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Conferences American Idol General Discussion Forum (Protected)
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LakerLuv 151 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 02-25-05, 01:50 PM (EST) "Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." LAST EDITED ON 02-25-05 AT 01:51 PM (EST) After reading the elimination thread it seems like a lot of people don't like the elimination episode of AI for varius reasons. It seems that most people believe it's a cruel way to get rid of contestants. I think the contestants should not try out for AI if they are too sensitive to humiliation. This show has been on for three years (right?) and one of it's drawing points to the public is the humiliation factor. Also, contestants have to know and prepare themsleves for the possibility that they may be voted out of the competition any week. I think it's crazy for a contestant to be that shocked when they are voted off. The nature of the competition is the last person standing wins. With that said, how would you change the elimination episode? My only change would be to not drag the results out and to not allow Ryan Seacrest to set people up. Other than that, I like it as it is.   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... yankee fan 02-25-05 1  RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... Tahj 02-25-05 2    RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... LakerLuv 02-25-05 3        RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... Tahj 02-25-05 4            RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... LakerLuv 02-25-05 5            RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... niteowl 02-26-05 9  RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... badger 02-25-05 6  RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... kathliam 02-26-05 7    RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... pmspml5 02-26-05 8  RE: But it is mind games...... Sweety Tweety 02-26-05 10    RE: But it is mind games...... okaychatt 02-27-05 11        RE: But it is mind games...... Sweety Tweety 02-27-05 12        RE: But it is mind games...... Tahj 02-28-05 13            RE: But it is mind games...... okaychatt 02-28-05 18                RE: But it is mind games...... niteowl 02-28-05 21        RE: But it is mind games...... Roo 02-28-05 14  Not Ryan's fault Ricky 02-28-05 15    RE: Not Ryan's fault Tahj 02-28-05 16        RE: Not Ryan's fault Ricky 02-28-05 17            RE: Not Ryan's fault Tahj 02-28-05 20                Ryan proved my point last night... Ricky 03-01-05 22                    RE: Ryan proved my point last night... Tahj 03-01-05 23                        RE: Ryan proved my point last night... Ricky 03-02-05 32        RE: Not Ryan's fault okaychatt 02-28-05 19            RE: Not Ryan's fault badger 03-01-05 24                RE: Not Ryan's fault Tahj 03-01-05 25                    RE: Not Ryan's fault grit 03-01-05 26                        RE: Not Ryan's fault okaychatt 03-01-05 27  RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... yukon33399 03-01-05 28    RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... LakerLuv 03-02-05 29        RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... batts 03-02-05 30    RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... suziekay 03-03-05 36  RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... geg6 03-02-05 31    RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... Tahj 03-02-05 33        RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... geg6 03-03-05 34            RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... LakerLuv 03-03-05 35            RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... Devious Weasel 03-03-05 37                RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... geg6 03-03-05 38                    RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... Tahj 03-03-05 39                        RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... geg6 03-03-05 40                            RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... Tahj 03-03-05 41                                RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... geg6 03-03-05 42                                    RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... Tahj 03-03-05 43                                        RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... nailbone 03-03-05 44                                            RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... Tahj 03-03-05 45                                                RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... nailbone 03-03-05 47                                                    RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... Tahj 03-03-05 48                                                RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... LakerLuv 03-04-05 53                                            RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... geg6 03-03-05 46                    RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... Devious Weasel 03-03-05 49                        RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... geg6 03-03-05 50                        RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... frisky 03-03-05 51                        RE: Changing The Elimination Proces... TeamJoisey 03-03-05 52  Should the losers be allowed to sin... johnnycasino1 03-05-05 54    RE: Should the losers be allowed to... okaychatt 03-06-05 55    RE: Should the losers be allowed to... seahorse 03-06-05 56        RE: Should the losers be allowed to... badger 03-06-05 57    RE: Should the losers be allowed to... Devious Weasel 03-07-05 58

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yankee fan 41 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 02-25-05, 02:15 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." Well, that's it exactly! They set some of the contestants up to allow them to relax and think they're "safe" another week - for example, the final elimination "Judd". That was so mean! Some of these contestants are very young, and to be humiliated so publicly - it's a thin line they're walking here, they should be more careful. Like those old afternoon talk shows that used to be so popular, one day they'll eliminate someone way too sensitive and if this person does something rash - well the show will have to answer for that. I just don't like (personally) watching anyone get really hurt, that's all. I would like to say I'd stop watching the show altogether now, but I do enjoy the singing, I guess I can just avoid watching the elimination night and just wait for the results to be told to me!   Top

