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NightScribe 761 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 03-19-02, 01:07 PM (EST) "Editing, Character Development, etc." I thought it would be productive to begin a discussion about the story that is being told to us by MB. I don't know if this will help us select the bootee this week, but it's worthwhile to dissect this in one thread. Why? Because Burnett has always maintained that Survivor is formulaic. The location changes, and a few twists are thrown in, but basically he is telling us the same story over and over. We have determined some of the ingredients to his formula. Now let's see if we can figure out what's going on based on Burnett's story telling. 1. MB loves irony: First of all, we all know what a sick sense of humor MB has, and it is obvious he loves to show people falling on their faces. If someone utters "I'm gonna win this thing; just write out the check to me; I'm making it to the final four" etc.. it's usually bad news for the person who said it. Exceptions apply (as in all cases) such as Rich in Ep.1 of S1. Of course, it was safe to air that because no one at the time, including Burnett himself, thought Rich could possibly win. Same thing with last episode. Even though the previews screamed "HUNTER", few of us thought Maraamu was idiotic enough to boot their strongest member. Again, this is irony, and it makes for good T.V. 2. Failed strategies: We also have deduced that successful strategies are hidden while failed ones are shown. One of the problems of S3 was that MB broke this formula by showing the E/L/T alliance, and then spent the last half of the season desperately trying to convince us this alliance would not hold. But we all knew it was bunk. Rob's "Godfather" strategy was aired last week. I am guessing this means it doesn't succeed. 3. Face time factor: People/Tribes that last longer in the game often get less face time in the beginning. So far, there has been a heavy emphasis on the "Lost Tribe" and very little on the "Love Tribe". So far we've only gotten to know a little bit about Gabe, Kathy, Robert, and John, while Zoe, Tammy, Neleh, and Paschal have been virtually non-entities. Zoe especially, for she has only had two confessionals (not very long or important ones either) and almost no face time. Rotu isn't getting face time because there will be plenty of time later to get to know them as the number of Moo's dwindles. 4. Alpha Male Role: MB strives to cast competitive, athletic, charasmatic males that will ultimately compete for the Alpha Male role. The male that wins this struggle always goes to the final four: Richard, Colby, and Lex. Of course, the Alpha Male also has to be in a dominant alliance/dominat tribe. Alpha male's who make it to the merge with a weaker tribe are almost always voted out early. Think Greg (S1), Frank (S3). Depending upon how Maraamu fairs in the rest of the game, (and let's face it, one more IC loss, and they're going to be just a memory) I'd say that Rob is looking at a maximum life span of "just after the merge". 5. Redemption of characters: We've seen this time and again; just before someone "generally disliked" is voted out, there is an effort to redeem them somehow. Jerri had her moment in S2, Frank had his in S3, etc.. Last week Jiffy's intro at the beginning of the episode stated "Kathy redeems herself to her tribe by finding food". This shocked me to no end. I mean, when did that happen? I recall her tribe being annoyed with her, but not once did I see her redeeming her self to them. Then KO comes to the rescue when John is stung. Gabe, her no. 1 critic even likes her all of a sudden. This smells like character redemption to me. 6. Red herrings: Some are easier to spot than others, but they are always there trying to throw us off. Last week, there was evidence of injuries at Rotu -- this was a red herring. Yes, they were being injured, but it didn't effect their performance in challenges. There are always at least two bootee options shown after the IC. One is the correct bootee, while the other is the red herring. 