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Original Message
"What is worse?"
Posted by shakes the clown on 03-30-05 at 11:37 AM
Romber not stopping when there are already 10 people milling around not doing anything and they are in the middle of a friggen race...

OR

The brothers not even bothering to ask Phil how the cameraman they almost killed is doing cause they are to busy hugging each other and crying over how happy they are that they are still in the race?


Phil: "Oh I'm sure you two will be relieved to know that the cameraman is okay"

Brothers: "who?"


So don't take the simple fact that I think Shakes is godlike to mean that I think he isn't an ass. -Samiam 10/12/04

Table of contents
Messages in this discussion
"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by Tahj on 03-30-05 at 12:29 PM
I don't think either one is worse. I'd have to cut the brothers some slack--they had a very, very bad day. They barely escaped getting eliminated. They probably already knew that the cameraman was OK by the time they left the wreck. Lastly, they surely would have asked about the cameraman given enough time. Just because it wasn't the first thing out of their mouths is no reason to condemn them.

I don't fault Romber for not stopping. They seemed to look a little guilty about it at the pit stop when Phil asked them about it.

What I think is worse is Lynn and Alex's moral superiority. All they really wanted was bragging rights and to bash Romber some more. They are obnoxious.


Moves courtesy of Syren

"you don't know that"
Posted by shakes the clown on 03-30-05 at 01:08 PM
> They probably
>already knew that the cameraman
>was OK by the time
>they left the wreck.


..you mean when the guy was laying on the ground with someone balancing his neck for support? Nice try, but no.


>Lastly, they surely would have
>asked about the cameraman given
>enough time.


...you have nothing to base that on.

Just because
>it wasn't the first thing
>out of their mouths is
>no reason to condemn them.

....by first thing do you mean after they rolled around on the ground hugging and laughing and crying about not being eliminated...and only then did Phil have to remind them about the guy they almost killed.


>
>I don't fault Romber for not
>stopping. They seemed to
>look a little guilty about
>it at the pit stop
>when Phil asked them about
>it.


...I disagree, I don't think they looked guilty at all.


>
>What I think is worse is
>Lynn and Alex's moral superiority.
> All they really wanted
>was bragging rights and to
>bash Romber some more.
>They are obnoxious.


...now we finally agree on something.

"RE: you don't know that"
Posted by Tahj on 03-30-05 at 01:35 PM
..you mean when the guy was laying on the ground with someone balancing his neck for support? Nice try, but no.

If they didn't think he was going to be OK, they wouldn't have left. They were thoughtful enough to say a prayer as they were leaving.

...about the guy they almost killed.

You have nothing to base that on.

...I disagree, I don't think they looked guilty at all.

Yes they did.

...now we finally agree on something.

Yup.


Moves courtesy of Syren

"RE: you don't know that"
Posted by aaron2kristie on 03-31-05 at 03:18 PM
I agree with your interpretation of the events Tahj.
"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by iatovttotx78 on 03-30-05 at 04:42 PM
LAST EDITED ON 03-30-05 AT 04:43 PM (EST)

I think the worse thing on last nites episode was Lynn & Alex's unjustified moral superiority.

I was really disgusted with them acting as though they were so virtious. Especially after hearing the numerous racial slurs that came out of their mouths when they got lost in Africa.

It's a race so I can see how not stopping would be justified within the context of the game. Their comments were not justified at all.

The brothers should have asked after the camera man, that should have been the first thing they did. Once they knew he was okay, then they could celebrate not being eliminated from the race.

Romber's Actions, while not something to be proud of, were the least objectionable of the shady things that happened on last nites episode.

~Tim~


Fighting for peace is like fck!ing for virginity.

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by kathliam on 03-30-05 at 09:42 PM
Tim, I agree with you totally. Lynn and Alex are working my last nerve with their attitude. I saw no reason for Rob and Amber to stop, although I do think it was rude for them not to ask if everyone was okay (at least that we saw). But watching Lynn and Alex skipping through the Cultural Center after their comments was a little much.

I don't know if I've told you this, but welcome to the boards. I always enjoy reading what you have to say.

"Thanks"
Posted by iatovttotx78 on 03-30-05 at 11:44 PM
Btw: what do they call you here?

~Tim~


Fighting for peace is like fck!ing for virginity.

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by tvgeek401 on 03-30-05 at 10:34 PM
I agree with you and Tahj about Lynn and Alex. I used to be a huge fan of them, but last night just screamed media whore.
I suppose that Rob is a media whore in his own right because he plays the evil villian, which, admittedly, may not be what he's like IRL.
Oh, who am I kidding? All of these people are media whores. It's why they're on the show in the first place.

But the brothers not asking about the cameraman as soon as they got on the mat didn't strike me as odd. They had had a crappy day.


Handcrafted by RollDdice ignore this space. ignore, ignore, ignore this spaceIcecat is da bomb!
so basically this post accomplishes nothing. I just enjoy stalking Shakes to see what he'll do next. A little crazy, I must admit.

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by bostonrobfan on 04-01-05 at 04:18 PM
>What I think is worse is
>Lynn and Alex's moral superiority.
> All they really wanted
>was bragging rights and to
>bash Romber some more.
>They are obnoxious.


Thank you! Yes, wasn't it sad how quickly the accident became all about how evil Romber are and not about the injured cameradude.

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by fleaismycat on 03-30-05 at 12:43 PM
I suppose it is a redundant question but:

Would anyone be this angry if it had been Gretchen and Meredith or Ron and Kelly who failed to stop? I think that with Rob and Amber there is so much baggage. So many people don't like them because of their actions on survivor. If Rob and Amber were a brand new couple that no one had heard of before would they get the same Monday (or Wednesday) morning quarterbacking of their every move?

Having said that, the brother seemed very emotional at the pit stop and I expected them to ask about the camera guy but I wasn't upset at them when they didn't. They seemed very overwhelmed. They are emotional guys as they demonstrated when the first all girl team was eliminated.

I'm a little nervous about commenting in this thread.

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by kvasir79 on 03-30-05 at 01:23 PM
Well i've never followed Survivor and never seen what they did on that show, so yeah they were a brand new couple in my mind. But gosh I hate them as soon as they start to interfere with other team's game.

People should stop obsessing over the bros for not asking about the cameraman when they hit the mat. Didn't you see one of them said a prayer for the cameraman as soon as they drove away in the replacement vehicle??

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by fleaismycat on 03-30-05 at 01:37 PM
But did you know who they were? Had you heard of them before? Seen media reports on them? All of that can colour your perception.

All the other couples in the race have the advantage of starting with a blank slate. No one really knows if Brian and Greg are nice guys or not. I assume that they are, actually. They seemed caring about the cameraman to me and I didn't mean to infer otherwise.

I am not a fan of Rob and Amber. I do think, objectively, that he should have won Allstars. I think it's hard to divorce the image that has been crafted, by them and for them, from who they really are as people.

I loved Chip and Kim. I mean I was so happy when they won I stood up and cheered. However, they did use the stop racing thing on Colin and Christie (whom I hated). Is that smart playing or bad sportsmanship? Most people seem to say, in the case of Kim and Chip, that it was smart playing. However, if Colin had used it on Kim and Chip I think it would be seen as bad sportsmanship and a sign that he is a bad guy.

I think the perception of the team as people colours how we see their actions and some teams get more benefit of the doubt than others.

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by kvasir79 on 03-30-05 at 04:43 PM
nope, no idea about Romber until the other team and they themselves said they were stars from Survivors on episode one. I never really watched TAR until this season.

As i said, the first time i hated them was from the moment they bribed the security guard in episode one. Then there were no stopping them, they would do it again and again and then acted all innocent and like they were the victim when confronted by other teams.

Don't know who Chip/Kim, Colin/Christie are... sorry.

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by TerriBlue on 03-30-05 at 11:24 PM
I am very disappointed in the brothers for not asking about the cameraman, but I'm hoping that since they all probably received a quick medical check-up before being allowed to drive again, that they knew he wasn't in serious danger.

Team Rob and Amber...what can I say? They weren't obligated to check on the brothers, but some consideration would have been good. They didn't even slow down

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by motormouth on 04-01-05 at 05:39 PM
I have no doubt that while they were waiting for the replacement vehicle they were indeed told how he was doing by the paramedics. Had they thought his life were in dager I can't imagine they would have been able to continue the race much less not inquire immediately upon arrival.

I think it just makes sense that they knew more than we did after the editing.


*WooHoo, I got me a Syren!*

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by Loree on 04-03-05 at 09:53 AM
>
>I loved Chip and Kim. I
>mean I was so happy
>when they won I stood
>up and cheered. However, they
>did use the stop racing
>thing on Colin and Christie
>(whom I hated). Is that
>smart playing or bad sportsmanship?
>Most people seem to say,
>in the case of Kim
>and Chip, that it was
>smart playing. However, if Colin
>had used it on Kim
>and Chip I think it
>would be seen as bad
>sportsmanship and a sign that
>he is a bad guy.
>
>
>I think the perception of the
>team as people colours how
>we see their actions and
>some teams get more benefit
>of the doubt than others.
>

I liked Chip and Kim. But I still didn't like them using the Yield on Colin and Christie. But then I do not like The Yield in the game. I do not think it is fair that racers can make a team stop racing because they are afraid of them for being too strong or good in the race. The whole idea is to be strong racers. You should not be penalized for that. And I think Colin and Christie would have probably won if not for that Yield. I also didn't like that Kim never did a Roadblock. So at least that rule was changed. But I think they also need to change the rule about begging for money. The rule should state that fellow racers can not give money to a team who loses their money for a non-elim last place finish.

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by Robfather on 03-31-05 at 11:35 AM

>People should stop obsessing over the
>bros for not asking about
>the cameraman when they hit
>the mat. Didn't you see
>one of them said a
>prayer for the cameraman as
>soon as they drove away
>in the replacement vehicle??

But they first prayed that they would not be eliminated. That tells me what they were concerned with the most (non-elimination).

While I do think that Rob and Amber could have at least asked, I do not think that it was necessary considering all the people that were already there. What could they have done? Take the high moral road like Lynn and Alex? Maybe get the other teams to like them? I seriously doubt that would ever happen.

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by Tahj on 03-30-05 at 01:38 PM

I'm a little nervous about commenting in this thread.

LMAO! Courage fleaismycat, COURAGE!


