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"E5 Title: The End of Innocence"
zzz 703 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
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03-14-02, 08:59 AM (EST)
 
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"E5 Title: The End of Innocence" |
According to TV Guide Online, this is the title for E5. What do people think it means?
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bigtomshouldhavewon 20 desperate attention whore postings
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03-14-02, 09:47 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: E5 Title: The End of Innocence" |
Sounds to me like a switch is in the works, espescially considering the "predicament" that the CBS website mentions. I think a switch is the only hope Maramu has left, unless they get incredibly lucky. Voting off Hunter was the stupidest thing they could possibly have done. They all see it as a vacation, only Hunter saw the game for what it really is. Unless something drastic happens, I predict the winner will come from Rotu.
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Tatina 112 desperate attention whore postings
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03-14-02, 09:50 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: E5 Title: The End of Innocence" |
The Love Tribe, or a tribe with a majority of the Old Love Tribe members, finally having to vote off one of their own ?
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combatwombat 15 desperate attention whore postings
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03-21-02, 09:45 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: The End of Innocence - Goodbye Neleh?" |
Yes, yes, I know Sean is 'probably' going to go ... and that Rotu have to lose their cherry at some point ... and Rotu win the RC ... and they throw/lose the IC, but re-reading this thread post-Ep. 4. makes this thought now ? a fathomable scenario.What if Gina-Kathy have bonded, and it's down to a 2-2 tie (assuming Paschal & Neleh may/will vote together)? Tie-break ... Neleh loses ... Maramuu are the 'underdogs' for next week. A passing thought ...
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DeclaringJihadOnSurvivor 60 desperate attention whore postings
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03-14-02, 10:56 AM (EST)
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7. "RE: E5 Title: The End of Innocence" |
Well...I read it as this is the episode the someone does finally get it on...thus ending survivor's "innocence"
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bigtomshouldhavewon 20 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson"
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03-14-02, 11:19 AM (EST)
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8. "has it ever been innocent to start with?" |
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but during S1 didn't one of the women say something like "when (blank) and I go off together, it's all about sex"? Don't know who the girl is or who she's talking about, but this sticks in my mind for some reason.
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ulalame 778 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"
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03-21-02, 02:10 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: E5 Title: The End of Innocence" |
Anyone think that there is a possibility of a Gabe boot if Rotu goes to tribal counsel in E5? Here's my thinking--as much as Sean and Rob are being edited to be losers, when does MB ever make anything that obvious. There could be a reason that Rotu did NOT throw the IC last night--because all the Rotu's don't feel 100% secure in their position. The old MooMoos are definitely going to stick together -- it's their only hope. All they'd need would be one defector from the Rotu tribe to give them a 4-4 tie (which would probably be between Rob and Gabe), and Rob wins the tie breaker. I still think we haven't yet seen our "villian" of this season -- Rob and Sean are too obvious and ineffective. But a traitorous Rotu would really raise the spector of betrayal and villianhood, and would give real credence to the title "End of Innocence." Plus, it would definitely up the stakes (and the excitement level) of the game.
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ItzLisa 3350 desperate attention whore postings
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03-22-02, 02:44 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: E5 Title: The End of Innocence" |
LAST EDITED ON 03-22-02 AT 03:06 PM (EST)>>But in the overly dramatic mind of MB, it is an end of innocence for Rotu to even go to the TC. They haven't gotten their torches yet. They haven't had to sit there through Jeff's "fire is life" yadda yadda yadda. There are still five people who have not had to participate in that ritual. Even if they none of those 5 are voted out this week -- which I do believe will be the case -- they're not longer the Untouchables that Jeff called them during the beginning of E4. *** That's what I think too, Bebo. Total MB misdirection. I think it's as simple as the Rotus' paradise is "shattered" by having to go to their first TC. The Love Tribe will have to get rid of someone, which, since they all seem to be the nice group on this show, is going to be unpleasant for them, even if it is only Sean or Rob. They have the five person majority - I don't think any of the original five who like each other are going anywhere. But since they're a nice bunch, yeah, I can see where even giving the boot to some jerk who just got switched over to their tribe would be a bummer. And after winning not only all the ICs so far, but all the RCs too, losing at all would be "an end of innocence". Can you imagine what heading for TC would be like for that particular bunch? My guess is something that's already been discussed on this forum, that the original five members of Rotu decide to get rid of Sean and Rob as fast as the can before the merge. Since they outnumber Maraamu by four people, the logical thing to do is what's been talked about at Bashers since episode 4 aired, which is Rotu throwing a challenge so they can get rid of Sean or Rob. Also as discussed before, this could explain the tense little conversation between Gabe and John in the Episode 5 preview - the discussion of throwing a challenge. Someone (I forget which thread) made the comparison between Gabe and Ethan when Boran did this to get rid of Silas. Ethan wasn't willing to, but realized, in the long run, it was the best thing for the tribe. I think this is the case here too. Edit to say: D'OH!!! I just made the same Silas/Boran comparison that Webby did, LOL!! ****************************************
 
Visit BlossomArt's Ebay Page! "This is a check made out to you, the Beatles, for $3,000 - you divide it up any way you want. If you want to give Ringo less, it's up to you." (SNL's Lorne Michaels, April 1976)
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zeako 99 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"
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03-22-02, 12:25 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: S1 boot order" |
Actually, I think it was Joel who was booted just before the merge. The Pagongers didn't like his idea of voting as a block of five after the merge. Plus the whole Cow incident.
