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Thread Number: 932
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Original Message
"If you could reformat---"
Posted by anotherkim on 05-08-04 at 09:37 AM
If you were given the opportunity to make changes to American Idol, what would you do? How would you make American Idol a better show from the viewer's standpoint? From the contestants standpoint?

I don't think they spend enough time on "pop" music. The cheesy theme nights are a huge detraction to me because they are not representative of what the Idol will be doing on the radio after he or she wins.

I've got other ideas, but I'm interested in what y'all think, too.

Miscellaneous Ramblings
--you never know, ol' Simon Fuller might be reading these boards and hire someone .

Table of contents
  • RE: If you could reformat---,StarryLuna, 10:47 AM, 05-08-04
  • RE: If you could reformat---,shedevil, 10:51 AM, 05-08-04
    • RE: If you could reformat---,StarryLuna, 11:42 AM, 05-08-04
      • RE: If you could reformat---,shedevil, 12:31 PM, 05-08-04
        • RE: If you could reformat---,britneyfan04, 10:51 PM, 05-08-04
    • RE: If you could reformat---,bob_chester, 03:18 PM, 05-08-04
  • RE: If you could reformat---,idlegossip, 01:44 PM, 05-08-04
    • Theme Nights,ElroyJetson, 03:29 PM, 05-11-04
  • RE: If you could reformat---,strid333, 03:13 PM, 05-08-04
  • Those people above...,Goooey_Alley, 04:18 PM, 05-08-04
  • RE: If you could reformat---,minkey, 05:02 PM, 05-08-04
  • RE: If you could reformat---,712, 09:44 PM, 05-08-04
    • RE: If you could reformat---,shedevil, 10:56 PM, 05-08-04
  • RE: If you could reformat---,Fishercat, 10:47 PM, 05-08-04
    • RE: If you could reformat---,shedevil, 11:01 PM, 05-08-04
  • RE: If you could reformat---,britneyfan04, 10:49 PM, 05-08-04
  • Oh, and AKim,Fishercat, 10:55 PM, 05-08-04
    • Thank you,anotherkim, 08:55 AM, 05-09-04
  • Judges and Sound,Angelfood, 09:35 AM, 05-09-04
  • RE: If you could reformat---,callalilly3000, 10:36 AM, 05-09-04
  • RE: If you could reformat---,libgirl2, 09:38 PM, 05-09-04
    • RE: If you could reformat---,ginger, 02:53 PM, 05-11-04
  • RE: If you could reformat---,ElroyJetson, 03:23 PM, 05-11-04
    • RE: If you could reformat---,shedevil, 04:14 PM, 05-11-04
  • Voting Changes,zzz, 05:31 PM, 05-11-04
  • RE: If you could reformat---,okaychatt, 07:32 PM, 05-11-04
  • RE: If you could reformat---,theincrediblehugey, 01:07 AM, 05-12-04
  • RE: If you could reformat---,DoodleBug, 01:03 PM, 05-12-04
  • RE: If you could reformat---,MTW1961, 02:40 PM, 05-12-04
Messages in this discussion
"RE: If you could reformat---"
Posted by StarryLuna on 05-08-04 at 10:47 AM
I'd like to hear them sing more original songs. Either songs they actually write or songs that are written specifically for them. After all, they're not going to spend their careers singing Barry Manilow covers (at least, I hope not.) Agree with you Kim on having less theme nights and just focusing on modern pop music.

And for the love of all that is holy, please get rid of the horrid "commercials" the kids are forced to do for their sponsors.


Still scarred from the shower scene.
"No woman ever falls in love with a man unless she has a better opinion of him than he deserves."

"RE: If you could reformat---"
Posted by shedevil on 05-08-04 at 10:51 AM
Hmmm to make it better for the contestant: (I care more what makes it better for me) but...
I'd say get rid of themes all together and let them do whatever songs they want to do from any era. I'd also make the cut off age 18 to make it fair.

