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Original Message
"GIVING YOUR MONEY AWAY IS DUMB"

Posted by Cleveland Guy on 03-30-05 at 01:33 PM
Congrats to R/D and R/A.
They were the only teams smart enough NOT to give money to M/G.

This is a competition, and you know one team is going to be eliminated at the end of this leg (esp. cause the last one was a non-elim).

They have been dealt a fatal blow, and you now hae a step up on them. Why give it away.

On this show Money = Power.

Having more money allows you to pay for quicker transportation, pay people to help you with directions, buy maps, food, etc, etc, etc.

You are also only given a finate amount for each leg. Why sacrifice some of it to another team? Even if it's just a loan, you are lowering your bankroll, and allowing them to increase theirs.

I am sure M/G could have gotten money at the airport, but why make their life easy?


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Messages in this discussion
"RE: GIVING YOUR MONEY AWAY IS DUMB"
Posted by thecontender on 03-30-05 at 02:01 PM
That was a tough decision. This was the reason Ray and Deana got eliminated. KARMA. Ray hating on the old couple and calling them sacrificial lambs. LOL The old lady has more guts and balls than Ray will ever have in two life spans.
I think Rob and Amber should of kicked in 5 bucks but this is the same Rob and Amber that all the other teams hate and have been plotting against since day one. (As it was stated in another thread)
So, their situation is a bit different. I bet no one would of kicked in any money had this been Rob and Amber that were broke.

Hopefully as I have said before, karma does not catch up to Rob and Amber too. But if this happends to them Rob and Amber since they are already famous can find some one that is a fan and get money. I agree unfair advantage. Live with it Being famous has it's pro's and con's.
I am only watching the show because of Rob and Amber. Once they are gone, this will be just another TAR.

I thought you knew.


"RE: GIVING YOUR MONEY AWAY IS DUMB"
Posted by LibraRising on 03-30-05 at 02:03 PM
Oooh, baby, a simultaneous post.


"RE: GIVING YOUR MONEY AWAY IS DUMB"
Posted by LibraRising on 03-30-05 at 02:02 PM
I'll play devil's advocate.

Meredith/Gretchen are the least physical team left out there. If it came down to a foot race at the end, who would you rather be against? Them or Brian/Greg? It might not be a bad idea to give a boost to your weaker competitors in the hopes a stronger competitor gets eliminated by a mistake.

Also, this was the first of several non-elim legs. There but for the grace of God, eh? If you were that unlucky team to come in last on the next non-elim legs, and you made it a point not to help out the team from the last time... I think you see where I'm going.

Lastly, it's a game, but some of us believe in karma. Give and it comes back to you sevenfold. Don't give, and that comes back to you, too. If I were running a race that can at times be based on luck, I wouldn't want to tempt that balance.



"RE: GIVING YOUR MONEY AWAY IS DUMB"
Posted by globespinner on 03-30-05 at 02:12 PM
I agree. For one thing, I think we've found through post-interviews that even though it is a competition, many teams become friends throughout the race. So, when your friend asks for a few bucks, it's probably hard to say no. Also, you may need the return of a favor later on. Also, regarding the taking of the bags and clothes, I'm sure the producers realized that the money taking wasn't really making a huge difference as teams were able to get more pretty easily. So taking belongings seemed like the next step (like, when disciplining kids--you keep adding consequences to the next step). Next season, Phil will probably say, "Give me your money, your clothes and you have to eat this package of Ex-Lax and handcuff your wrists to your ankles. Let's see you get out of that!"

"RE: GIVING YOUR MONEY AWAY IS DUMB"
Posted by Fishercat on 03-30-05 at 03:02 PM
There are some noticeable advantages strategically to giving another team some money in the situation, more in the future than in the present.

A. The team receiving money or supplies owes the supplier. Really, most of the teams could ask M&G for a favor now, and as long as it does not cause the team to lose, the other team would do it, sort of payback.

