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"Emerging Themes: Power Can Only Be Granted--But by Whom?"
Frau Hexe 716 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
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04-01-02, 00:51 AM (EST)
 
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"Emerging Themes: Power Can Only Be Granted--But by Whom?" |
LAST EDITED ON 04-01-02 AT 02:11 AM (EST)Although elements of this topic have been discussed in numerous threads, I thought it might be time to gather some of the major thoughts that have been simmering here for awhile along with some of my own and apply them to some of the major themes of Survivor Marquesas. I’m hoping this will prompt some compelling discussion. In the Eye-mail before Episode 3, the clue, “Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown” was offered as not only a teaser, but also as a sort of theme for the episode. We later learned that this applied directly to Hunter, but this seems to be slowly emerging as a theme for far more in this game than merely that one episode. If we look at the nature of the “leaders” this season—both self-proclaimed and natural—we see this similar theme of trouble and unrest within leadership roles. We are seeing an enormous emphasis on leadership this season, specifically male leadership, far more so than we have in previous seasons. That is not to say leadership has not been an important factor in previous seasons, but it hasn’t been talked about this much in past seasons. This might lead us to assume that whomever ultimately attains the role of alpha male or “male leader” will either win the game or make it to the final two. There has been both direct mention of the term “alpha male” by Sean, and indirect mention by Hunter, Rob, and now John. All of these men are striving or have striven to become the alpha male in their tribes. So far, each of these men, including John, have met with resistance to their self-proclaimed leadership. In Hunter’s case, it resulted in his boot. In Sean and Rob’s case it has resulted in, if nothing else, a good deal of conflict, not to mention some resentment from other tribe members. Gabe’s boot was a direct result of his unspoken leadership threatening John’s emerging alpha male status. In her post on alpha males after the first episode premiered, Nightscribe quoted from Burnett’s book Survivor, wherein he discusses the alpha male role as applied to Joel and B.B. from Pagong. For the sake of reference, I’ll post it again here: “But Joel (insert Rob, Sean, Hunter, John, etc. here) was so wrapped up in achieving alpha male status that he wasn’t paying attention to the slowly-emerging rules of ‘Survivor.’ Being alpha male wasn’t necessarily a good thing. Power made someone a threat. Any threat had to be dealt with.” This comes from a chapter entitled “Power Can Only Be Granted.” Now obviously some of this might not directly apply to the current season, but I think much of it can apply fairly directly. Those immediately assuming authoritative roles are not looked upon kindly by the rest. The moment they step forward and call themselves “leaders” they set themselves apart from the rest of their tribe members, and thus alienate themselves from them in some way as well. In last episode’s tribal council, we saw John proclaim himself leader of Rotu. Directly after that, we were shown the reactions of Tammy and Zoë—both of whom smirked after this revelation. Were these knowing smirks? I’m not sure we can jump to those conclusions yet, but they definitely raised question to whether or not Tammy and Zoë believe John to be the true leader of Rotu. One of the latest promos for next week’s episode asks the question, “Can there be two leaders?” We can usually assume when a question of this nature is posed that the answer is a resounding, “No.” However, must we then deduce that the leader will be one of these two men? Or could that leader emerge from a far less likely source? If we look at how the women this season have been edited, we can see that they are either depicted as sluts (Sarah), sweethearts (Neleh, Gina), control-freaks (Kathy, Patricia), supporters of the males (Vee), or virtually complete non-entities (Tammy, Zoë). We can be fairly certain that the sluts, sweethearts, control-freaks, and silent-supporters will not win the game—they aren’t edited to do so—but the non-entities are questionable. So far, to their tribemates, they seem to pose no more than perhaps a physical threat to the alpha males—and even that is questionable. But there must be a reason we have seen so little of women like Tammy and Zoë who are both very strong women in their own ways. Both of these women have shown themselves in less obvious leadership roles. Tammy told John that she would basically “kick his ass” if he were to stab her in the back. Zoë has subtly taken charge in a number of challenges, motivating her tribemates, being the first to congratulate them on a success, and most recently leading the new Rotus in their failed SOS challenge. We’ve seen so little of these women on the show, but Burnett has provided us with plenty of information to let us know they are forces to be reckoned with (Tammy’s a tough crime reporter, obviously a strong woman who thinks for herself; Zoë’s the captain of her own lobster vessel, in charge of plenty of men, a single mother). Yet, they don’t