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"Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
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I_AM_SHOCKED 50 desperate attention whore postings
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05-07-03, 03:11 AM (EST)
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"Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
Kim Kim Kim....I will get to you later.

Clay clay clay...if you wanted to announce to the world you were a bottom, you couldn't have done any better even if you threw your legs over your shoulders and screamed F*** Me. What the hell was that pansey assed wiggle jiggley thing? get some dancing lessons dawg. Still Your Safe because their are enough lonely woman who thin that they can turn you around and they will probably vote you through this round....maybe.

Ruebin Ruebin Ruebin...eh same s*** different show. Still you are safe, because your fans panicked after last week and will vote extra hard tonight.

Josh joppish hippo...Look you need to stop with that gimme gimme gimme thing because if you don't i am going to come on the show and break all ten of your little piggies. And Dear God, WHy oh why can Liza Minelli fall off a stage and break her leg, but this bouncey flounce cellulite sack doesn't trip just once while he is doing his weekly lets run though the audience channeling a bad garth brooks and hoping to distract them from the fact the notes are off key? Still you are the devil incarnate and the dark powers of the world will conspire to keep you on the show to the very end and i hope we go to war with another country real soon, because you can't worm your way out of it by being on American Idol again....what will you do in the next conflict? Survivor?


Ok back to kim.

Kim Kim Kim...I sort of liked kim back a few shows, but tonights performances were weeeeeek. And in song two your VOICE CRACKED AS YOU WENT INTO FALSETTO!!!!

I am now convinced that Ternyce has a much better singing voice than your's. Actually thinking back, Kims voice is a little bronchitisy at times without having the power where she needs it. Yeah she can belt a couple of notes and do the up and down thing, but so could ternyce, and Ternyce could start out strong...something kim just can't seem to do. Sorry Honey, you are in trouble because you never really developed a fan base to catch you when you stumble. You were counting on Josh sucking as hard as usual tonight...bad bet.

Ofcourse it could be clay that goes (which would be great for his career actually...let the best singer go while there is still a freak show...lots of dissappointment talk and anger translates to big publicity for you and big sales for yor first album), and then it would be American Widol for the rest of the season...which would be kind of funny...cause there is a good chance one of the three fattys might burst from the pressure on stage...gah...can you imagine simon giving them cpr?

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. I_AM_SHOCKED 05-07-03 1
   RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. I_AM_HE 05-07-03 2
   RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. SaphireLady 05-07-03 3
       RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. TechNoir 05-07-03 4
           RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. I_AM_SHOCKED 05-07-03 6
               RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. Femme 05-08-03 11
   RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. TechNoir 05-07-03 5
   RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. dangerkitty 05-08-03 9
       RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. 712 05-08-03 12
           RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. PrettyInPink 05-08-03 13
 RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. GeorgiaBelle 05-07-03 7
   RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. I_AM_SHOCKED 05-07-03 8
   RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. drawde236 05-08-03 10
       RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. PrettyInPink 05-08-03 14
           RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. buckeyegirl 05-08-03 16
       RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. lilgypsy 05-08-03 15
           RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. I_AM_SHOCKED 05-08-03 17
               RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. Bebo 05-08-03 18
                   RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. I_AM_SHOCKED 05-08-03 19
                       RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. Bebo 05-08-03 20
                           RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. I_AM_SHOCKED 05-08-03 29
                       RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. GeorgiaBelle 05-08-03 21
                           RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. I_AM_SHOCKED 05-08-03 34
               RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. PrettyInPink 05-08-03 22
                   RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. I_AM_SHOCKED 05-08-03 35
                   RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. I_AM_SHOCKED 05-08-03 36
               RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. katem 05-08-03 24
                   RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. I_AM_SHOCKED 05-08-03 39
       RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. I_AM_SHOCKED 05-08-03 32
   Agree tig_ger 05-08-03 23
 RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. TODDLJ 05-08-03 25
   RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. lilgypsy 05-08-03 26
   RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. tig_ger 05-08-03 27
       RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. I_AM_SHOCKED 05-08-03 28
           RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. tig_ger 05-08-03 31
               RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. I_AM_SHOCKED 05-08-03 33
                   RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. tig_ger 05-08-03 37
                       RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. I_AM_SHOCKED 05-08-03 38
                           RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. Bebo 05-09-03 40
   RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. I_AM_SHOCKED 05-08-03 30
       RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. TODDLJ 05-09-03 41
           YES!!!! Thank you Larry GeorgiaBelle 05-09-03 42
               RE: YES!!!! Thank you Larry Bebo 05-09-03 43
                   RE: YES!!!! Thank you Larry GeorgiaBelle 05-09-03 44
               RE: YES!!!! Thank you Larry for sta... I_AM_SHOCKED 05-09-03 46
           RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. I_AM_SHOCKED 05-09-03 45
           RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. I_AM_SHOCKED 05-09-03 47
               RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. TODDLJ 05-09-03 48
                   RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. I_AM_SHOCKED 05-09-03 50
                   RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. I_AM_SHOCKED 05-09-03 52
               RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. I_AM_SHOCKED 05-09-03 49
                   RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. TODDLJ 05-09-03 51
                       RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. I_AM_SHOCKED 05-09-03 53
                       RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. I_AM_SHOCKED 05-09-03 54
                           RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. TODDLJ 05-09-03 55
                               RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it. I_AM_SHOCKED 05-09-03 56

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I_AM_SHOCKED 50 desperate attention whore postings
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05-07-03, 09:05 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
DOH!!! There is a higher power in the universe.

Did any one else notice:

1) How fast Ryan got the "Josh your out" out of his mouth?

2) Josh doing a situp in his goodbye video? as if.

3) The progressive increase in Josh's 3rd chin girth as the clips progressed?

Is any one else suspicious that the producers adjusted the votes to get rid of Josh because they wanted to make sure that Clay and Rueben are in the final two?

Lets face it, Kim did poor, and does not have a big fan base...that is obvious from how often she has been in the bottom two.

I am going to go out on a limb, and say, that the producers likely affected the vote count after last weeks show to make sure that Josh would go this week.

If josh had gotten past this show, he would have made it to the final two and he would have won AI. THink about it.

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I_AM_HE 6123 desperate attention whore postings
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05-07-03, 09:07 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
as far as #1 goes, i think they were running out of time

as far as #3 goes, i'm rather mystified, he looks pretty much the same as he always has. you people act like he gains 20 pounds each week. i'm certainly not a josh fan, but c'mon people

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SaphireLady 2491 desperate attention whore postings
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05-07-03, 09:08 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
I am not going to say out right that I agree. I do however know how much Simon hates Josh. I also think that this week there was a real push by Ryan to vote for who to win, etc... But that was not said when he was with Josh.

