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"Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"
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zazzy 4390 desperate attention whore postings
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03-08-06, 11:53 AM (EST)
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"Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"
Starting a discussion thread on whether AI producers, Simon, et al, steer contestants into the top ten (and beyond, too!). I made a comment in the East Coast thread that Simon had it in for Melissa..and the response I got was that he has his favorites and she is not one of them. I said the following:

--------

I think we are saying the same thing.

I was thinking of starting a thread about how AI steers certain people into to the top ten to create ratings.

For example, I think Kevin C was no great shakes last week but even Simon was kind to him while Randy and Paula heaped it on. They know he won't win but he is a draw for young teens.

Look how Simon changed his tune on Taylor Hicks. He realized he would be a draw for viewers so he 'took back' his initial comments.

I am cynical this year because I do not feel any particular pull for any contestant. Sure, there are contestants I like but no one that makes me have to watch or have to vote.

Anyway, I think Simon has his list of who he wants in the final 10 and he makes sure to 'bury' certain contestants so they do not screw up his list.

I think one he was overly harsh on was Sway. Sway did a better job than several others last week but Simon hammered him out of the show.

Look who they feature and who Ryan plays up to as well. It is all so scripted. You can almost hear them saying backstage:

"Have a pic ready of Chicken Little so we can get people even more interested in Kevin C" or "Let's let Kelly P play up her hick-ness in the post interview---America will buy it even more if we keep her as the hick".

They played up Carrie's small town stuff last year but Carrie had already been touring as an opening act to some band before Idol. She was not as undiscovered or untutored as they made her out to be. They sold her to America and did a good job of it.

This year--who are we being 'sold'? And what Smoking Gun story lurks in the wings to keep us from loving someone else?

--------------

In past years there have been performances I was sure to tape and replay--Kelly, La Toya, Bo, Clay, etc. This year I like Taylor, Mandisa and others but not the way I pulled for some in years past. And the steering that AI does for some contestants is even more blatant than ever.

Thoughts?

I have not taped much of any AI this year or I would have more examples of the steering. I will try to find some more examples from the men tonight and subsequent shows.

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et a... nailbone 03-08-06 1
   RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et a... zazzy 03-08-06 3
 RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et a... geekboy 03-08-06 2
   RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et a... zazzy 03-08-06 4
       RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et a... geekboy 03-08-06 5
           RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et a... nailbone 03-08-06 6
               RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et a... geekboy 03-08-06 7
                   RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et a... CBailey 03-08-06 9
                   RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et a... nailbone 03-08-06 12
               RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et a... Rhyn 03-08-06 8
               RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et a... zazzy 03-08-06 13
           RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et a... zazzy 03-08-06 10
           RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et a... frisky 03-08-06 11
           RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et a... LakerLuv 03-10-06 30
 RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et a... Magnolia_Rocker 03-08-06 14
 For future reference... Bebo 03-08-06 15
   RE: For future reference... zazzy 03-08-06 17
 RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et a... Snidget 03-08-06 16
 RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et a... Ricky 03-08-06 18
   RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et a... zazzy 03-08-06 19
       RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et a... opinionated 03-12-06 36
 RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et a... anotherkim 03-09-06 20
 RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et a... Bravehart 03-09-06 21
   RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et a... archon 03-09-06 22
       RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et a... Bravehart 03-09-06 25
 RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et a... jags 03-09-06 23
 RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et a... zazzy 03-09-06 24
   RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et a... nailbone 03-09-06 26
 RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et a... LIVEURBESTLIFE 03-09-06 27
 RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et a... zazzy 03-10-06 28
 Who of the F12 was spotlighted in ... zazzy 03-10-06 29
   RE: Who of the F12 was spotlighted... LIVEURBESTLIFE 03-10-06 31
 vote for worst info zazzy 03-10-06 32
 RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et a... zazzy 03-11-06 33
   RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et a... prosecutor 03-11-06 34
       RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et a... zazzy 03-11-06 35

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nailbone 27263 desperate attention whore postings
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03-08-06, 12:19 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"
LAST EDITED ON 03-08-06 AT 12:20 PM (EST)

Exactly. I think he was especially harsh to Melissa last night for a performance that was actually pretty good, and not NEARLY harsh enough to Kinnik, who was awful. Or to Lisa who was just kinda eh.

