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Krautboy 2750 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 12-27-01, 03:38 AM (EST) "EP13 Title...The Final Four: No Regrets" The Title for EP13 IS "The Final Four: No Regrets". First impression is that it sounds like the four Original Boran stick together to the final 4. No matter what happens after that they have "no regrets". Ethan, Lex, Tom and KimJ formed an alliance early on and stuck to it to the final 4. That was their goal, they stuck to their plan, they kept their word to each other, no matter who wins now, they have no regrets... So, following that logic backwards, the title of EP12 is "Truth Be Told". This is then most likely Teresa telling the truth about her vote for Lex after she realizes her time is up... That in turn, by process of elimination, would lead me to conclude that KimP is the one who gets voted off this week... Krautboy   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: EP13 Title...The Final Four: No... Outfrontgirl 12-27-01 1  A Question zzz 12-27-01 2  Remember S2? AyaK 12-27-01 3    RE: Remember S2? Bungler 12-27-01 4  RE: EP13 Title...The Final Four: No... NorthOfBoston 12-27-01 5  Did Ep 11 foreshadow? dangerkitty 12-28-01 6    RE: Did Ep 11 foreshadow? TheWanderer 12-28-01 7  RE: EP13 Title...The Final Four: No... dangerkitty 12-29-01 8    RE: EP13 Title...The Final Four: No... gemstone 12-29-01 9  RE: EP13 Title...The Final Four: No... Swami 12-29-01 10    What Evidence we have on the Boran ... Outfrontgirl 12-29-01 11        Additions to OFG's Evidence of Bora... Swami 12-30-01 15    Swore on Their Sons... Krautboy 12-29-01 12        RE: Swore on Their Sons... PepeLePew13 01-02-02 19            RE: Swore on Their Sons... Swami 01-02-02 20    RE: EP13 Title...The Final Four: No... gemstone 12-30-01 13        RE: EP13 Title...The Final Four: No... Swami 12-30-01 14        RE: EP13 Title...The Final Four: No... Loree 12-31-01 16            The Final Four: No Regrets for voti... drich61 12-31-01 17                RE: The Final Four: No Regrets for ... Loree 01-01-02 18                    RE: The Final Four: No Regrets for ... dabo 01-02-02 21  An Early Use of No Regrets Outfrontgirl 01-02-02 22  More on the Early Alliance Conversa... Outfrontgirl 01-03-02 23

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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-27-01, 04:23 AM (EST) 1. "RE: EP13 Title...The Final Four: No Regrets" LAST EDITED ON 12-27-01 AT 04:26 AM (EST) Krautboy thanks! Just as I was turning in for the night, this pops up from a fellow Left Coaster... Your interpretation of the title makes good sense to me, rings very plausible. Another possibility occurs to me--that 3 of the Old Boran dumped Lex and kept Teresa, and have no regrets about the switch. There was a S. Insider interview with Teresa in Old Samburu after Carl was booted and Linda made such an ass of herself with Lindsey and the hug (Ep.4, "Teresa is Devastated.") Halfway through, Teresa starts talking about how many times she went over in her mind, "What if? What if?" she had allied with the "younger people." She concludes that she just doesn't feel comfortable with their talk (about partying, their language)--essentially, that she has no regrets over her choice. Probably that connection is too thin, but I could also see Teresa saying she had No Regrets about how she played the game. Just a thought. After voting against Teresa 4 times, wrongly, I can't shake the feeling she slips into the Final 4. I also think you are right that Truth Be Told seems to point to Lex still being in the game (but We Are Family went on without Brandon, so who knows?). For one thing, I think Lex has said the phrase "Truth Be Told" in his confesionals or impassioned discussions with people--that it's a Lexism. (But maybe Ethan says it too.) Does anyone remember one or more players saying this exact phrase?   Top

zzz 703 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 12-27-01, 11:00 AM (EST) 2. "A Question" If CBS is able to notify TV Guide and other media outlets that Jan. 10 (i.e., E13) will be the final episode, why can't CBS tell its own web designers that there will only be 13 and not 14 episodes? See http://www.cbs.com/primetime/survivor3/show/tcvh.shtml This chart should look like the one use for S1 where there was 13-1 and 13-2 for the last two people voted off before the final vote. See http://www.cbs.com/primetime/survivor/show/voting_index.shtml I realize that the website might not be CBS's first priority, but if they are going to post things on their official website, CBS should use a little more effort to be accurate. The repeated mistakes on this site should cause CBS embarrassment, but they seem to be simply shameless.   Top

AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-27-01, 12:12 PM (EST) 3. "Remember S2?" When I hear "No Regrets", I get a very different mental image that relates to the final jury. The most memorable moment of the final jury in S2 was Jerri's question to Colby about whether he regretted anything that he did during the course of the game. Or, as shakes put it in the summary from S2/E14: ************************** Let’s just skip to the moment we’ve all been waiting for since Episode #9, the wrath of Scerri. Ohh, this is gonna be good, its gonna make Soozin’s speech look like the greeting you get from the 85 year old man who stands in the doorway at Wal-Mart. Here she comes, and she looks pissed! Here she goes......oh I can’t wait to see the fireworks.... ”Do you guys feel bad for screwing me over?” That’s it????!!??? That’s the best you can come up?? This show sucks, but BT wins yet another round by turning it around and taking a shot at Scerri for the whole Jerky-gate......The Colbster also takes a shot at Scerri by apologizing for everything EXCEPT screwing her over. ************************** As I remember the exact wording (without shakes' flourishes), Jerri specifically asked Colby if he had any regrets about anything else he'd done, and Colby replied (while staring straight at her), "No regrets." If my memory isn't too flawed, then this title would seem to me to be a clear reference to Colby's comment. Why it would be the title, though, isn't as obvious.   Top

Bungler 497 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 12-27-01, 04:47 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Remember S2?" Another spin on the "no regrets" theorizing could be in direct relation to Mama. As of this moment (3+ hours before Ep 12's "We Are Family"), we don't know if she'll suddenly switch sides to an all-female alliance, something that she probably wouldn't have entertained just a few days earlier in the game (as evidence, I point to her comments to Kelly about not liking how certain people were playing the game). Say she switches in Ep 12 to an all-female alliance because she realizes she's nothing more than a fourth wheel in the LET alliance. She'll get no better than 4th place with them, unless there's some hidden alliance we're not seeing yet. Then we have next week's "Truth Be Told" -- which could relate to Teresa revealing the truth about her vote for Lex (it could be something else though). Then we get into the "No Regrets" final four. If the women have aligned and started pagonging the men, that means it's 3 women to 1 man in the final four. "No Regrets" could be Mama's comment in regards to deciding to switch. She has no regrets because she's probably made it (or will make it) farther in the game than she would have if she'd stuck with LET.   Top

NorthOfBoston 158 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 12-27-01, 06:45 PM (EST) 5. "RE: EP13 Title...The Final Four: No Regrets" LAST EDITED ON 12-28-01 AT 09:28 AM (EST) (posted before episode 11) Well... Let's see, really everyone but Ethan and Tom had to make difficult decisions: There's the issue with Teresa as mentioned above by Outfrontgirl re: her decision not to align with the younger crowd. But she also voted against Frank, her central ally. AND she kept her promise to Clarence and voted against Lex, even though it cost her a Kelly alliance that might have kept the strain off OS for a few episodes. I think that the title best fits Teresa overall, so it logically follows that she is in the final four. Lex has the most to regret, but somehow I don't think he'll have regretted any of it at that point (August). I'd like the title NOT to fit Lex, as I hope he is gone before then, but alas. . . And of course we'll have to see what Kim Johnson does this episode. Does she stick with OB? Perhaps she'll regret that. Does she betray them? If she does, and the final four is all OB, she'll probably regret it. All in all, I think the title refers to a TC Jeffy-probe interview after the traditional "You've been here for 50000 days. . . . yadda yadda. . . what have you learned? . . . Any regrets?" Perhaps the answer will lend to the suspense of the TC voting. edited to add PS after episode 11- PS: Strike original comment on Ethan and Tom. Now that episode 11 is over, I think we now have a preview of what L/E/T will have to ponder in episode 12; I think E's (or T's) decision on whether to turn on Lex or not is possibly a regrettable one.   Top

dangerkitty 1913 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 12-28-01, 10:41 AM (EST) 6. "Did Ep 11 foreshadow?" In Ep 11, Probst asked "are you proud of how you have played" or whatever. TOM gave his answer and used the phrase "No regrets". So how does that relate to the Ep 13 title? Also, to comment on a couple of other remarks they made that stick with me: LilKim just said she had never camped before, so it was great she had made it this long. MK said she played the game the same way she runs her life (oooh, lots of bashing material there! ). She certainly implied "no regrets" also. Lex, the psycho idiot, said whatever he said, and then made reference to the "walk of shame" - at which point the jury entered the early stages of becoming an Angry Mob. What a dumbass. Anyway, having that exact quote from Tom just seems pertinent to me. dangerkitty   Top