7. Entertainment factor: This kind of an addendum to the "face time factor" because MB will show us scenes that are entertaining, but not necessarily integral to plot line. I thought Clarence's encounter with the chickens last season was the most hilarious thing ever, but not integral to character development or story telling. This is also why we saw so much of Jeff Varner -- NOT because he was a power player, but he was funny, entertaining -- like Sean. Sean is only a major player because he's so controversial, not because he's a force to be reckoned with. 8. Episode titles = Chapters: Each episode is a story unto itself, but tells a piece of the larger story. As much as some of us have tried to dig deeper into the meaning of episode titles **coughcoughMEcoughcough**, the titles are usually pretty straight forward, indicating the main theme of that episode. "Nacho Mamma" indicated a problem with pushy women/mom types. "No Pain, No Gain" referred to Rotu's injuries and challenge wins. Pretty easy, right? Let's not read too much into these. There are plenty of thoughts already posted on "The Winds Twist", so I won't reiterate them here, but rather skip to "The End of Innocence". The simple story being told in episode five is that the tribe that was innocent will no longer be so, and finally go to Tribal council. No one on Maraamu is innocent as far as I can see. Taking these patterns, or formulas into account, what story is being told to us? First of all, Maraamu is getting tons of face time now because they are 1) controversial (hence entertaining) 2) on the verge of extinction. We aren't seeing much of Rotu because their story will be revealed later. The only strategy that has been revealed thus far is Rob's Godfather "make them obey" strategy. My hunch is that because it was aired, it won't work. Rob may have deposed Hunter as Alpha Male, but seeing as he is on the far weaker tribe, his life span in the game is short. Over on Rotu, Kathy's image was suddenly redeemed last episode. Her time is coming to an end. John stated "If I can catch a pig, then I can set my table at the final four". This is either a red herring, or a clue. I'm not ready to say which yet. Now, when I bounce the story being told to us against some spoiler stuff (OFG theory and Eyemail theory), I come up with the following. Maraamu goes to TC again this week because next week Rotu will go, ending their innocence. From Rotu, Gina, Sean, Rob, and Vee are all shown in the previews, but only Sean and Sarah have had CBS eyemail profiles done. This would indicate either of those two takes the loser stroll. The "Gina fights for her life" stuff is a red herring! It's what everyone is expecting. Don't believe it. Based on editing, whose story has yet to be told? Sarah's. Yes, we've seen her boobs, her posing, her preening, but where's her story? Is it coming up? Will Rob dump her if they lose the IC? There was some foreshadowing to this when Rob told Sean he did not have feelings for Sarah, but that he is playing her. Too many unknowns about Silicon Sarah. Sean's story is in full development by now: Angry black man, doesn't want to follow any other male, feels bonded to Vee due to spirituality,etc. He's likely the subject of the clue "one tribe member has a change of attitude, but does he really?" So, who's the most likely of Sean and Sarah to go?   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: Editing, Character Development,... ulalame 03-19-02 1  Bravo weltek 03-19-02 2  RE: Editing, Character Development,... Loree 03-19-02 3  RE: Editing, Character Development,... George Tirebiter 03-19-02 4    RE: Editing, Character Development,... sorgee 03-20-02 18  RE: Editing, Character Development,... I_AM_HE 03-19-02 5    Just a thought ycartdraw 03-19-02 7        RE: Just a thought SurvivinDawg 03-19-02 8  RE: Editing, Character Development,... SurvivinDawg 03-19-02 6  RE: Editing, Character Development,... Naked 03-19-02 9    RE: Editing, Character Development,... TheWanderer 03-19-02 10        RE: Editing, Character Development,... smokedog 03-19-02 13    RE: Editing, Character Development,... I_AM_HE 03-19-02 14  RE: Editing, Character Development,... Krautboy 03-19-02 11  Thank you! Alpengeist 03-19-02 12  RE: Editing, Character Development,... Tatina 03-20-02 15    RE: Editing, Character Development,... SurvivinDawg 03-20-02 16        RE: Editing, Character Development,... Tatina 03-20-02 17            RE: Editing, Character Development,... Loree 03-20-02 19  RE: Editing, Character Development,... Stolimadras 03-20-02 20    RE: Editing, Character Development,... SurvivinDawg 03-20-02 21        RE: Editing, Character Development,... Stolimadras 03-20-02 22  Face time factor jancan 03-20-02 23

