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Original Message
"Will vs. Danielle"

Posted by Glass on 08-08-06 at 11:26 AM
True made an interesting statement recently in another thread about how Danielle has Chilltown "under her thumb." Here's the link:

http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID34/946.shtml#56

And sure enough, I disagree with True yet again. I think Danielle's gonna get burned bad. Her and James' offer to Chilltown to form the LOD alliance was, I think, a pleasant surprise for Will and Boogie and just one more opportunity to wrap more Houseguests around their fingers.

So I wanted to get everybody's opinion on this... Who's using who and who will win between Will and Dani?



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Messages in this discussion
"RE: Will vs. Danielle"
Posted by brvnkrz on 08-08-06 at 11:32 AM
I think they ALL use each other. If I had to choose between Will and Dani, I would put my money on Will.


A wonderful Tribe original


"RE: Will vs. Danielle"
Posted by CattyChat on 08-08-06 at 02:13 PM
I'm with you, Knkrz. Danielle's Achilles heel, as well as James, is their over-inflated egos and big mouths. Loose lips sink ships and these too are talking way too much smack and game and they're both going to get burned.


Kind Creation of ARNutz


"RE: Will vs. Danielle"
Posted by Queene1979 on 08-08-06 at 11:42 AM
I think will is using Danielle, I think if Janelle wins HOH this week, Will will definately fuel her hatred of Danielle enough to get her to nominate Danielle or possibly backdoor her, and Will will have Janelle do his dirty work and get out one of the big threats in the house, if anyone outside of the floaters alliance wants to win this they need to get rid of James and Danielle very quickly. I am hoping CT will realize this and get rid of James this week.

"RE: Will vs. Danielle"
Posted by Savahnna on 08-08-06 at 12:01 PM

>I am hoping CT will
>realize this and get rid
>of James this week.

I really suspect they will (get rid of James first)..or try to.
I think Will realizes that Kaysar is much more maliable (sp?)....

James has a lot of killer instinct and Will smells it like an animal hunting his prey.



"RE: Will vs. Danielle"
Posted by Queene1979 on 08-08-06 at 12:05 PM
I agree, also, we will see if the rumours of a pre-show Kaysar/Dr. Will alliance are correct, if Will, Mike and Erika vote to evict James, thats all the votes Kaysar needs. I think it may be smart for him to offer protection to CT and Erika should he not be evicted and win HOH this week. I mean Kaysar is known for keeping his word so I think they could trust him. Also Kaysar needs to tell CT that James was the one gunning for them the week Janelle was HOH.

"RE: Will vs. Danielle"
Posted by Savahnna on 08-08-06 at 12:19 PM
LAST EDITED ON 08-08-06 AT 12:20 PM (EST)

>if the rumours of a
>pre-show Kaysar/Dr. Will alliance are
>correct,


I do know that I read a transcript of a preshow Chat that incl Howie/Kayar/Will and Will was a total dic to Kaysar. Really nasty slams. Though Kaysar was in his face about being rude and following the rules of the forum for the chat...so it was provoked at some level...and we know how offensive Will can be once he's egged on...but it sure didn't look like alliance material...nor was it scripted. I think any alliance Will makes pre show..or during is worthless. But I'm not ready to rule out any twists that can come before the eviction that weren't on feeds. Can't wait!!


"RE: Will vs. Danielle"
Posted by tamarama on 08-08-06 at 12:16 PM
>>Kaysar is much more maliable...<<

Bingo!

Malleable -- AND transparent.

Also, some have been arguing that W&B should keep James because they want to make "good TV" and James makes better TV than Kaysar....however, flipping things & creating a surprise eviction (James) is really good TV.


"RE: Will vs. Danielle"
Posted by Savahnna on 08-08-06 at 12:22 PM
>Malleable -- AND transparent.


Thx for the correct spelling!

I have to laugh....I looked it up and really did know the right spelling....I just type before I think!!



"RE: Will vs. Danielle"
Posted by tamarama on 08-08-06 at 01:16 PM
No sweat!! (I wasn't trying to be all 'school marm' on you)

"RE: Will vs. Danielle"
Posted by AugustGirl on 08-08-06 at 12:58 PM
Danielle thinks she has everyone figured out, is smarter than everyone else, and plays the game better than everyone else. Not so. If she was smart she would have let Erika win HOH last week. Instead she nominated her secret alliance partner (who could very well be evicted this week), and spent 24 hours in solitary boo hooing because her real target won POV. Not so smart, huh?

Will owns these people, especially Danielle.


a J Slice original. bounce by Icey.


"RE: Will vs. Danielle"
Posted by brvnkrz on 08-08-06 at 01:00 PM
Say it sistah. You are right on the mark.