Moves courtesy of Syren
Welcome to the boards.

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by fleaismycat on 03-30-05 at 01:47 PM
Thanks.

Bashers is a very passionate place. Lots of strong opinions.

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by thecontender on 03-30-05 at 10:07 PM
Hello fleaismycat Welcome to the forum.
"I'm a little nervous about commenting in this thread."
Nervous? Why because of all the drama? Don't worry about nothin'. You too, have a say so here. It is an open forum. Not everyone will agree with you or see eye to eye with you on certain things. But, where would the fun be in that? Just be you.
I just got here but I did not get a welcome because I began rubbing people the wrong way purposely
I came in strong like bull and with my guns blazing. I was only shooting blanks. You can't shoot real bullets here or else you will get banned.
I did not see survior where rob was in. I seen bits and pieces of it but I guess you are right people hate him because they already think they know him from a show they saw months ago. I am cheering for him to help balance the evil spirits of hatred that are being sent his way Join the fight to end the Rob Haters Inc. LOL

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by aaron2kristie on 03-31-05 at 03:34 PM
Don't feel bad Contender, I didn't get a welcome either. Probably for the same reason as you, I purposefully came on the boards strong with guns blazing. But you know, it's all good! Of course our missions here are different---I fight to keep the Romber Bashing going and you fight to end it. But I say to you good luck on your mission and hopefully you will wish me good luck on mine.

From a newbie to another newbie, hey welcome and let the bickering discussions commence!

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by Tahj on 03-31-05 at 03:42 PM
Welcome to the boards Aaron2kristie and Contender!!!


Moves courtesy of Syren

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by cayugasong on 03-30-05 at 12:58 PM
I'd say the brothers, but I didn't think it was that bad that they didn't jump on the mat and blurt our "how is he" right off the whack. It IS a TV show and they know the ritual.

I had no qualms about Rob & Amber driving by. I think L/A were just pissed that they over-reacted by not only stopping, but *getting out of their vehicle*. Everyone else slowed down and asked out the window. L/A leaped out like they were going to do something.

I'd also propose another one:

OR

Phil taking Meredith's & Gretchen's backpacks on the noneliination leg? Now THAT is harsh! No clean underwear, no toothbrush, no deodorant... yikes!

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by Loree on 04-03-05 at 09:59 AM
LAST EDITED ON 04-03-05 AT 10:01 AM (EST)

>
>I had no qualms about Rob
>& Amber driving by. I
>think L/A were just pissed
>that they over-reacted by not
>only stopping, but *getting out
>of their vehicle*. Everyone else
>slowed down and asked out
>the window. L/A leaped out
>like they were going to
>do something.
>


I bet Lynn and Alex would have driven right by if it had been Romber who had the accident. But I think part of Lynn and Alex's anger was because they stopped and thought the whole race would be temporarily stopped and they would lose no time while the accident was looked after. Then they realized everyone else was going on with the race and they had lost their place. So as usual they blamed Romber. I only hope Alex and Lynn become so obsessed with Romber that they are booted out of the race for not paying attention to their own details. They always spend more time watching what Romber are doing.

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by arturbars on 03-30-05 at 01:18 PM
Frankly speaking, I would not blame either one.

Brothers seemed to be emotional at the end because of the accident and i thought they were really worried about the cameraman. I am sure they would have asked about him as soon as they could - they probabbly just did not know that Phil had that info already. (I actually wonder if Phil knew anything for sure, or if he just tried to culm the situation?)

And unlike many people out there I don't really blame Rob and Amber for not stopping. It is a race. They did look over and saw both brothers ok, and ohter people (including Lynn and Alex) with them. Plus besides the gay couple, nobody else stoped to help - they all just slowed down asked them if they were ok and went on with the race. How is that helping the brothers?

The only racers i do have an issue with are the gay couple - they left Rob and Amber in the middle of the street, when they clearly had room in the van, and then admited that they would not do it to anyone else. Then they take on the role of these saints or mortars at the pit-stop for stoping and staying with the borthers. So, what that you got out and stayed there - how did you help them? You did not! It's nobody's fault that you are stupid - the brothers even told them to go.

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by kvasir79 on 03-30-05 at 01:28 PM
Er.... Romber deserved to be refused on the van. That was totally sweet. I was cheering and applauding. Serves them right for what they did before, stealing other team's cab, conspiring to not other teams off the bus, bribing... Then Rob turned around and had the nerve to say L/A playing it dirty. Hypocrisy i tell ya.

I'm surprise the teams didn't get together earlier to conspire something to get Romber eliminated.

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by arturbars on 03-30-05 at 03:06 PM
Actually they did - since episode one - they were after Rob and Amber (not all the teams, but most of them).

And Rob is not the only hypocrit around there...

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by TerriBlue on 03-31-05 at 01:53 AM
Part of me wonders if that's why Lynn and Alex keep bringing up that Rob and Amber didn't stop. They've probably turned every team on this race against Team Malfoy now. I know someone is going to tell me that everyone was gunning for Team Malfoy from the beginning, but we haven't seen any catty remarks or intentional screwing over by the rest of the teams. We've even seen them cooperating on the bus scheme. So much for that now - Ron in particular will probably look at Team Malfoy disapprovingly. I can just imagine what a POW thinks of people who abandon others in need.

Tactics aside, I still think the rivalry is childish

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 03-31-05 at 07:22 AM
>everyone was gunning for Team Malfoy
>from the beginning

Draco's on the race? How come Draco didn't tell us?

I didn't think these two incidents were all that bad, truly. Rob/Amber didn't have to stop and they were in a race, plus they could see that Lynn/Alex were already there to help the brothers. They knew that the medical staff would be there quite quickly (they have walkie-talkies and radios, etc.). And the brothers were out of breath and just happy to have survived the race once they arrived at the pitstop mat.

The one incident that I thought was the worst of them all was Lynn/Alex's blatantly racist comments about "asking Tupac" and "look for anyone without a gun." That, alone, trumped whatever Rob/Amber or Brian/Greg did.



Scratch and sniff
"Tsk, tsk. Pepe's messing with the newbies again." Spidey, 3/30/05

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by TerriBlue on 03-31-05 at 10:33 AM
Sorry, I dubbed them Team Malfoy, because Rob and Amber are born Slytherins if I'd ever seen a pair.
"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by kvasir79 on 03-31-05 at 12:00 PM
The one incident that I thought was the worst of them all was Lynn/Alex's blatantly racist comments about "asking Tupac" and "look for anyone without a gun."

The one about the gun wasn't racist. Doesn't anyone know Johannesburg has one of the highest crime rate around? Tourists has been reported being mugged and shot there.

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by FesterFan1 on 04-01-05 at 01:16 PM
The one about the gun wasn't racist. Doesn't anyone know Johannesburg has one of the highest crime rate around? Tourists has been reported being mugged and shot there.

Yeah, I'm sure that's what they were referring to. Nevermind that it came right on the heels of a "We're in Compton"-type remark.

Somehow, those two don't seem the sort who'd be up on world crime figures.

Fester

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 04-04-05 at 05:58 AM
I didn't know that about Jo'Burg ... no idea if it's any worse than, let's say, downtown Los Angeles (Lynn/Alex are both from the L.A. area).

But regardless, Lynn and Alex showed their true colours because they clearly had NO IDEA what Jo'Burg was like -- as soon as they arrived in town, they were saying "whew, I'm glad that it's a real city, I thought it was all chickens and camels and whatever." THAT tells us that Lynn and Alex are pretty clueless.

Then to follow their lack of knowledge of Jo'Burg by spewing out that incredibly racist comment about Tupac and guns...



Scratch and sniff
"Tsk, tsk. Pepe's messing with the newbies again." Spidey, 3/30/05

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by nazzWord on 03-30-05 at 09:25 PM
What is worse is when Romber did not wanna give gretchen & meredith money, he said that maybe Gretchen purposely fall. That's just nasty.

3 nasty teams, romber, Lyn&alex , Ray&Deana..(thank god one of them is gone!)

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by anotherkim on 03-31-05 at 00:32 AM
I'm a boken record here, but SARCASM. He was JOKING when he made the comment about Gretchen. He was joking when he called the con artists. It was a joke!

Why should he want to give a competitor money? It is a race?!?!?


"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by trudy on 03-31-05 at 00:44 AM
I think he was joking about G/M too but there is as usual a grain of truth to it. He's got a creative vocab and seems to have a pretty dry sense of humor. G/M are "con artists" in that they have managed so far to get all the other teams to completely underestimate them and because he has pretty good instincts about that kind of stuff he was acknowledging them for that.

Sort of "takes one to know one" comment and I don't think it was meant in a mean way.

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by aaron2kristie on 03-31-05 at 06:04 PM
I think Rob said maybe Meredith pushed Gretchen and laughed as he said it. Joke or no joke, I am pretty sure that is in bad taste to make such a comment. And I think they did give Meredith and Gretchen money, remember he said, something like who wouldn't, he wanted to give them money so he wouldn't have to look at that big cut/scar on her face. Another joke/ no joke (doesn't really matter) made in bad taste.
"I dunno"
Posted by FesterFan1 on 04-01-05 at 01:20 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-01-05 AT 01:20 PM (EST)

I thought it was pretty damn funny, myself. *shrug*

Fester
Nevermind that Gretchen spent the rest of the leg telling jokes about herself regarding her appearance and the incident.

"RE: I dunno"
Posted by ginger on 04-01-05 at 06:22 PM
I think it's even funnier that none of the other guys on the race can figure out that Meredith is the man.



"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by Wheezy on 03-30-05 at 11:07 PM

I'm reading this thread and trying to figure out why everybody's got their panties in a bunch. Are there rules in the game that say you have to be courteous and thoughtful? That you should share your money and clothing with the loser team--what was THAT? That you can't take advantage of another team's reckless driving mistake?

This *is* a game, right? Everybody is a willing participant...nobody's holding them there against their will. And there is a huge prize at stake. If one team prefers to feel sanctimonious instead of winning, they should go for that but they shouldn't expect to earn anybody's pity for their stupidity. Or did I miss the day they declared it a moral game?

Romber made mistakes--they forgot to make quick decisions. But seems to me they turned a little soft since Survivor. Where's the sneaky bastard I grew to adore? I want more crap like that--it's what makes the show interesting.

What. Are you looking at.
of course, what do I know. I don't watch this show.