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Spidey 6259 desperate attention whore postings
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03-21-02, 10:09 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: E5 Title: The End of Innocence" |
LAST EDITED ON 03-21-02 AT 10:12 PM (EST)LAST EDITED ON 03-21-02 AT 10:10 PM (EST) If Gabe actually gets ousted in Ep5, the switch will have been worth the ire it is causing. Then everything is a crap shoot from here on in, as tribal lines will really have broken down. But I can't see ANY of the Rotu's left there defecting. Gabe is well liked and I think it could ruin the insigator's (John?) chances down the line for his duplicity.
* Edited for poor spelling!
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ulalame 778 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"
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03-22-02, 01:31 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: E5 Title: The End of Innocence" |
I was actually taking into account the speculation that when the twist was happening, if you watched the faces of the Rotus and where they stood, it appeard that Gabe and Zoe were more alligned with Neleh and Pashal--and that John, Robert and Tammy might be alligned. If this is the case, then Gabe's alliance has been gutted. Truthfully, we haven't seen anything at all about alliances on Rotu, and I don't buy it that they haven't consider that part of the game at all. I think they have, but we just haven't seen it. After all, even if it comes down to only the 8 Rotu's left, there certainly is a big difference between being the first Rotu being voted out and being the last (the winner). They've got to be jockeying internally to be part of the dominant alliance, the one that will take them to the final 4. The Rotu may be counting on the fact that they have strong majorities in both tribes, and thus can risk winnowing down their own numbers pre-merge, to get rid of the stronger players. This is pure speculation, but I could see an alliance of Robert, Tammy and John believing it to be good strategy and their only sure chance to get rid of Gabe and even out the post-merger alliances in Rotu; thus leading to a Gabe boot in E5.
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SurvivorBlows 15230 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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03-22-02, 02:47 PM (EST)
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26. "RE: E5 Title: The End of Innocence" |
Let's keep in mind as to what happened in the Survivor 3 twist...1) Due to their internal tribal breakdown, Frank/Teresa allianced with Ethan, MamaKim, and Clarence to boot SILAS
2) Tom, Lex, and Kelly booted Lindsey
3) The Borings then booted one of their own just after the merge -- CLARENCE
4) Kelly defected from The Borings to Samburu after The Borings made it clear they no longer trusted her. At the same time, Brandon joined up with The Borings to oust Kelly (that's TWO -- count 'em folks -- TWO defections and one backstabbing in one epsiode
5) The Borings turned back around on Brandon and ousted him in the very next episode (that's the second consecutive backstabbing by The Borings.) I'm just pointing this out as reference for the "that will never happen" agrument. Some might say that you could already draw some parallels between S3's boot of Silas and S4's boot of Sarah (both saw their own team members who disliked them team with the other tribe to aid in booting them.) My point is that we saw a number of STRANGE situations come out of the original Twist -- multiple defections, tribes picking off members of their own rarther than the other tribe, alliances voting off members of their own. There is no doubt Burnett deemed it to be successfully, in his view those SIX days apart raised numerous suspicions and allowed other group dynamics to form that might not have very well formed during a simple merge (does anyone here think Lex would have "trusted" Brandon if he'd only spent 6 days in a merged camp with him rather than an additional 6 days by themselves?) ...therefore in hindsight it's no surprise that he opted to REPEAT the merge -- as well as lengthen the switch time to NINE days. Will Gabe go pre-merge... right now I have no idea, but with Sarah having filled the Silas role in the above step #1, I could easliy see KATHY playing Clarence's role. -SB
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ItzLisa 3350 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
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03-22-02, 03:13 PM (EST)
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28. "RE: E5 Title: The End of Innocence" |
LAST EDITED ON 03-22-02 AT 03:22 PM (EST)>but in the clip that is shown of the "argument" between John and Gabe, it is John that is arguing for reuniting the Rotu tribe, not Gabe. Unless one of the old Maraamus is able to pull a Brandon and convince the other four old Rotus that Gabe has jumped ship, I just don't see Gabe being a target this round of the four old Rotus. *** Agree - and really, I don't even see that clip as so much of an "argument". I see it as John's rather tense personality, which I notice tiny glimmers of from time to time. He's not histrionic per se, but with Tweedle-Dum and Tweedle-Dee now on the tribe, I can envision him going go Gabe and kind of panickedly saying "Gabe, Gabe, we have to do something, don't we? Don't we?? We have to save the tribe!" or something to that effect. John strikes me as a rather panicky personality that just hasn't surfaced yet till the right situation arises - now, this is that situation. And really, we don't even see Gabe's answer - just that John is pressing him to the wall about what to do, so we can't even really say it's an "argument"; we're only seeing John panicking at Gabe. ****************************************
