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shakes the clown 3366 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 11-08-01, 08:46 PM (EST) "you're right, its NOT Love Cruise.........its even more ridiculous!" .....and I thought my show was a joke when it came to rules being pulled out of the producers' collective @ss...this episode takes the cake in that department. Someone tell Sleeeve to call the FCC, I'm sure he has them on speed dial   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    Indeed..... MDSkinner 11-08-01 1  RE: you're right, its NOT Love Crui... zzz 11-08-01 2    RE: you're right, its NOT Love Crui... MDSkinner 11-08-01 9  RE: you're right, its NOT Love Crui... TechNoir 11-08-01 3  Can I Get an Amen from the Congrega... IceCat 11-08-01 4  RE: you're right, its NOT Love Crui... Bebo 11-08-01 5    RE: you're right, its NOT Love Crui... Naked 11-08-01 7  RE: you're right, its NOT Love Crui... Lightmage81 11-08-01 6  RE: you're right, its NOT Love Crui... VampKira 11-08-01 8  RE: you're right, its NOT Love Crui... LadyT 11-08-01 10  The double twist! AyaK 11-08-01 11    RE: The double twist! red 11-09-01 12    RE: The double twist! TechNoir 11-09-01 13  RE: you're right, its NOT Love Crui... VampKira 11-09-01 14  Not Exactly... true 11-09-01 15  RE: you're right, its NOT Love Crui... PagongRatEater 11-09-01 16  RE: you're right, its NOT Love Crui... SurvivorGuy 11-09-01 17  Whining Sanchman 11-09-01 18    RE: Whining TODDLJ 11-09-01 20  Vamp Rant VampKira 11-09-01 19    RE: Vamp Rant TaurusII 11-09-01 22        RE: Vamp Rant VampKira 11-09-01 23            RE: Vamp Rant Lurking 11-10-01 24  RE: you're right, its NOT Love Crui... Dalton 11-09-01 21    RE: you're right, its NOT Love Crui... Mumbo Jumbo 11-10-01 25        RE: you're right, its NOT Love Crui... Dalton 11-10-01 26            RE: you're right, its NOT Love Crui... Drive My Car 11-10-01 27  It's a game of luck and strategy Outfrontgirl 11-12-01 28    Perfect MC_Hampster 11-12-01 29    RE: It's a game of luck and strateg... anotherkim 11-12-01 30

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MDSkinner 716 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-08-01, 09:03 PM (EST) 1. "Indeed....." you will get no arguments about that from me.   Top

zzz 703 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-08-01, 09:04 PM (EST) 2. "RE: you're right, its NOT Love Cruise.........its even more ridiculous!" LAST EDITED ON 11-08-01 AT 09:41 PM (EST) shakes-- Where have you been? People have missed you. Everyone-- OK--I was WRONG. I admit it. I was right that if it was not three tribes it would be a swap--but by today just about everyone knew that. I also thought 3for3 was more likely than 1for1 but--so what--I made my pick and it was WRONG WRONG WRONG. MB got me and got me good. As far as the twist--I think it ended up being kind of lame. I don't think an FCC action is warranted, but for me this did not really add that much excitement. Everyone should have known that Silas was in big trouble when Ethan said he liked Frank. There was no real suspense. Delaying the merge may shake things up a little bit, but not that much. Overall, they delivered on the promise to break up alliances and friendships, but so far I have seen nothing to conclude that this "twist" has made things any more interesting. Edited to add: My sincere congratulations to the ten people who officially voted correctly that there would be a 3for3 swap. Your spoiling powers overwhelm me. I bow to your greatness.   Top

MDSkinner 716 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-08-01, 09:18 PM (EST) 9. "RE: you're right, its NOT Love Cruise.........its even more ridiculous!" I don't think anyone picked this thing perfectly. I sure did not even come close.   Top

TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-08-01, 09:04 PM (EST) 3. "RE: you're right, its NOT Love Cruise.........its even more ridiculous!" WOO WOO !!! Good to "see" ya Shakes   Top

IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-08-01, 09:05 PM (EST) 4. "Can I Get an Amen from the Congregation?" AMEN! Brother Clown is right!   Top

Bebo 21083 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-08-01, 09:08 PM (EST) 5. "RE: you're right, its NOT Love Cruise.........its even more ridiculous!" But since it succeeded in bringing our own media whore back here, then it couldn't be all bad.   Top