Wheeze * Everything In Between

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by TerriBlue on 03-30-05 at 11:21 PM
I think the issue here is that people could have been really and truly hurt. There's a lot about what's morally acceptable in a game and when game playing crosses over to affecting real life.

The brothers and the cameraman could have been bleeding internally or seriously injured. None of the teams were morally obligated to check on the people in the accident, but serious injuries aren't a game - it's literally life and death. It's not a question of being sanctimonious, but a question of common decency

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by Wheezy on 03-31-05 at 00:16 AM

How does common decency help the situation? There were already four people standing around doing nothing, not to mention the cameraman from the other car who obviously had no qualms about continuing to film the scene while his friend and coworker lay in the dirt. In real life when a car crash occurs, it only complicates things to have too many people lingering, especially when there's nothing they can do to help.

And my point was also referring to folks watching the show who want to impose all sorts of rules on how someone should behave in situations. The game would be boring if everyone was a decent human being.

What. Are you looking at.

Wheeze * Everything In Between

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by anotherkim on 03-31-05 at 00:35 AM

Since the brothers were up wandering around and talking, I doubt that was a real concern. Plus, what on earth was Rob going to do about it? Pull out a map and bind a wound? Perform surgery with his handy dandy pocket knife?

The cameras were rolling, the crew was milling about. Lynn and Alex were waving everyone on by. There was no crisis. Puhleaze.


"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by TerriBlue on 03-31-05 at 01:59 AM
AnotherKim, if Rob and Amber had said: "There's nothing we can do; the brothers look OK" that would be one thing. They didn't. Their only excuse was: "It's a race." They never even mentioned they knew everyone was OK. Every other racer stopped by to ask if everyone was OK. They could have slowed down at least, but they didn't

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by dirob on 03-31-05 at 07:24 AM
oh puh-leeze!
"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by Drive My Car on 03-31-05 at 09:04 AM
I'm still not clear on why it is Rob and Ambers responsibility to check on any injured person during the race.

Don't the Producers of this show have the responsibilty of taking care of their injured employees?
People seem to be forgetting that this wasn't just any dirt road, while the show is being filmed, it's a film set. The injured cameraman is an employee. He was being given first aid by other members of the production crew.

They sent a new vehicle for the Brothers to continue the race in, doesn't anyone think that medical help was being sent as well?

The camera crew with Rob and Amber kept filming, the camera crew with Lynn and Alex kept filming, and yet Rob was somehow to blame for not stopping for an accident he didn't cause, where there were lots of people available to give aid.

Oh and now that I think about it? Who was filming that accident scene before L & A stopped? Someone was.

And that crap Phil said on the mat? To the Brothers and to Romber? That was scripted for the TV audience.

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by TerriBlue on 03-31-05 at 10:31 AM
Buggy, Rob and Amber had no obligation to stop and help Brian and Greg, but it was just assy of them to do it, and if they want to excuse their behavior by saying it's a race, then fine, but they shouldn't be too surprised if people hate them for it. I see a kid fall flat on his face right in front of me at the grocery store, I have no obligation to help him - he's the parent's responsibility, but I'd better expect some dirty looks if I walk right by him

And of course Phil' response was scripted for the TV audience. All the admiration over the meat quitting was scripted too. Everything the host says is scripted

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by TechNoir on 03-31-05 at 03:49 PM
"assy" ?

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by Dakota on 03-31-05 at 04:12 PM
"assy", I like it. I'm gonna use it.
Charter Member: Club Anti-DAW
"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by Femme on 03-31-05 at 04:30 PM
"Assy" cracks me up.

/wave Dakota

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by TerriBlue on 04-01-05 at 03:25 AM
Use it with my blessing, guys.
"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by Momobing on 04-11-05 at 05:31 AM
Ummmm....

A. I tend to agree with your thoughts on:
"to stop or not to stop?"

B. At the risk of wandering into the realm of T.M.I. (too much information) one of my closest friends has given me the nickname:
"Assy" (although not for the same reasons as your very amusing, clever usage.) ...I think...I hope!

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by motormouth on 04-01-05 at 05:59 PM
I agree with you Terri. While they had no obligation whatsoever to stop, showing any concern would have been nice. No one expects them to stop and jeapordize their game, (except L&A) but compassion is nice also. I have been rooting for Romber and like their game so far, but this disappointed me. I don't think asking, (as they drive by) whether everyone is ok is too much to ask. Even strangers ask if things are alright in these situations.



*WooHoo, I got me a Syren!*

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by momotoo on 03-31-05 at 00:55 AM
My first reaction to Rob not stopping to even ask if anyone was OK was that he lacked basic manners. Even though this was a race, these competitors have been 'together' for at least, what?, 2 weeks ? Surely stopping for a mere few seconds to show concern for someone you have known for 2 weeks was not too much. As what TerriBlue mentioned, it's a question of basic decency.

BUT....

After reading this article on an interview with Debbie (of Debbie and Bianca) by our local reporter, I can understand why Rob did what he did. According to Debbie, R/A never made it a point to mix with the rest of them.

From what we've been shown, R/A have been on their own most parts of the race, never making any real alliance or friendship with anyone (not sure about their friendship with Ray and Deanna, but from the earlier episode where Ray suggested chipping in to pay the driver of the bus to not open the back door, didn't Rob 'cheat' by not contributing his share and keeping it known to Ray and Deanna ? What kinda friendship is that ?).

Rob joined TAR to win a million dollars, on his own (eh Amber ? Well, Amber was there 'cos according to a new TAR rule, a person may not perform more than 6 Roadblocks in the entire race. So, Amber had to be there to do the rest). He didn't care about making friends, making alliances or getting to know the other racers better. So, why start acting all concern and worried when they've been distancing themselves with the rest all these while ?

Who is worse then ? Rob/Amber or the brothers ? I would pick neither. For the brothers, after a footrace like the one last night, to avoid elimination in a race for a million dollars, I thought it was quite natural that the brothers were overjoyed and momentarily forgot about the accident. To me, it was Lynn/Alex. Their craving to be seen as the Good Samaritans on national TV, when obviously there was nothing much they could do, was pathetic.

***************

SHE'S AN AMAZING WOMAN (by Yvonne Kowk, media reporter)
Life! The Straits Times, Singapore, March 31, 2005

You wouldn't like to mess with Amazing Race competitor Debbie Cloyed. One half o the 3rd team to be eliminated from the hit reality TV show's 7th season, the 25-year-old photographer never backed dwon from a confrontation or challenge.

It lead even rival Rob Mariano, 29, to admit grudgingly in the 3rd episode, as he watched Cloyed tuck into 1.8kg of barbecued cows' organs that he himself passed on : "This chick has balls."

But the admiration was not mutual. Asked if she felt that Mariano played the game well, she snorted in disgust and said the Survivor All Stars runner-up was "not particularly brilliant".

She always saw through the construction foreman's "tricks", she added in a phone interview from her home in Los Angeles.

Her team-mate, teacher Bianca Smith, 26, could not make the interview as she was on a Caribbean cruise with ther musician boyfriend.

The two women first crossed swords with Mariano and his partner, Survivor All Stars winner Amber Brkich, 26, in Peru, where part of the 2nd leg of the race was held.

Cloyed called Mariano a liar to his face after he bribed a security guard to keep mum about a faster bus route between the Peruvian cities of Cuzco and Arequipa.

Mariano's fiancee, Brkich, was far more quiet than him, and Cloyed felt that no one got to know her well as the couple made it a point to keep their distance from the rest of the pack.

She is still amazed that Mariano had managed to convince two other teams to take a four-hour penalty in lieu of completing the challenge that required them to eat the cow organs.

"If he tried that trick with me, I would have taken one look at him and said, 'whatever'," she declared. She was the only woman in the race to finish the unappetising spread - in 35 minutes.

"The boys were such wussies. They took four hours to finish and they were throwing up everywhere," she said with disbelief, clearly still worked up by her experience.

Yet, despite sailing through the challenge, Cloyed and her best friend were eliminated in Mendoza, Argentina. They had wasted four hours when they got lost while driving through the Andes.

Cloyed, who is currently dating a musician as well, confessed ruefully to being the stereotypical woman who can't read a map. "We would have aced any challenge, but we are horrible when it comes to directions. That was the only thing we would have flunked out on and we did."

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by nailbone on 03-31-05 at 11:45 AM
confessed ruefully to being the stereotypical woman who can't read a map.

I thought the sterotype was that MEN can't read a map.

I never did like Debbianca. She soulnds to me like the loser who afterwards says "Oh yeah? Well, I coulda won if only..." and then makes a bunch of excuses. Face it, there, Deb. You went home and Rob continued on.


New from Sigs by Syren!!

Keep lookin' up, cuz that's where it all is. o-

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by Femme on 03-31-05 at 12:07 PM
Men don't ask for directions, or so goes the stereotype; I know of no stereotypes about women and maps.

I don't understand why Debbie and Bianca are considered contenders at all. "We were going to be the first all-girl team to win." "They really could have/should have won."

Clearly, if you aren't even focused enough to realize that you are NOT driving into the mountains or focused enough to use your good Spanish-speaking skills to read signs and maps or focused enough to read your clue properly and thouroughly, then you aren't going to last long in a race that dictates you are focused in all those sorts of things.

They are not vicitms of circumstance, poor innocent bystanders with a bit of bad luck at a really bad time. They were quite simply not good enough to compete.

They "deserve" but Rob and Amber don't? Hardly, as evidenced by the fact that they can't even make it a quarter of the way.

(I know all this is horribly off topic, but I cannot stand "We should have/could have won" sentiments, especially when coupled with "and they don't deserve to be there" tripe.)

Femme

i she be your girlfriend

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by nailbone on 03-31-05 at 03:36 PM
LAST EDITED ON 03-31-05 AT 03:37 PM (EST)

(I know all this is horribly off topic, but I cannot stand "We should have/could have won" sentiments, especially when coupled with "and they don't deserve to be there" tripe.)

Right there with ya, Femme. The only ones that "deserve" to win are the ones that actually play the game well enough to win.

And the "shoulda/coulda" nonsense is always followed by a laundry list of excuses.


New from Sigs by Syren!!
Keep lookin' up, cuz that's where it all is. o-

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by TechNoir on 03-31-05 at 03:48 PM
I think the issue here is that people could have been really and truly hurt

I believe those people have an employer who is surely around the edges and who should take responsibility. Why is anyone making the contestants responsible instead of the corporation that the cameraman works for. And claiming "common decency" is just a way of claiming moral superiority.