B. Not giving money can put a target on your back. A yield hasn't come up since Leg 3 of the race, one has to think one will come up soon. M&G don't seem like the vindictive or yield-using (spite) type. However, if M&G are in second to last, and R&A (or if they survived, R&D) were in last, M&G may be more inclined to yield a team who blew them off in a time of need. Conversely, if a team is behind M&G and they gave them money, they may be less likely to yield.

C. The non-elimination leg will return twice (likely) in this race. I know, if I saw a team decline giving a team something after going through such an experience (not only losing cash in a country which does not look laden with cash, but also losing all their supplies/personal possessions), I would be very hesitant to give them something if they came in last. I would also be hesitant to help a team (period) if I knew I wouldn't be repaid by them.

One has to determine whether a few dollars is worth some possible, long-term advantages. R/A are a very strong team at this point in the race (due to extra publicity advantages), and they have already burned some bridges. If they don't feel the need to support another team for the strategic or moral advantages, I can see why they would not do it. There are advantages though and I think I would at least give something. One also has to consider the team they are helping. M&G seem to be well liked, the token old couple, which means that them lasting long is less likely, than, say, Brian and Greg doing the same. That limits some of the advantages, but it also limits the risk of giving them some funds. They last a couple legs and you may get paid back, they lose that leg, your investment had no harm.

U/J gave them some clothing, which surely doesn't hurt them in any direct way but it can help them later on. Obviously, you do not want to overpay a team, but really, the disadvantages are pretty minute unless you run out of money. R/D, who didn't give them money (and who were portrayed as pretty dislikeable people, specifically Ray) were eliminated when they lost to M/G in a physical challenge and were beaten by Brian and Greg, who were put in a huge disadvantage.


"RE: GIVING YOUR MONEY AWAY IS DUMB"
Posted by Cleveland Guy on 03-31-05 at 09:09 AM
I think the point about the yield is wrong.

If I'm in 2nd to last place, and I come upon a yield and I haven't used it yet I'm going to use it. I don't care what team is in last, this is my chance to make sure I can go another round - doesn't matter who is behind me, I want the advantage.

I know you spend a lot of times with other teams, but please tell me - in 7 seasons what long term "alliance" has actually worked out?

This game is all about advantages, and if you have one don't give it up be it money, or the yield, or what not.


"RE: GIVING YOUR MONEY AWAY IS DUMB"
Posted by kvasir79 on 03-31-05 at 04:57 PM
Good thing someone has brought up Yield. I just read on the CBS site that EVERY leg of the race has Yield. Why hasn't anyone used it? Clarification?

"RE: GIVING YOUR MONEY AWAY IS DUMB"
Posted by nailbone on 03-31-05 at 05:31 PM
Interesting. The SeeBS site does say
Each leg of the race has a YIELD point.

Surely, even though a team can only use it once, somebody would have used it on Romber by now.


New from Sigs by Syren!!

Keep lookin' up, cuz that's where it all is. o-


"I could not agree with that statement more..."
Posted by arturbars on 03-30-05 at 03:14 PM
Giving money away to another team is extremly DUMB!!!

I give R/A and R/D teams props for not falling for it,(even though i really dislike Ray and happy that his ignorant, abusive, idiotic, whiny azz is out of the race.)

But let's get back to the money issue. First of all it's a race and a game - why in the world would you help your competition. They are not in any mortal danger - why is all this necessary. It's nobody's fault but old couple's for coming last. They should be extremly happy that they are still in the race. It's the price you have to pay. I would be happy to drop all of my stuff on the spot just to stay in the race, but i would not even dare to get a nerve to around asking other teams for money. Beg from the locals if you must, but don't put other teams in the position where they feel like they have to give you money out of guilt. Bravo to Romber and the azz-hole with his submisive girl for not falling for that!

P.S. - Giving them a clean shirt and shorts to wear is completely different - that i have no problem with if you have close to spare. Money is just to valuable for the game.