fit into the struggle for the position of alpha male. This is why they have received so little face time. Mark Burnett is very, very fond of irony—each season has been filled with an abundance of ironic twists. One classic example last season was Silas’ "Just write me the check” speech. This season, we’ve been given plenty of examples, i.e. both tribes talking about how great things are going directly before the swap; Rob stating directly before the twist “I have total control of this game;” I also have a sneaking suspicion that the whole “Robfather” theme will soon be yet another illustration of MB’s fondness for irony. Because Burnett is so overzealous about shoving irony down our throats, I’m beginning to think that perhaps this season’s theme, along with “Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown,” will be the greatest ironic twist of them all: The struggle for alpha male status will be for naught, and a woman or women will emerge as the true unspoken leaders of this game. The chapter in MB’s book that I pulled the quote from—“Power Can Only Be Granted”—speaks to this very concept. Who are these alpha males trusting to support their decisions? Who are they talking to (besides themselves) when it comes to decision-making? The women are seen as safe confidantes here, but my guess is the tables will turn, and soon, these men will find themselves overpowered by some less-than-visible XX chromosome leaders. How can this happen, though, if they’re still following the men’s lead? The answer may well be in Rob’s strategy. Rob has said that his strategy lies in sitting back until the men who claim they are in control falter, and then he makes his move. And he has a point, in that the men who are actively fighting for alpha male status are very eager and impatient about doing so, and therefore make sometimes fatal mistakes in the process. However, Rob is included in this struggle, this clamoring for a leadership role. They are so impassioned about taking these roles that they are opening themselves up to something much stronger: patience. Women like Tammy and Zoë have exhibited a great deal of patience with these men—they would have to be patient in order to remain so silent and seemingly neutral about all of the goings-on with the males in their tribe. While the men cannibalize themselves, the women are afforded the time to sit back and silently assume power. The interesting thing about most women is, they’re often willing to share that power, which can prove fatal in a game like this where there is true power in numbers.
We love men. We just don't want to see them naked.~ Two Nice Girls
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Mitrelleum 257 desperate attention whore postings
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04-01-02, 03:43 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: Emerging Themes: Power Can Only Be Granted--But by Whom?" |
I agree 100% with your theory, but let's not discount Robert yet. He seems just as patient and resilient as Tammy and Zoe.
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PepeLePew13 26134 desperate attention whore postings
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04-01-02, 07:49 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: Emerging Themes: Power Can Only Be Granted--But by Whom?" |
Excellent thinking, Fraulein... This has given me a new look at the game. Rob's strategy is to let the men who claim to be in control falter and then he makes his move... well isn't he seeking control himself (we saw that in getting Sean and Vee to jump over with him against Hunter) and being set up to fail, too? It makes much more sense now that we didn't hear any significant words from Tammy while Rob and Sean were mouthing off and being served on the beach in Ep4. I remember thinking back then that there had to be something more from Tammy on that situation than the very few words she uttered. This ties in with your statement: >Women like Tammy and Zoë have exhibited a great deal of patience
>with these men?they would have to be patient in order to remain
>so silent and seemingly neutral about all of the goings-on with
>the males in their tribe. While the men cannibalize themselves,
>the women are afforded the time to sit back and silently assume
>power. I think we may be seeing a show where the men fight and trip over themselves to carry the merged tribe to the final 4 or 5, then the women such as Tammy and Zoe swoop in to win it all.  
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NightScribe 761 desperate attention whore postings
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04-01-02, 10:31 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: Emerging Themes: Power Can Only Be Granted--But by Whom?" |
LAST EDITED ON 04-01-02 AT 03:17 PM (EST)I think we may be seeing a show where the men fight and trip over themselves to carry the merged tribe to the final 4 or 5, then the women such as Tammy and Zoe swoop in to win it all. Agreed 100% Pepe. This is exactly what is happening. When I first began thinking of the absence of an Alpha Male on Rotu, it occurred to me that one or two would try, but fail to win the role. Now Gabe is gone and John's role is precarious (even though he thinks he's undisputed). I think this also ties in nicely with the Godfather overtones of power and control. Nice Analysis Hexe. 
