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"What is this about weight"
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Lasann 3616 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge"

02-07-05, 08:41 AM (EST)
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"What is this about weight"
I don't know about any of you but I am angry that Simon can use a person's weight to disqualify them. Let's make a list of "extraordinary" and "unmatched" talent who don't meet the anerexia (sp) guidelines:

1. Aretha
2. Luther Vandross(who Ruben thinks he is - but he isn't! There's only one Luther.)

My mind is blank on others. Let's hear the names!



Ruben is an example. Can only men be large and win? WTF!

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: What is this about weight geekboy 02-07-05 1
   RE: What is this about weight ginger 02-07-05 2
       RE: What is this about weight BriarRosie 02-07-05 3
           RE: What is this about weight SingerJennifermail 02-07-05 4
               RE: What is this about weight consise10 02-08-05 6
                   RE: What is this about weight seahorse 02-08-05 7
       RE: What is this about weight seahorse 02-07-05 5
           Oddly, when ugly or fat guys are ri... DontGetMeStarted 02-08-05 12
 RE: What is this about weight callalilly3000 02-08-05 8
   RE: What is this about weight Roo 02-08-05 9
       RE: What is this about weight callalilly3000 02-08-05 10
           RE: What is this about weight Roo 02-08-05 11
           RE: What is this about weight usuallylurks 02-09-05 17
               RE:Simon wanted a black afroamerica... consise10 02-09-05 18
                   RE:Simon wanted a black afroamerica... ltarizona 02-14-05 32
                       RE:Simon wanted a black afroamerica... Purrl 02-16-05 35
                   RE:Simon wanted a black afroamerica... LakerLuv 02-16-05 36
                   well if so he should have picked a ... DontGetMeStarted 02-19-05 38
               RE: What is this about weight Kimmyb 02-16-05 37
       RE: What is this about weight lyrker 02-13-05 28
   That was annoying. Esp. since Rube... DontGetMeStarted 02-08-05 13
 RE: What is this about weight aliciabbrown 02-08-05 14
 RE: What is this about weight strid333 02-08-05 15
   RE: What is this about weight consise10 02-08-05 16
       RE: What is this about weight Flairmarq 02-09-05 19
           RE: What is this about weight consise10 02-10-05 20
               RE: What is this about weight Flairmarq 02-10-05 21
                   RE: What is this about weight consise10 02-10-05 22
       RE: What is this about weight strid333 02-10-05 23
           RE: What is this about weight consise10 02-11-05 24
               RE: What is this about weight strid333 02-13-05 27
                   RE: What is this about weight ltarizona 02-14-05 30
 RE: What is this about weight motormouth 02-13-05 25
   RE: What is this about weight consise10 02-13-05 26
       RE: What is this about weight motormouth 02-14-05 29
           RE: What is this about weight ltarizona 02-14-05 31
               RE: What is this about weight consise10 02-14-05 33
               RE: What is this about weight opinionated 02-16-05 34
                   RE: What is this about weight consise10 02-19-05 39

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geekboy 1783 desperate attention whore postings
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02-07-05, 10:28 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: What is this about weight"
Refresh my ailing memory - but did Simon ever comment on Ruben's weight in Season II? all i can remember is showers of praise.

geekboy

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ginger 22511 desperate attention whore postings
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02-07-05, 05:23 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: What is this about weight"
No, no he didn't. And when they rejected that woman who sang something from "My Fair Lady" and he started cutting her down because of her weight we were chanting "Roooooooooooooben! Rooooooooooooooooben!" Guess it's okay to be fat if you are a guy.



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BriarRosie 990 desperate attention whore postings
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02-07-05, 06:21 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: What is this about weight"
I made a similar comment about this in the other AI forum here.

I agree with your views.

Lori


Survivor: Adventurers Club
Outdrink, Outlaugh, Outkungaloosh!

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SingerJennifermail 4 desperate attention whore postings
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02-07-05, 07:09 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: What is this about weight"
I think it's sad that "Image" has to be THAT important as to whether you can make it or not. It should just be about whether or not you have a good voice. Too bad that isn't true though.