A wonderful Tribe original


"RE: Will vs. Danielle"
Posted by superstepmom1 on 08-08-06 at 01:00 PM
Will is def. calling ALL the shots here. He's truly a great manipulator of people.

I didn't like Will at first. He was pasty and had greasy hair (Yes, I have to be able to look at them to like them). He's growing on me though, and he def. has to be respected for being totally honest about being a total liar. I'm sure out of the house, he is not Evil Dr. Will.

I started out as a Season 6 Fan, but they just can't outshine Will (and I don't mean his hair!).



"RE: Will vs. Danielle"
Posted by JoshInSGV on 08-08-06 at 02:23 PM
I'm a huge Season 6 fan (except for James), but I got to admit that Will has grown on me. He's the one calling the shots, yet he hasn't won a single HOH. He lets others do the dirty work and take the fall for him. He manipulates people by being charming, instead of throwing hissy fits like moronic James. Will owns them all, including Danielle. I can't wait to see that self-righteous b!tch getting evicted from the house. She's going on a power trip and giving ChillTown all the ammunition they need to turn the house against her.

"RE: Will vs. Danielle"
Posted by Savahnna on 08-08-06 at 02:25 PM
I think most are on board with your thinking and liking Will.

I just can't get past his obcessive vanity. I really hope he didn't shoot up Erin with botox. Who am I kidding. That's probably what they did on thier first date.


"RE: Will vs. Danielle"
Posted by MizJazmine on 08-08-06 at 03:09 PM
Hate ta say it but I do think Will is in a league all by himself and that he could have Danielle for lunch or maybe more like a snack. IMO Danielle is really not that big of a threat. She played her best game in her season, and while I do think she should of won it she couldn't of because unlike Will she wasn't consistant in her game. Will basically told people up front and stayed true to the course of that. How and why they're letting Will stay in the game is beyond me. In all honesty I don't think they really know who he is in terms of "seeing and knowing" his game when he played in Season 2. When it's all said and done I would really like to know who all really saw Season 2 up in that house 'cuz I'm not understanding how folks are pettin' a snake while hearing the rattle.

"RE: Will vs. Danielle"
Posted by nailbone on 08-08-06 at 03:16 PM
Will is the very embodiment of the fable of the Frog and the Scorpion.


Holey carp! My blog! MySpace!
Official OT Tassel Adjuster and OT Fantasy Football Champ! o-


"RE: Will vs. Danielle"
Posted by Savahnna on 08-08-06 at 03:24 PM
the
>Frog and the Scorpion.


Hey! I never heard that one and I'm a Scorpian! Well if November b-days count.


"RE: Will vs. Danielle"
Posted by nailbone on 08-08-06 at 03:58 PM
Scorpion asks the Frog for a ride across the river. Frog says "No way! You'll kill me!" Scorpion says "Nah, that'd be silly cuz then we'd both drown". Frog says "OK, climb on". Halfway across, the scorpion stings the frog. As they sink, frog says "Why?" Replies the scorpion: "Its my nature..."




Holey carp! My blog! MySpace!
Official OT Tassel Adjuster and OT Fantasy Football Champ! o-


"RE: Will vs. Danielle"
Posted by Savahnna on 08-08-06 at 04:01 PM
Yup. Love him or hate him the man's got killer instinct.

"RE: Will vs. Danielle"
Posted by JoshInSGV on 08-08-06 at 06:11 PM
Hey Nailbone,
I'm not sure if I agree with your comparison of Will and the scorpion. Based on that fable, the scorpion's "backstabbing" ultimatelly brings on his own demise. This sounds more like a depiction of James than Will. Will only lies when he knows he can get ahead. James, on the other hand, lies and betrays people because he can't help himself. He overplays his hand and ultimatelly it comes back to haunt him in the end, just like the scorpion. =)

"RE: Will vs. Danielle"
Posted by maryellennaco on 08-08-06 at 06:23 PM
The proof is in the pudding of who's a better playa. Gotta be Dr. Will - he DID win the $$$ before! Plus, I think Danielle has a really high opinion of her abilities to play people, but watching Will with Janelle again proves his is the better game!

"RE: Will vs. Danielle"
Posted by Joyav123 on 08-08-06 at 10:40 PM
Will can put on the bs better than Danielle he plays her to her
superior wisdom.

"RE: Will vs. Danielle"
Posted by true on 08-08-06 at 10:49 PM
Hold on there people. I said "Right now, I'd say Dani has CT under her thumb." The key words being "right now". The reason I say that is because Boogie said he really trusts Danielle, and they were joyful about kicking Kaysar out this week, as Dani told them to. I just don't see how that is a smart move for CT, but it is a great move for Dani. I will say that James is securely under Danielle's control. He screamed bloody murder at Janelle for wanting to get Diane out because it was better for HER, but when Danielle does the same thing, when the whole house wants Marcellas out, he rolls right over.

