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sleeeve 3456 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 11-19-01, 00:41 AM (EST) "Survivor Insider, Week Six" Most of it is unimportant, but once again, Kelly comes through with some interesting insight into her position in the game... from her point of view, Clarence is an outsider (that she's manopulating in a fake alliance???) and she does not list Tom as a member of the core alliance... the core alliance is Lex, Ethan, Kelly, and Kim!!!!... at least that's what Kelly believes. Also, it appears that Silas was the outsider in the GXA, but Brandon and Lindsey actually liked him... did Kim??? I don't think so. Tom tells all about Lindsey Private interview with Tom One thing I will tell about Lindsey: she farts like a mule. She went down to the river, and I told her to wash her ass. With an ass like that, there's bound to be cheesecake and dingleberries as big as coconuts down there. You'd think it would have offended her, but she said "they were all dry." I could put her in a room with any man, and she'd fart him out of the bed. She could care less... she'd shit on you. Interviewer can be heard laughing loudly. I don't care... I'd shit right back on her... a woman like that you gotta get right in there... she's hard to ride, hard to hold. Kelly learned her to crochet... Lindsey made Tom an ankle bracelet. He won't wear it... he's not gonna look like a girl. 45 years, no earrings, necklaces, etc. He'll wear it on his belt loop. His son wanted to wear a necklace, and Tom told him that if someone tried to do something to him, don't com4e crying ot daddy... if he wanted to look like a girl, he was gonna be treated like a girl... that's the way we think back home. That's what I tell Brandon... if he acts like a girl, he's gonna be treated like one. I'm really proud of this that Lindsey made me... a good luck charm, but I'm not gonna wear it as a necklace or a chain. Brandon panics about strategy Brandon talking to Lindsey and Kim. Let me tell you... I read that whole book last night, and I'm super confident. Promise me you won't worry tonight. Lindsey: I just wanna be here for 9 more days. Brandon: We'll vote for Tom, and I'll beat him... I don't think there's anything in that book that I can't beat him on... unless it's the fucking Laitn version of the words. Lindsey: Whisper... you're loud!!! Brandon: I don't think they believed Kim when she tried to communicate the votes to them. I talked to "him" and offered to tell them our previous votes, and "he" said they don't wanna hear it, cause everyone's been trying to tell them, and everyone's said something different. We've misled them... now they don't believe Kim cause Frank and the new tribe seems so tight. Kim: that's why they're sitting pretty... they think you have a vote. Brandon: when we went to the waterhole, I said something about the merge, and they snickered evilly, and I'm sure they're confident I have a vote... we just have 2 or 3 more hours until the vote, and that's it. Lindsey: What if someone approached you and asked you to vote for me to guarantee you get farther, or else you get voted out tonight? Brandon: I would never do that... it's not my nature... I'm not gonna look like a big ass on TV. Lindsey: yeah... it's morals... Brandon: I can't believe they'd do that... they seem so sweet. Lindsey: she told me that if I said yes, and then didn't, I'd be the next one voted out... Brandon: and you said? Lindsey: I said I had to think about it, cause I was put on the spot... and I came back to Kim, and she told me that she and Big Tom had just had the same talk. Brandon: well, I hope that you don't do that, cause I would never do that to you, but we don't need to have that talk, cause I know you wouldn't do it to me. Kim: No, I wouldn't... they can boot me out next. Lindsey: yeah... it would make me sick to have to vote for you to save my own ass. Clarence on the softer side of Frank Clarence in a private interview The IC was a big win, cause one of us is here for 3 more days... someone is going ot the merger because of Ethan... well, everybody... I had a shot, Kim had a shot, but really Ethan stood out. Frank didn't make a shot in the challenge, and it bothers him, cause he's a bow and arrow connoisseur... we teased him that he spent so much time teaching us that he didn't have time to practice for himself. He taught us like children... step by step. Frank is an honorable guy... red-blooded American male... tells it like it is. When you talk about his family, you see a softer side of him... He used to run around, sowed his oats, but he's settled down. He says the best times of his life are now, with his family. He's got a lot of land far away from the city, where a spade is a spade and people are people. He's a nice guy and it's hard to see how he can strike people the wrong way... well, I can see it, but I don't agree. I can't say that I respect him, cause I don't really know him, but I respect what he's shown me so far... I don't know anyone really... we're just playing a game. Kim told me that she thinks we're finding out what people are really like, but I disagree. I think of it as an exaggerated poker game. you play poker with your friends... you bluff them, you cheat, and at the end of the day, you're still friends. there could be people here that are the greatest people in real life, but it just depends how much you wanna win. people might do all kinds of dishonest things in this game. this is not really who we are... the only people that really know us are back home... not hte 16 people here... we only know what others want us to see. I think Kim's comment was really unaccurate... but that's just where she's coming from. Frank tells how to pluck & gut a chicken Frank talking to Kim and Clarence: I have a canteen out there, and a hole dug... we'll let the blood drain in the hole, and gut it, rub some salt in it, and pull the feathers off... fill the hole back in, and bring it back here. Kim: don't use the fresh water. Frank: well... I don't wanna use the contaminated water. Kim: well... we're gonna heat it up, but all right. (Frank voice over from private interview while we see him killin and cleaning the chicken with Ethan and Kim helping as he describes the scene.) This chicken will be harvested by taking a mechete, cutting the neck off, and bleeding the body. Ethan: bleed it in the hole, bleed it in the hole. Frank: while the body is still warm, we'll pluck the feathers off, trim the legs off, open up the cavity, clean out the innards, run some water over it, tie it to a stick, and roast it over the fire. (cut to chicken roasting over the fire) Frank: there it is. Kim: looks good. Frank: we have a bright light for the carving, and the winds blowing in a good direction... life is good. (Cut to group eating chicken) Ethan: Thank you Earth, thank you chicken, thank you chicken's friends. Kim: good, huh? Teresa: It's good... really tasty. Ethan: It's good... I haven't had much chicken in my life, but from what I can remember, this is good chicken... fuckin good chicken. Kim: exactly. Frank's embarrassing moment private interview with Frank: I was hoping to avoid the IC, but if we must... here we go... It's very embarassing... somethign I'm not gonna live down when I get home. Ethan and Teresa came back with the mail that morning, and all I kept hearing was "frank" ...and then I saw the bow and arrows, and that's a hobby of mine. immediately, they thought "we have Frank... we're gonna win this". (cut to Frank showing group how to shoot... perfect bullseye... Ethan: shit) I got them into shooting and they were excellent students. They were strong and upbeat. Safety was highest priority. Great students... sorry for laughing about it. They practiced and got good. At the IC, saw the setup... team challenge, but fire as individuals... We started, and Samburu immediately gained the upper hand. As fifth and last player, I missed, and I was shocked. My pupils did an excellent job, and the instructor missed the target with all four chances. (cut to shots of all four misses) very embarrasing for me, something I'm gonna have to live with, but we triumphed as a tribe which was most important... I enjoyed it, though... the sweet success of team victory outweighs the individual embarrassment. Kim P. asserts her vulnerability private interview with Little Kim anxious to go to reward to see who is voted off... if someone from Samburu is voted off, are we more vulnerable? Not really... kinda bonding with Lex, Tom, and Kelly. If someone from Boran gone, are we ahead? Not really. If I was there last night, I would have voted off Frank... he would stab Samburu in the back if he had the chance. Would love to see Silas make it. Will not be upset if Frank is still there, cause he's Samburu and he'll help us. If Silas is gone, I'll be upset, and feel really vulnerable. Last few days, I've been feeling vulnerable again... We were stressed out with the 4-4 split, but got through that with Doc being voted out... ...and then everything we thought was going well really wasn't. If we had gone last night, anyone could have been voted out. Lindsey particularly vulnerable. Trying to protect her, but a danger that we could get voted out... gave her word to Lindsey, but anything could happen in the next few days. Kelly reveals what's behind her poker face private interview with Kelly Lindsey is funny...I like her. Didn't give her enough credit... cried too much... thought she wasn't fit to be out here. Fun to hang out with people my age... Clarence doesn't count. Got to do girl talk... she really wants girls to do well in this game... refreshing to hear... didn't get that in Boran...Kim feels same way. Told me probably too much... I still am loyal to old tribe. She told me lots of info about who had previous votes... she may have been lying... I lied back to her, and I feel bad... can't trust people here, yet. She hinted that Brandon has votes against him... Frank has votes, Teresa has votes... Silas does not. In our camp, only one with votes is Clarence... I let her think that Lex has a vote, so that she can have peace of mind, and if we go to TC, they can direct their votes at him and not me. Also told her that Mama Kim had votes, but that's not true... just in case she tried to communicate to her other tribe. I'll fess up if we make it to the merge, but don't wanna screw old tribemates. Would have been fine if we'd gone to TC, cause we have no votes... Interested to see who they voted off last nite... Clarence might have sided with Silas... he mentioned doing that after the merge. Mama Kim might side with Teresa... I can definately see that. I would be glad if Frank was gone... cause of what they've told me... Do I really see Teresa and Silas betraying Frank? probably not. Do I see Clarence sticking with Kim and Ethan, when I know he hates Ethan? probably not. If Kim or Ethan is gone, I'll be bummed and worried about myself. I hope Frank is gone, cause he sounds like a jerk. I plan to keep my poker face on as long as I continue this game, which will hopefully be the last day... these girls are great, and they're really fun, but I don't care if they're my soul-mate best friends... I want to win this game. Funny, cause they've been trying to ally with me, and offering to vote off anyone I want... know I'm doing something right, cause that's always what you want to hear from people. Good to be over here, cause a chance to get more irons in the proverbial fire. I have Clarence who thinks I'm with him. I have the girls who think there's something going on. And then there's Lex, Ethan, and Kim... or whoever's left. It's gonna be hard for me going into the merge, cause people might think I'm playing a bunch of angles... I'm not... I just wanna win... I'll keep my ears open, and hopefully do what's best. Tom's thumb: the dog ate it! Samburu tribe sitting around as a group. Brandon looking at "Big T's" toe: is there something wrong with your toe? Kim P: yeah... a cow stepped on it right before we came out here... and twisted it. Tom: It just hurt for a little bit... like 5 days. Brandon and Lindsey laugh. Kelly: tell them about your thumb... I think it's funny. Tom (holding thumbs next to each other): It don't look like much is gone till you put it beside the other one.... I had a plastic pipe... trying to put it together, and I give the boy I'm with my knife to cut it, and he cut my thumb off... so I tell him: "You cut my thumb off" and he says "you're joking", so I take off the glove to show him, and a little chunk of meat falls out, and you can see the bone... and I had a dog with me, and my dog ate my thumb. Lindsey (repeatedly says): No, no, no. Brandon cringes and laughs at the same time. Tom (laughing): so I went to the hospital, and the doc asked if I had the rest of my thumb, and I said, yeah, it's out in the truck... and the doc asked where, and I said in my dog's stomach... so they took a part right here (pointing to under arm) and patched it... I tell people I was a gunner in a chopper in Vietnam and got shot (because of scar)... my thumb stays crinkled all the time... you don't realize how often you use that thumb. Kim: does it have any feeling? Tom: a little bit Brandon: your dog ate your thumb?!?!? Tom: yeah. Lindsey: and your son cut your thumb off? Tom: no it wasn't my son. Brandon: the boy helping you. Tom: and it was my knife... sharp as a razor. Lindsey: OMG... that is hillarious. Tom: yup... just told him that he cut my thumb off, and took the glove off. Lindsey: and it dropped out and the dog grabbed it... that is hillarious. Strange bedfellows: young Samburu the GXA talking together in night vision Kim P: I was thinking we should each vote for one of them... I vote for Kelly, you vote for Lex, and you for Tom... Brandon: and if we do that, and they all vote for one of us, that one is gone. Kim: Really? I was thinking they'd split their vote. Lindsey: they won't. Brandon: if y'all split your vote, I'm fucked for trying to help.... If you do that, I'm gone. Lindsey: No... we won't do that... no. Brandon: we all have to vote the same way, and we have to vote for Tom. Lindsey: unless you can talk to T tomorrow and find out if Lex has votes. Brandon: I think they went to Clarence... I think Diane voted for Clarence... I don't think any of these people have votes... Lindsey: I think you're right. Brandon: if we lose, and I don't think we will tomorrow, we gotta push through... I don't care if we're bloody when it's over... balls to the walls. (they get ready for bed) Brandon: Okay... scoot over, cause I don't wanna be near the edge. (to Kim) you scoot over close to cooty girl. Lindsey: who's cooty girl? Brandon: you are Lindsey: why would I have cooties? Brandon: cause you've been sleeping with Silas. Kim: you guys! he's gone... Brandon: "she" thinks we turned on each other... Kim: okay... be honest... do either of you really care that he's gone? Brandon: I do care, cause I liked the guy. Lindsey: I liked him, too. Kim: well, he was our safety net. Brandon: yeah... he was the big safety net, but there's nothing we can do. Tribal Council vote cam: Lindsey's out Brandon: (Big Tom) The only reason I'm voting like this... I'm probably gone I admit it, but I think you're the only person I can beat in the questions, and I think you're the only person I could possibly beat in the questions, and even that I'm not sure of. Tom: (Lindsay) (in his regular voice) Lindsey, this is a hard decision, and now I guess I'll be the only one that expels that gas every morning. Crew person to Lex: Can you whisper, please. Lex: (LINDSAY) (whispering) Yes... Lindsey, you are are a super cool chick, and it's been great getting to know you these past few days in my tribe, but it's time to go. Crew person to Kelly: Kelly, can you whisper this, please. Kelly: (LINDSEY) (stage whisper) Yes I can... I really hope this works... I'm voting for you for a lot of reasons. Number one: I don't think you're trustworthy, number two: you're a far better athlete than I am, and number three: you told me you cut my sorority. Lindsey: (BIG TOM) (whispering) I hate this game, I hate having to vote for this person... I'd rather vote for myself right now, cause this is miserable. Kim: (TOM) Big Bear, I'll miss you a lot... I've really enjoyed getting to know you, and, um... I hope I will be able to come out and see you on your farm... I'd really like that... and I've learned a lot from you. You never know what might be up my sleeeve...   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six big idiot 11-19-01 1  RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six dabo 11-19-01 2    RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six sleeeve 11-19-01 7  RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six PepeLePew13 11-19-01 3    RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six sleeeve 11-19-01 4        RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six bebekid 11-20-01 33    The L'il Merge Rose Red 11-19-01 5        RE: The L'il Merge Rose Red 11-19-01 6            The L'il Merge? Hello Thank you! Slymmer 11-19-01 8                RE: The L'il Merge? Hello Thank ... PepeLePew13 11-19-01 9  RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six zzz 11-19-01 10  RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six Stairway2Dayton 11-19-01 11    RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six sleeeve 11-19-01 18  RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six anotherkim 11-19-01 12  RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six vulcan 11-19-01 13    RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six zzz 11-19-01 14    RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six Loree 11-19-01 15        RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six zzz 11-19-01 16            RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six Serendipity 11-19-01 17        RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six sleeeve 11-19-01 19            "It's not what you see, but...' Rose Red 11-20-01 20                RE: "It's not what you see, but...' anotherkim 11-20-01 21                    RE: "It's not what you see, but...' wendyp 11-20-01 22                        RE: "It's not what you see, but...' Rose Red 11-20-01 23                            RE: "It's not what you see, but...' zzz 11-20-01 25                        RE: "It's not what you see, but...' zzz 11-20-01 24                            RE: "It's not what you see, but...' red 11-20-01 26                                RE: "It's not what you see, but...' anotherkim 11-20-01 27                                    RE: "It's not what you see, but...' Bebo 11-20-01 28                                        RE: "It's not what you see, but...' zzz 11-20-01 31                                            RE: "It's not what you see, but...' Bebo 11-20-01 32                                                RE: "It's not what you see, but...' zzz 11-20-01 34                                                    RE: "It's not what you see, but...' MC_Hampster 11-21-01 48                                    RE: "It's not what you see, but...' red 11-20-01 30                                RE: "It's not what you see, but...' zzz 11-20-01 29                                    RE: "It's not what you see, but...' red 11-20-01 35                                        RE: "It's not what you see, but...' zzz 11-20-01 36                                            Comment on form Outfrontgirl 11-20-01 37  Open Message to Outfront Girl zzz 11-20-01 38    MAMA K.BOSSES ETHAN Rose Red 11-20-01 39        RE: MAMA K.BOSSES ETHAN red 11-20-01 40  RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six Serendipity 11-20-01 41    RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six NorthOfBoston 11-20-01 42        Kelly and Ethan? Ethan and FRANK? Rose Red 11-21-01 43            RE: Kelly and Ethan? Ethan and FRAN... herewiss13 11-21-01 44        LETKK King William 11-21-01 45        RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six PepeLePew13 11-21-01 47  Ethan's game King William 11-21-01 46    RE: Ethan's game NorthOfBoston 11-21-01 50  Kelly and Ethan, who can they trust... NorthOfBoston 11-21-01 49