Jennifer Martin
http://www.jennifermartinsings.com

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consise10 399 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host"

02-08-05, 00:07 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: What is this about weight"
Yes lassann, I thank you for beginning this thread because it is a hugely contentious issue.I
Many of you already would know that I am from Australia.In our country it is reported that we have the highest growing number of juvenile diabetes.Being overweight poses serious life health problems.We all know the drill, I`m sure.
Getting back to the topic of Male or Female 'fat' idol,(and sorry for being so crude in my use of words).Over here we have enjoyed two seasons of the idol phenomena.In the last season,Australian Idol 2 a young 16 year old 'fat' female won it.I voted at least 40 times before the finale as an indication of the overwhelming support for her.
I believe we as a nation, fought the stereotypical image of glamour god becoming Idol.Her runner up, Anthony Callea ,was a good looking, young skinny guy,full of fashion and charm.Australia voted for Casey.
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seahorse 14337 desperate attention whore postings
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02-08-05, 00:11 AM (EST)
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7. "RE: What is this about weight"
I say vote for the best.
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seahorse 14337 desperate attention whore postings
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02-07-05, 11:13 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: What is this about weight"
Unfortunately you are right, a guy can get away with not having looks, a girl has a much greater problem.


Handcrafted by RollDdice

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DontGetMeStarted 880 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"

02-08-05, 03:19 PM (EST)
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12. "Oddly, when ugly or fat guys are rich they 'become cute'"
females somehow are not afforded this transformation. I don't know why ?? Does anyone 'really' think that guy on the OC is cute?
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callalilly3000 693 desperate attention whore postings
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02-08-05, 09:09 AM (EST)
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8. "RE: What is this about weight"

It is very sad how "image" plays such an important part in this contest. Weight, should not be a factor, but it is. Mostly to women. I remember AI two, Simon never said a word to Ruben about his weight, but mentioned it frequently to Kim L.




Slice and Dice Shop 2004

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Roo 705 desperate attention whore postings
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02-08-05, 09:48 AM (EST)
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9. "RE: What is this about weight"
The issue of weight should matter, be it male or female, if it affects the ability to perform. Kim, while being a little overweight, looked great on stage. Ruben, on the other hand, looked like he was ready to collapse by the end of his songs, sweating like crazy.


Handcrafted by RollDdice

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callalilly3000 693 desperate attention whore postings
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02-08-05, 11:39 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: What is this about weight"
I agree that weight, as a health issue is important.

Simon is not telling these overweight individuals that they need to loose weight for their health, he is stating that their stage presence looks bad, and that is NOT the image he wants the winner of AI to be.

If he was concerned about their health, he would have told Ruben numerous times to loose weight, but he didn't. He even told Josh Gracin that he needed to loose weight. Josh was a Marine and I am sure in pretty good health, so that only means that Simon was refering to his stage presence.

Why he never said anything to Ruben, is unclear to me. Pehaps he was so sure that Ruben would win, he didn't bother to mention his weight.




Slice and Dice Shop 2004

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Roo 705 desperate attention whore postings
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02-08-05, 02:29 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: What is this about weight"
Oh, I know it's all about the image. My point is that they should be equally judgemental of heavy males if it's going to impede their ability to put on a decent show.


Handcrafted by RollDdice

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usuallylurks 9 desperate attention whore postings
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02-09-05, 00:28 AM (EST)
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17. "RE: What is this about weight"
This brings up the pain of that season. Simon continually trashed everyone (including Clay) except Rueben. It was just so obvious that Rueben was his picked golden boy (although I could never figure out why) and even though he weighed 350 pounds and sweated like a pig everytime he moved, Simon never said a word.

This season there are quite a few larger guys. I'm sure Simon did not tell them they weren't idol material. I did hear him say that to some of the females. Drives me crazy. If you have a criteria "idol material" make it apply to everyone.

Clay should have won. I hold grudges a long time.

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consise10 399 desperate attention whore postings
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02-09-05, 05:12 AM (EST)
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18. "RE:Simon wanted a black afroamerican male-hence Reuben"
I hear what you say usuallylurks,about Simons obsession with Reuben-and Clay should have won.Infact I`ve read many peoples posts praising and supporting Clay.

Let me put the following Idea to you,and that is that Simon wanted a 'black' Afro American male Idol during that season,at any cost. What do you and others think ?

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ltarizona 4 desperate attention whore postings
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02-14-05, 03:52 AM (EST)
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32. "RE:Simon wanted a black afroamerican male-hence Reuben"
look at record sales. clay beat reuben and kelly. so in the end clay has won.
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Purrl 48 desperate attention whore postings
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02-16-05, 03:16 PM (EST)
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35. "RE:Simon wanted a black afroamerican male-hence Reuben"

I remember last Idol they...they being Ryan, Simon, Paula and Randy...kept telling us, the audience, that it was about TALENT! TAL-LENT!!!

