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CatM 10 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 11-16-01, 02:49 PM (EST) "About the Possible Merge" This is from the CBS Website: http://finishedbiz.cjb.net/ Look at number 2 on the FAQ: 2. Will there always be two teams? No. Beginning in episode seven, the two teams merge. The remaining Survivors, accustomed to thinking of each other as "the enemy" or members of the "other team" will come to live together and compete as individuals. At that point, the challenges become person against person, as opposed to team against team; only the winning individual will receive a reward and/or immunity. ____________________________________________________________ MB can pretend that he always intended to shake up the tribes in Episode 3, but any change to the merger is an obvious manipulation since it contradicts the show's own FAQ. Cat   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: About the Possible Merge MDSkinner 11-16-01 1    RE: About the Possible Merge CatM 11-16-01 2        RE: About the Possible Merge ChipK2 11-16-01 4            RE: About the Possible Merge CatM 11-16-01 5                RE: About the Possible Merge ChipK2 11-16-01 6                    RE: About the Possible Merge CatM 11-17-01 9                    RE: About the Possible Merge katem 11-17-01 10                        RE: About the Possible Merge CatM 11-17-01 11                            RE: About the Possible Merge Loree 11-17-01 12                                RE: About the Possible Merge CatM 11-17-01 14  RE: About the Possible Merge red 11-16-01 3    RE: About the Possible Merge herewiss13 11-17-01 7        RE: About the Possible Merge Naked 11-17-01 8            RE: About the Possible Merge Loree 11-17-01 13

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MDSkinner 716 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-16-01, 03:32 PM (EST) 1. "RE: About the Possible Merge" LAST EDITED ON 11-16-01 AT 03:33 PM (EST) Someone already posted this in this thread: http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID2/1769.shtml I believe none of us is sure that it really matters, for the simple fact that MB is capable of damn near anything at this point.   Top

CatM 10 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 11-16-01, 03:39 PM (EST) 2. "RE: About the Possible Merge" Ah, I missed that thread, thanks. MB is definitely capable of doing anything he wants...but does he want to leave with his pride intact like Lindsey? I think he has really damaged Survivor's credibility as a game show, moving it closer to the pure entertainment category. (Maybe that's his way to deal with Stillman's lawsuit?) It has gotten to the point where last night I found myself wondering whether the egg had been planted in the coop. If he does something else, I think he will turn off a lot of diehard Survivor fans. Cat   Top

ChipK2 12 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 11-16-01, 04:49 PM (EST) 4. "RE: About the Possible Merge" Lindsey confirmed that MB decided on the switch BEFORE the show started. I really don't think he decides on major changes like that DURING the filming. There's just too much going on handling the production. An unplanned change could mean he loses control of the production and that costs time and money! Each version of MB's Survivor has added a pre-planned change to the format. Each of the changes has existed in a foreign predicessor of the game. I think it's great that he does this, otherwise the contestants would have everything figured out and the OUTWIT can be taken off the logo. In RL survival, adaptability is essential. MB has made that essential in his game show also. Neither myself nor any of the other survivor fans I talk to is "turned off" by this. (in fact we were cheering and enjoying the uncertainty it caused) If this got to be another S2, I'd probably turn off a LOT of the episodes, because there's no Elisabeth on S3 *grin*   Top

CatM 10 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 11-16-01, 08:42 PM (EST) 5. "RE: About the Possible Merge" I am surprised that nobody you know was disappointed at MB's manuevering. Certainly many of the internet writers I read saw it as nothing more than a cheap move intended to boost ratings and I have seen several complaints about it elsewhere. Of course I have seen some reviewers and fans who praised the move, although not as many, so I think the reviews are pretty evenly split. I'm not sure I'd give credence to anything said by Lindsey. How would she know that MB had planned the switch prior to filming? He obviously didn't tell her ahead of time. I'm sure she'd say whatever he wanted her to say. As for financial concerns, the switch did not alter anything that would involve how the show was filmed so financially it would not make any difference. I still think it is a lousy ploy; as the ET Online writer said, it's like changing the baseball game in the 7th inning. The idea is to outwit each other, not to be outwitted by the producer. And you cannot plan an effective strategy if you are not familiar with the rules. One more thought about MB and the switch. He just doesn't seem the type to have made no mention of it prior to airing; that is, I think he would have said 'Watch for some really big surprises in Survivor 3!' Or 'Survivor 3 will be a whole different game' (instead Jeff early on commented that it was the same game). That might have drawn more people in from the very beginning. Yet they wait until Episode 4 to tell people there is a big surprise coming. I find that an odd promotional strategy.   Top