"RE: I could not agree with that statement more..."
Posted by Smooth23 on 03-30-05 at 04:07 PM
P.S. - Giving them a clean shirt and shorts to wear is completely different - that i have no problem with if you have close to spare. Money is just to valuable for the game.

Giving them spare clothes is a great idea, I wouldn't want to have to be around people who've been wearing the same clothes for who knows how long.


"The reason Meredith and Gretchen begged from other teams"
Posted by TerriBlue on 03-30-05 at 11:39 PM
may have been because they were in a desperately poor area and they felt ashamed about askign for money in the midst of starving people. Not good racing, but I can see their point.

I don't think giving M&G a few dollars would have been so bad. Firsty, M&G got walloped w/ penalties, so they are not likely to recover too fast. Add the fact that they probably have no chance of beating you in the physical side and finally, that neither R&D or R&A are well liked, this may have sown some good will for them. Ray may have come off as lot less ageist if he'd helped them


"RE: The reason Meredith and Gretchen begged from other teams"
Posted by CantStandToLook on 03-31-05 at 10:23 AM
don't think giving M&G a few dollars would have been so bad. Firsty, M&G got walloped w/ penalties, so they are not likely to recover too fast.

I've to say that this statement is dumb considering what we've already seen. The way I saw the show:

1. They didn't get any money that leg of the race but none of the racers have to pay for plane tickets out of the money they're given for a leg. Don't believe try buying a plane ticket anywhere walk-up and tell me if you can get an international flight for a couple hundred bucks.

2. None of the tasks they had to complete immediately after being stripped of their money seemed to require an overabundance of cash other than maybe gas.

3. It would suck to have to wear the same clothes and not have some of the other tools that might have been in their backpacks, but that could also possibly be an advantage strange as it might seem . Sure, they'll stink but they also wont have to endure the physical strain of the bags either which for certain tasks the racers may be required to carry at all times.

4. This is the most important considering your statement and the fact that it was posted a day AFTER the show aired. With the exception of not having their clothes, they HAVE recovered and weren't even involved in the footrace to determine who went home on tuesday. I give them extreme credit especially considering their age but they're not exactly barely hanging on there.



What if you want to be supportive, but you can't stand listening to people bitch ~Edie


"RE: The reason Meredith and Gretchen begged from other teams"
Posted by TerriBlue on 04-01-05 at 03:10 AM
Just as a courtesy, don't call other people's opinions dumb, okay? It tends to bring out the defensive

Meredith and Gretchen placed well in the bottom half of the leg. They're not bottom feeders, but they're not smoking the competition either. And they needed money for the shuttle and they're out in the middle of freaking nowhere, so even with a few dollars from each team, they would be at significant disadvantage if they came into something that needed money. Added to that, they're in a desert, with no food from their packs and very limited money to buy water. Even in their heyday, M&G never did better than 5th, so with the added disadvantages...


"RE: The reason Meredith and Gretchen begged from other teams"
Posted by CantStandToLook on 04-04-05 at 11:01 AM
Wasn't really trying to trounce your opinion but you say that they're not likely to recover when despite all that was taken from them, they still finished better than two teams. We're down to what six teams and they're still in it. Doesn't appear that they're suffering too much. At least not at this point.

Now in the future that could definitely be a different story, but your statement made them look like they were just hung out there to dry and barely made the cut this last trip when they're right in the thick of it. More so than R/D or the brothers for sure.



What if you want to be supportive but you can't stand listening to people bitch ~Edie


"RE: GIVING YOUR MONEY AWAY IS DUMB"
Posted by nailbone on 03-30-05 at 03:58 PM
Libra gave the only reason it might be smart to help M/G out.

Meredith/Gretchen are the least physical team left out there. If it came down to a foot race at the end, who would you rather be against? Them or Brian/Greg? It might not be a bad idea to give a boost to your weaker competitors in the hopes a stronger competitor gets eliminated by a mistake.

