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"judges' hidden agenda"
mickeyvon 35 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
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04-26-06, 01:25 PM (EST)
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"judges' hidden agenda" |
Does anyone think the judges purposely gush over or pan a performance based on what the producers tell them? Clearly the producers have a strong vested interest in the overall outcome, as they want to wind up with the most marketable star in the end to make the most money on their career. As result, do the producers encourage the judges to hype up one performance or harshly criticize another? For example, alot of people thought Katherine was not nearly as bad as the judges stated, and despite being very good, they were over the top for Elliot and Chris. I know alot of people don't like Kellie, and she may not have been great last night, but maybe the judges were especially harsh given the fact that it's getting close to the end, and the producers are now trying to prevent another country-girl from winning. I know they have to be emphatic for the sake of entertaining the viewers, but is there a conflict of interest with the judges and the producers and the outcome of the show? Does anyone have any input or information on the subject? Also, do the judges know at all how the voting ranked each week? I think the answer is no, but do they let them know that one person is ahead each week, to try and hype up the potential winner's career? Or even to cause fluctuations in voting to create bigger ratings? It is TV, reality TV no less, and these distortions must happen all the time.
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nailbone 27263 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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04-26-06, 02:46 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: judges' hidden agenda" |
Oh, I'm firmly convinced that all of that happens. Too many times, the person who did the worst the previous week, and still survived, has ended up in the "pimp spot", singing last the next week. And the person that did the best the week before, or got REALLY hyped, ends up in the "death spot" singing first.Nigel what's-his-name said that they know going into the results show who are the bottom 3, but not who's leaving. They can't SPECIFICALLY manipulate the votes, I don't believe, because I don't believe some of the past winners were the actual choices of the producers, but they can play on the emotions, etc. of the singers and the viewers, to get close to who they prefer. Sig by Arkie!!
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geekboy 1788 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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04-26-06, 02:51 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: judges' hidden agenda" |
Oh, just sit back and enjoy the show. I tend to not believe in conspiracy theories about the show being rigged to a degree, or certain contenstants getting 'pimped' as people like to say around here.In the end, America votes and that is the beauty of it. The three stooges get to say what they say each week, but it is you and I who vote and who ultimately decide the winner. Scripted to a degree? I don't know. Pimping? I don't know. I just like to enjoy the show each week. geekboy
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nailbone 27263 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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04-26-06, 03:04 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: judges' hidden agenda" |
Oh, I'm sure we agreed on something at some point. Maybe that we're over Kellie? Sig by Arkie!!
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Snidget 44369 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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04-26-06, 03:45 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: judges' hidden agenda" |
Of course they do things to influence the viewers. I think a lot of it is about ratings. You have a contestant with a story that will grab people, you show their story rather than someone elses.The judges and producers are human they are not ever going to present a totally objective assesment or completely fair treatment of the contestants. How much is by design and how much is just part of any process like this is hard to say. I do think they sometimes do put someone in the "pimp" spot or put them first in the order because they want the drama of the voting. Honestly given how much they rake in per 30 second commercial and how much any artist could ever under the best of situations could pull in, I think the ratings week to week trump any amount of trying to get one person picked as the winner. They want the record sales as that keeps the show going from year to year, but it is IMO the ratings of the show and how much they can get for each ad that drives the producers. They would be bad business people if they passed up the week to week profits in order to get an artist that sells 2.8 million records rather than 2.1 million. Some of the difference between what we hear and what the judges say has been explained many times in interviews and even on the show. Even though it is live what you hear in the theatre and what you hear over the airwaves is often two very different things. Simon often comments about how he watches the playback on a TV after the show airs and what he hears when he listens there is often changes his opinion of who sounded best and who America will vote for. Some performances are so bad or so good that it does not matter, but a lot of times something sounding good or bad is venue dependant.
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singer 1910 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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04-26-06, 03:57 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: judges' hidden agenda" |
The judges definitely appear to have an agenda (at least the sober ones do).Why does Randy run around giving interviews about a guy winning, when there are female singers who sound better than the guys? I think that what they are trying to do to Kat is pathetic. The girl sounds good, and she looks great. She should get more respect than they have been giving her. Constructive critiques are far better than producer-induced slag-fests. As I've stated elsewhere, the fact that The Pickle is even on the show is an abomination. And the judges have contributed to that. (Simon, are you listening?) "Reality" television, indeed. *spits at producers* --Singer
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fenway_frank 23 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson"
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04-26-06, 04:02 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: judges' hidden agenda" |
they absolutely had an agenda last night...they gave Kat a beating like you read about...total bag job last night....
