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"Some Bits and Pieces So Far"
Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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01-23-02, 08:42 PM (EST)
 
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"Some Bits and Pieces So Far" |
This link leads to a LONG compilation of articles printed primarily in Tahitipresse during and after the filming.
Obviously anyone can go to the other site and see this compilation so I didn't do any research myself, but I wanted to have a thread to talk about the aggregate picture it gives us.http://www.survivorfever.net/survivor4-articles.html#11 candidates left One thing that interests me are the pretty clear reports that ONE tribe left its valley cnd relocated to another after the 5th boot, and the report of a gross change in the rules. They moved to a third valley, Hakapaa, and left Hakaui. One tribe remained in Hakatea. There were legal disputes going on over access to the valleys; therefore a change may have been necessary that Burnett did not plan at all. He may have had to evacuate a site to accede to demands of the owners (or claimants) of the land rights. I also hope we can put the 3 tribe thing to rest by considering there are only four bays reserved--only two valleys for the tribes, another site for TC/production, and maybe one was for challenges? Plus a place in the north for bootees/jury. I wonder if the third valley that was used after the sudden move, supposedly after the merge, was originally the bay they were using for the challenges. If they had to make an unplanned move, and no time or wish to negotiate a new location, they would have to use something already available. I understand there are some, perhaps many, inaccuracies in these reports. For example, there are conflicting reports about where the early bootees were sent--supposedly first sequestered on the boat on which they arrived and then flown off (to Australia, probably) when the merge occurred. Seems to say that the jurors stayed in the north of Nuku Hiva in Anaho at some point. Then of course the 14 person jury rumor, which could end in a tie. However, they might have decided to have a tie-breaker in the final vote. It seems unlikely the jury will consist of anyone who didn't spend any tribal time with the finalists though. That's not consistent with the concept at all. And why fly the first 7 bootees away? Obviously they could not attend TC. So I lean towards the regular 9 person jury theory. They say that 9 people merged after the 7th bootee and relocated to a secret location, then they say the merged tribe returns to (or remains in) Hakapaa. Other spoilers that may or may not pan out: that near the end there was a family visit with hot shower, and of course that a man and a woman were the Final 2. Also, the "rules" seem to state they will still get blankets and matches, chickens, etc. for winning challenges. So maybe the No Resources just applied to what they are sent in with, so that they must be all the more driven to win the RC's. There are some more interesting bits--some local-based challenges, a stinking fish gross food element thrown in with 8 players remaining--late in the game for the gross food--after Burnett himself was served the stuff at a local dinner. Also says 3 players refused to eat it and were "penalized." That might mean as little as losing the individual IC or some extra penalty. Also, they claim it was unforseen that the contestants would suffer stinging Nono (insect) bites--but were bitten from the beginning. Reports of Colleen-style infected legs. Actually the first thread I put up listed one valley in the north where even the locals won't live due to the stinging insects, but that valley was later dropped from the list. And we thought MB maybe this would be the Survivor where no one suffered all that much. Not! Anyway, these are translated articles that were not originally written by people who knew a lot about the previous Survivor, so they may get things wrong. On the other hand they seem to be working from sources (and doubtless rumors) and learning about the game more or less from scratch, so they have no reason to make up a change in the rules, for example, as these reporters are pretty obviously without access to the S3 broadcast. As always with this stuff, we shall see. Wow, I just realized this post got so long it will scare Shakes. Sorry about that! I was just happily summarizing. Well, I'm not going to delete half of it now...  
With every mistake, we must surely be learning--George Harrison
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Rose Red 419 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star"
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01-23-02, 09:26 PM (EST)
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1. "Colleen's Legs" |
Well, here we go, off into the Wilde Blue Yonder...Excellent summation OFG! WHERE do you find the time to do all these wonderful detailed posts that you do? My (many) hats off to you, once again!
And speaking of Colleen's legs--- I just rented the S1 compilation tape. I had never seen S1 before, just the fabulous final four finale which hooked me forever. Richard! Winning! I couldn't believe it!
But tell me, what happened to Colleen and her legs? That bit really grossed me out and worried me? What happened to her? It didn't seem to happen to the others. Is she OK now?
