This is exactly what's wrong with our society. People spit on those who are successful and hardworking . How was Wolf more arrogant than Whitlow who seemed to look down on all the other recruits? Was he the only backstabber? What's wrong with defending yourself when you know others are planning to vote you out? Wolf got bashed by the other recruits and viewers while he played the game perfectly.

During this time, we make Heroes out of people who are dragging behind. I'm sorry for Whitlow, but one freaking hour to cross a wooden palisade is ridiculous. Alright, she didn't give up, but she didn't deserve a medal either. This is like making an hero out of someone who took 20 years to get his High School diploma.

Then people say that Whitlow has heart and Wolf doesn't. What did everyone want to see Wolf do? Did he need to break his 2 legs and crawl to the finish line to finally get some respect?

At least Wolf gave a hug to Whitlow after losing. I seriously doubt she would have done the same thing.

• RE: When losers become winners.,SurvivinDawg, 12:57 PM, 05-24-01
  • RE: When losers become winners.,tonedef, 01:10 PM, 05-24-01
    • RE: When losers become winners.,Omi, 01:37 PM, 05-24-01
      • RE: When losers become winners.,tonedef, 01:51 PM, 05-24-01
        • RE: When losers become winners.,Omi, 02:08 PM, 05-24-01
          • RE: When losers become winners.,tonedef, 02:25 PM, 05-24-01
            • RE: When losers become winners.,Omi, 02:34 PM, 05-24-01
              • The Lesser of 2 Evils!,tonedef, 02:36 PM, 05-24-01
                • RE: The Lesser of 2 Evils!,Omi, 02:42 PM, 05-24-01
    • RE: When losers become winners.,SurvivinDawg, 01:46 PM, 05-24-01
      • RE: When losers become winners.,tonedef, 02:08 PM, 05-24-01
        • RE: When losers become winners.,Omi, 02:16 PM, 05-24-01
        • RE: When losers become winners,Lurking, 10:18 AM, 05-25-01
      • RE: When losers become winners.,Omi, 02:12 PM, 05-24-01
        • I agree...,tonedef, 02:29 PM, 05-24-01
• RE: When losers become winners.,Tiris Blade, 12:04 PM, 03-04-05

I have nothing against Whitlow, but everything Omi said in the above post is true, both pertaining to this game, and the larger message of what our society has become. Boot Camp DID succeed in showing one thing: it has accurately shown the road down which we are headed, and it is not a road upon which people who respect man's mind will be traveling.

*** Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

"I've never been bored a day in my life. Only boring people get bored." -- Jerri Manthey

As stated in a previous thread, I think the message of this boot camp is much better than you think it is. Wolf was an arrogant, pompous backstabber who alienated everyone but Whitlow in the game. He didn't get any of the jury votes. Not one! That just goes to show something for his character.

He may be physically stronger, and faster. But that is overshadowed by the ability to get along with others. You are right on one thing, Dawg...the mind easily overshadows the body. Wolfs strength could only take him so far...it was Whitlows diplomacy that got her the victory. A valuble life lesson, I say!

LAST EDITED ON 05-24-01 AT 01:40 PM (EST)

Oh come on...

Whitlow wasn't an angel either. She manipulated everyone especially at the end.

Except for Moretty, Pupo and Hutak, the people who voted for Whitlow only did it because she was the one they hated the less. Which doesn't mind they liked her that much.

You stereotype people too easily. He's strong but a bad person and she's weak, but a good person. It's much more complicated than that.

You have just contradicted your first statement. You said that Wolf was strong, thus a good player. You said that Whitlow was weak, thus an undeserving player.

You then say that I stereotype too easily by having people fit into deserving/undeserving categories, when it is much more complicated than that. Please tell me, what other basis did you have for Wolf deserving to win other than the fact that he was stronger than Whitlow?

Neither is good nor bad. I just oppose your view that Wolf deserved to win because he was the stronger of the 2. I disagree with him being the stronger of the 2. Thought Whitlow was manipulative, she was not as openly arrogant or backstabbing about it. Thus, she was the lesser of the 2 evils, which is exactly what position you want to be in during a final vote such as this or survivor.

Jeez...

Did you watch the show or what?

Wolf was not only strong, he participed and give his 110% in ALL MISSIONS. Even the one that would give Whitlow the immunity. If he was really an ass like everyone is describing him, he would have srew that last mission. He was also a good leader, unlike all others who failed as Squad Leaders.

Even if people hated him, he still acted nice to them in a way to seemed more honest than Whitlow's double faced attitude.

Wolf was strong, yes, and he tried hard. I doubt he would have purposely thrown the last mission, however, for that would have set him up to get kicked off. Better to support the mission, and hopefully vote someone off that would not take him. And yes, he was a good leader.