Visit BlossomArt's Ebay Page! "This is a check made out to you, the Beatles, for $3,000 - you divide it up any way you want. If you want to give Ringo less, it's up to you." (SNL's Lorne Michaels, April 1976)
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drich61 558 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
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03-23-02, 07:12 PM (EST)
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32. "John and Gabe" |
>I'm not discounting the possibility of
>John being manipulating and deceitful,
>but in the clip that
>is shown of the "argument"
>between John and Gabe, it
>is John that is arguing
>for reuniting the Rotu tribe,
>not Gabe.I agree it is John we hear talking, but you do not argue for something with questions. {John} Are we staying tight? Is that the deal?
{John} Are we trying to put Rotu back together? These are the types of questions you ask someone when you are trying to verify that you understood what they were telling you. It is very risky for these two to throw the next challenges, for sure one of them is getting 3 votes against them at TC. They need to be 100% sure of the other 4 votes or their game is over. With the strategy being lose the IC's, they are no longer needed to beat the other tribe. Now would also be the perfect time to get rid of them, before an individual immunity run. I hope Rotu sticks together to boot Sean and Rob, but can understand the nervousness of Gabe and John in this strategy.
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JohnMc 2679 desperate attention whore postings
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03-25-02, 10:13 AM (EST)
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35. "RE: John and Gabe" |
"for sure one of them is getting 3 votes against them at TC."Not necessarily. If Vee plays her cards right, she can save herself by distancing herself from her lazy butt teammates. It is a new tribe now. TBird was able to keep herself alive for a long time because she truly became part of the new tribe. At some point, Vee may need to win immunity in order to stay alive, but if that can carry her to 5th instead of getting booted pre-jury, well, what would you do? Along those lines, Rob could start to save his own butt the same way: by participating in tribal chores and, probably more importantly, distancing himself from Sean. The tribe is plenty strong w/o so many so-called "alpha males." They have their shelter, they have their food, and the Old Rotu w/in New Rotu are in pretty tight socially. They can now have fun and can get rid of deadweight. Sean could easily get the boot. Who would he vote for? Not sure, since he's really mad at everyone. Doesn't really matter, though, since the bootee's vote is a throwaway now that prior votes don't count.
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true 9689 desperate attention whore postings
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03-22-02, 03:27 PM (EST)
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29. "RE: E5 Title: The End of Innocence" |
LAST EDITED ON 03-25-02 AT 01:38 PM (EST)It seems the majority are thinking the title refers to Rotu's first IC loss, and trip to TC. To me, that seems like the most logical scenario. Having said that, I just thought I'd throw another idea in the mix. The End of Innocence, could mean a Gina boot. Gina being the last of the non schemers on original MooMoo, and the last original member of Moo Moo. No matter how hard I try, I can't see the New MooMoo winning any challenge, unless Rotu thows it their way. Since MB showed Kathy suggesting that very idea, I am sorta doubting that it happens. (yet anyway) The arguing over at Rotu is this weeks misdirection, giving the viewers hope that they self distruct. So, innocence is gone, and all thats left is the Rotu 8 and the bad guys. I don't see Kathy, Neleh, or Paschal turning on each other pre merge to save Gina. While they may like her, I can't see them taking the chance on getting rid of one of their own without first consulting the powers that be over on new Rotu. Kathy may be annoying, but she can easily be eliminated later. At this point, if there isn't an early merge, the new MooMoo 3 become underdogs to the new Rotu 8. Hence the title of Episode 6. Or, the underdogs could refer to Sean, Rob and Vee. Either way, the new Moo Moo (underdogs) finally pull one out, and Rotu goes to IC. Other things supporting a Gina boot pre merge- 1. Her rumored relationship with Hunter.
2. Sarahs Early Show comments. (she likes Gina now)
3. Pat has no Rotu friends. I'm not saying that I believe that it will go this way, but it is another possibility.
true
True friends stab you in the front -Oscar Wilde edited to correct episode number.
