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"USA Today writer slams final four as 'mediocre'"
PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-05, 12:29 PM (EST)
 
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"USA Today writer slams final four as 'mediocre'" |
I was really surprised when I saw this article this morning and I thought I would poll the board and see what you all thought. The gist of the two articles this morning was:- The castoffs (specifically Anwar, Nadia and Nikko) are way better than any of the final four. I disagreed strongly with this one. With the exception of Anthony, I think that the people who are in the final ARE the best singers left in this competition. Anwar and Nadia, as much as I was a fan of both, seemed to lose steam the further they went into the competition and their performances certainly deteriorated over time. Nikko never really got a fair shake or a chance to build a fan base, but them's the breaks bucko. - This seasons winner will sell fewer albums than any previous winner, including Fantasia. Again, I thought this seemed to be ridiculous. The show has actually INCREASED ratings over last year and all three of the legitimately good finalists have a strong and loyal fan base. Personally, I would likely buy the first album of any of this group and I'd NEVER considered buying Fantasia or Diana or Jasmine's albums... IMHO there is no comparision between this season, in which most of the top 12 were pretty strong contestants overall (except Scott), especially when compared to a very, very weak group last year. So what do you guys think? Is this season awful, great? Did the right people get through (mostly)? Is USA Today nuts? Am I nuts for giving a carp what their McPaper says? 
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geekboy 1788 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-05, 01:25 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: USA Today writer slams final four as 'mediocre'" |
I think its ludicrous for any Newspaper writer to predict how any AI winner is going to do with their CD sales.The problem with whether an AI winner sells CD is that in the past *cough* *fantasia & ruben* *cough* have hooked up with producers/writers who attempt to change them dramatically from what won them over w/ AI viewers. Fantasia and Ruben did just this and where are they now? Kelly and Clay should be examples. Give the people what they want. This is why I feel Bo will be huge. He knows who he is, the audience loves him, make a true Bo CD and it will sell like crazy. geekboy
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cambo 286 desperate attention whore postings
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05-11-05, 00:44 AM (EST)
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11. "RE: USA Today writer slams final four as 'mediocre'" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-11-05 AT 00:47 AM (EST)>The problem with whether an AI
>winner sells CD is that
>in the past *cough* *fantasia
>& ruben* *cough* have hooked
>up with producers/writers who attempt
>to change them dramatically from
>what won them over w/
>AI viewers. Fantasia and
>Ruben did just this and
>where are they now?
>
>Kelly and Clay should be examples.
> Give the people what
>they want. It's not a matter of Fantasia and Ruben hooking up with producers who try to change them. It's just that they have a different target audience to begin with. It's highly unlikely an A&R rep is going to give an Christina Aguilera or Avril Lavigne written song to Fantasia, just as they're not going to give an urban contemporary song to Clay. Fantasia and Ruben are R&B singers, while Kelly and Clay are pop singers. It's as simple as that. Being pop singers, they both have MTV behind them, which is a HUGE factor in album sales.
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Lisapooh 12664 desperate attention whore postings
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05-11-05, 01:59 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: USA Today writer slams final four as 'mediocre'" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-11-05 AT 02:22 AM (EST)It's not that they are mediocre. I don't think any of them are mediocre vocalists. I just don't think any of them can generate the kind of rabid fans that we've seen from past winners/standouts. Kelly was an incredible vocalist and had a great, bankable bubbliness and charm. She also really grew as an artist as the season progressed and people were invested in and routing for her success. Ruben had fans who would hit redial until their fingers fell off. He was a distinctive, niche vocalist with a motivated fan base. Clay was charismatic, an underdog and again inspired a legion of fans. He had an incredible voice and tremendous stage presence that only grew as the season went on. You jsut knew he would never be in danger of getting the boot, and he wasn't. Fantasia was a lightening rod - love her or hate her - you felt something and that is american Idol gold. She is a great song stylist and always connects well with her audience. The American Idol star-making machine had a backstory to get behind each year. Something to sell to the public. This year, not so much? With the possible exception of Bo - none of this year's final 4 have that ownership with the audience. Vonzell is an underdog you cheer for - but do you feel like you know her or have anything invested in her? I KNEW the kids in the other seasons by this point - I don't feel like I know this year's finalists at all. I'm not connected to any of them. I don't care who wins. But I do think they are all very talented. The talent at this year's final 4 surpasses the other seasons. Only season 2's final three of Ruben, Clay & Kim L. rival this. It's the "it" factor that is mediocre this time around - not the level of talent. I think the contestants with the most "star potential" (not necessarily talent - but that whole "it" thing) were Constantine and Nadia. For whatever reason, they could not sustain it throughout the competition. they aren't suited to this format, but I think they have a lot of potential. Nikko and Jessica too perhaps. But then there's someone like Anwar who is a great singer but a horrible performer. You need both - but you need the presence more. You need to inspire people to pick up the phone and hit redial for-ever. That comes from being a winning performer with a magnetic personality. That's gonna trump just being a great singer most of the time in a show like this.