edited to fix italics
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Frau Hexe 716 desperate attention whore postings
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04-01-02, 02:03 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Emerging Themes: Power Can Only Be Granted--But by Whom?" |
well isn't he seeking control himself (we saw that in getting Sean and Vee to jump over with him against Hunter) and being set up to fail, too?That's exactly what I think, Pepe. Despite his "patience" in his own strategy, I'm convinced he's still too power hungry to not fail in some way eventually. His failure may well have been in not voting for someone like John this past episode, or it may come in some other form later, but he's definitely setting himself up for failure, and the editing would indicate this as well. It makes much more sense now that we didn't hear any significant words from Tammy while Rob and Sean were mouthing off and being served on the beach in Ep4. I remember thinking back then that there had to be something more from Tammy on that situation than the very few words she uttered. Exactly. There was far more behind what she was doing. Her body language and tone in the few words she did say were pretty indicative of something far beyond simply serving her new tribemates food. Most strong, intelligent women like Tammy know that if men like Rob and Sean see them in a serving role, they (the women) won't be seen as a threat. It would not surprise me at all if she was using this tactic to let them assume she has no intention of taking the leadership role away from any of the men out there. We love men. We just don't want to see them naked.~ Two Nice Girls
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Frau Hexe 716 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
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04-03-02, 11:45 AM (EST)
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14. "RE: Emerging Themes: Power Can Only Be Granted--But by Whom?" |
But may I ask why you wouldn't choose to put Vee in the same 'strong woman' grouping as Zoe and Tammy? Your only mention was of her was as a 'supporter of men,' but I think that overlooks, or diminishes, her strategy. I think your argument holds with Vee included. She too is patient, and in her own way would seem to be 'a force to be reckoned with.' I think the three women may actually be quite similar...The problem with including Vee in this theory is that Vee is not being edited the same way as Tammy and Zoe are. I'm sure Vee is a strong woman, and we've seen a tiny bit of that, but ultimately, she is edited as Sean and Rob's extra vote, not someone who is going to think on her own for any length of time. Unlike Tammy and Zoe, Vee's story is being told, albeit through Rob and Sean much of the time--but she is visible, and thus doesn't quite fit into this. We love men. We just don't want to see them naked.~ Two Nice Girls
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George Tirebiter 2982 desperate attention whore postings
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04-02-02, 02:04 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Emerging Themes: Power Can Only Be Granted--But by Whom?" |
I really can't picture Paschal as fitting in any kind of "winner" role--he sucks at the physical challenges, we've seen nothing to indicate he's especially sharp on the rest--he's basically attached himself to the ditzy Mormon girl and declared himself content to be the only male in a tribe of good-looking wimmen. . .I can't see how or why he could be suddenly edited to be more than a Rodger (a much less "savory" version, yet!)As for Vee, I agree with NS--her "strategy" has been to ally herself with the worst possible people, then lay low and hope she's not noticed. To my eye, she had a lot going for herself going into this, but she loses it more with every episode. "Avoiding the drama" only goes so far in the end. At least Tammy and (especially) Zoe have managed to do so while still forging POSITIVE relationships with people and doing their share of the work (in camp AND challenges.) I haven't seen Vee do much but complain about how Rotu doesn't know when to "chill," à la Sean. . . and her status as old Maru will surely bite her in the end. I will admit Robert has been a surprise to me--I expected to hate him the most from the start, but he's been nothing but a good sport and hard worker--but I was glad to hear Scribe espousing the female dominance in the end, as it validated my own feelings. Burn-it DOES love irony, and what could be more of an upset than a F2 with NO men? GT
Choose your friends carefully.-Y. Arafat
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Spidey 6259 desperate attention whore postings
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04-02-02, 07:42 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Emerging Themes: Power Can Only Be Granted--But by Whom?" |
>As for Vee, I agree with
>NS--her "strategy" has been to
>ally herself with the worst
>possible people, then lay low
>and hope she's not noticed.
>To my eye, she had
>a lot going for herself
>going into this, but she
>loses it more with every
>episode. "Avoiding the drama" only
>goes so far in the
>end. At least Tammy and
>(especially) Zoe have managed to
>do so while still forging
>POSITIVE relationships with people and
>doing their share of the
>work (in camp AND challenges.)
