Email this topic to a friend Printer-friendly version of this topic Bookmark this topic (Registered users only)		Archived thread - Read only  Previous Topic | Next Topic
Conferences American Idol General Discussion Forum (Protected)
Original message

tarmaq 127 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 05-26-04, 11:05 PM (EST) "Who is the mysterious co-writer of "I Believe?"" Tamyra stated that she had co-written the song - but never mentioned who the other writer(s) was. As a songwriter, this rubs me the wrong way - credit should be given where credit is due. The most sensible explanation would seem to be that the co-writer is someone famous, and if Tamyra stated who it was (Diane Warren, for example, who writes LOTS of this same type of song) then people might downplay her, Tamyra's, involvement in it. Speculation on my part... but it makes sense. Anybody have any answers/theories/suppositions?   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer... managerr 05-26-04 1  RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer... MollyTV 05-27-04 2  RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer... realityjunky 05-27-04 3  RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer... dabo 05-27-04 4  RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer... goDAWful 05-27-04 5    RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer... tarmaq 05-27-04 6        RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer... goDAWful 05-27-04 7            RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer... Brownroach 05-27-04 8            RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer... tarmaq 05-27-04 9                RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer... Big Al 05-27-04 10                Not uncommon AyaK 05-27-04 11                    RE: Not uncommon Brownroach 05-27-04 13                        Uhh AyaK 05-27-04 15                            RE: Uhh Brownroach 05-27-04 17  RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer... Big Al 05-27-04 12    RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer... Brownroach 05-27-04 14        RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer... ginger 05-27-04 16            RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer... Loquatrix 05-27-04 19                RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer... tarmaq 05-27-04 20    RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer... tarmaq 05-27-04 18        RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer... Big Al 05-28-04 21

Lobby | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

Messages in this topic

managerr 1959 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 05-26-04, 11:33 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer of "I Believe?"" When an artist is listed as a co-writer, usually it means they just wrote the lyrics. Then they had a professional musician write the musical arragement for the song. I'm guessing that was the case here.   Top

MollyTV 480 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 05-27-04, 00:02 AM (EST) 2. "RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer of "I Believe?"" funny, i was wondering the very same thing....why didn't she say "who" she co-wrote it with. hmmm molly   Top

realityjunky 53 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 05-27-04, 00:44 AM (EST) 3. "RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer of "I Believe?"" For some reason I thought that song was one by Celine Dion...it sounds similar to a song that she sings in one of those car commercials...just me rambling...   Top

dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-27-04, 01:36 AM (EST) 4. "RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer of "I Believe?"" http://www.fye.com/catalog/biography.jhtml;jsessionid=M53W10KDPLFB0CIIAADAABIJBAAAMAIA?itemId=10623045&artistType=music The Dreamer, an eclectic collection of songs written by Gray and including collaborations with Babyface, Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis, Scott Storch, and Diane Warren ...   Top

goDAWful 34 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 05-27-04, 02:11 AM (EST) 5. "RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer of "I Believe?"" "I Believe" was written by Louis Biancanello and Sam Watters (both record producers, songwriters and arrangers) with the lyrics co-written by Tamyra.   Top

tarmaq 127 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 05-27-04, 02:20 AM (EST) 6. "RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer of "I Believe?"" I have no idea where you found that info - you must be better at googling than I! Thanks. I still think they should have given credit to the other writers. It would have been the sporting thing. Thanks again.   Top

goDAWful 34 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 05-27-04, 03:50 AM (EST) 7. "RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer of "I Believe?"" Not Google -- an easier way. ;) Someone I know produced the recording sessions in the latter half of last week in which "I Believe" was recorded by both Fantasia and Diana. And yes, proper writing credit should be given to authors of creative works as a matter of course. However, some authors are happy to sign away their right to be given proper public credit, if the dollar amount is right. This is how bands like Aerosmith who frequently use big-name "ghost songwriters" can avoid letting it be known that they don't necessarily personally scribe their hits. Happens all the time in this business. Watters and Biancanello are famous songwriters. When the song appears on the charts, I'll be very surprised indeed if their names aren't clearly indicated as writers. I'll tell you how the entry lists when the appropriate Billboard chart is published. For what it's worth, my dude in the recording studio said Fantasia was clearly the better performer.   Top

Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-27-04, 11:10 AM (EST) 8. "RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer of "I Believe?"" All of the writers will get credited on the recording, I'm positive. They're just saying it's Tamyra's song because she was a contestant so it's a point of interest the audience can identify with. In the same vein: how many people think that Paul Anka is the composer/author of "MY WAY"? Actually all he did was write English lyrics to an existing song by three French writers. But most of the time the song is publicly credited to Paul Anka only, as if he wrote the whole thing. "White people with bags are almost certainly involved in the filming of some reality show project." -- the ChillOne (Skiver)   Top

tarmaq 127 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 05-27-04, 12:28 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer of "I Believe?"" Well, goodness. I feel better about the fact that my sleuthing skills weren't at issue! I'd be interested to see if there was indeed a second verse to the song. It struck me kind of odd that there wasn't - but realizing how they "shorten" things at AI, I wouldn't be surprised if that is what they did for this song as well for the performances. I'm glad that the other writers will be credited. I would venture to guess that since 19 is in this "pushing Tamyra" phase, since she is their first artist, that is also a contributing factor in downplaying the role of the other writers. I personally have always liked Tamyra - but it seemed there was a little too much focus on her from AI in the last couple of weeks. Then again, I suppose it was just savvy marketing on 19's part. I've heard of people selling the rights to their songs - I would have to say they would have to make me an unbelievable offer I couldn't refuse if anyone ever asked me to do that. It seems there are lots of things that happen in the business that are not on the up-and-up, ethically. I had heard at one point that Celine Dion told the songwriters for songs on one of her albums that they would have to take a 20% cut in royalties if they wanted to be included. (http://www.jimsteinman.com/sacred.htm) The big name writers refused - but "hungry" artists evidently figured half of a big pie is better than all of a nonexistent pie. I personally feel that is a horrid thing to do to a songwriter - 8.5 cents per song per unit is not too much to ask for! It is on their work that your reputation is made! It'll be interesting to see how this one plays out.   Top

Big Al 293 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 05-27-04, 02:18 PM (EST) 10. "RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer of "I Believe?"" Bob Dylan?   Top

AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-27-04, 02:48 PM (EST) 11. "Not uncommon" I've heard of people selling the rights to their songs - I would have to say they would have to make me an unbelievable offer I couldn't refuse if anyone ever asked me to do that. Here's an offer to a little-known songwriter: my big-name artist will record your song if you list my big-name artist as a co-author, which means he/she will get a percentage of the songwriting and publishing royalties from the song. You will also be listed as a co-author and you will also get a percentage of the songwriting and publishing royalties. This used to be a VERY common practice in the recording industry -- Elvis Presley, for example, did it consistently until 1968 (except that he didn't ask people like Lieber-Stoller for it). One of the great stories involves Elvis' hit "Love Me Tender," to which the true credit should be (Music: Traditional (it's the 1861 song "Aura Lee"), arranged by Ken Darby; Lyrics: Ken Darby), but the actual credit reads (Music & Lyrics: Elvis Presley and Vera Matson). Darby had to give up half of the song for Elvis to do it; Vera Matson was Darby's wife. When asked why he listed her name on the credits instead of his own, Darby said, "Because she didn't write it either." Today, the more common practice is just to ask for part of the publishing, as Celine Dion did. Steinman's article says that "divas like Barbra Streisand, Whitney Houston and Mariah Carey are not in the business of charging a fee to their songwriters" -- only true in part, since everyone knows that Barbra's co-writing credit on "Evergreen (Theme from 'A Star Is Born')" was a "gift" from Paul Williams in return for the song being used as the movie's theme (Barbra disputes this, claiming to have written the song's first line -- certainly a substantial enough contribution to deserve a co-writing credit for the whole song ... ). The fact is, only a few artists have enough guaranteed sales to justify such a demand. If you're the author giving up publishing, you want to be sure that your song will be on a hit CD so that you'll make a profit on the deal -- and how many artists can guarantee that their next CD will be a hit these days? Certainly not druggy Whitney or bipolar Mariah!   Top

Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-27-04, 03:08 PM (EST) 13. "RE: Not uncommon" since everyone knows that Barbra's co-writing credit on "Evergreen (Theme from 'A Star Is Born')" was a "gift" from Paul Williams in return for the song being used as the movie's theme Not quite, AyaK. Paul Williams only wrote the lyrics. Streisand was working with a not-yet-well-known Rupert Holmes (he wrote some other songs on the album) at the time, and it's been widely speculated that, while she may have written the first line of the melody, he was the one who fleshed her idea out into a full-fledged song. He does not have a writer credit on "Evergreen", however. "White people with bags are almost certainly involved in the filming of some reality show project." -- the ChillOne (Skiver)   Top

AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-27-04, 03:33 PM (EST) 15. "Uhh" LAST EDITED ON 05-27-04 AT 03:41 PM (EST) Two things: 1) Actually, Rupert Holmes was pretty well known at the time, at least within the industry. For example, I already owned his first CBS album, "Widescreen," which was done at least a year before the soundtrack. (of course, now he's better known as an author and playwright!) And let's not forget 1971's "Timothy" by Rupert under the name "the Buoys," his hit about cannibalism. 2) Paul Williams was known as a lyricist, with Roger Nichols writing the music for their hits ("Someday Man," "Out In The Country," "We've Only Just Begun"). However, Paul also wrote music for many of his songs, going all the way back to his first album (The Holy Mackerel -- no joke; it was also the name of his group), and including co-writing the music for Kermit the Frog's hit "Rainbow Connection." I'd never heard anyone say that Rupert wrote the music to "Evergreen." Arrangement, yes. Music ... well, if he did, that's news to me. However, now that I think about it, Rupert did write the music for Paul's lyrics on the song "Everything" from that album, so it's certainly possible. My point is that Barbra didn't write the music.   Top

Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-27-04, 04:23 PM (EST) 17. "RE: Uhh" LAST EDITED ON 05-27-04 AT 04:28 PM (EST) FWIW, on her website the song credits for the album are shown as: 6. Evergreen (Love Theme From "A Star Is Born") Words by Paul Williams, Music by Barbra Streisand I read the Rupert Holmes rumors in a book about Babs (and I think possibly other places). Neither Babs, Rupert or Paul will admit the truth of course. Rupert Holmes had the one album but he was not "established" as either a writer or artist yet. Barbra supposedly heard "Widescreen" and asked him to produce her "Lazy Afternoon" album on the strength of that, and then to write some songs for "A Star Is Born". So it's more logical to me that he helped her with the song, as they were already spending a lot of "musical time" together, whereas Paul Williams was already a known quantity who was called in to work on "A Star Is Born." I just can't imagine that, as an established lyricist and composer by that point, Paul Williams would not have balked at giving credit to someone else for his own work, but I guess it's possible. But either way, as you say the point is that *she* apparently did not write more than a line or two of music. So someone got shafted, either Rupert or Paul. Or RuPaul. "White people with bags are almost certainly involved in the filming of some reality show project." -- the ChillOne (Skiver)   Top

Big Al 293 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 05-27-04, 02:54 PM (EST) 12. "RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer of "I Believe?"" What does it matter? Songwriters generally get no credit on this show. When someone is asked what song they will sing, they simply respond something like The Star Spangled Banner by Whitney Houston (the last person they heard sing the song) rather than the actual writer of the song.   Top

Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-27-04, 03:11 PM (EST) 14. "RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer of "I Believe?"" Everyone knows that "The Star Spangled Banner" is by Jimi Hendrix, not Whitney Houston. "White people with bags are almost certainly involved in the filming of some reality show project." -- the ChillOne (Skiver)   Top

ginger 22512 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-27-04, 03:45 PM (EST) 16. "RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer of "I Believe?"" I am loving you for that, Brownroach. "Any government that would deny a gay man bridal registry is fascist." Margaret Cho   Top