For the viewer:
1. only 1 vote per phone number period *if possible no cell phones allowed*

2. vote for who you want gone not who you want to stay

3. lose the cheesy "videos"

4. ban any judges, or any staff of the show from saying who they think should win or who you should vote for

5. only let people through that can sing, and not choose people who are cute when they have flowers behind their ears, or who are "different" and nice but can't sing, in other words talented people who can sing without going flat every time they perform

6. no more "spotlighting" a certain person, fair treatment for all of the contestants *example* telling one that they need to lose weight and not someone else who is fatter (Simon told that Lisa chic she was too big but Ruben won last year) or telling one contestant they screeched or hit a bad note and then telling the person that performs after them they were good (and ignoring the fact that they also went flat and screeched)

7. no more family members of the contestants on the show at all period, not even in the "packages"

8. no more insults from Ryan to Simon it's old and tired and it only makes Ryan look like a jealous 12 year old
That's all I can think of right now.


"RE: If you could reformat---"
Posted by StarryLuna on 05-08-04 at 11:42 AM
*wishing Shedevil produced the show*


"No woman ever falls in love with a man unless she has a better opinion of him than he deserves."

"RE: If you could reformat---"
Posted by shedevil on 05-08-04 at 12:31 PM
Show me where to sign up!


"RE: If you could reformat---"
Posted by britneyfan04 on 05-08-04 at 10:51 PM
Click on log
"RE: If you could reformat---"
Posted by bob_chester on 05-08-04 at 03:18 PM
I agree with most, except I like the vote for the person you like. Way more positive outlook.

It is better to say you were eliminated because America voted for the other contestants more. You just weren't good enough.


Rather then everybody hated you or people voted for you becuase you were a threat to their favorite. Now Get out! Survivor mentality rather then who is liked the most.
Leave the harshnest of the show to the judges.


The controlling of one vote per household would be a little hard to do. It would be good if there was a way for every person could vote just once. (there isn't it) Talking about that how many votes do get text messaged in every week?

Just my thoughts

"RE: If you could reformat---"
Posted by idlegossip on 05-08-04 at 01:44 PM
Well, let's see.......

I think this season they really strained to find enough good people. Not that they weren't there, but the judges kept saying that they were "raising the bar" this year. I wonder if they ever look back at that statement and cringe?

I think that they need to be more open-minded at auditions as a good place to start. They might want to have more people sing 2 songs when they are not sure, instead of arguing between them.

Ryan Seacrest, although I like him, really irritates me with Simon. Simon is a grumpy Brit. It's been said that this is why we don't get British humor a lot of the time, because they seem so darn sarcastic. The fact is, Simon just SAYS it. Just spits it out, with no Paula sugar-coating. It may sound harsh, but in his mind, singers are a dime a dozen, and if you want to remain in the competition (or get in at all), you need to show him potential, something different that makes you stand out from the dime-a-dozens.

I would also like to see less audience "boo-ing". It's gotten so raucus now that half the time, we can't really hear what the judges have to say. And, if Simon says something against ANYBODY, he gets booed and we don't know what it was he really meant. Sometimes his clarifications are right on. For instance, the other night, he told Fantasia that she and LaToya are in a different league. Taken as an insult to Fantasia, it could have meant that she stinks (I know some of you think that, but I love her), when what he meant was that she and LaToya stand apart from the rest.

Paula, Paula, Paula. She's sweet, she's kind, she's kinda just there to stop Simon from talking, right? She tells everyone they're "beautiful". She pours syrup all over the place. I like Paula, but she tells them that they sound great, or that they did wonderfully, etc, when the other 2 totally disagree. She feels that it's hard to hear criticism, and she doesn't want to crush anyone (paraphrased). I dunno. In the audition segment, she seemed to have toughened up a bit, and now she's back to stroking their egos. I'd like to see her stay toughened up some.

Randy needs subtitling so that we have some clue what he's saying most of the time! He tells these kids that he wants more out of them, and then when they change what they were doing, he says, "Whoa, Dog. What was that?"

I truly believe that they ought to listen to Simon, who has been grumping for the third time now that 16 is too young. Start it at 18. They keep saying, "Well, if you think 16 is too young, you have to look at Christina Aguillera, or Britney Spears. They both started out at 16, and they have great careers." WRONG!! They both started out MUCH younger, on the Disney thing. They had years of performing and television before they entered the studios. Besides, how does America look at 24/25 year old LaToya with stepkids and listen to her belt out a song as an experienced singer who is comfortable with a band, and compare her to Diana or Jasmine? How do we, in our usual "paid yer dues" way, tell her that she goes home while Diana, 8 or so years her junior, gets to stay and play Hillary Duff?