If CT voted out James this week along with Howie and Janelle, they'd still need one more vote. Kaysar thinks he has Chicken George, but I don't think so. Boogie could drag Erica into it, but it would be a tough sell. I think the only way to get James out would be to completely discredit him with everyone, and that would mean calling out his alliance with Danielle and CT in front of everyone. If they were successful, they'd get rid of James and Dani would be stuck in an alliance with Chicken George, Erica, and Marcellas. CT would get Janelle, Howie, and Kaysar.

If they vote out Kaysar, they have a much harder road to the end. Danielle has an alliance with everyone in the house except Howie and Janelle. Once those two are picked off, CT will be vulnerable. Why wouldn't they want to be 5 strong with H/K/J against Dani and 3 losers, instead of 2 in an alliance of 7?


"RE: Will vs. Danielle"
Posted by JoshInSGV on 08-09-06 at 00:36 AM
I think you make some really valid points. But, would CT actually call out James on all his backstabbing? By calling out James, aren't Will/Boogie indirectly calling themselves out as well? Assuming that Kaysar stays, why should the Sovs align with ChillTown if they (CT) have been plotting against them (Sovs)? Furthermore, why would CT want to draw attention to themselves when they can just lay low for a couple of weeks while the Sovs and the Floaters take each other out. I think Will is capable of dismantling the alliance between Danielle and James later on. All Will has to do is exploit James' paranoia and watch him self destruct.

"RE: Will vs. Danielle"
Posted by iloverob on 08-09-06 at 11:06 AM
CT's best move was to try to get Dani to nominate Marcellas instead of Kasar. They did that so that they wouldn't have to show their hand and pick sides - everyone would vote out Marcellas. Dani didn't do that, so now they are in the position of having to pick sides - or are they? They should split their vote and then blame others for the numbers not adding up.

Can't wait to see how it plays out.


"RE: Will vs. Danielle"
Posted by stlrec on 08-09-06 at 11:27 AM
Don't forget James has the ability to change one eviction vote.

"Except..."
Posted by AyaK on 08-09-06 at 05:51 PM
If they vote out Kaysar, they have a much harder road to the end. Danielle has an alliance with everyone in the house except Howie and Janelle. Once those two are picked off, CT will be vulnerable.

No one knows how strong Dani's alliances are, however, except for the one with James. CT might think that it has the edge at some point in that scenario -- after all, it's better to take on a block of two than a block of three (SOVs without James) or four (SOVs with James).

Will and Dani both know that they have the opportunity to betray each other in the right situation. They also know that they are the two most strategic players in the game, and they aren't viewed by the others as being aligned. That, IMHO, gives them a strong reason not to turn on each other at this time.


"RE: Except..."
Posted by brvnkrz on 08-09-06 at 06:09 PM
Dani and Will would be an interesting final two. I would throw my vote to Will but if Dani made it to final two, I would have to giver her kudos.


A wonderful Tribe original


"RE: Except..."
Posted by true on 08-09-06 at 06:40 PM
Everyone knows that Dani is the leader of the so-called floaters.(Erica, Marcellas,George) With the exception of a relationship between Erica and Boogie, CT knows that those floaters have an bond with Dani, and Zero bond with them. In fact, Marcellas and George are both interested in targeting CT.

The problem for CT is if Kaysar goes instead of James, they don't know what George or Marcellas will do. They do know that if they get rid of James, that the other Sovs will be loyal to them and target the floaters + Dani before they go after CT.

They may think they can flip over to Janelle and Howie once Kaysar is gone, but they won't have the votes to eliminate their strongest competition, James and Dani. The Sovs are their shield, and once one or two go (not including James) they are in trouble with at least 3 remaining players.

Howie, Janelle, and Kaysar are clueless strategically, but they would be loyal if CT saved them, AND, they can win competitions. Dani may run into trouble once her targets dwindle, and she has to start turning on her own followers. I suppose she could dump CT at that point, but that would just prove that Dani IS in control, not CT.

I just don't see any advantage to CT alligning with Dani, James and the floaters.

They also know that they are the two most strategic players in the game,

Exactly, so why wouldn't Will want her gone asap? The longer Dani is there the harder it will be for CT. If James is gone, than Dani is left with the likes of Chicken George, Erica, and Marcellas to protect her. They have won nothing. Along with the 3 remaing Sovs they'd have the votes to get her out next week, leaving 3 crappy players to run over on their way to the finals, and a shield of 3 original Sovs as targets for those crappy players.