Otherwise, dumb idea. And they don't need to worry about this putting a target on their back for a Yield. There's an aircraft carrier sized target there already, and has been since the beginning.

And we don't know for sure that R & A didn't (or won't) loan them some clothes, just that U & J did.


New from Sigs by Syren!!

Keep lookin' up, cuz that's where it all is. o-


"RE: GIVING YOUR MONEY AWAY IS DUMB"
Posted by kvasir79 on 03-30-05 at 04:20 PM
You know what would make better television than what was already a great episode? Meredith and Gretchen offer the bros a ride in exchange of money.

Not sure hitching a ride with another team is within game rules though.


"RE: GIVING YOUR MONEY AWAY IS DUMB"
Posted by Cygnus X1 on 03-30-05 at 05:47 PM
On this show Money = Power.

And I'm sure Ray happily educated everyone at Loser Lodge about that concept.



"RE: GIVING YOUR MONEY AWAY IS DUMB"
Posted by Wheezy on 03-31-05 at 10:50 AM

I agree.

Romber is not going to help others beat them. And they don't expect anyone else to help them either.


"RE: GIVING YOUR MONEY AWAY IS DUMB"
Posted by Oscirus on 03-31-05 at 11:53 AM
I agree but for different reasons. As is stated Meredith/ Gretchen are a weak team giving them money is like giving it away since there is a good chance of them finishing last anyway.


Thank you for giving me honor in hat form.


"but not as dumb as..."
Posted by Femme on 03-31-05 at 12:18 PM
This is the equivalent of Hershey's asking Nestle for a loan. Stupid.

Giving money to another team? Stupid. As stupid as that is, though, I found it very distasteful, manipulative, and reprehensible of Gretchen and Meredith to even ask their teammates for a dime. Some people - like me, for instance - would help for fear of karma and bad vibes all around. I would have helped if asked, not out of caring, but out of fear. For that reason, I am repulsed by their shameless attempt to extort from their competitors.

Femme

i she be your girlfriend


"RE: but not as dumb as..."
Posted by watermelon on 03-31-05 at 02:54 PM
Are there no Christians in this group? Everyone seems to talk about karma, and wanting to help people so that you can get something back. What happened to just being nice because we are called to "love your neighbour as yourself" and "do unto others as you would have them do unto you".

I agree - I would be a lousy Racer, because I find it hard to separate my beliefs from the game. I would have given M/G a little bit of help because I truly believe it's the right thing to do. I will refrain from judging those who chose not to help because they think it's bad gameplay, but I take offence that players who DO choose to help are labelled as being "stupid". I don't see it as stupidity - just nice-ness.


"RE: but not as dumb as..."
Posted by aaron2kristie on 03-31-05 at 03:14 PM
I agree watermelon

"RE: but not as dumb as..."
Posted by nailbone on 03-31-05 at 03:14 PM
I am a Christian, and I would not have given them any money.

And you can even look at it as cheating to GIVE them money. After all, the penalty for coming in last in that leg was to lose all of your money and stuff, so by giving them money and stuff the other racers are helping them circumvent the rules.


New from Sigs by Syren!!

Keep lookin' up, cuz that's where it all is. o-

A holier-than-thou attitude isn't going to play well here, I can guarantee you.


"RE: but not as dumb as..."
Posted by watermelon on 04-01-05 at 03:33 AM
I'm not trying to be holier-than-thou. That's why I said I wasn't judging those who choose not to give money because they feel it's bad gameplay. That's why I agree that I'd be a lousy Racer coz I find it hard to separate my beliefs from playing the game, and I agree that good gameplay would conflict with these beliefs.