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big idiot 193 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 11-19-01, 01:05 AM (EST) 1. "RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six" Sleeeve, I agree with your highlights and interpretations. I would also like to add that KimP does not seem to understand basic strategic principles (split the vote???). This makes me think that however far she gets in the game, she will be flying low to get there (Amber style) or dragged along (Rudy style). She won't get there on her own wit. Also, Clarence hates Ethan, that surprised me. I would guess that Ethan has not showed any forgiveness for the bean and cherry debacle. That may be extrapolated to no potential undercover alliances between Clarence and Ethan. Although "mutual admiration" is not always the glue of an alliance.   Top

dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-19-01, 01:27 AM (EST) 2. "RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six" Thanks, sleeeve, darn shame we can't watch Survivor on internet like BB, but this stuff has been next best thing. They wanted to vote for Lex? Was that a strategic decision, because I can't see GXA wanting to boot him otherwise.? "If all machines were to be annihilated at one moment, so that not a knife nor lever nor rag of clothing nor anything whatsoever were left to man but his bare body alone that he was born with, and if all knowledge of mechanical laws were taken from him so that he could make no more machines, and all machine-made food destroyed so that the race of man should be left as it were naked upon a desert island, we should become extinct in six weeks. A few miserable individuals might linger, but even these in a year or two would become worse than monkeys." (Samuel Butler, "Erewhon")   Top

sleeeve 3456 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 11-19-01, 02:52 AM (EST) 7. "RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six" >They wanted to vote for >Lex? Was that a >strategic decision, because I can't >see GXA wanting to boot >him otherwise.? If you read Kelly's interview, she says that she intentionally misled Lindsey to make her believe that Lex had previous votes... I think that GXA didn't fully believe her, but hoped to try to verify the facts with T(eresa)... if they could not verify Lex's previous votes (which they obviously didn't), they'd stick with their plan and vote for Big T(om) (which they did). You never know what might be up my sleeeve...   Top

PepeLePew13 26134 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-19-01, 01:28 AM (EST) 3. "RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six" Nice work, sleeeve... Kim P has really lowered herself here, absolutely no way can anyone think that splitting the vote to one for each can be a "good" strategy in any way when it's 3 of them and 3 of us. One thing did catch my eye... >Lindsey: I just wanna be here for 9 more days. If I remember correctly, on the previous Insider Frank was saying "I'm here 12 more days" thanks to the 3-on-3 swap. Now Lindsey is saying "9 more days." Is that a clue they all know/think the merge is delayed to episode 10 (or after ep.9 TC) when there's 7 people left? This would mean that we've got a jury of 5 voting for a final 2. >(they get ready for bed) >Brandon: Okay... scoot over, cause I don't wanna be near the edge. >(to Kim) you scoot over close to cooty girl. >Lindsey: who's cooty girl? >Brandon: you are >Lindsey: why would I have cooties? >Brandon: cause you've been sleeping with Silas. Is this for real? Gag. "Damn you, Carl, for leaving me here with a bunch of misfits." Frank Garrison, Nov. 1/01   Top

sleeeve 3456 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 11-19-01, 02:22 AM (EST) 4. "RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six" >>Lindsey: I just wanna be here for 9 more days. > >If I remember correctly, on the >previous Insider Frank was saying >"I'm here 12 more days" Frank's comment was referring to the fact that his energy was so renewed that he felt like he was starting over... I think Lindsey's comment refers to wanting to be on the jury: 3 days in Ep6 3 days in Ep7 3 days, and then voted out at the end of Ep8 = first member of the traditional jury. You never know what might be up my sleeeve...   Top

bebekid 1621 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 11-20-01, 04:07 PM (EST) 33. "RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six" I agree that Lindsey's comment about 9 more days could be a great spoiler about the merge and subsequent jury. But my first reaction when I read that was that she wanted to get to a certain point in the game to collect a certain amount of money. Surely these players know from the first 2 seasons approximately how much $$$ each player gets based on how far they go in the game. And we know that $$$ is an issue with the GXA. IMO, this statement alone is nothing to go on, but coupled with other spoilers, it may be something of value.   Top