Tahj 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 02-25-05, 03:32 PM (EST) 2. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." Getting eliminated is bad enough. It shouldn't be cruel and humiliating as well. Making the contestants squirm by teasing and taunting them is completely unnecessary. I think it's crazy for a contestant to be that shocked when they are voted off. In the past, contestants have handled it quite well, but it's not like they have a choice about how they feel. They can't help how they react and don't have a lot of practice at being eliminated. No matter how prepared some might think they are, until it happens they don't really know what it's like. Moves courtesy of Syren   Top

LakerLuv 151 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 02-25-05, 04:46 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." LAST EDITED ON 02-25-05 AT 04:50 PM (EST) >Getting eliminated is bad enough. >It shouldn't be cruel and >humiliating as well. Making >the contestants squirm by teasing >and taunting them is completely >unnecessary. > >I think it's crazy for a >contestant to be that shocked >when they are voted off. > > >In the past, contestants have handled >it quite well, but it's >not like they have a >choice about how they feel. > They can't help how >they react and don't have >a lot of practice at >being eliminated. No matter how >prepared some might think they >are, until it happens they >don't really know what it's >like. > >Moves courtesy of >Syren I agree you can't control how you will react, but I think the two girls behaved as if they had no clue it could happen to them, particularly the first young lady. She immediately started blaming other factors. The young man had more grace even though he was disappointed too. All I'm saying is, if you're going to go on American Idol, you have to accept the fact that you can be voted off any time during the contest. Not only that, I just don't think anyone who's that sensitive to rejection and humiliation should try to be a Hollywood star. Whats going to happen if they make it as a singer and the press starts reaming them for gaining weight or for not having perfect teeth? Being in the spotlight can be great but it can also be cruel and hurtful. These yong people have seen tabloids and they know how devastating the other side of fame can be. American Idol humiliation is just a scracth on the overall "fame" surface. You have to have thick skin if you want to be a star and most of these kids don't seem to have that at this stage of their lives. I don't think Seacrest should milk the humliating moment for ratings but I don't think the contestants should start blaming everything and everyone except thier performance for why they were voted off. America doesn't owe them a vote. If America likes a contestant, great! But if America doesn't like them, they should bow gracefully, sing thier little song and get off the stage.   Top

Tahj 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 02-25-05, 05:39 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." I agree they should accept the fact and most probably do. I don't think they should necessarily expect it to be done in the way it was. I doubt most expect themselves to react the way they do until it happens. No, they shouldn't react by blaming, but blaming was a reaction, whether they should have done it or not. I mean, think about it--they are on a live television show viewed by millions, with a live studio audience as well. They are nervous to begin with and have to go through the elimination process. They are probably feeling very vulnerable. Fine. Do it, get it over with, and let them sing their song. Don't play games, don't try to throw them for a loop. Be kind and sympathetic. You are right about them being subjected to cruelty and humiliation in the future, for whatever reason, and I think they will all be able to handle it, because situations will be different--they will most likely have some degree of protection. It probably won't be live in front of lots of people, for one thing, so they won't have to react to it publicly. So, DON'T HUMILIATE THEM HERE in front of millions. It's not necessary and serves no one. Simon is already brutal enough. Give them a chance to bow out gracefully. They do have to have a thick skin. Some already do, some don't, especially the younger ones just starting out. They are enduring lots of pressure to perform and do well, spending long hours in practice, and are learning to handle it. But, it takes a toll and it doesn't surprise me that they would say or do things in the moment that they probably don't mean, considering the circumstances. Don't judge them incapable based on that one moment. Moves courtesy of Syren   Top