They are very hypocritical and one sided about "weight" issues, especially Simon. Randy has lost weight, but he still not a small guy and that doesn't stop him from being successful with his image. Reuben was big, but his voice was bigger. And the girl in the final 3 with Reuben and Clay, Kimberly Locke...I think...wasn't skinny but she was talented, pretty and likable.

I personally thought in the latest AI, the large girl with glasses and the long curly hair had the best voice of anyone I heard on the audition shows that I got to watch. I'm rooting for her!

Note to Simon: even the weightiest contestant seems skinny beside your fat-headed ego you exhibit sometimes and your predjudices!

Putting health issues aside, because there are health issues with both obesity and skinniness - we have the mass media fed obsession with pretty=stick figures, talent=thin. Talent transcends looks. And pretty really is just skin deep.

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LakerLuv 151 desperate attention whore postings
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02-16-05, 06:02 PM (EST)
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36. "RE:Simon wanted a black afroamerican male-hence Reuben"
LAST EDITED ON 02-16-05 AT 06:04 PM (EST)

>I hear what you say usuallylurks,about
>Simons obsession with Reuben-and Clay
>should have won.Infact I`ve read
>many peoples posts praising and
>supporting Clay.
>
>Let me put the following Idea
>to you,and that is that
>Simon wanted a 'black' Afro
>American male Idol during that
>season,at any cost. What do
>you and others think ?
>


Why would Simon specifically want a "black" American Idol? What would be his motivation and how would it benefit Simon or American Idol? I thnk Simon liked Reuben from day 1 and wanted him to win and it had nothing to do with race.

Clay lost because more people voted for Reuben, thus making him (Reuben)the winner. Period. Clay sells more records because his appeal is the broader pop market. Reuben's market is the niche market,R&B, which is smaller than pop. Reuben would have to have a pop crossover hit like Usher has had, in order to beat Clay. I'm a huge R&B fan and listen primarily to Urban radio stations. I have never heard Clay Aikens songs on any radio station I listen to. Why? Because it's not Clay's market. In fact, since the end of American Idol 2, I have never heard Clay sing because I'm not that into his style of music. Clay has a spectacular voice, but I'm not a fan of his style of music. If Reuben was marketed to a broader audience, he might have sold more records. I have both of Reuben's CDs. I couldn't tell you the name of Clay's hits.

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DontGetMeStarted 880 desperate attention whore postings
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02-19-05, 04:55 PM (EST)
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38. "well if so he should have picked a good backup"
choice as well.

Maybe it was more like the movie Trading Places and he was showing off by weilding his powers ....hyp-mo-tising the voters....

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Kimmyb 14 desperate attention whore postings
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02-16-05, 06:48 PM (EST)
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37. "RE: What is this about weight"
"Clay should have won. I hold grudges a long time"

AGREE TOTALLY.

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lyrker 203 desperate attention whore postings
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02-13-05, 11:45 PM (EST)
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28. "RE: What is this about weight"
Ruben, on the other hand, looked like he was ready to collapse by the end of his songs, sweating like crazy.

Amen! Every time I saw him perform I got worried he was going to have a heart attack. Still do. That has to be real hard on his system. o_o*

***
"Live every day as if it were your last, because one of these days, it will be."
- Jeremy Schwartz

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DontGetMeStarted 880 desperate attention whore postings
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02-08-05, 03:21 PM (EST)
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13. "That was annoying. Esp. since Rubens weight was a "
health issue. I always thought Kim L looked pretty good!
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aliciabbrown 110 desperate attention whore postings
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02-08-05, 04:47 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: What is this about weight"
There is definitely a double standard here! As several have noted on this board already, a guy can weigh as much as he wants as long as he can sing. In fact, he can even win the competition if his singing is good enough. On the other hand, if a woman is 10 pounds overweight she is considered obese, at least by Simon's standards. I agree that the best person, regardless of weight, should win. If weight is an issue, however, it should be an issue for everyone, not just the females.

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strid333 2928 desperate attention whore postings
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02-08-05, 05:39 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: What is this about weight"
I agree. It is a double standard. But there are still lots of double standards out there. For example, if a man is a strong boss that orders people around, he is a good leader, however if a woman does the same thing, she is typically referred to as a b$%ch. And if a man sleeps around, he is a stud, and a woman is a w*&re.

But there are also reverse discriminations. Even though our society is improving, we still tend to look poorly on stay-at-home dads thinking that they aren't masculine.