ChipK2 12 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 11-16-01, 09:36 PM (EST) 6. "RE: About the Possible Merge" I think the reason S1 was so popular was 1) it was so different from anything else we've seen (except on MTV *grin*) and 2) it could be perceived, analized and enjoyed from so many different perspectives (unlike many other BOORING RL shows like BB). We say people facing so many UNKNOWNS (people, environment, games) and having to learn, adapt and overcome them. Survival isn't about RULES, it's about making it thru the next challenge. What is there to outwit if you already know everything? If S2 and then S3 were the same as S1, except the new contestants had seen the previous shows and removed all the unknowns, we're back to BOOORING - like BB in the wilderness. S2 came close to that once the tiebreaker was won at the merge. Each time there were just enough changes to the game to keep the contestants unbalanced - to recreate the wonderful sense of adventure and feeling your way thru the dark that S1 had. This HAS to be part of the master plan for Survivor. To keep it fresh and exciting to both the players and viewers. Like a sports event, if you know the outcome already it is VERY hard to waste the time to watch it. Baseball is a lousy example. The only "outwit" is the pitcher/batter battle and substitutions - the rest is all athletic. If that's what you are looking for I think you will continue to be dissapointed in the future versions of Survivor. If S2 and S3 and S4 were exactly the same as S1 except the players knew all the rules I would have stopped watching long ago. PS: I am POSITIVE that Brandon would have been VERY surprised at the tiebreaker if they hadn't given up Lindsey.   Top

CatM 10 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 11-17-01, 10:45 AM (EST) 9. "RE: About the Possible Merge" And we will never see this the same way because we both find different things interesting. I like to watch Jeopardy. The questions change, the contestants change, but the format of the show is the same every time. Yet over the YEARS of watching it, I have not lost interest in it. And apparently many people feel the same way because shows like Jeopardy, Wheel of Fortune and Price is Right (of those I only watch Jeopardy) are still around. Lately I have started to watch Weakest Link. Almost everything is static except the personalities of the contestants. And I am not yet bored. Survivor 4 or 5 would not be boring to me if they adhered to the rules because so many other variables have changed. We have different personalities, different locations and circumstances that they have to deal with, and if the producers are clever, different challenges. I also think that you did not any more "know" the outcome of Survivor 3 before the switch than you know it now. (That sentence sounds sooo awkward but I hope you understand what I am trying to say.) During Survivor 2, everyone assumed that Ogakar was going to get picked off by Kucha one by one until Mike got hurt. And then Kucha was picked off one by one, although Jerri was dumped before some of the Kucha members for obvious reasons. The unknown in this game should be the contestants' behavior and the elements. That is what is interesting. Watching Colby tell Jerri that the two of them were in it until the end and then watching him vote her off when he no longer needed her was interesting. We assume that Frank and Teresa would have been the next ones gone on Samburu. But maybe they could have won immunity once or twice and only one of them (or neither) would have been gone at merge. The other could have aligned himself with Boran and helped pick off the lazy ass Samburus. It was really still anybody's game. Sometimes I enjoy mysteries even if I know who the perpetrator is from early on. I enjoy watching the game -- how the story plays out, how the net is drawn, and seeing wether he is caught in the end or escapes due to some unknown.   Top

katem 3315 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 11-17-01, 11:58 AM (EST) 10. "RE: About the Possible Merge" LAST EDITED ON 11-17-01 AT 12:07 PM (EST) ChipK2, finally a line of reasoning about the new changes on the show that I can relate to. I totally agree with your line of thinking, the game needed a boost, in a major way, otherwise is the same old thing. I respect everyone's opinion, especially of quite of few of the very intelligent people that post on these boards, but how can they not see this and complain that the changes were unfair, I cannot understand it. And besides, the people that have gotten eliminated thus far, have all been people that the grand majority could not stand (Silas and Lindsey.) Anyway, great commentary on your part. Totally agree. I am editing this to add a comment to CatM. You mention that people watch game shows like Jeopardy, Wheel of Fortune, Price is Right and Weakest Link, because of the personalities, that the games almost never change. Well those games (with the exception of Weakest Link), involve very little or no strategy. Survivor on the hand cannot go on without it, and as has been stated the players have perfected the way they strategized, it had become the same game with different people. A show like Weakest Link has gone down in the ratings because of this sameness, this lost "innocence" that the show had when it first began, the players always keep the true strongest link until the last vote off round and then boot him or her, it never fails to happen. Same was happening on Survivor. I for one welcome the change, I do not think it really destroyed the Old Boran alliances, I think they actually got stronger, because they were a strong tribe to begin with. Samburu is being eliminated because they were not. It was an interesting wrinkle to aging game.   Top

