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Blueville 115 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 01-04-02, 09:47 AM (EST) "Who's Lying.......If anybody" I think Teresa fulfilled her master manipulator role last night while talking to Lex and Kim J. before the TC. Two issues arose as a result of their conversation, however. Was Teresa lying when she implied, and later basically stated, that Tom told her to be cautious of Lex, hence her vote? Or did MB edit out Teresa and Tom's conversation? Teresa had previously stated, I believe in the form of a confessional, that she had voted for Lex because of an agreement she had made with Clarence. I think the point of the agreement was that Clarence didn't want her to vote for him in case he could rally further support elsewhere. I also think she decided that if she wasn't going to vote for Clarence, she might as well vote for whomever he voted for. Last night she was trying to save her butt. So in admitting that she had voted for Lex, did she lie about the reasoning, or did MB not show us the conversation with Tom? The second issue is how to interpret Lex's reaction. Either he believed her and decided he could vote her off now and still have enough pull to get Tom next, or he's working on an amateur acting career, acted like he believed her, then walked away and voted her out. Do you think Lex really has a GUT issue with Tom now? Blue   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: Who's Lying.......If anybody lionsroar 01-04-02 1    RE: Who's Lying.......If anybody PepeLePew13 01-04-02 4        RE: Who's Lying.......If anybody Blueville 01-04-02 6            RE: Who's Lying.......If anybody gemstone 01-05-02 13    RE: Who's Lying.......If anybody runningchicken 01-04-02 7  RE: Who's Lying.......If anybody zzz 01-04-02 2    RE: Who's Lying.......If anybody dabo 01-04-02 3        RE: Who's Lying.......If anybody zzz 01-04-02 5        RE: Who's Lying.......If anybody gemstone 01-05-02 14        RE: Who's Lying.......If anybody justme99 01-05-02 17    RE: Who's Lying.......If anybody red 01-04-02 8        another comment weltek 01-04-02 9            RE: another comment Bebo 01-04-02 10                RE: another comment Celticbhoyca 01-05-02 11                    comments and welcome dangerkitty 01-05-02 12                        "Swore on their sons" Krautboy 01-05-02 15                            RE: "Swore on their sons" gemstone 01-05-02 16  RE: Who's Lying.......If anybody vulcan 01-06-02 18  NOBODY was lying heymikey 01-06-02 19

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lionsroar 157 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 01-04-02, 09:58 AM (EST) 1. "RE: Who's Lying.......If anybody" OK....I started the same thought pattern last night about Teresa and Kelly's master manipulator comment. She definitely fulfilled that title, but my thoughts then went to..who gets booted next to share the manipulation info with Kelly. If Tom gets the boot it makes sense that Kelly would learn about the manipulation. If thonggranny gets the boot would she share the info? I mean after all she was involved in it too. I don't think Lex is an option and Ethan really doesn't talk much gossip.   Top

PepeLePew13 26134 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-04-02, 10:25 AM (EST) 4. "RE: Who's Lying.......If anybody" Thanks for adding more ammo to further my opinion that Tom goes first in the final four. I see Tom being incapable of thinking first and speaking second, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he and Kelly have a little conversation and it slips out what happened between Lex and Teresa using his name. Tom would only be there in Loser Lodge for one or two days but it only takes 15 mins to have a chat and spill the beans. Add to that the potential spoiler of Tom's sister saying he finished fourth (the sister has been proven correct on another tidbit she revealed about the show to come so she appears genuine)... and the case for Tom as the next bootee grows stronger. I think Lex is perfectly capable of voting against Tom if it's absolutely needed in his vision of going all the way, but if he knows that Ethan and MamaKim will vote for Tom then he could possibly get away with not having to vote for Tom, knowing he loses in a tiebreak against Kim or Ethan -- without "going against his word voting against Tom." "It's just funny seeing people that are matched up, everyone has a partner now and everyone's happy. And boy, my camping trip just went to hell." Frank Garrison, Dec. 13/01   Top