LOSE THE THEME NIGHTS THAT ARE OUTDATED! They seem to be putting these theme nights together according to who they can find to come to the show. I heard that Bob Dylan may be interested. HOLY CROW! NO WAY! Can you imagine the kids having to sing DYLAN songs? I suppose the ones who are off-key would benefit, but I think I'd have to take a pass that night. (Things that make ya go, "EWWWWWWWW!") Big band is a joke. They could do a 50's night, a 60's night, a 70's night and an 80's night, or something. But, give them some leverage about what they choose. Add the movie tunes, broadway tunes or whatever, but at least give them enough choices with the "theme" by picking something that has a variety.

VOTING. I don't know what they can do to make a difference there. It seems that no matter what is given to people, they will find a way to take more or abuse it. I saw a news clip about John Stevens' first day back at school. He said, "I would never have gotten as far as I did without all of you here at the school, my friends and my family. Thank you all. I will never forget you." Ummm, Yeah! With the power voting that was going on at the school alone, if Shedevil was able to get in 500 votes for Jen in one night, imagine how many hundreds of thousands got in with about 500 kids and text messages! (He also said he will be talking to teachers about catching up.... wasn't he doing "school" for like 15 hours a week, like Jas and Di?).

I suppose there's more, but I've already written a book. I'll let it go at this point. I like the show, but this season sure hasn't been as exciting as last season at this point.


(We gotta b*tch or we'll explode!)

"Theme Nights"
Posted by ElroyJetson on 05-11-04 at 03:29 PM
They could do a 50's night, a 60's night, a 70's night and an 80's night, or something. But, give them some leverage about what they choose.

Better yet, have another set of telephone numbers each week that allow America to VOTE on next week's theme!


Knows Dylan's music isn't ALL off-key

"RE: If you could reformat---"
Posted by strid333 on 05-08-04 at 03:13 PM
I would somehow lose the middle part of the series (the 32 to 10 part). It is always kinda boring. I'm not sure what they could do to make it better. Even when they made the bands and the audience part of the middle section with this season, it still kinda seemed yawn-worthy.

Oh and I would do something about voting. Like one (or 10 for the people with different opinions within a household) vote per household, or an internet vote. However, if one disables cookies, the internet vote can become as useless as the vote is now.

I would also like to see some of the themes gone. Some are very one-sided for a certain type of person. Gospel naturally sounds good with black people and country naturally sounds good on white people. I'm not trying to be racist or anything but can you think of any really good white gospel singers, and can you think of any popular black country singers?


Three is the perfect number. RMNW!

"Those people above..."
Posted by Goooey_Alley on 05-08-04 at 04:18 PM
said it all!!! I agree most with the minimum age... it should be 18, not 16... they can still do themes but turn these songs to pop... and no one-artist-theme...


my six dif'rent flava

"RE: If you could reformat---"
Posted by minkey on 05-08-04 at 05:02 PM
Here are a few more suggestions:

- Limit the size of the audience. The large audience is distruptive and half the time I can't hear what the judges are saying.

- Lose Randy, or preferably Paula, and get a judge who has real singing credentials to provide legitimate constructive criticism. (FRESH BLOOD!) Most of the criticism leveled as these kids has nothing to do with their voice or if it is about their voice, it just pans or praised it: pitchy, wasn't feelin' it, good job - not great, but good. Not much they can do with that.

- When contestants follow judge recommendations on image or stage presence they should be recognized as following the advice, not made to feel like they've given THEMSELVES a really bad makeover - if the judges don't approve. It happens all the time and is frustrating to watch!

I agree they should be more selective at the auditions and let people sing again if there are questions.

That's all.
Wink

Also, could they tone down that d@mn theme song???