"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by aaron2kristie on 03-31-05 at 06:23 PM
Hi Terriblue,
I agree with your comments. Just wanted to let you know that even though it looks like this on this thread as everyone pretty much doesn't agree with you, I do agree with you! You are not alone!
"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by TerriBlue on 04-01-05 at 03:28 AM
SUPPORT!!! YES!

*does a little dance of gratitute*

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by anotherkim on 03-31-05 at 00:39 AM

thank you, Wheezy. I've been thinking this all day long. No one is forcing these people to be here and it's not some sort of friendship test. Why in the world should Rob and Amber or Ray and Deana feel obligated to give G/M money? Why would you strengthen another team? The whole point is to beat the other teams. Just because Lynn and Alex, the brothers and POW/Beauty QUeen were too wussy to say "NO!" doesn't mean that the others are somehow required to pony up some money.

It's a game. It's a race. We don't expect football teams to show each other the play book or tell each other the truth on the field. We don't expect them to use nice words or announce which side of the field they're going to pass the ball to. I fail to see why this is any different. How incredibly boring it would be if it was one big lovefest where all the teams were pals.


--i'm a wheezywannabe.

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by TerriBlue on 03-31-05 at 02:05 AM
No one is forcing these people to be here, but I'd keep in mind that I have to cohabit with these people for at least 12 hours to a month more. I know Team Malfoy wasn't well liked before, but there's a difference between feeling dislike and outright hostility. 3 seconds of lowing down vs. 3 weeks of hostility. Hmmmm...

And some of the nice teams have gained pals. John Vito and Jill visit regularly with Kenny, Gerard, Flo and Zach. It's not some sort of friendship test, but why not be nice and gain friends here? It's not the main point, but even if you lose, you get some friends out of it

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by Drive My Car on 03-31-05 at 09:11 AM

but there's a difference between feeling dislike and outright hostility. 3 seconds of lowing down vs. 3 weeks of hostility. Hmmmm...

So if they had stopped at the accident, the other teams would have stopped being hostile towards them? Suddenly L&A would have decided that Rob was a nice guy?

This doesn't make any sense to me at all. Outright hostility is what they have been dealing with from several teams from day one.


"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by TerriBlue on 03-31-05 at 10:37 AM
It doesn't make sense if you think that all the teams were gunning for them from day 1. I don't think that though. Lynn and Alex clearly hate them, but Uchenna and Joyce, Meredith and Gretchen, Brian and Greg and Ron and Kelly haven't been shown having issues with Team Malfoy, and some even went in with him on the bus scheme, which doesn't suggest loathing and hostility. Kelly was shown saying she was glad that the meat-eaters made the earlier flight instead of the 'quitters' but that's Ray and Deana and Meredith and Gretchen as well
"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by Wheezy on 03-31-05 at 10:42 AM

This show is SOOOO not about making friends even a little bit--that's ridiculous. Nobody who competes seriously on a reality show expects to make friends, nor do they feel obligated to do so, nor do they even WANT to. This isn't a gentleman's polo match. I would hazard a guess that Romber have enough friends and perhaps don't need any more.

When there's a crash on Nascar, the other drivers don't stop unless they are forced to. If the TAR production team felt it was so serious, they could have waved the red flag and held everyone in their positions until it was clear how to proceed. But the others should not be penalized for the brothers reckless driving.

What. Are you looking at.
*waves to Kim and Bug* Hey look, I'm watching TAR!

Wheeze * Everything In Between

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by Dakota on 03-31-05 at 11:53 AM
LAST EDITED ON 03-31-05 AT 11:54 AM (EST)

First, I'm a Survivor poster. I rarely post elsewhere. Ergo, I have opinions about Sleeze and his no-brain sidekick, a/k/a Romber.
Contestants are not obligated to be considerate to others or even care if they live or die. It's not about friendship. It's about winning. It's about the money. This is a competition, a race, there's a lot of money at stake. So who cares about anyone else? Why give $5 to a team in trouble? After all, you'll never be in a position to have to ask for help. You'll never get hurt and need someone to help. And if you are? Too bad. It's a race.
TerriBlue, I agree with you. Every other team stopped to ask if everyone was ok. Rob has been scheming since day 1 to stab people in the back. Not just to play to win, not just to play smart and tough, not to be better than the competition. To Rob, half the fun is suckering people. Because of Survivor, the TAR contestants know this. Money, race, competition--none of that changes the kind of person you are. You may like Rob, you may hate Rob, but he is what he is. We have that on tape.
And now that I have that out of my system.....
Charter Member: Club Anti-DAW

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by TerriBlue on 04-01-05 at 04:36 AM
Thank you for your articulate post, Dakota. You are so right when you point out that if all the racers follow Rob's dog eat dog philosophy, he is going to find himself in huge trouble sooner or later, because there are such things as helping out others and alliance on this show, and if he wants to live by the sword, he'd better be ready to die by it. The taxi incident showed him that other teams are more than willing to dish out what he's been serving up and that he's not so happy being on the receiving end. The main reason he won Survivor All Stars is because of the alliances he made and if he's decided that he wants to screw alliances, screw other people and screw however he might come off to others, he'd better not be surprised if he gets some trouble for it
"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by TechNoir on 03-31-05 at 03:53 PM
I'd keep in mind that I have to cohabit with these people for at least 12 hours to a month more

My television has an on/off switch. Doesn't yours?


"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by TerriBlue on 04-01-05 at 03:58 AM
My television has an on/off switch. Doesn't yours? .

Yep, but I don't touch it since I got the TiVo remote.

To explain, I didn't mean that _I'm_ stuck with these people on my TV for 12 weeks, I meant that if I were Rob, I'd keep in mind that I have to eat, sleep and mingle with all my competitors at least every pit stop, meaning staying with them in the same dormitory for 12 hours straight and you have to interact with them for about a month if you end up in the final 3. In other words, Rob's stuck mingling w/ these people for at least 12 hours a week, and no matter how thick Rob's skin is, being the social pariah is no fun, so going out of his way to alienate them is stupid.

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by Wheezy on 04-01-05 at 10:19 AM
You think it's stupid. How many reality TV shows have you been on? Romber have been quite successful being just this sort of thing. Maybe, just maybe, they have a plan.

And again I say, having people like Romber in this race is what makes it interesting. Y'all want everybody to be nice? Great. How incredibly boring that would be. Every TV show, every book you read, every movie you see MUST have a villain or it's fluff. Unsatisfying.

I think we're arguing on different planes. My perspective puts 'interesting' over 'moral'--for this show. I watch the show to see how clever the producers are in finding teams who drive each other crazy, and teams that will push limits of decency--that's a big factor in getting people to watch. I watch the show because it's fascinating to watch what people will do under pressure. And whoever said the bit about teaching her children to be kind, or whatever...since when did this show turn into Mr. Rogers Amazing Race?

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by TerriBlue on 04-01-05 at 12:34 PM
I've been on zero TV games. Romber has been on a total of 4 between the 2 of them and so far, they have won 1 (that we know of) so their record is 1 win 2 losses. However, 'this sort of thing' i.e pissing off your competitors, is not the type of thing that's been successful for them; if Rob hadn't had an alliance with Lex and Kathy, Amber (and Rob later on) would have been a dead duck during Survivor All-Stars. The whole reason Rob LOST Survivor Marqueas is because he alienated too many people and they voted him off without hesitation.

I never asked for this to be the Mr Rogers race and don't want it to be, otherwise we would have never gotten Colin and "My ox is broken!!" I do want the assiness to be below a certain level otherwise I feel like I'm watching a train wreck instead of a TV show *coughJonathancough* I just think Rob's 'screw them all' philosophy is entertaining, but not smart racing. You can benefit from alliances, look at Meredith and Gretchen, and Uchenna and Joyce. According to Insider Videos, Meredith taught U&J some map-reading tricks and U&K paid them back later by donating the clothing. Hell, Rob himself benefitted from alliances in the 2nd episode when he got to reap all the benefits of the bus scheme off of other teams' money. Now they've pi$$ed off several teams and when they know Lynn and Alex are in the background, more than willing to fan the flames and use the hatred. They've had a target on their backs from the beginning, but now Rob's just about inviting other teams to pull out shotguns.

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by anotherkim on 04-02-05 at 11:02 AM
success on a reality show isn't just in winning. Rob didn't win on S4, but he was HUGELY sucessful in creating a persona. He didn't win A.S.S., but if you ask most people that watched it, he should have and that was probably more successful for him in the long run.

I've said it before, Rob isn't stupid when it comes to marketing himself and his persona. They don't have to win this thing to be successful at it. They just have to play it smart and they are. Winning would be nice, but they don't have to have it.

I would personally watch Rob Mariano on any flipping show he did. I enjoy him that much and I don't say that about many DAWs on television.

As for alliances, I would submit that if Rob and Amber offered, just about any team other than Lynn and Alex and the POWs would jump at the chance to hook up with them for a leg.


"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by Dakota on 04-02-05 at 11:21 AM
>>Rob didn't win on S4,
>but he was HUGELY sucessful
>in creating a persona.

So you think this is a "character" he has created for himself. I think this is the person he is.

>As for alliances, I would submit
>that if Rob and Amber
>offered, just about any team
>other than Lynn and Alex
>and the POWs would jump
>at the chance to hook
>up with them for a
>leg.

More than one team this season have stated that they don't trust Rob, and are learning as time passes that R/A are not the people you want to trust or rely on. Some seem to have started out thinking R/A are the team to beat (and I think they are), and may have wanted to hook up with them, but they keep seeing that Rob crosses everyone. Everyone. Even when he teams up with someone, he crosses them. That makes him great for ratings, but not much else.

Charter Member: Club Anti-DAW

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by TerriBlue on 04-03-05 at 03:25 AM
Well, you have a point, but that brings me to a point that I was going to make, but held back on because it isn't really relevant to the RAACCCEE part. But since you brought it up for me, I feel justified now

Rob is obviously a shrewd cookie and he knows how to market himself. I think he has a fairly good shot of doing what other survivors have and using his 15 minutes to land himself a permanent position in another show. So I think that not slowing down was not only plain assy and shortsighted, it was a not so smart move because it made him look bad to the audience. Rob's marketing hook is the bastard with the heart of gold and if he comes off looking like a plain cold-hearted bastard ala Ray or Jonathan, he's going to come off looking bad and losing fans. This may end up being his 'Johnny Fairplay' move - a move that's allowed in the game and is defensible from a strategic sense, but one that others see as so assy that it follows him around like a reeking perfume. How much of a career does Johnny Fairplay have now?