LakerLuv 151 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 02-25-05, 06:07 PM (EST) 5. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." I agree with you Tahj. I don't think they should be humiliated the way Fox is doing it, but it should not be a surprise to any candidate on American Idol. And you're right: I should not judge the whole group by two reactions. I only hope the other contestants take notes and have a better reaction (if possible) to rejection when it comes. As far as humiliation in the future, think Ashlee Simpson. She was embarassed on SNL and then booed at a football game. It can't get any worse than that for a young performer. It could happen to anyone, any career. Be prepared is all I'm saying.   Top

niteowl 199 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 02-26-05, 04:56 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." Maybe this should be a whole new topic, but do you think it was a conincidence that 3 out of the 4 were contestants with little or no exposure? I know they certainly didn't sound great on performance night, but I just wonder.....   Top

badger 1273 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson" 02-25-05, 06:55 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." LAST EDITED ON 02-26-05 AT 01:29 PM (EST) a couple of thoughts: at this stage in the competition last year, instead of eliminating 2, we were rewarding 2. instead of everyone singing and the bottom 2 going home, smaller groups performed and two from each group advanced. i'm not sure if that changes anything, and i agree that the contestants should be thick skinned. but it seems like in previous years, people have had longer to develop this "skin," after making it through these preliminary rounds. i noticed many emotional contestants on wednesday. i think they'll all settle down, once they get used to it. but will i "get used to it"?!?!? i think by the end of the season, i am going to be sooooooooooooooo over the results show. frequently i don't even watch, or i watch only the last 10 minutes. i think they could EASILY do this show in half an hour, with an hour long show for the finale. but perhaps that's the format they'll switch to soon.   Top

kathliam 3669 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 02-26-05, 09:56 AM (EST) 7. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." Speaking for myself, I was less upset by the actions of the contestants when they were eliminated than the way they were eliminated. For Sarah and Judd, they just looked at them and said 'you're out'. Judd, especially. They led everyone to believe the row he was sitting in was safe, went through the second row of guys one by one, they just turned to Judd and told him he was eliminated. Rejection by the American public is one thing. Humiliation by the producers is another. I don't believe the producers need to coddle the contestants. Yes, if they want to be in the music business (any segment of the entertainment business for that matter) they will need to learn rejection. And I'm sure there are PTB out there that go out of their way to be cruel. I just don't feel it's necessary on AI. It turns us off as viewers.   Top

pmspml5 3263 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 02-26-05, 12:21 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." I just think that the rejection could be done on television in a much more humane way.   Top

Sweety Tweety 16 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 02-26-05, 08:01 PM (EST) 10. "RE: But it is mind games...... " It's one thing to tell a contestant you are "out", and quite another to play silly mind games with the contestants. How would you feel if you were brought down to the stage, listen as they tell two people that they are safe. Then you are told, "stay there" listen to two more people be told that they are safe, and then you are told "ok, your safe too!". MIND GAMES!! What they did to Judd was just WRONG! To tell him, "relax" only to be told, after six other contestants, "ok Judd, you are going home!" MIND GAMES!! WRONG!! Just completely WRONG! Sweety Tweety   Top

okaychatt 2810 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 02-27-05, 12:07 PM (EST) 11. "RE: But it is mind games...... " <WRONG! Maybe so, but the producers are counting on the schadenfreude (delight at the misfortune of others) phenomenon to keep the viewers coming back. It's working, isn't it? Everyone is entitled to my opinion.   Top

Sweety Tweety 16 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 02-27-05, 03:59 PM (EST) 12. "RE: But it is mind games...... " schadenfreude (delight at the misfortune of others) Thank you so much for clarifying that. With my sub-standard high school education, I wouldn't have come close to understanding the meaning of that word. Sweety Tweety   Top

Tahj 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 02-28-05, 11:44 AM (EST) 13. "RE: But it is mind games...... " Maybe, but there is no need to step it up the way they have. The show has been number one with the normal elimination routine and has no need to do something to attract viewers. They are going to tune in to elimination night no matter what. Moves courtesy of Syren   Top

okaychatt 2810 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 02-28-05, 03:55 PM (EST) 18. "RE: But it is mind games...... " <going to tune in to elimination night no matter what. You're probably right. It could be that the producers are suffering from the "It ain't broke, but let's fix it anyway" syndrome. If our message boards are any indication, they've gone too far. Perhaps the Powers That Be will listen up and tone things down a little. I feel bad enough for the unsuspecting peeps and don't need cruel and unusual punishment (CAUP)to increase my delight. Well, unless there's another Jasmine or that awful singer from Hawaii last year that kept inflicting her flat voice on us week after dreadful week. In those kinds of cases, CAUP isn't entirely out of line. Everyone is entitled to my opinion.   Top

niteowl 199 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 02-28-05, 05:45 PM (EST) 21. "RE: But it is mind games...... " . >If our message boards are any >indication, they've gone too far. > Perhaps the Powers That >Be will listen up and >tone things down a little. I often wonder how to get this valuable input into the producers' hands....Do you think they have drones scanning the message boards to get input directly from the viewers? Just wondering what you think...   Top

