Here's my take on all this:

1. Robber (he stole the 'ber' from Amber's name) has added quite a lot of intrigue into the Race. He managed to convince Deana to quit and Ray & Deana in turn managed to convince Meredith to quit. Robber's strategy could have seriously backfired if no other team had taken up his offer to jointly quit and the last two teams (Susan & Patrick and Debbie & Bianca) weren't so far behind. I think the issue here is not who quit, but who did the scheming. A last note: The Boston Red Sox did not quit, not even being a run down in the 8th inning in the 4th game in an 0-3 series. Take off that cap, put on a Yankees cap and roll over, dude! You're a disgrace to the Bosox spirit that rose out of last year's pennant race and world series.

2. Ray & Deana wussed out and took a great risk in succumbing to Robber's advice. They could have well finished last place. What's worse is that they managed to convince Meredith to quit, and had the last two teams not been so far behind, we would have found our dear, would'nt-hurt-a-fly senior citizens out of the race. For shame, Ray!

3. Honestly, I think Meredith was wise to pass up on four pounds of high-cholesterol red meat for his own sake, even if it meant taking the great risk of finishing in last place and being eliminated. Four pounds of meat is unhealthy for anyone, but far more so for someone of Meredith's age. Anyway, I have a notion this will be Meredith and Gretchen's last week (or next to last week) on TAR, so let's give them a break.

Finally, ill deeds have a way of returning back to their perpetrators (perv-a-traitors), and I have a notion it'll cost Am & Robber that 1 mill they're willing to sell their soul to the devil for.

"cahaya" (Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia)

So it's OK for Meredith to "pass up" on eating all that meat, but Rob is a "quitter" and "a disgrace to the Bosox spirit" for doing the same thing.

Right.


New from Sigs by Syren!!

What I hate more than quitters, are quitters who encourage others to quit.

I think the penalty for quitting should be you have to wait until the last team finishes the task. That way you really put yourself in jeopardy if there is a lag between teams (which there really isn't on this season with all the bunching)

LAST EDITED ON 03-16-05 AT 03:53 PM (EST)

What I hate more than quitters, are quitters who encourage others to quit.

But do you hate the quitters that quit because they are encouraged to quit the most?

Cuz they're quitters AND morons.


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As I was watching the show, my very first impression was that the real moron is the guy who came up with the idea of TAR racers eating four pounds of meat in one sitting. This moron should quit his/her job. This roadblock task was, shall we say, in poor taste.

>As I was watching the show,
>my very first impression was
>that the real moron is
>the guy who came up
>with the idea of TAR
>racers eating four pounds of
>meat in one sitting.
>This moron should quit his/her
>job. This roadblock task was,
>shall we say, in poor
>taste.

Now why would someone come up with such an idea (and the producers to even OK it) if it cannot be physically/humanly completed/done ? Ron did it. Brian did it. And so did those who didn't quit. It was a roadblock that the producers knew would take a much longer time to complete than any other types of roadblock (remember the carviar, the fish soup, the egg ?). Now tell me you haven't been to a barbeque outing where you'd just eat and eat and eat in a span of, what, 3 or 4 hours ? I know I can chow down those meats if you give me half a day ! But of course, this was a race, so the trick prolly was to break up the meats into little teeny weeny bite sizes and slowly work them into your tummy...like what Patrick did. Clever.

And didn't Phil say that these meats are considered delicacies or specialties for the locals ? Granted, we were not told if the locals normally eat 4 lbs in one sitting, but I have watched enough food/travel shows to know that there are such huge meals in certain parts of the world.

Good points there about how people can eat a lot over a day-long picnic. Four pounds is equivalent to what you'd find in 16 quarter-pounder burgers. There's a steakhouse I've heard about that offers a 48-oz (3-lb) steak meal for free if you can finish it within an hour. Few people do.

Why I think these food binge roadblocks are in bad taste is simply because many of the contestants end up being physically sick after taking in far more food than what's good for the body. Even too much water can be fatal. The other thing about the food binge roadblock is that they really don't teach the viewer much about the local cousine/fare.

