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"East Coast Spoiler thread|Ep 5|Game changers"
Posted by Flowerpower1 on 04-12-17 at 08:12 PM
You know the drill, no siggies
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"Previously on Survivor....."
Posted by Flowerpower1 on 04-12-17 at 08:19 PM
At exile island debbie was living in lap of luxury with Cochran, taks the extra vote, at the Mana tribe Brad was working his way to the top, at nuku Sandra and varner at the bottom but Tai became paranoid....at TC, Tai tried to shift targets by throwing ozzy under the bus, sandra was too big of a threat and debbie joined the nuku tribe, who's left?

return....debbie says that tribal was scarier than exile, Debbie: I was the only person to sit on a TC w without being on jury and back at Nuky where I belong, zee hugs her, debbie said what happened on exile stays on exile, not letting myself or mr cochran down...
Ozzy talks to Tai

At tribal I might be the bottom right now, Ozzy is the only name that makes sense, he could win all the immunities, so I thought I needed to go there...

In case my name is out there I have 2 idols, i am nervous this thing has 2 lives
Varner: I got blindsided big time, I'm mad, I can't show it, i need them, see him talking to Zeke....it's a game, I get it, it's my turn to get blindsided, I would have voted for her without telling her, I went to work immediately and I had a great convo with Zeke, and he wants to be honest with Varner, he doesn't want him to have a seat on the jury but a seat on the final three, Varner is thrilled, he bonded with Zeke, he's not done yet....cut to intro

"post intro"
Posted by Flowerpower1 on 04-12-17 at 08:26 PM
Come on in guys....RC....Day 17

Mana seeing nu nuku tribe, Sandra voted out...after 94 days of playing the game, and debbie joins....

work tighter to unspool rope, get key, build ladder to get to top use key, get balls, land balls in targets, 5 of them, win pizza! OMG!!! Survivor pizza....they ask for samples....10 pizzas....ice cold soft drinks to go along with it....

Nuku with nice lead thanks to Ozzy...Debbie is getting the balls...Nuku is in the lead...Ozzy has the balls....throwing to get them in the target, Culpepper takes over for Sierra....but Ozzy is on fire, as usual...and he wins, for NUKU, pizza and soft drinks, they all kiss him....see Brad culpepper....see mana, Cirie: the pizza would have made a world of difference, I am from Jersey, it's 17 days, it's rough taxing on you physically and emotionally, we don't know what to do....

"post reward...."
Posted by Flowerpower1 on 04-12-17 at 08:33 PM
Mana day 17....spirits are low, Cirie and Sierra talking, when we lost 10 whole pizzas, I am exhausted I haven't eaten in 3 days, lost a ton of weight, this game is hard...we thought why are we doing this to ourselves....When you get to a certain point on Survivor, your mind goes to certain places....why are you different, they are crying, says Aubry, they are all crying, now Brad is crying, I didn't know how hard it was on the body....Monica, she was different she hurt and I never understood why she was hurting....
Brad: when Monica and I played, she got to day 39, for her to get to the end, she is try strength and my comfort...

Aubry tells him it meant a lot to me, I am consistently to me the most genuine person to work with...
Curie and Brad are making a pack, so special you said that cause they saw the real me, galvanized my relationship with those 2, solidifies 5 people that I have with who I want to go with....Sierra, Cirie, Troyzan, Aubry...

Ozzy with Pizza, so important to win this extra boost so important right now.
Varner: felt so good, won pizza but to win this doesn't mean a dang thing, If I want to save my butt out here, got to throw the shade on someone else, now is the time to get rid of ozzy

Ozzy says I need you just as much as you need me...