I say that we have made great improvements in equality but we still have a long way to go.


Three is the perfect number.

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consise10 399 desperate attention whore postings
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02-08-05, 09:46 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: What is this about weight"
Ofcourse callilly the way one looks shouldn`t play a part,and the best person meaning, most talented ,should win.However, having said that, many talented people who make it to the top ten don`t neccesarily win.Look at how good Amy Adams was, as an example,and even the great Latoya London!
Getting back to the issue of weight-In Australias season two Idol,our top ten was riddled with many overweight contestants.Lots was said about them on our chatboards in relation to their weight.In reference to this discussion however,our third last Idol,(whom I thought came across as rather arrogant, had a very natural husky voice.To compare him I thought his voice rivaled Joe Cocker.His name was Courtney Murphy,and he was grossly overweight! One of the judjes,'Dicko'Ian Dickson did broach the subject with him on national TV.Ofcourse it`s a health issue,and an image issue.
Casey Donovan,was the one this year who gave emotion to her performances.Anthony Callea was great,but gave no emotion..so in my opinion the best Australian Idol 2 won.
And strid333, I don`t think stay at home dads aren`t masculine,do you? After all what does masculinity have to do with child rearing? For arguments sakes,I`d like us to blow up that notion of stereotype.
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Flairmarq 303 desperate attention whore postings
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02-09-05, 03:45 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: What is this about weight"
When the top ten is made, a lot has to do with location of the contestant. If they are from Cleveland, a pretty good portion of the audience in Cleveland votes for that person. But if you are from Stuckeyville, OH, population 5,000, you have fewer votes. This, however, only works until the last four, then its a free for all.
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consise10 399 desperate attention whore postings
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02-10-05, 04:53 AM (EST)
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20. "RE: What is this about weight"
Oh,so it has alot to do with pride in where you are from and an identification of that,between the contestant and the voter,does it Flairmarq?But what do you mean by "free for all"?
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Flairmarq 303 desperate attention whore postings
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02-10-05, 10:15 AM (EST)
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21. "RE: What is this about weight"
For the most part, yes--that is if one lives in a bigger state or city than another contestant. This ultimately happened with the Hawaiian contestant last year. When it comes to the top four--people start to vote for whomever they want to--because their contestant is usually eliminated by then and everyone has a good enough voice to win. Hense free for all.
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consise10 399 desperate attention whore postings
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02-10-05, 07:10 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: What is this about weight"
You are right about the incidence of Hawaii voting for Jasmine Trias last season,I understand what you mean.Thanks flairmarq.
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strid333 2928 desperate attention whore postings
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02-10-05, 11:03 PM (EST)
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23. "RE: What is this about weight"

>And strid333, I don`t think stay
>at home dads aren`t masculine,do
>you? After all what does
>masculinity have to do with
>child rearing? For arguments sakes,I`d
>like us to blow up
>that notion of stereotype.

As would I. I'm proud of my dad. He was ahead of his times. Though my mother took the maternity leave, she would care for me and my brother while my dad worked, but when he got home, she handed us over to my dad while she wrote her disertation for her PhD. And I've never thought of my dad as a girly man or anything like that. I always thought it was pretty normal.


Three is the perfect number.

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consise10 399 desperate attention whore postings
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02-11-05, 04:50 AM (EST)
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24. "RE: What is this about weight"
Thankyou for sharing that with us strid333.Infact I think your father ought to be commended for being so caring.Your family sounds normal and your mother very bright to have a PHD under her collar.Good on her!!

By the way ,why is `Three the perfect number`?

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strid333 2928 desperate attention whore postings
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02-13-05, 12:37 PM (EST)
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27. "RE: What is this about weight"
>By the way ,why is `Three
>the perfect number`?

For so many reasons. It is the perfect number for explaining math concepts. 2 can get confusing. 2+2, 2*2, 2^2 all equal 4 but 3+3 is 6, 3*3 is 9, and 3^3 is 27. And 4 gets into some pretty big numbers quickly. There is also the holy trinity. There are other reasons as well.


Three is the perfect number.

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ltarizona 4 desperate attention whore postings
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02-14-05, 03:39 AM (EST)
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30. "RE: What is this about weight"
what are you talking about?????????????????????????
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motormouth 4507 desperate attention whore postings
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02-13-05, 00:32 AM (EST)
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25. "RE: What is this about weight"
I think it has been said in a round about way but not directly, that the reason women are targeted more for being overweight is in fact legit. I believe it is because women are more capable of "idolizing" an overweight male then men are for women. Luther, Ruben, even fat Elvis had no shortage of adoring groupies (thus making them idols) whereas women that are overweight are not lusted after the same way. I am sure my opinion does not represent everyone but I do think it represents a majority. Just my $.02



*Courtesy of IceCat*

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consise10 399 desperate attention whore postings
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02-13-05, 01:24 AM (EST)
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26. "RE: What is this about weight"
Hello motormouth.

