Has anyone noticed that at every single tribal council, Tina is chosen by Mark Burnett to talk about why she is voting a particular person off. I wonder why. Also, I think that after watching the tape over again of this week's episode, MB foreshadowed Tina jumping ship to Kucha by Alicia saying Tina would never turn on her team and by Tina helping Rodger swim and when the camera focused on Tina when Probst said after tribal council that new friendships and voting patterns would emerge.

• Benedict Tina,dangerkitty, 09:12 PM, 03-09-01
  • RE: Benedict Tina,Loree, 09:49 PM, 03-09-01
    • RE: Benedict Tina,Minstrel, 07:21 AM, 03-10-01
    • RE: Benedict Tina,dangerkitty, 11:45 AM, 03-10-01
      • RE: Benedict Tina,Minstrel, 05:23 PM, 03-10-01
        • RE: Tiny Tina.....,Dalton, 04:37 PM, 03-12-01
          • RE: Tiny Tina.....,SurvivinDawg, 07:32 PM, 03-12-01
      • RE: Benedict Tina,Play2Survive, 00:12 AM, 03-11-01
• RE: Tina At All Tribal Councils...,kandlo, 08:37 AM, 03-10-01
• RE: Tina At All Tribal Councils...,sleeeve, 11:48 PM, 03-10-01
  • RE: Tina At All Tribal Councils...,SurvivinDawg, 00:57 AM, 03-11-01
    • RE: Tina At All Tribal Councils...,sleeeve, 01:39 AM, 03-11-01
      • RE: Tina At All Tribal Councils...,jjtay, 09:41 PM, 03-11-01
        • RE: Tina At All Tribal Councils...,Lurking, 10:03 PM, 03-11-01
        • RE: Tina At All Tribal Councils...,Play2Survive, 07:20 PM, 03-12-01
      • RE: Tina At All Tribal Councils...,julie, 07:13 PM, 03-12-01
  • RE: Tina ...,kdzrgon, 12:12 PM, 03-11-01
• RE: Tina At All Tribal Councils...,CD, 07:09 PM, 03-11-01
  • RE: Tina At All Tribal Councils...,Minstrel, 10:26 PM, 03-11-01
    • RE: Tina At All Tribal Councils...,Kokoro, 10:35 PM, 03-11-01

I agree, I thought it was interesting in the preview that Alicia said "Tina would never turn on her team". Because we know that she has already turned on her "mini-team" more than once. And the others may know that she gave it up for Keith in the IC, but her talk to the camera after, they may not know - and although she did "take one for the team" (after Keith BEGGED), it just about killed her to do it. At that point, it was just her and Keith. She is ultimately out for herself, make no mistake, Alicia!

Tina had to save the team to save herself. If they lost Keith they could all be picked off one by one by a Kucha majority. So she wasn't just doing it for Keith or for the team. She was also doing it for herself.

Loree, unless you think by Tina winning immunity that she would be a future threat and thus a future target, I don't see where your comment is that strong. Everyone is trying to win (I think?) and Kucha wouldn't have much reason to target her. The fact she lasted as long as she did is evidence enough to have a concern about her being a threat to win. For the most part, the men are the main targets because of immunity. Tina has shown she belongs "with the men" and Alicia is another one. Jerri can be targeted only if her past actions come to light or they see her performing well.

I think that's part of the Nick theory. "I may look a threat, but I show I don't win so leave me alone." His "outsider" approach draws attention away from him for the moment just like Rodger's inability to physically hold up.

Tina did have to save the team, but not herself as far as TC7 was concerned. Kucha was voting Colby first because Elisabeth convinced them he was the one. Jeff agreed when Keith "took his spoon" while cooking further justifying Keith was a "puppy" and Colby must be a better target. He must be the leader or have votes against him. They wouldn't ax a chef so soon?

Yes, I agree that it was still in her best interest to let Keith have it. But my point is that Keith had to beg her, and she spoke afterwards about how hard it was to give it up. Just pointing to what that suggests about her future behavior.