I think the minipulation(sp) was there but not an outright faking of votes.


"Now I will believe that there are unicorns..." William Shakespeare; "The Tempest"

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TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
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05-07-03, 09:30 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
Manipulation is a fundamental part of the show.


"Half of Tech's charm is that sometimes I have no idea what she's talking about" -- True

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I_AM_SHOCKED 50 desperate attention whore postings
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05-07-03, 09:35 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
But i just have a feeling that Josh was "Destined to go" after last weeks show if you know what I mean. It wouldn't surprise me if it comes out that the votes were different than what we were told. Not that I am accusing anyone, but it was awfully convenient for Josh's fanbase to suddenly shrink.
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Femme 3621 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-03, 00:54 AM (EST)
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11. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
Here's what I think. Josh did terrible last night, but the judges didn't slam him. In fact, they praised him.

I think this was a ploy... you know, make his fans not think he was in a lot of trouble... keep the voting bloc calm... all that. I think it worked, too.

Femme

"We are men of action; lies do not become us."

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TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
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05-07-03, 09:33 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
Yeah on the chins ... he got pudgier and pudgier

I don't think they had to affect the vote count. The war battle is over and folks forgot that patriotism thing as fast as ... well as fast as they forgot that they hated the Dixie Chicks. He just isn't getting the patriot vote that he was.


"Half of Tech's charm is that sometimes I have no idea what she's talking about" -- True

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dangerkitty 1913 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-03, 00:08 AM (EST)
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9. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
That was weird, how fast Ryan said, "Josh you're out Kim you're safe." I mean, they should call this the Commercials Show, not the Results Show. Ads, ads, ads. And then they have to rush the announcement, after draaaaaaawing it out for-freakin'-ever? Jeesh.

I'm not suspicious at all about the voting. It's happened a number of times already, the person who should have gone one week made it through, only to go the next. Josh fits that pattern. I never voted before, and this week I dialed many times for Kim, just because I knew she needed it. Hey, and it worked! My votes put her over the top and caused Josh to be booted! Woohoo, yea me!

Feel free to lavish thank you cards and flowers upon me.


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712 356 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-03, 03:39 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
Someone (can't remember who) in another (can't remember which) post said something about how everyone who had been voting for Trenyce would probably give all their votes to Kimberley after Trenyce got the axe. This is what happened.


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PrettyInPink 85 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-03, 06:03 AM (EST)
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13. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
Someone (can't remember who) in another (can't remember which) post said something about how everyone who had been voting for Trenyce would probably give all their votes to Kimberley after Trenyce got the axe. This is what happened.

That would be me!

Oh, hallellujah, Josh is gone and K-Lo is safe! Santa does exist!


"His name is Blane??? That's a major appliance, that's not a name!!"

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GeorgiaBelle 2136 desperate attention whore postings
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05-07-03, 09:38 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
>Clay clay clay...if you wanted to
>announce to the world you
>were a bottom, you couldn't
>have done any better even
>if you threw your legs
>over your shoulders and screamed
>F*** Me. What the
>hell was that pansey assed
>wiggle jiggley thing? get
>some dancing lessons dawg.
>Still Your Safe because their
>are enough lonely woman who
>thin that they can turn
>you around and they will
>probably vote you through this
>round....maybe.
>

This is not funny. Sexuality should not be used as a joke. I did consider not posting to this. But as I saw a response growing for Ruben and his weight I knew that I must reply to this.

Not replying is the same as accepting. I can't accept this as funny.



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I_AM_SHOCKED 50 desperate attention whore postings
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05-07-03, 10:51 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
LAST EDITED ON 05-07-03 AT 10:52 PM (EST)

Scarlet, honey, just like Ashley, just like George Michael, just like me, Clay is a big ole member of the friends of Dorothy club. Get used to it.

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drawde236 317 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-03, 00:24 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
I am with Georgia on this one. Your post made me think and I am bit surprised to see a member of the gay community attacking Clay for being gay. I doubt you have read Larry's excellent post on this matter, so I took the liberty of bringing it to you.

http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/cgi-bin/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=152&forum=DCForumID44&omm=0

I am a gay man who is not a Clay fan. I base this decision on his voice--it makes me cringe--and not on what he does in his personal life. I don't care if he runs home and dances naked around the flagpole while doing the YMCA, it doesn't matter to me. I base all my decisions on talent alone.



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PrettyInPink 85 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-03, 06:11 AM (EST)
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14. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
Ditto. I'm new around here, but I'm still gonna give you my opinion. Ditto on that one.


"His name is Blane??? That's a major appliance, that's not a name!!"

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buckeyegirl 5449 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-03, 11:56 AM (EST)
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16. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
Could not agree with you more GeorgiaBelle and Drawde. Well said.


A Proud owner of a Kyngsladye Original
"I believe the most important single thing, beyond discipline and creativity,is daring to dare" Maya Angelou


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lilgypsy 128 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-03, 11:52 AM (EST)
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15. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
I agree on this issue. Vote for his talent or his non-talent. Whether a person is gay or straight should not be a factor in how you view that person as a person. I personally like Clay. It doesn't matter to me if he is gay or straight. That is his business.
I am appalled by this post. While knowing that the poster has the right to their opinion, this post IMO screams of vulgarity and intolerance.



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I_AM_SHOCKED 50 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-03, 01:38 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
LAST EDITED ON 05-08-03 AT 01:45 PM (EST)

lol....you all are taking this way too seriously. You are forgetting that American idol is about image image image as well as voice...don't you hear anything simon says?

Sammy Harris had a great voice, much better than Clays. Where is he now?

But seriously, like it or not, his so called gayness is part of who he is as a performer, and affects how he performs and is percieved. Look at George Michael (ok, if you forget the clam-digger bebop phase of wake me up before you gogo from the 80s - a period where queening out on stage was considered cool because Rod Stewart tight assed pants made everyone look straight be comparison) he is gay, and he puts out a fairly masculine cross gender appealing vibe...lets not talk about the LA incedent.

Just like its part of me and part of anyone else who is gay. Not commenting on it is like excluding a big part of who the performer is.

Intolerant? What are you talking about? I didn't say, oh my he is gay, burn him at the stake.

When non-gay people try to uber-defend gayness to prove how politically correct they are, its a little overboard.

