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"Alpha Male Discussion"
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NightScribe 761 desperate attention whore postings
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03-03-02, 03:27 PM (EST)
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"Alpha Male Discussion"
There has been much discussion since Episode 1 of who is the Alpha male in each tribe (or at least who is competing for that title) and I thought it would be productive to start a discussion about this so called Alpha Male role and how it affects tribe dynamics/success in the game.

Mark Burnett discusses the role of the Alpha Male in his S1 companion book. He says the following in regards to Joel and BB's stuggle for the alpha male role, "Like silverback gorillas in the mountains of Rwanda, where one alpha male oversees a harem of women and a herd of lesser young males, Joel was rising up to challenge the authority of the aging leader. . . . But Joel was so wrapped up in achieving alpha male status that he wasn't paying attention to the slowly-emerging rules of Survivor. Being Alpha male wasn't necessarily a good thing. Power made someone a threat" (Burnett 41).

Keeping that in mind, I began thinking about the role of the "A" male and how that affected their play and eventual success or failure in the game.

In past seasons, there has always been a struggle between the strong men for the status of alpha male. Usually the struggle doesn't last long, and the stronger prevails. Consider the early days at Tagi where Sean and Dirk attempted to gain the status of "A" male: Sean builds SP2000, excels in challenges, and belittles Rich for catching only Manta Rays. Because he couldn't provide food and was dumber than a box of hammers, Richard took over the "A" male role, and as we all know, eventually won the million.

In S2, it didn't surprise me that Kel got the first vote. Colby was obviously not going to allow his biggest threat to stay in the game. Voting Kel off guaranteed his "A" male status as Mitchell and Keith never really tried to claim it after that. His success in the game depended upon ousting competing Alpha males. Over on Kucha, Skupin was the only man there to vye for the title, and since he was so good at providing food, no one really competed with him. We will never know how far he would have gone if he hadn't been evacuated from the game.

Now S3 is an anomalie in this pattern, partly because of the twist, and partly due to a high number of UTR strategies going on. Clarence blew his chances right off the bat, leaving Lex to step up. Since Ethan played UTR and Tom chose the role of the Jester, Boran never truly was dominated by an Alpha Male. I distinctly recall that tribe being associated with Elephants which are matriarchal. However, if there was an Alpha Male, it was Lex, and he didn't do too shabby in the game.

The Alpha males on Samburu were on opposing alliances (Frank and Silas). Due to poor strategizing and bad personalities, these two didn't do that well in the game, but their struggle for the role of leader was instrumental in the divisiveness in Samburu. See, Silas didn't want to be Frank's go-to boy. He wanted to be the leader of his own alliance. He thought he could rule the tribe, but the OFA had their own "A" male. Because the tribe couldn't agree on who should be their leader, the split divided them all.

Last Thursday, we saw the emergence of Hunter and Sean's statement that "I'm an Alpha Male too, and I don't want to just follow him like a puppy dog." Considering that Hunter has more survival skills than Sean, I'm assuming Sean will not win this battle. I don't think Sean will like this though, and it will be interesting to see how this struggle plays out. I didn't get a sense of Maaramu, but OFG's astrology analysis indicates Rob and John as possible candidates.

Here are some interesting patterns. The Alpha Male who wins control and the loyalty of his tribe goes very far in this game (Lex finished 3rd, Colby 2nd, and Richard won). They almost always have a male "2nd". Colby had Keith, Richard had Rudy, Lex had Ethan.

Here's a couple of questions I have about the role of the Alpha Male...

In the quote way up at the top of this post, Burnett says being the "A" male isn't always a good thing because power is a threat. I agree with that to some extent, but let's look at what neutralizes that threat: food provider, strength in challenges, diplomatic rather than overbearing. So, in S4, who do we see as being powerful but necessary, and who is powerful without being necessary?

Does the Alpha male control the vote?

Also, how does the role of Alpha Male change once the merge occurs?


Sorry this post is so long, but I think we can make some guesses about strategy if we can identify the power players and who will win the struggle for the alpha male title.