But as I said over there, it's more a case of having his favorites and wanting them to advance, as opposed to just actively disliking Melissa.


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zazzy 4390 desperate attention whore postings
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03-08-06, 12:43 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"
Let's keep a list here of examples we see of their steering/favoritism over the next few shows.

I have already resigned myself to the fact that Simon picks the winner--whether he has behind the scenes help or not--the winner is someone he backs.

I was in denial about this last year--but after watching Carrie sail along I accept it.

So, I highly doubt Taylor can win even though Simon "took back" his initial comments about Taylor. I am still trying to figure out Mandisa. I like her but Simon did not pick her at the begining and there are the embarrassing albeit ratings helping negative comments about her weight.

I think he is focused on a younger girl or one of the guys.

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geekboy 1783 desperate attention whore postings
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03-08-06, 12:42 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"
I think it is naive of anyone to think that Simon, and the other judges would NOT have favorites. They're just as human as you and I.

Simon had picked Carrie last season very early on. But, one thing you need to remember is that America picks the winners. There is no conspiracy theory in the backrooms of AI.

geekboy

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zazzy 4390 desperate attention whore postings
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03-08-06, 01:05 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"
I am not promoting conspiracy. Rather I am looking at the marketing of the show and of the winner. You/America are being sold a winner along the way. Songs are being written for the winner already--one that fits their style.

They pick certain people to spotlight and shape storylines around them. They then gauge America's interest in those they have 'sold' to us via storylines. Remember last year we did not see Bo's audition tape until much later in the game? America pushed Bo along and they could not deny his popularity despite throwing show tunes into one of the weeks lol. When was the last time America bought show tunes by the millions? Yet Bo got somewhat derailed by the Smoking Gun story. I knew he was not going to win after that appeared but rooted for him nonetheless.

Carrie was so much more sold to us--even down to the events at the end when they went to their hometowns. Carrie's was all lined up with being recognized by her state for goodness sake! Bo's was more thrown together.

I'll try to find examples as we go along this season. In reading the East Coast thread and ranking thread...others are noticing the favortism as well--the remark someone made about one of the girls was that the judges 'pansied out' about critizing the singer. This show is very packaged and it is working--note the great ratings it is getting in its fifth year.

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geekboy 1783 desperate attention whore postings
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03-08-06, 01:18 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"
There have been theories like this from day one of season one. I, personally, simply don't buy it.

What you are saying, essentially, is that America is stupid and is being manipulated by the show. I find that insulting. Granted, a lot of America wanted Bo to win, but more people chose to vote for Carrie. Granted, a lot of America wanted Clay to win, but the fact is more people voted for Ruben.

To say that the show CHOSE Carrie and Ruben is silly, and again insulting.

Yes, Simon has his favorites, but from last season one could argue convincingly that Paula wanted Bo to win over Carrie. Its human nature for Simon, paula, Randy and everyone else at AI to have a favorite. But to claim that the general public is so open to manipulation by the show is just false. I don't believe it one bit.

geekboy

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nailbone 27263 desperate attention whore postings
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03-08-06, 01:26 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"
Well, we'll see. But comments like "you just bought your plane ticket home" vs. "I think you're going to sail through" have an effect on the voting.


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geekboy 1783 desperate attention whore postings
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03-08-06, 01:34 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"
I contend that statements like that can have a number of different effects.

First, for a small percentage of people, those comment will result in them acting like lemmings and not voting (if Simon's comments are negative) and/or voting FOR the person (if Simon's comments are positive).

For others it will have the opposite effect, and cause them to do the exact opposite that i mentioned above.

Finally, for the mass majority of people that actually have a brain and make their own decisions, the comments have zero effect outside of pure entertainment value.

geekboy

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CBailey 274 desperate attention whore postings
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03-08-06, 01:42 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"
I don't think Simon has any effect on how things are going with AI. I think he has just been in the business long enough to know when someone hasn't done well enough for him or america.