Look, just like Rueban needs to slim down a little and add some variety, and kim needs to strengthen up a little when she starts her song and learn to rip on a few like Ternyce, clay needs to butch up a little if he wants to increase his appeal. Thats the way it is, and thats coming from a gay man...gee i guess because i say it that makes me intolerant...lol...wow i never thought of myself as a gay man who is intolerant of gays...hehe.

The fact of the matter is he queens out too much on stage sometimes. He needs to butch up a bit because he already has that doe eyed feminine thing going way too strong for his own good longterm careerwise, and when he channels cher and celine dion in his facial expressions, it doesn't help.

Yes you socially enlightened people out there who don't thing his personal life should have any affect are right to a degree, if we lived in a microcosm of acceptance and love, but we don't and the cold hard reality of is that a sissy image (thats an inflamatory phrase yes, but its the only one i could come up with at the moment without gong into incredible detail) is not going to carry him as far as one thats a little more ambiguous and masculine.

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Bebo 21083 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-03, 01:50 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
When non-gay people try to uber-defend gayness to prove how politically correct they are, its a little overboard.

You're selling the people on this forum short if you think the only reason that people comment on gayness is to make themselves look good. I hope it's not news to you that many straight people have gay friends and family members that they care about deeply, and would therefore speak up when they feel like someone is criticizing the lifestyle of those people. I don't think many people knew your sexual orientation when they first read your post and saw it in a different light. You don't have to look far on this forum to find that posters are willing to take pot shots at people who are different from them, and that other posters are willing to stand up and say it's wrong whether they are in the maligned group or not.

Given what I know about a number of the posters who responded to your initial comments, I doubt they were motivated by political correctness. That would be a first for some of them!

Bebo says...919 beats 205 - I am your American Idol and the Baroness of Babedom.

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I_AM_SHOCKED 50 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-03, 02:08 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
I am talking in generalities.

People who say being gay doesn't matter are lying both to themselves.

Again we are talking about image, not waht a select few enlightened individuals think should only be important...talent. American Idol is about Image. Being overly gay is not a good image for the general public. If you can't accept the truth of that, try affecting an overly gay appearance and attitude and walk down main street and see what type of reaction you get.

Thats the cold hard reality of it, and as utopian as we would like to think we are we are not.

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Bebo 21083 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-03, 02:20 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
You were speaking in generalities, I was addressing the specific posters who responded to you who did not fit that broad stroke you painted.

Of course it's not Utopia, but there is a growing number out there who don't give a rat's ass about someone's sexual preference when it comes to choosing whose CD they plan to buy. It may not be a majority of the general public, but the number is significant, and IMO increasing.

And as someone from Clay's hometown, I can tell you that the folks around here do not care one bit. This city is going absolutely wild for him because they like his voice and they like how he presents himself. All of the press about him has been positive.

Bebo says...919 beats 205 - I am your American Idol and the Baroness of Babedom.

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I_AM_SHOCKED 50 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-03, 07:02 PM (EST)
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29. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
thats why they are called generalities.

Hometown boys are always favored in their hometown in a competition...it has nothing to do with your town being 100% accepting of alternative lifestyles.

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GeorgiaBelle 2136 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-03, 02:39 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."

Again we are talking about image, not what a select few enlightened individuals think should only be important...talent. American Idol is about Image. Being overly gay is not a good image for the general public. If you can't accept the truth of that, try affecting an overly gay appearance and attitude and walk down main street and see what type of reaction you get.

Shocked, I do not give rip what ones sexuality is as long as it does not affect me personally. I am not saying this to be PC or enlightened. I am simply stating the truth.

However I will defend your right to bash the crap out of the way someone dresses, talks, sings, flutters their eyes or even eats too much. This is about image.

Where my concern came in is that it DID appear to me that you were bashing Clay for his alleged sexuality. AND from my line of view sexuality is like skin color something one does not choose.

Do I have gay and straight friends? Sure. Do we talk in private about things that should not be said in public, sure. Are we always PC, NO. Do we make offensive cracks at each other, yes. Are we careful about what we say in public, yes. This is were my personal taste comes into play for me.

My personal sexuality has nothing to do with this. Nor should it. I will blast someone for many reasons.

I will agree with you about the overly gay statement. I have known people that were beaten for being perceived as overly gay. There was even a young person killed for this reason. Did this make it right? NO. Should people be allowed to dress and act how they like, IMHO yes. Although that is not the world we live in and we both know that.

So in short I will simply say that while I think that Clay looked silly dancing and silly in that outfit, I would have said that no matter his alleged sexuality and defend your right not to like him or his style.

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I_AM_SHOCKED 50 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-03, 07:45 PM (EST)
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34. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
As just another peanut in the bushel, you and i can enjoy the luxury of not caring what people think about our sexuality what ever it is, and not care about other peoples sexuality. But

Celebrity means no privacy.


You may not give a rats ass, but the general public does. Thats why they market IMAGE so much more heavily than talent.

There are rare exceptions.

Barbra Striesand. Now clays voice is good but he isn't Barbra.

ANyone who knows Babs' early history will understand what I am referring to in regards to image and talent.

He can slide on an album or two with the American Idol thing, but beyond that he needs to develop an appealing image. THe publics memory for good things is short.

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PrettyInPink 85 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-03, 02:42 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
LAST EDITED ON 05-08-03 AT 02:42 PM (EST)

You are forgetting that American idol is about image image image as well as voice...don't you hear anything simon says? Sammy Harris had a great voice, much better than Clays. Where is he now?
But seriously, like it or not, his so called gayness is part of who he is as a performer, and affects how he performs and is percieved.

If Clay is gay, you ARE equating this as a bad thing with every post you put up. Clearly, his fans don't care - I adore him, and I could give a fart who he sleeps with! You point out about Sam Harris - Sam's career isn't very hot because he probably needs a new manager, not because he's gay. You insinuate that George Michael is more acceptable because he acts more masculine - that's not even remotely the case! His career was alot hotter when he was still doing the wimpy Wham! thing, or don't you remember the 80's at all? He came across as much more effeminate at a time when his career was hot as hell, so your post doesn't hold alot of water. And you're missing the whole point of what Larry had to say earlier - I know you're entitled to your opinion, but get ready to be disagreed with by alot of folks here.

I pointed this out before, and it bears repeating - coming out of the closet didn't hurt George Michael or Elton John's careers one bit. George's career actually took a bit of an upturn when he came out.

And please, the next time you're ready to take a swipe at straight people for being "politically correct" in their defense of gay people, think before you post - then do us all a big favor and don't hit the send button. We don't like being pigeon-holed for defending people who've been wonderful friends, co-workers or family members to alot of us.