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TheWanderer 267 desperate attention whore postings
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03-22-02, 04:35 PM (EST)
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30. "RE: E5 Title: The End of Innocence" |
1) Ep 5 is "End of Innocence"; Ep 6 is "Underdogs"
2) It is obvious from Kathy's comments regarding Rotu throwing an IC, that as a tribe, they've probably discussed it before hand,how they would as a group handle switched members, depending upon how much they contribute to the tribe.
3) Logic dictates that Rotu throws the IC and gets rid of Rob or Sean.
4) If Rotu doesn't throw the IC or jus plain wins, I don't see the new Maraamu booting Gina. I see Gina voting together against Kathy.
5) If it goes down to 8 - 3, then an early merge would occur. If you want to take Pat's comments as Gospel, then the next erpson voted off would be from Maraamu. Then the merge occurs and a new tribe is formed. Then of course she would not know any Rotu. She was not asked if she new members of the merged tribe.
6) Sarah's comments on the Early Show may indicate that Gina goes farther than we would expect.
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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
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03-25-02, 10:28 AM (EST)
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36. "RE: E5 Title: The End of Innocence" |
LAST EDITED ON 03-25-02 AT 10:51 AM (EST)>The End of Innocence, could mean
>a Gina boot. Gina
>being the last of the
>non schemers on original MooMoo,
>and the last original member
>of Moo Moo. No
>matter how hard I try,
>I can't see the New
>MooMoo winning any challenge, unless
>Rotu thows it their way. >I don't see Kathy, Neleh, or
>Paschal turning on each other
>pre merge to save Gina.
> While they may like
>her, I can't see them
>taking the chance on getting
>rid of one of their
>own without first consulting the
>powers that be over on
>new Rotu. Kathy may
>be annoying, but she can
>easily be eliminated later.
>
>Other things supporting a Gina boot
>pre merge-
>
>1. Her rumored relationship with Hunter.
>2. Sarahs Early Show comments.
>3. Pat has no Rotu friends.
>
Gina could be the last pre-jury boot, as with Getchen, Jeff V., Clarence, and still satisfy this material. I don't see a Gina boot being what the title can refer to, since the Hunter boot already shocked her. Not saying I think she's safe this episode, just that it doesn't seem to me that this is what the title refers to. It does seem more likely that it means Rotu finally goes to Tribal Council. As for New Maraamu's chances of defeating New Rotu in a challenge, there could be a challenge which would favor a team with fewer players, as the maze challenge in S2ep5 gave the Oga's their first challenge victory in a long while. If the challenge were to be ring-toss, for instance, then if the four NewMoos are all reasonably good ring-tossers and have to keep going around in order, four reasonably good ring-tossers in NewRoo would have a harder time trying to win as they would have to cycle with the four no-good ring-tossers. Or the title could simply refer to the camp raid, which seems like a miserable excuse for a reward to me. edited to add: Of course, with Original Rotu now up on Original Maraamu eight to four, it could mean that Original Rotu pull a typical dunderheaded Survivor move and start eating their own rather than pressing their advantage. I can't imagine why New Rotu would keep either Knucklehead Sean or Knucklehead Rob around any longer than they have to, but stranger things have happened (Clarence giving Teresa the first individual immunity in S3 when he knew his head was on the chopping block). In New Maraamu Gina may have a better chance of breaking it up, since she now is the guide for the camp, the one who best knows her way around; though after six days that advantage may wear out. What I see as the possibility there is that she and Kathy have formed a bond, this could result in the tie going to deadlock should New Maraamu have to go again to TC. We still don't know what the deadlock breaker is for S4.
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
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03-25-02, 03:37 PM (EST)
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41. "RE: E5 Title: The End of Innocence" |
I think MB has planned this raiding the others camp as a way to shake up the original Rotu alliance.This would imply that this challenge is made up and not planned far in advance (as MB claims). If he DID plan this in advance, then I'd have to say that MB's original intent was probably to keep one tribe from throwing a challenge, as Boran did to get rid of Silas. I know, I know, it's an RC not an IC, but my idea is that it was designed to cause the newly formed tribes to work together more than they did in Survivor III. 
*** Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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coyotedean 12 desperate attention whore postings
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03-25-02, 06:30 PM (EST)
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42. "RE: E5 Title: The End of Innocence" |
just for laughs I checked dictionary.com for innocence:http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=innocence I think it pretty much means that one tribe steals from the other. Or the Villian becomes known. Its probably has some significance in the book 'Typee' written about the tribes on the island too. If it pertains to the 5th BOOT then it might refer to Gabriel.
The Angel that explained Mary's pregnancy to her. If its neither of those then it means that one of the women is pregnant. (don't look at me... Rob is the horndog)
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