I have no faults with Wolf...I have faults with you and Dawgs belief that Wolf deserved the win, and that Whitlow winning portrays a downfall of society. Whitlow winning shows what all these reality shows have shown; that Diplomacy will win over strength. Wolf didn't get a single recruit vote. Whitlow got all of them. Wolf could have been the strongest person in the world, but, without the votes of his peers, he was nothing. He should have reconsidered his arrogant stance early into the game, if he had had any chance of winning.

LAST EDITED ON 05-24-01 AT 02:36 PM (EST)

Whitlow didn't get all the votes because they loved her. She got them because some people were misleaded about Wolf and from a coin toss. I didn't see any diplomacy here.

That's what really pisses me off, if she got all the votes for who she is instead of getting them by default, I would respect that.

I don't think she got them for who she was, I think she got them for who WOLF was. The lesser of 2 evils, by far, in the eyes of the jury!

Well..

That's basically what I think, you said it better.

Just who did Wolf backstab? Moretti? He had to vote for SOMEONE in the end. Remember, that as far as the voting crap goes, this was a game. It's like the old Star Trek episode where Kirk and Spock and Abe Lincoln and Surak faced 4 bad guys. The rock creature holding this contest said "good defeats evil, but the methods are the same" and Kirk said "that's because YOU set up the conditions!". Same thing here, within the confines of this game, Wolf backstabbed (if that's the word you choose to use) far less than most of the others.

Whitlow's diplomacy didn't get her the victory. Wolf being falsely accused got her the victory. Sure, innocent men have been sent to jail and some have been executed, but that doesn't make what happened to Wolf RIGHT.

So sorry to say, also (and clown can stop reading), but Whitlow partly owes her win to the producers who manipulated the game. They wanted a strong woman (which she was) against one of the best males (which Wolf was). Nothing against her in that. But if this game had been truly allowed to proceed by the alliances produced, all the men would've been gone within 3 episodes or so. Once Park was waxed, that was it. The manipulation was clear, particularly in keeping the genders even.

But the bottom line is that the general statements that both myself and Omi have made are correct.

*** Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

Wolf admitted to the camera several times that he was willingly backstabbing others to continue in the game. He would be told something, then repeat that to the person being discussed. It made him get further in the game, but it is betrayal. When you are told something in confidence, going behind their back to the person in question is backstabbing. He openly discussed doing this to the camera on 2 different episodes, perhaps more.

And again with the manipulation...why, Dawg, would they have chosen Whitlow for the final? There were plenty of other women that could have been in the final that were strong women. Brown I saw as a much more likely candidate for 'Producer Interference'. She was seen as a leader (as was Wolf), and was attractive. I had seen Whitlow as a follower, really, up until the end there, and I never saw her being as strong as Wolf. Hutak? Moretty? Either one of them could have sufficed as well. There was no need for producers to have led her along...they would have been pleased with any of those women making it to the end.

Was Wolf falsely accused? Yes. But he was always disliked by many recruits...in fact, that was even why he was accused in that episode in the first place. Because he was disliked, because he was seen as too arrogant. Hutak and Brown may have said their votes were because of that incident...if that incident hadn't happened, I am willing to bet they would have found a different one to excuse their decision on.

The show is now over...and, hopefully, it will just go away. I was not too overly fond of the editing, and didn't really care for either of the final 2. But the same conclusion to this show exists in the first 2 survivors; Diplomacy and strategy (Whitlow, Tina, Rich) will always win out over Strength. (Wolf, Colby, Kelly).

My 2 cents...or, if you want, 1 1/2 cents Canadian.

He was accused because Brown said he stole Yaney's D-ring to others.

But the BIATCH wasn't even there when it happened. I can't believe they all fell for it.

He wasn't hated that much before that happened.

I'm wondering about the allegation of manipulation, too. Circumstantial evidence is tantalizing yet annoying - it presents you with possibilities but gives no certainties. All we have are our suspicions about the show which may turn out to be something or nothing at all.

What's most frustrating is that I wasted 2 hours watching wolf giving his best and he wasted 48 hours doing it. Only to find out that he could have sit there in the sand, doing nothing and the results would have been the same.

Brown was the ringleader in accusing Wolf of losing the rings. But he was not much liked before that....I know during a sandbag exercise in an early episode a few women were saying some derogatory comments concerning him, and I highly doubt that his whining episode after talking to Meyer won him any points.

Why did Brown accuse him? She already didn't like him then, and she saw the chance to drive the nail into his coffin. And it did...it just happened much later than she expected, during the final jury vote.

It was frustrating...I think that I would have preferred a Wolf win over a Whitlow one. He was more personable. He just got on too many peoples nerves...had he remained diplomatic, he would have won.

So take your plain ordinary average loser, he has brown hair, and hazel eyes, he went to only 4 parties in high school, and now hes about to kill himself, or do something ridiculous like that. Oh thinks god? What if this loser had blond hair and blue green eyes that shined like a god among men, and he went to all the parties and got head from the hottest babes in high school all time, the ones that not just any dude could get like the ones you rate as a 7 - 10 on the aol instant messenger scale. When losers become winners, wouldnt that be the best.