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"Fire As Life, and as spoiler"
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Swami 5885 desperate attention whore postings
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01-20-02, 10:35 PM (EST)
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"Fire As Life, and as spoiler"
The 'fire is life' mantra, and the symbolism of snuffing a torch to expel a losing survivor has been integral to this show since S1. I do not see MB casually dropping or replacing the 'fire is life' dramatic theme. Indeed, in the preview photos we have seen in vidcaps by Bungler & on other sites, fire continues to be prominently shown & specifically mentioned. Yet MB has baldly stated that on Nuku Hiva survivors will be given no food, no water & no fire. How does this make sense?

There seems like one easy answer to me. When these previews began to air, filming in the Marquesas was already well underway. MB already knew when & how the tribes acquired fire. If both tribes had made fire for themselves by the first TC, then MB was free to trumpet the ominous words 'given no fire.' These words are tremendously inciting for people who follow the show, because we have seen the hardships inflicted on tribes that could not make fire. So we are amazed that MB would dare such an unforgiving thing! But it is not daring if they already have fire!

Having said they will not be given fire, I don't think he can let a losing tribe carry home 'free fire' in the form of the torches that were lit at TC, as he has in previous Survivor series. If he does that, well, you don't have to be a SurvivorBlows fanatic to recognize that as dishonest. I don't think MB would make that mistake.

So--I think we can conclude that in S4, for the first time, both tribes successfully make fire before the first TC.

Remember, the people of S4 were whisked away before the "twist", but not before they saw Boran drop like flies without water, & lose challenge after challenge. I think it's reasonable that several people chosen for the show made a point of figuring out how to creat a fire before they left for Nuku Hiva. I know I sure would.

Am I making a valid conclusion here?

Swami

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: Fire As Life, and as spoiler dabo 01-21-02 1
   RE: Fire As Life, and as spoiler The_Doc 01-21-02 2
       RE: Fire As Life, and as spoiler Krautboy 01-21-02 3
           RE: Water As Life Swami 01-22-02 7
               Water is Death dabo 01-22-02 8
 RE: Fire As Life, and as spoiler smiles 01-21-02 4
   RE: Fire As Life, and as spoiler lroy 01-21-02 5
       RE: Fire As Life, and as spoiler PepeLePew13 01-22-02 6
           RE: Fire As Life, and as spoiler TheWanderer 01-22-02 9
               RE: Fire As Life, and as spoiler DarkLotus 01-23-02 10
                   RE: Fire As Life, and as spoiler Weems 01-24-02 11

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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
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01-21-02, 00:34 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: Fire As Life, and as spoiler"
Yes, I had the same thought, that both tribes may have started fires on their own prior to the first challenge, in which case that challenge could be strictly for immunity, or possibly for immunity and matches as previously done. Traditionally, what the tribe that goes to the first tc receives, which gives them fire, is not the lit torches, but also matches (keeping the torches burning even throughout tribal council has sometimes been a problem). Honestly, you would think that by S3 the first thing anyone cast for Survivor would set out to learn would be as many methods of making fire as possible. Filming concluded in December in time for all the contestants to be home for Christmas, from what I understand.

"If all machines were to be annihilated at one moment, so that not a knife nor lever nor rag of clothing nor anything whatsoever were left to man but his bare body alone that he was born with, and if all knowledge of mechanical laws were taken from him so that he could make no more machines, and all machine-made food destroyed so that the race of man should be left as it were naked upon a desert island, we should become extinct in six weeks. A few miserable individuals might linger, but even these in a year or two would become worse than monkeys." (Samuel Butler, "Erewhon")

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The_Doc 15 desperate attention whore postings
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01-21-02, 02:38 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: Fire As Life, and as spoiler"
It was also thrown around on some forums that the "fire is life" mantra was discarded due to the location and Water is life ws added instead...I dont know the validity of this rumor...But it might be quite interesting to see this instead of the "Fire is Life"...although effective but also getting old...and MB hates for anything to get old. But it can also mean that both tribes were able to make fire with the magnifying glass that they are givin in the beginning.They receive this from what i hear.

The Doc hath spoken

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Krautboy 2750 desperate attention whore postings
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01-21-02, 11:03 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: Fire As Life, and as spoiler"
>It was also thrown around on
>some forums that the "fire
>is life" mantra was discarded
>due to the location and
>Water is life ws added
>instead...I dont know the validity
>of this rumor...

Doc: This was not really rumored, it was just pure speculation on my part. I was just trying to make the point that fire will play a much less important role in S4 than in previous survivors.

I do not believe that MB will eliminate the "torch snuffing" symbolism and I believe that both tribes will eventually have fire, but they will not NEED it for survival, only for comfort.

I also doubt Jeff would really say "Water is Life", eventhough it is true of life on a tropical Island...

Krautboy

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Swami 5885 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"

01-22-02, 09:12 AM (EST)
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7. "RE: Water As Life"
I don't get the whole 'Water is Life' theme possibility. Yes, all people everywhere need water to survive, but... On this fairly large island there seems to be sufficient water for scenic waterfalls, pools large enough to dive into, etc. I do not see a shortage of decent water, as on S3.