Rose Red 419 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 11-19-01, 02:29 AM (EST) 5. "The L'il Merge" > >>Lindsey: I just wanna be here for 9 more days. > >If I remember correctly, on the >previous Insider Frank was saying >"I'm here 12 more days" >thanks to the 3-on-3 swap. > Now Lindsey is saying >"9 more days." Is >that a clue they all >know/think the merge is delayed >to episode 10 (or after >ep.9 TC) when there's 7 >people left? This would >mean that we've got a >jury of 5 voting for >a final 2. I think you've hit the motherlode here, Peppy. This, then, is what's gonna happen. That means three more people are going BEFORE the "merge" which I guess we should call the "L'il Merge" after "L'il Kim." And you're saying they all KNOW this? Ethan certainly seemed to be shocked by Analprobst's news at the last Boron TC. Or are they all in the know, and we, the viewers haven't been clearly informed to keep us all guessing? As guessing we are. Well, if this is the case, then at Sambooboo, it would be at least Brandon who would be out if they go to TC. The Boron majority are all going to hang together. And two more out of New Boron tribe. Will that be that be Teresa and Frank as opposed to Clarence? Whom they may need to keep because they have to keep winning immunity? Or would just one of them go and then Kim Pee would be out like a light at Boron? This makes total sense with all the unsettling clues and rumors flying around. EPMB wants to make the PAGONGINGly bored viewers keep watching. This may do it. Kelly sure does come off as a smart l'il whippersnapper, doesn't she? I think, however, her news on Clarence-hates-Ethan is a little old. I think they bonded in a way that we haven't been shown after the Twist. Clarence lifted Ethan into the air like a rag doll after Ethan's triumphant archery win. They seemed closer than close. Maybe Clarence felt that way once, but I think he may have moved on. Also, making all these new tribes sit with each other for a few more paranoia-inducing days may produce new alliances. BUT DON'T COUNT ON IT! Also, remember, we've seen VERY little of what's up with anybody since the twist. The chickens got more air-time than the contestants last week. Except Clarence. >   Top

Rose Red 419 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 11-19-01, 02:34 AM (EST) 6. "RE: The L'il Merge" Also, remember, we've seen VERY little >of what's up with anybody >since the twist. The chickens >got more air-time than the >contestants last week. Except Clarence. > I'm sorry. Typo. I meant, "anybody AT BORON." We have far too much information on Sambooboo.   Top

Slymmer 61 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 11-19-01, 04:50 AM (EST) 8. "The L'il Merge? Hello Thank you!" I have been saying this for two weeks now, the merge will wait for 1 or 2 more episodes. Keep the players guessing. I believe in an earlier insider clip they made reference to a time line. Now, granted I do not know if this was the timeline in their own minds based on the first two seasons but obviously they believe things will happen in some order. Just like the reward challenges happpening in almost the same order with slight variences in how they are obtained. I think it is so possible that there could be a jury of five and even three. The Press Conference statement by the CBS exec who said there would be FOUR members going to the final show has not even began to be discussed I do not know why buit it has hovered in my head all season and I keep bringing it up no one has taken the ball and run with it yet. Is this pure hype or did I hear correctly? Kelly almost sounded like she was trying to get them to split there vote so she could back door someone and then claim she jumped ship and it was now 4-1. She is trying to feel her way into becomming a major player and manipulate the rest of GXA off the map. Too little to late she should have done it to get rid of Silas or Lindsey instead of Doc. _____________________________________________________ If Life is but a Dream, what happens when we wake up?   Top

PepeLePew13 26134 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-19-01, 08:58 AM (EST) 9. "RE: The L'il Merge? Hello Thank you!" >Kelly almost sounded like she was trying to get them to >split there vote so she could back door someone and >then claim she jumped ship and it was now 4-1. >She is trying to feel her way into becomming >a major player and manipulate the rest of GXA off >the map. Too little to late she should have >done it to get rid of Silas or Lindsey instead >of Doc. Could you clarify what you mean here? Kelly has never been in the same tribe as Silas or Doc. Do you mean Kim P? Split whose votes (GXA votes or L/T/K votes)? It is possible that Kim P thought of getting the 3 GXAs to split up and vote for each of L/T/K, then getting L/T/K to split votes and switching her own vote to team up with one of the split votes... but that's too convoluted of a scenario for somebody like Kim P to handle. "Damn you, Carl, for leaving me here with a bunch of misfits." Frank Garrison, Nov. 1/01   Top

zzz 703 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-19-01, 11:40 AM (EST) 10. "RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six" I agree that Kelly's interview is the only one that has any real spoiler value, especially because we have been give so little information about what the real alliances and suballiances in old Boran really are. >Kelly reveals what's behind her poker >face >private interview with Kelly >Lindsey is funny...I like her. >Didn't give her enough credit... cried >too much... thought she wasn't >fit to be out here. > >Fun to hang out with people >my age... Clarence doesn't count. > >Got to do girl talk... she >really wants girls to do >well in this game... refreshing >to hear... didn't get that >in Boran...Kim feels same way. > >Told me probably too much... I >still am loyal to old >tribe. >She told me lots of info >about who had previous votes... >she may have been lying... > This tells me that Kelly is clever and feels she has reason to stay loyal to her old tribe even though she seems to like these younger people closer to her own age. She must believe she has a viable alliance in old Boran to do this. This also suggests that she is not biding her time to jump to the GXA at some later point. >I lied back to her, and >I feel bad... can't trust >people here, yet. >She hinted that Brandon has votes >against him... Frank has votes, >Teresa has votes... Silas does >not. >In our camp, only one with >votes is Clarence... >I let her think that Lex >has a vote, so that >she can have peace of >mind, and if we go >to TC, they can direct >their votes at him and >not me. >Also told her that Mama Kim >had votes, but that's not >true... just in case she >tried to communicate to her >other tribe. >I'll fess up if we make >it to the merge, but >don't wanna screw old tribemates. > The fact that she tried to get votes onto Lex and KimJ suggest that maybe her allies are really Tom and Ethan, unless she thinks Lex and KimJ would do better in a tie break competition than Tom and Ethan. She seems to feel some loyalty to her entire old tribe, but her choice of Lex and KimJ as people to put votes on if it necessary suggests something to me in term of her own personal hierarchy of loyalty. >Would have been fine if we'd >gone to TC, cause we >have no votes... >Interested to see who they voted >off last nite... Clarence might >have sided with Silas... he >mentioned doing that after the >merge. >Mama Kim might side with Teresa... >I can definately see that. This exchange suggests that when Kelly left, she did not see Clarence or KimJ as being aligned tightly with Ethan. She seemed to see them as free agents that might be looking for new allies. I am not sure if her assessment of KimJ was correct. I suspect KimJ had a secret alliance that Kelly did not know about. I also think that the twist has probably brought Ethan, KimJ and Clarence closer than they might have been when Kelly left. > >I would be glad if Frank >was gone... cause of what >they've told me... >Do I really see Teresa and >Silas betraying Frank? probably not. > She assumed that old Samburu would stick together, but she believed the info she got that Frank was the outsider of the three. This shows that Kelly can be lied to successfully. >Do I see Clarence sticking with >Kim and Ethan, when I >know he hates Ethan? probably >not. >If Kim or Ethan is gone, >I'll be bummed and worried >about myself. >I hope Frank is gone, cause >he sounds like a jerk. > This demonstrates that, contrary to the SI clip of Clarence and Kelly, Kelly has some sort of alliance with KimJ and Ethan, although not necessarily as a group. This makes it look like there might have been a lot of little suballiances going on in old Boran. However, of all of her old alliances, she seems to value Clarence's the least. I also wonder if Clarence still hates Ethan. If Clarence really does then Ethan is in trouble this week, but I believe the spoilers that Teresa is going so Ethan and Clarence must have come to a truce since Kelly left. >I plan to keep my poker >face on as long as >I continue this game, which >will hopefully be the last >day... these girls are great, >and they're really fun, but >I don't care if they're >my soul-mate best friends... I >want to win this game. > >Funny, cause they've been trying to >ally with me, and offering >to vote off anyone I >want... know I'm doing something >right, cause that's always what >you want to hear from >people. >Good to be over here, cause >a chance to get more >irons in the proverbial fire. > This shows Kelly to be very flexible. This could be an advantage unless she is viewed as untrustworthy. >I have Clarence who thinks I'm >with him. >I have the girls who think >there's something going on. >And then there's Lex, Ethan, and >Kim... or whoever's left. >It's gonna be hard for me >going into the merge, cause >people might think I'm playing >a bunch of angles... I'm >not... I just wanna win... >I'll keep my ears open, >and hopefully do what's best. > This last set of comments seem quite revealing. It emphasizes that Kelly was just playing Clarence and never saw him as a viable alliance partner (side note: I have been arguing this for a while when others were taking that clip as "proof" of a tight alliance between Kelly and Clarence). Many people seem to point to the fact that she does not mention Tom as one of her allies. I am not sure whether that is significant or just an oversight on her part. It is hard to be certain that it was an intentional omission. The overriding thing, however, that I take from this clip (combined with other past Kelly clips) is that Kelly is not in the inner loop of old Boran alliances. They keep showing her talk because, at least at this is point, she does not know the true alliances and suballiances. That conclusion does not bode well for her. I think she is fooled into thinking she has a side deal with almost everyone in a bunch of small alliances. I suspect that this would be true only because they all might have lied to her to keep he on their side but did not tell of the their other alliances because they were already set and have no room for her. This is the way that a tribe maintains power. The innner alliance (e.g., Colby, Tina, Keith) lie to the outer alliance (e.g., Jerri and Amber) to keep them in line while they are still needed. I fear that Clarence and Kelly may be this outer alliance that are being played by inner alliance people. At least Clarence seems to know he is on the border of any possible alliance; Kelly seems oblivious. We have virtually nothing from Ethan, Tom, Lex or KimJ on their inner thinkings about strategy (other than perhaps Ethan and KimJ's talk about her being gone if they had lost the IC in E4 that others on the board took as proof of KimJ not being in an alliance but I took as Ethan and KimJ being in a pretty close secret alliance that was realistic enough to know that KimJ could not have been saved under those circumstances). I think the reason we have not been shown useful confessionals from these 4 people is because it would give too much away. If I had to guess right now, I would suspect that this is the final 4: Tom, Lex, Ethan and KimJ. Tom's three prior votes may come back to haunt him at that point.   Top