Naked 887 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 11-08-01, 09:15 PM (EST) 7. "RE: you're right, its NOT Love Cruise.........its even more ridiculous!" I was Wrong, Wrong, Wrong !!! When I thought that I heard the boot on Lindsey's pretty butt, it was actually Tom's hand. I didn't count on Boran throwing IC. Great spoiling guys, and better luck to us next week. Naked   Top

Lightmage81 225 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 11-08-01, 09:13 PM (EST) 6. "RE: you're right, its NOT Love Cruise.........its even more ridiculous!" YOU"RE BACK!!!!!!!!!!   Top

VampKira 4433 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 11-08-01, 09:15 PM (EST) 8. "RE: you're right, its NOT Love Cruise.........its even more ridiculous!" LAST EDITED ON 11-08-01 AT 09:17 PM (EST) ROFL!!!!I've missed you.... fuggin clown! But aren't you violating your own rules there Mr. Dumb Ass Sheriff? By posting this on Spoilers? Huh?? HUH?! *smack* Vamps- Who can't WAIT to read Supe's Summary!!!! Edited because the typo bug is still biting my ass... *sigh* "Just die, Frank..." - Lindsey, S3 *wink*   Top

LadyT 5567 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-08-01, 09:22 PM (EST) 10. "RE: you're right, its NOT Love Cruise.........its even more ridiculous!" Oh my lucky stars, the Clown is back. Dare we ask for how long? Beatrice, get yee to Heaven, heres no place for you maids...and away to Saint Peter's for the Heavens, he shows me where the bachelors sit, and there live we as merry as the day is long -Much Ado About Nothing   Top

AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-08-01, 11:45 PM (EST) 11. "The double twist!" Hey, shakes, I agree. It's great to see you back. And let's make this a spoiler thread by discussing the SECOND twist pulled out of MB's butt today: Jiffy's comment at the end of TC that Boran was "assuming" the merge would take place at the end of E6. The difference is HUGE to Boran! Right now they are definitely the physically weaker tribe, thanks to Teresa and Mama Kim. Let's say Boran loses the TC in E6 as well. If the merge takes place immediately thereafter, Ethan's best strategy is to dump Clarence and expect that T and Frank would vote with Boran to wipe out the GXA, then dump T and Frank, leaving the "Boran 5": Lex, Tom, Ethan, Kelly and Mama Kim. If the merge doesn't take place until after E7, Ethan CANNOT afford to lose Clarence, due to the risk that ETHAN will be booted if Boran is back at TC in E7. He needs to boot Teresa in E6, despite the risk of Clarence's defection or Frank's animosity. What a load of manure! Well, MB is getting his wish -- we can't spoil a show with no rules.   Top

red 140 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 11-09-01, 00:30 AM (EST) 12. "RE: The double twist!" And furthermore, who even wants to spoil a show with no rules?   Top

TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-09-01, 00:38 AM (EST) 13. "RE: The double twist!" Hrm, methinks we've just been teased. Now I don't doubt that Marky Mark would have a 7 course turkey dinner and another 100 gallon drum filled with champagne hidden behind a tree, but Jiffy's remark just seemed like a pathetic tease to me. And, of course, he's always been able to change the rules at will. You just believed he wouldn't Makes spoiling a bit more challenging, eh ?   Top

VampKira 4433 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 11-09-01, 00:49 AM (EST) 14. "RE: you're right, its NOT Love Cruise.........its even more ridiculous!" LAST EDITED ON 11-09-01 AT 01:00 AM (EST) *tiptoes back into this thresd* Just thought I'd throw in a heads up. Superman's Episode Summary is posted... "*****OFFICIAL SUMMARY EPISODE 5***Mark Burnett, Chubby Checker You Ain't*******" "Just die, Frank..." - Lindsey, S3 *wink*   Top

true 9689 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-09-01, 10:28 AM (EST) 15. "Not Exactly..." LOL shakes! Now, if MB decides to bring back Diane for the final jury vote, well, that would put it right up there with Love Cruise, as one of the dumbest rule changes of all time! And if the "twist" inspired you to post, I love it! true ps. really shakes, we miss you around here!   Top

PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-09-01, 10:57 AM (EST) 16. "RE: you're right, its NOT Love Cruise.........its even more ridiculous!" Does this mean that in another stunning twist they will bring back Diane for the final tribal council? Perhaps the next immunity challenge will involve sqeezing oranges with your buttocks to see who can get the most juice.   Top