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by anotherkim on 04-03-05 at 09:28 AM
I don't think that Rob and John are even in the same league, but that's just my opinion. I didn't see that many people jumping on the JF fanwagon. I personally wouldn't watch him catch fire. He did seem to be the same kind of person that he played on TV, only more so, and I found him ickey beyond words.

That said, I'm guessing ol' Johnny Fairplay probably still makes more money than he did before did Survivor and probably more than I do, so bully for him.

Ray and Jonathon were abusive to their teammates and signifiant others. I don't think those are even remotely fair comparisons at all, ftr.


"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by true on 04-03-05 at 09:57 AM
I don't think that Rob and John are even in the same league, but that's just my opinion.

This is my opinion as well. Trying to win the race by beating the other teams, and trying to win the race by beating down your partner, are two very different strategies.

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by nailbone on 04-04-05 at 10:51 AM
I didn't see that many people jumping on the JF fanwagon. I personally wouldn't watch him catch fire. He did seem to be the same kind of person that he played on TV, only more so, and I found him ickey beyond words.

Well, we know that Jiffy still to this day can't stand him, so there's that. And lotsa folks, including Jiffy, seem to like Rob.

That said, I'm guessing ol' Johnny Fairplay probably still makes more money than he did before did Survivor and probably more than I do, so bully for him.

JFP is doing just fine for himself with his wrestling manager deal, which is exactly what he wants to be doing in the first place.

Rob has not been abusive to anyone, ever. He's been deceptive, but he's never attacked anyone, verbally or otherwise. And he's been exceptionally friendly to the native folks every place they've been.


New from Sigs by Syren!!
Keep lookin' up, cuz that's where it all is. o-

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by trudy on 04-01-05 at 01:00 PM
I've somehow got the impression that R/A are already being treated like outcasts - in fact I think Amber even said just that. I don't for a minute think that Rob thought L/A would let him in the cab, I think he was hoping the cab driver would make the decision, overruling L/A for the $$. From Rob's POV it was worth a try but I don't think R/A have ever hoped to count on any other teams for anything at all and in return they're probably not dishing out any favors either. As soon as they started the race they were treated like crap by S/P, L/A and who knows who else and I'm sure just from their comments that L/A are knifing them in the back every chance they get and stirring the pot even more. So they are most likely already social pariahs and have been all along no matter how they act that will not change.

Let's face it, Rob could pull someone out of a burning building and he would be mocked for it by L/A.

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by Dakota on 04-02-05 at 08:55 AM
>I've somehow got the impression that
>R/A are already being treated
>like outcasts -

>As soon as they started
>the race they were treated
>like crap by S/P, L/A
>and who knows who else
>and I'm sure just from
>their comments that L/A are
>knifing them in the back
>every chance they get and
>stirring the pot even more.

I seem to remember Rob, in Ep 1, being the one talking about how he was going to screw the competition. The others simply knew what he was like because of his two stints on Survivor.

Charter Member: Club Anti-DAW

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by mikey on 03-31-05 at 11:26 AM
I agree with Shakes and would add one more.

Suppose the roles were reversed -- i.e., suppose Rob was driving like a maniac and injured the cameraman, and the brothers went racing on by to try to finish the leg without delay. What would Lynn and Alex be harping about? That the brothers didn't stop? No, they would say how inconsiderate Rob is for the safety of other people that he drove like a maniac and flipped the car, then continued on the race at the first available opportunity.

Ultimately, I was glad to see the brothers beat out Ray and Deana (even though it eliminated me from the anti-eliminee contest). But it does go to show that ultimately, the difference for Ray and Deana being eliminated or not eliminated in this leg was perhaps 5-10 seconds, and the accident took place at a crucial, determinative part of the race. There is no obligation on the part of a competitor to stop in the middle of the leg to check on competitors -- that is the producers' job. Just as it is the producers' job, in a life or death situation, to do something equiavlent to a yellow flag in auto racing -- tell everyone to stop where they are for a few minutes while we check if the cameraman is okay so no one has to choose between racing and checking on the health of someone. If the producers didn't call a time out, why should Rob and Amber? Just as it is the producers' job to decide that Meredith and Gretchen will have all possessions stripped from them -- the competitors shouldn't be faulted for not alleviating this.

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by Oscirus on 03-31-05 at 11:49 AM
of the two choices that you posed the worse would be Rob not only did he do the act but he enjoyed doing it.

Thank you for giving me honor in hat form.

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by Wheezy on 03-31-05 at 12:01 PM
And I for one enjoyed watching Rob doing it.


What. Are you looking at.
and that's not code for anything

Wheeze * Everything In Between

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by Drive My Car on 03-31-05 at 08:44 PM
Me too!
"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by dirob on 03-31-05 at 11:33 PM
>Me too!

Me three, four, five, six, seven...!

"me, too."
Posted by tvgeek401 on 04-02-05 at 01:17 AM
LAST EDITED ON 04-02-05 AT 01:23 AM (EST)

and I don't even agree with you about Rob.

I wouldn't like him if he had slowed down and, to tell you the truth, I'm not surprised he didn't. Rob is an arse. But that doesn't mean I don't think it was a smart move or that I didn't enjoy seeing it.

I love watching these guys. The villan is more important to a show than the rest of the people.

Plus, it makes these boards a heck of a lot more fun.
not that they weren't fun to begin with.

ETcomment on the giving of money. Personally, I couldn't give a flying hoot about whether a team gives money to the last place team. If they don't, they're playing smart. If they do, they're playing nice.

BTW, I concede on being harsher to Romber about not stopping than I would have about other teams. It isn't just this incident, but a series of incidents, stemming back to Survivor, that make me think Rob is an #####. If they were a new team, without all the baggage, I would be saying it was a smart move. So, for all the people who say all this preconcieved Romber hatred is unjust, please direct your hatred towards me. I'm a big person. I can take it. Hit me with your best shot.


Handcrafted by RollDdice ignore this space. ignore, ignore, ignore this spaceIcecat is da bomb!
Being glad Rob is there doesn't mean I have to like him. No way. You can't make me!

"RE: me, too."
Posted by Drive My Car on 04-02-05 at 01:52 AM

You ARE a big person.
You admit that past perceptions of this team affect how you view their game play now.
Nothing wrong with that, and refreshing to see someone who admits it.

And I agree that every show needs a villan. In fact, I think if a show doesn't have one on it's own, that the post production staff will edit one in.

Good stories have both good guys and bad guys, antaganists and protaganists. Without both, there is no drama.

This season is all about the drama.


"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by Femme on 03-31-05 at 11:59 AM
LAST EDITED ON 03-31-05 AT 12:11 PM (EST)

I think it was cerainly tacky and thoughtless to speed past the site of an accident without any pause for concern. Making friends is certainly not a required (and in my opinion, a preferred) part of this race. I especially think it would have been shocking to see Rob and Amber sucking up to another team after the reception they have gotten from the other snarky (and not in a good way) teams.

However, I think it really shows your character when someone is in a lifethreatening position, or has been severly injured, and you cannot even muster up an, "everyone okay over there." If the cameraman had died, or one of the contestants had been fatally injured, how important is the race at that point? There is a moment, even in a race, even in a contest, when human beings and the welfare of others trumps anything else. The fact that we have concern for others, and that death, dying and injury are not overlooked as insignificant are one of the reasons that people can even come together into a society to begin with.

Simply saying, I don't necessarily fault Rob and Amber for not stopping, but being tremendous fans of theirs, I am a little bothered that they couldn't at least slow down.

My husband and I both agree, you are just 'in the way' unless you are the first on the scene with the means to alert medical professionals, officials, or whomever would be appropriate to the matter, or unless you were skilled in medical treatment and first aid.

In that vein, we both faulted Lynn and Alex for elevating danger at the accident. Unless you are able to assist, you do not stop. You present a danger to yourself (how ironic it would have been if, in stopping and getting out of their cars, Lynn and Alex caused a distraction that lead to yet another accident) and you present a danger to the people you are gawking at gathering gossip about making sure are okay.

I also do not fault the brothers for not immediately asking about the cameraman, either. /shrug I think they showed enough remorse and anxiety to truly believe that they weren't heartless about the matter.

I do, however, point squarely at them in assigning ANY real blame in this whole event. The one brother even said that he was sliding around. He knew it wasn't safe, yet he risked the life of his brother, the cameraman, and potentially others who were following too closely.

Edited to explain not required nor (in my opinion) preferred - it seemed really incoherent, that bit.

Femme

i she be your girlfriend

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by aaron2kristie on 03-31-05 at 06:21 PM
"However, I think it really shows your character when someone is in a lifethreatening position, or has been severly injured, and you cannot even muster up an, "everyone okay over there." If the cameraman had died, or one of the contestants had been fatally injured, how important is the race at that point? There is a moment, even in a race, even in a contest, when human beings and the welfare of others trumps anything else. The fact that we have concern for others, and that death, dying and injury are not overlooked as insignificant are one of the reasons that people can even come together into a society to begin with."

Right on. But be forewarned, besides yourself Terriblue, and myself, pretty much else who has posted on this particular thread DOES NOT agree with this sentiment you have posted above!

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by momotoo on 03-31-05 at 10:35 PM
>"However, I think it really shows
>your character when someone is
>in a lifethreatening position, or
>has been severly injured, and
>you cannot even muster up
>an, "everyone okay over there."
>If the cameraman had died,
>or one of the contestants
>had been fatally injured, how
>important is the race at
>that point? There is a
>moment, even in a race,
>even in a contest, when
>human beings and the welfare
>of others trumps anything else.
>The fact that we have
>concern for others, and that
>death, dying and injury are
>not overlooked as insignificant are
>one of the reasons that
>people can even come together
>into a society to begin
>with."
>
>Right on. But be forewarned, besides
>yourself Terriblue, and myself, pretty
>much else who has posted
>on this particular thread DOES
>NOT agree with this sentiment
>you have posted above!