He is letting the girls know that he didn't like it and he doesn't think america will either. That is better than getting there hopes up in thinking they did good and are safe.


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nailbone 27263 desperate attention whore postings
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03-08-06, 01:53 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"
Finally, for the mass majority of people that actually have a brain and make their own decisions, the comments have zero effect outside of pure entertainment value.

Jay: Why the big secret? People are smart, they can handle it.
Kay: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it


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Rhyn 524 desperate attention whore postings
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03-08-06, 01:40 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"
They do. In my notes for last night's show, when Kellie began singing, I wasn't impressed. I write while they sing, then sum up a comment or two from the judges that I particularly agreed or disagreed with, then give them stars during the final recap (0-4).

For Kellie, I wrote (as she began singing) "Ew, rough start." Then mid-song, "she's almost growling." For the comments, I mentioned the collective "loved her" vibe they all sent out, and said I didn't particularly feel her.

But after the exchange and recap, for some reason I gave her two stars (which is good for me -- I've only ever given one four-star and it wasn't last night. The best, last night, was a three-star). I think this is based on what they all said about her more than my initial impression. Based, too, on her personality, but largely on, "Well, I guess they would know better. Maybe I'm being too hard on her. Maybe I'm missing something. After all, I'm not a vocal expert."

My impression in past seasons (though I haven't seen it lately) is that Simon will "sell" the one he wants through, but other times, he will nitpick them to death after a superb performance. My theory was that by pointing to all this superfluous, ridiculous nonsense, viewers who liked that singer would get defensive and then vote heavily for that contestant. Either to prove Simon wrong, or to "protect" their favorite from a possible elimination. He seemed to do this a lot with some contestants more than others, and most often with male contestants.

This season, though, he's much less like that and much more of a "positive-reinforcer" though that's sort of oxymoronic.

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zazzy 4390 desperate attention whore postings
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03-08-06, 01:55 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"
Thanks, Nailbone. That is what I am talking about. It is easier for me to see it this season because I am not pulling for one particular person.
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zazzy 4390 desperate attention whore postings
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03-08-06, 01:47 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"
Geekboy, nice discussing with you. That's all I wanted to have-- was a discussion.

I am not trying to convince you. I just want to document what I see and then hear other's thoughts. I am also not trying to insult you or America.

I work in marketing/advertising; have made/produced many commercials/ads for all types of mediums including tv and I recognize storyboarding/strategic planning. Once you have made tv advertising you know what goes on 'behind the curtain' and can see how editors and producers shape things. Look at Survivor--Veruca has a great thread about ferreting out the winner from the way the show is edited. She is spot on.

As far as some of the earlier Idol competitions, yes, Clay was beaten by Ruben but recall the whole phone line debacle? Which, by the way, continued into the next season but seems to have improved somewhat.

I am not saying America is stupid. I am saying America is being marketed a winner.

Looking back through some threads on this board I saw a thread about a contestant who got univited to Hollywood week. Go back and check out the thread. Note that the contestants are sent music from the show that they are to be learning.

I would love to know how song selection is really made. I know some of it as governed by songs they have the rights to use. I also know there is someone they have mentioned before who helps them pick their songs (a woman, can't think of her name). I can't help but wonder if some get more help than others with their selections. Of course there are contestants like Carrie and Bo who have an entire repetoire of songs from their past singing gigs. Mandisa and Taylor are in that camp this year. Not sure about Chris or Elliot--I am not up on their stories.

I am not saying this show is manipulated as much as I am saying it is marketed. The marketing they do goes hand in hand with reaction from America. They are sure to have a mix of races and personalities just as they have a mix of singing styles. They could have had 10 country singers or 10 rockers but they were careful to sell some country, some rockers, some crooners, some teeny boopers, etc. By mixing the styles they are getting a bigger draw from America. It is working.

A friend asked me why Survivor didn't do an all female Survivor or an all twenty something version or all older player version--and my response was they did know those would be interesting but not as big of a draw as the mixture of players they present today. Same with Amazing Race.