Blueville 115 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 01-04-02, 01:40 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Who's Lying.......If anybody" >I see Tom being incapable of thinking first >and speaking second, it wouldn't >surprise me one bit if >he and Kelly have a >little conversation and it slips >out what happened between Lex >and Teresa using his name. At this point, Tom doesn't know about Lex and Teresa's conversation. Does he? But Teresa DOES, and she could have told everybody, now that she is at Loser Lodge.   Top

gemstone 70 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 01-05-02, 06:19 PM (EST) 13. "RE: Who's Lying.......If anybody" "At this point, Tom doesn't know about Lex and Teresa's conversation. Does he?" Yes he does according to Teresa'a statement. "Tom requested that I vote for him on the walk to TC. He thought it might take some tension off the others if they thought that she voted for him like she was mad at him or something. Like maybe that would divert attention that him and I had something going. He thought it could only help him down the road."   Top

runningchicken 15 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 01-04-02, 02:14 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Who's Lying.......If anybody" I think it's likely that Lex would tell Kelly about this conversation when he gets booted in order to explain his actions smooth things over w/ her. To show her that he was manipulated by Teresa all along. I think he'll go next. Unless of course he keeps winning.   Top

zzz 703 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 01-04-02, 10:05 AM (EST) 2. "RE: Who's Lying.......If anybody" One important point that should be addressed is that in the same conversation, I believe that KimJ told Lex that Tom was trying to get others to "do Tom's dirty work" and vote off Lex while Tom stays "loyal" to Lex. This information, if true, would add credibility to Teresa's statement. Even if not true, the two of them telling Lex basically the same thing probably convinced Lex they were telling the truth. I think, however, that Lex basicically told Teresa why he was not going to vote against Tom. According to the closed caption (thank you AyaK), Lex had the following conversation: >> Tom wants Lex off, but he says I can't vote him so he wants everybody else to do the dirty work for him, so he still looks like the good guy. >> How many people on the jury know that side of him? Nobody. >> No. >> That's a problem. That's why I, that's why I, I have a hard time going up against him. I appreciate your telling me. >> Thanks for telling me. Thus, Lex would not vote off Tom at that point because he did not think it would sit well with the jury. Lex is always playing an end-game. However, unless Lex either get immunity or can convince both Ethan and KimJ to vote off Tom, Lex could be in trouble because if Tom and Ethan vote for Lex and Lex and KimJ vote for Tom because Lex loses to Tom in the tie break.   Top

dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-04-02, 10:20 AM (EST) 3. "RE: Who's Lying.......If anybody" >>> Tom wants Lex off, but he says I can't vote him so he wants everybody else to do the dirty work for him, so he still looks like the good guy. > >>> How many people on the jury know that side of him? Nobody. > Well, that's incongruous, others on the jury would have to know that side of him don't you think? I wouldn't be surprised if Tom had been trying to direct votes onto Lex; after the three votes he picked up in New Samburu, it would be smart strategy to direct votes onto someone else if he could. Why Lex has acted like a vote magnet (except for winning immunity whenever possible) is the real mystery. "If all machines were to be annihilated at one moment, so that not a knife nor lever nor rag of clothing nor anything whatsoever were left to man but his bare body alone that he was born with, and if all knowledge of mechanical laws were taken from him so that he could make no more machines, and all machine-made food destroyed so that the race of man should be left as it were naked upon a desert island, we should become extinct in six weeks. A few miserable individuals might linger, but even these in a year or two would become worse than monkeys." (Samuel Butler, "Erewhon")   Top

zzz 703 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 01-04-02, 10:28 AM (EST) 5. "RE: Who's Lying.......If anybody" You are probably correct--if Tom had been trying to direct votes toward Lex, others on the jury probably would know about it. Thus, either Lex did not think the issue through entirely or he wanted a good excuse to tell Teresa why he was voting her off anyway. I don't think Lex wanted to give Teresa a chance to get any further because she would be so dangerous in the finals if she got there somehow. Lex would assume that against Teresa, she would get votes from Kelly, Brandon, KimP and Frank--enough to win without even considering whether KimJ, Tom or Ethan would vote for her. Even if Tom betrayed Lex, Lex wanted Teresa gone and needed a good reason to tell her to preserve the chance of getting her vote on the jury.   Top

gemstone 70 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 01-05-02, 06:23 PM (EST) 14. "RE: Who's Lying.......If anybody" "Why Lex has acted like a vote magnet (except for winning immunity whenever possible) is the real mystery." From Teresa: Tom did tell her to "Watch out for Lex." like she said. She knew Lex was the leader of Boran when she asked Kimj who were they voting for (Clarence) and Kim j said "I don't know, we haven't gotten the word from Lex yet." This is why she kept trying to boot him because he was obviously the leader of Boran and with him gone, the Boran alliance may weaken.   Top

