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MakeItStop 1098 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest" 04-12-02, 04:18 PM (EST) "Astrology as Spoilers" For those of you who think Astrology is nonsense, I apologize. But for those of you who find this stuff interesting, check this out. I was just re-reading the Astrology thread on Bashers -- most of the work was done by Outfrontgirl and Frau Hexe. Here's the link: http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID1/961.shtml Now that we've seen these people in action and we've made it to the merge. I think it's time to look at this Astrology stuff again. Why do I think this is important? Because I think it could help us predict their behaviour. Here are a few things that caught my eye. Kathy's Capricorn Decanate: When Caps feel that they're failing repeatedly, they can turn severely negative and pessimistic and insecure (Richard Nixon). Even if trying to act upbeat, an unhappy Cap puts out a big black gloom cloud for all to feel. Right now, Kathy feels like everyone is lying to her. Could this bring out her negative side causing the others to turn against her? Neleh's Pisces Decanate says: Discord is unbearable, and will do their best to shield themselves from unpleasantness. Often must struggle to accentuate positiveness instead of allowing negative feelings to overwhelm. This seems to go along with what Neleh says in the preview. Robert's Gemini/Cancer Cusp: Quick-witted and communicative, and also analytical, cautious, and conservative in approach. When these Geminis give their word, others know they can trust them and do exactly as they say. So if Robert gives his word, he'll keep it. Tammy's Cancer Decanate: People are drawn to the sensitivity of these people and often divulge their secrets to them. Although intense feelings and emotions tend to dominate when making decisions, the intellectual talents here are formidable. Both curious and intuitive, these people are able to gather facts and information from all sources and use them for their benefit. Second decanate Cancers are disciplined and practical in work, sentimental and emotional, and even possessive in relationships. They have a tendency to become too fixed and rigid once they've set their mind. It looks like Tammy has picked the perfect career -- reporter! This sounds so much like her that it makes the last sentence really interesting -- could this be her downfall? Sean: Leo men like to feel they are in charge. They are also very generous, as a rule. They either work really hard or are incredibly indolent in various phases, rather like cats. Most Leos like to act, I mean STAR. They respond well to praise and assume they should win. They are charming, gregarious, and like to instruct people. Do not insult their pride. People are never in doubt about where they stand with him. Outspoken, dislikes secretive people. Again, I just included this because this sounded so Sean. I'd love to hear what OFG and Hexe have to say now.   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: Astrology as Spoilers dangerkitty 04-12-02 1    Link to Updated Thread Frau Hexe 04-14-02 2        RE: Link to Updated Thread George Tirebiter 04-14-02 3  RE: Astrology as Spoilers Outfrontgirl 04-14-02 4    Burnett's birthday Outfrontgirl 04-14-02 5        RE: Burnett's birthday Drive My Car 04-14-02 6  RE: Astrology as Spoilers George Tirebiter 04-18-02 7  RE: Astrology as Spoilers Outfrontgirl 04-18-02 8

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dangerkitty 1913 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 04-12-02, 08:58 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Astrology as Spoilers" LAST EDITED ON 04-12-02 AT 08:59 PM (EST) This is great, MIS! Thanks for doing the work to bring this over here. The fact is, over the last few seasons - especially S3 and now S4 - we have seen the astrology spoiling be very useful in character prediction. Our resident astology experts have described most of these folks pretty darn well, and long before there was any other information to go on. Just looking at what you cited above - we certainly see the accuracy of the Kathy, Neleh and Sean descriptions. As to Tammy and Robert - this is really interesting. We can see some accuracies there, and then there are the suggestions about how they might behave in the future. When Robert gives his word, he keeps it - has he in fact given his word? What qualifies as "his word" to him - an informal "pact" with John and the others might not do it. And Tammy - rigidity and possessiveness are things to watch for, for sure. We haven't been shown much of either of these two players. For those who care to do so, this info can really supplement how we speculate they may behave. Again, thanks to MIS and to OFG and Hexe for all their work. Bashers Board has an even more complete thread, linking to all the current Soliantu tribe members astrology info. edit, cuz its Robert, not Rob   Top