TheWanderer 267 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 12-28-01, 11:39 AM (EST) 7. "RE: Did Ep 11 foreshadow?" dangerkitty, You're right! I picked up on those same comments as well. When MK said sheplayed the game as she runs her life, my stomach turned! Why on earth they booted KimP over Teresa, I can't understand. KimP would have readily voted for Lex next time upon direction of MK, Tom, or Ethan. Based on Lex's tirade in the previews for the next episode, I say Teresa goes. Ehtan, MK and Tom may not be happy with Lex, however, barring immunity, Teresa will get "pagonged". Lex will be in the F4, yet IMHO, gets booted. He'll lose any tie vote as he now has 8 votes against him. That'll leave Ethan, MK and Tom in the F3. I look for Tom or MK to pull a "Rich" move and take a chance in having Ethan pull them into an F2.   Top

dangerkitty 1913 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 12-29-01, 05:24 PM (EST) 8. "RE: EP13 Title...The Final Four: No Regrets" More thoughts on the Tom "No regrets" line in Ep 11 TC: I don't remember (or couldn't understand) what all he said, I guess it was about honor and whatnot. We know that he still considers Lex disloyal and wrong about the Brandon thing, and we know how Tom holds a grudge and likes to send a message from all the way back to the Clarence/beans sequence. So here is a scenario that ties all that it and fits the Ep 13 title: Final 3 is Tom, Lex, Ethan. Tom wins IC (hey, every dog has his day!). Tom boots Lex and keeps Ethan, even though he has a better chance of winning against Lex. He has no regrets, and he gets to maintain his honor of doing the right thing, and have the last word in the Lex betrayal. And hell, he has a better chance than anyone of beating Ethan in the finals, anyway! We have seen a publicity photo of Ethan and Tom together. You could argue that this precludes them being the Final 2; you could also argue the MB gets a laugh out of saying "Hey! You saw the Final 2 together already, and still didn't know!" Finally, Ethan mentioned that he and Tom are like "brothers". This feels more like the bond that makes sense than he and MK. MB may be taking advantage of the Colby/Tina bond to mislead us with that one. And if I'm right, it'll be about the first time. dangerkitty   Top

gemstone 70 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 12-29-01, 09:26 PM (EST) 9. "RE: EP13 Title...The Final Four: No Regrets" "No regrets" This can only mean someone(s) turned on the Boran alliance and they (all) have "No regrets". The only thing I think of that fits this description would be Ethan being booted or some may argue Tom. Teresa said there is nothing wrong with Ethan and some have mentioned deserving and nice are who they want to be around.   Top

