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"Jeff V.'s Saboteur: Not Nick, so Who?"
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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04-06-01, 03:18 AM (EST)
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"Jeff V.'s Saboteur: Not Nick, so Who?"
Jeff said the person working to set him up might soon become a major player.

I figured it was ghostly Nick, but it became apparent last week that Nick wasn't playing any serious strategy nor going on to any great revelations, so if Jeff wasn't pulling our leg, it's Lis or Rodger.

I seriously doubt Lis was thinking that strategically from Day 1. Rodger, on the other hand, was winning Lis over with a heart-shaped rock. Rodger was the old guy the team might well decide to vote off due to not swimming/weakness, and he knew that going in, so he must have been thinking hard from the beginning about how to stay in the game.

If so, does anyone think he has a trick up his sleeve that would fulfill Jeff's prediction?

(This is my parting ode to Nick, copied from my vote earlier.)

NICK

We hoped for some wiles from a mole full of tricks
You seemed under the radar; but no, you were sick;
Burnett gets the points for sneaky and slick
Leading us on til they snuffed out your wick;
So farewell, for this week you are everyone's pick.

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: Jeff V.'s Saboteur: Not Nick, s... SurvivinDawg 04-06-01 1
 RE: Kucha Traitor ==Rodger Dalton 04-06-01 2
   RE: Kucha Traitor ==Rodger Conspiracy Jim 04-06-01 3
       RE: Kucha Traitor ==Rodger Loree 04-06-01 4
           RE: Kucha Traitor ==Rodger dangerkitty 04-06-01 5
               RE: Kucha Traitor ==Rodger Outfrontgirl 04-06-01 6
                   RE: Kucha Traitor ==Rodger Dalton 04-07-01 7
                       RE: Kucha Traitor ==Rodger SurvivinDawg 04-07-01 8
                           Another thing about Rodger... ACPS65 04-07-01 9
                               RE: Another thing about Rodger... hennessy 04-07-01 10
                                   RE: Another thing about Rodger... Kokoro 04-08-01 12
 RE: Jeff V.'s Saboteur: Not Nick, s... Mitrelleum 04-08-01 11
   RE: Jeff V.'s Saboteur: Not Nick, s... Outfrontgirl 04-08-01 13
       RE: Jeff V.'s Saboteur: Not Nick, s... Loree 04-08-01 14
       RE: Rodger planned Jeff V.s Boot...... Dalton 04-08-01 15
           RE: Rodger planned Jeff V.s Boot...... Kokoro 04-08-01 16

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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
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04-06-01, 06:23 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: Jeff V.'s Saboteur: Not Nick, so Who?"
Don't be too quick to dismiss Nick's role. The fact that he voted for Keith (his reasons given at TC notwithstanding) lit a little light bulb in my head.

Nick probably knew he was a goner, but we've suspected in the past that either he was a mole or had done some discussing with Colby at the first individual IC on the poles (that Keith won). Now Nick votes for the ONE GUY who might eventually have enough votes to "compete" with Colby in a tiebreaker. Hmmmmmmm....

For all we know, Nick might become a strong jury member and persuade others with his "legal" arguments.

*** Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

Save the drama for yo mama, and SPOIL!

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Dalton 1271 desperate attention whore postings
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04-06-01, 02:15 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Kucha Traitor ==Rodger"
I started a thread on BASHERS Forum just after
Jeff was booted about this topic. (Please visit).

But basically Jeff V. said in 3 diff. int. that
one Kucha person had seen to it that BOTH Debb
and Kimmi voted against Jeff. Thus when it came
down to it...those two Debb/Kimmi votes got him
kicked out. We decided that the ONLY Kucha
KIMMI would have listened to and taken advise to
really toss her vote toward Jeff---would be sweet,
ole Rodger (who is trustworthy).

Thusly, if Rodger had a plan for winning it included
getting rid of Debb, Mike, Kimmi, Jeff and Alicia....
so far he's doing pretty darn good!!!

Getting rid of Nick was just a "gimme" for Rodger/Liz.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And I do agree with the theories stated that shortly
after the merger Nick (K) and Colby (O) came to "a
gentlemen's understanding" about certain things.
Surely IC's were discussed but probably not "voting".
When they were sitting on the beach talking while others
stood on poles for ten hours....an early truce/friendship
seemed apparant to me. Then Nick got sick/weak...Colby
couldn't help that, sigh, so bye bye, but no hard feelings
buddy. I don't think Nick resents Colby's vote against him
but Nick obviously dislikes Keith.

Dalton

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Conspiracy Jim 198 desperate attention whore postings
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04-06-01, 03:12 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: Kucha Traitor ==Rodger"
Now I disagree. I fell that it is plainly Liz that is "the mole". She is the one that convinced Tina and Kieth not to vote her or Roger off, good for her. We even saw two episodes ago that Tina and Liz were talking and Tina stated that Liz or Roger had to go as it made the most sense from their standpoint. Yet in the end it was Jerri, at the persistance or Tina and Kieth, to getting the boot. Liz and Roger are now in a position to win the whole damn thing. Would we have thought that two or three weeks ago, let alone one... no way!!! Liz is playing this game for keeps and I think in the end it just might pay off, though Roger may be the one reaping the benefits of Liz's efforts.