SurvivorGuy 24 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 11-09-01, 11:23 AM (EST) 17. "RE: you're right, its NOT Love Cruise.........its even more ridiculous!" I agree with TechNoir. I think Jiffy's comment about the merge was just a pathetic whine. He and MB are upset that Boran has the game so solidly in hand. They're just trying to throw them off. Don't forget, in Ep 4 at the TC, Jeff talked about Samburu into the merge at 5 and 5, but really being 4 + 1. I'll be surprised if they move the merge. (But, then again, I was surprised at the swap last night...)   Top

Sanchman 3 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 11-09-01, 12:22 PM (EST) 18. "Whining" While no one can whine as much as Lindsey, I am beginning to wonder when I hear about all these complaints about changing the rules. Buck Up! That's the way it will likely be every two Survivors. The first Survivor introduced "the merge". The third Survivor introduced "the swap". Wonder what the fifth survivor will introduce? Heh. I am happy they had the swap; it makes things more interesting. Still plenty of strategizing for the Survivor contestents to do - and some plain ole surviving too. And still plenty of scoops for us to pick up. So, now it is time for me to step back again and read all of your great spoiler info as I anticipate the next episode. Oh, and I do expect the merge to take place as scheduled, but it was still fun to hear Boran to not take anything for granted. The Sanchman   Top

TODDLJ 421 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 11-09-01, 12:56 PM (EST) 20. "RE: Whining" Sanchman, cut us some slack! We have to get this whining out of our system! The problem is, that most people like watching games if they KNOW THE RULES. Then the watcher can be excited knowing that their favorites are playing well, or exasperated knowing that they are not. If the watcher has no f&*$ing clue what the rules are, then watching the game is boring as bats$%t. For all we know, Lindsay making it obvious that she has previous votes may make her the ultimate winner when... MB changes the rules that previous votes give you immunity!   Top

VampKira 4433 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 11-09-01, 12:53 PM (EST) 19. "Vamp Rant" All I can say is this.... This is a bunch of CRAP! This isn't reality TV any more.. Not that it ever really was, but... You know what MB?? So friggin what if things weren't going the way of your great plan. You didn't like the way the game was being played out, so you changed the rules.. I have no beef with that.. Not exactly.. MY beef is that you need to stop calling it REALITY TV from now on.. Reality would be letting the cards fall where they may. All you are doing is manipulating the outcome so WHAT IS THE POINT??!!!!! HELLO!!!!!!!!! Here's a thought.. Why don't you start using your creativity to make REALITY interesting, instead of screwing with the public and then still shoving the "Reality TV" label down our throats. Cuz it's BULLSHIT! If "reality" would have had the chance to happen.. Silas wouldn't have been voted off.. I don't give a rat's ass that he was, I'm just saying. You SUCK MB! "Just die, Frank..." - Lindsey, S3 *wink*   Top

TaurusII 53 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 11-09-01, 02:36 PM (EST) 22. "RE: Vamp Rant" VampKira, I totally agree -- any attempt to call Survivor "Reality TV" should result in a lawsuit -- for truth in advertising violations! Survivor has always seemed awfully contrived to me (you haven't eaten well or bathed for days, but there's a well-fed camera crew following you around all hours of the night and day?), but now the only rule is "there are no rules". Just makes it all seem kinda pointless to me... )O_II   Top

VampKira 4433 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 11-09-01, 03:08 PM (EST) 23. "RE: Vamp Rant" LAST EDITED ON 11-09-01 AT 03:12 PM (EST) *nods* And you know what?? What burns me up even more, is that this shit gets me fired up enough for me to rant about it on the Spoiler Board! Grrrrrrrr! You echo my thoughts. You simply CANNOT call it a game without RULES!! Hey there, Taurus... you wanna play a game of Monopoly?? Ok! Well here's the rules... BUT.. If you have Boardwalk, Park Place, and any other property that makes me think that I won't end up the big WIENER in this game... I'm gonna change them there rules.. I reserve the right to trade my Baltic Avenue for your Boardwalk.. and you will EAT IT and LIKE IT, buddy! And there ain't a GAWD DAMN thing you can do about it!" Any thoughts I have EVER had of trying out for this "Reality TV" show.. have now been forever squashed. **** that! I feel ILL.............. "Just die, MARK BURNETT!!!!!..." - VampKira *wink*   Top

Lurking 156 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 11-10-01, 06:59 AM (EST) 24. "RE: Vamp Rant" But MB himself has often hesitated to use the "reality TV" term since S1. I can't fault him for inconsistency.   Top