>I haven't seen Vee do
>much but complain about how
>Rotu doesn't know when to
>"chill," à la Sean. .
>. and her status as
>old Maru will surely bite
>her in the end.
>
I think we might be underestimating Vee. Although I don't think she wins, I think she may go quite far. She was stuck with a tribe of losers and made some poor early choices (Booting Hunter), but I think she has done a lot to distance herself from Rob/Sean. She is always shown participating with the Rotu members and is in the middle of the pack approaching most challenges. I think she has fit well into New Rotu. Rob and Sean (barring immunity) should go before her, likely Kathy too. Also, due to the booting of several men early, the women should be at least equal to the men come merge time. She could conceivably make the final 5 or 6, or even better if we finally do see an all-female alliance. She could also be a powerful swing vote in several scenarios throughout the next few weeks. Then again, she could also go soon after the merge, but I think it is way too early to count her out.
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red 140 desperate attention whore postings
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04-02-02, 08:28 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Emerging Themes: Power Can Only Be Granted--But by Whom?" |
I'm not even sure aligning with Rob and Sean was in and of itself such a bad idea. She seems to be biding her time, feeling out the politics and riding the winning horse. That was the winning horse at Maaraamu. Well, if you pre-suppose she has Sean's vote (much like Rob so crassly said about him having Sarah's vote) the options were for her and Sean to go with Hunter/Gina or Rob/Sarah. From a purely winning perspective, you might want to ally with the least likable people - and to shoot off Sean's vote would have been plain stupid.Now, as far as I can tell, she IS trying to form bonds at Rotu. Once again, her approach may be to feel things out and try to jump on the winning horse - yet she's not burning any bridges with Sean or Rob yet. And she may not have the opportunities to ally with the winners at this point, but I'm not sure that's her fault. Personally, I think the mistake that cost Maraamu the game (if they do lose) was booting Peter over Sarah. An early Sarah boot, and they might have actually won one of the earlier challenges.
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Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings
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04-02-02, 10:04 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Emerging Themes: Power Can Only Be Granted--But by Whom?" |
I think Robert is more likely to last longer than John in their 4-person alliance. Robert is under the radar much more than John. John is out there making himself a target. But Robert is just acting like the loyal sidekick. Much like Ethan did with Lex.
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JohnMc 2679 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson"
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04-02-02, 07:05 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Emerging Themes: Power Can Only Be Granted--But by Whom?" |
<We are seeing an enormous emphasis on leadership this season, specifically male leadership, far more so than we have in previous seasons.>I think this has happened more this season because of Rob and Sean. Both of them landed in Hunter's tribe, and from day 1 it has been a struggle for Alpha status. Once they finally get their way, they get booted to a new tribe and have to start all over again. This is the first season where the women may be in the majority at the merge. In the first 2 seasons, it was even 5/5 men women, and 5/5 among the tribe. In S3, it was a 6/4 split w/more men because they chose to vote off the women. (S3 also ended up w/3 men in the F4.) The current scenario allows for the women to vote off Sean and Rob and even John at the merge. Their strength is no longer required. Paschal can last longer now because he isn't a physical threat, and because he is mature he knows how to treat women w/respect, thus not an emotional threat. If this was Rob's strategy, it is backfiring BIG TIME.