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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: Alpha Male Discussion smokedog 03-03-02 1
   RE: Alpha Male Discussion Mitrelleum 03-04-02 2
 RE: Alpha Male Discussion SurvivinDawg 03-04-02 3
 RE: Alpha Male Discussion PepeLePew13 03-04-02 4
 RE: Alpha Male Discussion dabo 03-04-02 5
   RE: Alpha Male Discussion johnnydubious 03-04-02 6
 RE: Alpha Male Discussion idiotcowboy 03-04-02 7
 Rob knows his place :-).... anotherkim 03-04-02 8
   Hunter = Alpha Male jkokoj 03-04-02 9
 RE: Alpha Male Discussion NightScribe 03-04-02 10
 RE: Alpha Male Discussion ItzLisa 03-05-02 11
 RE: Alpha Male Discussion NightScribe 03-11-02 12

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smokedog 1885 desperate attention whore postings
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03-03-02, 06:22 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Alpha Male Discussion"

Maraamu alpha male: Hunter w/ Rob at his right hand. Sean will need to accept a submissive position because he is ounumbered at this point 4-2 (Hunter/Gina/Sarah/Rob vs. Sean/Vee). My advice to him would be to hang on until the merge, and then maybe go behind enemy lines to win over the Rotu tribe. This block of four seems solid and Patricia is likely gone next. Hunter controls the vote in this tribe.

Rotu alpha male: John w/ Robert at his right hand. Gabe seems submissive and Paschal is likely to be booted soon. John seems to have a grasp on how to play the game, providing by getting fire and establishing good interpersonal relations by making up with Kathy. Robert is needed now for his strength and will make the merge and he seems at this point to be a team player. As for controlling the vote, I don't think John will come out and grab this tribe by the scruff of the neck because there appears to be a strong female force here (specifically Tammy and Zoe). I think this tribe will work as a democracy.

Post merge I think John can slip into the shadows and still have a good shot at the win. Robert will likely become a Clarence and exit quickly. Hunter and Rob need to bring in a majority Maraamu into the merge or else they too will be picked off because of their strength. They need numbers to control the vote, so Sarah and Gina will be in tow.

The wildcard here is that I have a sense the Rotu females are going to have a major impact and Tammy could be the Alpha Female. We'll see....

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Mitrelleum 257 desperate attention whore postings
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03-04-02, 02:32 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: Alpha Male Discussion"
Personally I think John and Hunter are the alpha males currently. Gabriel is a good little boy, and Robert seems quiet for now. I'm keeping my eye on Paschal though. Don't underestimate this guy.

As for Maraamu. Hunter, no contest, only because Sean is outnumbered. Rob is Hunter's #####.

As for females. Zoe and Vecepia.
Zoe and Tammy are probably equal but I think Zoe's 6 years age difference will give her the slight edge. She's also seemingly more approachable.
Vecepia. I chose her because Gina and Sarah are not what I would call alpha females, mainly because they will hide behind Hunter with Rob. Patricia actually has a good shot at Alpha female because well, I gotta hand it to her, she's got that take charge attitude Mad Dog would be proud of. But mainly I choose Vecepia because she more than likely thinks for herself.
I still think Maraamu is toast, though.

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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
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03-04-02, 07:55 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: Alpha Male Discussion"
LAST EDITED ON 03-04-02 AT 08:24 AM (EST)

In Maraamu, Hunter assumed the Alpha male role very quickly. Hunter already has a strong alliance. He has Pat, Rob, Sarah and Gina in his bag (and Gina in his bed, if he so desires ). IMHO, only Sarah is not truly totally committed to Hunter's team. Sean only has Vee, as Peter was waxed. Despite his Alpha male claim, Sean is on the outside looking in.

In Rotu, my observation was that the struggle was between John and... Kathy! Gabe also reacted badly to Kathy trying to get work done, and Zoe seemed to bond to Kathy. Judge Paschal had an opportunity to assume a leadership status (during the John/Kathy conflict), but walked away without a word, thus vacating any Alpha male status he might could have attained. We didn't see too much of Rotu in Ep. 1, and saw almost nothing of Robert, so it's harder to make a good analysis.


*** Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

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PepeLePew13 26134 desperate attention whore postings
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03-04-02, 08:03 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: Alpha Male Discussion"
LAST EDITED ON 03-04-02 AT 08:05 AM (EST)

I don't have a strong knowledge of how alpha males work with other males or determining of who might take the reins, but it's pretty obvious that Hunter is the alpha male in Malibu. Now is Rob or Sean the logical 'running mate' to Hunter?

My uncle is a high school teacher in central Los Angeles, not the nicest of areas and it's harder for him as a white person teaching there, too. One thing I remember him telling me is that teachers in that area are taught to stand their ground but to yield whenever they're being challenged. This sounds like Sean (who's a teacher in south-central L.A.) in the first episode speaking out about wanting to be an alpha male, but he could later on realize the importance of going along with Hunter to further his stay in the game as in his teacher training telling him he has to 'give in' for the best of the group?

This might tell me that Sean may be a better choice as a supporting mate for Hunter than Rob. We've seen Hunter "whipping" Rob around and, yes, we've seen Rob snap to his attention but can Hunter trust Rob to tow the company line in the long run?

I think they're not too worried about the long-term implications of Sean and Vecepia voting together for Sarah as opposed to the five votes for Peter. It's my feeling that we might see Sean and Vee eventually join in with Hunter as they all get to know each other more and more.

As for the Rot-U group, it's too early to tell in my estimation, although John might be the early front-runner. We'll know who's the alpha male by the end of episode 2.

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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
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03-04-02, 10:16 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: Alpha Male Discussion"
While he claimed to be an "A" male in confessional, possibly just to bolster his ego, within the Maraamu tribal dynamics Sean has willingly followed Hunter and even taken the opportunity to take it easy. As I see it, Maraamu currently breaks down into three couples and a potential manipulator, rather than being in the control of a true alliance. Gina and Hunter seem tight in their partnership, for Rob and Sarah it just seems to be playtime, whereas Sean and Vecepia have taken a more businesslike approach. This leaves Patricia to play the angles, so the next time Maraamu goes to TC her best play would be to unify two of the couples against someone else (again). While Rob seems to be under Hunter's control, Sarah has gotten by with doing as little as possible, and if she messes up in another challenge she could be in trouble.

Impossible to say from what little we've seen just what's going on in Rotu, but it wouldn't surprise me if Robert tried to claim the leadership role which seems currently to have fallen de facto to Kathy whose "leadership" style is more motivation by pressure than true leadership, leaving a bit of a vacuum. If Robert presses it there may be a real shake-up, as it will become a matter of who gains support, which wouldn't necessarilly fall to either Robert or Kathy.

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johnnydubious 7 desperate attention whore postings
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03-04-02, 11:59 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: Alpha Male Discussion"
Sean has already lost the alpha male battle. Gina is obviously with Hunter. Rob seems to be with Hunter also and anyway Sean voted against his fling which will put Rob firmly in Hunters camp. Vecepia voted with him but smartly kept her options open by paying homage to Hunter during IC. He saw his only other possible male ally, Peter, get voted out. Now the only question is what does he do now? How can he win? In his favor is that the tribe needs him up until the merge. The downside is he will be the outsider/threat once the merge occurs. He needs to do what smart, defeated alpha male challengers always do: lay low, play nice with the Hunters allies, and wait for an opening. Failing that, he needs to wait for the merge, hope Maraamu has a 5-4 edge and then defect.
Actually i forgot about the switch. If they switch again this season it could help Sean the most just as it gave Frank new life.
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idiotcowboy 1135 desperate attention whore postings
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03-04-02, 01:14 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Alpha Male Discussion"
Interesting discussion scribe!

The Alpha male has definately done well for himself in this show. Despite the ill will he has garnered amoungst his tribe no one has been successfully able to oust him before the final 3. Despite having the opportunity to do so (except with Colby who never allowed that possibility to occur by winning out on challenges), the tribes have always found others to remove instead of him when the opportunity arose until there was absolutely no chance for any reprisal (ie MamaKim ousting Lex).