As for Simon and having favorites, no doubt Simon, Paula and Randy each have favorites. I just get the impression that Simon is more focused on which contestant can sell more after the contest is over...than either Randy or Paula are. Simply said--Simon is more of the marketer than either of them and I think he keeps the producer/marketer aspects in mind when making his comments and thereby favoring some singers over others to keep ratings up and push along his chosen one to the end.

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frisky 11684 desperate attention whore postings
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03-08-06, 01:48 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"
>Granted, a lot of America wanted Bo to win, but more people chose to vote for Carrie. Granted, a lot of America wanted Clay to win, but the fact is more people voted for Ruben.

Not entirely true when you take into account the ridiculous voting process. If a different process had been used in season 2, the results could have been very different.


Rolly made this.
I am still thankful on Bo's behalf that he did NOT win the silly AI title. It wouldn't have done him justice.


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LakerLuv 151 desperate attention whore postings
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03-10-06, 12:46 PM (EST)
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30. "RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"
>There have been theories like this
>from day one of season
>one. I, personally, simply
>don't buy it.
>
>What you are saying, essentially, is
>that America is stupid and
>is being manipulated by the
>show. I find that
>insulting. Granted, a lot
>of America wanted Bo to
>win, but more people chose
>to vote for Carrie.
>Granted, a lot of America
>wanted Clay to win, but
>the fact is more people
>voted for Ruben.
>
>To say that the show CHOSE
>Carrie and Ruben is silly,
>and again insulting.
>
>Yes, Simon has his favorites, but
>from last season one could
>argue convincingly that Paula wanted
>Bo to win over Carrie.
> Its human nature for
>Simon, paula, Randy and everyone
>else at AI to have
>a favorite. But to
>claim that the general public
>is so open to manipulation
>by the show is just
>false. I don't believe
>it one bit.
>
>geekboy


I agree with you 100%. It hink it's crazy to think there are conspircy theories involved in this pop idol contest. Winning is about who gets the most votes and the viewing audience makes that decision. I think people are constantly looking for excuses when things don't turn out as they think they should when it comes to American Idol. The only AI champ I don't like is Carrie Underwood but I don't think there was manipulation used to have her win. I think more of her fans voted and she won. Period. The same goes for all the winners and for everyone who moves forward. The judges only control who goes to Hollywood and from there who will compete for America's vote.

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Magnolia_Rocker 2139 desperate attention whore postings
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03-08-06, 02:03 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"
I think its kind of naive to think that Simon isn't trying to manipulate us into choosing his favorite. He wants the singer to win that will make him the most money so for that reason of course he trys to manuever the public to the one he thinks is the best.
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Bebo 20886 desperate attention whore postings
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03-08-06, 03:42 PM (EST)
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15. "For future reference..."
Please do not post the same information multiple times - it's a violation of the community guidelines. If you want to reference comments you've already made, the best way to do that is to post a link to your prior comments, but don't copy them into another post.

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zazzy 4390 desperate attention whore postings
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03-08-06, 04:40 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: For future reference..."
Sorry Bebo. I edited out the post in the other thread. Hope that helps.
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Snidget 44369 desperate attention whore postings
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03-08-06, 04:16 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"
Do the judges/producers have a vested interest in who wins? Yep, they are giving them a contract and if the person who wins cannot sell records they get screwed.

How much of the some people getting better edits/better comments is manufactured vs unintentional or unavoidable is probably hard to know.

Some people got great storylines and so are going to get more attention given to them in the audition rounds because they got a story that is entertaining enough to get the attention. Is it fair that we get a lot on some people early and not others? Probably not. I'd like to see everyone in the top 24 at least get a little exposure during the early parts, but if they are just going along doing their thing not causing trouble or standing out in some way they won't get the early air time. People that make a big splash in some way, or have one of those hard-luck gee I hope they can make it stories are gonna get the airtime.

Does everyone get judged fairly? Probaby not. Even when someone tries to evaluate something subjective like a performance in the most objective manner possible there is likely to be some unconcious subjectivity to their judging. They are human beings, and they aren't going to somehow be able to do something no human being can just because they are on a very popular TV show.