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ulalame 778 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 03-19-02, 01:20 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Editing, Character Development, etc." You raise some really interesting ideas. I too think that Maaramu is going to tribal council again tonight -- I think the "Winds Twist" title really is a reference to "Twisting in the Wind," a reference to just how badly the Moomoos are doing. "End of Innocence" is the Rotus going to tribal council for the first time. Likewise, although my initial instinct was that Gina was the one to go this week from Maaramu, after reviewing your post and considering the "storylines," I now think it's going to be Sean. His story's been told--all that really remains is his "losing out" on being the Alpha Male of Maaramu. This will leave Rob and his covey of girls. Wanna bet the IC in Episode 5 is some kind of "balancing test" which always seems to favor the women?   Top

weltek 16936 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-19-02, 01:27 PM (EST) 2. "Bravo" Wonderfully put! Thanks for taking the time to put that all down, I know it takes awhile to get a point clearly across when writing these kinds of posts. Following your logic (which I totally agree with, here is evidence for and against: Sean: illogical, OFG theory between the two favors him, story has been told Sarah: logical, story could or could not be done, oh...and the article about her being very hungry upon her return. I don't think the bug bites are conclusive enough to bring in as evidence. Likely votes: Rob: Sarah's vote in his pocket still slightly useful, but also bonds with Sean. If he feels Sean is with him 100%, he'll possibly sacrifice Sarah if he needs to. Gina is his best bet to vote against as an "outsider". Gina: She still wants Sarah gone and swaying others to vote for her is Gina's only chance to save herself. Sarah: Will likely vote for Gina with Rob. She knows Gina voted against her. Vee: Major vote here. Sarah is the only one left she's really spoken out against. I think she's only pretending to be in alliance with Sean because she knows she needs it. Gina may be able to recruit her. Sean: Another major vote. Does he dislike Sarah enough? Last time we saw him confront Rob about his feelings towards her & feel the situation out. Rob said he didn't have feelings for her, but was just using her vote. Vee could convince him to vote for Sarah. So, Rob is UTR according to my short analysis. Sean is a pretty long shot also. Sarah and Gina seem to be the prime candidates. I can't see Rob being left to play with only girls. That leads to a Sarah vote off when bringing all theories together...depending on how much credence my analysis has.   Top

Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-19-02, 01:40 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Editing, Character Development, etc." I have been trying to figure our Sean's strategy. That might be giving him too much credit and maybe he doesn't have one. But is he acting lazy so as not to be seen as a threat? He may think with his body that he will be a big IC threat after the merge. So is he throwing challenges and looking weak so as not to look like a threat? The minute they have the merge the strong ones are targeted. If Rob and Sean have an alliance (the handshake) they could both be thinking their group of 3 or 4 (Rob, Sarah & Sean - maybe Vee)is to their advantage. Rob thinks if he has Sarah he has her vote. But Sean could be thinking he knows he can beat Sarah or Vee in an individual IC and his alpha male ego thinks he can beat Rob. So he has the lead in their alliance. This puts Gina and maybe Vee at risk. Of course they are at the mercy of the Rotu players after the merge. But Sean and Rob may not even be thinking about that. Rob probably thinks he can use his Godfather attitude to pull over a few weak players from Rotu. I just think Sean and Rob must have some plan. They got rid of Hunter and you wouldn't do that without a plan. But then again I could just be hoping that they have more brains than they have shown. I keep remembering the handshake between Rob and Sean although we never heard all their conversation. And where does Vee fit into this. We know Sarah is with Rob. But is Vee that close with them? Was she the spy sent to overhear Hunter and Gina's plan? What is MB keeping from us?   Top

George Tirebiter 2982 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 03-19-02, 01:46 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Editing, Character Development, etc." LAST EDITED ON 03-20-02 AT 10:13 AM (EST) Ahhhhh, I love a scholarly approach! . . . but will it help to figure out these clueless bastids? The Hunter vote alone tells me we can't trust them to have a clue as to how to play the game. . . (Logic? We don't need no stinkin' logic! ) Until I read this, I was set to say that Sarah and The Twins are going tomorrow. I do feel strongly that Rotutu won't go to TC until next week (their "end of innocence,") but was assuming that Gina would be aligning with Sean and Vee against Sarah--it certainly would simplify their lives (at least Gina's and Vee's) if they were to convince Sarah that Rob has no loyalty to her and her only chance would be to vote against one of the men now, one later. . . Nah--now that I've said that, I can't see Sarah having the consciousness to go that route. She thinks the Robfather is her ticket to the merge. I think she'll go--and barring a swap or merge, Sean and Rob would be next. What I'm REALLY hoping is that Burn-it's promise that S4 has ONE GREAT VILLAIN does NOT mean Rob. . . His "sinister" act last episode really turned my stomach, and I don't want to have to put up with his posturing and delusions of intelligence for that long. . . GT (Disclaimer: my opinion is still up in the air, and subject to change with every post I read over the next 24 hours. . . how's THAT for clueless? )   Top