Perhaps some viewers might find it even more exciting to see teams arrive in some place like VietNam, where the cousine could easily include dog, rat, or cockroaches. Let's find more interesting roadblocks, TAR producers!

"cahaya"

<are such huge meals in certain parts of the world

There probably are, but I doubt pails are set out for vomiting.

I guess the producers don't think about the feelings of the Hungarian restaurant owner or the people that prepared their country's delicacies for the racers. I think it's a bit of an insult to have people getting sick on what you consider a delicacy.

I wonder if the people preparing the food realize what is about to happen.

Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

LMAO! Good one nailbone! (and the earlier response too!)

i'll be looking out for your posts from now on when you find contradictions and double-standards!

and as for "quitting"...i'd rather use the term "taking the penalty". there are so many kinds of games where players are still in the game even if they take the penalty.

and TAR is one of them.

> and as for "quitting"...i'd rather use the term "taking the penalty"

There's a double standard right there. ARnutz said it correctly from the beginning, a "quitter" is a quitter. "Penalties" in any sport or game are there to encourage fair play and discourage foul play. One TAR team in particular encourages foul play, even to the extent of encouraging it from other teams. Is this what we want to watch in TAR? This depends on who the viewer is.

"cahaya"

>> and as for "quitting"...i'd rather use the term "taking the penalty"
>
>There's a double standard right there.

Oooooo....k, i'm not sure where the double standard is in my statement. But let me get back to that in a bit.

> ARnutz said it correctly
>from the beginning, a "quitter"
>is a quitter.

I admit that English is my 2nd language so my usual definition or synonym for "Quit" is to "Stop". BUT I also know that there is a negative connotation to the word quit. (Thus all the hate.) Though doesn't quitting ALSO connote a non-continuance of whatever action was stopped? And wouldn't that mean that since the 3 teams who quit shouldn't be in the race anymore? Like if you quit your job, you don't have that job anymore?

Ok ok before you accuse me of splitting hairs, please allow me to get to my other point. I mentioned "taking the penalty" as my way of seeing what happened in the roadblock because that is the result of not doing the task or in Phil's words, "not able to complete the task". The 3 teams decided that they couldn't complete the task thus they take the penalty as a consequence. In other games it's similar. Take poker for example. if you have a bad hand and you don't think you have a chance to win, you fold and the penalty is losing the money that you placed on the table. (Ok, that may have been a really lame analogy but that's the best one i can come up with right now at 5am...)

>"Penalties"
>in any sport or
>game are there to encourage
>fair play and discourage foul
>play. One TAR team
>in particular encourages foul play,
>even to the extent of
>encouraging it from other teams.

Yes, I totally agree with your definition of penalty in the context of sports, games or contests, but i'm not too sure about your definition of foul play. By standard definition, a "foul" (noun) is any action that goes against the written set of rules for that particular sport/game/contest. I'm sure you've been reading the boards and a whole lot of people who openly despise Romber as a person or how he plays have admitted that he was well within the rules. So if he hasn't broken any of the rules, he hasn't commited any fouls. He's playing by the rules and turning them inside and out. He understands them and analyzes them so he has an edge over the other players. Coaches and Quarterbacks in football do this all the time to exploit weaknesses in other teams or to make up for their own shortcomings. So using the rules to your advantage shouldn't be seen as foul play.

As to encouraging other teams to commit foul play-ok let's assume for the moment that you're right and they are using foul play, i disagree. They didn't encourage anyone. I'm lucky enough to have 2 channels air TAR on 2 different timeslots (live in the morning and replays at night) and a cable station that plays the episode 4 times during that day so i've watched the episode more than a couple of times now. Rob never suggested or openly tell Deana or Meredith that they should quit. All he said was "I don't think you can do it". The words "you should quit too" weren't uttered. (I can see a litany of "that part was edited out" coming right at me soon!) What followed next was a discussion of the rules regarding the penalty if you couldn't complete the task. That's when they decided to take the penalty too. (You live in malaysia right? I'm sure you have the AXN channel over there and there'll be replays this coming sunday afternoon and tues night. Check it out.)