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George Tirebiter 2982 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-02, 12:02 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: Emerging Themes: Power Can Only Be Granted--But by Whom?" |
Bumping this thread because it's somehow gotten buried by an insane number of garbage posts. THIS one has some important concepts to bear in mind as the merge takes place!I think it's obvious now that John's great F4 alliance is doomed. Even Robert has stated in a confessional that he's glad to let John paint that leader's target on his tush for the time being. Tammy was not thrilled to throw the IC challenge (even though it was in EVERYONE's best interest to boot Rob now) and I predict she will be the first to turn on John--with or without Zoe. First things first, however. The New Maras are coming, and I hope to hell everyone realizes who NEEDS to go first--Gina has clued in her new tribe and they know R/S/V are not to be trusted, they know that their old tribe chose to boot Gabe and so the old Rotu loyalties are suspect, and it's going to be very interesting to see everyone jockey into position. The extra bodies are going to determine where the advantage lies next week--but after that, I suspect things are going to heat up within old Rotu. I can't see that Kathy will survive even a women's alliance, but I'm still not sure if Vee will succeed in forging something to save her own arse. And will these men manage to do each other in so completely that it really will boil down to a gender advantage? or will Robert continue to surprise us? Most of all, can this really boil down to something so simple, or will that damned Burn-it manage to throw some off-the-wall wrench in the works and blast my so-called logic out of the water again? The "Patience" factor seems so compelling to me, there must be something wrong with it. . .  GT
Society attacks early when the individual is helpless.B.F.Skinner
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NightScribe 761 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"
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04-19-02, 01:20 PM (EST)
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16. "And so it goes" |
A big ole bump for a thread that needs revisiting.I must say I'm impressed by Frau's analysis, and am very pleased to see much of it playing out just as you predicted. I've been thinking about this theory ever since you posted it, and I even used it to correctly pick the last two bootees. I will continue to do so. This especially caught my attention: Because Burnett is so overzealous about shoving irony down our throats, I’m beginning to think that perhaps this season’s theme, along with “Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown,” will be the greatest ironic twist of them all: The struggle for alpha male status will be for naught, and a woman or women will emerge as the true unspoken leaders of this game. The chapter in MB’s book that I pulled the quote from—“Power Can Only Be Granted”—speaks to this very concept. Who are these alpha males trusting to support their decisions? Who are they talking to (besides themselves) when it comes to decision-making? The women are seen as safe confidantes here, but my guess is the tables will turn, and soon, these men will find themselves overpowered by some less-than-visible XX chromosome leaders. Absolutely! We're down to 8 players and 5 are women. The power struggle to off the Alpha males is leaving the women in a very good position. While we did group Tammy and Zoe together in this, it's clear this relates more to Vee, Kathy, Neleh, and Zoe, but not Tammy. She got arrogant and overconfident, forgot to sit back and observe what was going on around her. If she had, she would have seen that there was a surging counter-alliance from the quite corners. Her cockiness at the IC put her in contention for an "Alpha male targeting", or as Kathy put it "voting off the power". Zoe, on the other hand, bided her time with the Rotu 4, but made her break when the time was right. Her vote was very smart indeed because Vee will know her vote (J.C) wasn't shown (indicating someone from Rotu 4 voted against John) and she will relay that information to the others. They will know Zoe defected. and this is the kicker for me:
While the men cannibalize themselves, the women are afforded the time to sit back and silently assume power. And so they are!! I'm predicting a female final two baby!!!!!! Very good analysis FH.
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janisella 698 desperate attention whore postings
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04-23-02, 11:18 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: And so it goes" |
First of all, I want to bump this thread. It's much more interesting than the other stuff on page 1.Looking at this group of people, I don't see the men or the women teaming up with each other. The women, however, seem to be stronger people overall. This may be the Survivor Burnett's been waiting for where the alliances constantly change and the outcome isn't easily predicted. I'm wondering why people think Sean is safe this week. Pascal finds him an embarrassment and I don't think anyone else sees a need to keep him around. As much as people might think he'd be a good rival in the final 2, do they want to listen to him for 15 more days? My guess is no. I think Pascal will be gone before too long, because nobody wants to be against Grandpa in the final 2. Robert may get pretty far by staying under the radar, but who would want to go against a nice, quiet guy that hasn't cheesed anyone off in the final 2? If my thinking is sound, MB is leading us to an all female final 3. I also think that Kathy will be in the final 3, because after Sean, she would be the choice to go against in the final 2. At any rate, this thing is finally a real game and it should be fun to guess what stories MB is or isn't telling.
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Kokoro 3899 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge"
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04-24-02, 00:38 AM (EST)
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19. "RE: And so it goes" |
<<I'm wondering why people think Sean is safe this week.>>The only solid reason for people thinking Sean is safe at least until the final 6 because of the SNews.net spoiler. Read all about it in this thresd. ----------------------------------------
Now let us never speak of S3 again. Kathy: Paschal, they're going to vote us off one by one. Paschal: So?  
Stop Discrimination Now
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