"His name is Blane??? That's a major appliance, that's not a name!!"

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I_AM_SHOCKED 50 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-03, 07:47 PM (EST)
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35. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
um take your shostility out on someone who is actually anti gay next time please.

Reading is fun.

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I_AM_SHOCKED 50 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-03, 08:10 PM (EST)
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36. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
LAST EDITED ON 05-08-03 AT 08:32 PM (EST)

Ok I am going to break this down cause i reread what you posted and you are reading way more into this than i ever posted, so you have this coming.

>LAST EDITED ON 05-08-03
>AT 02:42 PM (EST)

>
>You are forgetting that American idol
>is about image image image
>as well as voice...don't you
>hear anything simon says? Sammy
>Harris had a great voice,
>much better than Clays. Where
>is he now?
>But seriously, like it or not,
>his so called gayness is
>part of who he is
>as a performer, and affects
>how he performs and is
>percieved.

>
>If Clay is gay, you ARE
>equating this as a bad
>thing with every post you
>put up.

Um no, you are being over analytical and looking for a chance to burn someones shorts. I have news for you...I don't wear underware...

>Clearly, his
>fans don't care - I
>adore him, and I could
>give a fart who he
>sleeps with!

Yes, fans never care about what a celebrity does. Its all those non fans who buy all the supermarket pulp and tell all books and hunt down te gossip to find out every little thing.

>You point
>out about Sam Harris -
>Sam's career isn't very hot
>because he probably needs a
>new manager, not because he's
>gay.

I am refering to his recording career post Star Search and how they never developed a marketable image for him. Not that he is gay and thats way. Stop looking for bullshit in the duck pond.

>You insinuate that
>George Michael is more acceptable
>because he acts more masculine

No, I am saying that the image they used to market him during the Faith era was much more masculine and designed to have much broader appeal. But you seem to want to think that I said, "well Geoprge is a better homosexual because he is not so gay." You are looking for a reason to flame. You also need to know someone before you can determine what they are insinuating usually. And you, honey, don't know me.

>- that's not even remotely
>the case! His career
>was alot hotter when he
>was still doing the wimpy
>Wham! thing, or don't you
>remember the 80's at all?
> He came across as
>much more effeminate at a
>time when his career was
>hot as hell, so your
>post doesn't hold alot of
>water.


Eh....wrongo einstein. Biggest album of his career with most hits off ot it was Faith. Post Clamm Diggers and Andrew Wriggly. Get your facts straight before you try to read me sweetie.

>And you're missing
>the whole point of what
>Larry had to say earlier
>- I know you're entitled
>to your opinion, but get
>ready to be disagreed with
>by alot of folks here.
>

I don't recall making any opinion on whether being gay is right or wrong, but you sure seem to want to think I did.


>I pointed this out before, and
>it bears repeating - coming
>out of the closet didn't
>hurt George Michael or Elton
>John's careers one bit.
>George's career actually took a
>bit of an upturn when
>he came out.
>

George's career was in the toilet, ok bad pun, before the toilet incedent. Only his die hard fans even knew he was still recording. Taking an upturn was inevitable after all the publicity. But his choice of music will keep him out of the limilight untill he either develops another marketable image, or comes to terms with the image that was created for and by him post Wham and starts to work with it again. Please don't try to tell me about George, I have every one of his albums, singles, remixes and know quite a bit more about his career than you seem to think you do as evidenced by your statements. Repeating something that is factually wrong twice doesn't make it less factually wrong. Get your facts straight about Geroge before you come at me again...where is the hand icon?

>And please, the next time you're
>ready to take a swipe
>at straight people for being
>"politically correct" in their defense
>of gay people

I didn't take a swipe, but you sure want to believe i did. Why do some (lets call them aggressive) people want to read way more into a message than is actually there?

>think before
>you post - then do
>us all a big favor
>and don't hit the send
>button.

Good advice, follow it yourself next time. along with this one: Read what is written not what you want to hear.

>We don't like
>being pigeon-holed for defending people
>who've been wonderful friends, co-workers
>or family members to alot
>of us.

Bully for you. I can't argue with that one, well all except the we part...did multiple people write your response?

P.S.

Oh My God, i just realized reading another post and founf out you are a dedicated CLAY FAN. No wonder you got so riled by what you think I said....lol...sorry...

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katem 3315 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-03, 03:34 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."

>Sammy Harris had a great voice,
>much better than Clays.
>Where is he now?

If you are talking about Sam Harris, the guy that won Star Search years ago, he is now a well known (and out) Broadway actor.

As for his voice being better than Clay's, no sir, you are wrong. I saw Sam perform on Broadway, in his Tony nominated role in "The Life", and he was very good, but his voice does NOT match Clay's. He IS much cuter though

As for your post, sorry Shocked, but as a gay man myself, I think you are out of line (even though you did NOT single Clay out, you bashed them all) and have missed the point Belle, Ms. Bebo and all the other peeps have been making. No disrespect, but I think you need to think about this a little bit more.


(c) 2002, 03 IceCat Originals, Inc. All rights reserved.

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I_AM_SHOCKED 50 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-03, 08:35 PM (EST)
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39. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
You need to rewattch some of his earlier performances on star search. His voice was better than clays and his enunciation was crisper and cleaner without sounding so forced.

15 years later and nightly broadway shows will wear your voice out.

Even Whitneys voice now is no where like it was when she first started...

Please people, be a little more objective in your clay adoration. Yes he is good in the vocals department, but he is not as sensational as you think, its the competition that sucks.

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I_AM_SHOCKED 50 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-03, 07:19 PM (EST)
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32. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
I didn't attack him for being gay.

I was accused of attacking him for being gay. Big difference, significant distinction.

again. Image not personal preference.


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tig_ger 2098 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-03, 02:44 PM (EST)
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23. "Agree"
Agree with Bebo, Georgia Belle and company. You all said it better than I could have.

On a side note, I do not agree that Clay needs to butch it up in order to win this competition.