sorgee 1455 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson" 03-20-02, 12:35 PM (EST) 18. "RE: Editing, Character Development, etc." I have NO idea what is going to happen, but reading your post made me wonder about something. So far we have heard over and over again how Rob is playing Sarah. But what if, and it's a big if, Sarah is actually playing Rob and she turns on him this episode? It's just a thought. I don't really like what I have seen of Sarah so far, but she can't possibly be as stupid and as naive as she has been made to appear. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::on't do the action if you can't handle the reaction. ~deborah briggs   Top

I_AM_HE 6123 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-19-02, 02:12 PM (EST) 5. "RE: Editing, Character Development, etc." The End of Innocence could also be referring to the aftermath of TC4, though, in which case Rotu could still go tomorrow. And I tend to like that better in light of The Winds Twist title. However, if twist is literal, and we get some player swap, its hard to conceive of a situation in which a Rotu would take the walk of shame ahead of yet another Moomoo. If the twist just means a change in fortune, then I could see a Rotu TC, and the title of Ep 5 referring to that If another Moomoo goes, though, I completely agree, it will be either Gina or Sarah. Gina if the voting bloc holds, Sarah if Sean and Vee side with Gina (who is trying to persuade themin the preview) A switch in alliances also would fulfill The Winds Twist, although it doesn't seem capable of providing the drama needed to make it necessary to watch the first ten minutes. If its a Rotu, Kathy and Robert are still my top picks, in that order (and I suppose a Rotu-heavy new tribe post-merge might vote one of them off in fear of them attempting a cross-tribal alliance) Basically, I have no idea what to expect   Top

ycartdraw 46 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 03-19-02, 02:51 PM (EST) 7. "Just a thought" I don't know if this is the best place to post this so if not let me know and I will repost. In regards to the titles of the shows, I like the theory that the "winds twist" is about mamu finally winning an IC and the "end of innocence" is referring to Rotu members getting upset over the votes. I think someone turns nasty!!! Possibly Neleh, since she is the one they call innocent. Maybe she gets a vote or two, gets mad and shows a conniving (sp?) side, that she is not as innocent as once thought.   Top

SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-19-02, 02:53 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Just a thought" Also, more in general... if RotoRooter has to go to TC in Episode 4, they will just about HAVE TO start forming alliances next episode. That will probably be the concentration of the Episode 5 program as we begin to see more of Rotu. *** Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged   Top

SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-19-02, 02:21 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Editing, Character Development, etc." Maraamu goes to TC again this week because next week Rotu will go, ending their innocence OR, if Maraamu loses this IC, then the tribes might merge at 8-4 into one new tribe, thus ending the innocence of the Rotu tribe. The one thing I really agree with you about: RotoRooter has gotten so little face time to this point because all the exciting stuff is happening in the Maraamoooo camp, and there is plenty of time to tell most of the RotoRooters' stories. *** Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged   Top

Naked 887 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 03-19-02, 05:12 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Editing, Character Development, etc." I am having trouble writing this post because I am standing up and applauding your well thought out ideas. Thank you for an incredible annalysis of MB's storytelling that we have seen so far. I agree whole heartedly that he followed your pattern almost to a T in S2, and S3, but in S1 he told his story a little differently. When we look at S1, he gave us the winner from the beggining of the show, and he showed us the winning strategy all the way throughout the show. The boot picks where easy. All we had to do was follow who was getting in Tagi's way the most, and then make our selections acordingly. I think that this season is very comparable to S1 in that MB is going back to showing us the obvious again. After reviewing the story, and previews, MB has been all but shouting at us who will be the next to go. Week 1 was obvious because Peter was absent from the food challenge picks. Week 2 was obvious because of the name of EP2 and Pat was shown pissing off her tribemates, and as you pointed out (and I missed) Week 3 did show Hunter to be the one in trouble. IMHO MB, who has been steadily losing ratings, is going back to the old S1 formula, and is making it easier for people to predict what will happen. It is for this reason that i am going to pick Gina for this weeks boot. He is again this week telling us that she is going to go. If she does not get booted this week, then I will go back next week and go over this post with a comb and try and deduce what will be happening in the future. Naked   Top