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niteowl 199 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
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04-27-06, 01:12 AM (EST)
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9. "RE: judges' hidden agenda" |
>It seems to me that by >giving Kat such a hard >time last night, the judges >influenced Kat fans who previously >assumed she was safe, to >actually place votes. Thus, >an unwarranted bad review for >a contestant helps that contestant >in motivating their fan base >to actually dial the phone >and vote! > >Yes, but they wanted her to get the votes...sympathy votes are the easiest to get. And Kat is a producer's dream: the whole package, no matter what anyone says.
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capcomguy 38 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
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04-27-06, 04:13 AM (EST)
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11. "RE: judges' hidden agenda" |
I agree. Thats why Simon and Randy were apologizing to Kat later. Then Randy and Paula would argue who loved her more. That was silly bordering on stupid.
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CattyChat 3379 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
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04-27-06, 10:55 AM (EST)
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22. "RE: judges' hidden agenda" |
I agree 100% Nailbone. And not only that, but Paula's ignorance in not apologizing really irritated me (but she's an idiot, so I don't expect much from her). IMO, Paula was the WORST of the 3 in their harsh criticisms of Kat, because (1) she went on and on and on and on explaining why Kat was so bad; and (2) Paula's negative comments cut the hardest, IMO, because usually she is always on the positive no matter what. I wanted to smack Paula the 3 times she got in that Paris was the strongest female vocals Tue night, even after Ryan noted how calls were made to Fox about what they did to Kat and Simon & Randy apologizing. Paula has always been partial to guy contestants, but she makes no qualms that she does not like Kat and the only thing I can think of is jealousy. Anyway, I was so happy to see that Kat & Chris were the top 2 vote getters & that Ryan made a point in letting America know it. I suspect Kat got the most (especially due to the skewering she received) followed closely by Chris and then Taylor and finally Elliott. I suspect there was a bit of a gap between the top 4 & the bottom 2. I take solace in knowing that most of the viewers are not gullible enough to be influenced by the games the judges play in their favorites. They can try to force someome down our throats, but it's usually to no real success. Well, now I only have 3 to worry about voting for now
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Chez 777 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"
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04-27-06, 06:37 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: judges' hidden agenda" |
Sad to say, I think they are ganging up on Katherine because they think she is too similar to Kelly Clarkson. I think they are afraid this will end up cannibalizing record sales. They want someone who is of a different genre (appearance, style, etc). Any of the other contestants would fit this requirement.
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capcomguy 38 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
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04-27-06, 04:11 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: judges' hidden agenda" |
It would be a surprise if there was a hidden agenda. In Kellie's case her singing was uninspired. She delivered as if she was in a trance. I think all the judges saw that.
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AshLanie 895 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"
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04-27-06, 07:58 AM (EST)
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13. "RE: judges' hidden agenda" |
Well, on Tues ALL three judges were VERY harsh on Katherine.Lo and behold two of them apologize to her and guess what: Katherine was in the TOP two for the night. Simon has said over and over in the past that these singers sound differently when he rewatches them than they do when he hears the live....they always sound worse on the rewatch yet this time Katherine sounded better on the rewatch.