I've seen the comments go both ways. I think there are some people that get saved because enough people just want to prove Simon wrong about that person going home that they vote for them like crazy.

Do the judges opinions and the producers story telling influence the viewers? Probably yes. Again we are human beings and cannot help ourselves. Doesn't make AI voters any more sheep-like than any other group of people. The voters are human and pure objectivity is not in the realm of what we can actually do. We can try, but a lot of things will influence how much you prefer one performance to another.

Again I don't know how much is just part and parcel with having human beings producting/judging the show and how much is them sitting in an office trying to figure out what they can do to manipulate others into doing their bidding. There may be some that is a concious effort to steer the public, but I bet a lot of it is unavoidable.

Imaginary friends by Bob!

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Ricky 1106 desperate attention whore postings
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03-08-06, 04:44 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"
I think Simon does steer us in a particular direction. We'll see if Kinnck is gone after Thursday since he told her she's going home.

Also, Simon said he preferred Kellie Pickler to last year's winner. Even if she had a bad night he wouldn't tell her she's going home. And she won't be.


"My mother was deaf"-Shanna Moakler

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zazzy 4390 desperate attention whore postings
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03-08-06, 04:45 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"
LAST EDITED ON 03-08-06 AT 04:59 PM (EST)

There is a poll on MSN for IDOL...and from what I recall Kelly has a lot of fan support. I'll see if I can find the link.

Edited to add links:


Here's the link for who should be going home (female):

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11719942/

I won't post the results because someone reading this may want to wait for the show. --is there someway to have the data here but hidden, only to be read if you highlight it? --

And here's the link for fav overall contestant:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11644476/


Top 4 overall this week --before the guys --sing:

Chris 30%, Taylor 15%, Kellie 13% and Mandisa 11%--the only ones with double digit support. The rest of the field is splintered with less than 10% each.

It will be interesting to track the data as the show unfolds. MSN may skew older than the average age for Idol voters. It may reflect the Idol viewers more than voters.

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opinionated 151 desperate attention whore postings
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03-12-06, 03:40 PM (EST)
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36. "RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"
Regarding the msnbc poll...

Last year it was almost always right as far as who would get the boot. I checked it pretty much every week. It also showed strong support for Carrie and Bo week after week.

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anotherkim 14420 desperate attention whore postings
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03-09-06, 00:22 AM (EST)
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20. "RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"

While I agree up to a point that Simon and the others influence opinion, I have to also state that Simon usually expresses my opinion when he says that someone sucks. Melissa, for example, is awful to me. I thought her performance of the Heart song was bad. I thought Kinnick was terrible. I thought Chris' Seether song was boring. I don't need him to tell me these things--I already know them and I like hearing someone agree with me instead of insipid Paula telling them that they all have a golden spirit and other blather.

They are all going to have "favorites", but I think that what Simon does is look at the contestants from a more professional and realistic standpoint than the others tend to do: who would make a good recording artist and an American Idol/pop star. Kevin? Not a chance. Lisa? Not unless she grows up considerably. Taylor? It will be difficult in today's age of video. And so on.

I don't think they are pushing people toward one person or another at this point so much as they are just making sure that the facts are on the table and that people consider them before they go to vote. Hopefully with three people there to present opinions, there will be a good representation to help people make their decisions instead of just voting because so and so is cute or from Tennessee.

Did Simon push for Carrie last year? I don't think so. I think what he did do was make it very obvious early on that the others had better step up to the plate or she would win. She had more "star power", whatever that is, and he pointed it out. Just like with Mandisa and Chris this season. It would be ridiculous of him or Randy or Paula to pretend that the rest of the group were even in the same league as the two of them at this point. They aren't, vocally. The rest better get busy or they will be left in the dust. It's not hype. It's the cold, hard truth.


Miscellaneous Ramblings
--I'm all about the truth--it's refreshing.

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03-09-06, 02:32 AM (EST)
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21. "RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"
"I was thinking of starting a thread about how AI steers certain people into to the top ten to create ratings."