Swami 5885 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-29-01, 09:32 PM (EST) 10. "RE: EP13 Title...The Final Four: No Regrets" >Ethan, Lex, Tom and >KimJ formed an alliance early >on and stuck to it >to the final 4. That >was their goal, they stuck >to their plan, they kept >their word to each other, >no matter who wins now, >they have no regrets... This early alliance is so crucial, and as many have pointed out on this board, MB showed us almost nothing about its formation. Apart from Tom once saying he had "swore on his son" he would never vote for Lex, we know so little. I see L/E/T as the primary alliance, with mamaKim along for the ride, so the following comments are mostly on the L/E/T alliance Lex, Ethan & Tom are very different from each other. They come from extremely different backgrounds. Yet they found common ground solid enough to build a very stable alliance. What might that common ground might be? I think these three guys somehow focused on, agreed on and shook on that powerful and timeless theme of competition among equals--May The Best Man Win. If they have a mutually respectful 'May The Best Man Win' alliance, they can go into the finals without having to worry (at least not much!) about backstabbing from each other. They are playing for the million $$$, yes, but honor to each other is a stronger driving force. Winning is not everything; playing with honor--to win if you can--is everything. These guys are not going to backstab each other to leverage themselves into a better position, gamewise. L & T swore on their sons, and we know from Ep11 RC how much these two guys cherish their sons. They have passed up several opportunites to screw over one of their alliance partners and advance themselves--and they don't do it! Even when it seems so logical from the winning-is-everything point of view. We have seen Teresa try & try to turn one the alliance--but we see this as TBird talking to MK about it, not TB talking to E, or L or Tom. Is that because MB doesn't want us to know how unshakeable this alliance is? We have seen Lex talking to the camera & saying (I paraphrase, can't remember his exact words) 'if he is going to screw me I'll cut his head off". When I watched this, it sounded to me like Lex was responding to a question from MB on the order of what 'would you do if E screwed you over?' Tom sometimes complains of being unsure of Lex, but he has never acted on it to his own advantage. Nor has Lex, or Ethan. If you accept a May the Best Man Win philosophy is what drives the L/E/T alliance, what does this mean for the game? Well, unless they win immunity, Teresa (Pagong!) or MK (if Teresa wins) are gone. (Teresa may be wilely enough to make L/E/T distrust MK somehow, and advance in her place. I don't know) But one of the women is gone. Whoever wins immunity in the F3 will pick whoever came in 2nd to go with them before the jury. And may the best man win. There is honor in this world, and I know & have known people who would make a May the Best Man Win alliance as I have described. Swami   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-29-01, 10:27 PM (EST) 11. "What Evidence we have on the Boran Alliance(s)" Very well expressed, Swami. I like the way people are shaking me out of the rut I was getting into thinking the rest was predictable. It hasn't been up to now... We have a LITTLE into on the origins of the alliance. We saw Lex approach Ethan very early on, Ep 2? Not sure. We have Ethan expressing hesitation to Lex and a confessional about paranoia. We saw MamaKim wondering if Lex was trying to play both ends against the middle. We have Kelly saying post boot almost right away Lex approached her for a Final 4 (another interview says Final 3) alliance. The 4 being L-E-K-MK, NOT Tom. We have an early Insider where MamaKim talks about her "understanding" with a core of 4, maybe 3, Boran, who are on the same mental wavelength, with a 5th Boran who thinks they're in the loop but not really. I took this to mean Tom, who was not seen as the mental equal at that time. She doesn't name names except to say that Clarence is not in the alliance, but on the fringe. It appears Ethan is the one in doubt of the 4 core Boran, not because uninvited. She says he is reluctant to commit or trust. Later, in Samburu, Lex says to Kelly and Tom that they're only some Immunity challenges away from a final 4. There were 3 of them there, so one had to be back in Old Boran. Now Kelly has told us she and MamaKim had a suballiance, and Tom must have assumed that Ethan was the fourth, and Kelly knew Ethan was in the Final 4 alliance with her... It looks to me like Lex was either playing Tom or Kelly or planning on dumping Kim when he said that. Well, he did dump Kelly, but nevertheless, at one time he made a Final 3 or 4 alliance with her and MamaKim. Therefore the Tom, Ethan, Lex pact must have been made separately, if it exists and excludes MamaKim. Evidence of Ethan's bond to the boys, is his "my boys are back" and "my two closest friends are gone" comment, re' the merge and the switch. We now know Kelly wasn't one of his two closest friends. Looks like Lex has been working both sides from the beginning--an alliance of L-E-T and an alliance with MK, Kelly, and Ethan. "Truth Be Told" may have revealed that by Ep 14. Lastly, we have no hard evidence that Ethan and Kim have a Colby/Tina type hidden understanding, although a) they were left alone in Boran by the switch b) they high fived when paired up for obstacle RC, even though that was kiss of death for Ethan winning (the Tina/Colby hug was one instance giving away their bond) c) Kim went to Ethan when Teresa approached her. Opposing the secret alliance idea is that MB may be counting on us to assume he hid a second such alliance (Precedent). Pro such an alliance being hidden is that he wants to try to surprise us again and this time the other ally (the Son) will win. This post is mostly about our evidence on the alliance bonds in the last 4 Boran. The "No Regrets" is doubtless a reiteration of the Ep 11 question in Tribal Council, as in "Still No Regrets?" "No regrets." It may well have more than one meaning, and the episode may start out with everyone feeling good about their choice in TC the night before. If I have left out any major evidence on the Boran loyalties(and I can't imagine I covered it all), I would love to have it laid out in one place here.   Top