"RE: If you could reformat---"
Posted by 712 on 05-08-04 at 09:44 PM
I don't agree about the whole "more pop" thing... personal preference, I guess. That just sounds so limiting to me, and not really my cup of tea anyway. We already hear Whitney too damn often.

But yes, the themes must change. I like the broader style-themed nights (Motown, Disco, Country, and yes, Big Band) a whole lot better than the artist-themes. Barry Manilow? Gloria Estefan? Billy Joel? Neil Sedaka? No, thanks.
The exception to this, though, is Elton John. Because come on, it's Elton John.


What else? I don't know if I like the way the wildcard works. Two contestants chosen from each of the first four groups, but four chosen from the wildcard group? That means wildcard contestants automatically make up a third of the whole top 12. Maybe it should be three chosen from each of the first four groups, and then two wildcards (one picked by viewers, one by the judges collectively), for a top 14.

That's when I'd whip out my OTHER big twist (okay, I can't take full credit, but I think it's a good idea): duet night. The fourteen contestants pair up and perform together, with one pair being eliminated, leaving us with 12. Then we just continue from there like normal.

And yeah, let Simon speak.


"RE: If you could reformat---"
Posted by shedevil on 05-08-04 at 10:56 PM
I would love to hear some duets, but I don't think I'd like the idea of one pair being eliminated. This is too much to think about on 2 hours of sleep.

"RE: If you could reformat---"
Posted by Fishercat on 05-08-04 at 10:47 PM
A) Replace Paula Abdul with a judge that can
1) Be funny
2) Give a critical opinion on a singer between Simon and Randy length of toughness (If Tarantino isn't horribly busy...)

B) Remove all single artist nights with the following exceptions
1) The artist/group has at least 15-20 hit songs (aka, you could put out a greatest hits album and recognize every song if you listened to pop music in that era. Bands like the Eagles and individual artists such as Elton John and Elvis Presley apply here)
and
2) The artist is relevent to today's market in pop music. Elton John is relevent, Barry Manilow is partially relevent, Gloria Estefan is partially relevent, Donna Summer is not.

C) Remove all themes that do not at least somewhat prepare the winner and runners-up for a musical career. Big Band is acceptable due to the need of getting used to backup, the use for a mix of speed and ballad songs, etc. Disco does very little to prepare a person.

D) Regionalize voting into a points system. The one thing I really liked about World Idol was the voting system. Sectionalize the country into 12 voting groups (by population and area), and give the contests who score the most votes x (say x = 12), second place 11, third place 10, etc. until 12th place gets one. Anyone that knows fantasy baseball (roto) knows what I am talking about. It prevents maniacal regional voters (such as NY for John Stevens and Hawaii for Jasmine/Camille) to go crazy and arguably push these people farther than they should go), which I think it more representative of America.

E) Less covers and more original songs (written by pro songwriters even). Keep the majority to covers that people know and love, but let the true artist shine. I am sure John Stevens would have loved to sing a crooner song tailor to him than Gloria & Nsync

F) Add in a non-elimination week or two. Bad idea on some reality shows, great here. It prolongs the show for the money reasons for Fox, it gives the contestants a much needed break, and it allows us to see oddball genres. I know I am not the only one who would love Rock N' Roll and One Hit Wonder week, but considering it would either not tailor to all singers (RnR) and be too odd (OHW), it doesn't happen.

G) Have one week, when they get down to say 6, have a duet night. Have three pairings, go through a round of songs, then repeat with different pairings. It would be a really good experience for the future

H) Favor singers of a different style. I may be the only one, but I enjoyed having a mix of "diva" types (using the term loosely) in LaToya/Fantasia, the performer types (Diana/George), and the odd ball types (John/Jennifer), but I'd like more diversity. I want less "insert x place finisher that can sing but is a lesser version of LaToya" type singers and more "insert x place finisher that sounds like no one else). Of course, this is due to the people I guess.

I) Enforce the genre extremely strictly. Big Band night was abused this year by Queen and Barbara. Some other choices were questionable in the past too I think.

J) No guest judges. Outside of Quinten, we have Paula clones.

K) One week of actual previously taped public performances. Have all the contestants there to set the scene, but set up each performer with either a guest performance on the concert tour of an established pop artist, or the singing of the National Anthem at a sporting event, or something in a different public domain. Think, Dream Job on ESPN.