Roo 705 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 02-28-05, 12:19 PM (EST) 14. "RE: But it is mind games...... " I'm not so sure it's working. I thought that last Wednesday's elimination was unfair to the contestants and not enjoyable to watch. If they keep this up, I'll skip the Wed. night show and get the info. off the web. Handcrafted by RollDdice   Top

Ricky 1106 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest" 02-28-05, 01:18 PM (EST) 15. "Not Ryan's fault" My only change would be to not drag the results out and to not allow Ryan Seacrest to set people up. Other than that, I like it as it is. Some people (even Paula Abdul on Entertainmnet Tonight the other day) are blaming Ryan for setting people up and dragging it out. It's not his doing. There are producers and directors who dictate the content of the show and how it will flow. Ryan isn't making this stuff up (he isn't that creative/devious). He's merely a pawn in the AI chess game.   Top

Tahj 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 02-28-05, 03:13 PM (EST) 16. "RE: Not Ryan's fault" Maybe, but you have to wonder if he doesn't have some input as well. If it were just the producers, wouldn't Paula have known that, too, and not blamed Ryan? Moves courtesy of Syren   Top

Ricky 1106 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest" 02-28-05, 03:36 PM (EST) 17. "RE: Not Ryan's fault" 20 million people watch the show every week. That means a lot of advertising $ coming in. I doubt they would trust Ryan to run the whole show on his own. Again, I think he's a puppet without a brain in his head. He's only following orders.   Top

Tahj 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 02-28-05, 04:58 PM (EST) 20. "RE: Not Ryan's fault" Of course he wouldn't run the show on his own. I didn't say that. That would be absurd. I still think he would have some input even though the producers make the ultimate decision. I just don't buy that he is blameless. Moves courtesy of Syren   Top

Ricky 1106 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest" 03-01-05, 08:20 AM (EST) 22. "Ryan proved my point last night..." I think Ryan proved my point last night. Did you see when the teleprompter went out for a minute during the show ? He could barely even remember the number to call in. He's just reading the show to us. He has absolutley no creative input.   Top

Tahj 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 03-01-05, 11:42 AM (EST) 23. "RE: Ryan proved my point last night..." So you think he has a teleprompter during the eliminations? I don't see how that would work with the contestants right there to read it as well. That means they would know what to expect and it sure doesn't look like they do. Moves courtesy of Syren   Top

Ricky 1106 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest" 03-02-05, 02:43 PM (EST) 32. "RE: Ryan proved my point last night..." So you think he has a teleprompter during the eliminations? I don't see how that would work with the contestants right there to read it as well. The contestants can't read. Singing is their life . Ryan has hand held cards during the elimination show for who actually gets voted off (the contestants can't see the text on his cards). I'm sure there is a teleprompter for the other dialog during the show though, I mean what if he couldn't think of something to say for 5 or 10 minutes ? Dead air ?   Top

okaychatt 2810 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 02-28-05, 04:00 PM (EST) 19. "RE: Not Ryan's fault" <Ryan My theory on Ryan is that he himself is minimally talented and that his own insecurity is flowing into the elimination process. He's made it big through no fault of his own and secretly knows that. This makes it easier for him to pick on the singer peeps. Small people in big jobs have been known to make others' lives miserable just because they can. End of Psych 101 lecture for the day. Everyone is entitled to my opinion.   Top

badger 1273 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson" 03-01-05, 11:56 AM (EST) 24. "RE: Not Ryan's fault" bring back brian dunkelman! NOT   Top