Ok Dangerkitty, I agree Keith did have to beg her. And she knew Kimmi told her about Jeff's vote (even though Kucha had two more TC's where he could have gotten votes). But you should agree Tina was in no danger other than to mathematically receive 5 Kucha votes like Colby did. What I do see is that she knows she lost IC2 in front of everyone and may have thought Kucha would have targeted her as an "intelligent guess."

But you are making the same point I was last week in thinking Ogakor isn't that solid. All five of these people could jump ship at a moment's notice if they saw it better to do so. It's why partly I was confused when Keith (I think) said we agreed to stay together from day one.

Colby isn't in an alliance, he's just voting in certain ways. Keith has been seeking support for his side for protection from Jerri. Tina is like Colby only she thought she was in an alliance with Jerri. Amber is Amber and Jerri is Jerri. So depending on how strong the "stay together" comment is this week, will decide if anyone defects now.

Personally, I see defecting now as more harmful because it brings Kucha back into the game at 4-4. So I don't see them breaking this week.

Anyone who does defect to Kucha might have to play the game of alternating back and forth to switch the tide of the voting. But this can only go on so long before they will be found out. Of course, immunity will play a big part, but can someone make a Kelly run? And, with the Kuchas, Tina, and Amber without votes, that doesn't help Colby, Keith, or Jerri in tie breaking situations.

K/C/J could switch if they had immunity on their side and the final four is a key (and last) time to do it. Elimination of the other non-vote getters plus an immunity at the final three will put one of them into the final and with their choice of opponents.

But there are many scenarios. I just think Ogakor will hit at least another Kucha before someone tries a switch. And of course, the final statements of the final two will be important. Rodger/Elisabeth bond is a given vote to the other. Keith owes Tina big time. We will remember Rudy and Rich. And Sean and even Sue. Tribal bonding does mean something.

Another angle to understanding Tina and how she
is playing the game is she's an over-40 woman
up against 4 younger, lamer and (Alicia) stronger
girls.

She has got to use her "smarts". She could have taken
the IC for Ogakor and left Keith hanging....but she didn't.

Tina definitely doesn't want to go into the final four
against Cute-Emotional-LisLis or against Sweet Lamber.
OTOH....Up against Jerri or Alicia she might pull votes.

So, I don't see Tina making any move away from Colby/Keith.

FYI. On cbs Richard Hatch said, after watching E7, "Tiny
Tina is the scarriest person out there playing the game!!"
If she "scares" Hatch, well LOL. Go Tiny Tina!!

D.

Dalton, see my notes in the recent "alliances" thread (sorry I don't have an HTML reference for you). I basically show that Tina could beat Lis or Amber in Final Jury. SHOULD it arise, I predict Tina 4-3 over Lis (Colby/Jerri/Amber/Keith, maybe Rodger too) and 5-2 or 6-1 over Amber (Colby/Keith/Rodger/Lis/Alicia, maybe Nick also.)

I'd like to add that she said something like: "at this point in the game, I'm still a team player." At this point in the game? What does that suggest?

i never even considered that at tribal councils they talk to/ask everyone and then edit and choose who makes tv time during an episode. now with this, does anyone have last yrs tapes to notice if richard was a featured face/voice (tv time) during tribal councils?
k

Just a theory at this point (with no real foundation), but with this foreshadowing in mind, what's to prevent Tina from jumping ship THIS WEEK???

It might be a very smart move. She and Keith are concerned that Colby, Amber, and Jerri will vote them off, once they have finished voting off all of the Kucha, so she jumps ship NOW.

She has no previous votes, so if she and the four Kucha vote together this week, they (as a block of five) can eliminate anyone (Jerri??? or the IC-threat Colby???). Then, with no previous votes for any of the Kucha or for Tina, Ogakor cannot retaliate in any tie vote that results.

Then, they vote out the other remaining Ogakor one-by-one, leaving Tina, Elisabeth, Alicia, Rodger, and Nick as the final five. This would fit with Alicia's "go Kucha" remark as well as Jeff's comment on the Early Show that things get interesting.