Also, did anybody pick up on the fact that BOTH Lindsey and Lex were urinating BLOOD? What is MB doing to these people? And Lex REFUSED an IV?
It's in his Santa Cruz Sentinel interview on SurvivorFever.
And is SurvivorNews deceased?
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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
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01-23-02, 11:43 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Colleen's Legs" |
The contestants in S1 were supplied with daily vitamins to augment their diets, I haven't heard anything about whether this practice was continued through S2 and S3. Anyway, Colleen stopped taking the vitamins at some point, that is what caused the sores on her legs."If all machines were to be annihilated at one moment, so that not a knife nor lever nor rag of clothing nor anything whatsoever were left to man but his bare body alone that he was born with, and if all knowledge of mechanical laws were taken from him so that he could make no more machines, and all machine-made food destroyed so that the race of man should be left as it were naked upon a desert island, we should become extinct in six weeks. A few miserable individuals might linger, but even these in a year or two would become worse than monkeys." (Samuel Butler, "Erewhon")
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Krautboy 2750 desperate attention whore postings
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01-24-02, 02:14 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: Some Bits and Pieces So Far" |
>This link leads to a LONG
>compilation of articles printed primarily
>in Tahitipresse during and after
>the filming... ...I wanted to have a thread
>to talk about the aggregate
>picture it gives us. The picture I got from reading the Tahitipresse articles was one of a small island community with a well developed "grapevine", where word travels quickly and no one has any secrets. If approximately 250 local residents were employed during Survivor 4, information about the show was bound to leak out, and facts, as we have seen, were bound to get confused. The picture the Tahitipresse gives us is a "connect-the-dots" picture with not enough dots...and the Tahitipresse did it's best to fill in dots here and there where they were missing to complete a picture, right or wrong, but at least complete. These articles will be the foundation for much speculation this season and many of the "facts" presented,(true or not), will take on a life of there own. It will be an interesting process to sort out the facts from the fiction. One thing that interests me are
>the pretty clear reports that
>ONE tribe left its valley
>cnd relocated to another after
>the 5th boot, and the
>report of a gross change
>in the rules. They
>moved to a third valley,
>Hakapaa, and left Hakaui.
>One tribe remained in Hakatea. These "reports" probably came from laborers and other local workers unfamiliar with the game. The report of "...ONE tribe left its valley and relocated to another after the 5th boot...", could have been from someone who observed "the swap" and considered it a "gross change in the rules" as they understood them (before S3, EP5...when "the game changed forever".) The "tribe" that "left its valley" could have been the members of one tribe swapping with another, which in S4 may happen during or after EP5 ("after the 5th boot"). The tribe "moving to a third valley" is most likely an observation of the merge, but taken out of context and inserted into a confused timeline. The point, I guess I'm trying to make, is that all of the "reports" could be describing exactly what we expect will happen. The only problem was that the Tahitipresse was unfamiliar with the normal timeline and used some creative license to reassemble the facts in a timeline that made sense to them,(putting dots where they thought they belonged and connecting them) but a little different than what actually happened. >There were legal disputes going on
>over access to the valleys;
>therefore a change may have
>been necessary that Burnett did
>not plan at all.
>He may have had to
>evacuate a site to accede
>to demands of the owners
>(or claimants) of the land
>rights. This sounds feasible and could very well have been the impetus for any number of scenarios...an early merge at 11(after the fifth boot) or a "swap" involving moving a camp to integrate the "forced" move due to legal issues.
>I also hope we can put
>the 3 tribe thing to
>rest by considering there are
>only four bays reserved--only two
>valleys for the tribes, another
>site for TC/production, and maybe
>one was for challenges? Plus
>a place in the north
>for bootees/jury.
Agreed, NO 3 tribes! >I understand there are some, perhaps
>many, inaccuracies in these reports.
