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"What the heck does Simon know about Broadway?"
tamarama 1785 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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04-05-05, 06:37 PM (EST)
 
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"What the heck does Simon know about Broadway?" |
With tonight’s theme possibly being “musicals” I decided to pull out my soap box and address something that’s been driving me nuts since the beginning of AI (ok, season 2 anyway…I missed AI1).Several times contestants have been told that they are too “Broadway” or “cabaret.” Mostly, of course, by Simon. “Sorry, not right for this competition, better head for Broadway!!!” Wha ha? (if only it were that easy to get on Broadway!) The people and performances that have gotten these comments have been rightly criticized, just with the wrong language!!! (ignorant language) Kimberly Caldwell, Clay (a couple of times), Vanessa…I can’t remember all the others. These performances were indeed ‘showy’. But that doesn’t make them appropriate for musical theater – in fact, it makes them even LESS appropriate for musical theater than for pop music. The styles that typically show up on AI are pop, rock, r&b, country. Maybe some jazz. The styles that you need to be proficient in to be a well-rounded musical theater performer are pop (Bat Boy), rock (Jesus Christ Superstar), r&b (Dream Girls), country (Big River), jazz (City of Angels), classical (Porgy & Bess), comic/character (lordy, pick one!)…I’m sure there are more. Stylistically, musicals can be anything. To be a musical theater performer, you also need to be able to act. In fact, I would argue that to be ANY kind of singer, you need to be able to act to some degree. Whatever you are singing, in whichever venue, you need to be selling the song – making the audience believe that you are feeling what you are singing. If someone is coming off as too showy, that means their feelings are not believable – not sincere. If it’s obvious that they’re “Performing” – TA DAAAH! then they’re not really “in” the song. Their ‘acting’ is bad. If their acting is so bad they can’t even look sincere while singing a pop song, how in the world could they act well enough to pull off a musical theater role? Bad acting is bad acting is bad acting. Plus – showy or not, good actor or not, singing on the stage in a musical is more vocally challenging than singing into a mic at a concert. Don’t believe me? Ask Donny Osmond (really – ask him). His first attempt at musical theater (can’t remember what it was…it was years ago) was a complete BOMB. From HIS MOUTH, he said he had been singing into microphones all his life, and figured he was pretty good. He found that singing live in a musical was a whole different ball game. Later on, he got a whole-lotta training, and had a very successful run in “Joseph….Dreamcoat (pop style).” With this in mind, are these people “accused” of being “Broadway” REALLY vocally skilled enough to do musical theater? I bet Clay would do ok…the others? teh. I’d like to see them do 8 shows a week. As for cabaret – the word is French (or based-on) for ‘small room’ – by definition it is intimate. Also important to cabaret (as opposed to, say, cocktail music) is sincerity, acting, emotions. A cabaret act tends to have more deep-down, let-it-all-out-now stuff in it. Again – if the acting is so bad that they can’t convince you from a distance (on TV, in a large venue) how on EARTH are they going to convince you up close & personal at the Oak Room? I know I’m ranting, but however much these guys know about the pop music industry (and I’m sure it’s WAY more than I know about it) it’s aggravatingly clear that they know nothing about other branches of the music world -- and they should quit using words they barely understand. *phew* I do feel a little better getting that out of my system. Thank you for your time. (maybe next season I’ll vent about the judges complete lack of knowledge re: vocal technique. WTF is “pitchy”? That’s not a word.)
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DontGetMeStarted 880 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"
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04-05-05, 06:53 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: What the heck does Simon know about Broadway?" |
LAST EDITED ON 04-05-05 AT 07:46 PM (EST)hmm.... well, I guess your not questioning his sexuality then ;)
although with a topic with Broadway and Simon in the title I thought for sure.... .... but I'd love to see the judges on this one since their snide comments include... you should be on the Broadway Stage etc... I have had waaay to much sugar today to make sense -sorry!
(Salt licorice-yum!)