Psychological warfare, yes. Encouraging foul play, i don't think so. It's like trash-talking that you see in the NBA, NFL, NHL, hell even in 9-Ball billiard competitions! Again well within the rules and definitely a part of EVERY game in this planet. And that's why they coined the term "Gamesmanship."

> Is this what we
>want to watch in
>TAR? This depends on
>who the viewer is.

And this viewer says, "Hell yeah I wanna watch this on TAR!" It's fun and it puts a smile on my face. Let the gamesmanship begin! And continue!
>
hiya "cahaya"!

Correct on all counts, dirob ('cept that Romber refers both Rob and Amber as a team). And the poker analogy is spot on. Rob folded that particular hand, and lost the four hours, in favor of a better hand (not having to eat that stuff and still not being eliminated).


New from Sigs by Syren!!
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Hiya, dirob,

>I admit that English is my 2nd language so my usual definition or synonym for "Quit" is to "Stop".

See later in this thread, with ARnutz' complete definition!

> Take poker for example. if you have a bad hand and you don't think you have a chance to win, you fold and the penalty is losing the money that you placed on the table. (Ok, that may have been a really lame analogy but that's the best one i can come up with right now at 5am...)

Actually, a pretty good analogy. I do agree that the quit move and strategy to convince other teams to do the same was a gambit (chess strategy) or finesse (bridge strategy) of its own.

I'll give Rob credit for introducing strategy to the game. Combine this with his persuasive skills that could probably talk the weak-minded (including foreign bus drivers and taxi drivers!) into doing just about anything he asks. My gripe is that I think he is being manipulative to the extent that goes beyond what I'd consider 'fair play' in TAR (Survivor is another matter), even if he is playing 'within the rules'.

>I'm lucky enough to have 2 channels air TAR on 2 different timeslots.

Likewise. Here in Malaysia it shows at 8 p.m. (that's about 8 a.m. EST after it has been shown in the U.S.), and then aired again at midnight and several times. Like you, I usually view it at least a second time with the benefit of hindsight. CBS also does a summary post that's worth reading if you missed out on the quotes.

> Rob never suggested or openly tell Deana or Meredith that they should quit. All he said was "I don't think you can do it". The words "you should quit too" weren't uttered. (I can see a litany of "that part was edited out".

Well, that's the problem in making any judgments about any of the teams, really. We're shown a very small slice of what really happens, and that slice is chosen for us by producers who have commercial profit from entertainment interests in mind. Maybe later, I'll start a thread on this issue.

>> Is this what we want to watch in TAR? This depends on who the viewer is.

>And this viewer says, "Hell yeah I wanna watch this on TAR!" It's fun and it puts a smile on my face. Let the gamesmanship begin! And continue!

I'll smile with you, even if I disagree. As you can tell from this and other threads, there is a wide range of opinion on this issue. I'll say this, though -- Rob's moves have injected some excitement to what could have been a boring TAR season, whether you love or hate the way he plays the game. It will be fun to see Rob get his just desserts, if it comes to that, as other teams wise up (and they'd better or they wont Survive!).

>hiya "cahaya"!

backatcha, "dirob"!

After a team member quit, would s/he have been allowed to change her/his mind and try to finish the 4 lbs. of meat?

I'm thinking they haven't officially quit on a task until they move on and do the next task (or pit stop).


New from Sigs by Syren!!
Keep lookin' up, cuz that's where it all is. o-

I couldn't find an 'unofficial' TAR rulebook online, but it's either what you say or it's from the time they officially say "I quit" and the penalty clock starts running. It would be interesting to know which is actually true, given that a team might later realize they'd end up in last place unless they returned to the task. Had Susan & Patrick and Debbie and Bianca not got lost for so long, Meredith & Gretchen could have easily been eliminated if they had to wait out the entire penalty period without being able to return to the task.

"cahaya"

I'm still thinking that they haven't officially quit until the time runs out and they start the next task, and that even if the penalty clock starts running, they can say "Oh, OK, I'll just do the roadblock" and finish the roadblock without penalty.


New from Sigs by Syren!!
Keep lookin' up, cuz that's where it all is. o-

Supposedly according to the insider Patrick had quit but was just pretending to do the task to fake the girls out at least that what was said over there on sucks.
Thank you for giving me honor in hat form.