L) Move Simon to the middle seat to buffer him around nicer judges and to give him all the time he needs. Stroke the good ego.

M) Encourage more going into the audience, interaction with the fans, let someone in the audience (set them up even) sing a line, like at a real concert

N) Have one night in which the fans vote on a selected list of songs for a person to perform through phone/internet.

That is all I can think of for now

"RE: If you could reformat---"
Posted by shedevil on 05-08-04 at 11:01 PM
You have some good ideas fishercat, I especially like the idea of non-elimination weeks.



"RE: If you could reformat---"
Posted by britneyfan04 on 05-08-04 at 10:49 PM
I think you are right because teenagers do not even no some of those songs and might not vote on them because they did not like that song. They do need to have a POP night or maybe even a rap night New boy,Clay
"Oh, and AKim"
Posted by Fishercat on 05-08-04 at 10:55 PM
Superb topic, got me to think a little which is not exactly common. Very good idea.
"Thank you"
Posted by anotherkim on 05-09-04 at 08:55 AM

I try.

Miscellaneous Ramblings
--excellent ideas so far, peeps!

"Judges and Sound"
Posted by Angelfood on 05-09-04 at 09:35 AM
1. Judges need to hear the singers! How many times have they said that when they watched it the next day it sounded different. Maybe they should wear headphones that plug in Mostly the voice and secondly the band. The band is always too loud on tv, sometimes I can barely hear them.
2. Maybe the judges should be in a different part of the theatre - preferably in a booth or something. To help for hearing singers and removing them from the audience yammering. I know they probably want the audience to feel like part of the show, but its getting ridiculous.
3. I agree with the above that judges should have less opinion and more valuable critique. Paula is no use at all, She could at least comment on personality and stage presence more.

I'll have more later


Great topic, akim!!

"RE: If you could reformat---"
Posted by callalilly3000 on 05-09-04 at 10:36 AM
I have read through all the posts, and everyone has some very great ideas. So I will probaly repeating some of the other suggestions, but here we go:

I would raise the age limit to 18.

Keep the theme nights, just update them, (ie) 80's, 90's, etc.
I would even include a duet type of theme.

Limit the voting to one vote or no more then ten votes per household.

Keep the judges, just loose Paula. She doesn't give any good advice at all. She tries to hard not to hurt their feelings, which in my opionion does not help them at all.

I like the group singing together, they all seem less nervous when they are singing as a group. I pay close attention to their voices.

I would do away with the judges picking the wild cards. On the wild card show, I would let America pick the final four. The judges gave the top 32 by their choice, I think at the semi-finals all the voting needs to be left up to the viewers.

That's about it, not many changes. I kinda like the show the way it is. That's why I keep on watching.


"RE: If you could reformat---"
Posted by libgirl2 on 05-09-04 at 09:38 PM
I have read all the messages and I agree with:

- 18 or older
-Lose the one artist theme nights. Do 50's, 60's etc.... Give the conestants a real chance to shine. None of these kids are going to sing Barry for a career.
-If you must have a theme night (aka Big Band) songs MUST be of the genre. No Queen (do that 70-80's night) or Babs masquerading as Big Band.
-Better guest judges. Quentin was a breathe of fresh air. I want more judges like him... ones that REALLY tell the truth.
-one vote per household or phone. Its not fair if one person gets one vote from 200 people each and another gets 100 votes per 10 people. That is not right!

"RE: If you could reformat---"
Posted by ginger on 05-11-04 at 02:53 PM
If they could just reverse the show v. ads ratio (currently something like 11 minutes show/49 minutes of ads) I would be a happier camper. I also think they have to come up with a different way to present results. The breaking into groups, then top three, then bottom two, etc., always leading to "and we'll find out..................................after this break" is excruciating (but not in a good, entertained-by-suspense way).

I would also like Paula retired and replaced (perhaps Fran Liebowitz would consider the job). The other two balance each other out nicely.