"RE: Except..."
Posted by JoshInSGV on 08-09-06 at 08:04 PM
I still think that CT will choose to ride the Danielle bandwagon for a while. CT knows that if Howie/Janelle win HOH, they will most likely go after Danielle, unless James can dissuade them. Janelle can do the dirty work for CT by removing Danielle, just as Danielle can do their dirty work by removing the Sovs. If these people had an ounce of intelligence, they would realize that the only ones in a win/win situation is CT. But, I've already given up on any expectations of strategic thinking from the Sovs part. At this point, CT is safe with both sides because both sides are under the impression that CT is not their enemy. CT managed successfully to put the Floaters against the Sovs, and completelly disappearing from everyone's radar.

"RE: Except..."
Posted by true on 08-09-06 at 09:26 PM
You're right, but they can't play both sides successfully beyond this eviction. If they vote out Kaysar, Howie and Janelle won't trust them. Sure, they may not target them right away, but odds are that one of the others wins HOH anyway, and CT is not safe with Marcellas or Chicken George. Once S6 is cut down to two members, they are no longer the biggest threat in the game, in fact, Janelle might be viewed as someone to take to final 2.

If Howie and/or Janelle follow Kaysar out next week, Dani's huge alliance will have to start going after each other, and Erica/George/Marcellas will be lobbying hard for CT to go before they do. Dani will be screwed at that point, as she has an agreement with all of them. CT can only hope that the floaters turn on Dani before they turn on CT.

I think keeping James is a horrible idea for CT in the long run. Janelle and Howie have proved they can be easily manipulated. CT has a chance to break up the biggest schemer and the biggest snake in the house, and if they don't they're morons.


"RE: Except..."
Posted by roxydog on 08-09-06 at 09:46 PM
I am thinking that CT can turn any siuation around into their favor.

"RE: Except..."
Posted by Glass on 08-10-06 at 03:46 AM
I tend to agree with Roxy above.

You make really strong arguments, True. But I still love the idea of this LOD for Chilltown. Now, I admittedly do not have the feeds and do not follow as much as some. But my read of the situation at this point is not that Chilltown as "fooled" the houseguests into thinking that they're not direct threats to them. My sense is that Chilltown is, literally, not a direct threat to anyone period.

I made the same prediction some time last week, and everything has been going almost exactly according to Chilltown's best scenario. More than likely, the next players evicted (unless Chilltown makes a serious move) will be (in no order) James, Kaysar, Janelle, Howie, Danielle, and maybe Marcellas. Will or Boogie will probably be nominated somewhere, but never together, and they will not be evicted because it doesn't make sense to evict them right now. If I was a SOV at this point, I wouldn't be targetting Will at all because CT has been targeting floaters all game. And if I was a floater, I wouldn't be targetting Will at all because the SOVS have been nominating me all game. The reason it doesn't matter who goes this week is because they're all toast anyway, IMO. The whole house would have to get together to evict CT, but I don't see it happening because everybody except Marcellas, George and Erika have WAY bigger problems right now.

Of course, I think it's even more likely that Chilltown will cause some other kind of shift once the targets really start dwindling. Most likely they will take whoever is left at 6 or 7 players and eliminate one floater after another.

And after ALL THAT, let's also not forget that as well as Will is playing right now, in Season 2 he was ten times better by the end when his life was on the line and he was under constant threat. At this point, I have no reason to believe his game won't get ten times stronger Boogie is evicted before he is. So far I am deeply, deeply impressed by Will's gameplay, seems to me he's accomplished the impossible already by causing other people to make serious mistakes, which so far they have ALL been more than willing to make. Who knows what else the Doctor will be capable of.



"RE: Except..."
Posted by JoshInSGV on 08-10-06 at 12:55 PM
I would have to agree with Glass. This is Will's game to lose. As long as he can continue playing both sides against each other, CT can ride smoothly all the way into the Final 5. Janelle, James, Howie, and Danielle are on a collision course with one another. Marcellas and George are the only threats to CT, but even Marcellas can end up on the chopping block courtesy of Janey or Dani. Erika will not go after CT at this time. She's playing the UTR game and has bigger targets on sight. What all of this means is that CT can just sit back and enjoy the carnage. At some point, they will have to step up and start winning comps in order to survive. But, if CT ever find themselves on the block, Boogie will probably be the one evicted. The Evil Dr has everything he needs to win the game. And given all the mistakes made by these so-called all-stars, Will probably is the only who deserves to win.

"RE: Except..."
Posted by Glass on 08-11-06 at 03:30 AM
My sentiment exactly, Josh. I definitely feel that Dr. Will's chances at winning at this point are better than most of the Houseguests. And I agree that Will does have everything he needs and the others are all making mistakes. So when is it time to start predicting a Chilltown victory?