Stairway2Dayton 104 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 11-19-01, 12:46 PM (EST) 11. "RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six" Thanks again sleeeve, for the insider info. A few thoughts... If Tom doesn't like jewelry on men, what does he think of the multi-pierced Lex? Another reason to question their alliance, as I can't believe that Tom hasn't said anything derogatory to Lex about this. On the other hand, I'm not surprised that everyone says how much they like Tom, based on his entertainment value. His thumb story was pretty funny. However, a well liked person is not who you want in the final two. Did Kelly actually refer to Kim as Mama Kim, or did you just put that to make it clear for us as to who she was discussing? Kelly may have implied that Lex and Mama Kim had prior votes because they seemed like likely targets, and it would be easier to convince the GXA that she was telling the truth. I still don't think you can count out a Kelly/Clarence connections. When she said she was glad to be around people her own age and Clarence didn't count, I think she was referring to missing "girl talk" since Jessie was sick and Diane and Kim are much older. I do believe that she is planning on stringing him along ("thinks I'm with him") and sacrificing him as soon as necessary. She certainly doesn't want him to vote against anyone she wants to keep, so she'll keep him in line until he's gone. Kim P is as dumb as a post. Not only the split votes strategy, but did she actually say that she believes that she doesn't have to worry about Frank because he's "Samburu and will help us"? Ethan must have vegetarians everywhere up in arms. Not only will he eat the chicken (and drool over it) but he even helped kill it? Interesting the way Lex said my tribe during his IC vote. S2D   Top

sleeeve 3456 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 11-19-01, 09:00 PM (EST) 18. "RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six" >Did Kelly actually refer to Kim >as Mama Kim, or did >you just put that to >make it clear for us >as to who she was >discussing? Added by me as clarification... should read "(Mama) Kim" You never know what might be up my sleeeve...   Top

anotherkim 14420 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-19-01, 03:06 PM (EST) 12. "RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six" A quote from the transcription of the insider...Kelly's comment about the ties in Boran.. "You know, I’ve got Clarence who thinks I’m with him, and I’ve got these girls who think maybe we have something going on, and then there is the Lex & Kim & Ethan or whoever is left. So, it’s going to be really hard, I think, for me, going into the merge just to make sure that no one thinks that I am playing a bunch of different angles. Because it’s not really that I’m playing a bunch of different angles, I just want to win. And I’m just trying to keep my ears open and hear how everyone else is thinking and hopefully facilitate my win in the process all the while. This indicates to me that perhaps Tom is on the outside of that "alliance" and those three are tight as long as Kim isn't a liablity in the team immunity. Also, to clarify Lex's tribe comment.... "Lex: (Cameraman asks, “Lex, can you whisper this please?” and he replies, “Yes.”)Votes for Lindsey: Lindsey, you are a super cool chick, and it’s been great getting to know you the past few days in my new tribe, but it’s time to go The only other thing that struck me as spoilerish from this version of the insider was Clarence's comment: "The immunity challenge is a big win, you know, because it kept someone here for 3 more days. I mean, That’s one of the first things that I said to Teresa. I was like, “Wow, Three more days. Someone is here for 3 more days.” She goes, “Yeah, isn’t that great?” I go, “Yeah!” So, someone’s going to the merger that wouldn’t have, because of Ethan, because of his play..... and actually because of everybody." I am assuming that C. thinks the merger is this week, but his comment is vague enough, it could mean anything. It would seem premature of him to say that someone was going to the merger, though, if there was still the possiblity of another round of TC in teams. If there is a delayed merger, I don't think he knows about it yet. All of the Insiders are transcribed word for word at the following site: http://www.realitytvfans.com/newspub/section.cfm?SID=16 Kim   Top

vulcan 56 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 11-19-01, 03:56 PM (EST) 13. "RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six" contrary to popular beleif it seems that kelly is fixin to strategize herself out of the game just like fellow players linsdey and silas too much plotting and too many alliances will be her downfall ( what the point of her even pretending to be in an alliance withclarence) as for that alliance how does she no its not the other way around   Top

zzz 703 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-19-01, 04:35 PM (EST) 14. "RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six" vulcan-- I think what you say here is similar to what I conclude in my post above, but for a slightly different reason. I agree that too many alliances may lead to Kelly being "found out" and seen as unreliable. However, I do not think that this is her biggest problem. If, for example, she were in a tight alliance with Lex, Ethan and KimJ, they would not care that she had a side alliance with Clarence because it would just keep him in line until they were ready to dump him. Of course, if Clarence were on the jury, it might make it less likely that he would vote for her. But that is only a problem if she gets to the finals. I think she has a bigger problem. I think her bigger problem is that she is not really in any alliance. She seems to think that old Boran is generally loosely allied and she has side alliances with KimJ, Clarence, and perhaps also Ethan and Lex. She also recognizes that something is going on with LET, but seems to be convinced that it may not be that tight an alliance. I think she has these thoughts because that is what Lex, Ethan, Tom and KimJ have allowed her to believe. They have to keep her loyal to old Boran because they need to keep her from jumping to any of the Samburu folks. But she does not seem to have any solid 4 or 5 person alliance going. I have to believe such an alliance exists, and my guess is that it is Lex, Ethan, Tom and KimJ. If this is true, Kelly's biggest problem is not that she is in too many alliances, her problem is that she in not part of the core of the only alliance that really matters.   Top

Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-19-01, 05:13 PM (EST) 15. "RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six" Everytime I watch the Survivor Insider I see a chat with Kelly telling everything she knows. It is starting to make me think that MB is letting us see this because Kelly doesn't know as much as she thinks she does. Plus she probably won't win. MB never wants us to see too much about the alliances of the winner.   Top

zzz 703 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-19-01, 05:16 PM (EST) 16. "RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six" Loree-- Thank you. That is what I have been trying to say.   Top

Serendipity 525 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-19-01, 07:30 PM (EST) 17. "RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six" >Funny, cause they've been trying to >ally with me, and offering >to vote off anyone I >want... know I'm doing something >right, cause that's always what >you want to hear from >people. >Good to be over here, cause >a chance to get more >irons in the proverbial fire. This is the kind of statement that makes me feel Kelly could do herself in. She's flattered that Lindsey and KimP want to form an alliance with her - that's what you want to hear from people - and has failed to realize they are just trying to save their own butts by getting Kelly to vote with them against Lex or Tom. I'll bet if Kelly picked Brandon she'd find they would not be so quick to go along with anyone she wanted to vote off.   Top

sleeeve 3456 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 11-19-01, 09:01 PM (EST) 19. "RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six" I agree fully... we would not see everything Kelly knows if she knew everything... BUT it doesn't mean that everything in her comments aren't at least partially true... the key is to read between the lines. You never know what might be up my sleeeve...   Top

Rose Red 419 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 11-20-01, 00:35 AM (EST) 20. ""It's not what you see, but...'" I agree, too, Sleeve. As MB said re: Tina barely being present in Episode One of S2, "It's not what you see. It's what you don't see." Kelly's CONSTANTLY being featured on Survivor Insider bugs me for some reason. She's received an inordinant amount of face-time there, and not as much on the show itself, though that started to change last week. Why? Because she's got it all wrong? She's expendable? Perhaps it's because she's articulate, if not verbose, and Kim Pee is starting to emerge as a dumbbell beyond words. And Kelly's POV CHANGES so constantly on everybody. She may be just too smart for her own good, and dumb Kim Pee may get along better with everyone in the long run, because she's so -- uncomplicated. Also, MB has to keep ONE of the Playskoolers in the game, or really, he could be sued. It sure looks like he switched them to doom the GXA. Lindsey even said as much in her interviews. Lindsey and Silas both seem VERY angry and bitter about their S2 experiences. Especially Lindsey. On Howard Stern, she said something like "It's an evil game." (Phone rings.) Is that Stacy Stillman on the line? We know from Survivor Insider that Big Tom hit on Kelly big time early on and Kelly was totally grossed out. I'm sure Tom is storing up that little nugget of rejection for payback later. And the more agreeable Kim Pee, may be more...open to alliances, flexible, shall we say?   Top

anotherkim 14420 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-20-01, 09:09 AM (EST) 21. "RE: "It's not what you see, but...'" >>Also, MB has to keep ONE >of the Playskoolers in the >game, or really, he could >be sued. It sure looks >like he switched them to >doom the GXA. I sound like a broken record, but the switch HAD to be within the rules prior to the game. He isn't going to risk a lawsuit, especially since Stacey has set precedent. It is only when he starts worrying about keeping people in the game that he gets into trouble. Lindsey even >said as much in her >interviews. Lindsey and Silas both >seem VERY angry and bitter >about their S2 experiences. Silas talked repeatedly in his goofy grinning way about what a great game it is. They got burned, but it is their own fault. He, at least, seems to realize that. Whiner Lindsey may never catch on. I do think that all the Kelly insight may be a sign that she is a goner....or it could just be that she is the only one that has anything relevant to say . Kim P. is so dim and such an athletic threat, I can't see anyway that MamaKim or Ethan will let her stay around. Kelly is much less of a threat to them and she is already on board. Kim   Top

wendyp 2081 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Roller Coaster Inaugurator" 11-20-01, 10:18 AM (EST) 22. "RE: "It's not what you see, but...'" Remember we do not see alot of KimP talking. We see her with others, but not alone. ANd that we all have concluded much to Kelly's dismay that she is not in the L/E/T alliance. I can see the guys taking KimP into their alliance. Before you all start screaming, hear me out. We all think they will not allow a woman in their alliance, but think about it. They do not want Clarence, he is a threat and they can not trust him. Frank is a threat and not sure they can trust him. Okay that leave KimP, MamaKim, Brandon and Kelly. They will not pick Brandon and they know MamaKim can not win a challenge but is likeable by jury ala Tina. Kelly they do not feel they can trust with the multiple of alliance she is trying to hide ( I think people know what she is doing). This take us to KimP, they think this is a safe bet, they think that Frank does not like her, no vote for KimP. MamaKim does not really know her and will stick to Boran, no vote for KimP. Clarence does not know her, no vote for KimP. Kelly not tructs may vote for KimP. L/E/T will all vote for which ever one makes the final two. Plus they think that they can beat KimP in the IC at the end. This could backfire. Kim may fly under the radar knowing her alliance and try harder at the end. Plus I think some of the old Boran will vote for KimP and Frank will. He never said he disliked her, just the alliance of the GenX. Plus I can see L/T going to Ethan and saying lets keep her she is nice to be around and she will not do well. She will be loyal as she knows she is on the chopping block. Final 4 Lex Tom Ethan and LilKim.   Top