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singer 1910 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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04-27-06, 08:38 AM (EST)
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14. "RE: judges' hidden agenda" |
Agree totally.Kat is an exceptional singer. She is technically on point and her tonal qualities are sublime. Plus, she is beautiful. And classy. She embodies what an American Idol should be (minus the judges' meddling and attempts to sway public opinion in interviews). It amazes me that the judges would pimp someone like The Pickle and make mean comments to a wonderful performer like Kat. They definitely have an agenda, and I am glad that all of them ate crow last night. And please Randy, shut up and stop lobbying for outcomes. Let America decide. For the most part, people are smart enough to figure out who can actually sing. --Singer
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aifan2006 25 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
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04-27-06, 10:38 AM (EST)
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20. "RE: judges' hidden agenda" |
I doubt the producers have much to do with it, but the whole thing is pretty strange, they sometimes bash a performance that wss'nt that bad, and go nuts over a performance that was average, so go figure. In my opinion, they went way overboard critcizing Katherine, to the point Simon had to apoligize, which was bizaree, when I watch my tape I did'nt think Taylor was all that bad, he sang a tough song to sing and did a pretty credible job of it I thought after watching the tape again, but they were pretty rough on him, I honestly thought Chris sang an average song and gave an average performance but there they were gushing on and Paula was standing up screaming I love you, I love you, it was bizaree. The judges do reward average performances with gushes, and sometimes a decent performance get panned because they don't like that your singing Whitney, or your not dancing around the stage, or whatever their gripe is. I honestly did believe the judges push certain performers over others because they prefer others, seldom would they say anything against Chris because he is one of the favorites, on the other hand I think simon gives Taylor a hard time because he is not a personal favorite of his, they used to love Kelly but started turning on her when they realized her lack of singing ability and suddenly she could do no right anymore, there is definately favortism, I think Kathryn is a favorite to win this thing so when Simon was over the top critizing her, the producers I do think forced him to apoligize to her because I don't think the producers want Kathryn sent home prematurly. I definately see a pattern of favoritism.
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jags 124 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
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04-27-06, 10:52 AM (EST)
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21. "RE: judges' hidden agenda" |
Many valid points but can we vote Paula off. Just a thought. JAGS
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sylvester 555 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
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04-27-06, 11:02 AM (EST)
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23. "RE: judges' hidden agenda" |
Well, I don't know how anyone could think there weren't hidden agendas.I don't think you have to be a conspiracy theorist to see the facts. Chris has been given the pimp spot more than once. Others haven't had it at all. This week was the second time they've yanked Taylor around with his song. First time was the Country Roads week, and now this. This week Taylor was set to do a different song, and they pulled it from him less than 2 days before, not because they couldn't clear it, but because they decided it didn't fit the genre. It did. (sorry, I know what it was but I'm having a senile moment) I also have to believe the judges know the vote totals. Simon has said that he has a horrible feeling Taylor is going to win. He knows he's been the top vote getter. The agenda is clear. They're pimping Chris HARD. He's the chosen one. They've started to pimp Elliott, and I think Katherine is their 3rd choice for final 3. Paris is gone next week, she just doesn't have the fanbase of the others. That leaves Taylor. I don't expect them to do him any favors.
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singer 1910 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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04-27-06, 11:36 AM (EST)
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25. "RE: judges' hidden agenda" |
I hope you're right Magnolia, and I am sorry that you are right Sylvester. The judges definitely do have an agenda.I've said all along that I think that Kat is the best technically prepared singer and that Paris and Elliott are not far behind. I am not fond of Chris because of his lack of emotionalism (the same sometimes hold true for Elliott) and his one-dimensional way of expressing music. But I think that he is a good singer. More than good. Taylor is my hands down favourite, because he connects with his material. He's not the best vocalist, but he is absolutely the best performer. And when it comes down to it, people usually buy music or go to movies when they LIKE the performers involved in the projects. I hope that people vote for Taylor, because the producers and judges are not really supporting him. My personal preference is for Kat to be in the finals with Taylor, because of her musicianship and her appearance. I think that Chris (because he does not move me) and Elliott (because of the way that he looks) should be a toss-up for spots 3 and 4. Paris could occupy either of those positions based on her talent alone. If I ranked my personal list only on music, Elliott would be at the top with Kat. All-in-all, any of these top five candidates would be a good American Idol. They all bring something different and special to the table, either musically, visually, or performance/stage presence-wise. But Taylor is my man. I hope that the American public ignores the judges and the producers and that they vote for Taylor. --Singer
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tenmeters 202 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
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04-27-06, 06:18 PM (EST)
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27. "RE: judges' hidden agenda" |
dream on. Taylor or paris or elliot is not gonna win. That leaves kat and cris in the running. kat is probably gonna win because she is more marketable than chris.
