great work. We have missed you over here in Spoilers this season. and thanks for the cool Sig pic again....   Top

IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-23-02, 08:51 PM (EST) 4. "The Wider Shot is Better..." Watch the trees in the background to Zoe's right and compare their movement to the movement of the object in question. The object and the trees are moving in sync with each other. The motion of the object in the foreground is exaggerated because of the fact that they are using a long focal length zoom in this shot. The object in question shifts further across the screen than the background trees because it is in the extreme foreground. With respect to the idea of the object being a stilt, note how Zoe's stilts are made of a light colored bamboo and the object in question is a darker color, more closely matching the wood of the fence. Also, if this object were behind Zoe and in front of the back fence posts, the the object would be in focus. This object is not in focus. Also, you are very welcome for the sig pic. Use it in good health.   Top

jayseae 68 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 04-23-02, 10:01 PM (EST) 7. "RE: The Wider Shot is Better..." >Watch the trees in the background >to Zoe's right and compare >their movement to the movement >of the object in question. With the utmost respect for those awesome eyes, IC - I will buy that the foreground object moves more than the background ones. But the object in question seems to move significantly more than the post immediately behind it. That seems like a lot to attribute to a particular zoom angle (apologies if that's not the correct term). Seems more to me like another moving object, not a stationary one such as a fencepost. I think that the likelihood that the stilts are at best unwieldy makes the idea of a joust unlikely. How about some sort of gauntlet? The other contestants can poke and prod, so long as they don't make contact with the walker? Perhaps even some sort of automated device to psych out the walker - a simple pendulum could produce this sort of movement, which would undoubtedly unnerve the novice stilt walker. Seems a bit more likely (admittedly, that's not a very big bit!) than two such novices squaring off one on one, when any movement at all is likely to send inexperienced walkers flying. I also still question the likelihood of stilts on sand, and on the conestants wearing sandals, as shown in this vidcap walk where Tammy has the necklace. I'm thinking we're missing something here. I've still got a nagging thought that the beach picture isn't from this week's IC. The only member identified in the IC is Zoe, and her clothing is generally similar enough that it could be something from the week after. Sean and Vee missing from the pic enforce the possibility of this, perhaps, though that could be simply a camera angle that takes them out of the picture.   Top

IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-23-02, 10:15 PM (EST) 9. "RE: The Wider Shot is Better..." ... But the object in question seems to move significantly more than the post immediately behind it... The object in question is very, very close to the camera. The post in the back ground is some intermediate distance away. The trees are are the furthest away. The trees move the least, the distant posts. move a little more, and the object in question (which is so close as to be out of focus) moves the most. ... I also still question the likelihood of stilts on sand... The practice of stiltwalking is a time-honored Polynesian tradition. I submit that this fact serves as rather conclusive proof that the sand does not present a problem for stiltwalking. For novices, the show may use one of the many grass covered areas shown on the show (eg: the build the tiki/totem pole challenge) ... and on the conestants wearing sandals, as shown in this vidcap walk where Tammy has the necklace. I'm thinking we're missing something here. I've still got a nagging thought that the beach picture isn't from this week's IC.... I agree the Tammy in sandals pic has nothing to do with the IC for EP9. I am not clear as to why you mention it within the context of this thread.   Top

IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-23-02, 09:22 PM (EST) 5. "From SurvivorFever.net" From their challenges section: "... The stilt walkers, though traditionally seen in cultural gatherings and performances, also raced, danced, jumped and at times jousted. Traditional strict cultural guidelines apparently have not prevented the stilt walkers from gaining a little competitive edge, as it is thought great fun to trip one another up in these events...."   Top

corcam 374 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host" 04-23-02, 10:01 PM (EST) 6. "RE: From SurvivorFever.net" This has absolutely no spoiler value but I would like to just comment that it would be nice to see the people being able to trip each other up (of course in the picture it looks like they are trying to stab the person on the ground to death) also it says that it can be used as a form of dancing, even though it probably isn't pliable dancing on stilts for immunity would be extremely funny to see... can you imagine Robert and Sean LOL   Top