Rose Red 419 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 11-20-01, 10:40 AM (EST) 23. "RE: "It's not what you see, but...'" Wendy, This is the first really good anaylsis we've had yet on Kim Pee. Yes, I think you may be right about the final four. And can you imagine the emotional devastation she will feel after Brandon inevitably is voted out - probably soon? Lex and especially Tom may take pity on her plight, and feel like they like her more than the manipulative Kelly, who has also burned the both of them. Keeping Kim Pee around also assures MB of a not getting socked with a GXA lawsuit. The blatant manipulation of the challenges this year is well - BLATANT. This is why MB is keeping them in these new teams, so that new alliances would form. Also, as you pointed out, we're not being shown much of her, always a key to further characater development later on. We don't know what's really up with her, like we don't really know what's up with Ethan and his alliances, either, which I think will prove the Tina-like treasure trove of information that will reveal the winner. UNLESS EPMB CHANGES THE GAME AGAIN!!!! Also, Carl said in his chats that he wished he had gotten to know Kim Pee better. He said this with a surprising wistfulness and longing in his voice, which I thought was strange. I thought that means she goes far. Much farther than anyone has really deduced yet - EXCEPT YOU! I like people who are Bright AND Right!   Top

zzz 703 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-20-01, 11:09 AM (EST) 25. "RE: "It's not what you see, but...'" Rose-- I found it amusing that after I posted my comments blasting Wendy's reasoning, I saw your post praising it. Let me just say that while I agree that MB would love to see this type of cross-tribal alliance, it has nothing to do with law suits and everything to do with good television. Silas and Lindsey would have just as good a basis for a law suit (which actually I think is no real basis) even if KimP goes far. The twist still ensured that Silas and Lindsey would be eliminated earlier than they othewise would have been. MB wants this because these types of shifting alliances make for the unpredictable TV that he likes. The real point is the MB CANNOT cause this type of cross-tribal alliance. He has NO POWER to do this. If he had this type of power, Amber would have joined with Nick, Liz and Rodger and Sean would have joined with Kelly, Gervase and Colleen. Those shifts in power would have been AMAZING television, and I think MB would have given another $1 million to see it happen if he had the power. MB cannot make the players do these kind of things. The fact that he would like them to happen has never made them happen in the past and will not make them happen in the future. The twist was an attempt to make cross-tribal alliances more likely, but it will fail. Everyone in Boran already had their end-game strategies worked out before the twist, and nothing has happened to change that strategy. With old Samburu at such a disadvantage, their strategy looks even easier to pull off then they thought it would be. No one is going to depart from that strategy to pull KimP (or as you keep insisting for some reason on calling her Kim Pee) into their alliance now. They don't need her and she does not fit into their plans. Wishful thinking on MB's part, Wendy's part or your part will not make it happen. If I am proven wrong, you will have a big laugh at my expense. But after watching S1, S2 and about 1/2 of S3, I feel confident that the structure of this game and the personalities involved will cause KimP to go down with the rest of her doomed original tribe.   Top

zzz 703 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-20-01, 10:54 AM (EST) 24. "RE: "It's not what you see, but...'" wendy-- I'm sorry. I do not follow your logic at all. >They do not want Clarence, >he is a threat and >they can not trust him. > Frank is a threat >and not sure they can >trust him. Okay that >leave KimP, MamaKim, Brandon and >Kelly. They will not >pick Brandon and they know >MamaKim can not win a >challenge but is likeable by >jury ala Tina. Kelly >they do not feel they >can trust with the multiple >of alliance she is trying >to hide ( I think >people know what she is >doing). This take us >to KimP, they think this >is a safe bet, they >think that Frank does not >like her, no vote for >KimP. MamaKim does not >really know her and will >stick to Boran, no vote >for KimP. Clarence does not >know her, no vote for >KimP. Kelly not tructs may >vote for KimP. L/E/T will >all vote for which ever >one makes the final two. > Plus they think that >they can beat KimP in >the IC at the end. First, you are making A LOT of assumptions, including that LET are a tight alliance and do not yet have a fourth member. I disagree with that assumption. I suspect that KimJ is already a member of that alliance and will stay a member for the long haul. MB will try to hide her membership, but I think it is becoming clear. The fact that KimJ cannot win challenge is not a reason not to align with her. This only makes it easier to boot her when you get down to 3 or 4 players. You want someone in your alliance of 4 that you can be confident you can boot if you are not planning to take that person to the finals with you. Your entire logic seems based on the theory that each member of LET wants to find a person outside of the LET alliance that he can take to the finals and beat. I find this logic flawed. First, if that is their thinking, they would take Brandon over KimP because he is less liked. You just say "they will not take Brandon" but do not say why. He has shown he can be loyal to an alliance. He is not very well liked. So what if he cannot win a challenge--you don't need him to. If your primary criteria for deciding who to pick up as an alliance member is unlikeability, Brandon would probably be your pick over KimP. But more to the point, no three person alliance is going to agree amongst themselves, implicitly or explicitly, that only 1 of them will make it to the finals. This is completely against human nature. How does the discussion go--"let's bring in KimP because she will be easy to beat in the jury when you two get to vote for me over KimP." "Vote for you, no you'll be voting for me." I don't think so. An alliance does not work this way. This is also why a 3 person alliance is difficult because one person generally feels like the third wheel. That is another reason I think that KimJ is already in the alliance. I think Ethan insisted on bringing her in and Lex and Tom relented (again-feeling confident that Ethan would still need to win IC himself to get to the finals because KimJ was unlikely to do it--but Ethan had even less chance if he felt that Tom and Lex would each bring each other and they needed a fourth anyway). In S1 and S2 people generally kept their promises on who to bring to the finals. Rich knew he would have to bring Rudy so he lost the challenge. Colby kept his promise and brought Tina, even though it cost him victory. People have already made promises to take someone to the finals (my guess, as I have said is Lex/Tom and Ethan/KimJ). There is no room for a "loser" candidate for everyone in the alliance to bring to the final if given the chance. I just don't see how that can work. There are other flaw I see in your logic (e.g., how can they be sure they can trust KimP), but I will leave it to the above comments. I just think it flies in the face of human nature to expect them to pick up KimP late in the game as a last minute ally. If they have as much strength as a 3 person alliance as you think, they will just coast to the final 3 as that 3 person alliance. They need a fourth and they already have a fourth. That is my best guess. Tell me where you disagree. P.S. I know people are desparate to find a scenario in which there is some kind of cross-tribal alliance. I cannot let wishing cloud my judgment. MB is desparate for cross-tribal alliances. People's desires to see this will keep them speculating that it will happen which will keep the obvious outcome from being predicted by everyone. But at this point, I see no evidence that it will happen and much evidence that it will not. The KELT alliance seems to be playing this game perfectly--eliminating the opposing tribe while keeping fringe alliance members Kelly and Clarence in the dark about their impossible positions.   Top

red 140 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 11-20-01, 01:28 PM (EST) 26. "RE: "It's not what you see, but...'" One question zzz... You think the allies are Lex/Tom and Ethan/Kim. Do you think this is just what we're inclined to believe based on the random splitting of tribes? Or do you think alliances shifted when the tribe split. I've always thought the strongest allies are Lex/Ethan. I don't think Ethan wants to go up against a woman - what if he loses to a female vote? In any case, I think the tribal splitting is having the desired affect, distracting us from an alliance that was probably made in the first few days and will carry out to the end. Its easy to say Tom/Lex cause they're together on Samburu. And remember, Ethan said his two best friends left. As another point, people say the KimJ possibly leaving if they'd lost the third immunity challenge just shows her bond with Ethan that he'd be so honest with her that they'd have to let her go. However, there's really no reason why if KimJ was tight in the alliance and Kelly wasn't, that Kelly wouldn't have been the one destined to go. I think Kim and Kelly were equally in/not in at that point. Kim J is in an especially good position now because of the new Boran breakdown. She's the only one left with Ethan as Clarence was always on the outs. I think she may think she's in a better position that she actually is - however, this is purely speculation on my part. As a side, when people speculate, they should have at least a few facts to back up their reasoning as opposed to just random statements like "Kim Pee will last because they won't take Frank or Brandon and they won't trust Kelly" etc. Not to bash your post, but there just weren't any facts at all to back up your theory. You could apply the same logic to virtually any player in the game.   Top

anotherkim 14420 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-20-01, 02:33 PM (EST) 27. "RE: "It's not what you see, but...'" I agree with most of what you say, but Kim J. was definitely more likely to go--she knew it and Ethan said it. Kelly didn't flub a challenge; Kim did. Ethan told Frank that Kim was saved by winning the IC and she knew it. I don't think there is any mystery there at all. I don't think MB has shown enough of Ethan or Lex to really form any firm opinions about what they are thinking or doing. Lots of assumptions have been made about them and we are led to infer things from Kelly's confessionals and the bits they throw our way. They are sort of in the shadows....perhaps because they will develop much later. I think that Kim J. and Ethan are very, very tight, though. Lex, too. Tom is on the fringe of the alliance, IMO. If they were to make it to the final four, he would be the first to go. Kim   Top

Bebo 21083 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-20-01, 03:00 PM (EST) 28. "RE: "It's not what you see, but...'" There are mind games going on... Yes, at the beginning, L/E/T/mK/K were a strong force of 5. But then MB changed the rules, and the paranoia could kick in. Ethan thought Lex and Tom were his two best friends. But without some careful strategy on his part, he could find himself out before the merge. The five of them have been separated, and that can change a lot. Instead of spending 24/7 with each other, they only see each other for challenges. They don't know what sort of interaction is going on during the day to day living. These scenarios might appear unlikely to a viewer who is seeing both sides, but could appear reasonable to the contestants with their limited viewpoint: - Kelly enjoys being around people closer to her own age and joined the youngsters in targeting Tom or Lex. - Lex and Tom were originally going to stick with Ethan, but Kelly has impressed them in new Samburu and they decide to stick with her instead. - Since Clarence was a fringe member of the original Boran and has received votes from Boran, he decides to team up with Frank and Teresa to get rid of Ethan. - MamaKim is bonding with Frank and Teresa since they are closer to her age and they can go after Ethan. These folks saw S2, where Jerri was so sure that she, Amber, and Colby were the core alliance, only to see hear the tribe speak before all of the Kucha were gone. Old Boran would like to be able to trust that they'll reunite after the merge, but there's always room for the paranoia that things have changed and new alliances have taken hold.   Top

zzz 703 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-20-01, 03:39 PM (EST) 31. "RE: "It's not what you see, but...'" Bebo-- You come up with some interesting possibilities, and I think that these possibilities are exactly why MB did the twist. I just think we have pretty good evidence that none of them will happen. I will try to take them one at a time. >- Kelly enjoys being around people >closer to her own age >and joined the youngsters in >targeting Tom or Lex. Kelly had her chance to do this and did not. If she had done this Lindsey would have been her ally. Why vote out her ally? Her vote against Lindsey I believe should put to bed any thought that Kelly will vote with the GXA (unless she somehow finds out in time that there is a core old Boran alliance that does not include her and will vote her out at some point--I think KELT are too smart to let her find out in time). >- Lex and Tom were originally >going to stick with Ethan, >but Kelly has impressed them >in new Samburu and they >decide to stick with her >instead. This might make sense if there were really only a 3 person LET alliance. But I believe it is a 4 person KELT alliance, and there is only room for Kelly as a fringe player to fall on her sword as the 5th person left in the game. A 3 person alliance is just not strong enough to pull it off (unless you have Jerri and Amber fooled into thiking they are part of the three person alliance). Lex and Tom will stick with their 4 person alliance, and keep Kelly and Clarence on for the ride as fringe players. >- Since Clarence was a fringe >member of the original Boran >and has received votes from >Boran, he decides to team >up with Frank and Teresa >to get rid of Ethan. > This might be possible, but the rumors of Teresa getting the boot this week, if true, put that to rest. I also think Clarence would be foolish to do this because then everyone (other than Frank and Teresa) would be out to get him because he knows the GXA dislike Frank and Teresa and his former tribe mates would go after him as a traitor. He needs to stay "under the radar" and teaming with Frank and Teresa puts his head right back in full view. >- MamaKim is bonding with Frank >and Teresa since they are >closer to her age and >they can go after Ethan. > Again, while this is possible, I think we have pretty good evidence that KimJ will stick with Boran (see Clarence above), and in fact, I believe is already in a strong alliance with Lex, Tom and Ethan. She has no good reason to throw that away. > >These folks saw S2, where Jerri >was so sure that she, >Amber, and Colby were the >core alliance, only to see >hear the tribe speak before >all of the Kucha were >gone. Old Boran would >like to be able to >trust that they'll reunite after >the merge, but there's always >room for the paranoia that >things have changed and new >alliances have taken hold. I agree that paranoia can cause people to do strange things, but usually it causes them to be careful and cautious. The careful and cautious thing to do is to stick with the original plan, which seems to be working even better than they could have hoped with old Samburu people dropping like flies. Jerri had reason to think she should stick with her alliance. Amber was a fool, but only got the potential opportunity to switch sides because Colby, Tina and Keith played their hands so soon. KELT will not make that mistake and will only let Kelly and Clarence know they are on the outs when it is too late to do anything. Based on what the old Borans believes, they are better off sticking with the old tribe and they will (I think).   Top