(hands raised up high)..I'm with you guys too. Though I do not fault Rob for what he did (or didn't do), I still feel it's only human nature to show, even a little, care/kindness in a situation where somebody you know may be hurt or in trouble.

The Chinese has a saying that a "human being's basic/natural/instinctive nature is that of kindness" (ren xing ben shan...for those who read hanyu). Rob just showed us all that he either ain't got any in him or that he's was really, deliberately being not-nice...and that accident was truly not an appropriate one to pick to be not-nice, if you know what I mean.

(Off topic a little -I have two young kids. And I am constantly striving to teach/show them to have a good heart, be kind, show care, concern, be courteous, polite, show respect, etc, in any situation, to anyone. The success of a people-to-people relationship largely depends on those qualities. I'll be terribly disappointed if either of them grows up to behave like how Rob did in that accident)

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by bury_those_cockroaches on 03-31-05 at 06:29 PM
It has become very obvious and clear to me that Rob and Amber are in a race.
I guess they are the only team that know this is race.
If the rules do not indicate anything about stopping, why stop?
We should be beating up and bashing on the brothers, not on Rob and Amber. It was the brothers that were driving like mad men. If you wreck due to your own stupity/carelessness and $ One Million Dollars is on the line, well guess what buddy you put yourself in that situation. Don't blame others for your own misfortunes and try to make other people feel guilty along the way.

This is a race.

Run ROMBER RUN and don't stop or look back.

Let us look at this way. Let us say this was the last leg period. Who ever gets to the finish line first, wins the $One Million Dollars. Do you think any one would of slowed down? Let alone stop? I think not. Would you? I know I would not.

They are not racing for peanuts here people.

You see folks, it all boils down to this. Rob and Amber got money now. They know what it feels like. Why do you think they are so layed back now? Money does buy happiness and plenty of it. Any one that tells you different is either lying of doesnt have any.

Things that make you go hmmmmmm????


"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by trudy on 03-31-05 at 06:36 PM
"We should be beating up and bashing on the brothers, not on Rob and Amber. It was the brothers that were driving like mad men. If you wreck due to your own stupity/carelessness and $ One Million Dollars is on the line, well guess what buddy you put yourself in that situation. Don't blame others for your own misfortunes and try to make other people feel guilty along the way."

Bravo, I've been waiting for someone to mention this because, let's face it, love 'em or not, B/G messed up.

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by Femme on 03-31-05 at 07:59 PM
Well, heck. I mentioned it.

Femme

i she be your girlfriend

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by trudy on 03-31-05 at 10:48 PM
You did and I missed it. Bravo to Femme!
"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by TerriBlue on 04-01-05 at 03:37 AM
If you rewatch, the brothers never ever tried to guilt anyone or blame others for the wreck. They said they had an accident, and even told Lynn and Alex to go because there was a race on. They waved on all the cars that stopped. Why be hard on the brothers, who acted in the best way possible? And they weren't swerving or doging - you heard them say the car was hard to handle on the sand and then they crashed. The producers must have agreed, because they reinforced the "replacement if vehicle dies *through no fault of your own*" terms

As for money being the end all and be all, I think Rob and Amber know well that money isn't everything, otherwise, they would have gone the easy route to big $$$ and let Amber pose for Playboy.

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by nailbone on 04-02-05 at 11:10 AM
They said they had an accident, and even told Lynn and Alex to go because there was a race on.

And did they? No, because they are idiots and DAWs who wanted to put on their little hand-wringing act for the cameras. And the fact that it gave them more ammo for attacking Romber was even better for them.

Idiots.


New from Sigs by Syren!!
Keep lookin' up, cuz that's where it all is. o-

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by shanana banana on 03-31-05 at 07:09 PM
The thing is, we'll never really know who did what exactly because of show editing.

I don't fault Romber for not stopping. It was obvious both brothers were not injured. But a shout-out of "everybody okay?" wouldn't have been a lot to ask. It was a bit rude, but not the worst thing ever. I don't fault them for not pulling over. Nobody else did either, except for drama boys Lynn and Alex. Everybody else just did a drive-by shout-out as well.

I noticed right away the brothers didn't ask about the camera guy which I found odd and a bit selfish. Sure, I was glad to see them stay in the race too, but the first thing out of my mouth after hugging and being happy was, "how's the cameraman?" Not waiting for Phil to bring it up.

Lynn and Alex are just searching for ways to bash Romber because they secretly want to be them -- two big giant media whores. I bet after the race is over they're fawning all over them at the reunion show.

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by kathliam on 03-31-05 at 07:15 PM
Lynn and Alex are just searching for ways to bash Romber because they secretly want to be them -- two big giant media whores.

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner.

"RE: What is worse?"
Posted by Dakota on 03-31-05 at 11:17 PM
>Lynn and Alex are just searching
>for ways to bash Romber
>because they secretly want to
>be them --

...and I thought Romber wanted to be me!

Charter Member: Club Anti-DAW

"neither"
Posted by true on 04-01-05 at 09:52 AM
Rob and Amber clearly knew that nobody was seriously injured. They did say that they wouldn't want anyone to get hurt. It was clear from the Fast Forward challenge, and common sense would indicatate, that the camera people have radios to communicate with producers/racers. By the time R/A arrived on the scene, I'm willing to bet that they already had a report on the situation, and found no need to stop. For all I know, they DID yell out to the crash site, but it made better TV not to show it.

Same goes for the brothers. By the time they got to the pit stop, I believe they already knew the status of the camera man who was injured. How could they not know? Phil only mentioned it to let the TV AUDIENCE know that he was ok.

"RE: neither"
Posted by nailbone on 04-01-05 at 12:59 PM
Dangit, true! There you go tossing logic into this argument!!!




New from Sigs by Syren!!
Keep lookin' up, cuz that's where it all is. o-

"RE: neither"
Posted by Dakota on 04-01-05 at 01:44 PM
>Rob and Amber clearly knew that
>nobody was seriously injured.
>They did say that they
>wouldn't want anyone to get
>hurt. It was clear
>from the Fast Forward challenge,
>and common sense would indicatate,
>that the camera people have
>radios to communicate with producers/racers.
> By the time R/A
>arrived on the scene, I'm
>willing to bet that they
>already had a report on
>the situation, and found no
>need to stop. For
>all I know, they DID
>yell out to the crash
>site, but it made better
>TV not to show it.

Well, no, Romber were surprised when they came upon the crash site and if they had yelled out to see if everyone was ok, Phil wouldn't have gotten away with pushing that button when they arrived on the matt. Lynn and Alex also mentioned it and L/A were there as other teams, including Romber, passed by. The evidence is against Romber.

Charter Member: Club Anti-DAW

"More Evidence"
Posted by mikey on 04-01-05 at 02:30 PM
But wasn't there a camera going from Lynn and Alex's cameraman when Rob & Amber arrived on the scene chronicling Lynn and Alex's disgust? So Rob & Amber drive by the scene and someone is filming it, doesn't that suggest that they already have one excess body not needed for immediate rescue?
"RE: More Evidence"
Posted by true on 04-01-05 at 04:06 PM
Why yes, I think it does. And my point still stands that besides the group of people already milling around the scene, that all the camera operators would have been made aware of the situation by the time that Romber passed.

The car flipped, everyone got out of the car, help was called, Lynn and Alex arrived, parked, and were standing around doing nothing, when Romber approached the scene. They KNEW nobody needed their help, so they didn't stop.

I also maintain that the Brothers were well aware that their camera man was ok, when they reached the mat. There are tons of cameral and producer types all along the route, and there is no way that either team was not aware of what was happening.

Phil questioned ROmber and the brothers to create drama for the audience, that is it. I'm sure that if Lynn and Alex hadn't whined about Romber not stopping, it wouldn't have even been brought up. But guess what? They're telling a story of how it's Romber against the others, and this incident just helped them tell the story. It's good for ratings. Rob is good for ratings. All this debate is good for ratings, and all that matters is ratings. To think otherwise is just plain dumb.

"RE: More Evidence"
Posted by Drive My Car on 04-02-05 at 01:04 AM
Again, I am finding you brilliant! ( even though , I'm sure I said something similar around here somewhere)

But this is just WRONG

Lynn and Alex arrived, parked, and were standing around doing nothing,

Lynn and Alex weren't doing "nothing", they were very busy, fretting, hand flapping, MeOhMying and posing for the cameras.
I would hardly call this "doing nothing".
Drama is hard work.

"Better evidence."
Posted by true on 04-02-05 at 00:21 AM
See this post for a more accurate explaination, from someone who knows how TAR works.

"RE: Better evidence."
Posted by trudy on 04-02-05 at 02:15 AM
LAST EDITED ON 04-02-05 AT 02:16 AM (EST)

I agree. I'd also like to pose the question - if L/A hadn't made such a big drama of this would it really BE such a big deal? Let's pretend for a moment every team EXCEPT L/A just zoomed by, or any other team - say K/R- was the only one who stopped would there be this big drama scene and all the name calling? I finally broke down and watched the mat chat with L/A. I personally found it sickening. I wonder how much longer it will be before the other (sane and mature) teams just turn on L/A for their annoying antics. I also found it interesting that R/A were pretty much left out of the mat chat thing. It was all G/M and L/A with a few passing comments from B/G and R/K. Wouldn't you think that since B/G actually were IN the accident there would be more chatter about it there instead of listening to the repetitive harping of the Bobsey Twins? The whole situation afterwards is just so much editing and nothing else of real substance.

OMH did I just say "real substance" in a forum about a game show? Shoot me now.

ETA spelling oops

"RE: Better evidence."
Posted by Dakota on 04-02-05 at 11:38 AM
While I haven't argued that any players had an obligation to stop, nor will I argue with the drama of L/A, but L/A were first on the site shortly after the accident, saw the car had rolled, the camerman was laying on the ground. It may have been L/A's camerman that called for help. We don't know. At this point, L/A probably should've left, knowing help was coming, no one needed CPR or a tourniquet. Due to editing, we don't know how long it actually took for the medical personnel to get there, but it seemed to be a few minutes. (If someone had been bleeding profusely or needed CPR, seconds count.) I think most who argue against Rob simply feel, like I do, that Rob's true colors were showing in this incident. They players certainly know that medical help is close, but while every other team asked if things were ok, Rob simply drove by. Showing some basic human concern for people you've spent time with, gotten to know, seemed to be the natural thing to do for everyone but Rob.
Charter Member: Club Anti-DAW
"RE: Better evidence."
Posted by true on 04-02-05 at 12:16 PM
Did you read the link I posted? There were helicopters and "chase" cars with medical personnel following every team. There was no reason, other than to BE NICE for Romber to stop. Now, if you think they aren't nice, that's fine.