>For example, there are conflicting
>reports about where the early
>bootees were sent--supposedly first sequestered
>on the boat on which
>they arrived and then flown
>off (to Australia, probably) when
>the merge occurred. Seems
>to say that the jurors
>stayed in the north of
>Nuku Hiva in Anaho at
>some point. >Then of course the 14 person
>jury rumor... This is most likely just another example of confusion about the timetable and reassembling the facts out of sequence. Most likely, the early bootees were keep in the north part of Nuka Hiva, either on the boat or at a resort until the jury was determined. The non-jury members were then flown to Australia or New Zealand (I read somewhere that it was New Zealand) to vacation until they returned for the cast party after the final vote. The casual Marquesan observer may have assumed that when the early bootees returned just prior to the final vote that they were returning to be participants in that process...and "connected those dots" on their own. It seems unlikely the jury will consist
>of anyone who didn't spend
>any tribal time with the
>finalists though. That's not
>consistent with the concept at
>all. And why fly
>the first 7 bootees away?
> Obviously they could not
>attend TC. So I
>lean towards the regular 9
>person jury theory. Agreed. >They say that 9 people merged
>after the 7th bootee and
>relocated to a secret location,
>then they say the merged
>tribe returns to (or remains
>in) Hakapaa. A forced move, because of legal issues, after episode 5, possibly disguised as a swap, may have forced MB to delay the merge until EP8(when 9 players remained), so the swap, or move or whatever the event was, made sense in the story. >Other spoilers that may or may
>not pan out: that near
>the end there was a
>family visit with hot shower,
>and of course that a
>man and a woman were
>the Final 2. These two seem to have some potential as spoilers. The male/female Final 2 is one of "Munson's Laws" (not to be confused with the OFG Theory) not to mention that it has a 33% chance of being correct in any case. (I know I'll include it in my reasoning for the PTTE in S4). The family visit with hot shower has been speculated to suggest a younger single male (whose parents visit as the reward). This is another one to watch for as S4 gets down to the final 5.
>Also, the "rules" seem to state
>they will still get blankets
>and matches, chickens, etc. for
>winning challenges. So maybe
>the No Resources just applied
>to what they are sent
>in with, so that they
>must be all the more
>driven to win the RC's.
Agreed. No rice, no corn, no water tank, but rewards as usual. >There are some more interesting bits--some
>local-based challenges, a stinking fish
>gross food element thrown in
>with 8 players remaining--late in
>the game for the gross
>food--after Burnett himself was served
>the stuff at a local
>dinner. Also says 3
>players refused to eat it
>and were "penalized." That
>might mean as little as
>losing the individual IC or
>some extra penalty. I think this "report" is describing the traditional EP2 "Gross Food Challenge" for immunity. The EP2 Immunity Challenge has been the same in each of the three previous Survivor shows, and no good reason to change now. In Episode 2 one tribe has 7 members, the other "eight players remaining". Three members of the eight player tribe refused to eat the stinky raw marinated fish and they were "penalized"...their tribe lost immunity and would have to go to tribal council. If the EP2 IC is the "eat smelly raw fish" challenge then we have a pretty good spoiler that the tribe that wins the first IC loses the second (7-7 going into EP3). If the "smelly fish don't show up in EP2 then we have a pretty good spoiler for EP8, three of the squeemish types don't win immunity in EP8?
>As always with this stuff, we
>shall see. Wow, I
>just realized this post got
>so long it will scare
>Shakes.
Hope we see more of the old spinning head during S4.
OFG, thanks for all your early leg work on S4. It looks like it will be an interesting season...