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tamarama 1785 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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04-06-05, 11:13 AM (EST)
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7. "RE: What the heck does Simon know about Broadway?" |
I'd LOVE to join the live chat...alas I don't currently have internet at home. Soon! (thanks for the invite though!)As for 'pitchy' -- I confess, I have used the word. That was mostly my soapbox talking. >>I actually like the performances better that Simon characterizes as too Broadway or showy. It usually seems to me those are the singers who exhibit more control and range.<< Because it's more fun to watch something than to watch nothing!! But when it's just the right amount...oh yeah. >>Again, that's an untrained ear.<< Don't discount an untrained ear!! Whether or not you like something is 100% valid! The only difference is that someone in the know may be more able to tell WHY they didn't like something.
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strid333 2928 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest"
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04-05-05, 11:31 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: What the heck does Simon know about Broadway?" |
I pretty much agree with you.Remember the movie version of Evita, starring Madonna. I remember hearing how she had problems singing loud enough to be heard over the entire orchestra. Now, I personally thought that she acted the role of Eva Peron quite well (there are similarities between Madonna and Eva) but her singing was ok at best. I am a big Madonna fan but I knew that broadway wasn't going to work for her. Broadway is hard. Opera is harder. Pop, imho, is easier than broadway and opera. I think I would rather have a person who CAN sing broadway because it means that s/he is a stronger singer. Oh, and how much did it annoy you that Carrie and Anthony couldn't say Hammerstein properly? It is a German word. That means that you pronounce the second letter in an ei ie combination. My last name is Friesen (as in dang it's cold). The one exception is Leonard Bernstein. His grandfather was Jewish and refused to go by the German pronunciation and Leonard decided to go by his grandfather's word. 
Three is the perfect number.
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Angelfood 2114 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Roller Coaster Inaugurator"
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04-06-05, 12:14 PM (EST)
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8. "Still Agree w/ Simon" |
t,you have alot of great points in there, and I'm glad to see them discussed. (and I love to see another thespian). Musical theatre IS generally harder than pop. I think the songs are more complex and have larger ranges, for the most part. I was trying to think of what song Carrie could have done instead of the snore-fest one, but many of them would probably go too high for her. (Old-time bway is especially geared toward sopranos). But I almost always agree with Simon's observation that someone would be better suited for Broadway. I'm usually saying "yeah, I can see that" during the auditions. I know he's not an expert, but I wouldn't say that he has No idea what he's talking about. I mean, I understand that he's not meaning they can get in "Aida" or do Sondheim, or even actually get in a Broadway production. But they are a shoe-in for your local performance of "Anything Goes". Its showmanship. These singers or their performances are very showy, bordering on corny. But the first lesson about stage acting and singing is that it is usually LARGER than our normal actions, so as to convey to the whole audience, (and opposite of tv acting). This can quickly decline into corny (or heck, for many 1950s/60s musicals, Corny is a requirement). Plus, I've seen many bad, corny and flamboyant performers in Broadway shows. I've seen a High school "Joseph..." that was more serious and less corny than the National Tour (sans Donny). But I digress. I think that many of them Can get on Broadway, with the right look and connections, and decent enough voice (yes, over more deserving people). Constantine's done a Rent tour in Japan, but that's more modern-type music. So, for some of them Showy IS more appropriate for Broadway than pop. Directors will cast them because they are showy and corny. Why do you think Bronson Pinchot and Nathan Lane get leading roles? (I love Nathan tho). I personally don't think that is a good thing, but that is the way it is. Madonna - she was passable, no Patti Lupone, but I've seen worse. Maybe I'm just jaded from my years of Ushering National Theatre, patronizing Bway, and performing community theatre. Its not wrong to expect better.
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I admit to having used the word 'pitchy', I guess it's faster to type than 'off-pitch'. IMHO (fwiw) I actually like the performances better that Simon characterizes as too Broadway or showy. It usually seems to me those are the singers who exhibit more control and range. Again, that's an untrained ear.