"Any government that would deny a gay man bridal registry is fascist." Margaret Cho

"RE: If you could reformat---"
Posted by ElroyJetson on 05-11-04 at 03:23 PM
Abdul
Tarantino

"RE: If you could reformat---"
Posted by shedevil on 05-11-04 at 04:14 PM
I agree:
Abdul:
Tarantino:


"Voting Changes"
Posted by zzz on 05-11-04 at 05:31 PM
The biggest problem with the voting system is that the phone lines are basically jammed the entire voting period. This potentially distorts the voting because 1,000,000 voting for John Stevens will get though almost as often as 10,000,000 voting for LaToya (I am just making up numbers as an example) because both lines will take close to their maximum capacity in both cases.

The real solution is to only have ONE call-in number. Once a person gets connected, they would press 01 through 12 (adjusted of course as people are eliminated) to vote for their choice. Then, if 10 times as many people call for LaToya than John, they are likely to get through 10 times more often and the vote will be more accurate.

I also think voting people off rather than for favorite would give better results week-to-week (except of course the final two where people would vote for their favorite). This change, however, is less important than the other change I recommended.

"RE: If you could reformat---"
Posted by okaychatt on 05-11-04 at 07:32 PM
ONE show on audition disasters at the beginning. Do not repeat segments of the show on another "new" episode.

Not one single UNCUT, UNCENSORED, AND UNTALENTED show. Who cares?!

PLEASE do a Behind the Scenes at AI that shows rehearsals, funny things that happen, pre-show nerves, etc. Now that would be fun!

A short judges segment on each show that gives specific things contestants can do to improve. "Just doesn't do it for me" is worthless. "Old soul" is worthless. "You're so pretty" is beyond worthless.

"RE: If you could reformat---"
Posted by theincrediblehugey on 05-12-04 at 01:07 AM
1. Better singers.

I refuse to believe that THIS was the best they could get out of 70,000 auditions. They obviously had some kind of wierd adgenda going as they weeded out the contestants.

2. Better music.

If the American Idol is supposed to be a pop singer, then give contestants something contemporary to sing, written by today's hottest composers of pop music. It's OK to do a remake of an old song, as long as it's done in a style appropriate for today's audience.

3. Better back-up music. Better arrangements. Live musicians only.

4. Better sound system/operators.

Why should a band drown out the sound of a singer whose voice is being amplified by a sound system? It's not like they have to sing louder than the band. Someone needs to slide the little volume control upwards. That should take care of the problem. Also, I have never heard so much out of tune singing on any TV program. I suspect they need to work out some issues with the monitors.

5. Better quality CD's and Tour shows.

6. Release the finalists' best performance as a single. Whoever sells the most is declared the winner.


"RE: If you could reformat---"
Posted by DoodleBug on 05-12-04 at 01:03 PM
My main complaint is this show drags on TOO LONG. They show too many auditions and pick too many finalists. They need to go back to a top 10. That is 9 weeks of finalists being eliminated. That's plenty. Then you are back to one judge wild card and one audience wild card.

As for the themes, I don't like the individual artist theme (mainly Gloria Estefan) - I like the more broad based (Motown, Disco, Movies). If you are going to have an individual artist on there, have a song writer theme. Didn't they do Diane Warren songs one year? Elton John and Barry Mannilow would still apply here, but only because they have OODLES of songs to choose from with a more pop feel to them.

I'm tired of Paula and Randy. Their comments are becoming way too predictable. I don't see them helping the contestants at all. I love Simon's straight forwardness. So shush the crowd down so the man can speak! And Ryan.... quit bashing Simon. It's gotten really old.


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"RE: If you could reformat---"
Posted by MTW1961 on 05-12-04 at 02:40 PM
I actually like the cheesy theme nights. I also think the judges should be there to comment and sway voters. Sometimes I think the judges make unfair snarky remarks to some contestants while ignoring the same or similar qualities of other contestants. Example - telling one contestant to lose weight, but giving another contestant a pass on the weight issue.

The biggest change I would like to see is giving the contestants more time for each song so they don't have to butcher the song to fit into the allotted time frame!

More than anything, that is what annoys me, especially when you're down to 6-7 contestants doing one song each. Heck, add an extra 1/2 hour to the first few weeks of the final 12 shows if you have to so that we get more music.


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