Bebo 21083 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-20-01, 04:03 PM (EST) 32. "RE: "It's not what you see, but...'" LAST EDITED ON 11-20-01 AT 04:04 PM (EST) >I just think we have >pretty good evidence that none >of them will happen. >I will try to take >them one at a time. zzz, You missed my point. We're seeing both sides, and we can debate why X would work and why Y wouldn't be a good idea. The original alliances were broken up -- and they may hold. But, the trust in those alliances that are now cross-tribal can waver. They have NO IDEA what is going on in the other camp during the day. The ideas I presented were merely some of the possibilities that the Survivors could be considering as they are separated from their original alliances. As I said, the viewers seeing both sides may not consider them likely, but the contestants, with their limited perspective, have got to be considering the possibility that those inital alliances are going to break up. * edited to fix some bizarre grammar   Top

zzz 703 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-20-01, 04:26 PM (EST) 34. "RE: "It's not what you see, but...'" Bebo-- I think I got your point, but I admit I was not clear enough in my reply. Your point seemed to be that fear of what might be going on in the other tribe might lead someone to change his or her plans prior to the merge in reaction to this paranoia. My point is that because none of these things will happen, the paranoia will be irrelevant. As long as the tribes are separated, all they can do is speculate about what is going on in the other tribe. The fact that old Samburu keep falling, of course, is a pretty good clue that things are going according to plan if not better. For example, in the E7 RC, Boran will see that Lindsey got booted--proof that Kelly did not defect. So maybe Ethan and KimJ had this fear, but so what, it did not happen and now they can feel safe that Kelly is still on board. There is really nothing you can do about what is going on in the other tribe, so you just keep your alliance in your new tribe (among your old tribe buddies) as stong as possible. Then--once there is a merge (and my best guess is that is will be in E8), you will get back together with your old allies. Old Boran will be at a 6-3 advantage over old Samburu if the merge happens in E8 and any fleeting doubts about the strength of the old Boran alliance will be gone. So the fact that when the tribe were separated you might have had some doubt is IRRELEVANT. They did not come to pass, they were never a factor, and they are no longer a possibility. So while I agree that the twist could have led to unusual behavior and betrayal of old tribal lines based on paranoia, we have pretty good evidence that it didn't happen, and the players will see this before they would have had to respond to such a "betrayal".   Top

MC_Hampster 105 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 11-21-01, 09:50 AM (EST) 48. "RE: "It's not what you see, but...'" I have to say zzz, that I thought you were off your rocker with the 3 tribe idea, but I think your analysis is dead on. I don't think we're going to end up with any cross-tribe alliances, regardless of how much we want to see them happen. -MC   Top

red 140 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 11-20-01, 03:22 PM (EST) 30. "RE: "It's not what you see, but...'" >I agree with most of what >you say, but Kim J. >was definitely more likely to >go--she knew it and Ethan >said it. Kelly didn't flub >a challenge; Kim did. Ethan >told Frank that Kim was >saved by winning the IC >and she knew it. I >don't think there is any >mystery there at all. I knew I was unclear. I'm not questioning that Kim's head was on the chopping block - I'm questioning the theory that she was part of the core alliance and Kelly (who, by the way, did flub the drinking blood challenge) was not. If Kim was part of the core and Kelly on the outskirts, then why would Boran vote off KimJ over Kelly? This is my point. I think we're making assumptions that KimJ was in and Kelly was out, and by default making assumptions about Kim's relationship with Ethan. Ethan, if he planeed to go to the finals with KimJ, could have easily negotiated so that in ep. 3, Kelly would have been the one voted off. > >I don't think MB has shown >enough of Ethan or Lex >to really form any firm >opinions about what they are >thinking or doing. This is a very good point. The only real fact is Ethan's comment that his two closest friends left Boran and their constant references to the bonds they had with their old tribe. Lots of >assumptions have been made about >them I'm guilty as well and we are led >to infer things from Kelly's >confessionals and the bits they >throw our way. Personally I take Kelly's confessionals with a grain of salt - if they revealed anything important we wouldn't be seeing them. They are >sort of in the shadows....perhaps >because they will develop much >later. This is why I make the assumptions I do. Anything not shoved in the audience's fact must be very important. MB doesn't want to give it away. I think that Kim >J. and Ethan are very, >very tight, though. See, I think this is what MB wants us to think, showing Ethan tell KimJ they should throw the challenge etc. We make the assumption because a) they're both Boran now and b) we actually see clips that lead us to believe this. I really see no reason why the switch should cause Ethan to change strategies. Unless he has reason not to trust his former tribe members, and I actually suspect they're pretty trustworthy.   Top

zzz 703 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-20-01, 03:14 PM (EST) 29. "RE: "It's not what you see, but...'" red-- OK--I will try to address your questions and comments. >You think the allies are Lex/Tom >and Ethan/Kim. Do you >think this is just what >we're inclined to believe based >on the random splitting of >tribes? Or do you >think alliances shifted when the >tribe split. I've always >thought the strongest allies are >Lex/Ethan. I have a suspision that it is Ethan/Kim Lex/Tom, but I am not sure. While the fact they they are split this way is not irrelevant, it is not the biggest factor in my opinion. I think that Lex pulling Tom along and Ethan staying behind with KimJ might be an indication of where suballiances go, but my speculation is not really based on that. From my reading about Kelly and Clarence in SI, they seem out of the loop. Logic dictates that LET would need a fourth. The only candidate left is KimJ. Her actions also suggest she is secretly aligned with LET, even Kelly admitted to Clarence she was not sure if she could get KimJ to vote against Lex. LET was formed with Lex telling Ethan that Tom and Lex swore their loyalty over their sons (perhaps foreshowing of a betrayal, but I don't see that yet). I have never seen any evidence that Lex is closer to Ethan than Tom (other than perhaps people asserting that Tom is really on the outs in the alliance--and while Kelly may think this is so, I do not). Ethan knew he needed to bring in a fourth because he could not be the third wheel of the alliance of 3. Furthermore, a 3 person alliance is just not strong enough. So I speculate that he brought KimJ into the alliance. I acknowledge that Ethan said that the two people he was personally closest to went to the other tribe, and as "buddies" that may be true, but I think for strategy purposes he has become quite close to KimJ. My main support for this theory other than the fact that Clarence and Kelly seem to be eliminated as possibilities is the Ethan/KimJ conversation from E4 that I will address below. >As another point, people say the >KimJ possibly leaving if they'd >lost the third immunity challenge >just shows her bond with >Ethan that he'd be so >honest with her that they'd >have to let her go. > However, there's really no >reason why if KimJ was >tight in the alliance and >Kelly wasn't, that Kelly wouldn't >have been the one destined >to go. I think >Kim and Kelly were equally >in/not in at that point. > Kim J is in >an especially good position now >because of the new Boran >breakdown. She's the only >one left with Ethan as >Clarence was always on the >outs. I think she >may think she's in a >better position that she actually >is - however, this is >purely speculation on my part. > I think you have missed the crux of my point about Ethan and KimJ in E4. At that time, they did not know about the twist and believed that there would be 2 more TCs before the merge in E5 and E6. KimJ showed herself to be TERRIBLE in the physical challenges. She could not even get out of the "spider web" roping in a reasonable amount of time. Kelly may not be a terrific athlete, but she is MUCH better than KimJ and never cost them in an athletic challenge the way KimJ did (the blood drinking was not the type of "loss" Kelly may have caused that would be relevant for future challenges). So here you are at E4 already having lost 2 tribe members. If you lose in E4, you are down to 5 members. Your only hope of making it to the merge at least 5-5 would be to win both of the next 2 challenges. If you lose either of them, you are down at least 6-4 and your tribe is doomed (you have no way to know that Samburu is hopelessly divided and 2 members of the OFA would be happy to switch sides--after watching S2, you think you need to go in at least 5-5). You also need to assume that at least one of the challenges in E5 and E6 will be physical. So, if KimJ sticks around after E4, your tribe is almost certainly doomed--your tribe will go down to at best 4 people and will be picked off easily post merge. It is this context that I believe that Ethan and KimJ had an understanding that if Boran lost in E4, KimJ would have to go. It would do no one any good to keep her around just to virtually guarantee the distruction of the entire tribe. That is my reasoning why I believe their talk only makes sense if they were aligned. If they were not aligned, Ethan would owe KimJ no explanation and certainly would have had no reason to tell her that she would be gone if they lost E4. No one has EVER been told point blank (that I am aware of) that they were being voted against. Ethan did this because of his loyalty to her and because she understood and agreed to the plan. Once they got past E4, however, I suspect Ethan would have tried to protect her (although an E5 loss still could have posed a dilemma because an E6 victory would have still be essential). > >As a side, when people speculate, >they should have at least >a few facts to back >up their reasoning as opposed >to just random statements like >"Kim Pee will last because >they won't take Frank or >Brandon and they won't trust >Kelly" etc. Not to >bash your post, but there >just weren't any facts at >all to back up your >theory. You could apply >the same logic to virtually >any player in the game. > Are you talking to me on this one? You say "Not to bash your post" and I am the one you address at the top of your post, so I think you are talking to me. However, your example in which you quote "bad" speculation seems straight out of the post by Wendy that I was criticizing in part for the very reason you pointed out--it had no real facts to back it up. In fact, almost the entire post of mine that you are replying to was just me pointing out to Wendy why I disagreed with her conclusions. I included a quote from Wendy in my post in which she does what you are accusing me of doing, but those are HER words, not mine, I just included them in my post to make it clear what I was responding to. I think I have almost always pointed out the factual basis for my speculation. Please quote directly from my post where I did not do this. Remember that words prefaced with a ">" symbol are quotes from the post you are replying to--not the words of the person posting.   Top