Swami 5885 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-30-01, 09:37 PM (EST) 15. "Additions to OFG's Evidence of Boran Alliance(s) list" OFG, here are few more conversations I remember, which could be added to your list. Tom says (in confessional) that his marriage to Lex is still there--maybe shakey but still there. (Acknowledgment of Tom & Lex alliance) MamaKim says (in confessional or to TBird, can't remember which) that Lex, Ethan & Tom say they want to go to the end together, but she (MK) thinks they are not that sure of each other. (Acknowledgement of 3-way alliance. She does not include herself here, if I recall correctly) Lex assures Ethan & Tom that Brandon will not usurp their alliance. (L, E & Tom are all 3 together for this conversation.) Ethan questions Lex to try to figure out if his word to Brandon is the same as his word to 'us'. Lex says no, his word to 'you' is (??) first? primary? something like that. (Acknowledment of Lex & Ethan alliance.) We do not see Lex, that I remember, explaining his Brandon thing to MK, nor do I recall anything that would indicate a Lex, MK alliance. Ethan & MK are physically close (sitting or standing around) quite often, but we don't have a definitive evidence of alliance between these two. MK runs to Ethan with TB's plan to for women's alliance, but that could be CMY (cover my ass) as easily as evidence of alliance. Swami   Top

Krautboy 2750 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 12-29-01, 11:26 PM (EST) 12. "Swore on Their Sons..." Swami, I like your "May the Best Man Win Alliance" theory. I was also struck by how much Lex and Tom loved their sons. For either of them to break a "Swear on our sons lives" promise would be a huge shocker. So no way do I see Tom voting for Lex or Lex voting for Tom, but either of them could still be voted out if Ethan voted with the women. Outfrontgirl, thanks for the Alliance summary, great summary! The KimJ/Ethan secret alliance is still a question mark. I believe it does exist. If it does, they do not need Teresa anyway. Once in the Final 4, Ethan and KimJ can vote out either Lex or Tom because of previous votes, regardless of who wins immunity. So, Teresas only hope for this week is to win Immunity. Krautboy   Top

PepeLePew13 26134 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-02-02, 03:57 AM (EST) 19. "RE: Swore on Their Sons..." >I was also struck by how much Lex and Tom >loved their sons. For either of them to break a >"Swear on our sons lives" promise would be a huge >shocker. So no way do I see Tom voting for >Lex or Lex voting for Tom, but either of them >could still be voted out if Ethan voted with the >women. I'm just wondering if this "swear on our sons lives" comment could actually turn out to be a foreshadowing that it will eventually fall -- like Silas saying "I'm gonna win the million" and boom, he's gone. What if MB is showing this to us because he knows that one of these two will turn on the other -- we've seen precedence that a hidden alliance goes far to the final two and the early obvious alliances does not result in what we think is the final two. Going with this thought... I do believe that Teresa has something in the works and I have seen her act pretty tight with Lex -- rarely in terms of words but much more in the physical sense as in walking side by side from a RC or Lex's arm being around Teresa a couple of times... so I submit that these two have an alliance in the works. Now... let's say Ethan wins immunity (based on the early vidcap evidence) -- Lex and Teresa would target MamaKim or Tom here. I think Ethan would support the boot of MamaKim more than Tom as shown by several people in this thread of the L-E-T bond. So it's MK gone and we've got Lex, Ethan, Tom and Teresa. Then we have the "No Regrets" title where Lex and Teresa boots Tom and Lex says "no regrets on going against my word, I had to do it as my gut says Tom would vote against me" -- either Lex and Teresa would be very capable of winning a Fallen Comrades IC so they'd be in the driver's seat in controlling the vote so that Lex's prior votes wouldn't factor here. This would leave a final three of Lex, Ethan and Teresa. Would Lex stick with Teresa here if he wins IC or stay 'loyal' to Ethan? Almost no doubt whatsoever that Ethan or Teresa would take Lex to the finals if either of them wins IC. "It's just funny seeing people that are matched up, everyone has a partner now and everyone's happy. And boy, my camping trip just went to hell." Frank Garrison, Dec. 13/01   Top