Loquatrix 640 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-27-04, 07:40 PM (EST) 19. "RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer of "I Believe?"" I don't think BR has ever posted anything I disagree with. Rock on, Roachman! <grin> Rant for the day -- performers having the privilege to sing the National Anthem on any occasion should do said anthem the courtesy of singing it as it was meant to be sung. In other words, it's not an R&B lurve-making ballad that women should peel off their panties to, so let's not have any more boy band a capella renditions that sound like some juvenile "I love my baby's momma" song off MTV. And enough with the Mariah Carey-style trilling and embellishment -- that's just horrible self-promotion that appeals only to a minority of the population when the song actually belongs to all Americans. It's a great song that is recognized and enjoyed the world over (unlike many National Anthems that are frequently too sombre or long-winded for real enjoyment). So let's just always have a good, rousing, upbeat, dynamic rendition in an appropriate tempo and with the melody unobscured by the egotistical ramblings of popstars, so that everyone can sing along lustily. And I'm not even an American. Done ranting.   Top

tarmaq 127 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 05-27-04, 08:06 PM (EST) 20. "RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer of "I Believe?"" Loquatrix, you had me rolling on the floor! Especially with the "And I'm not even an American" part! I appreciated that you were sticking up for our song - and we'd like to return the respect. I don't know where you're from, but I started visualizing "Oh, Canada" with trills, or "God save the gracious que-e-e-e-e-ah-en!" I couldn't imagine it. Dignity, people. ICAM with your points! Everyone's national anthems need to be recognizable! And preferably sung in one key. Not whichever key happens to fit the current vocaltrillzations and gymnastics one is wanting to incorporate.   Top

tarmaq 127 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 05-27-04, 07:40 PM (EST) 18. "RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer of "I Believe?"" >What does it matter? Songwriters generally >get no credit on this >show. When someone is >asked what song they will >sing, they simply respond something >like The Star Spangled Banner >by Whitney Houston (the last >person they heard sing the >song) rather than the actual >writer of the song. Why the hostility of "what does it matter?" A big deal was made about Tamyra being a "co-writer". The logical question would be who her co-writers were, since her contribution was made to be a big deal.   Top

Big Al 293 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 05-28-04, 09:24 AM (EST) 21. "RE: Who is the mysterious co-writer of "I Believe?"" You mistake hostility for simply making a point in a light fashion about a thing that has sort of bugged me about the show. I am actually sticking up for the songwriters, who often see credit given to the wrong person. Francis Scott Key is turning in his grave. Whitney would have been too seasick at the time to write those words. He did however steal the actual music from a previous song and substituted his word.   Top

Remove

Lobby | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

Select another forum Lobby The Amazing Race Message Board Forums (Conference)   |--The Amazing Race Fanatics Forum (Protected)   |--The Amazing Race Basher Forum (Protected)   |--The Amazing Race Spoiler/Speculation Forum (Protected) American Idol Message Board Forums (Conference)   |--American Idol General Discussion Forum (Protected)   |--American Idol Individual Contestant and Judge Discussion Forum (Protected) Big Brother Message Board Forums (Conference)   |--Big Brother Fanatic Forum (Protected)   |--Big Brother Bashers Forum (Protected)   |--Big Brother Live Feed Updates And Spoilers (Protected) Survivor Message Board Forums (Conference)   |--Survivor Fanatic Forum (Protected)   |--Survivor Basher Forum (Protected)   |--Survivor Spoilers Forum (Protected)   |--Survivor Games Forum (Protected) Other Reality TV Shows (Conference)   |--The Bachelor / The Bachelorette Forum (Protected)   |--Dancing with the Stars Forum (Protected)   |--Other Reality TV Shows Forum (Protected) Off Topic (Conference)   |--The Help Forum (Protected)   |--Off-Topic Forum (Protected)