Frau Hexe 716 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 04-14-02, 05:17 AM (EST) 2. "Link to Updated Thread" I'm providing a link here to the Updated Soliantu Astrology Thread, which contains a little bit of new information as well as links to all of the information OFG and I included in the original. Soliantu Astrology Update OFG has posted a rather expert and thorough speculative analysis on the remaining players on this thread, that I think could prove quite valuable in predicting the players' behavior and even staying power throughout the rest of the game. I look forward to seeing what others make of this. We love men. We just don't want to see them naked.~ Two Nice Girls   Top

George Tirebiter 2982 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 04-14-02, 02:53 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Link to Updated Thread" LAST EDITED ON 04-14-02 AT 02:56 PM (EST) Hexe, you beat me to it! I came here to point to your new thread, and for those who don't feel it's worth their time to go to Bashers, to paste in OFG's analysis. With the arguably relaxed "standards" as to what qualifies as spoilers/speculation, I think it's clear that this tack is PROVEN and far more worthwhile than some of the mess posted here lately, and I think it's time the astro made the move to this forum, instead of getting lost in the silliness we partake of on Bashers. Here's OFG's updated analysis: Of the Qualities (or Modes) or action, I find it interesting to look at the fates of the prior loozers. Cardinal Initiators who have bitten the dust, in order of their demise: Peter, Patricia, Hunter, Gabe, Rob. I see a pattern... In some way or another all of these players pushed for a particular direction and preferred to be outspoken over diplomatic. FIVE out of seven boots have been the Iniators! Kathy and Tammy remain. Kathy has never kept her mouth shut at the appropriate time. Only Tammy is smart about letting someone else take the Leadership role. She is clear in her confessionals though, that she's no follower. Fixed Fixed people who are out: Sarah, Gina. These two seemd stuck in their original tribal fate and chose not to fight it hard enough. Gina seemed to fight but she didn't want to rock the boat of having made friendships enough to try to change P-N's vote. Neither of them adapted very well to losing their original greatest allies (Rob and Hunter). Note that Amber was Fixed (Leo), like Sarah and Sean, and seemed totally stuck and unable to act to save herself when she lost Jerri. Sean is the remaining Fixed sign, has now lost his leader Rob, and seems to have carved out a stable role or rut. He has shown a similar tendency to resign himself to his fate in the game. However, If he is offered a firm alliance by John, I see him sticking to it, IMHO--if he can overcome his sense of broken trust with John enough to accept the offer. Mutable All the Adaptors have survived to date. Pisces Zoe has shown her flexible definition of "truth"--a quality shared by SOME Pisces, but certainly not all. Pisces are usually either prone to deception or very honorable. The sign of the Fish shows two Fish--one swimming upstream and one down. Pisces' greatest challenge is whether to go with the easy flow or to adhere to high principles. This is not a slam on Zoe, for certain Zoe admirers *cough* Scribe *cough*. Pisces feel emotional pressure far more acutely than most people, and some see "evasive" tactics as the only means of surviving. If there is one sign that wishes to escape confrontation more than any other, I would have to pick Pisces--in this game, Zoe, Neleh, and Paschal. Looks like all of the Fish are coming to a point where they are forced to either respond to direct accusation (Zoe) or to consider trying to change things. Fish WILL try to change currents in order to escape unpleasantness. According to a fellow astrologer, they will even make pre-emptive strikes to avoid being hurt, and they hurt more easily than any sign. All Water signs are emotionally vulnerable, but the Crab has a protective hard shell, and the Scorpion can hide under a rock and sting. Fish can swim away and camouflage themselves (escapism) or BITE before they become a casualty in the food change. Gemini John and the General, both with birthdays similar to Lex (the General born one day apart from Lex, same year). Geminis are mental, strategizers, less devious than Pisces in that they are pretty much "I am what I am--love it or leave it"--(at least my husband fits that profile). They have dual--Jekyll and Hyde--personalities, so they they may think they are very consistent, but people who live around them know them as at least two different people. Thus, they are very vulnerable to having their personality misrepresented by editing. So far, both Gabe and Rob have said John is a good guy. Same thing happened with Lex. Geminis are generally the life of the party--witty, fun, playful, verbal. They have a