Well of course the producers steer/pick the final 12. Look at the initial auditions....we all saw great personalities with great voices. Where are the contestants that we all thought were so great when they got their "Hollywood Ticket"? They got cut in the four room deal. It's evidenced by the shots of the judges looking at pictures trying to get down to the top 30. Maybe they didn't have the "right" look, or maybe it was nerves. But the public was not able to see the reason some of our favs from the intial auditions were cut.

They are trying to pick the ones they think have "it". And, since the judges are not perfect and are biased they make mistakes. They cut people that could have won, or they leave in contestants that in the end realize are not as talented as they at first thought.

The judges cannot come down hard on ALL the contestants because it would make them look inept at picking the winners. That's why I think they build up the contestants that are a little weak.

Simon is usually on the money but occasionally it's perfectly clear who his favs are. Tonight I thought Elliot was weak but for some odd reason the judges built him up. I think the judges have visualized who the top 12 will be right from the end of the first auditions. Granted, we don't always "hear" what the audience hears, but the public is not stupid. From Simon's making fun of Mendisa's "chair" to Randy's putting his favs in the Dog Pound, the judges fix is in.

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03-09-06, 09:02 AM (EST)
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22. "RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"
There is no doubt as to the judges having their favorites - and their subtle (and seemingly highly effective) way of 'tweaking' the audience on their voting.

Nevertheless, this show is NOT about finding the new popstar.

Afterall, how much money are they really making from all 4 AI winners? Lets say, for arguements, that they still get income from all 48 of the top 12 finalist from each 4 seasons. Income from CD's and Concerts are easily in the 10's of millions...

BUT...

How much money has FORD, COKE, and FOX poured into the AI cash-stream? Has to be in the BILLIONS for 4 years going into the 5th. Billions!

So, the whole point of the show is -- keep the singers in place that will draw the best variety of viewer so more Coke can be bought by people on their way to the Ford dealership!

Any person they can turn into a recording artist and make a few bucks from them - that's just gravy!

Doesn't mean that the show is rigged or that there isn't any entertainment value. I love it and look forward to each season. But the way to watch the show is to record it and TIVO past the commercials! And of course, to come here and enjoy the commentary!

Archon

"You can get more with a 2x4 and a kind word than with just a kind word." (Marcus, B5)

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03-09-06, 03:55 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"
Good point archon, you can't rule out the almighty advertisers!

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03-09-06, 09:41 AM (EST)
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23. "RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"
You Know this could be a very long message But I will try to keep it short. Unforunately this is also a popularity contest. Proof is Clay Aiken. He sucks but has a following. And the fans pushed him through he is the but of every comedians jokes. Simon Never liked him. That is why Ace will be here next week and someone else with a better voice will be sacrificed. Melissa has a nice voice as does Kinnik but they are not in the same class with the rest of the girls. Saying that the fans vote them through and i have seen worse injustices. Do the judges have favorites, yes we all do. But its like Ryan says if you do not vote do not complain because you did nothing to help keep your favorite here until next week.
Jags
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03-09-06, 11:00 AM (EST)
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24. "RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"
Guy's show: 8 guys left

First, Simon's comments:

Gedeon: Tells him he is quite odd, good caberet, over the top

Chris: Remarks he is not so impressed, it was indulgent

Kevin: Says: like puppies playing; getting granny votes, juvenile

Bucky: Tells him he is adequate, ok, like what you hear in a bar

Will: Says: completely utterly average; has middle age vote

Taylor: Tells him you could kill the music video indistry; you were having fun; stood out; best performance so far

Elliot: Says: here's my blueprint (yes he used the word blueprint)--cop out that the song was for you; disconnect between you and the song

Ace: You made that work; parts of vocal not that great

Next: who got 'extra' this week?

--Taylor got a spotlight --extra time on the couch with Ryan S before Bucky and Will sang (and Taylor got the best of Simon's comments, too) that was not connected to when Taylor sang

--Bucky's twin, Rocky, is brought up on stage after Bucky sings

If there were other extras before someone sang I may have missed them due to channel surfing during commercials and not getting back fast enough to the show.

I thought it was interesting that they suppressed the identical twin story for Bucky until now, considering that we saw several twin stories in the audition phase. Did they bring up his twin now because he may go next or to help him stay? I think the twin angle would add interest to someone's story.