justme99 9 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 01-05-02, 11:31 PM (EST) 17. "RE: Who's Lying.......If anybody" Tom was mad at Lex for saying something that let the Samburus know that neither he, Kelly or Tom had any votes against them. This prompted the Original Samburu's to target Tom in the hopes that either Brandon or Kim could beat him in a tie breaker. Tom was really upset with Lex afterwards. This was also the reason Lex made him the Uber Spoon.   Top

red 140 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 01-04-02, 02:27 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Who's Lying.......If anybody" >One important point that should be >addressed is that in the >same conversation, I believe that >KimJ told Lex that Tom >was trying to get others >to "do Tom's dirty work" >and vote off Lex while >Tom stays "loyal" to Lex. > This information, if true, >would add credibility to Teresa's >statement. Actually, I think KimJ's statement is probably correct while Teresa's is a lie. Teresa stated clearly that which everyone on the board knew - she voted for Lex because she told Clarence she wouldn't vote for him. End of story. The thought that Tom would make comments about Lex at that stage in the game seems completely ridiculous. Now, after the Lex/Brandon fiasco, Tom has been singing a different tune. Its not a stretch that what he's said repeatedly on the show has been picked up by KimJ and was enough for her to pitch in about Tom's statements. I can see in his anger about how "me and him's marriage ain't so strong" he may have commented he'd be happy if others voted Lex out. Whether KimJ thought he genuinely meant it may be a whole other story. I do think however, that when Teresa told KimJ last week she thought she could get Tom's vote against Lex, Tom really had let her believe that at that point. I think its possilbe Tom has been rallying for Lex votes recently - but not right at the merge. However, >unless Lex either get immunity You know, I used to think Ethan was throwing the immunity challenges, but he isn't. Lex really is the guy to beat. >or can convince both Ethan >and KimJ to vote off >Tom, or just KimJ - if he has immunity he doesn't even need Ethan's vote. By the way, my estimation of KimJ did go up this episode. I still don't think she can nor deserves to win. But she has played it smart enough to easily get number three and possibly number two. She's guaranteed Lex or Tom go before her and is probably anticipating herself and Ethan as final two.   Top

weltek 16936 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-04-02, 03:24 PM (EST) 9. "another comment" Kim J has a free ticket into the final two, the way I see it. Ethan wants Lex gone (obvious Lex could Immunity himself into the finals). Then I say he'd pick Kim over Tom. Tom is obviously well liked by the jury and I think Ethan has about had it up to here with him. He'd feel good about bringing Kim J and would likely win over her. Tom wants Lex gone due to the free ride to the finals if he wins immunity. He's been deflecting votes to Lex the whole 2nd half of the show for a reason, he doesn't really like him that much. Tom likes Ethan, but knows he's too darn likeable with the jury. Tom is already thinking about this, I believe. Lex doesn't trust Tom and admits Tom is loved by the jury. Lex likes Ethan, but he'd be the biggest immunity threat in the last challenge AND he's too likeable. Kim J just wins a spot by default the way I see it. All of them can say that they picked her because she "stayed true" to the alliance, blah, blah and make themselves be the good guy for making an "honerable" decision.   Top

Bebo 21083 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-04-02, 11:44 PM (EST) 10. "RE: another comment" >Kim J just wins a spot >by default the way I >see it. All of >them can say that they >picked her because she "stayed >true" to the alliance, blah, >blah and make themselves be >the good guy for making >an "honerable" decision. But would it be seen as the honorable decision? They swore on their sons to stick together until the end. If at the crucial moment, one of them backed out, that would not be seen as honorable. It would also provide the opportunity for an uncomfortable jury question by one (or both) of the ones jilted. I don't think it would rank up there with the "rat and the snake" speech, but there would be a good chance to make the finalist squirm by asking about honor and keeping your word.   Top