dark side though; sarcasm and scathing comments are one way they vent. (Anyone ever notice that sweetheart Lis could be pretty cutting at times?) It's hard NOT to forgive a Gemini for being an ass when they resume their nice Gemini personality. So, a caution to us--don't assume John is as disliked as we are being led to think. Burnett wants us to think he will fail. Sagittarius InVeesible. Sag women differ greatly from Sag men, in that they are capable of being very socially adept and holding their tongue, at least outside of confessionals. (Kim Powers, Colleen) People underestimate their competitive spirit. Sag is the sign of the Archer and aims high. Sag's are very honest, even blunt by nature, but Sag women I have known have learned how to modulate that for their own good. Vee must have considered her pact with John solid, and stuck by it, rather than "betraying" Rob... she would probably say Rob was the one who broke the agreement. As a Mutable, she of all the old Mara showed the only capability of schmoozing and getting close to her new tribe. She very quickly went for trying to change her tribal identity by mingling, as did Kim P. Vee and Kim P both have either Gemini or Cancer moons. I decided Kim P had to have a Cancer Moon when she showed that she was a cryer (Water Moon). Vee seems to resist getting pulled into "drama" and to be "always plotting"--so maybe she has a Gemini moon. Qualities in prior winners Of the Final Two: Tina (Capricorn), Colby (Aries), Richard Hatch (Aries), Kelly W. (Cancer, like Tammy) are all Cardinal signs. Ethan is Fixed and MamaKim Mutable (Virgo). So in both the first games, the Cardinals swept the finals, yet here they have been mostly eliminated (it's a miracle Kathy's still in it). Of the Final 3 and 4: Lex and Elisabeth were Mutable, Geminis. Soozin (Leo), Tom (Scorpio), and Keith (Aquarius) were Fixed. Rudy was Cardinal (Capricorn)/ cusp Aquarius (Fixed). Sag women--Colleen and Kim Powers, were last or second to last of their losing tribes, and Mutable Lis had that honor in S2. That makes it look good for Vee to finish in the Final 6 or higher. Looks like the Fixed signs have generally made good people to bring along, but it wasn't because they led the alliance. Keith and Sue were brought along as the "unlikeable ally." That is the only position still open to Sean... If there is a pattern, Cardinal Tammy is the strongest player left right now, IMO. She is probably the real leader of the Rotu 4, as Tina was of Ogakor--although she does not, as of yet, seem to have a partner like Colby who will give it up for her; she knows she has to win it with her own strength, and will possibly pull a Kelly (fellow Cancer)--and make an immunity run. The question is, will anyone still like her if she makes it the Final 2, or will she end up like Kelly, having tried to make friends with too many people and so ulitmately doubted by all? To date, I don't believe you astro "experts" have missed the mark on ANY of the Loozers, so I think it's worthwhile to consider the remaining players by integrating this analysis with whatever SeeBS deigns to give us in the way of "concrete" clues. GT Nothing is as terrible to see as ignorance in action. -Goethe  Edited because italics seemed more pleasant to read through than four tons of BOLD.   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-14-02, 03:18 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Astrology as Spoilers" LAST EDITED ON 04-14-02 AT 03:21 PM (EST) Thanks MIS, Hexe, DK! Edit: I got this up and found GT had pasted in the post I did on Bashers. Thanks GT! I don't know about "proven" but I do know this stuff helps me see past the editing and obfuscation. I'd also like to update the Elements mix. This season of Survivor is unique astrologically in that Burnett went with so many Water signs, SIX (3 Pisces and 3 Cancers) out of the 16. Rotu Water signs are all about emotional bonds, and the Rotu tribe had 5 out of 8 Water signs. The Love Tribe is born. In addition, Rotu had 2 thinker-schemers in Air (John and Robert), who were biding their time to make a move. They had No Fire signs (strong leadership) and 1 poor lonely Earth person--Kathy. Earth is practical and Capricorn rules management: Kathy was obsessed with the Fire, water, shelter, and food! The Rotu ended up as a tribe of worker bees--who made that happen? Kathy the Capricorn, IMO. Over at Mara Fire signs like to act as individuals, and Mara had FOUR--Patricia, Vee, Sean, and Sarah. Mara never came together as a team, but the voting was controlled by a Capricorn, Rob. (Tina was a Capricorn; Dicque has a Cap Moon). Hunter (Cancer like Gabe) was their lone Water person, trying to make a team. Gina was the lone Air person. They were astro orphans on the "drama" team with the Capricorn puppetmaster. the Swap Two of the Pisces go to Mara, which changes to 2 Water/1 Air/1 Earth--a mini-Rotu make-up. Suddenly Mara is the Love Tribe. Rotu kicks out a Cancer (water) Gabe. Now the Rotu 4 alliance is comprised of 2 Air and 2 Water, still relationship oriented. vs. Earth Rob, and Fiery Sean and Vee--all out for themselves as individuals. The Love Tribe is so over, and the two factions shape up as Water/Air vs. Earth/Fire. Merge Big surprise, the two Capricorns volunteer to represent their tribes! The Water people hate confrontation, especially the Pisces (Zoe, Paschal, Neleh). (Vee must have her Moon in Cancer (it's either Gemini or Cancer); she is bonding with Cancerian Tammy.) One more Earth person hits the road (leaving Kathy alone in her element again). Sean and Vee represent the surviving Fire signs and Mara. Paschal and Neleh WANT to return to the emotional bonds the Love Tribe formed, but it's not going to happen. John and Robert, so astrologically similar to Lex it's scary--are the only Airy Thinkers left (yeah, I know The General doesn't seem like a huge brain, but I guarantee there are thoughts buzzing around in there). Will their ability to manipulate get them to Final 4? In S3, Airy Lex put together the core alliance. He took two Scorpios (Water)--Ethan and Tom. Although Scorpio paranoia ran rampant, the combo of a Gemini running the loyal Water people held together to the end. The Rotu 4 has a very similar dynamic. However, Tammy has (most likely) a Fiery competitive Aries Moon, as did Tina. That means she is first and foremost playing for herself, as she's said in confessionals. Of all the Water people, she's the one who seems not to buy into the Family dynamic, except as she sees it working in her interest. Whatever may be her inner attitude, Cancer Tammy is playing the Family angle for all it's worth. In sum Air signs (John/Robert) can manipulate because they are emotionally detached--and Geminis LOVE games. Fire signs (Sean/Vee) are all about individual egos, even if Vee pretends it's not so. The Water signs (Tammy/Zoe/Paschal/Neleh) are all caught up and conflicted by emotions and loyalty in a cutthroat game. The Earth person (Kathy) is insecure and freaked out and isolated--can't get grounded. OK, all for now... Astro-correspondent OFG signing out...   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-14-02, 03:47 PM (EST) 5. "Burnett's birthday" FYI, according to the bio info someone gave me, Burnett is a Cancer. Among other things, Cancer rules family, patriotism/the Flag, attachment to Mom/mothering, the military, nurturing/providing, security (must have a stash of food and money to feel secure), respect for traditions and elders, loyalty, real estate and home. Most Cancerians have a great, loony (ruled by Luna, the Moon) sense of humor. More comedians are Cancers than any other sign. *waves at Shakes and Ebug* I find it fascinating that a Cancer has made a franchise out of a show that deprives people of food and forces them to form close bonds and then turn on each other in order to win money. Survivor is the epitome of surviving a Cancerian's worst nightmares. Interesting that S4 started out with the tribes being "led" towards teamwork by 2 Cancers, Hunter and Gabe. Survivor Cancerians: S1 Kelly, Jenna S2 Rodger S3 Frank S4 Tammy, Hunter, Gabe   Top

Drive My Car 20045 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-14-02, 09:06 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Burnett's birthday" *waves at Shakes and Ebug* You remembered! I want to say I don't get all of this, but I have been reading these thresds, both here and on the Basher forum. I think there is tons of great insight into the personalities. I also want to say a big thankful for all the work that goes into this. Interesting that Burnett is a Cancer. Survivor is the epitome of surviving a Cancerian's worst nightmares. That's were the loony sense of humor comes in.   Top

George Tirebiter 2982 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 04-18-02, 04:28 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Astrology as Spoilers" Giving this a skier <BUMP> in a last-ditch effort to figure out this week's boot. . . Off all the things said so far, one jumps out at me--OFG's statement that Pisces Zoe and her malleable "truth" could be expected to dislike confrontation and so try to change it or swim around it. GT   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-18-02, 05:30 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Astrology as Spoilers" Since people are debating John tonight, I am re-posting what I wrote about John on 3/3--after Episode One. Keep in mind that there was not much to see at that point; he hadn't even been injured yet, and had only really interacted with Kathy on screen, so I was really projecting. My conclusion then was that his temper and lack of impulse control and ego were going to come back to haunt him. I left the post alone (except one typo) and just bolded some things I think became more pertinent and may come to a head soon if not tonight. -------------------------------------------- Outfrontgirl 