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kcp 4 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
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04-27-06, 10:50 PM (EST)
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31. "Observations RE: judges' hidden agenda" |
First - imagine what would happen to AI if its winners didn't succeed afterwards.. if they had lagging record sales, and only temporary interest that dissipated after the contest was over.There's a LOT at stake for AI to produce a successful product, otherwise their show would be labeled a joke... the advertisers would walk away, etc etc. There is a LOT of money at stake if they DO NOT PRODUCE A MARKETABLE PRODUCT, not to mention the show's integrity and believability. so YES - I believe the judges are under a LEGAL CONTRACT to say and do certain things. Now...Simon Cowell: Notice that when he puts a contestant down, that THAT contestant does not get the boot????? He went after Elliot BIG TIME (the other judges disagreed with him)... and Elliot stayed on. Most all of the contestants he has slammed in a very insensitive, unappealing manner have gotten mega sympathy votes. A way to keep that contestant on? Yes - I believe so. Paula's Tears: Perhaps she was crying because she knows that the AI producers are pushing the judges to relax on their support of E. - despite his talent. They want him out. Why? He is no Ace physically (etc etc). Simon - in every interview - stated that he felt Kellie would go to the top 3. This is why he went after Kat much harder than Kellie. Why go after Kat? She's got a beautiful, trained voice, she's attractive - what is WRONG with her? Well, NOTHING... but.. it was clear the producers needed the judges to go after her. My guess is Paula's arm was twisted - suck it up, honor your contract, or you're out (and lets face it, she needs the work). There's a reason why AI doesn't want Kat to win... it's perplexing what it is, but I think it's obvious now. ~ kcp
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zazzy 4390 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest"
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05-01-06, 11:20 AM (EST)
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34. "Judges are there for many more years...and other comments..." |
LAST EDITED ON 05-01-06 AT 11:22 AM (EST)The judges are there for years to come...Simon has a NEW five year contract; Paula has a NEW three year contract...and I imagine Randy has a similar length one as well. AI is a formulaic show. It is produced to a formula that is working for them. Their idol winners are now Grammy winners...there is a lot at stake. I agree that they are pimping Chris--big time. I said in a thread weeks ago that they were probably already writing a song that showcases Chris for the finale. Kellie was becoming an embarrassment. They had Queen, Rod Stewart and David Foster probably all telling the producers that she was too much a light weight. All they could talk about was her energy on the stage or something like that--really reaching in trying to find something positive to say about her. Kellie would have been a good story and draw for the May shows because her dad gets out of prison in May...and having him in the audience rooting for her would have added to the Kellie story. Instead, Kellie was unable to keep up with the material...and her lack of singing depth really showed. She had to go. The singers that are left have "something". None are an embarrassment musically although they seem uneven in their treatment of Taylor. Taylor's expression seems to say "whatever" when he performs these days...going along with the Idol machine but knowing he is not getting the same vetting that Chris is...what with the last minute song changes and no special romantic lighting or last place pimp spot on the program. As Devious Weasel's data thread shows (thanks Devious)...Chris has already had the pimp spot twice...and Taylor has not had it once since the top twelve was revealed: number left/who sang last 12 Chris 11 Ace 10 Elliot 9 Bucky 8 Paris 7 Katherine 6 Chris Taylor is the only one of the remaining perfomers who has not had the last spot--is this his week? Should be...then they dont have to let him sing last again... unless they NEVER give him the pimp spot and give it to Elliot this week. I think the producers already have it mapped out and here is my guess: 5 guessing ...Taylor sings last with Paris booted 4 guessing ...Katherine sings last with Elliot booted 3 guessing ... Chris sings last with Katherine booted 2 guessing ... ??? unsure if who sings last matters in F2 but guessing Chris beats Taylor in the end
I wonder if there is a connection to the pimp spot and the one they are trying to save....Taylor has been a top vote getter from the start so they never needed to "save" him...and maybe someone can do an analysis of whether the pimp spot came a week after someone was in the bottom two or three...wasn't Chris is the bottom two the week before this so he got the pimp spot this week? Back to the question of this thread. Hidden agenda with judges? Yes, yes, yes....only to some of us it is not so hidden. Not just the judges..the whole show. Next year...if time permits... better cataloging of the showcased contestants in the audition rounds and forecasting of the top 10 or 12...and tracking of the judges and show's pimping of them.
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