Tahj 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 03-01-05, 01:06 PM (EST) 25. "RE: Not Ryan's fault" Whatever happened to ol' Dunkelman? He would never sell out! Moves courtesy of Syren   Top

grit 4868 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Stuff Magazine Centerfold" 03-01-05, 04:52 PM (EST) 26. "RE: Not Ryan's fault" Whatever happened to ol' Dunkelman? He would never sell out! I bet he would sell out his whole family if he could come back to AI and get the fame and recognition that Seacrest is enjoying! Handcrafted by RollDdice Boy, oh, boy, I hope Fox doesn't ask him back!   Top

okaychatt 2810 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 03-01-05, 07:32 PM (EST) 27. "RE: Not Ryan's fault" <Boy, oh, boy, I hope Fox doesn't ask him back Dunkelman's spiel was worse than the tripe that Seacrest puts out?! Now that takes some imagination. Everyone is entitled to my opinion.   Top

yukon33399 2 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 03-01-05, 09:22 PM (EST) 28. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." My problem with the rules is that they HAVE to keep 6 guys and 6 girls....The girls are not as good......Some really good guy singers are gonna get the boot just to let in some OK girl singers....Thought they were looking for the BEST singer......If the top 12 are ALL guys....so be it.....I don't get the 6 of each thing....we want the BEST singer......thanks   Top

LakerLuv 151 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 03-02-05, 11:45 AM (EST) 29. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." >My problem with the rules is >that they HAVE to keep >6 guys and 6 girls....The >girls are not as good......Some >really good guy singers are >gonna get the boot just >to let in some OK >girl singers....Thought they were looking >for the BEST singer......If the >top 12 are ALL guys....so >be it.....I don't get the >6 of each thing....we want >the BEST singer......thanks I agree with you 100% on this point! It should be the best singer and some really good guys are going to leave to make room for subpar girls.   Top

batts 1731 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 03-02-05, 12:27 PM (EST) 30. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." my thoughts exactly!   Top

suziekay 13 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 03-03-05, 12:30 PM (EST) 36. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." I think the girls are bad because they want a male winner this year. I have at least 4 more girls I'ld kick off right now. Which would only leave 4. As far as the guys, I could easily cut 4 also. I just don't think they are that good. I look at what CD would I buy? Right now the only one I'ld pay for would be Bo's. I think it's going to be really difficult to have another season like season 2. There were so many good performers that have gone on to have good careers out of that season. Josh Gracin is #3 on the country charts. Kimberly Locke has had some radio time. Ruben, the winner, had a tour and of course Clay, CD's, a top 20 concert tour (3 tours) and TV shows. It's going to be hard to top that. I did think it was really mean the way Ryan pulled Celena down by herself right off the bat. At least the guys were called down together. But I don't think Ryan has anything to do with how the elimination playes out. If he doesn't have a telepromter then there is someone in his ear telling him what to do.   Top

geg6 14941 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-02-05, 01:04 PM (EST) 31. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." Well, anyone on these boards who know me will know what I have to say to this, LakerLuv. I agree with you. I have no problem with humiliation and cruelty during the results or, for that matter, at any point during this competition. Welcome to show business, kiddies, and don't let the door hit you in the a$$ on your way out. Could someone please explain to me why these people should be treated with kid gloves? They want to be in show business? Well, this is pretty much the way it works. Deal with it and adapt and you might make it. If not, too bad for you. That said, a half hour results show is more than enough. I'm such a slut for the blues.   Top

Tahj 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 03-02-05, 03:38 PM (EST) 33. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." Could someone please explain to me why these people should be treated with kid gloves? They want to be in show business? Well, this is pretty much the way it works. Deal with it and adapt and you might make it. If not, too bad for you. Kid gloves? Who said that? They've all taken criticism, some harsh, and gone through the elimination process. There's been no kid glove treatment that I've seen. Last week's hijink/antics were deplorable. It was insulting, unnecessary, and cheap. What's next--spitting on them? These kids are professionals or aspiring to be such. Treat them in an honorable way. This isn't the WWF. Moves courtesy of Syren   Top

geg6 14941 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-03-05, 08:48 AM (EST) 34. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." Well, I reserve my right to respectfully disagree. First point: These people are most definitely NOT professionals. If they were, they would not be on the show. They are basically recruits in boot camp for the entertainment industry. Boot camp isn't supposed to be nice. Second point: I never said they were currently being treated with kid gloves. I am saying that, contrary to the point of view of most posters on this thread, they shouldn't be treated with kid gloves. If they were treated with sweetness and light, they would be getting a completely unrealistic view of what the entertainment industry is like. People aren't nice in this industry. Get used to it. Third point: Many people, including me, watch this show specifically because of the possibility of someone making an idiot of themselves, for the shock of the contestants when they find out they are not as great as they think they are, and for Simon to make mincemeat out of them. I would not watch if this was not the case. I don't want anyone being nice to them more than necessary and, besides, that's Paula's job anyway. As I have said before, you've gotta be cruel to be kind. I'm such a slut for the blues.   Top