Dalton 1271 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson" 11-09-01, 01:57 PM (EST) 21. "RE: you're right, its NOT Love Cruise.........its even more ridiculous!" Welcome back you pointy-head, red-nose, floppy-shoe Clown!!! I LIKED the 3-person swap!! Which I agrued all week would NOT happen...hehehe...a one-person swap sure; but half the tribe, no way!! Sigh...that is what comes from underestimating the "evilness" that is Burn-it. This has probably been in the rules since S-1; he just didn't need to use it until now. And it's terrific that the tree mail said select 3 of your BEST members to go off on a "quest"; heck they thought they were going to "WIN" something!! LOL. Particularly SAMBURU...the lazy-ass Brandy/Kimmie/Lindy ORDERED Frank & Teresa to go and felt "safe" sending Silas along to keep control of things!! (Holy Cow, I'm still laughing about that!!). Tom/Lex/Kelly showing up at Samburu and immediately realized that they had somehow gotten "stuck with the kindergarden kids" was priceless TV!! Even Kelly can't believe what idiots the "Beady Babies" have been. It's like stumbling upon "three lost toddlers in the middle of Africa" and now they are your Tribe!! ROFL. As for Jiffy Probe's "comment" at TC about the Merge --- it sounded phony and petty to me. I think MB was ticked off when he realized BORAN deliberately "threw the IC" so they could vote Silas the Stoopid out of the game and just wanted to maybe "scare" the Borans into NOT doing that stunt again. It seemed more like "code" for "don't think you can afford to lose anymore IC's on purpose".   Top

Mumbo Jumbo 270 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 11-10-01, 08:33 AM (EST) 25. "RE: you're right, its NOT Love Cruise.........its even more ridiculous!" Glad to have you back,Shakes. Dalton, I liked the three person swap too. I also like the fact that MB is willing to tinker with this game and shake up the players. It's still early enough in the game that the better players can scramble around, form new game plans and a modified strategy. We've already seen changes in the playing with Boran throwing the IC to dump Silas. Silas was just way too secure that he was going to ride the do-nothing alliance into the merger. The first time a forward pass was thrown in a football game, everyone thought it was illegal. But it was just a reinterpretation of the rules and had never been tried. MB must have written a very elastic set of game rules so that he could legally pull this off. Silas looks like a sewer to me, oops suer, so I'm sure the legal ramifications were considered and the bases covered. You don't wait until season six or seven when the ratings have tanked for a show before you bring in "cousin Oliver".   Top

Dalton 1271 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson" 11-10-01, 04:29 PM (EST) 26. "RE: you're right, its NOT Love Cruise.........its even more ridiculous!" In reality Mumbo Jumbo.....the only people Silas could SUE would be his fellow BORAN tribe mates...HaHaHa. MB didn't have anything to do with the fact that both the old Samburu contestants and the new Boran contestants saw through Silas and his obvious self-serving line of BS. Every time Silas opened his mouth he only made himself look worse....Ethan had a hard time not laughing in his face; Frank and Teresa indicated what a selfish arse he was and Silas proceeded to PROVE them right. I DO think MB was very UNHAPPY that Boran so obviously "threw the Immunity Challenge" in order to get rid of Silas. THAT has got to be a "first" for a Survivor show. But it was a one time only thing....Boran will fight to WIN from now on and Clarence will try harder than anyone since he saw what happened to Silas. Dalton   Top