The biggest problem with Alpha male status is there can be only one (by definition). So if you are not the controlling Alpha male, and you are challenging for that position... you're out. That is the downside MB hints at, and likely the undoing of all but the controlling Alpha this season too.

Interestingly enough this could be the season of the Alpha FEMALE to take over. The Rotu tribe has three candidates for that role and given the submissiveness seen so far from the the Rotu males it might make an interesting series come merge time. That being said the Alpha females have not done nearly as well for themself in the past. In fact it has been a fast ticket out for most of them (Gretchen, Alisha, Theresa). We shall see if the pattern holds or this is the season for the female alliance/control.

As far as the role go right now I would have to say Robert is the person who will vie for the Alpha Male role on Rotu. Unfortunately for him I don't think it will work for him if he lives up to the profile we have been lead to believe about him. That leaves Pashcal and John neither of which appear comfortible in the role as of now, and given the female strengths I look for an Alpha Female to take the lead on this tribe.

In Maraamu, Hunter is the man. Don't look for him siding with his competitor Sean any time soon, but dont look for him weakening his tribes chances at the challenges by cutting him loose too soon either. He can't afford though to take on both Rob and Sean so look for Hunter to keep Sarah around as well as his #1 groupie Gina. In a couples alliance as long as he can.

-ICB

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anotherkim 14420 desperate attention whore postings
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03-04-02, 03:26 PM (EST)
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8. "Rob knows his place :-)...."
poor dumb chicken chaser...

"I realize that I am going to have to work to stay in the group now and that this is essentially going to be my fate."


He's already bowed out and let Hunter take control. Sean won't last long--Hunter would be a fool to let him.

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jkokoj 4389 desperate attention whore postings
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03-04-02, 03:35 PM (EST)
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9. "Hunter = Alpha Male"
In agreement with all who posted above. Even though Hunter stated it was too early to be worrying about alliances he was definitly weighing his options. I am sure after the first day it was easy to choose.

LOL Kim "poor chicken chaser" is right. However, Rob may know enough that he will last longer if he becomes Hunter's buddy.

Sean is on the outs. The only way he will survive is for Vee to protect him. I think the secret alliance will be between Hunter and Vee. Hunter already has Gina and will pull along Rob, but Vee is the wild card.

Again, as I have stated before, Patricia is a weak throw away. This addition of Survivor is about the buff and beautiful!

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NightScribe 761 desperate attention whore postings
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03-04-02, 08:02 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Alpha Male Discussion"
I agree with much of what you have all said. It had occured to me, as some of you have suggested, that Rotu may be dominated by strong women at this point. As much as I like that, history tells us that Alpha females don't do well in the game. Mother-types, yes, but strong women, no. Perhaps the only exception to this was Sue Hawk, but only because she had an alliance with the Alpha male.

I also believe that Hunter has reeled Rob in and that Sean's obstinance and lust for power and respect (I'm here to represent!) will most likely put him at a disadvantage. I do not think that the tribe is silly enough to oust him while they still need his strength in challenges, but he makes an ideal candidate for an immediate post merge boot. However, since Sean is weak in the water (lots of water challenges this season, I think) and seems so far not to be a hard worker, they may not find him as necessary as Boran found Clarence.

While many of you believe that Pat is a likely candidate next time Maraamu goes to TC, I am not so sure. Time will tell, but I believe that Hunter will not want to keep Sean around because he is a threat to the Alpha male role title.



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ItzLisa 3350 desperate attention whore postings
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03-05-02, 02:34 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Alpha Male Discussion"
LAST EDITED ON 03-05-02 AT 03:03 PM (EST)

Well, I agree with most here - there's very little doubt that Hunter is the Alpha male on Mara.

I read something very interesting in another review of Ep. 1 that I agree with, which is - when Hunter was talking about the prevailing winds and the banana leaf funnel, etc., what did we see Sean and Rob doing? Making fun of him. Even if you think it was only good-natured teasing, it seems like more underneath - the one guy who obviously knows what he's talking about, and both Sean and Rob clearly felt threatened enough that they stood there and mocked him. Now, in my agreeing with this review, I know I'm playing "Armchair Psychologist" myself, but the way I view Rob and Sean's behavior, usually very insecure and threatened people do that. Someone knows more than you do? Make fun of them to try and knock them down a few pegs! Luckily for Hunter, it clearly was a pretty desperate attempt from both of them, and they both wound up looking silly.