1789 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-03-02, 03:34 AM (EST) 50. "RE: John's temper" Well, aside from the excellent info already posted, we don't have to blame the Irish in John to find some temper in his make-up. Sun/Mercury Square Mors Like Lex and Robert de Canio. John is a Gemini with Mars, Uranus, and Pluto in Virgo; like them, his Gemini Mercury is square the Virgo Mars. John actually has Sun/Mercury conjunct in Gemini dead square to Virgo Mars, and what does that mean? First the Sun and Mercury together make for someone whose ideas are so close to his ego he's not real objective. He loves to talk and discuss, but might not listen too well. Plus all Geminis love to talk. Yes, he's a nurse, but he has Venus in Cancer, more on that later. Mars in Virgo has a perfectionistic streak, a desire to assert oneself by being helpful, including being critical (yes, Virgo criticism is meant to HELP others, in general). It brings a self-critical streak; we could see John analyzing his actions and regretting them. But the square of Sun with Mars is a hard aspect. There's a tension around the desire to get things done. While struggling to work hard and gain recognition, the person may vent impulsively, recklessly, aggressively. A tendency to be irritable, flare up and react more sharply than intended. Always spoiling for a fight, and others sense this. Accident prone due tp acting impulsively. Add to that the Sun square Mercury we saw in Lex and that Robert shares: The person's conversation comes off as very alert and subtle, but also sharp and aggressive, and can arouse antagonism. It's hard for him to exercise restraint during discussions, and when attacked he easily loses temper. The person performs best under pressure and when working hard, but has a hard time switching off--and "chilling." SAG MOON Also, John almost certainly has his moon in fiery Sag. Traditional Sag fields are the church, teaching, and law--I think John has hit them all. Sag is traditionally tactless (Vee is a Sag and we've had a taste of her sharp tongue already), but the moon Sag is shyer. Sensitive to any disharmony in atmosphere. Over-reacts to people who show hostility; tongue sharp and articulate, temper explosive. Like most fire signs, tends not to hold a grudge and prefers to forget bad feelings and look forward with optimism. Positive qualities--athletic, initiative, traveler, never bored, can't stand being cooped up. Becomes bored spending every day in the same company (uh-oh). Adaptable, broad-minded, not racist or bigoted, resourceful, problem solver, will lend a helping hand, to the point of pushing others out of the way in order to sort the problem out yourself. Well, I see a LOT of John's interaction with Kathy in all this. Venus in Cancer Now, what about John's nurturing side? Venus in Cancer. Needs to be recognized for his sensitivity and nurturing. Needs a safe, nurturing, sheltered space and a sense of being with family. Prefers to share energy with others in a close-knit group. He may be moody, feel vulnerable, crawl into an emotional shell at times. In Sum John is very complex, and these are only some of the aspects. Jupiter in Gemini Square Uranus/Pluto conjunction in Virgo too (one book says this Uranus/Pluto conjunction brought about punk as an attitude, style, movement.) John is a taboo breaker, full of tension, and also a crusader (Jupiter in the square). Nothing about John seems lightweight. He should seem very outgoing and rational but actually has difficulty with temper and impulse control. He's a communicator but perhaps too attached to his own opinions. He values his rep as a nurturer yet admits he has a temper. He's definitely got a prickly side that might surprise people. He second-guesses himself. He likes to work hard but part of him abhors routine and sameness. He likes to explore and be alone, but he needs to feel safe in a group. For sure he will want an alliance! Unlike Ethan and Tom (Scorpios), and like Lex, he ought to be capable of moving on after blow-ups. Lastly, Gemini, the twins, always shows a dual nature. Even sweet Elisabeth could be pretty sarcastic... (Have we seen a pig? I haven't seen a pig) Most Geminis have a great deal of charm when they choose to turn it on. Marilyn Monroe was a Gemini, as was JFK. John may not hold a grudge once he has addressed his problems with someone, but I can't necessarily say the same of his watery tribe members or Kathy the Capricorn. I expect John and Robert to be the alpha male candidates of Rotu. I'm really interested in seeing whether they will become friends because they have big aspects in common. Most Geminis tend to make friends with other Geminis. However, they are in a stressful situation and have very different backgrounds. Depends on if they can handle being around a doppleganger... with tatoos even... "the fascination of what's difficult..."--W.B. Yeats   Top

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