Also, surely all of the members of Ogakor realize that they must eventually vote for fellow Ogakor. Since Jerri, Colby, and Kieth cannot do this yet (for fear of the tie-breaker in the next, 4-4 vote), and Amber will not jump ship until she is told to do so by Jerri, Tina might be wise to switch now, and guarantee herself top five... she might be able to squeeze into the Elisabeth/Rodger alliance in the mean time, and then she's in the final three (barring IC challenges).

One other way for the show to "get interesting": Tina offers to let Kieth join in this little coup (we know they are friends, although it is almost always Kieth that says this, NOT Tina, but she doesn't deny it... strategy???... Mad Dog thought she and Tina were friends too...)

He refuses to go (fearing retaliation, and his past votes), lets the Ogakor in on Tina's plans, hoping to gain favor with his tribe, and the Ogakor are forced to vote Tina out this week, leaving Jerri, Colby, and Kieth at risk the next week in a four-four tie vote, ultimately giving the remaining four Kucha the upper hand... This results in a Kucha final four... Hence Alicia's "go Kucha" comment and Jeff's "things get interesting" comment.

sleeeve, nothing personal, but I have to totally disagree with what you've said for the following reasons:

1) If the final five are Tina and four Kucha's, guess who's next? The Kuchas very much remember Mike's skin dripping off his fingers. It would be suicide for Tina to turn and give that 4-4 back to Kucha.

2) Why assume that, once the Kucha are voted off, that Tina would think Colby would automatically vote her off and not Jerri? If anything, your analysis could (and possibly should) be applied to JERRI, but not Tina.

3) The Ogies may need to vote on of their own off eventually, but not now. I am not even sure why they would need to vote one of their own off before it gets to 5-2. Once again, Jerri might feel the need to defect, but not Tina at this point.

I don't see Tina defecting this week or the next two UNLESS there is a new alliance of her with Keith/Rodger/Lis and possibly Colby to wax Jerri.

LAST EDITED ON 03-11-01 AT 01:53 AM (EST)

It was just intended to be food for thought... I think Tina is much smarter than we think (there was another thread about that here somewhere)...

If I were Tina, I think I'd be worried... We know at the last TC, Colby refused to vote for Jerri and instead forced Keith and Tina to vote for Mitch. We also know that Colby told Jerri that it was him, Jerri and Amber to the end (although Tina does not know this, there may have been some things that we have not seen that could indicate this to her.)

A lot of people think that there is tension growing between Colby and Jerri, that Tina and Keith are confident will eventually help them out. I disagree.

The only real tension we've seen was the water bucket incident, and I think that was edited to make us think that Colby was pissed at Jerri, but watch Jerri's reaction... She smiles and says "thanks I needed that." If I didn't know that Jerri was a b*itch (and Kucha does NOT), I'd think that Colby was kind of an outside jerk, and that Jerri was behaving quite nicely, all things considered. My opinion: This was a stunt planned by Jerri and Colby in advance. I think that they were already looking ahead to the merger, and hoping that they could win the next immunity (duh!)

If that is the case, they knew all too well how the tie-breaker would work. This in mind, they knew that Jeff had one vote, so they had to get Kucha to vote for someone with no votes. By making Colby look like a spoiled jerk, implying that he was only being kept around for his strength, and placing Jerri in a position of trust and leadership, they were hoping that if they could win the next IC, Kucha would vote for Colby in the next TC, and Jeff would be booted by the tie-breaker.

This fits with the Tina's "plan since the first week" comment, and also with Colby's decision to jump off of the post and act smug during Ep7 IC.

If this is true, and Colby is protecting Jerri and HATCHing plans (Richard pun intended), and seemingly refuses to discuss any alliance with you, if you're Tina, you're worried... You don't know for sure he's a swing vote (as we do)... he may have an alliance with Amber and Jerri. Thus, you're NOT safe!, and if he does have an alliance, Keith is likely to be voted out of Kucha once the tribes reach 5-3 (after the next Ep), since we know Jerri hates him.