Another thing I agree with here is that after the chicken chasing incident, Hunter obviously took Rob down a few notches. It seemed pretty obvious to me that Rob's lowered, humbled eyes and the way he started picking up the pace around camp that Hunter put him in his place. Sean may perceive himself as someone who doesn't like to be told what to do (oooooh, don't push him around, 'cos he's "representin'!"), but obviously it didn't take much to make Rob toe the line - I'd guess if there was going to be alliances forming now, Rob would might see himself as Hunter's "right hand" rather than his competitor.

That would leave Sean as the one trying to shove Hunter off the throne, which could make Sean the next target at TC (if Mara goes in Ep. 2), rather than Patricia.

As for Rotu, still kinda early to tell. John doesn't seem to have that Alpha Male attitude, but he does seem to be the one male on Rotu who has his act together fairly well. Robert wasn't shown much (and despite my earlier rantings about his possible "bully" personality here and on Bashers, he seemed to get along fairly well with everyone - I think we'll need to see more to make a better judgement). Paschal seems pretty non-confrontational, as does Gabriel.

Another thing I agree with that someone else here said (forget who, sorry!) - it seems like the person on Rotu that John may have the biggest head-butting contest with for leadership is Kathy! I think the rest of the Rotu's may gravitate towards John though - he has good leadership qualities, and seems pretty easygoing. Kathy's disposition appears too intense; she wants to be listened to and obeyed, and she'll keep at everyone until they do as she says, it seemed. Her intensity and anxiety seemed constant, even when things were going well. When they found water and Taro root, everyone else celebrated, but she couldn't even enjoy it because they still didn't have fire. John was shown complaining to Robert and Tracy about her, and we saw in the confessional that Gabriel didn't care for Kathy's "Skipper" attitude either. Kathy could soon find herself wearing thin with her constant demands, with the rest of Rotu automatically turning to much-friendlier and just-as-capable John!

Great topic, Scribey!

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NightScribe 761 desperate attention whore postings
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03-11-02, 03:43 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Alpha Male Discussion"
Last week we thought we had at least one Alpha Male role filled, but that is being called into question. Apparantly Rob does not enjoy being Hunters go-to boy. Hauling rocks was fine, but I guess he drew the line at voting out his only real ally.

The vidcaps Bungler brought over heavily feature Hunter and Rob, leading us to believe that there will be some sort of show down betweent the two. The problem with that is I don't think Rob necessarily wants to be the Alpha Male. He has already admitted his shortcomings when it comes to survival. I think his actions have been more about keeping himself afloat than trying to influence or lead the tribe.

If you recall, Sean was the one who approached Rob about voting off Patricia. So, if there is going to be a challenge to Hunter's leader status, I think it's going to come from Sean and Rob will be the prize for whoever wins (as long as they don't vote off Sarah).

Concerning Rotu, I think the reason we haven't seen an Alpha Male emerge is because 1)Robert has been sick and Rotu is carrying him thus far. 2) John is trying to get it by finding food, but his one shrimp to Kathy's bag-o-seafood is paltry and laughable. He better find another way to assume leadership if he wants it. 3) Kathy's bossiness is scaring anyone away from assuming a leadership role. If you saw the way the tribe was reacting to Kathy for taking initiative, it might make you a little gun shy. Nobody wants to be seen in a negative light.

That said, I do think Gabe is stepping up somewhat. He put Kathy in her place when she gave her ultimatum, he's a leader in the challenges, and gets along well with everyone.

But I think the real reason no Rotu man has stepped up like Hunter has is because this tribe has strong women in it. Although we haven't seen much of them (except Kathy), all of Rotu women have been strong. Even Neleh came through during gross food IC. We may not see an Alpha Male emerge from this group.


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