 Krautboy
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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01-24-02, 03:07 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: Some Bits and Pieces So Far" |
Krautboy,
I always enjoy your thorough thinking so much. That was a great analysis of the process. As I understand it, Polynesians and Hawaiians have a common tradition of loving to "talk story," and I have spent enough time in Hawaii to experience that love of tale-telling. You are right that no one will want to keep a secret when they have a good story to tell to curious people. But they will probably embellish a little. I think the reports about the possible switch time and the move to the third valley are NOT a confused timeline with the merge as you speculate: >>These "reports" probably came from laborers and other local workers unfamiliar with the game. The report of "...ONE tribe left its valley and relocated to another after the 5th boot...", could have been from someone who observed "the swap" and considered it a "gross change in the rules" as they understood them (before S3, EP5...when "the game changed forever".) AGREED >>The "tribe" that "left its valley" could have been the members of one tribe swapping with another, which in S4 may happen during or after EP5 ("after the 5th boot"). The tribe "moving to a third valley" is most likely an observation of the merge, but taken out of context and inserted into a confused timeline. The thing is, this move to the third valley was reported as a done deal in a Dec. 2 article, which refers to a time around the 5th boot. Anyway, it states that tribes are still living in two separate valleys, only one of the original locales is no longer used. There has been a move to an entirely new location, but not by everyone, so it cannot have been a merge. I agree there definitely could be a switch, probably is, behind this, but also a new location for roughly half of them (assuming the numbers equal). Here's a new twist speculation. The legal hassles caused Burnett to give up one locale rather than to give into inflated demands for money and improvements. So there are a number of ways you could shuffle it: 3 from tribe 1 go to the new valley, 3 stay. 3 from tribe 2 go to the new valley; 3 go to the camp of tribe 1. I don't know, but it could be interesting. "Survivor in Nuku Hiva: only 11 candidates left"
From Tahiti Presse (12/2/01) Survivor-Marquesas" in Nuku Hiva: five candidates eliminated According to people living in Taiohae, five contestants of the US hit televised show, "Survivor-Marquesas", which is in the process of filming in Nuku Hiva(Marquesas), have as of Dec 1, 2001, been eliminated. The preceding week, two competitors had already left their tribe. This week three others have rejoined them, and from hereon are held in secret in an unknown location. The rules of the game have been grossly changed this time for unknown reasons. A trusted Marquesean has said furthermore that the Survivor Tribal Council sits now every three days at Colette Bay. On the other hand, up to now, the two tribes, composed of 16 contestants, has been located at Hakaui and Hakatea. It is learned today that one of them finds themselves at Hakapaa. The second tribe remains at Hakaui."
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Krautboy 2750 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest"
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01-24-02, 11:44 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: New Twist Speculation..." |
>Here's a new twist speculation.
>The legal hassles caused Burnett
>to give up one locale
>rather than to give into
>inflated demands for money and
>improvements. So there are
>a number of ways you
>could shuffle it: 3
>from tribe 1 go to
>the new valley, 3 stay.
> 3 from tribe 2
>go to the new valley;
>3 go to the camp
>of tribe 1. I
>don't know, but it could
>be interesting. OFG, I like this idea. Your scenario seems very logical.
It incorporates the reports of legal hassles, the sudden move to a new valley, and "the swap/twist" that became permanent part of Survivor after last seasons evolution. I'm also glad we have an early test case that we can use to evaluate the accuracy of the Tahitipresse. If the EP2 IC is the "Gross Food Challenge" involving smelly, raw fish, then Tahitipresse has lost some credibity, but if the EP2 IC is something else, then we have to continue to assume the reports may be credible... Krautboy
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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01-28-02, 09:08 PM (EST)
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7. "Legal battles and locales" |
LAST EDITED ON 01-28-02 AT 09:16 PM (EST)Went and correlated the info on the legal battle with the possible swap.
Quote from TP above, for reference, dated 12/02, or the date of TC #7, but apparently referring back to prior week:
----------------
On the other hand, up to now, the two tribes, composed of 16 contestants, has been located at Hakaui and Hakatea. It is learned today that one of them finds themselves at Hakapaa. The second tribe remains at Hakaui." 1)Hakaui, where no move is involved, was NOT part of the lawsuit. 2) Hakatea, the valley from which a tribe was relocated, WAS part of the lawsuit. Two families wishing to control access to Hakatea asked the court to turn over the filmed footage! 3) The other area disputed in lawsuit was Collette Bay, TC and challenge area. This was settled. 4) Court judgment in favor of Burnett came down on Dec 5, so not until 3 days after the article reporting the tribal relocation.
It seems pretty obvious that the move from a disputed valley before the judgment came down was related to the lawsuit, especially given that the undisputed valley remained occupied. The merge camp is at Hakapaa--Taipivai on Dan Bollinger's map, on the eastern side of the island at the tip of a much deeper inlet. This is same location where the relocated tribe went. The gross change in rules mentioned may indicate that a switch was involved with the move, as I speculated above, but it seems likely that Burnett also responded to the legal problems with a change of plans. It's also possible that the switch-up occurred in Ep 5 (only possible ep when numbers might be equal) and the move in Ep 6, works better with Tahitipresse date.
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