Celticbhoyca 1 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 01-05-02, 09:57 AM (EST) 11. "RE: another comment" Did anyone else notice in the conversation KimJ had with Ethan regarding voting Lex off, that she said if he wasn't going to vote for Lex or Tom this time, he was going to have to vote for one of them at next TC, to which Ethan agreed. Sure looked to me like Ethan and KimJ will vote together, which would mean goodbye Tom if Lex wins immunity.   Top

dangerkitty 1913 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 01-05-02, 02:28 PM (EST) 12. "comments and welcome" Welcome, Celtic! (May I call you "Celtic"?). Yes, I noticed that too. It could also mean that MK *assumes* that Ethan won't vote for her. Ethan has a way of keeping a very guarded look on his face when he is presented with strategy and options. I remember that moment when MK was bombarding him about Lex, I could see the wheels turning for sure. Now, it could be true, he will vote off one of the boys. MK seems sure that the 3 guys really don't want it to come down to them, and she may have gotten that from Ethan. And we clearly got to hear some of Ethan's thoughts on Lex, he does not seem to want Lex to win now. Which suggests that he would not want Lex to even make Final 2, and if Lex doesn't win the next IC, it may be the only chance to get him out. I was just watching some CBS site video, and a couple of notes: Ep 9, when Brandon was voted out: Ethan talks about trust. He mentions the foursome specifically, and whenever he names names, he lists Tom first, then MamaKim. Never Kim first. He's talking about the Lex/Brandon thing, and that the three others don't trust Brandon. Tom talks about the vote. He names names once, and he says MamaKim first, then Ethan. He also says that "everybody" thinks they are voting out Frank, but they're not, it's Brandon. He doesn't know who Lex and Brandon are voting for, probably Frank. Then he says that the whole thing could turn and he, Tom, could get the votes and then he'd be gone since he has the most votes. Which suggests two things to me: One, Lex did NOT know what was happening, it wasn't that he was "given permission" to vote Frank while knowing Brandon was being booted. Two, Tom considered it possible that Lex would vote against Tom at that point. That's not completely clear, not sure who he thought would vote for him, but its one option. Both of those suggestions indicate less than a "swore on their sons" bond between Tom and Lex. It seems whenever we question their loyalty to one another, that point comes up. It just seems like there is so much evidence to the contrary now, can we give that one staying power or not? dangerkitty   Top

Krautboy 2750 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 01-05-02, 09:30 PM (EST) 15. ""Swore on their sons"" LAST EDITED ON 01-05-02 AT 09:34 PM (EST) Both of >those suggestions indicate less than >a "swore on their sons" >bond between Tom and Lex. > It seems whenever we >question their loyalty to one >another, that point comes up. >It just seems like there >is so much evidence to >the contrary now, can we >give that one staying power >or not? Dangerkitty, It also depends on the details of their agreement. Did they agree not to vote for each other until they reached the final 4, Final 3, or never? Whatever they agreed to, I believe their love for their sons is undeniable and whatever agreement or promise they made, they will stick to it... But as we've seen, that doesn't stop Tom or Lex from asking someone else to do their bidding for them... Lex told Tom to go ahead and vote out Brandon, eventhough he wouldn't allow himself to, because he made a promise to Brandon. Tom may have told Teresa to vote for Lex, eventhough he couldn't because he made a promise to Lex and "swore on his son." Krautboy   Top

gemstone 70 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 01-05-02, 10:09 PM (EST) 16. "RE: "Swore on their sons"" There has to be a F3 agreement between the 3 guys otherwise Tom and Lex (especially) are in trouble next TC and would have done something about it. Both can't win immunity. Kim j winning IC could be a big problem for Tom and Lex (especially).   Top

vulcan 56 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 01-06-02, 04:06 PM (EST) 18. "RE: Who's Lying.......If anybody" i think she told the truth and it appears that toms plan all along was to take lex int the final two with him so he makes little suggestions here and there making himself look like the good guy and lex like the bad guy a pretty good plan this wpuld also explain at the begining why he wouuld go along with lex like he did   Top

heymikey 238 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 01-06-02, 08:57 PM (EST) 19. "NOBODY was lying" Here is a highlight from Teresa's chat on CBS On last night's episode, you hinted that Tom said for Lex to watch out for him...Did Tom really say that or were you just trying to get him voted off so that you could make it further in the game? - Actually Tom did tell me that the first day of the merge. And then he told me that all along, that he didn't want to be the one to vote him out or vote against him.   Top

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