It is my opinion that gay men are very attractive to many women, and if straight men would just figure this out, they wouldn't be home alone on any night of the week. I mean, you don't have to look far in Hollywood to see that many of the men women lust over have been accused of being gay. I've heard rumors about Leonardo DiCaprio, Orlando Bloom, Tom Cruise, etc. etc. to name a few. I am *NOT* saying that any of these individuals are gay, but whether they are gay or not, they still have a huge fan following. Why? Because of their image. Many women like men that are in touch with their feelings. Whether they are gay or not, they don't have the *bad boy* image that disturbs younger girls and other phobic people. Certain types of women don't care to see such a blatent display of sexuality, and gay men have, rightly or wrongly, become good at covering their feelings in public, and getting a room, so to speak. (I am speaking generally about gay and straight men, and know that there are plenty of exceptions) That makes these younger girls and phobic women feel comfortable around them. Oh, and phobic women. Don't get too upset about that term. I'm one of them. I had to look hard to find an endearing sweet straight guy who wasn't on the prowl on every occasion.

If you all only knew (*sigh*)

Bottom Line. It is my opinion that Clay should stay exactly the way he is and I don't care if he is gay, straight, Alien, or prefers chiuauas.



A Kyngsladye Original

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TODDLJ 421 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-03, 03:57 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
Thanks to everyone who mentioned my earlier article when replying to this post.

I don't have much to add at the moment, I feel my earlier post pretty much said it all.

The gist of my negative response to this post is... why do we (gay people) have to bash each other so much... why can't we accept that some men are more effeminate than others (which I think is a good thing) and leave it at that?

Most women either don't think he's gay or don't care.

Most straight men don't care either.

The only people who are making this an issue are self-hating gay men, and over-compensating still-in-the-closet 'straight' men.

That's my 2 cents.

-Larry

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lilgypsy 128 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-03, 04:20 PM (EST)
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26. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
Well said Larry......


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tig_ger 2098 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-03, 04:28 PM (EST)
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27. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
The only people who are making this an issue are self-hating gay men, and over-compensating still-in-the-closet 'straight' men.

Larry, you said in one sentence what I was trying to say in my long rambling post. I now know why I am not a writer. Way to be concise and get your point across. (*high fives*)


A Kyngsladye Original

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I_AM_SHOCKED 50 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-03, 07:00 PM (EST)
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28. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
lol. Ok for the last time. Image. Not reality. In reality Clay can screw a chipmunk for all I care. In the world of image, he is percieved as too efeminate. Thats the way it is.

We are talking about how to market him. That silly assed jiggly thing did nothig but remind a large portion of the populace of his femininity.

And to the poster who said GM was hotter during the Wham phase than any other...lol..i have one word for you.

FAITH

post wham, post fem, total masculine hottie image, off the charts much bigger sales than any other album in his career.


And as to his coming out having helped his career? Um how many #1 songs and albums has he had since? Yes in europe where sexuality is much more free he has had em, but in the US where everyday somebody new pops on the pulpite telling people whats acceptable for their private parts, he hasn't had any...this could also be influenced by the fact that he dreams of being a lounge act instead of a pop singer though....granted its not a fair comparison because his coming out was not neccessarily valuntary.

anyway, i don't know why i am argueing over clay, i think he is the best one there talent wise, but image wise they all suck so far.

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tig_ger 2098 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-03, 07:16 PM (EST)
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31. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
LAST EDITED ON 05-08-03 AT 07:18 PM (EST)

Not to beat a dead horse, but I'm having a lot of fun with this conversation--hope you are too.

I first heard rumors about George Michael being gay while he was still with Wham! There was all sorts of rumors about him and Andrew Ridgely being "bad boys" and getting it on together etc. etc. It didn't hurt his image at all. In fact, it probably helped it. (Did I just remember Andrew Ridgely's name? I am so embarrassed!)

I think George Michael's image took a dive directly after the bathroom rumors in LA. The demographic that efeminate men appeal to will forgive men with that image, but will not forgive lewd acts in public.

As long as Clay's students don't come forward with a Michael Jackson-esque court case and he stays out of public restrooms, it is my opinion that his efeminate image should be fine.

anyway, i don't know why i am argueing over clay, i think he is the best one there talent wise, but image wise they all suck so far.

Good point. I think everyone has something that we can bash. It's too fun to resist.

Edited to fix one of many spelling errors. I'm sure there's more. I can't spell.

A Kyngsladye Original

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I_AM_SHOCKED 50 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-03, 07:34 PM (EST)
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33. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
LAST EDITED ON 05-08-03 AT 08:48 PM (EST)

There is a significant difference between rumors and coming out and saying yes, I wanted to blow that cop in the john.

There were always rumors of GM being gay, but they were kept very hush except in certain circles. Being gay, we knew about it becuase lets face it, gay men make it their business to find out exactly who might be and how hung they are in the entertainment industry....don't deny it you know its true...grin.


His gayness became a big issue which is why FAITH was such an overtley heterosexualised look for George.

I highly doubt Faith and I want your sex and Father Figure and all the other hits off of what is still one of the greatest pop albums of all time would have had the impact they had if the visuals that accompanied them were of George Nellying out.

Look, as a gay man I am the first to admit we all queen out from time to time, some more than others, but again i am not talking about whats the right way to be gay. I am talking about image here and what sells more readily to the Public.

Image is 80 - 99 % of how the money is made. Talent has little to do with it in the real world of pop.

Take Madonna. Her singing voice is ok, but its her image that makes her rock. I know a lot of people hate her, but she is queen of the dance club and you know it. Why? image. And she has sold a Ton of records.

On the Other hand

Take Kristine W
Incredible Voice, probably one of the best of the century for dance music. The Lady can turn a song into something from another dimension, But, They just never got her the right marketable image. So yes she has some of the most memorable Dance hits for people who keep track of her but the general public barely remembers her as anything other than a one or two hit wonder from the 90s.

And please nobody say Kristine hasen't made it huge cause her song choices have been sub par cause thats a joke. Some real shlock ends up as number one....macarena anyone?

Ok back to IMAGE. Clay needs to butch up a bit and get some dance lessons that make him more marketable and appealing outside of the highly enlightened, politically correct, socially loving and understanding, amazingly beautiful and intelligent people who support him...hows that everyone happier now?

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tig_ger 2098 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-03, 08:21 PM (EST)
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37. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
I think we agree that image matters in the entertainment industry. I think we disagree about how much and what sinks a performer, because I think that effeminate men can sell records.

I never saw George Michael as butch. He was always sort of fem to me, even in the Wham! days and beyond. It never bothered me. It wouldn’t have bothered me if he came out of the closet and introduced us to his boyfriend. I can’t speak to everyone, but Savage Garden and Erasure didn’t seem to have any problems selling records and everyone knows that members of each group are gay. IMHO, George Michael’s problem was that he got busted in the bathroom in LA. He just comes off looking lewd. Yes, his career was already headed south, but there was no chance of a come back after that. (Pun fully intended)

My point is that I think effeminate and/or gay men can have a successful music career, as long as they are classy and tasteful about it. IMHO, Clay is classy and tasteful, whatever his sexual orientation. Thus, IMHO, he does not need to butch it up. You disagree. Cool.