red 140 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 11-20-01, 04:27 PM (EST) 35. "RE: "It's not what you see, but...'" Sorry to confuse you - my final comments were for Wendy, not you. I started out addressing you because I was curious about that specific question and then ended up posting something to someone else and not clarifying. My bad. Also, your explanation about KimJ makes sense. I'm not sure I wholeheartedly agree, but will admit I did in fact miss your point.   Top

zzz 703 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-20-01, 04:42 PM (EST) 36. "RE: "It's not what you see, but...'" red-- Thanks for clearing that up. The comment seemed to be directed at Wendy but the structure of the post made it seem like it was toward me. As far as my thoughts on KimJ, I admit it is based on anything but iron-clad evidence. I just have a pretty good idea from Kelly and Clarence's SI talk, as well as Kelly's latest SI piece that neither is in a "big" alliance of more than 2 people--other than the loose alliance of the whole tribe of old Boran. We all saw LET being formed early on. That only leaves KimJ as a complete mystery, and it makes most sense to me that LET would want a fourth and Ethan and KimJ's discussion led me to feel they were aligned. So that is the crux of my factual support. Not enough to prove anything--just my best guess.   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-20-01, 05:09 PM (EST) 37. "Comment on form" This exchange has gotten awfully long and narrow--in the visual sense! (I'm not critiquing the content.) Even though you are replying to each other, sometimes it helps to take the replies back out to the margin by replying to the original post. Readability counts if you want people to follow the dialogue. Truly I gave up trying to read it and I'm sure it's worthwhile. See, I just made it even narrower as an example ...   Top

zzz 703 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-20-01, 05:35 PM (EST) 38. "Open Message to Outfront Girl" Outfrontgirl-- Thank you for reminding us that we need to keep the form readable. That is one disadvantage of this format. I would suggest that some of the posts that you skipped were actually fairly boring back and forth nitpicking (I think I am becoming famous for perpetuating such back and forth nitpicking--I rarely tire of an intellectual argument no matter how mundane) that is probably only of interest to the people involved in the discussion. However, some of it I think is quite good analysis of how the alliances are shaping up. I recommend when you have the patience to try to wade through it and let me know what you think.   Top

Rose Red 419 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 11-20-01, 06:27 PM (EST) 39. " MAMA K.BOSSES ETHAN" zzz, You are tireless and VERY readable. Do you have a job or is this your job? Anyway, I once again commend everyone to your definitive analysis above on this thread. I feel like we can all go home now. Game over. But of course, it's not. WE'RE GONNA BE DOING THIS TIL JANAUARY! I just wanted to point out a little fact-ette vis a vis the throwing of the puzzle immunity challenge to oust Silas, as a "fact" showing Mamakim's and Ethan's bond. Didn't SHE tell him to do this? People think it was his idea, but I seem to remember she TOLD him that they should do this, and he resisted saying something like "I'm a professional athlete!I can't do that. What are you asking me to do? I've never done that in my life." Leading us all to believe he wouldn't do, BUT HE DID. He did exactly what his Mamakim told him. I think all of the L/E/T guys like her. She just wasn't physically strong, but mentally... Didn't she come up with painting the mosquito nets in the S.O.S. competition? So agree with your analysis of everything, but it's only Thanksgiving. I'm just so sure EPMB has a few more "Twists" up his sleeve that might propell, say Frank and Kim Pee into places they never would be if the game is continued to be played traditionally. But somehow I don't think it will be. It's too easy now. Too predictable. The word MB hates more than any other word in the English language. "Predictable" translates to LOWER RATINGS. Also, another fact, Mamakim and Ethan HAVE HAD to bond. They have had no choice. Also, Ethan must be so bummed that Lex and Tom left him behind that day. Pardon my french, but I think that was part of wanting to get off by themselves with the cute young girl, i.e. Kelly. Well, they got their wish, didn't they? And Tom is not as dumb as he looks or sounds.   Top

red 140 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 11-20-01, 06:34 PM (EST) 40. "RE: MAMA K.BOSSES ETHAN" I just want to clarify that KimJ did not tell Ethan to throw the challenge. All we were shown was a clip of Ethan saying something like "You know I would never suggest throwing anything, I'm an athlete, but I really think we need to throw this one." KimJ nods or something in agreement. You're allowing wishful thinking to cloud your memory.   Top

Serendipity 525 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-20-01, 08:09 PM (EST) 41. "RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six" Double wishful thinking. Ethan was the one who chose who would go on the "quest". There goes the Lex and Tom want a pretty girl theory.   Top

NorthOfBoston 158 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 11-20-01, 08:50 PM (EST) 42. "RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six" Hi Long time reader, first time poster Here is my take on the Ethan-Kelly-Lex-Mama Kim-Tom situation: According to the Insider clips in episode 2, Ethan and Jessie were having some sort of secret midnight trist, and Kelly was worried about it (she threatens that if she is voted off because Ethan is "getting laid," she will pelt him with rocks after the show). HOWEVER Ethan still voted Jessie out. Early clips of Ethan reveal that he believes he has the power to "woo" women into trusting him. Kelly appears to be set up as his feminist twin, a girl whose pastimes include "manipulating men." Now, stick with me: if you pay attention to the two of them in episode 3, aka post-Jessie, there are a number of shots where Ethan and Kelly are sitting together and/or talking together in the background; there is another clip on the Insider of the two of them walking with Tom. In this clip, Tom is ranting on about something sexist or racist or whatever his hickville mind is spurning at the time, and Kelly and Ethan are looking on and mock-laughing. I say MOCK laughing because I am either reading into it or because (more likely) both are on the same page in their annoyance of his Good Ol Boy comments (see: Insider clip where Tom confuses Ethan's hacky-sack with a yamuka ). My take on this progression between Ethan and Kelly: THEY are a secret alliance. I think Ethan's "two close friends" that left to Samburu are not Lex and Tom as we are led to believe from the show, but actually Lex and Kelly. Also, if you listen to Kelly's confessions on Insider, you'll notice that she never really mentions her relationship with Ethan in any revealing way. She says she will vote for Lex and Ethan in episode 2, but only if they would be voting for her. I think this will play out later in the show (if Kelly survives, as I hope she does). I really hated Kelly in the start of the season as I was quite annoyed that someone from La Jolla, one of the wealthiest cities in California, would play for a million dollars; however, her Insider clips are very amusing and frank, so I've gained new respect for her. Incidentally, I'll be driving by the Zohn household on Thanksgiving (I'm right next to Lexington) and will check for any new cars in the driveway hahahaha Just kidding, Lexington police!   Top

Rose Red 419 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 11-21-01, 01:27 AM (EST) 43. "Kelly and Ethan? Ethan and FRANK?" Hi, first time poster! Yes, by all means drive by the Zohn zone on Thanksgiving, and let us know what's up. I've heard a lot of speculation about the Ethan/Kelly connection, but this is the first one that convinced me that there may actually be one. Also, I think you are right in noting that Ethan thinks he can romance all the girls. But also note that he's been voting women off first, when he can. He seems to prefer and trust the company of men. Or an older woman like Mamakim. Actually, there are six original Borons left. There's only been two voted off- the obviously ill Diane and Jessie. That is an INCREDIBLE advantage going in to the merge, if there is one. And why do I think EPMB is going to shake all this up? Certainly, by delaying the merge, as it seems to be indicated everywhere, he's eliminating ANOTHER Sambooboo. Teresa being the overwhelming candidate for going ba bye this ep., but I wonder... Someone pointed out somewhere that there was a rythmn of the unexpected then expected to the vote-offs. After the screamingly obvious Lindsey exit last week, we can't be in for ANOTHER incredibly predictable swan song this week,i.e. Teresa, can we? There's something more than just the postponed merge going on in the upcoming ep. this week. Otherwise we would've seen the RC or the IC. That really does mean something is up. And it might be ANOTHER big rule change. Back to the supposed love-birds Ethan and Kelly. Well, they're both Jewish. They're both smart, and Ethan is a babe magnet, obviously. He, who seems like he's telling EVERYONE in his tribe what to do, might feel threatened at the end by the Tom/Lex swearing-on- the-name's-of-each-others'-sons bond. He might want to break that up, if he has the chance. But can he trust these three L/T/K who've been through what they've been through with their Sammie exile? L/T/K might be thicker than glue by the end. But you're probably right. Kelly does seem to like Ethan more than we're being shown. And who would Ethan want to sit next to him at the final two, though? Somehow I think he doesn't want a woman up against him. And both Lex and Tom might be too sympathetic. Does that mean FRANK is on Ethan's short list for best bud? This would fit in with Lindsey comment to Howard Stern when he asked her who won and she said "Don't make me cry?" Could Ethan and FRANK be the final two? If I also may point out something else about Ethan, and correct me if I'm wrong, there hasn't been ANY real press on him since the show started. Kelly's mother has a weekly spot on a San Diego media outlet(I can't remember if it's radio or TV). We know that she and Silas are watching the show together in Hollywod(where they both now live). Clarence has been interviewed and been spotted in Detroit, where he is still coaching basketball. Lex is reported on weekly in a Santa Cruz paper. Tom has several locals writing about him in his hometown, but where is Ethan these days? Also,there's been nothing on Mamakim. Could they both be laying low for a reason? THEY are the final two? But I don't think Ethan would let that happen after the Tina-Colby vote last year. He'd know they'd vote for the older, more sympathetic woman, like they did with Tina. Is a five person jury too small? Does it matter that there are seven jurors?   Top

herewiss13 8 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 11-21-01, 02:41 AM (EST) 44. "RE: Kelly and Ethan? Ethan and FRANK?" >Certainly, by delaying the merge, as it seems to be indicated >everywhere, he's eliminating ANOTHER Sambooboo. Teresa being >the overwhelming candidate for going ba bye this ep., but I >wonder... Someone pointed out somewhere that there was a rythmn >of the unexpected then expected to the vote-offs. After the >screamingly obvious Lindsey exit last week, we can't be in for >ANOTHER incredibly predictable swan song this week,i.e. Teresa, >can we? I'd like to just jump in here, if I may, and point out that Teresa is only obvious to the spoiler community. The viewers at large don't even know which tribe (if they don't merge) will win the IC! (come to think of it...neither do we<g>) If you look at the poll on the main page, you'll see that more people think Brandon or Clarence will go next than they do Teresa. So, while a strong 3rd choice, she's not (in people's minds) a certainty. I _do_ happen to think it'll be Teresa, based on the info everyone has supplied, but that doesn't mean it's a predictable move. Eric P.S. I try to keep the scenario spinning to an absolute minimum, but wouldn't be ironic if Teresa went back to Samburu in that 1 to 1 trade some people brought up...and _still_ got voted out? We wouldn't have seen _that_ coming! <beg>   Top