It also seems very logical that the water streams in this tropical paradise are formed like water streams everywhere, by collecting & draining off rainwater. Which means this water has dripped, oozed and flowed over the mountain/forest floor, gathering debris, molds, fungi, animal droppings, etc. before gathering into a pretty clean-looking stream. I think boiling will be recommended, and fire is still life. Didn't Frau Hexe already establish that boiling would be necessary on another thread?

Swami

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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
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01-22-02, 10:07 AM (EST)
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8. "Water is Death"
Going off on a tangent (I thought the "Water Is Life" post on the other thresd was semi-jest), and I do think boiling the water is going to be something the contestants are going to have to do -- One thing that concerns me is the abundance of water and the heat and probable high humidity of the setting for S4. Since these people are going to have no food provisions, they will have to spend a lot of time foraging and so on, which would mean conditions are optimum for such maladies as jungle rot. As well, the insect life in such places can be very opportunistic and even deadly. Perhaps this deserves a thresd of its own, but the hazards of this setting seem to me much more real than the predatory wildlife in a natural preserve where most likely local wardens were providing protection for everyone.

"If all machines were to be annihilated at one moment, so that not a knife nor lever nor rag of clothing nor anything whatsoever were left to man but his bare body alone that he was born with, and if all knowledge of mechanical laws were taken from him so that he could make no more machines, and all machine-made food destroyed so that the race of man should be left as it were naked upon a desert island, we should become extinct in six weeks. A few miserable individuals might linger, but even these in a year or two would become worse than monkeys." (Samuel Butler, "Erewhon")

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smiles 675 desperate attention whore postings
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01-21-02, 05:02 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Fire As Life, and as spoiler"
I don't think that it is surprising that the Survivors will not be given fire. Has anyone noticed that neither of the tribes realy needed to be given matches? On S2 and S3 the contestants had eyeglasses. Can't fire be made with eyeglasses? Isn't that what Rudy used to start the initial fire on S1? If so, why didn't the other contestants try that tactic? (Ethan and Elizabeth both wore glasses, but neither one of their tribes could start fires) I could be wrong, but I am almost certain that you can start a fire with eyeglasses depending on the perscription.


. . . Keep smiling

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lroy 536 desperate attention whore postings
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01-21-02, 06:17 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Fire As Life, and as spoiler"
LAST EDITED ON 01-21-02 AT 06:18 PM (EST)


From what I understand contestants with glasses were not given their glasses until after the first tribal council. They were allowed to wear their contact lens until then. I am assuming that was to make sure that no one had an upper hand. I even recall an interview with S3 Jesse in which she stated that the producers made sure her sunglasses didn't have a lens that could start a fire.

lroy

edited for: girl without spell check needs help

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PepeLePew13 26132 desperate attention whore postings
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01-22-02, 03:52 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: Fire As Life, and as spoiler"
It was B.B. in the first Survivor who snuck in a pair of glasses solely for the use of creating a fire and a rule was put into place for S2 that glasses (the types that can be used to start a fire, that is) could not be brought in until after a fire had been started.

I recall (stop me if I'm wrong here) Rodger asking for help to have someone read something from his Bible because he couldn't use his glasses at that point in time.

I'm in agreement with most of the people here that I think fire will be used more for comfort and warmth than for survival necessity (possibly for boiling water to kill parasites) -- but I don't see JiffyProbe coming up with "water is life" as fire is too ingrained as an integral theme of Survivor that they will continue to use fire as a rallying point in the first TC even if they don't need it urgently.

I think we're going to see a TC involving a trip through water carrying something and culminating in a climb up something to light a fire. We saw that in S1 and again in S2 (remember Bitchell climbing up to light the fire for an Ogakor win after Kucha doused their flame in the river?).


"It's just funny seeing people that are matched up, everyone has a partner now and everyone's happy. And boy, my camping trip just went to hell."
Frank Garrison, Dec. 13/01

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TheWanderer 267 desperate attention whore postings
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01-22-02, 01:43 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Fire As Life, and as spoiler"
Pepe...
As I've said all along, I agree tha they're going to keep the "fire is life" tag line. What would they do if they changed the line to "water is life"? Instead of snuffing out the torch, would they pour a bucket of ice water on the ousted castaways head?
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DarkLotus 344 desperate attention whore postings
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01-23-02, 08:23 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: Fire As Life, and as spoiler"

>Instead of snuffing out the
>torch, would they pour a
>bucket of ice water on
>the ousted castaways head?

Sounds good to me. They should've tried this with some of the S3 contestants.

- Dark Lotus

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Weems 3 desperate attention whore postings
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01-24-02, 12:56 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Fire As Life, and as spoiler"
Maybe they don't get any fire because there is an active volcano on the island. In order to get to the lava though, you have to "Skupin" on your team mates.

In terms of survival in the wilderness, you can last a lot longer without fire than without water. I like the saying "water is life" better.

Try to tell Mike Skupin that "fire is life".


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