Since TAR is actually a race, I'd rather be smart than nice, especially when it's been proven that nothing more than "basic human concern" was lacking.

Honestly, I just don't get the big beef against Romber. This is a competition for 1 million dollars, not a show about teaching moral values. If I wanted lessons in moral superiority, I'd be watching something else.

"True is brilliant!"
Posted by geg6 on 04-02-05 at 12:38 PM
I'll just say ditto to everything in your post. Succinct and full of common sense.


I'm such a slut for the blues.
IMHO, the Romber bashing is just jealousy. I have met both of them (and know Amber's family well) and, despite their TV personas, they are nice people. They're only playing characters on TV, folks.

"RE: Better evidence."
Posted by Dakota on 04-02-05 at 06:17 PM
Yes, I read your post. I also watched the show. And as I stated in my post, L/A got there BEFORE the helicopters and chase cars following these people. And it seemed it took several minutes at least for the medical people you refer to to get there. This is not a show about morals or moral superiority. But we do get to see what these people are like. And isn't that why we love reality TV? The people? Love 'em or hate 'em, that's why we watch. This is also the Basher boards. Where people love to bash the contestants. Some get bashed more than others. I don't get why there are so many people who feel strongly about defending Rob, arguing on his behalf, making excuses for him, and getting angry with those who bash him.
Charter Member: Club Anti-DAW
"RE: Better evidence."
Posted by true on 04-02-05 at 06:58 PM
Yes, I read your post.

It wasn't *my* post, it was a link to a post by dirob, a former employee on TAR. So, I guess you answered my question. You can ignore the facts of the situation all you want, but I'd rather go with what is known to be true.

L/A got there BEFORE the helicopters and chase cars following these people.

Maybe, maybe not. I don't think that point was ever shown, but I guess I might have missed it. It looked like there were a few other people on the scene when L/A were there, but maybe they ALL came from the brothers car. (but I doubt it)

And it seemed it took several minutes at least for the medical people you refer to to get there.

Well, it "seemed" to me that it took several minutes for Rob and Amber to pass by, but I have no idea how long it took for all those other people to get there. I do know they arrived *before* R/A, since I saw people tending to the injured employee when R/A arrived.

This is not a show about morals or moral superiority.

I couldn't agree more. It sure seems as though some people think it is. How else do you explain all the "bashing" of R/A for being less than human in their response to the accident?

But we do get to see what these people are like.

Yes, but I also think it's dangerous to think we know it all about someone from what is shown on an edited TV program. Sure, you can form all the opinions you want, but that doesn't mean they're accurate.

This is also the Basher boards.

My bad. I thought this was the morally superior board.

I don't get why there are so many people who feel strongly about defending Rob, arguing on his behalf, making excuses for him, and getting angry with those who bash him.

Personally, for me, I find a lot of the Romber bashing to be lacking any true substance. There are things to bash them for, lots of them, but the particular incident we're discussing in this thread is not one of them. (again, this is proven by the link to dirob's post, that is being largly ignored by people who are arguing that Rob was so evil for not stopping.)

"RE: Better evidence."
Posted by Dakota on 04-02-05 at 07:48 PM
>Yes, I read your post.
>
>It wasn't *my* post, it was
>a link to a post
>by dirob, a former employee
>on TAR. So, I
>guess you answered my question.
> You can ignore the
>facts of the situation all
>you want, but I'd
>rather go with what is
>known to be true.

I read your post and the link that was part of your post. I'm not ignoring the facts. I'm stating them as seen on tv. The statements in the link you posted don't change that.

>L/A got there BEFORE the helicopters
>and chase cars following these
>people.
>Maybe, maybe not. I don't
>think that point was ever
>shown, but I guess I
>might have missed it.
>It looked like there were
>a few other people on
>the scene when L/A were
>there, but maybe they ALL
>came from the brothers car.
>(but I doubt it)
>
>And it seemed it took several
>minutes at least for the
>medical people you refer to
>to get there.
>
>Well, it "seemed" to me that
>it took several minutes for
>Rob and Amber to pass
>by, but I have no
>idea how long it took
>for all those other people
>to get there. I
>do know they arrived *before*
>R/A, since I saw people
>tending to the injured employee
>when R/A arrived.

That's a point I made. We don't know how much time passed between the accident and L/A's arrival or the arrival of medical personnel. Nor do we know how long it was before R/A passed by.

>This is not a show about
>morals or moral superiority.
>
>I couldn't agree more. It
>sure seems as though some
>people think it is.
>How else do you explain
>all the "bashing" of R/A
>for being less than human
>in their response to the
>accident?

Because lots of people don't like him. And this is TAR Bashers. Where we bash people we don't like.

>But we do get to see
>what these people are like.

>
>Yes, but I also think it's
>dangerous to think we know
>it all about someone from
>what is shown on an
>edited TV program. Sure,
>you can form all the
>opinions you want, but that
>doesn't mean they're accurate.

We've seen Rob on 3 shows now. I don't claim to know everything about him. But character traits and behavior patterns become evident.

>This is also the Basher boards.
>
>My bad. I thought this
>was the morally superior board.
>
> I don't get why there
>are so many people who
>feel strongly about defending Rob,
>arguing on his behalf, making
>excuses for him, and getting
>angry with those who bash
>him.


>Personally, for me, I find a
>lot of the Romber bashing
>to be lacking any true
>substance. There are things
>to bash them for, lots
>of them, but the particular
>incident we're discussing in this
>thread is not one of
>them. (again, this is
>proven by the link to
>dirob's post, that is being
>largly ignored by people who
>are arguing that Rob was
>so evil for not stopping.)

I appreciated your link and the insights into TAR production. But that link doesn't change the events that I saw on tv or Rob's attitudes towards other people which have been consistent through 3 reality shows. Medical personnel being nearby doesn't change the fact that there may have been serious injuries and he didn't care enough to ask. Some think that's ok. Some don't.
Charter Member: Club Anti-DAW

"RE: Better evidence."
Posted by true on 04-03-05 at 09:54 AM
I'm stating them as seen on tv. The statements in the link you posted don't change that.

If you're going to base your opinions simply on what you see on TV, and ignore the facts presented, I can't argue with that kindof logic.

"RE: Better evidence."
Posted by dirob on 04-03-05 at 11:22 AM
very true, true! you can't really argue with these people's logic...if you can call it that.

they're still assuming so many variables which can only be verified by the people who WERE there at the time of the accident. judgement has been passed on an assessment with very little undisputable facts. i was trying to put more facts so that peole can properly analyze and assess before they come to their conclusions. but in this case, i think they're coming in already biased so there's no way logic can ever enter the picture in this discussion.

here's another fact: i was invited to observe the editing of several TAR5 sequences, not only in my country but in others as well during the latter half of the season. so much footage couldn't be used because production personnel accidentally came into the frame or entered the shot. Chase cars aren't miles away from the racers. they are pretty much tailing them at opposite side of the agreed camera angle. but hey i saw signals get crossed and when you thought it was just one car racing through an deserted area, whoops we saw 2 vans, a truck and the helicopter (all TAR personnel and vehicles) all entering this great shot at the same time. too bad cuz it was a shot of the vehicle flying over a small ridge and landing almost flipping over the front. obviously they couldn't use that in the edit.

editing is a wonderful tool in story telling and a mighty weapon in covering up mistakes!

"RE: Better evidence."
Posted by Dakota on 04-03-05 at 12:37 PM
Dirob, the facts of your post, your knowledge, were not ignored. I did not state that Rob's assistance was needed at the scene of the accident. Your experience with TAR clarifies that. However, Rob clearly stated as he passed by that he hoped no one was hurt, but this was a race, he wouldn't stop. This tells me, in spite of the communication tools of the TAR crew, that Rob did not know for sure whether or not anyone was seriously injured. So there is logic and there are facts to support the statement that he did not know how serious the accident had been. I also stated that in spite of the safety measures and medical personnel following the racers, that Lynn and Alex were the first ones on the scene of the accident. There was no one there but the brothers and the cameraman, lying on the ground, when Lynn and Alex arrived. Millions of people saw this on television. You say this might be editing. If medical staff had been there, it would not be logical for them to be standing out of the camera shot when the brothers and cameraman who may have needed their assistance were in the scene. What I did say is that since we don't know how long it took before the TAR medics arrived, assistance could have been required if life-threatening injuries had been sustained. Since Rob saw that others were already at the scene, he was not endangering anyone's life by not stopping. But unlike every other team, he didn't stop to express any concern or inquire whether or not the brothers and their cameraman were all right. It is also logical that if the TAR crew had informed everyone of the accident and status of the brothers and cameraman, the teams would not have expressed surprise upon seeing the accident nor would they have stopped to ask if everyone was ok.
Please don't continue to accuse me of ignoring facts and being illogical because I disagree with you.
Charter Member: Club Anti-DAW
"RE: Better evidence."
Posted by true on 04-03-05 at 01:59 PM
However, Rob clearly stated as he passed by that he hoped no one was hurt, but this was a race, he wouldn't stop. This tells me, in spite of the communication tools of the TAR crew, that Rob did not know for sure whether or not anyone was seriously injured.

I don't think his comment proves any such thing. "Hoping" that no one gets hurt, could easily mean that he doesn't wish anyone harm, not that he doesn't know what that particular situation is. We have no idea what prompted that statement, so I don't think we can assume he knew nothing.

So there is logic and there are facts to support the statement that he did not know how serious the accident had been.

I don't think we can assume that at all.

There was no one there but the brothers and the cameraman, lying on the ground, when Lynn and Alex arrived.

I don't have it on tape, but I could swear that at least one other person was filmed, sitting on the ground with the injured cameraman. There could have been several others around, but out of camera range. As dirob explained above, the shots are edited. Maybe they wanted us to think there weren't a lot of people on the scene, because it made for a better storyline. (Rob is insensitive!)

If medical staff had been there, it would not be logical for them to be standing out of the camera shot when the brothers and cameraman who may have needed their assistance were in the scene.

Why not? I know I saw someone else in the shot, but for all I know, the whole scene was refilmed for dramatic purposes.