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PhoenixMons 4696 desperate attention whore postings
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05-11-05, 02:47 AM (EST)
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13. "RE: USA Today writer slams final four as 'mediocre'" |
I disagree strongly that Nadia and Anwar are better than the final four (Nadia's voice was nothing special at all, but she had the style/charisma on stage...Anwar had a good voice when it comes to the technical stuff, but he looked foolish on stage and his voice was like chalk on a blackboard to me). Nikko should be in the final four instead of either Carrie or Anthony. I still think Scott is more talented than at least half of the top 12. Bo & Vonzell definitely belong in the top 4 and I think it should come down to the two of them. It won't, but it should. I definitely won't buy any of these folks' albums (unless Nikko comes out with an album). The performances this season have been the most boring and average of all of the seasons thus far. There has not been a single 'knock your socks off' performance from anyone. I can name performances from each of the past seasons that blew me away. This season I cannot. That's saying something. That these people are probably the most talented across the board (not really anyone devoid of talent) makes it that much worse when we get week after week of boring and ho-hum performances. Bo is my favorite because he's consistent, but he's not my favorite because he's wowed me. No one has. I completely disagree with your thoughts about last season being weak. Last season was definitely the season with the biggest number of 'excellent' contestants. Fantasia, Jennifer, LaToya, & George were all exceptional. These four are light years better than this season's best four (and any other season's best four - probably the best four from any of the other AIs combined). I'd say season two was the weakest by far. We were treated to such gems as Carmen Rasmussen, Julia Demato, Kimberly Caldwell, Vanessa Olivarez, Charles Grigsby, Josh Gracin, and the now infamous Corey Clark (whose voice I actually enjoyed at the time). The five strongest vocalists were Clay, Ruben, Kimberley Locke, Rickey Smith, and Trenyce, but performance-wise, they were all very weak. This season has been very disappointing. After seeing some truly phenomenal auditions, I have been pretty dissatisfied with the show and the performances. I think the voting has actually been pretty accurate this season except for Nikko's ouster and that Carrie has not been in the bottom three after some truly ghastly performances (if you can call them that). The right people have gone home almost every week, which is a HUGE difference from season's past. Sucky performances (unless delivered by Carrie) are rewarded with the boot! Go figure! I think the record sales will depend on who is crowned AI4 champ. If it's Carrie (please no), she'll probably do well. Bo will probably do well, but certainly nothing like Kelly Clarkson or Clay. Vonzell could be sucessful if she sticks to pop instead of trying to branch out to R&B. Fantasia stuck with her genre and she's doing well within that genre, but she's not a pop sensation. Ruben is in a genre with a slew of fantastic male vocalists and where a good portion of the singers are also dancers. He didn't have much of a chance to do well with record sales. Kelly was also the first idol, so she had the benefit of breaking that ground and getting lots of people interested in her and her album/music because the concept was new at the time. She's got a great voice plus she's in the 'right' genre to sell tons of records. I think there could be something to the lesser album sales argument. Given that AI is in its fourth season, it's not new any more. I think each season will garner less and less attention once the show is over (in terms of artists' success) because we've already got a slew of past Idol contestants with records out there. It just loses something with each new season.  