So, this week Taylor got the spotlight and praise while Chris's fans were maybe goosed by Simon's comments?

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03-09-06, 04:18 PM (EST)
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26. "RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"
Did they bring up his twin now because he may go next or to help him stay?

The "twin story" came out now because it was the "secret about him no one knew". I don't see that as manipulation.


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03-09-06, 04:19 PM (EST)
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27. "RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"
I agree with you Zazzy. It does seem that the marketers of the show do steer the viewers toward certain contestants. But, in my opinion, the marketing is more to keep the ratings up than to steer people to vote for any one person. The more interest they can generate for contestants the more viewers they will get.

For instance, during this years audition phase there was a whole little story about Kellie Pickler. The fact that she was from a small town and that her dad was in prison. All that was told before we even got to Hollywood. It was obvious to me that Kellie would be around for a long time.

The affect all the attention to Kellie had on me as a viewer is that I remember her name and her face. I just recently began remembering the names and faces of other contestants. Although she is NOT one of my favorites. I bet other people fell in love with her and vote for her because of it.

Kellie's hard luck story is very marketable. It will get people behind her, it will make people like her, and utimately it will keep the ratings for the show up. Same goes for Simon's comments about Mandisa's weight that is enough to keep people watching to see if she does well in the competition. You want to see her win because of Simon's rude comments about her. Speaking of Simon and his comments. The producers want Simon to be nasty. Most times, I agree with Simon but this show wouldn't be half as entertaining if he were honest but tactful.


I don't think the fact that AI markets certain things including the contestants is insulting to the American audience but utlimately this "contest" is about money. In order to keep the show entertaining and thus keep the ratings up they have to market things and they use the "material" they get from the contestants and judges to do that.


Even though it's a singing competition at the end of the day it is a television show that has to maintain ratings to stay on the air.

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03-10-06, 09:12 AM (EST)
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28. "RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"
March 9 Results Show

I missed 98 percent of the results show due to a taping malfunction but the MSN summary makes some points for me.

I thought Gedeon would find enough support to make it to the top 12--but the MSN article points out his backstory never got the spotlight that some other stories did.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/11752782/

From the article:

(snip)

Tough road
McKinney is a textbook example of a contestant who would have stood a much better chance had the producers chosen to tell more of his backstory. He was supposed to audition in Memphis in September, but the auditions were canceled because of Hurricane Katrina. The teenager then went to Chicago, after raising the money by holding a concert at the Yo! Memphis Academy of Visual and Performing Arts and getting a donation from a local police association.

He earned his ticket to Hollywood, but in December, before the semifinals, his father died. McKinney chose to stay in the competition anyway, and sang well each week. Perhaps had he gotten the airtime that Chris Daughtry and Taylor Hicks received before the semifinals started, that would have given him a fan base that would have carried him to the finals.

(snip)

This is like the Bucky twin story being surpressed until the last show, only Bucky got the help while Gedeon did not. Looks like it did help Bucky get through to the final 12. If Gedeon had had his backstory spotlighted more, would he have gotten more voter support? Or maybe there are more country fans helping Bucky than we know. In any event, isn't this the first AI final twelve with no African-American male contestant?

One part of the show I did see (after the tribal council booting concluded on Survivor) was when Ryan gathered the contestants around him at the end of the show and said something like "one of these is your next American Idol".

Arranged on either side of him were Chris and Taylor. Camera had a nice tight shot on Ryan, with those guys on either side--not a shot that panned across the twelve arranged around Ryan. Kelly was right next to Chris. I do purposely say arranged. We know from MSN and AOL polls that those three are tops in the polls. I will be very surprised if a woman wins this year's idol or at this point if Chris or Taylor are not F2. It will be interesting to watch what theme nights do to each of them. First up, Stevie Wonder night, should go well.

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03-10-06, 09:44 AM (EST)
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29. "Who of the F12 was spotlighted in the audition rounds?"
Who of the F12 was spotlighted in the audition rounds? Were all of their auditions shown?