Drive My Car 20045 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-10-01, 05:32 PM (EST) 27. "RE: you're right, its NOT Love Cruise.........its even more ridiculous!" I liked the swap, everything about it. I believe MB refers to the show as Dramality TV, and this was dramatically real. I think the show would have been boring and predictable without shaking up the personalities a bit. I think MB used the switch to repair a mistake he made in the way he split up the tribes in the first place. He cast entertaining people, but mixed them up badly. He screwed up, he fixed it. I don't think Probst has had this much fun since he took away Colby's flag. He was so straight faced, but obviously enjoying it when he informed the unfortunates about their new tribal assignments. Survival is about adapting to your environment, I think it's completely apropriate to change the environment. Those who can't evolve, perish. OH, and I was right about something, The Clown couldn't stay away forever. Nice to see ya Stupid Clown. some wives fake orgasms, I fake housework - ESR   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-12-01, 02:37 AM (EST) 28. "It's a game of luck and strategy" Here's a big difference from Love Cruise: Silas, the one who got screwed, on his way to Boran, said: "what a great game; what a great twist." (loosely quoted) Did the finalists on LC think it was a cool twist to bring back a Loser couple? No, and they were right. It was lame, because it gave people who'd been poor players a real shot at winning. This twist, on the other hand, gave good players the chance to recover after a downturn in their fortunes. Like playing Monopoly and you can't get a set of anything and you finally draw Park Place and magically it all turns around. Great games can be played over and over with different results--generally because an element of luck/chance combines with skill and strategy to determine the outcome. Games incorporate dice throws and drawing cards (and letters in Scrabble) to bring chance into play and to force players to make the best of the hand they've drawn. Some board games make people move backwards or go back to square one. Sorry, you picked the wrong card, landed on the wrong square. Do not Pass Go, do not collect $200. Well, that's similar to what happened in Survivor this week. I didn't watch S1 from the beginning because I wasn't very interested in the idea of Reality TV. The voyeuristic aspect of 24/7 cameras didn't appeal to me. Then my dad got me to watch it during a visit, and got me intrigued in the show as a complex and very difficult game. He's pretty much a strategy game addict--chess, bridge, blackjack, maze and word puzzles, and very good at them. (Bridge Life Master, mathematician.) So, thanks to him, I got hooked on Survivor. I couldn't wait to discuss S2 with him. This was before I found SB and had no one to talk to... I was so bummed when he lost interest in S2 at the merge. He said to me then, "if they're going to repeat this game they need to come up with a change in the format to prevent these alliances forming that lead to the majority team voting off the minority." A lot of people felt this, but my point is--he's a student of games and he saw Survivor as a great one-time game, but not a game that would bear repeating without tweaking the rules. New cast and new setting were not enough. Now Burnett has produced a game where elements are subject to change, where players cannot afford to alienate others with impunity because their alliance has a majority. By adding a surprise swap, he's made room for good players to negotiate new positions for themselves after being on the short end for awhile. I'd compare it to the Amazing Race rather than Love Cruise. In TAR, the teams know that each leg of the race will bring challenges, but they don't know what until they open that envelope. They have to pick who does the Road Block without knowing what it entails. They pick a Detour with very little to go by. They get a twelve hour lead and then end up on the same plane... No one can get complacent at any point. Burnett's quest was similar to a Roadblock. The teams picked who would go on an unknown challenge. They were too complacent about the predictability of Survivor. Silas went alone without an ally. He ventured into the unknown without a friend to watch his back, which isn't ever a great idea, and he lost the game. Silas may be a dim bulb but at least he went out as a great sport. As for spoiling it--we've never been able to spoil this game accurately just from watching and analyzing the game, because each challenge outcome gets somewhat decided by luck and chance. Without a source that gives us info on the outcome, picking who wins immunity is like handicapping a horse race--no certainty. Maybe we were like the players and getting to think we knew the game so well we had it all figured out. I definitely think it's fair for a game to incorporate surprises as part of its format, as long as the rules state that's a possibility. Surviving in real life requires adapting to surprises and sudden twists, and so should this game.   Top

MC_Hampster 105 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 11-12-01, 11:28 AM (EST) 29. "Perfect" I've always hated people who post, just to "second" another one, but this one was too perfect to pass up. It summarized what I was feeling about the twist (especially after reading all these insults to Survivor), but I couldn't put together. Survivor has always been about adaptation. The contestants were getting a little too familiar with the game, which was making it boring. I think this last episode was one I enjoyed more than any other! -MC   Top

anotherkim 14420 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-12-01, 03:41 PM (EST) 30. "RE: It's a game of luck and strategy" Surviving means overcomig whatever curve gets thrown your way--does it make it harder to spoil--well, sure. There is always talk about the "rules". I continue to maintain that all MB had to do was say that there would be two teams and he has stayed within the rules. I have given my students assignments that have vague guidelines just to see how they interpret them...it is amazing how much people read into a simple sentence and how many different views there are. The worst thing you can do in a game such as Survivor is to assume too much. The Mallies did just that. They assumed they knew exactly how to play the game. An integral part of Survivor is working as a team--it is painfully obvious what can happen if you are not a team player as Silas found out. The others, except for Lindsey who seems to be a total nut case, are aware of the need to adapt. They can survive. You cannot go into Survivor and plan to play it just like the prior games...it is a fatal mistake. This series would have been dead on its feet after another year--this continues to make it interesting because you never know what to expect. Frustrating, but interesting. If we weren't dissecting this "twist", we'd be lamenting the sure demise of MamaKim or Frank and the Pagonging.   Top

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