King William 38 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 11-21-01, 04:35 AM (EST) 45. "LETKK " >Long time reader, first time poster > Welcome. not that I've been posting long, but... >Here is my take on the >Ethan-Kelly-Lex-Mama Kim-Tom situation: > >My take on this progression between Ethan and Kelly: THEY are >a secret alliance. I think Ethan's "two close friends" >that left to Samburu are not Lex and Tom as >we are led to believe from the show, but actually >Lex and Kelly. Also, if you listen to Kelly's >confessions on Insider, you'll notice that she never really >mentions her relationship with Ethan in any revealing way. Okay many are suggesting that Tom is an outsider as opposed to LET being the dominant alliance, which I'm not sure I agree with, but if tom is destined to go before the final two then So one real big question fro this entire group is who can you bring with you to the final two. The answers are 1) a surprise betrayer of the five (throws everything out the window, have to bring cobetrayer to final two to stand much chance.) 2) Brandon 3) Frank 4) Clarence (unlikely, b/c too strong, can't be sure of last win.) 5)maybe Tom (unlikely seems well liked) Remember the jury (7 member version) will be the rest of these, Lil Kim, and the others of the 5 borans. You can't count on your former allies votes too much, at the moment I'd say Brandon is the most likely to be taken to the finals but Frank is another good possibility. Frank loses B and Lil Kim's votes. Mamakim or Ethan might vote to give the money to Frank though, so might others once they meet him. CB even likes him. Brandon loses Frank and probably Tom's votes. Lex and Kelly aren't wild about him yet, depends on betrayal w/i Boran. Mama Kim won't like him. Ethan _might_ feel for him. CB probably won't be wild about him, but will pick him over his teammates. Lil kim will be his only sure vote. So I think the final six are LETKKB. Brandi will _probably_ put his vote wherever Kelly says. My gut says Ethan or Lex, The Girls need them gone to win the last two times. Kelly and Ethan in a secret alliance just doen't work well for her at this point. EKB or even EKKB means a mil for Ethan most likely. LETB works even better than before. they vote off Tom and the better man wins the mil. I mean that is the single thing that seperates these people from season two. All five want the money and are not going to give it away. I think at least E and K are still playing every angle in the five way and trying to come up with the win. Ethan _will_ betray someone though. Paranoid people are usually that way because they're willing to screw people to win so when they look at everyone else they see people who can possibly screw them intead. Oh well. too much for me. King William   Top

PepeLePew13 26134 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-21-01, 08:05 AM (EST) 47. "RE: Survivor Insider, Week Six" >My take on this progression between Ethan and Kelly: THEY >are a secret alliance. I think Ethan's "two close friends" >that left to Samburu are not Lex and Tom as we are led to >believe from the show, but actually Lex and Kelly. Also, >if you listen to Kelly's confessions on Insider, you'll >notice that she never really mentions her relationship >with Ethan in any revealing way. She says she will vote >for Lex and Ethan in episode 2, but but only if they would >be voting for her. I think this will play out later in >the show (if Kelly survives, as I hope she does). Welcome, NoBoston... This is actually an excellent point to watch for in the next few episodes to see how this plays out. You're right, we have not seen much of a relationship on TV between Ethan and Kelly to date and it could very well be correct in that E/K (or L/E/K in my opinion) is the major secret alliance that is being hidden by MB. NoBoston, how do you see others (i.e. Tom, MamaKim, Clarence, Frank) fitting in with Ethan and Kelly (and Lex?) in terms of the alliance picture? "Damn you, Carl, for leaving me here with a bunch of misfits." Frank Garrison, Nov. 1/01   Top

King William 38 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 11-21-01, 05:57 AM (EST) 46. "Ethan's game" I think I just figured out what wasn't clicking before in the way I was thinking of the Boran 5. The facts as we know them: 1) Lex and Tom formed an alliance, then asked Ethan to join. 2) This alliance is seen as the strongest in the game on TV at this point. IMO, I don't think MB would show us the winning alliance so early. 3) Whether Lex and Tom mean't to or not, they've made Ethan worry that he's not the core 2 of this alliance. 4) Ethan is freaky paranoid. He will probably cover his own butt first. 5) Kelly thinks she's allied with Ethan, but thinks Big Tom is out. 6) Ethan wants to win. Okay big reach now, Ethan's paranoia is a result of two things. First, being third into the alliance, he is afraid Lex and Tom will leave him back at the finals. Second, to counter that, he plans to betray them. Yes, I really think that he is going to try the Jerriboot on Lex (the more threatening of the two. He has seperate but equal alliances with MamaKim and Kelly to counter the pair. Assume Pagong (may not be a valid assumption, but...) If he decides that Lex/Tom are a real pair, and I think he will, Ethan can get rid of Lex at the six or five person stage then. One Orig Boran left (pos. Frank, who will be "liked" by all by then). Note Ethan has been working on a bond with him too. This maximizes Ethan's chances of winning the mil. He is the strongest then, can go in against Kelly (It worked for Rich), or maybe the Boran leftover as long it's not Mama or Lex, he stands a chance. He might even get Lex's vote out of respect for gameplaying, IMO. It could fall apart on him if Kelly or Mama don't stay loyal after the merge, or after the screw Lex manuever, but no signs of that so far. It fits well with what we know, and doesn't require anyone to break the Boring alliance (which its true, zzz, hasn't happened yet in any survivor). Don't know why I didn't see it before, probably b/c it makes some sense. King William   Top

NorthOfBoston 158 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 11-21-01, 03:39 PM (EST) 50. "RE: Ethan's game" Actually, on second thought, after re-reading King William's analysis, I think it's more on target in terms of an Ethan-Lex analysis. You're right, paranoid people do tend to over-react in self-preservation. I wouldn't be surprised if Ethan wises up to getting rid of Lex sooner rather than later! PS: Maybe tomorrow I'll run up on the Zohn lawn and pretend to steal their Welcome mat and see how the E-stud reacts   Top

NorthOfBoston 158 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 11-21-01, 03:21 PM (EST) 49. "Kelly and Ethan, who can they trust?" PepeLePew13, after much thought, here is my take on the Ethan-Kelly vs. Tom/Clarence/Mama Kim/Lex/Frank scenario: Tom: Again, he's amusing for the time being, but I think he's thought of as more of a Yorick character as far as Kelly is concerned. He's a sexist pig, but he's colorful enough to keep around for now. Besides, he's a "wild card" (see Kelly's Insider, episode 2); thus, he may possibly be manipulated. I think Ethan sees his wildcard status as an opportunity too, and will tolerate him, for now. Also, Tom is now alone with Lex, which poses a different problem for Ethan (see Lex, below) Clarence: Kelly theorizes on Insider that perhaps the reason why she dislikes C is because she sees a lot of herself in him. I suspect E doesn't like C because C appears more athletic than E, and having someone who is 1) more important to the tribe in premerge challenges and 2) very likely to win postmerge challenges makes him feel inferior (see: on-going inferiority complex slash penis envy in Insider's "Ethan's Witch Dr."). However, both K & E are "angle-rs" and will see how they can play C to their own advantages. I think Kelly has a greater chance at succeeding at the task because she does not have to compete w/C in the battle of the male egos. If she's smart, she'll use that to her advantage. MamaKim: Yes, I think E is forming some sort of bond with her, but I wouldn't call it an alliance; after all, she's the only Boran left on his tribe (arch-nemesis C doesn't count). I think all of old Boran like MK. However, she knows she's expendable and that's why she gave the L sign to Kelly: to prove her worth. But let's face it, you can screw up one challenge and get through it (remember Tina and the cow stomach vomit?), but two mistakes (basket game & "I know this one!" NOT! trivia flub)? You don't deserve to be here. I doubt E will turn on her by his own choice, but L/T/Ke will eventually (maybe Ke sooner than later, given her false information about MK's votes to GXA), and E will be forced to comply. She is only valuable until there is no danger of old Samburu dominating the merge. An Amber character, perhaps. Lex: I've always thought Lex would be in the final two (even from ep 1), and my feelings haven't swayed (call it a gut feeling). He's a natural leader and doesn't excel nor fail at anything. E is drawn to L because of these traits and feels L is his ticket up the ladder. I think seeing L go to Samburu was E's worst nightmare and I wouldn't be surprised if there is extra footage out there showing Ethan crying during episode 5. But seriously, E better wise up: once the tribes merge, L is his worst enemy. Kelly has thought ahead: why else would she try to sway GXA's votes toward L and not Tom? She knows Tom is too annoying to be tolerated for much longer, but L is a leader and is one of her toughest competitors. As far as the Lex-Tom "swear on our sons" promise, I'd take it with a grain of salt. When the survivors first learned who their tribe members were, I'm sure the first thing on their minds was making alliances. T and L are of similar age (compared to E, K, and C) and have something in common: sons; so why not play on it? Maybe Tom thinks the promise will go the distance, but somehow I think Lex will "forget" it. And Frank? Well, I don't know how Frank will fit into all of this. I think it depends on who is voted out in ep 7. Without Teresa, F will focus all of his energy on Ethan, who may try to warm F up to L/T/Ke post-merge. On the other hand, L/T/Ke have been led to believe by GXA that F cannot be trusted, and therefore, I think he may be picked off just for safety reasons. On a side note, I'm sure F is a very nice guy in real life, but on the show he comes off as that annoying co-worker and/or relative we all have in our lives; you know: a potpourri of delusions of grandeur and endless monotone monologues. I can't imagine his tribemates putting up with him much longer. Oh, and I know this is dreadfully long, but I wanted to make one more point. Let's face it, gender politics are playing more of a role in this Survivor than in previous. Tom is a sexist pig, Kelly feels she's patronized by the Boran men, Ethan went into the game planning to manipulate the women, Lindsey and Kim P really want a woman to do well, Clarence pities Jessie because her little frame couldn't carry the firewood, and Lex feels his new tribe is substandard because of the lack of male strength etc etc. I think Ethan voted off Diane and Jessie because that's what he was supposed to do (remember Kelly's analysis of ep 2's TC? She said LEX said Ethan would vote for Jessie; translation: E is predictable only if in his need to be with the group). I think E might very well take it all if he pulls a Colby, but if he doesn't, he'd better get his paranoia in check to stay alive! ps: Don't be surprised if Kelly and Ethan have a little mosquito net sharing of their own: I think it's the Maddie-and-David, Sam-and-Diane kind of tryst good television needs. Are you listening, MB?   Top

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