A Kyngsladye Original

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I_AM_SHOCKED 50 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-03, 08:26 PM (EST)
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38. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
LAST EDITED ON 05-08-03 AT 08:54 PM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 05-08-03 AT 08:52 PM (EST)

and I didn't say they couldn't. Its america and even rush limbag is famous.

There are images that are more marketable and more successful than other.

No way will Clay ever be a butch Marky Mark type...but he can certainly polish it up a bit so that when he does take a womans hand in the audience and serenades her it doesn't induce giggles.

You saw George Michael as fem even post wham? What the hell ar you an alaskan lumberjack? The guy has been doing butch drag for ever. I am afraid to ask what you consider butch...grin...Milosavich maybe?


Its just an observation people, don't freak out about it.


Jesus. Iam going to go back to bashing josh...nobody got mad about that...well except josh fans.

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Bebo 21083 desperate attention whore postings
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40. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
but he can certainly polish it up a bit so that when he does take a womans hand in the audience and serenades her it doesn't induce giggles.

His image is evolving, since he's only been in the spotlight for 2 1/2 months. But as I've been watching the publicity stint here in Raleigh, I can fill you in on some of the fan reactions, and you can judge for yourself what sort of image adjustments he needs to make.

- One of the young female newscasters on the morning show keeps singing "That's the Clay (uh huh, uh huh), I like him (uh huh, uh huh)" to the tune of KC and the Sunshine Band's "That's the Way I Like It". When he visited the TV station this morning, all of the staff brought in their kids, nieces, and nephews.
- One of my coworkers, who's in her mid-50s, had my phone ringing off the hook this morning because she had to fill me in on how things went at the baseball game last night where Clay sang. Her husband and sons tease her horribly because they know how she's obsessed.
- Clay called the winner of a radio station contest this morning, and as soon as she realized who he was, she was screaming. At work.
- He sang to some middle schoolers at the State Capitol yesterday, and when he would touch their hands while he sang, some of them burst into tears. Yes, there were some giggles, but they were the giggles of preteens who are nervous and "Ohmygod, I canNOT believe what's happening to me!!!!!!"

Given the fanatical appeal to the tweens and the female audience, I don't think he needs to butch it up to bolster his career chances. He's got the type of rabid fans who would go out and buy anything that has his name on it, and that's what you need to succeed.

Bebo says...919 beats 205 - I am your American Idol and the Baroness of Babedom.

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I_AM_SHOCKED 50 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-03, 07:07 PM (EST)
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30. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
LAST EDITED ON 05-08-03 AT 07:09 PM (EST)

um, ok....unfortunately the world is not as simple and black and white homophobic as you think.

The myth that all men uncomfortable with homosexuality are either suffering from penis envy, self hate or are closeted homosexuals is not true.

I wish it was that simple but it is not.

Its a much more complex issue than that.

again, don't get your panties in a twist about his effemininity, its about the marketability of an efeminate image, not his right to be efeminate.

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TODDLJ 421 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-03, 04:01 PM (EST)
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41. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
Effeminate people are unmarketable? Bullshit.

Society's perceptions are set in stone and will never change? Bullshit.

One person does not have the ability to effect and change society's perceptions? Bullshit.

It's when we give up and just say: 'it's a complex issue, you can't change it, give in to it' that we have lost our individualty and our integrity.

You, my friend, are simply in denial about your own prejudices. Worse yet, you are feeding the problem with your own rhetoric.

Wake up and realize that as long as we are resigned to society's general predjudice against men who have feminine traits and women who have masculine traits, as long as we simply accept it and modify our behavior to fit into some sort of bland, acceptable mold, then the situation will never change.

Society can and will accept an effeminate man who has inarguable talent, undisputed appeal, and the out-and-out balls to be themselves to the fullest.

Don't try and make Clay into some middle of the road, bland, whitewashed, 'normal' American. He can and will succeed exactly as he is.

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GeorgiaBelle 2136 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-03, 04:35 PM (EST)
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42. "YES!!!! Thank you Larry"
>Society's perceptions are set in stone
>and will never change? Bullshit.

How many times over just the last two hundred years has this changed? Many, many more than most realize.

>One person does not have the
>ability to effect and change
>society's perceptions? Bullshit.

It takes one little voice screaming NO. Sometimes others are just waiting for someone else to have the nerve to speak up and out. IMHO, there is always a one before there are millions. That one is seldom alone where good taste is concerned.

>It's when we give up and
>just say: 'it's a complex
>issue, you can't change it,
>give in to it' that
>we have lost our individualty
>and our integrity.
>
>You, my friend, are simply in
>denial about your own prejudices.
> Worse yet, you are
>feeding the problem with your
>own rhetoric.

Larry my friend this is why I came down on Shocked to start with. While I still maintain that he has a right to NOT like Clay I was very concerned about his wording.

If people who think that wording such as his is acceptable and tolerant it will cause some to think their prejudices are acceptable and they most certainly are NOT.

Once again I thank you for your viewpoint.


Georgia "The Vigilante" Belle

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Bebo 21083 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-03, 04:58 PM (EST)
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43. "RE: YES!!!! Thank you Larry"
Georgia "The Vigilante" Belle

But I thought I was The Vigilante...Then again, you do it with so much more style than I do.


Bebo says...919 beats 205 - I am your American Idol and the Baroness of Babedom.

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GeorgiaBelle 2136 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-03, 05:05 PM (EST)
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44. "RE: YES!!!! Thank you Larry"
Georgia "The Vigilante" Belle

But I thought I was The Vigilante...Then again, you do it with so much more style than I do.

Why Bebo I do thank you, but there is Always room for one more


Georgia "The Vigilante" Belle

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I_AM_SHOCKED 50 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-03, 08:55 PM (EST)
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46. "RE: YES!!!! Thank you Larry for stating the obvious because god knows...."
Look, all I am saying is clay acts like a big ole nelly queen on stage sometimes and that he would do better in terms of marketablity to cop a more butch attitude with some of the things he does on stage.

His facial expressions when he sings and talks border on drag impersonation.

Yet somehow, this has been transmuted by you guys as me saying, oh effeminate men are bad. and not marketable, and unappealing.

Whatever.

Pop music is about image not about being yourself. Thtats what kareoke is for.

Give it a rest.