GuessItRains 700 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 04-24-02, 10:00 AM (EST) 16. "Comparing past challenges" Ice, the challenge you refer to in your initial post from S2 did come in E9 with 8 survivors left. There were 3 different balancing competitions: the first was a tug of war on set blocks, the second was some kind of rocking contraption that produced the Amber dance and some others. The third was something else, where Nick beat Colby (in the last IC that Colby didn't win). Here it might be possible that they also do different things in different stages of the competition: racing on stilts in one and jousting in others? I tend to agree with your vid cap analysis that she is moving onto stilts, but I think in thinking about who wins IC we should consider both who could win a joust and who could win a race. My money is still on Zoe, Kathy, or Tammy.   Top

jayseae 68 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 04-23-02, 10:12 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Speculation on the Nature of EP9 IC" Here's another thought. What if Zoe isn't on stilts? I admit that it sure does look like it. But take a look at your slowed-down cap: The alien object in the frame appears to move very nearly in concert with Zoe's left (her left) "stilt". What if these are instead some sort of manipulation tools, drawing devices, something along those lines - and instead of being on the stilts, she is simply manipulating them to some other end? The object to the side then could be something that is moving in response to her actions, not something separate from them? This also removes the stilts on sand and the sandals on stilts problems from the argument. I admit, the slowed down version looks more like Zoe's "stilt" is reacting to the object, not the other way around. Just wondering if perhaps we've painted ourselves into a corner with the idea of this being a stilt-walking challenge. Something similar could certainly be possible, no? Okay, another note. Take a look at Zoe's hands in this pic: Those are certainly not tightly wrapped around the stilts. I'm thinking if I'm on stilts for immunity, even if I'm 2 inches off the ground, I'm holding on as tightly as I can. So either Zoe isn't yet on the stilts, or these aren't stilts...   Top

IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-23-02, 10:23 PM (EST) 10. "Good Eye, jayseae!" You are right about the grip tightness... I went back and looked at the mpg and it Zoe's hand actually lets go of her right stilt as she adjusts her grip. She also rocks back on her left foot as she says 'woohoo'. She is also looking down as she rocks back. As I watched the video it is obvious that she is in the process of of lifting her right foot off the ground and is about to place it into the stilt foot rest. She is still standing on the ground in this sequence and is about to 'mount up' for the joust, hence her 'woohoo' shout.   Top

jayseae 68 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 04-23-02, 10:24 PM (EST) 11. "RE: Speculation on the Nature of EP9 IC" Sorry for yet another post. Here are some pics at survivorfever.net - note the hands. Even less gripping than the ones from Bungler's cap. The last one appears to be overlaid on the left side with a slightly darker band - but it's apparent that Zoe still isn't doing much to grasp that pole! I'm really leaning away from stilts at the moment - the expression on Zoe's face appears to be one of delicate concentration which might indicate something she's supposed to be doing with those poles (other than walk on them). I'm just having a tough time believing that she's concentrating on standing on stilts, what with the way those hands are (not) wrapped around the poles. The grip does seem to be getting tighter in this progression - so it's possible she's getting ready to climb aboard. But take a look at her left arm (our right). If she's getting on the stilts, wouldn't her arm get closer to the pole, rather than pushing it away from her? Yet her arm appears to be extending in this progression of pictures. Perhaps a balancing act, if she is trying to compensate for it not being in the right spot, but I don't see her being on the stilts until the last picture, at best - and that wouldn't seem to make sense with the way the pole is being moved away from her body. Am I nuts? Just want to make sure we've considered any alternatives...   Top

NorthOfBoston 158 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 04-23-02, 10:39 PM (EST) 12. "RE: Speculation on the Nature of EP9 IC" re: "The alien object in the frame appears to move very nearly in concert with Zoe's left (her left) "stilt". What if these are instead some sort of manipulation tools, drawing devices, something along those lines - and instead of being on the stilts, she is simply manipulating them to some other end?" I absolutely agree with you; when I first saw the top videocap (and NICE CAPTURE, by the way), I thought the same thing: why is the object moving in a synchronized manner to her swaying? Also, your point on the lack of grip is interesting and has solidified my belief. Although the idea of the survivors dancing and jousting on stilts (and possibly pushing others into the center and jumping ON them LOL) is intriguing, I think Zoe is standing on a larger contraption and is manipulating it. Although she is looking downward (as one might if she is trying to balance on something off the ground), it could be that she is manipulating the "staffs" to control something else in the center (I'm imagining the group poised in a circle; no back-up information on this theory, just my imagination). OR it might be that all of the contestants ARE on stilts but that the stilts are tied to each other (like one big balance beam). Thus the movements of each person would cause the others (like dominoes) to wobble. This still is similar to the log-balance challenge of S2. The contestants must then balance on their own stilts AND try to knock others off theirs at the same time. This would agree with both the stilts theory AND the synchronicity of the alien object.   Top

aymelek 1220 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest" 04-24-02, 10:28 AM (EST) 18. "Only one word necessary here:" Log-rolling!!! LMAO!!   Top

IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-23-02, 11:02 PM (EST) 13. "Maybe this will help..." Here is the full sequence in slow motion: There are several different motions at work here: 1) Zoe's torso and head move as she shifts her weight; 2) The stilts move as Zoe moves her arms and adjusts her grip; 3) The trees, the background fence post, the foreground fence post, and Zoe move as a result of a circular camera jiggle. To judge the camera movement you must compare an object's apparent motion to the edge of the frame NOT to another object within the frame. Zoe is standing on the ground, shifting her weight from one foot to the other, looking down, adjusting her grip and preparing to step up.   Top

jayseae 68 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 04-23-02, 11:13 PM (EST) 14. "RE: Maybe this will help..." >Zoe is standing on the ground, >shifting her weight from one >foot to the other, looking >down, adjusting her grip and >preparing to step up. Thanks for the entire clip, IC. I see what you're saying, but I think it's still some speculation that she does indeed step up. I think it is apparent from what we've seen here that she is not yet on the stilts. Be nice if we had more info to determine if she ever does make that step - or if there's something else that she's trying to accomplish. In the meantime, I have a favor to ask. I think I might have found something with the beach shot. You've got much better resources than I, and undoubtedly a better eye. Can you take a look at my latest post in this thread and let me know if you think I'm onto something, or if I'm just in desperate need of sleep? Thanks!   Top

IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-23-02, 11:26 PM (EST) 15. "She Definitely Does Not Step Up..." She is only preparing to. Off to look at your thread before I call it a night.   Top

Swami 5885 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-24-02, 10:00 AM (EST) 17. "RE: Speculation on the Nature of EP9 IC" Zoe looks like she's up on the stilts to me. Her shoulders displace laterally quite a bit in the 'animated' sequence, as they would if her center of gravity were higher. Her shoulders do not appear to change to higher position (as in step up) relative to the fence posts behind her, so she does not appear to me to be stepping up onto stilts in this sequence. If I recall correctly, you want a loose controlling grip, not a death grip, while on stilts. Zoe appears to have good upper body strength for this task. A simple obstacle course, stepping over bamboo poles laying flat on the ground would be difficult enough for a novice stilt walker. Making it a race to finish, and you have a challenging visually appealing IC. If they try jousting or tripping each other, it might be all over way too soon. I agree the balance favors women. Kathy has proven her balance ability. I wonder if Zoe's 'sea-legs' would help in stilt walking? Tammy will be despirate to win IC, but so will Zoe. Zoe has just turned on the T/R/J alliance to vote off John, and has (apparently) told Tammy she never liked her. If she thinks T/R and S/V are targeting her, Zoe would be despirate to win this IC. Swami   Top

rivers3 1 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 04-24-02, 10:28 AM (EST) 19. "RE: Speculation on the Nature of EP9 IC" Long time looker first time poster here. I have to comment on the stilts theory being thrown around here. Now, i know it's been a long time since i last walked on stilts, but if i remember correctly the best way to walk on stilts is to have the majority of your weight over top of the stilts. Looking at the pictures, Zoe is clearly back behind the stilts (notice her arms are forward almost extended from her body). Now, someone posted earlier in this thread, a black and white drawing of people walking on stilts. Notice how their body is directly over top, or in the middle between the two poles. this does not seem to be the case with Zoe. Her body is behind the 2 poles and it would seem to me to be very hard for her to walk let alone even stand on the poles using this method. now, we can assume either 2 things: 1. Zoe has no clue how to walk on stilts and does not fair to well in this challenge. or 2. Stilt walking is not what the challenge is. Again, i stress that i am not an expert on stilt walking nor do i play one on T.V.. It's just an observation........So be easy!   Top

DeclaringJihadOnSurvivor 60 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 04-24-02, 10:54 AM (EST) 20. "RE: Speculation on the Nature of EP9 IC" I agree with you..it doesn't really seem like she is standing on stilts. But I am rather clueless to what it could be then. IMH I get an image of somesort of chinese jump rope game using poles to manipulate the ropes (ala the other pole reacting to z). But it's all just speculation..and bad speculation at that..   Top

MatineeIdol 104 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 04-24-02, 10:54 AM (EST) 21. "RE: Speculation on the Nature of EP9 IC" You're right - good observation. I think that if she were on stilts she certainly would have more of a bent arm and her weight would be more centered. Everytime I look at that picture it looks to me as if she were using the poles to grind something or maybe she has just speared something and it manipulating the object. I also think that if she were walking on stilts she would not be looking down so much - I used to have those upside-down bucket with straps attached "stilts" as a kid, and you didn't have to look down at them to walk - as a matter of fact if you did you'd probably fall on your head. I also looked at the jaysea (sp?) thread and the shadow there between Tammy and Pappy definetly looks like the shape of a person removed from the photo.   Top

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