Swami 5885 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-02-02, 09:58 AM (EST) 20. "RE: Swore on Their Sons..." >Now... let's say Ethan wins immunity >(based on the early vidcap >evidence) -- Lex and Teresa >would target MamaKim or Tom >here. Dang, I was just coming here to post a very similar thought, Pepe, but you beat me to it. I think tricky Teresa will paint MamaKim as a target if she can. I'm sure she knows by now that MK ran to Ethan & spilled the beans on her get-Ethan plan. Teresa has tried & tried to work with MK & nothing has come of it. Better to get rid of her & be the last woman standing. Lex & MK don't seem to click. He might easily vote for her. I can't think of anything we've been shown about loyalty between MK & Tom. (Maybe MB is hiding it, maybe not, but all I can recall is Tom admiring her 50-plus year old ass during the SOS RC!) >I think Ethan >would support the boot of >MamaKim more than Tom as >shown by several people in >this thread of the L-E-T >bond. Ethan seems close to MK but I think he sees her as team-support and not a player, and would be willing to cut her loose. Teresa, on the other hand, is a clear threat to Ethan since she has already tried to finesse his early departure. He would rather keep MK over Teresa, I think. With Ethan immune, she needs to get Lex and Tom on board to dump the Thong Granny. If MK & Tom don't have a bond we are not shown, this would work just fine. And-Ethan would keep MK's jury vote because he didn't turn on her. >So it's MK >gone and we've got Lex, >Ethan, Tom and Teresa. Okay. I can see those as the final 4. >either Lex >(or) Teresa would be very >capable of winning a Fallen >Comrades IC so they'd be >in the driver's seat in >controlling the vote so that >Lex's prior votes wouldn't factor >here. Lex has to win IC here. If Theresa wins she can't protect him in a 2-2 vote since he has the most prior votes. If Teresa wins IC and Tom goes, either Lex or Ethan have to turn on Tom. Probably, as you have said, Lex & his gut will turn. And juror Tom won't have been betrayed by Ethan. > >This would leave a final three >of Lex, Ethan and Teresa. > Would Lex stick with >Teresa here if he wins >IC or stay 'loyal' to >Ethan? Almost no doubt >whatsoever that Ethan or Teresa >would take Lex to the >finals if either of them >wins IC. Agreed. Ethan taking Lex would be seen by the jury as Boran loyalty. Teresa taking Lex would be seen as making a good move. I think Ethan would win easily against either Lex or TBird. Lex v. TBird I see as more of a toss-up--either could win, depending on who gets most annoyed with whom over the last few days of play. So, I look for MB to come up with a final IC that he thinks Ethan can win. Swami   Top

gemstone 70 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 12-30-01, 02:44 AM (EST) 13. "RE: EP13 Title...The Final Four: No Regrets" "We have seen Teresa try & try to turn one the alliance--but we see this as TBird talking to MK about it, not TB talking to E, or L or Tom. Is that because MB doesn't want us to know how unshakeable this alliance is?" Doesn't not showing us this reinforce that E\To\L are a strong alliance? Teresa thinks there is no chance of breaking it up. "(Teresa may be wilely enough to make L/E/T distrust MK somehow, and advance in her place. I don't know)" Again if they are so tight what do they care if they can trust Kim J now. It's 3-1. Kim J has no power.   Top

Swami 5885 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-30-01, 06:13 PM (EST) 14. "RE: EP13 Title...The Final Four: No Regrets" >Doesn't not showing us this reinforce >that E\To\L are a strong >alliance? Exactly. >Again if they are so tight >what do they care if >they can trust Kim J >now. It's 3-1. Kim J >has no power. If neither TBird or MKim have immunity, then L/E/T have to pick one of the women to vote out. If they think that MKim is now or has in the past been working against them, then they will punish MKim by voting her off. Which leaves Teresa in the F4. Thus, it is in TBird's best interest to try to get MKim to expose herself as a back-stabber. Will TBird have any regrets about that? I don't think so! Swami   Top

Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-31-01, 12:32 PM (EST) 16. "RE: EP13 Title...The Final Four: No Regrets" Teresa has told MamaKim that she is sure they can get Tom to vote against Lex. Why is Teresa sure of this? Did Teresa and Tom have a chat about Lex? Is Teresa just saying this to MamaKim to try and sway her? We have seen Lex and Teresa seem close at times. But we don't see alot of Teresa talking with Ethan. Even though they were on the same tribe for awhile. MamaKim is the one who runs to Ethan. We never see MamaKim chatting and being close to Tom or Lex. Could Teresa end up in an alliance with Lex and Tom while the 3 vote out Ethan and MamaKim? At this point I don't know what to think.   Top