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PhoenixMons 4696 desperate attention whore postings
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05-11-05, 10:03 AM (EST)
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18. "RE: USA Today writer slams final four as 'mediocre'" |
I don't hate country, Glowie  - I just haven't liked anyone who has been 'country' on the show. Heck, I watched the Nashville Star finale because I was hoping I'd see something better than what AI's given us this season. Actually, while I don't like country music very much, I think the vast majority of big time country singers are phenomenal - and country singers give some of the best live performances...they sound almost just like their recordings (unlike a whole LOT of rock/pop singers and bands). I'm also not saying Josh hasn't been successful. I'm saying he was not very good on the show and he was very much out of his league when it came down to the end. I really liked him in the initial auditions (just as I really liked Carrie in the initial auditions this season). I'm not saying he doesn't have any talent. And as much as I like Scott's voice, I'd probably lump him in with this season's 'gems' because he has been totally off since the final 12 began. Not sure where you're getting that I don't think we should have a country idol either, Glowie. I was rooting for Carrie before she started to look like a zombie on stage each and every week and no matter how flat and 'off' she was, she was praised and not called out on it (last night was I think the first time she was really called out, and last night was way better than at least two of her past performances). I think it'd be great if we had a country idol. As a matter of fact, I'm surprised we haven't had one yet because so much of America loves country music. I was stunned when Ruben won and even more stunned when Fantasia won because they don't have the mass appeal (being R&B) that a regular pop or even country idol would. I do happen to think that the best voices (for the most part) have belonged to R&B-style singers (not just on AI...in the 'real' music world as well), which is part of why I'm a huge fan of R&B. I think the genre is full of the best singers (as is country - I just don't particularly like the style of music itself) AND I like the music. I happen to think that the four best vocalists from season three were R&B singers. If the four best singers in any given season were/are country singers or rockers or what-have-you then so be it. Sure not everyone shares my opinion, but PRE asked for our opinions and I tried to word my response as it being my opinion. Guess I failed  As for this season, I do like Bo this season, but I just haven't been wowed. And that may be because rock isn't a genre I really like. I doubt it though because I'm pretty unbiased when it comes to good performances/voices. I just didn't want you to think I was saying that I thought AI should be R&B Idol...not at all. I think Clay had the best voice from season two. I don't like his diction and phrasing for pop music, but there's no denying his talent. And I still think this season belongs to Bo. No question in my mind he's the best this season...but I'm still not blown away by any one performance like I have been in the past. Just figured I'd clarify since I guess I wasn't clear in my first post.
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PhoenixMons 4696 desperate attention whore postings
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05-11-05, 11:34 AM (EST)
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20. "RE: USA Today writer slams final four as 'mediocre'" |
Hmmmm...Well I do like Bo quite a bit. I can't say that I like him more than my favorites of past seasons (which is not entirely true since I like him better than anyone from season 1 or 2, and I do think he's the best of this season's finalists, even though you know how much I adore Nikko - Bo IS better and deserves to win this hands down). I just happened to like four people from season three a whole lot. I think Bo is super consistent but (in my eyes anyway) there just hasn't been any one performance that has knocked my socks off. He's always great. Maybe I just don't remember because the season as a whole has been disappointing and I'm growing tired of the whole show. That very well could be it, actually. Maybe I don't remember because of my ADHD  I dunno. All I know is that I hope Bo wins. If he doesn't win, the wrong person will have been crowned this season, IMO. I'd definitely rank him in my top ten of all seasons. He's probably in my top five (just after the fab four of season three) as a matter of fact. Now that I think about it, I probably am just tired of the whole show in general. And maybe my opinion of Bo is clouded as a result. On another note...of course everyone I like is great...to me I have said time and time again that I cannot fault others for having different taste - some people really liked Carmen. Some people really liked John (I felt horrible for him each week when he thought that he was going home and didn't - he was a breath of fresh air for the finals though...brought a totally different light to the season even though I don't think he was vocally on par with the others). I might not agree with them, but I don't think they should just like whomever I like because I like them. Of course my favorites are my favorites, though. And of course I'm going to say how great they are because I think they are great. Me being a singer and musican, I guess I feel like a more qualified judge than non-singers sometimes...that's the same way I feel when I hear people praise less-than-talented 'dancers'. That's probably arrogant of me, but I can't help it  Growing up in the performing arts, I'm pretty critical of others in the 'industry'. And I probably do favor R&B singers more than others because I enjoy listening to what they are singing more than what others may be singing. But a bad R&B singer (Charles Grigsby, Christina Christian, Travis from this season) is not going to escape my wrath just because I like the music they're singing. If you butcher a Stevie song, you're gonna hear about it from me Does that make sense? Would a *smooch* help? 