Thus, if you're Tina, you're looking for an out. You can't trust Colby, you're against Jerri and Amber, Keith is a sitting duck... But Kucha is willing to deal. Honestly, if I were Tina, I'd be about willing to deal NOW, and not wait until the tribes are split 5-3 when it may be too late.

EDITED because I can't spell.

>LAST EDITED ON 03-11-01
>AT 01:53 AM (EST)

>The only real tension we've seen
>was the water bucket incident,
>and I think that was
>edited to make us think
>that Colby was pissed at
>Jerri, but watch Jerri's reaction...
> She smiles and says
>"thanks I needed that."
>If I didn't know that
>Jerri was a b*itch (and
>Kucha does NOT), I'd think
>that Colby was kind of
>an outside jerk, and that
>Jerri was behaving quite nicely,
>all things considered. My
>opinion: This was a
>stunt planned by Jerri and
>Colby in advance. I
>think that they were already
>looking ahead to the merger,
>and hoping that they could
>win the next immunity (duh!)

I don't think they were thinking that far ahead, Colby was really pissed off at Jerri cause she couldn't get Amber to the table, she had so much time to do it....what a dumb couple of chicks.
They really did good as a team in the IC & TC votes, except for that dumb Jerri & her little follower who jumped off the pole so early in the IC. If Kucha would of been smart & voted Jerri off they would be ahead in the game....too bad!!!

If Kel were still around, Ogakor would be up 6-3 at this point.

I just have to say this.....Jerri did not fail that challenge. She was telling Amber, quite accurately, where to put the jug, and Amber just froze there like Cindy Brady. I agree that Colby was the jerk. I don't like Jerri, but I think she did a great job with that challenge.

Random thought...

Maybe Jerry & Colby only pretend to be annoyed with each other to trick Keith & Tina much the same way they tricked Kucha. They could be really tight and only argue when Keith/Tina are around.

julie

".... refuses to go (fearing retaliation, and his past votes), lets the Ogakor in on Tina's plans, hoping to gain favor with his tribe, and the Ogakor are forced to vote Tina out this week"

No way - if Tina votes with a Kucha bloc, it would be a 5-4 vote, even if the remaining Okies all voted for Tina, unless of course the Ogas could convince a Kucha to defect at the same time!

If Tina were to defect, it might be wiser for Keith to go as well. Knowing the prior vote score, he could then help target an Oga with fewer previous votes to eliminate (perhaps Amber, still under the radar). Keith would have a better chance with Tina than against at this point. And remember, as TCs progress, more votes build for others - Keith needs to be with the majority for now, wherever that may be.

As to Tina giving the win to Keith, I believe it served a second purpose for her (in addition to giving Ogas the upper hand): it let the Kuchas know Keith had enough points against him to be a concern, thus setting him up as a target before Tina.

Tina, Liz and Rodger are about to link up.

Apparently there's a romantic link up next episode as well ~ is it Tina and Keith or Liz and Colby? Liz's comments about Jerri: 'she has got to go' could come from what she now knows from her newfound relationship with Tina or the new love interest, Colby or maybe both have confided Jerri hatred with her.

We'll see new alliances for the next TC and Tina will still pull her weight ~ especially with Keith.

I doubt there is a romantic link, but I agree with the notion that an Ogakor defection next week is unwise for Ogakors. However, Tina is the only one that could benefit. She would be a target if found out in time, otherwise, four votes hit a Kucha which is good for Ogakors. People with votes may look to each other in an attempt to eliminate those without votes because of the prior votes tie breaker.

I also think the jury vote is predominately former tribe lines. To date IMO, Jeff will vote Kucha, Alicia likely Kucha, Elisabeth and Rodger likely Kucha, Nick is a mystery. Colby is a mystery depending on the person, Keith probably Ogakor except Jerri and maybe not Amber, Tina Ogakor except Jerri, Amber will vote Ogakor, and Jerri will vote Amber and maybe Colby otherwise a Kucha.

<<Jeff will vote Kucha>>

Maybe you know this but....Jeff is gone. The Jury will be of the remaining 7 bootees.

Ooooh watch out everyone there's a "crack" in the alliance. Yeah, maybe; If crack was slang for millionaire.