drich61 558 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 12-31-01, 03:16 PM (EST) 17. "The Final Four: No Regrets for voting Tom" >Teresa has told MamaKim that she >is sure they can get >Tom to vote against Lex. > Why is Teresa sure >of this? Did Teresa >and Tom have a chat >about Lex? Is Teresa >just saying this to MamaKim >to try and sway her? > What if word of this Tom would vote against Lex talk gets back to Lex, think he might get another gut reaction? > >We have seen Lex and Teresa >seem close at times. >But we don't see alot >of Teresa talking with Ethan. > Even though they were >on the same tribe for >awhile. MamaKim is the >one who runs to Ethan. > We never see MamaKim >chatting and being close to >Tom or Lex. > >Could Teresa end up in an >alliance with Lex and Tom >while the 3 vote out >Ethan and MamaKim? At >this point I don't know >what to think. I think the more likely temporary aliance would be Lex, Teresa, and Kim. We see previews of Lex having another gut check, and talking about some "he". If this conversation is with either Ethan or Tom about the other, they will give up on Lex and target him. Lets assume Ethan wins immunity, Lex will be fighting for his life, and has to go to the women. MB told us to watch that food reward for the true alliances, and he set up the photo op for Ethan and Tom. Given these facts I do not see Ethan and Tom both being in the final two. If Lex goes this week, I can think of NO senario that does not end up with an Ethan, Tom final two. Even if it is Teresa or Kim that goes this week, Lex would need to win the last immunity to avoid an Ethan, Tom final two. Given this in order to avoid an Ethan, Tom final two, one of them HAS to go this week. I know Lex's gut was way off the last time it flaired up, but I don't see that as a reason to think he would be talking about Ethan this time. If Ethan were after Lex he would have done it last week, while Lex was away for over a day, and Ethan was at camp with the 3 women. No Lex's gut has to be telling him Tom is the turncoat this time, plus Tom has zero chance at this immunity. Now, what arguement could Lex use with Teresa and Kim to get them to vote Tom and not Lex. "If you get rid of me now, you both know how tight Ethan and Tom are, they will be the final two. You have no chance, unless we break up that team this time." Ethan and Tom will both vote Lex, so Ethan will have no regrets. The other three will see they must break up these two now or have no chance, so they won't have regrets either. Then we also have Kelly's comments which have been very accurate up to now. We know she likes Tom, so she for sure would have fun with him. It is an ALL Samburu jury right now, so Teresa has yet to earn a manipulator label. Kelly still seems to not know much about Ethan, could mean he stays until the end. Or it is just Ethan and she wouldn't know him if he had been the second member of the jury. As for Kim and Lex, she just doesn't like them, and I don't think any amount of jury time would change that. So nothing can be learned there.   Top

Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-01-02, 03:31 PM (EST) 18. "RE: The Final Four: No Regrets for voting Tom" I do not believe Tom makes the final 2. He is well-liked by the tribemates and they will not want him in the final 2 with them. Plus I doubt he wins the final IC. I believe Tom goes either now or he is the next one out. He has votes and could be taken out in a tie with 4 members left. Plus I do think Kelly spent a little time with Tom on the jury. I think Lex could easily sway Teresa to his side. She needs an ally. But who else would he use? I wish we knew if Ethan feels as close to MamaKim as she seems to feel to him.   Top

dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-02-02, 10:42 AM (EST) 21. "RE: The Final Four: No Regrets for voting Tom" In episode 4 after the 3-3 switch Ethan commented that the two people he was closest to in Boran were over in Samburu, and he was also concerned about Clarence being his "greatest threat." Obviously, he had to be speaking of Lex and Tom, so those three are in it together to the final four, the final three unless immunity forces them apart earlier. I think "no regret" perhaps refers to the final immunity winner, who picks the final boot, that the three of them have agreed that whoever gets booted will take it like a man and not base his vote for who wins on hard feelings about having gotten the boot. It would be great to see if Lex actually could "take it like a man" but I'm not predicting it. "If all machines were to be annihilated at one moment, so that not a knife nor lever nor rag of clothing nor anything whatsoever were left to man but his bare body alone that he was born with, and if all knowledge of mechanical laws were taken from him so that he could make no more machines, and all machine-made food destroyed so that the race of man should be left as it were naked upon a desert island, we should become extinct in six weeks. A few miserable individuals might linger, but even these in a year or two would become worse than monkeys." (Samuel Butler, "Erewhon")   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-02-02, 11:26 PM (EST) 22. "An Early Use of No Regrets" LAST EDITED ON 01-02-02 AT 11:54 PM (EST) I am coming around to Krautboy's explanation of the Final 4 as the 4 Old Boran having No Regrets as the simplest and most likely explanation, and I just saw an earlier appearance of the term that would fit in quite neatly. In Ep 2, the nightcam portion: this is when they are back in camp after Kim Johnson loses the Stairway building RC by tripping and falling. The scene opens with Lex saying, Kim, "No Regrets" to Kim Johnson--repeated by Tom and echoed by the others. Shot of L-E-T. She replies that she really screwed up, and Tom says, ... Anybody can make a boo boo and I'm proud to have you on our team. Lex says "I agree. " Clarence does not look very forgiving. This moves to a confessional where she says it's definitely a reason to vote her off that she screwed up and she feels very vulnerable. The shot is interesting because Jesse, Kelly, and Clarence are still on the Boran team, BUT the camera shot focuses on L-E-T talking to KimJ (she is on the lefthand fringe of the shot). So this could be a set-up of the Final 4 who will end up having no regrets then or at the end that they stuck together.   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-03-02, 00:16 AM (EST) 23. "More on the Early Alliance Conversations" LAST EDITED ON 01-03-02 AT 00:41 AM (EST) I just finished watching Episode 2 again, where the Boran alliances are first introduced. Remember this is the Ep where Samburu splits along age lines, "Who's Zooming Who?," and Burnett tries to make us feel that Boran splits on gender lines. Kim J tells Jessie (who was never her ally) that she, Kim, thinks the boys would like to do it on their own... Then we have the key conversation between Lex and Ethan. Before that, Ethan talked about being paranoid as we could see Lex and Tom off in distance alone together. Then Lex and Ethan are away from everyone, and Lex says something I find very odd (paraphrase as best I can). The sound is horrendous during this part and I turned on the Closed Captioning for help, but it misses some of the whispering. Lex: Tom and I were talking today about the agreement we have, you know between me, Kim, and you... Tom and I swore on our son's names and we agreed we feel comfortable with asking you to be in a 3-way alliance Ethan: something about "we're the most honest people." and "that's the only way it can be." Lex: So we'll have a three way alliance to the end and we won't cannibalize eath other until we're THREE. Ethan: (confessional) Lex is everyone's friend so he's in a perfect position to steer everyone how he wants them. He may be playing both sides. He may be plotting against me. This is the weird part I don't get. WHY is Lex telling Tom about a Kim-Lex-Ethan alliance at all? The closed captioning printed the name as K and he difinitely said Kim. But the 3-way he proposes to Ethan is to be L-E-T, and Ethan doesn't even blink and say what about Kim? Nada? Or why did you go ahead and swear on your sons with Tom before checking with me on dumping Kim for Tom? It was strange. Granted, this is after Kim J lost them the RC and they have lost the first 2 challenges in a row. They may have decided Kim's not going to make it as they will have to cut loose all the weak players. We also know from Kelly that Lex included HER in a Final 3 alliance early on, so it appears Lex was forming Final 3's all over the map, and Ethan was right. If anyone heard this conversation differently, please post! I listened to it 3 times and that's what I got from it. I am keeping in mind that this was early on, Day 5 or 6, and that alliances change, but this suggests to me that Lex originally approached Kelly withing the first few days, and Kim, and then decided to dump both of them for Tom and Ethan--never bothering to inform them of the fact. Question: did they ever inform Kim J the L-K-E agreement was defunct? Is Ethan keeping that conversation in his pocket as some info for Kim if he ever needs her to go against Lex, as in when they are down to Four? No evidence that I can see to say for sure. The Kim J insider where she believes she's in a Final 3 or 4 alliance with Lex, Ethan, and Kelly is from Ep 3, the NEXT Ep AFTER Lex makes the L-E-T proposal to Ethan. The Clip is called "Kim Johnson's Stability" and is well worth watching and attempting to decipher what exactly she means. Somewhere there's also a confessional of Kim J saying Lex may be playing both sides. It's not in Eps 1 or 2--must be in 3 or 4 (and I seem to have misplaced or dubbed over those). If anyone has it, I'd like to know what exactly she said...   Top

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