What I'm saying is, if *I* were on the Race and I chose to give money, I would be offended that people would label me as "stupid". And no, I don't look on it as cheating to give them money... the rules doesn't say "you can get money from other racers" obviously, otherwise they would be penalised already - so no, it's not cheating. I don't know why people can't see an act of generosity for what it truly is - just plain and simple nice-ness, not stupid or cheating.


"RE: but not as dumb as..."
Posted by Femme on 03-31-05 at 03:24 PM
I agree - I would be a lousy Racer, because I find it hard to separate my beliefs from the game.

When I went to church, people were allowed to play games. I recall with great fondness a lock-in where we had a Monopoly "play-off" until the wee hours of the morning. No one was allowed to get an eliminated player's properties and assets for free, because, well, that's just not how you play the game.

I also recall another time when we played dodge-ball. I am fairly certain I recall one of the central tenets of Christianity being not to hurt other people, but being pegged with a dodgeball wasn't considered a violation of God's law.

In the context of this game, giving away your money to another team is ridiculous. Christianity should spill over into every aspect of your life, certainly, if you are a devout, practicing Christian, otherwise you are a hypocrite. Okay, while I can buy that logic, I find it really hard to draw a parallel between living a Christian life and competing in a race.

You mean to tell me that your God would cast you out from Heaven if you didn't help a competitor get ahead in a TV game show?

Femme

i she be your girlfriend


"RE: but not as dumb as..."
Posted by bury_those_cockroaches on 03-31-05 at 04:57 PM
Interesting point Femme.
I wonder what would happen if they had reality shows with nothing but Christians. Would the people still act Christ like? Would they play the game but still add the "what would Jesus do" factor into the equation? Would be a nice show to watch.

"RE: but not as dumb as..."
Posted by LibraRising on 03-31-05 at 05:12 PM
We already saw this. It was called Brandon and Nicole. And if I remember correctly, they were raked over the coals for being slightly devious but at the same time wearing their Christianity on their sleeve.

Christians do not, BTW, have a monopoly on morality.


How did we get on this, anyway?


"RE: but not as dumb as..."
Posted by watermelon on 04-01-05 at 03:48 AM
I never saw the Brandon/Nicole series so can't comment.

And I agree - there are lots of GREAT non-Christians around who are more moral than Christians. I'm sorry for starting up this thread, and sorry if I sound like I'm bashing non-Christians or trying to be holier than thou. I was just a bit annoyed that someone's act of generosity was seen as stupidity/trying to buy good karma.

B/G have been shown to pray, so I believe they have some sort of Christian faith. To me, their generosity was just a reflection of their morality, not "playing a stupid game", and I just wanted to point out, that for them, maybe the giving money was about being nice and they should be applauded for it and not vilified as being stupid. And the karma thing... if you're Christian, you don't believe in karma. I was trying to say, maybe they were being generous because that's the Christian thing to do - I don't think they expected something in return.

Am I making better sense now?


"RE: but not as dumb as..."
Posted by nailbone on 04-05-05 at 11:57 AM
maybe the giving money was about being nice and they should be applauded for it and not vilified as being stupid.

But bashing them for doing something stupid is more fun.

And just because they have good intentions and Christian values behiund what they did, doesn't make it less stupid in game terms.


New from Sigs by Syren!!

Keep lookin' up, cuz that's where it all is. o-


"RE: but not as dumb as..."
Posted by BriarRosie on 04-05-05 at 01:50 PM
And just because they have good intentions and Christian values behiund what they did, doesn't make it less stupid in game terms.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!



"Nice" could get you Philiminated.


"RE: but not as dumb as..."
Posted by watermelon on 04-01-05 at 03:40 AM
Obviously you don't know the basic principles of Christian doctrine - you don't get cast out of Heaven for not helping another competitor to get ahead, you get cast out of Heaven for not having faith in Jesus Christ and believing that He died for our salvation. Helping someone else out is just a way of saying, "I believe in Jesus and because I love God, I want to try and live a life like Jesus" - has no actual bearing on getting to Heaven.