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zazzy 4390 desperate attention whore postings
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05-11-05, 09:31 AM (EST)
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17. "RE: USA Today writer slams final four as 'mediocre'" |
I disagree with the author. He is clearly not a rocker fan.This has been the most interesting season since AI1 for me. I liked Kelly C and did not get the appeal of Justin but I am not teeny bopper. I do not like what they have done with Kelly but I am happy for her success. AI2 I liked Clay and was disappointed that Ruben won. We know Clay has done really well in sales and I think Clay will continue to ripen as a talented singer. AI3 was a disappointment for me after Latoya was booted. I did not care for Fantasia; I did see one of her videos recently and thought she did a good job on it and I think they changed her less from what she was on the show than they did Kelly. This season I like so many people. Bo may well be the winner and I am prepared to buy his CD, the first of any AI contestant I would buy. And I would guess there are many like me that have been waiting for someone like Bo. Hey, the rockers of the 70's are aging and there have not been many to replace them. It is nice to see someone like Bo step up. Some people have commented that there have not been performances that have blown them away. When we get away from Nashville and showtunes I think we will be really happy. Will we finally have a show where they can pick what they want to sing? Bring back Spinning Wheel and Whipping Post! No way Nikko and Anwar were performing at final four levels. I wish Constantine was still in it but am pleasantly surprised with how Anthony has done the past three weeks. This is a 'pop' contest. Anthony delivers the 'pop'. I was on the boot Anthony wagon early on but am enjoying him now. He and Vonzel are the most 'pop' of this pop contest. I liked Nadia and I think she could do well if she does an album; I thought the same of Latoya--has she done one yet? Vonzel has come on strong the past few shows, the country song last night aside, and she will do well after the show. I can already hear Carrie on the crossover country stations. I think overall this crop of AIers will do better than the other seasons. There are two shows left. I expect to see the 'memorable' performances the next two weeks and hope they get to pick their best for us--not stuck in a set genre. I did not like that these 4 were pushed to do Nashville but that is what they gave us. How do you expect a memorable performance from anyone but Carrie with that?
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Fishercat 4168 desperate attention whore postings
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05-11-05, 08:15 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: USA Today writer slams final four as 'mediocre'" |
Honestly, AI3 and AI4 can be easily described in baseball terms. The AI3 crew reminded me a lot of the 2003-2004 San Francisco Giants. Namely, they had a few singers who I think could be/could have been superstars. Fantasia (although I didn't like here) had a strong voice and an interesting personality, LaToya is one of the best voices ever on AI, George was charismatic and one of the better males on this show, and Jennifer was ousted way too soon). They had 4 people I would consider to have semi-star to star quality, and one could argue maybe Jasmine Trias (I didn't see it for Diana Degarmo, although I liked her). After that though, there was a massive dropoff. If that group are the Barry Bonds and Jason Schmidts, and going back, Jeff Kents and Russ Ortizes of the competition, then the rest of them are the Mike Mathenys (2005), Marquis Grissoms, and Matt Hergeses of the group. Namely, they were subpar. In laymen's terms, the AI3 crew had talent, just not dpeth.The AI4 group, on the other hand, reminds me a bit of a team like the Anaheim Angels of 2004-2005. I think there is one true superstar remaining, that if I had went to concert, I'd pay to see him, it's clearly Bo Bice. After Bo, we have a LOT of talent, just nothing spectacular. After your Vladimir Guerrero (Bo), you have your Garret Andersons, Francisco Rodriguezes, etc. Meaning, you have a lot of talented players who either have some flaw or are just not spectacular enough to make it big. I can see the point of the article, and to determine the strength of your field, you have to determine how deep you want to go. If you take your Top/Fine 4, I might take the AI3 crew over the AI4, since I loved George, and the three divas were interesting and powerful, while the AI4 group has one guy I'm interested in that's still there, and only one other one I'd be interested in if he was still there (Nikko, although I did like Scottie too). However, if you expand the field, to say, 8, then AI4 takes charge. Nadia, Anwar, Constantine, and (let's say Nikko if we just take the current Final 4) take the lead from the John Stephens and Camille Velasco's of the world.  A generous Icecat donation
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