You are correct in saying that women are targeted more than men in this industry for being overweight,but does that make it right,and legitimate as you put it?

My answer is NO. It`s not right to pick on any one about their weight,only to make a point about their health and the ongoing messages about obesity within the western world.The media and the so called AI judges want often to create a scenario for controversy so as to keep themselves in the public eye.A recent conversation with a fellow poster reminded me of the fact that alot of these judges are performers of the past themselves and are now recording new albums themselves.A great example of such is here in Australia, Marcia Hines released an album alongside our second Idol winner,Marcia had hit it big here in the 70`s,and is now a prominent figure as judge on Australian Idol.

Unfortunately the weight of any performer is an issue especially those in the public eye week to week.So we do judge them on their appearance whether we like it or not,and it shows in our votes at the end of each performance.

Such interactive television viewing where we get to vote enables us to cast judgement over what we view and hear,so it creates a scene for the consensus ruling. Do you know what I mean motormouth ?

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motormouth 4507 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Stuff Magazine Centerfold"

02-14-05, 00:38 AM (EST)
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29. "RE: What is this about weight"
Judging someone based on their weight is not okay, by any means. However, as you pointed out, it does happen. That is why I beleive that the judges have a legitimate reason to acknowledge the contestants physical appearance. Being an "American Idol" is different that being "a great singer" and they are looking for an entire package to sell. While I wish it weren't that way, it simply is.
I do know what you mean concise10, and I beleive we are on the same page.



*Courtesy of IceCat*

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ltarizona 4 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"

02-14-05, 03:48 AM (EST)
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31. "RE: What is this about weight"
I truly agree with both of you, but unfortunatly it comes down to money and what will sell. so not only must they sound good. they must be accepted by the majority of the people. which again unfortunatly for women is the "model" type. which i agree is completely wrong.
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consise10 399 desperate attention whore postings
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02-14-05, 06:16 AM (EST)
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33. "RE: What is this about weight"
Itarizona-hi.
A question to you: would you class Kelly Clarkson and Fantasia Barrino "model types" ?
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opinionated 151 desperate attention whore postings
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02-16-05, 01:31 PM (EST)
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34. "RE: What is this about weight"
I have a different take on all of this.

I agree that Simon has a double standard. It irritates the heck out of me--but we are talking about a guy whose girlfriend's waistline looks like a toothpick, so it's obvious what he finds attractive.

My different take is this: I think the record industry has no idea whatsoever what the public "wants" and what will "sell." Hollywood is just as bad. They THINK they know--and they give us cookie-cutter pop stars who look like Britney Spears and have pathetic singing voices. But you know what? They are completely ignoring a huge segment of the population (basically over the age of mid-20's), who actually have grown-up tastes and sensibilities. The last cd I bought was Josh Grobin. Before that, it was Santana's Supernatural cd. What is that--2 cd's in 5 or 6 years? The record industry completely underestimates the public's desire for interesting, authentic, talent. The very fact that Idol limits the age of its contestants indicates that they don't really "get" that there's a large, untapped pool of potential cd buyers who are tired of this obsession with youth and body-type and just want to hear some great music.

I'm very pregnant, so I hope I just made sense. Remember a few years ago when Jennifer Aniston lost a bunch of weight? My husband has still not gotten over that. Whenever he sees old episodes of "Friends" he laments about how perfect her body was before she lost the weight. He says things like, "She had curves! God, look at her fantastic butt." Hollywood doesn't get it. The record industry doesn't get it. Maybe teenagers are obsessive about looks, but the older you get the less you care--even with these industries shoving their standards down our throats.

One last thought...Wouldn't it have been great if Frenchie Davis had remained in the competition for season 2? Would Simon have constantly commented on her weight, while leaving Ruben's weight alone? It sure would've been interesting.

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consise10 399 desperate attention whore postings
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02-19-05, 09:49 PM (EST)
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39. "RE: What is this about weight"
Simon absolutely has double standards and it was so obvious with his "affection" for Reuben.Reuben could do no wrong,could he? You are right,and thanks for your post, opinianated.
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