Conspiracy Jim
"Ya, sure we went to the moon"!!!

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Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings
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04-06-01, 03:51 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Kucha Traitor ==Rodger"
I think Rodger is very clever. He is playing the ol' grandpa role. He lets Liz do all the work in running around getting Tina and Keith on their side. Then he is nice and fishes with them. He makes himself handy and helpful but he isn't becoming a target for scheming like Liz maybe is. Rodger is playing the part of not being as smart as he really is.
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dangerkitty 1913 desperate attention whore postings
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04-06-01, 08:44 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Kucha Traitor ==Rodger"
He mentioned that himself in the Outtake show, something about being percieved as a dumb old farmer guy, but he's here to win just like anyone else.

dk

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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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04-06-01, 10:42 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: Kucha Traitor ==Rodger"
Thank you Dalton for posting Jeff's remarks; those were exactly the ones I had in mind when I started the thread.

I agree with those who think Rodger's playing up the dumb thing.
His bio lists one of his former jobes as CEO of a bank for 10 years. That's a job that requires you to be very pleasant and earn good will, but always have an eye out for the bottom line and never trust anyone too much. Also, he's only 53.

The reason that I don't think it's Lis is because we've seen Lis get tough as the pressure increased, but I don't think she came in there on Day 1 worried about being an early bootee; Rodger, on the other hand had good cause, as I said above. The sneaky Kucha player started this strategy before the very first vote.

I agree Kimmi would listen to Rodger or Mike, and it wasn't Mike.
Anyway, might Jeff's remark mean that Rodger's not going to go lightly into that good night? Not the sitting duck he seems?
He has a great strategy now because he not only fishes but no one thinks it's important to toss him off because he's never won a challenge.

Also, Jerri says she would have liked to get to know him better but didn't have a chance.

Lastly, this probably belongs in a different thread, but I find it very interesting that we were not shown what Lis and Rodger had to say when they voted for Amber; we only got shown them holding up the votes. That leads me to believe they gave reasons Burnett doesn't yet want us to know--something about strategy.

Amber knows who voted for her, because she knows the 4 O's voted for Nick. Lis and Rodger wanted Nick to go, and probably knew he had the 4 votes necessary, so they could use theirs strategically (to balance out Lis' 2). By voting for Amber though, they were hardly encouraging her to come on over to Kucha, do you think? So maybe Tina and Keith are ready to ally with L/R and do a Colby, them Amber axe, and maybe L/R learned that at some point in the last episode we weren't shown.
(Because Lis and Rodger were sweating before in case Nick got immunity, I think they felt threatened, but something may have shifted at the end.)

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Dalton 1271 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-01, 01:13 AM (EST)
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7. "RE: Kucha Traitor ==Rodger"
Out Front Girl and Right! Gosh, I agree with everything
you said in the previous post.

Back in the Kucha early days I thought Rodger "the Codger"
was pretty darn smart and he seemed to view Michael as the
main competition. Then he turned it somehow to make Mike
"leader" which, as we now know, drove Mike psycho with
blood lust and then he fell face down into the fire.

Rodger took up praying for Kucha at that point...these
are signs of a man with a plan...hehehe.

Obviously LizLiz would rather take Rodger and join Tina
(who has Keith owing her). She has pushed Tina for
some sign of friendship every episode since the merge.
Liz seems to think that if she can just get
to the final two with an Ogakor she can win on
personality (gag).

About "things shifting at the end"...I thought host Jeff
tried to scare all of them at the TC. Going on and on
about the power is/has shifted to (Horrors: It's Alicia
and Jerri!!) THE JURY.
Amber, Liz and Nick all looked like they were facing
a firing squad!!!

E/R making sure Lamber had two votes against was smart and
who knew that Amber was going to be a good girl and stay
with the program....why the cowboy knew!!!

Dalton

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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-01, 03:57 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Kucha Traitor ==Rodger"
>About "things shifting at the end"...I
>thought host Jeff
>tried to scare all of them
>at the TC. Going
>on and on
>about the power is/has shifted to
>(Horrors: It's Alicia
>and Jerri!!) THE JURY.
>Amber, Liz and Nick all looked
>like they were facing
>a firing squad!!!

I agree with your comments about JP and the jury. If JP tells us again that the power is shifting to the jury, I'll jump through the screen and beat the $#!+ out of JP!!! Okay, I won't, but what JP says is B.S. (Bogus Stuff): The POWER is exactly where Rich Hatch says it is... surviving to the end. If you ain'ts on the final twos, ye ain'ts goings to wins ze prize!

Actually, the true, true POWER is in making it to the Final Three then winning Final Immunity. Now THERE is the POWER....

*** Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

"I've never been bored a day in my life. Only boring people get bored." -- Jerri Manthey

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ACPS65 240 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-01, 04:41 PM (EST)
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9. "Another thing about Rodger..."
If you remember, when Kimmi was voted out, she and Rodger and I believe Elisabeth or Michael were speaking of voting out Alicia. Then Kimmi voted out Jeff. I don't think Jeff told Kimmi to vote for him. And I doubt Alicia told Kimmi to vote for him. However Rodger was making comments abour relieving tension if Alicia were gone.
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hennessy 3 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-01, 11:31 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Another thing about Rodger..."
i still don't understand what this supposed "mole" stood to gain from throwing votes jeff's way - it's like the mole was sabatoging his team's chances of surviving the merge - it did not bode well for the kuchas, after all. I could see throwing votes the was of someone you want to vote off your tribe eventually before the merger, which may have been the plan had they lost an immunity challenge (there were none after kimmi's)....but to throw votes towards someone to make them a target so your whole tribe will be wiped out?? the only thing that i can think of that would make this a good idea was if...say, tina approached rodger during some IC in the beginning and made a deal with him to throw votes towards one person so Ogakor could have the advantage, with the promise that Tina would carry along rodg til the final 4......likely?....i think not. So i guess i'm not seeing it - why would there be a mole??
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Kokoro 3899 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-01, 02:27 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: Another thing about Rodger..."
The reason this is discussed to death all the time is because when Jeff got kicked, he said in his interviews that there was a double agent inside Kucha and supposedly "Things are going to get very interesting" as this is revealed....but you're right; logic dictates that nothing this big is likely to happen at this point.

Ooooh watch out everyone there's a "crack" in the alliance. Yeah, maybe; If crack was slang for millionaire.


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Mitrelleum 257 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-01, 02:16 AM (EST)
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11. "RE: Jeff V.'s Saboteur: Not Nick, so Who?"

Does anyone remember in Ep. 1?
Before the scene of Alicia and Jeff's first convo about Debb's comments towards Jeff's wanting to leave, there was a scene between Debb and Rodger.
Debb asked Rodger if he were to vote, who would he vote for?
Rodger lied to her and said "Jeff".

Could he also have said this to Kimmi?
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-01, 03:08 AM (EST)
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13. "RE: Jeff V.'s Saboteur: Not Nick, so Who?"
For the sake of accuracy, Jeff did not say there was a double agent, at least not in the E.Show interview I saw. He said someone in Kucha (so, not Tina) was doing a bit of work against him, by setting him up to have 2 votes against him (telling Debb and Kimmi that others were voting Jeff when in fact everyone else was voting for them), and he knows exactly who it was now (not at the time). There was no suggestion the person was trying to sabotage Kucha as a tribe. The clear inference is that there was someone who wanted Jeff to have 2 votes in case Kucha went to TC and there was a tied vote.

As I said above, I now think it was Rodger.

Why is it of any interest? Not because of a double agent role, but because Jeff said he couldn't say who it was because that person might well become a major player in the coming episodes.
Now at the time Jeff said that most of us thought all the remaining Kucha were dead meat, but 2 are alive and kicking, and if Jeff was not leading us on, then that person will do something to qualify as a major player.

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Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-01, 12:21 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Jeff V.'s Saboteur: Not Nick, so Who?"
I also think Jerri being booted was part of the "surprise" that both Jeff & Alicia said was coming up. The "interesting part" might just be that an Ogakor was booted before the last Kuchas. And Jeff could be a little upset with who was working behind his back which did end up getting him kicked off. I think it was Rodger. But at this point I think Liz will last longer than Rodger in the game.
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Dalton 1271 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-01, 01:58 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: Rodger planned Jeff V.s Boot...."
by quietly making sure both Debb and Kimmi voted against him.
Rodgers "plan" from Day-1 was get rid of Mike and Jeff. OK??

Thanks Outfrontgirl for restating our conclusions. I will
add a couple of points about Rodger, hopefully not redundant:

1. Of the Kucha left in the game---there is only ONE
MALE, Rodger.

2. Of the Kucha males left to serve on THE JURY---there is
only ONE, Nick. And Nick likes Rodger.

3. Rodger is one of only 3 people left---from the entire
starting 16 contestants.....who came there to do one thing:
win the blasted million bucks!!!

That is the way I view Rodger. While I hope Rodger
doesn't win; I can't help admiring how much he has
accomplished thus far (with so little effort, sigh!).

Dalton

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Kokoro 3899 desperate attention whore postings
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04-08-01, 03:02 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: Rodger planned Jeff V.s Boot...."
<<3. Rodger is one of only 3 people left---from the entire
starting 16 contestants.....who came there to do one thing:
win the blasted million bucks!!!>>

Have to disagree there Dalton....no matter how PC anyone makes themselves sound, the one reason, at the top of the list ahead of everything else is to win the million. ~None~ of them - not a single one - would have even tried out for the show if they didn't think they had a very good chance of winning....not even Debb.

Ooooh watch out everyone there's a "crack" in the alliance. Yeah, maybe; If crack was slang for millionaire.


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