Your examples about Monopoly and dodgeball are completely different from TAR. Of course you can't get an eliminated player's property in Monopoly if that's the rules that were set out from the beginning. Of course in sports, you expect to get hurt at times, but it doesn't mean that you broke God's law about trying not to hurt others. (well, that's is if the hurting was accidental and not someone deliberately lobbing the ball at another player) In TAR, the rules are very loose... there's no rule that says "you're not allowed to help another team or give them money". If there is - sure, you need to play by the rules. But as I understand it, the money given to them is theirs to use however they see fit - so if they wanna help another team, go right ahead. Stupid gameplay? Perhaps yes, I agree... but a nice and generous act nonetheless. As said above, I'm not trying to say EVERYONE has to be generous - I just wish that when people ARE generous, others see it for what it is, an act of generosity, and not "stupidity" or "trying to buy good karma". (Well, for some people, they might be trying to buy good karma, but in the case of U/J and B/G, I don't think that was their motive - I think they were truly just being nice. Whether or not they're Christian, doesn't matter... lots of non-Christians are very nice too)


"RE: but not as dumb as..."
Posted by nailbone on 04-05-05 at 12:01 PM
Obviously you don't know the basic principles of Christian doctrine

In another thread, I think I remember you saying that English wasn't your first language, so you may not have a complete grasp on the concept of sarcasm. Cuz that's what Femme was using there.

Stupid gameplay? Perhaps yes, I agree... but a nice and generous act nonetheless.

AH HA!! See, that's the point right there. Nobody is saying that it wasn't a nice and generous act. What we're saying is that it's stupid gameplay. Those two are not mutually exclusive. The Happy Boys stopping at the wreck was a nice, generous act. It was also stupid gameplay.


New from Sigs by Syren!!

Keep lookin' up, cuz that's where it all is. o-


"RE: but not as dumb as..."
Posted by kvasir79 on 03-31-05 at 05:02 PM
Uh oh, i think this racer would have to stop at a church for service on his way to the next clue. OO what about saying grace before downing those four pounds of Argentinian BBQ?

"RE: but not as dumb as..."
Posted by watermelon on 04-01-05 at 03:52 AM
Well, if I was on the Race (and I doubt it coz I'm a goody-two-shoes so would be incredibly boring! Plus, I'm not even American) I'd be ok missing Church but I'd carry my Bible with me so can still pray/read on my own. That's what I do when I travel anyway. Going to Church is not what gets you into Heaven after all... it's your faith and how you live your life in general. But I would absolutely say grace before any of the food challenges! It doesn't take more than a minute anyway.

As Libra said above... this is sooooooooooooo off topic now. I'm sorry once again for coming off as holier-than-thou, but I hope you can all see my point now (see above posts). I really don't wanna say anymore on the topic coz I can see some people were getting irritated, but if you wanna rebutt my statements, I might have to reply to yours too!


"RE: GIVING YOUR MONEY AWAY IS DUMB"
Posted by okaychatt on 03-31-05 at 04:43 PM
<but why make their life easy?

True, and probably smart gameplay.

However, if I were a racer I'd probably donate a small amount, just to salve my own conscience. It's a "there but for the grace of God" thing.

BUT...........if I disliked a team, I could easily say, "Nope. Ain't a gonna do it. Now go away."

Now how's that for a selective practice of the Golden Rule?



Everyone is entitled to my opinion.


"RE: GIVING YOUR MONEY AWAY IS DUMB"
Posted by Jealousy on 04-04-05 at 04:05 PM
I was wondering, how often do other contestants give racers money when they are stripped of funds due to coming in last on a non-elimination leg? I don't think I've seen it often, and the ones that I do remember seeing are primarily when an older team have their money taken from them. Other younger teams always have to go begging from tourists or natives.

Does this happen only because the country that they are in are poor or is it some sort of 'respect' for the elderly that automatically makes people want to donate? Just curious. : )