Clay at times acts like a big nelly queen on stage.

You like it? great.
You don't like it? great.
You think its marketable? Great
You don't think its marketable? Great. I really don't care.

But everytime i see him do the celine or cher face i crack up and think its almost as bad as Hercules Hercules Hercules.

I can call it as I see it and frankly tough titty if you are upset because your secret lunchbreak fantasy of having him seranade you in the nude is shattered by the mere mention of the fact that he has passed princess in waiting and graduated to full blown queen.

When did it become illegal to state the obvious?

Please for the love of god people, stop translating "Clay is a big ole nelly queen" into "Queens are bad and should be burned at the stake" so you can get all hot and bothered and jump up and down and scream shame you evil person full of homophobia and prejiduce.

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I_AM_SHOCKED 50 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"

05-09-03, 08:41 PM (EST)
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45. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
>Effeminate people are unmarketable? Bullshit.

Dude take a ##### chill pill. I didn't say effeminate people are unmarketable.

I just said he needs to butch up a bit to encrease his appeal.

Christ. Thats it I am voting for Rueban for two hours straight from now on...and I am going to train my boa constrictor to use the cellphone and text message Rueben for two hours straight all night. Oh my god I used the word straight...that must make me a homophobe.

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I_AM_SHOCKED 50 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"

05-09-03, 09:04 PM (EST)
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47. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
LAST EDITED ON 05-09-03 AT 09:06 PM (EST)

>Effeminate people are unmarketable? Bullshit.
>
>
>Society's perceptions are set in stone
>and will never change?
>Bullshit.
>
>One person does not have the
>ability to effect and change
>society's perceptions? Bullshit.
>
>It's when we give up and
>just say: 'it's a complex
>issue, you can't change it,
>give in to it' that
>we have lost our individualty
>and our integrity.
>

You know if you are going to take some words that i wrote, put them out of context, add to them to give them a totally different meaning and then get on the pulpit and preach to me about it, then you need to reassess your own integrity.

I said Not all homophobes are angry becuase they have little dicks or are in the closet. Its a much more complex issue than that. The complex issue being what is the cause of homophobia.

I also never said effeminate men are not marketable. I said as a gay man, image is very important and certain images work better than others in terms of marketing in the current pop music industry.

Yet somehow you transposed this into something completely twisted (see above) so you could get all preachey on me.(see below)

>You, my friend, are simply in
>denial about your own prejudices.
> Worse yet, you are
>feeding the problem with your
>own rhetoric.
>
>Wake up and realize that as
>long as we are resigned
>to society's general predjudice against
>men who have feminine traits
>and women who have masculine
>traits, as long as we
>simply accept it and modify
>our behavior to fit into
>some sort of bland, acceptable
>mold, then the situation will
>never change.
>
>Society can and will accept an
>effeminate man who has inarguable
>talent, undisputed appeal, and the
>out-and-out balls to be themselves
>to the fullest.
>
>Don't try and make Clay into
>some middle of the road,
>bland, whitewashed, 'normal' American.
>He can and will succeed
>exactly as he is.

Ok. Base on what I have observed you do with my responses so far, let me just say:

Blow me.

Twist that around.

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TODDLJ 421 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star"

05-09-03, 09:27 PM (EST)
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48. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
Dude, I'm just stating my point of view. My opinion is as valid as yours. If you feel attacked I'm sorry, but I was feeling attacked as well, which is why my comments were so strongly worded (as were yours.)

I actually HONESTLY think that if Clay tried to 'Butch it up' it would make him more boring, tentative and stiff. He would become hesitant, unsure of himself, less confident. Then he would have even less ability to become a star. I think true stars find what is unique from within and offer it to the public.

You have every right to disagree with this hypothesis.

You also have every right to dislike Clay and his behavior. But, I happen to think that your dislike of his effeminate behavior is a form of prejudice. I have a right to think that.


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I_AM_SHOCKED 50 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-03, 09:39 PM (EST)
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50. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
LAST EDITED ON 05-09-03 AT 09:39 PM (EST)

Dude,

Don't friggin dude me dude.

I'll Dude you, actually i wont dude you, your not my type.

All i am saying is if you want to attack me attack me on what I said.

Don't twist my words around and add things I never said but you want to infer and pepper them with your own comments and then create something henious to preack about. That doesn't show a lot of integrity.


Anyway man, i am just poking fun at clay being kinda queeney. Its no big deal and it is funny if your not too uptight about it. But it doesn't change anything about his worth as a person or the validity or right to be the way he wants to be, so stop attacking me on that cause I am not saying its wrong for him to scream nelly at the top of his lungs.

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I_AM_SHOCKED 50 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-03, 09:52 PM (EST)
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52. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
>You also have every right to dislike Clay and his behavior. >But, I happen to think that your dislike of his effeminate >behavior is a form of prejudice. I have a right to think that.

Again silly rabbit, when did I say that I dislike his effeminate behavior?

It seems like you re the one with the prejudgemental problem, because you are bound and determined to hear me say that.

Sounds to me like you are the one who has a problem with your femininity.

I am perfectly compfortable with my feminine side. And if you don't belive me why dont you come over to my house so I can take off these six inch heels and smack you upside the head a few times with em until you can read the lines instead the invisible ink you think is between the lines.

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I_AM_SHOCKED 50 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-03, 09:34 PM (EST)
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49. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
LAST EDITED ON 05-09-03 AT 10:20 PM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 05-09-03 AT 09:44 PM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 05-09-03 AT 09:34 PM (EST)

Look let me give an example of another color to all these social thought police:

Here are your choices:
A) Martina Navratolova
B) Steffi Graf
C) Ana Kornikova


Take this test:

1) Which one is the most recognizable tennis player on sight to the highly sought after teen and tween demographic?
A) Martina Navratolova
B) Steffi Graf
C) Ana Kornikova

2) Which one is the Best Tennis Player to Date?
A) Martina Navratolova
B) Steffi Graf
C) Ana Kornikova

3) Which One is the Most Marketable Tennis player to the Highly sought after teen and tween disposable income market?
A) Martina Navratolova
B) Steffi Graf
C) Ana Kornikova

4) Which one would you like to have a conversation with?
A) Martina Navratolova
B) Steffi Graf
C) Ana Kornikova

5) Which one would you like to be related to?
A) Martina Navratolova
B) Steffi Graf
C) Ana Kornikova

6) (Straight Males Only) Which one would you like to screw?
A) Martina Navratolova
B) Steffi Graf
C) Ana Kornikova