LakerLuv 151 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 03-03-05, 11:39 AM (EST) 35. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." >Well, I reserve my right to >respectfully disagree. > >First point: These people are most >definitely NOT professionals. If >they were, they would not >be on the show. >They are basically recruits in >boot camp for the entertainment >industry. Boot camp isn't >supposed to be nice. > >Second point: I never said they >were currently being treated with >kid gloves. I am >saying that, contrary to the >point of view of most >posters on this thread, they >shouldn't be treated with kid >gloves. If they were >treated with sweetness and light, >they would be getting a >completely unrealistic view of what >the entertainment industry is like. > People aren't nice in >this industry. Get used >to it. > >Third point: Many people, including me, >watch this show specifically because >of the possibility of someone >making an idiot of themselves, >for the shock of the >contestants when they find out >they are not as great >as they think they are, >and for Simon to make >mincemeat out of them. >I would not watch if >this was not the case. > I don't want anyone >being nice to them more >than necessary and, besides, that's >Paula's job anyway. > >As I have said before, you've >gotta be cruel to be >kind. > > >I'm such a slut for the >blues. I think you make very good points. Let's be honest. There's a reason why American Idol is so popular and all it's clones have gone by the wayside. The new Star Search did not make it and we have no clue who the winners are from that show. American Idol works because it has the guts and the glory in one show. Paula is nice to people because she knows she was the "it" girl of her day. Paula knows that had there been an American Idol in the 80's, she would have been voted off because she does not have good vocals. She was a pop princess that capitalized on her 15 minutes of fame. Randy and Simon, on the other hand have worked in the trenches of the music business. They know how hard it is to get the ear of anyone with some power and they know how hard it is to sustain any momemtum in the industry. Simon especially knows that record executives are not sweet and cuddly with their artists (ask Prince, ask Mariah Carey, ask any artist who have felt screwed by their record company)because it's a business first. Simon has said he was treated the same way when he started out and it's because he wasn't coddled that he made it big. I think Delta Burke talked about how, when she put on all that weight back in her "Designing Women" days, how some TV execs talked about how fat she was right in her face! They didn't surgar coat anything. So humiliation is a part of the industry. I don't tune in for the humiliation on American Idol but I certainly expect it.   Top

Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-03-05, 01:36 PM (EST) 37. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." Have to disagree here. Or maybe not, cause you don’t really seem to be speaking to the issues that people are concerned about. The results show, as presented the first week, was needlessly cruel. It was vicious for no reason other than to be vicious. There’s a big difference in saying “Judd, you’re out” and saying “Judd, you were on the firing line previously, you can relax now” and then five seconds later saying “By the way, Judd, you’re out”.   Top

geg6 14941 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-03-05, 02:06 PM (EST) 38. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." Maybe I haven't said it clearly enough, but I do think I am addressing the issue. The idea that there is some kind of emotional cruelty going on here because of what happened to Judd or whomever is ridiculous in my opinion. Yes, rejection svcks. Yes, rejection svcks even more when you are totally not prepared for it. And the svckation factor goes up exponentially when you are unexpectedly rejected in front of millions of people. But I'm pretty sure that none of them will die from it and that it will better prepare them for the hard cruel world they will face if they continue to pursue a career in Hollywood. And I haven't even begun to factor in the fact that they are DAWs on a reality TV show. They chose this path, live with it. They get no sympathy from me and, in fact, I found it to be quite entertaining. I'm such a slut for the blues. You're making me feel so mean that I'm beginning to wonder if I'm becoming some sort of Shakes (or at least bacon) in disguise.   Top