But unlike every other team, he didn't stop to express any concern or inquire whether or not the brothers and their cameraman were all right.

Is your whole point that Rob isn't nice? If so, I agree, but I also believe that in this particular case, he was smart, given that it's a race and all.

It is also logical that if the TAR crew had informed everyone of the accident and status of the brothers and cameraman, the teams would not have expressed surprise upon seeing the accident nor would they have stopped to ask if everyone was ok.

I didn't think they seemed all that suprised. Concerned, yes, but surprised, not really. As a racer, even if I heard there had been an accident, I'd still be somewhat surprised to actually see the scene. Also, I beleive that some people would have asked if they were ok, either way.

"RE: Better evidence."
Posted by diamond on 04-03-05 at 03:55 PM
I don't have it on tape, but I could swear that at least one other person was filmed, sitting on the ground with the injured cameraman.

Doesn't each team have a crew of two that follows them around - the camerman and the sound guy? Plus, each team had a bush guide (or whatever they were called), according to what they read from the clue beforehand. So there should have been three people with the brothers in the car. One was definitely sitting on the ground holding the cameraman's head.

I do still have it on tape, so I went back and checked it. Before Lynn and Alex showed up, there were indeed three people (at least) besides the brothers - the cameraman, a woman holding his head, and another man.

Of course, if you think about it, the shots taken "before" L/A get there were probably actually shot by L/A's cameraman, assuming they were the first ones on the scene (because the brothers' camerman was injured and, obviously, not filming). You can tell this because they reuse the same shot before and after L/A show up (where the extra man is jumping up the side of the overturned car).

In any case, right before Rob and Amber show up, there's a low shot of the whole scene, and you can see eight total people (four from each car), seven of whom are not injured. Given the camera angle, it looks like the camera was placed on the ground to keep filming, explaining why the cameraman (the eighth person) would have been in the shot (assuming even more crew-types hadn't gotten there).

Anyway, the summary of all that is that there were at least two non-injured people besides the brothers there when L/A arrived on scene, and at least seven non-injured people there when Rob and Amber drove by.

Geez, I can't believe how much time I just spend looking at that tape. You'd think it was the Zapruder film or something.


By the way, I'm in the true/Kimmah/etc. camp in all this.

"RE: Better evidence."
Posted by dirob on 04-03-05 at 03:27 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-03-05 AT 03:48 PM (EST)

>Dirob, the facts of your post,
>your knowledge, were not ignored.
> I did not state
>that Rob's assistance was needed
>at the scene of the
>accident. Your experience with
>TAR clarifies that.

i apologize because i didn't mean to accuse you of flawed logic or ignoring facts. (i really shouldn't play the logic card cuz i didn't do too well in school with that subject ) so i'll try to do this right and be more specific. btw, i also don't mean to wear my TAR experience like a badge or anything like that. i only wanted to try to stop/help a lot of arguments that were going around in circles.

>However, Rob clearly stated as he
>passed by that he hoped
>no one was hurt, but
>this was a race, he
>wouldn't stop. This tells me,
>in spite of the communication
>tools of the TAR crew,
>that Rob did not know
>for sure whether or not
>anyone was seriously injured.
>So there is logic and
>there are facts to support
>the statement that he did
>not know how serious the
>accident had been.

Ok here is where i'll admit that i will be guilty of faulty assumptions. Rob's statements aired on TV that clearly stated that he wasn't 100% aware of the real situation (serious or not), may have been said before the camera/soundmen were able to relay to him that everything's ok and there was no need to stop (if they did tell him at all). and i also read on another insider post that Rob was being waved by TAR personnel to keep on driving. so my argument here is that we cannot be 100% sure of the actual chronology of statements, dissemination of information and actions.

>I also stated that in spite
>of the safety measures and
>medical personnel following the racers,
>that Lynn and Alex were
>the first ones on the
>scene of the accident.
>There was no one there
>but the brothers and the
>cameraman, lying on the ground,
>when Lynn and Alex arrived.
> Millions of people saw
>this on television. You say
>this might be editing.
>If medical staff had been
>there, it would not be
>logical for them to be
>standing out of the camera
>shot when the brothers and
>cameraman who may have needed
>their assistance were in the
>scene. What I did
>say is that since we
>don't know how long it
>took before the TAR medics
>arrived, assistance could have been
>required if life-threatening injuries had
>been sustained.

I agree that we don't know how long it took for the EMT to get to the accident site and assess the situation to see if anyone needed immediate attention or to ascertain if everyone was ok. you said that lynn and alex were first to arrive on the scene. we don't know that for sure. the EMT following the brothers could've been there way ahead of them with enough time to assess the situation. by the way, medical personnel attending to people are still filmed. but if it is deemed unnecessary later on it will be edited out. to add to that if they have ascertained that everyone would be fine, they will be asked to step out of the shot but always at the ready. that's probably why we only saw the brothers, lynn and alex and the cameraman lying on the lap of who i can only assume to be the soundman who was a woman. don't quote me but on the replay i caught another person running out of frame during the wide shot interior POV from Rob's Humvee as they approached the accident.

TAR5 Trivia: one of the bowling moms suddenly collapsed. EMT people rushed to her and the cameras were still rolling. Doctor said it was from heatstroke and she'd be fine. EMT was asked to step out of frame and cameras continued rolling after she was revived and stood up and continued on. we never saw this in the final edit. it wasn't a life or death situation so i'm guessing the producers probably decided this little bit didn't help with the story telling. the same thing could've happened with the car crash. again i am admiting being guilty of assuming based on little information.

>Since Rob saw that others were
>already at the scene, he
>was not endangering anyone's life
>by not stopping.

So this should be a good thing right? but...

>But unlike every other team, he
>didn't stop to express any
>concern or inquire whether or
>not the brothers and their
>cameraman were all right.

Again that's a personal and subjective thing. it's his prerogative to stop/express concern/inquire or not. i believe he doesn't have to. you and even other Rob fans didn't like the fact that he didn't stop and felt that he should have. well...ok then! i don't know what else to say to that except we have a difference of opinion like 2 normal people i guess?

>It is also logical that
>if the TAR crew had
>informed everyone of the accident
>and status of the brothers
>and cameraman, the teams would
>not have expressed surprise upon
>seeing the accident nor would
>they have stopped to ask
>if everyone was ok.

i don't presume to know what exactly was said over the radio to the cam/sound teams about the accident. like i said, the only ones who can hear it are the crew. otherwise you'll hear the radio chatter recorded along with what the racers are saying and the ambient sound. some cam/sound teams may not have relayed whatever the message was to the racers. if it was relayed or not my guess to what info was broadcasted was to keep moving and not say anything about an accident or to downplay it to prevent causing undue panic from the racers which may also endanger them. (In my head: "There's been an accident involving one of the teams. Inform your drivers to avoid or steer clear to the right of so and so area. Situation is under control...") Again, this is speculation on my part. and even if i knew about an accident, if i saw a humvee turnturtled like that i would be surprised too! Drawing from experience, what i listened to over the TAR headsets were mostly direct short instructions. they always limited the info given out or none at all. i never heard anyone going through detail explaining a situation. kinda similar to a policeman waving a crowd of rubberneckers away, saying "move along move along, nothing to see here, nothing to see, just keep moving..."

>Please don't continue to accuse me
>of ignoring facts and being
>illogical because I disagree with
>you.

again my apologies if you felt that way. i never meant to call you illogical. what i was really trying to say is that it's hard to use logic in this situation given so few facts, very many variables, and believe me, the power of editing! shave a few frames here and there, cut a bit of head, add some tail, rearrange the sequence of clips and you could have a totally different story. and if there is one thing my editing teacher taught me that i remember, there is one thing that editing has total control of- it's the sense of TIME.

"RE: Better evidence."
Posted by Dakota on 04-03-05 at 04:04 PM
>Again that's a personal and subjective
>thing. it's his prerogative
>to stop/express concern/inquire or not.
> i believe he doesn't
>have to. you and
>even other Rob fans didn't
>like the fact that he
>didn't stop and felt that
>he should have. well...ok
>then! i don't know
>what else to say to
>that except we have a
>difference of opinion like 2
>normal people i guess?

Exactly. And your post, Dirob, was excellent. There is a lot of disagreement on this topic. But there seemed to be a point where differing opinions turned into "no facts, no logic, no evidence". There were facts and logic supporting my opinions, in spite of the unknowns that you've pointed out. I think someone even said that people who don't like Rob are jealous of him. IMO, Rob is an a$$. He can be charming, he is smart, but no matter how they edit, I still think he's an a$$. And unlike past seasons of TAR, I'm watching every episode this season because of Romber. Burnett is sitting somewhere saying "cha ching!".
Final note: if you've got any inside info on Survivor, I'd love to hear it! And I might add that I will never understand why people like Richard Hatch or dislike Jenna Morasco.
Charter Member: Club Anti-DAW

"RE: Better evidence."
Posted by anotherkim on 04-03-05 at 06:10 PM

now see, we can agree! I like Jenna! I have no problem with her win over Matthew.
"RE: Better evidence."
Posted by Dakota on 04-03-05 at 07:49 PM
Yea, but don't expect me to trust you if we're ever on a reality show.

Charter Member: Club Anti-DAW

"Hey Dirob!"
Posted by Drive My Car on 04-03-05 at 05:46 PM

Have I told you yet that I love and appreciate all your insight and posts about the game behind the game?
I meant to say it.
So good to have you with us!
I can't imagine how hard it was for you to know stuff , inside stuff, and not be able to post about it.
I am glad to have you with us!
Not only do you know stuff, but you seem to have a fun side too.
Hang out, play with us!

( By the way- Kimmah, used to be Kim. But I am a South Park fan, so I started calling her "Kimmah!" rhymes with Tim-mah! It caught on. So when she calls me Buggah, it doesn't sound like 'bugger' *giggle*)


and True needs to learn that i is after e, sometimes.

"RE: Hey Dirob!"
Posted by true on 04-03-05 at 06:05 PM
FTR, that was a tpyo. I saw it, but was too lazy to edit. In fact, I don't think I'm going to sue the preview feature for the rest of the day.
"RE: Better evidence."
Posted by nailbone on 04-04-05 at 10:54 AM
nothing more than "basic human concern" was lacking.

"basic human concern" for folks that don't particularly care for R&A in the first place.


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