TheWanderer 267 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 03-19-02, 05:23 PM (EST) 10. "RE: Editing, Character Development, etc." Let's face it, it is more than liely that Maraamu lose another IC this week. Although I want to see Sean booted, Sean and Vee probably approach Gina and agree to vote in a block against Sarah. Neither Sean nor Vee like her that much. Sean & Vee realize that in order to win any further challenges, the strongest members must remain. They don't tell Rob and I'm sure he'll get pissed when Sarah gets booted. Rotu loses next week, since the members that sat out the challenge previously, can't sit out again, unless they have to begin rotating, which in all likelihood will occur. To date, Robert, Paschal and Neleh have sat out. Has anyone else on Rotu sat out a challenge? The one who sits out this week will depend upon the challenges. In either case Rotu loses next week (End of Innocence) and boot one member. Although many of us want Kathy to be booted and many believe that she will be booted based on evidence as in previous Survivors, i.e, story told... face time... I’m not sold on it. Remember how everyone was hoping that Jerri would get the boot? Remember how much face time she had? Plenty and for weeks until we all sighed with relief when she finally bit the big one (…and not Colby’s either!). Kathy will get the boot, I hope she does, although I don’t necessarily agree she’ll be the first Rotu to go. Who’s the most innocent? Who appears to be the weakest? We’ve not seen a great deal of character development from the Rotu side. The two with the most face time are Kathy and John. However, it might be a surprise when they have to vote and Neleh gets the boot. She's had some face time; she appears likeable and sweet. However, remember it’s pre-merge, they’ll be down 7 – 4 and not sure if a switch or a merge will occur. They (Rotu) still want the brightest and strongest. If by some strange quirk Rotu loses 2 IC in a row, then they may give Kathy the boot. They would have to rotate those that sat out the last challenge (RC or IC). In either case, whether 6 – 4, or 7 – 3, you’ll now have 10 and time for a merge. So, my tae is if Maraamu lose the week after next, with 4 left, Rob will get the boot, as Gina, Sean & Vee vote him off. Gina, Sean and Vee go to the merge. Sean and Vee get “pagonged” first, as neither has the strength for IC (and Sean doesn’t have the wits for a mental challenge). Gina may win a couple of IC’s and therefore gets protection. If not, I believe she just may make the jury.   Top

smokedog 1885 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 03-19-02, 10:26 PM (EST) 13. "RE: Editing, Character Development, etc." >To date, Robert, Paschal and Neleh have sat out. Has anyone else on Rotu sat out a challenge? Ep. 2 RC: Robert Ep. 2 IC: Everyone participated Ep. 3 RC: Pappy, Sweet Pea Ep. 3 IC: Tammy, John, Robert I didn't hear Jeff Probst mention you can't sit out the same people for consecutive challenges in Marquesas - I know he did in Africa. It appears that Rotu is following that stipulation in any event.   Top

I_AM_HE 6123 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-19-02, 11:58 PM (EST) 14. "RE: Editing, Character Development, etc." I disagree that Hunter was the obvious choice last week. Gina was the obvious choice, because we hardly could have known that Moomoo would be THAT stupid (and it was obvious to Hunter and Gina too- they thought she would be gone if they couldn't get someone to vote for Sarah with them). Well, maybe we should have known, but I still say logic pointed to Gina (or even Sarah if Vee had switched back, or Kathy if Rotu went to TC) and not Hunter. The previews focused more on Hunter, true, but that implied to me that the Hunter/Gina bloc was in danger, and therefore Gina moreso than Hunter, because Hunter was still their strongest member   Top