I did not see all of them--please add details! Thanks!

Chris--I think his audition was shown --is he the one that had his family story spotlighted?

Taylor--I remember his audition and how Simon did not like him

Elliot--pretty sure his was shown because I think his wierd facial hair stood out

Ace--pretty sure his was shown and didn't they comment on his looks?

Kevin--pretty sure his was shown as well as his parents afterwards. I remember his dad hugging him.

Bucky--not sure if his was shown. If they did, I do not think he got his story played up like Kelly did.


Mandisa--we know hers was shown--Simon's snarky comments sealed that for us!

Kelly--hers was definitely shown complete with dad in prison backstory

Paris--hers was shown and they made sure spotlight to her famous grandmother

Lisa--not sure if hers was shown

Katherine--pretty sure hers was shown

Melissa--not sure if hers was shown


-----

Not a comment about steering but something interesting--did you notice that 3 of the final 12 are from NC (Kelly, Bucky, Chris) and 8 of the final twelve are from the south --the other 5 are Taylor-AL, Paris-GA, Mandisa-TN, Melissa-FL, Elliot-VA)?

Lisa and Katherine are from California, Ace is from Colorado and Kevin is from NY.

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03-10-06, 03:43 PM (EST)
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31. "RE: Who of the F12 was spotlighted in the audition rounds?"
Lisa Tucker's audition was shown. I was actually surprised that many of the contestants audtion tapes were shown.

It also seemed to me that this year they provided backstory on certain contestants much earlier than ever before.

I think the backstory helps but I realy believe that in the end many contestants are either voted off or kept on because of their talent and ability to win the audience over. I don't remember alot of backstory on Fantasia until she was clearly a public favorite. I don't remember a lot of backstory on Ruben or Clay until much later in the competition.

I do agree with the article you provided a link to that Gedeon would have benefitted had his story been shared. The backstory definitely helps but I think it's more to it than just that.

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03-10-06, 05:05 PM (EST)
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32. "vote for worst info"
Read about the return of vote for the worst again this year in a post by Snidget on another thread. Their site at http://www.votefortheworst.com/ picks people to back in a snarky way--they ask people to back the 'worst' of those who are competing and this week they are deciding between Kelly and Kevin. They say may have helped Kevin get into the F12. Some believe they helped keep Scott Savol in the competition last year.

They also had info on Kelly Pickler--and a link to this tv news video that shows Kelly competing in a Charlotte, NC singing contest called "Gimme the Mike" :

http://www.wsoctv.com/video/7329335/detail.html

There is a quick ad before the 3+ minute story and film clip of Kelly competing in 2005.

This contrasts to the Kelly story portrayed by AI that she has barely performed. Wonder if she will resurrect "Stand By Your Man" for this contest.

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zazzy 4390 desperate attention whore postings
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03-11-06, 11:09 AM (EST)
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33. "RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"
LAST EDITED ON 03-11-06 AT 11:09 AM (EST)

Another stage Kelly has been on is when Kelly competed for Miss North Carolina in 2004. Her talent was country singing.

Did AI put that tidbit in her backstory? They seem very invested in having her be a hick.


Edited to add link--Kelly in half way down the page:

http://www.geocities.com/missusamagicj/ncarolina2004.html

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03-11-06, 03:11 PM (EST)
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34. "RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"
Zazzy wow, U have certainly done your research.
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zazzy 4390 desperate attention whore postings
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03-11-06, 03:25 PM (EST)
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35. "RE: Does AI (Simon, producers, et al) steer contestants into the top 10?"
I read both of those tidbits at votefortheworst . Snarky board, but they do have some data. I only brought over what was easily confirmed as fact.

I also read on another board that Melissa did NOT get any early audition spotlighting--first time audience heard her was round one of the semifinals -- and that she is the F12 solely due to audience support (we know that Simon wanted her gone along with Kinnik this week). Can she make it another week or will the lack of story support by the producers do her in? Or does Simon shift gears and shower someone else with the "ticket home" comment therefore motivating their fans?

And who washes out due to the theme this week--having a less than stellar showing? All of this makes it interesting to watch I must say!

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