CatM 10 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 11-17-01, 03:38 PM (EST) 11. "RE: About the Possible Merge" Ok, substitute football, if you like, or even Scrabble, both of which involve strategy. These games have been around for years with few, if any, changes. They are still interesting to many. The game is not the same once you change the people and the environment. There are just so many variables here. What I DO think makes the show boring is the change in editing to focus more on the soap opera aspects instead of the Survival aspects. I think if MB did a better job of using the material that he has (some of the Insider Edition tidbits are FAR more interesting than what we have seen on the show), I think he wouldn't have to resort to gimmicky things like mid-season rule changes. It wasn't MB's job to throw a monkey wrench into the works. Last season, Mike Skupin did that by falling into the fire. And then there was the flood...not to mention that they ran out of food from eating too much early on. Let a stampede of elephants or a nasty case of dysentery or even a friend turned traitor be the excitement in the series. Not some manipulative, unfair, somewhat absurd rule change. As for Survivor being a game of strategy, that is exactly my issue with this. In a game of strategy, people have to know the rules in advance so they can strategize. The strategy for the entire first half of the game was nullified for each individual because of the rule change (pretty much what Ethan said). They had to start all over. And now nothing is certain, but it should be. I just think it is very poor sportsmanship to change the rules of a game in the middle. If he wanted to do this, he should have told them at the very beginning that somewhere down the line, the tribes could or would be reassigned. And he definitely should NOT change the date of the merge because they rationed their food and for what if there is a delayed merge? What good was that strategy? Cat   Top

Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-17-01, 05:26 PM (EST) 12. "RE: About the Possible Merge" If MB had told them in advance that the teams could be switched then it would not have been the same when 3 members were told to go meet Jeff. They would have realized what it was and picked certain people to leave. This caught them unaware and was more interesting. I wonder if the people competing on S4 heard about this switch in time? Probably not so it can be done to them too and catch them off guard. But if there is ever a S5 the players will be expecting a switch.   Top

CatM 10 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 11-17-01, 08:13 PM (EST) 14. "RE: About the Possible Merge" Of course it wouldn't have been the same. But that doesn't necessarily mean it would not have been as good. Actually I did not think it was good to begin with...however, it simply would have brought other elements into play. If you were Samburu would you send three young people, knowing they are tight, or the older people just to get rid of them, knowing they could ally with the others? Watching others make crucial decisions can be interesting. Cat   Top

red 140 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 11-16-01, 03:40 PM (EST) 3. "RE: About the Possible Merge" The problem with the merge happening next week is I can't make sense of Teresa being booted. (Assuming the Diane list can be viewed as a spoiler.) Clarence is the obvious choice for post merge - unless he wins immunity. But even so, it seems strange manouverings to end up T over Kimp or Brandon. She is, however, Ethan's only possible choice for a Boran Tribal Council. All signs seem to point to T followed by Clarence which fits an episode eight merge. Also, if you're going to play around with merger, on some level ep. 8 seems a good fit since the merge includes only the final two and the jury. The problem is that some people who may end up on jury could have only three days to get to know the people they may be voting for, rather than six.   Top

herewiss13 8 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 11-17-01, 01:45 AM (EST) 7. "RE: About the Possible Merge" I think people over-rate Clarence's threat. Colby was bright as well as strong. Clarence _might_ win a purely physical IC, but anything more sophisticated would probably be beyond him. So that's why he's not going to be voted off. He makes a perfect patsy. I can see LETmK keeping him along for some time, just keeping tabs on him to make sure he isn't being recruited by another alliance. He might be eliminated for a number of reasons, but I can't see where Ethan et. al. would consider him a serious individual threat. Eric   Top

Naked 887 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 11-17-01, 02:26 AM (EST) 8. "RE: About the Possible Merge" Clarence is not that much of a threat for an immunity stretch. And if it where you playing wouldn't you like to be sitting next to him with a group of OB's (Original Borans) on a jury deciding to give out 1 million dollars to either you, or the food theif? I think that LET might be thinking that exact same thing.   Top

Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-17-01, 05:34 PM (EST) 13. "RE: About the Possible Merge" I agree that Clarence would be better to keep around for awhile. I think the main Boran alliance thinks they can manipulate Clarence and tell him who to vote for and he will comply. So he isn't that serious a threat. Clarence is strong. But alot of the challenges need agility, speed, brains, balance, etc. He may not be the best at most of these. We don't know. It does depend what kind of challenges MB has up his sleeve. I would want to get rid of the people that I thought may vote against me. I think Clarence would follow the vote of the LET group or whoever is in charge. Plus with Ethan and Tom reminding everyone that Clarence is a bean thief he probably wouldn't beat them in a final vote.   Top

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