7) Which one would most likely get the the spending demographic of the pop music industry (teens and young adults) to open their wallets?
A) Martina Navratolova
B) Steffi Graf
C) Ana Kornikova

8) which one is the most photographed tennis player currently?
A) Martina Navratolova
B) Steffi Graf
C) Ana Kornikova

9) Which one has big tattas?
A) Martina Navratolova
B) Steffi Graf
C) Ana Kornikova

10) Which one actually deserves based on merit and talent and not looks and image to be the most popular?
A) Martina Navratolova
B) Steffi Graf
C) Ana Kornikova

11) Which one irregardless of merit or talent, is the most popular?
A) Martina Navratolova
B) Steffi Graf
C) Ana Kornikova

12) which one makes the most money from image?
A) Martina Navratolova
B) Steffi Graf
C) Ana Kornikova

13) which one will have a mustache pretty soon?
A) Martina Navratolova
B) Steffi Graf
C) Ana Kornikova

Answers)

1) Which one is the most recognizable tennis player on sight to the highly sought after teen and tween demographic?
C) Ana Kornikova

2) Which one is the Best Tennis Player to Date?
A) Martina Navratolova
or
B) Steffi Graf

3) Which One is the Most Marketable Tennis player to the Highly sought after teen and tween disposable income market?
C) Ana Kornikova

4) Which one would you like to have a conversation with?
A) Martina Navratolova
or
B) Steffi Graf

5) Which one would you like to be related to?
A) Martina Navratolova
or
B) Steffi Graf

6) (Straight Males Only) Which one would you like to screw?
C) Ana Kornikova
if you are a typical straight male from the demographic we are referring to and you answer A or B you know are lying

7) Which one would most likely get the the spending demographic of the pop music industry (teens and young adults) to open their wallets?
C) Ana Kornikova

8) which one is the most photographed tennis player currently?
C) Ana Kornikova

9) Which one has big tattas?
C) Ana Kornikova

10) Which one actually deserves based on merit and talent and not looks and image to be the most popular?
A) Martina Navratolova
or
B) Steffi Graf
if you are everyone posting on this thread but I_am_Shocked (or so you all seem to think) and C if you are a teenage or tween age male with too much vasaline at home.

11) Which one irregardless of merit or talent, is the most popular?
C) Ana Kornikova

12) which one makes the most money from image?
C) Ana Kornikova

13) which one will have a mustache pretty soon?
C) Ana Kornikova
Please she is russian, have you seen what a lot of russion woman look like after the babies start to drop?


Does anybody understand what I am trying to say here? And If you are going to twist this one around which I am sure you will, please learn to understand that a lot of what I am posting is flavored to be humorous, not damning...christ people, lighten up...Image is a big phoney game. It means nothing. But, and this is a very bug Butt, its a huge part of the fame and money game.

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TODDLJ 421 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star"

05-09-03, 09:49 PM (EST)
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51. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
Shocked, you gotta know I am a COMEDY guy... I am passionate about this subject, clearly, but I don't hate you or your opinion. I actually laughed at your first post.

I just wish I could get you to see my opinion too. Not to agree... just admit I have a point.

You are correct that fitting in to 'normal' roles is more accepted, and therefore has the potential to make you much more popular. I agree 100% with you on that. You definitely have a point. No argument with that point!

Here's the problem I have... some people simply can't do that. Martina is actually a prime example of MY point.

If Martina's agent told her to 'femme it up' so that she could get more commercial endorsements, I HONESTLY don't think she could pull it off! You and I know she's a big butch man in a tennis skirt. There is simply nothing she can do about it, that's just the way she is. If she tried to play tennis like a little girl, tried to be less agressive, tried to grunt in a higher pitch, tried to look more feminine, tried to grow her hair long, got a boob job... she'd suck at tennis, still not be conventionally pretty, and be even less popular that she is. How would telling her to 'femme it up' benefit her, or anyone?

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I_AM_SHOCKED 50 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-03, 10:01 PM (EST)
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53. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
LAST EDITED ON 05-09-03 AT 10:11 PM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 05-09-03 AT 10:02 PM (EST)

What point? You seem to have two points.

One: The Point that you just stated, that I dont and never have had a problem with except the part where you "honestly think" they cant do this or that (Rock Hudson anyone? You can't tell me there weren't footprints on the cieling in his bedroom.)...how do you know this about what another person can or can't honestly do?


Two: The Point you have been driving home where you take what I said and try to twist it into some nefarious statement and brand me as a homophobe and prejudiced and turn me into DickVader, because I said that for marketablity he should butch up some of his stuff.

Its the exact same thing the image people will tell him. Why? Because its about getting the most fame and bucks while yo are on top cause it never lasts. Once you sink back down you can be yourself all you want, but when the irons hot you play the game. There are always exceptions, but thats the general rule. Without practically divine intervention, you need to play the game smart to win.

Somebody hold my hair.

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I_AM_SHOCKED 50 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"

05-09-03, 10:08 PM (EST)
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54. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
On the Martina Thing, martina did not get a lot of commercial endorsements until she transcended the image battle and the image became Martina.

The majority of entertainers/celebrity/sprots figures are not on the level of Martina or Steffi (who is not gay so please no need for uptight lesbians to tonguelash me on this one please thank you.)

And i hate to break it to you guys, but niehter is clay...yet.

American Idol is a stupid tv show. ten major career years down the road, if clay has hit superstardom (highly unlikely if he wins) then talk about not needing to fit the mold...but until then thats a lot of money to pass up on just because "I am what I am."

And please nobody open their pie hole and tell me entertainment is about being true to yourself. Its about fame and fortune. You want to be true to yourself, get a caftan, grow out your hair, sit on a mountaintop and sing to the great expanse.

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TODDLJ 421 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star"

05-09-03, 10:34 PM (EST)
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55. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
I have done my best to understand your points and validate them.

This argument has run its course. I am done with this thread, and will not be replying.

I would like to request that no one else responds any further, as I think this has blown out of all porportion.

It is just a stupid show, after all, no need to have hurt feelings over it.

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I_AM_SHOCKED 50 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"

05-09-03, 10:41 PM (EST)
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56. "RE: Kim sure knows how to Blow it."
well my feelings certainly weren't hurt.

But then I didn't run around accusing people of being self loathing closeted homosexuals, did I?

grin.

My manicure is ruined from all the typing, but my feelings are just fine.

And please what the hell is this I have done my best to understand...blahblahblah?

You sure did work hard between the infering and interpretting and accusing, and I truly appreciate it. Thanks. Grin...no hard feelings.

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