Krautboy 2750 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 03-19-02, 07:30 PM (EST) 11. "RE: Editing, Character Development, etc." Nightscribe: Outstanding Post! Thanks for this excellent analysis of the Storytellers tools. Your not called Nightscribe for nothing...must have stayed up all night writing this. Thanks! One thing of the many things that has still got me wondering this week is Gina's comment during the preview when she is speaking to someone after returning from TC. Her comments are edited, but she says, "...if I'd of thought you were a liability I'd have voted on you..." Who is she talking to? It can't be Sarah, because Gina DID vote for Sarah. Who might say something like, "You think I'm a liability to the tribe don't you?" Vesepia or Sean probably, and Sean seems a lot more defensive than Vee, so it's probably him. Rob and Sarah are still together, Sean and Rob shook hands, and Gina is backpedaling, "fightinng for her life"; reminds me of Frank before he was saved by the swap in S3. Something happens to save Gina this week...Rotu loses or she is swapped to Rotu before the IC. Krautboy   Top

Alpengeist 76 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 03-19-02, 08:16 PM (EST) 12. "Thank you!" Thank you so much, NightScribe! I always enjoy reading your posts, and this one was VERY informative!   Top

Tatina 112 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 03-20-02, 06:05 AM (EST) 15. "RE: Editing, Character Development, etc." Great post indeed, Night Scribe! Some of the points you made are the same I've been playing with, but I doubt I could have never come up with anything this logical. One thing that has been bothering me lately is the character of Sean. When I read his CBS bio I immediately thought:"Now, this guy will be a schemer." There were so many factors to point on that, his psychology minor (though I'm not sure how an American psychology minor would compare to a Finnish psychology minor...), the fact he played chess... What we've seen this far is a lazy, angry black man. The difference between what we are getting from Sean's bio and the way he is edited is huge, so huge I've been thinking they must be hiding something. My idea has been reinforced by the fact that the person he seems most aligned with, Vee, has been fairly invisible as well. So I really think that what they are hiding is the strategy Sean and Vee are using. I think it's truely a strategy we haven't seen previously on Survivor. I think that the comments by Gervase and Ethan in the pre-game CBS website promo ("You think you know how the game is played" "Think again") are referring to the fact that we are really going to see something completely new strategically. Sean and Vee are intentionally cannibalizing their tribe, distructing any other solid alliances that have been formed, knowing that they will go to the merge united in any case. The strategy has been a successful one this far, since it has kept them in the game. It should be successful for at least another episode, since it hasn't been revealed yet (although I think that Sean's "Now the game is getting interesting" remark on one of this weeks teasers might be the beginning of the end) Of course, it shouldn't get Sean and Vee very far, seeing how united the other tribe is. But they can always hope on being able to spot the misfits of Rotu, and hang in there for a while.   Top

SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-20-02, 07:27 AM (EST) 16. "RE: Editing, Character Development, etc." Sean and Vee are intentionally cannibalizing their tribe, distructing any other solid alliances that have been formed, knowing that they will go to the merge united in any case. Excellent point, Tatina! Scintillating! How else to explain the fact that they voted for Sarah in Ep.1, but NOT for Sarah in Eps. 2 and 3? It brings up a point I made a while back on another thread (and I'm too lazy to go find the link now) that Maraamu going into the merge down 8-4 or worse isn't necessarily a bad thing BECAUSE Rotu's competing alliances will absorb the new players rather than have 8 persons gang up on them. We haven't seen any competing alliances on Rotu, and it may well be they haven't formed very strong alliances yet because they haven't had to. But at some point in time, they'll have to. *** Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged   Top

Tatina 112 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 03-20-02, 07:53 AM (EST) 17. "RE: Editing, Character Development, etc." Yes, it would have been important for them to crush the first obvious alliance of Rob and Sarah as soon as possible. But it would have been immensely more important for them to vote out Pat rather than Sarah EP 2, since it was obvious Pat would stuck to Hunter and Gina no matter what. Hunter had to go because Sean really couldn't stand the guy, but also because he is obviously quite a bright guy, and would have figured out the Sean's and Vee's strategy at some point. Actually Hunter's seemingly unreasonable behavior of trying to sway Rob rather than Sean and Vee was caused by the fact they couldn't be swayed (the relevaition having to do something with the fact Vee voted for Pat instead of Sarah?). At this point this is all speculation, by tonight we should know whether Sean and Vee are really the knuckleheads they seem to be or there has been a claryfying moment that makes us see it all in perspective... I just can't wait for it!   Top

Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-20-02, 12:59 PM (EST) 19. "RE: Editing, Character Development, etc." Hunter seemed to want to keep Rob because Rob did work. Hunter had a big problem with Sean's laziness and I don't think he wanted an alliance with someone as lazy as Sean. But Hunter's big mistake was openly telling Rob that he wanted to vote off Sarah. That sent Rob to the other side. The interesting thing will be if Sean starts to work now that Hunter isn't there telling him what to do. Will Sean do anything without being told and then complaining?   Top

Stolimadras 40 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 03-20-02, 01:57 PM (EST) 20. "RE: Editing, Character Development, etc." This is my first post...you all just dragged me in I just have to say this is one of the best analysis' of the show that I have ever read. Many of us last week said the two lesser factions of Moomoo getting would join together to remove the Hunter force but we expected Gina would actually be the boot, just so they had still had hunters strength. I was shocked last week, but I think this may repeat itself. I expect Gina and Sean and Vee to all get together, but the logical choice would be to vote out Sarah...keeping Robs stength. After last week I am going the other direction. Moomoo's don't care about winning the challenge anymore, now it is all about making it to the merge (which I too believe is going to happen at 12)so sean will kick out Rob as to leave no one strong when he reaches the merge and can go it alone.   Top

SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-20-02, 02:00 PM (EST) 21. "RE: Editing, Character Development, etc." Anyone with a name like "Stoli" is always welcome, in my book! Stoli, find your way to the vote thread and commit yourself to your idea, but allow me to say this much: Do you think Rob and Sean might have a stronger alliance than that? Also, what do you think Vee's input to all this might be? Enquiring minds want to know.... *** Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged   Top

Stolimadras 40 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 03-20-02, 02:34 PM (EST) 22. "RE: Editing, Character Development, etc." "Do you think Rob and Sean might have a stronger alliance than that?" I did think they had a stronger alliance before but, being a New Englander myself, I can see Rob's southie attitude coming to the spotlight, and I can see Sean's Harlem representation not liking that. Both Rob and Sean saw the end of hunter as a way to move into the lead position. I think that will hurt them both...Rob now and Sean once they merge. Let me try to elaborate more... PURE Speculation coming here. These are my thoughts as to how it will play out. Gina knows she is in trouble and tries to merge with Sean and Vee to get rid of the mutually agreed upon slacker, Sarah. Sean and Vee go for the alliance, but Rob comes to Sean and tells him to vote for Gina, mostly because Sarah wants Gina gone and Rob wants to please the woman. Sean gets mad inside that Rob would tell him what to do and goes back to Gina and Vee and convinces them to vote out Rob instead. To Gina this can be swung be reminding her Rob turned on Hunter. Vee on the other hand will ride along with Sean to remain under the radar. I really see Vee as an extremely mentally strong person. She knows what is going on and is choosing to stay back out of it. She never allows herself to be drawn into detailed discussions about her thoughts. To remain on this path she will have to just follow at this point. Knowing Sean will hang himself later.   Top

jancan 51 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 03-20-02, 05:37 PM (EST) 23. "Face time factor" Excellent post Nightscribe! I propose to add Neleh as one of the characters already being developed on the Rotu team. Neleh seems to be getting quite a bit of "face" time. I don't mean that she is speaking on camera, but instead seems to be getting more than her fair share of single or double shots. Her "character" is definately being developed. Sarah also seems to get a lot of "face" time, but the reasons (both of them) are obvious. Is Neleh Mark Burnett's little darling? He's editing heavily to get the audience to fall in love with his little pixie. She's really not eye-candy (sorry Survivorerist), Sarah fulfills that role and Neleh wears too much cloth for that. Or.... Is she being edited to attract a certain kind of fan (that wants nice people to play)? Or.... Is Mark Burnett setting us up for an Elizabeth or Kim J finish. Or.... Is he's subtly building her character so as not to give away her boot on the next episode, "The loss of Innocence". The general viewing audience would be shocked if Neleh were voted off before Kathy. Can't you just hear the ranting and raving (and the ratings going up) now? The ratings were better with S1 partly because people loved to hate Rich. Imagine the conflict if the "love tribe" turns out to be evil after all.   Top

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