Tahj 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 03-03-05, 02:17 PM (EST) 39. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." No geg you're not mean. The show is pandering for dramatic effect and ratings. It is unnecessarily exploitative. Where do you draw the line on standards of decency? The contestants have a right to be treated decently. Moves courtesy of Syren   Top

geg6 14941 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-03-05, 02:26 PM (EST) 40. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." Of course they're pandering. That's what reality TV does best, especially on FOX. And these people chose to be exploited, so what right does anyone have to complain about the degree to which they are exploited? As for decency, no one has been tortured, maimed, raped, killed, or even forced to be naked. Anything not in one of those categories pretty much falls under "decent" for me. I'm such a slut for the blues.   Top

Tahj 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 03-03-05, 02:38 PM (EST) 41. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." I think "decently" means being treated with courtesy and respect. We have different definitions. It bothers me the way AI and other shows sink to such low levels of poor taste. The word schaenfreude has been used as a glorification of the whole process. Like it's a good thing. It's not. It's shameful and reflects poorly on who we are as a society, IMO. Moves courtesy of Syren   Top

geg6 14941 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-03-05, 02:53 PM (EST) 42. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." No, we don't really have different definitions of decency. I just apply it differently in cases of reality TV. If someone willingly signs up for something in which there is a high probability of being publicly humiliated, then the fact that they are then subsequently humiliated more than they expected is inconsequential. They CHOSE to do it with their eyes wide open. Now, if you or I were publicly humiliated without having signed up for it, I'd be outraged. And, personally, reality TV is the least of our societal poisons. As I said before, no one is being raped, murdered, tortured, etc. for audience enjoyment. If a little public embarassment is a societal risk, then most dramatic television and movies or computer and video games are going to bring about the fall of civilization. I'm such a slut for the blues.   Top

Tahj 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 03-03-05, 03:04 PM (EST) 43. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." Again, it goes back to standards of decency for me. It's the slow erosion of those standards that concern me. Little by little we become more hardened and less compassionate, more willing to condemn than to forgive and understand. We lower our standards little by little each time we're willing to engage in such behavior publicly or privately. We demean ourselves as we demean them by supporting it. So are you saying that as long as no one is raped, tortured etc., then any behavior that falls outside those categories is OK? Comparing less harsh levels of behavior to the worst extremes is a way of validating behavior as it gets worse little by little, by saying "at least it hasn't gotten that bad yet." So again I ask, where do we draw line? Moves courtesy of Syren   Top

nailbone 27263 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-03-05, 03:20 PM (EST) 44. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." So again I ask, where do we draw line? Actually, if I may, I think what geggy is saying is that the line is different for these folks, and others on reality shows, than for you and me because they signed up for this stuff knowing that they probably were gonna get ragged. So it shouldn't be a surprise to any of them. Well, 'cept the really delusional ones. New from Sigs by Syren!! Keep lookin' up, cuz that's where it all is. o-   Top

Tahj 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 03-03-05, 03:24 PM (EST) 45. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." I don't dispute that. They certainly knew what to expect from watching previous seasons. But what happened last week was different. Should they expect to be treated any way the show deems fit to treat them? Is it to become just an open-ended bashfest? Because they signed up they have to accept any treatment, no matter how bad? Moves courtesy of Syren   Top

nailbone 27263 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-03-05, 03:35 PM (EST) 47. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." LAST EDITED ON 03-03-05 AT 03:35 PM (EST) Yep. Uh-huh. Yeppers. New from Sigs by Syren!! Keep lookin' up, cuz that's where it all is. o- It was better last night, though.   Top

Tahj 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 03-03-05, 03:40 PM (EST) 48. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." Nope. Nein. Nyet! Moves courtesy of Syren Great, now I feel like a commercial for Capital One.   Top

LakerLuv 151 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 03-04-05, 06:20 PM (EST) 53. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." >I don't dispute that. They >certainly knew what to expect >from watching previous seasons. >But what happened last week >was different. Should they >expect to be treated any >way the show deems fit >to treat them? Is >it to become just an >open-ended bashfest? Because they >signed up they have to >accept any treatment, no matter >how bad? > > >Moves courtesy of >Syren Yeah. They signed up for the guts and the glory. They sign away thier rights to a lot of different things for the chance at fame. As geg said, this is Fox TV, the network that brought us "Who Wants To Marry A Millioniare" and "My Big Fat Obnoxious Boss/Fiance". I don't expect decency from Fox and the people lining up to be the next Kelly, Ruben or Fantasia shouldn't expect it either.   Top

geg6 14941 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-03-05, 03:24 PM (EST) 46. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." *smooches* I'm such a slut for the blues.   Top

Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-03-05, 03:52 PM (EST) 49. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." In general, I agree with everything you said. In general. But that’s not what happened here. What happened here is that someone was told, in effect, “You’re safe” only to be told a few seconds later “You’re gone”. That’s not humiliating someone based on their performance. That’s not humiliating someone based on their shock. That’s an attempt to humiliate someone based on their pain. And that’s not just mean, that’s cruel and sick, and not in the good kind of cruel and sick way. Just because someone chooses to be on a reality tv show doesn’t mean that they sacrifice all rights and expectations to at least a basic level of decent treatment. Judd handled it well. To me, it was the only thing he handled well in his brief time on the show. He didn’t complain, he didn’t gripe, he wasn’t sobbing – he just said he did the best he could and that he had no regrets. He wasn’t some DAW who was clueless about his talent level – he obviously knew he wasn’t in the top flight of men.   Top

geg6 14941 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-03-05, 04:24 PM (EST) 50. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." We can certainly agree to disagree. I didn't see it the way you and a lot of other people did. I didn't see it as cruel at all. I just saw it as part of the game/show. There is certainly a lot more cruelty, indecency, and lack of respect for others on the networks and cable every night. I can't get real excited over a rejected singer. That said, you are right in that Judd took it very well. No sour grapes like the idiot last night whining and moaning about not having enough camera time. I'm such a slut for the blues.   Top

frisky 11695 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-03-05, 04:32 PM (EST) 51. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." I'm on your side, not just because we fur-bearers have to stick together, and not just because I'm a sucker for a hairy back. I don't see AI as "reality TV". I don't mind watching people get humiliated on BB. I feel sorry for them in a way, but I agree with geg that they know darn well that they are leaving their dignity at the door. AI is a talent show. If you're good, you stay. If you aren't, you go. People who sign up for a talent show know that those are the stakes. What happened last week was AI's attempt at throwing in TV's version of "reality". It failed. As The Blog Turns.   Top

TeamJoisey 3558 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 03-03-05, 05:09 PM (EST) 52. "RE: Changing The Elimination Process - If You Can't Stand The Heat....." Can I agree with you both? What happened to Judd was unnecessary, malicious cruelty. That viciousness made jaws drop across the country. We'll be talking about it all season. It was the best part of the show. These reality show contestants need a reality check!   Top

johnnycasino1 36 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 03-05-05, 06:18 PM (EST) 54. "Should the losers be allowed to sing?" Except for this last week, the "losers" on the elimination episode have had the opportunity to sing again. As I mentioned on the different thread for poor Joe, I'm mixed about this. While I think it's an opportunity for the loser to get some more television exposure, do we really want to hear the horrible song they sang the night before? I would rather see a montage of that person's memorable moments rather than a repeat of their poor performance. I'm interested in other people's thoughts. Do we really want to see them sing again? Is it like watching a train wreck and we are interested in knowing "Was it really that bad?". Thanks!   Top

okaychatt 2810 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 03-06-05, 07:55 PM (EST) 55. "RE: Should the losers be allowed to sing?" I always thought it was a salve to the performer's ego to be allowed to sing one more time. That, as well as a balm to the departee's fans. I don't care whether they sing one more time or not. Everyone is entitled to my opinion.   Top

seahorse 14337 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-06-05, 08:06 PM (EST) 56. "RE: Should the losers be allowed to sing?" At least let them pick which of their songs they get to sing. Handcrafted by RollDdice   Top

badger 1273 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson" 03-06-05, 08:28 PM (EST) 57. "RE: Should the losers be allowed to sing?" really? i've always thought they should do a paula abdul song -- "cold hearted snake" or something.   Top

Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-07-05, 11:49 AM (EST) 58. "RE: Should the losers be allowed to sing?" I think it should be their choice, but I understand it's tough to plan the length of the show around that. It's seemed in the past that some of them have given their best performance right after they get eliminated - they no longer have any pressure on them, and they can sing without that weight.   Top

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