Sara: today after the reward varner says I want to work with you, I feel like we have made that connection, who do you want to get rid of first, Ozzy, just so we have a chance of winning...don't want to come in last, want to win,

Sara says could Ozzy be potentially the vote? Sara is ready to prove that she is a game changer we are close to a merge and we need to take out the biggest threat it might be time to cut ooze's throat, see ozzy

"Pre IC...."
Posted by Flowerpower1 on 04-12-17 at 08:44 PM
IC: 4 members swim to raft pull yourself to a series of stations dive down release buoys and use them to solve a 13 letter word puzzle

Tai zee ozzy sara
holy troy culpepperAubry

nuku with lead...ozzy diving to release the balls, culpepper releasing balls, Ozzy releases them all....culpepper cannot do it....open the lead for nuku....second set of buoys...ozzy is killing it.....Aubry dives down for mana now, Ozzy has them all...extending the lead for nuku...aubry did really well too....now mana is figuring out the puzzle....

Andrea Debbie and Varner solving vs. Cirie, Michaela, and Sierra...Nuku wins the immunity....with metamorphosis....the one word that captures what Survivor is all about....

Michaela does a flip
Varner: I know I am probably in trouble, I will do everything to get them to vote for ozzy

Varner wants to have one on one time with everybody, will make his pitch and be at peace....talks with ozzy...leaves the 5 of them at camp...Sara says that her gut is to get rid of ozzy now, I trust varner. Zee says that we need to stick with ozzy, he really wants to stick with us,

Zee: I don't want to lose ozzy, i want bigger threats than myself

Varner talks with Zeke....zeke says that he wants him to stay, but Zeke shut him down, zee does not want to get rid of ozzy. Ozzy and zee may be working together, I wonder if the girls know that

Varner tells Sara that the girls are lying to you, and zee is working both sides, zee is not being truthful, there is something about Zeke that nobody knows that is insignificant to the game, if I have to go to tc tonight and raise mortal hell I will do it....sara and Andrea are talking, zee threw us under the bus, to area, but andrea wants to keep zee for now....sara says this is tarting to stink, do zee and ozzy have something more going on tonight, we need to get rid of ozzy and keep varner....

"Tribal council"
Posted by Flowerpower1 on 04-12-17 at 09:00 PM
Night 18...see ozzy, see varner....at last TC, sandra is out, varner you seem to think that you would be next, yes, I tried may best to not be on the bottom, I know I am going home tonight....debbie, when somebody is that certain a little feeling just creeps over on me...
Varner: I thought I knew where people stood but it was revealed to me how little I knew, they are not six strong, who do you want to vote out? if you get enough numbers to get Ozzy out, there is a secret alliance between zee and ozzy and you are the bottom...boom boom boom, I appeal to you to vote Ozzy...deception here on levels that you don't understand...he turns to zee and told him, why haven't you told anyone that you are transgender? that is personal....that is not right, that is so wrong, they are all upset, andrea is crying, varner says that he is arguing, Tai is screaming at him, Debbie says that it is for Zeke to disclose...that is not deceiving you in the game, ...they are all disgusted with Varner, they are vehement, Andrea is crying....now Varner says he is sorry, he supports ...Ozzy says that he should be ashamed of yourself, you are playing with peoples lives right now...visually, Zeke looks like he is on an island of his own. Zee. I really like varner, we shared a lot of stories....I didn't want to blindside him....Jeff, what do you think the LGBT communities reaction will be, they know who I am, not this horrible monster. It's a game for a million dollars, I made he wrong choice....I thought he was out and proud about it...they are all calling Varner out...now he is saying sorry to Zeke....I can understand varner, he's desperate, he crossed the line, he just have to live with it...whenever you want to come out, it's your choice, nobody should make that choice for you...I understand that Jeff is desperate, that was tough, I really feel for Zeke, it's his right to tell people, you told millions of people...Varner is crying. I assumed that everyone in his world knew, it never dawned on me that no one knew...Zeke, you have been amazingly strong through this....transitioning, a long process, there are people who know, then I got to a point that I don't tell anymore...I think I have been fortunate to play and not have that label....I am prepared totally about it, it is kind of crappy they way it happened. if metamorphosis is the word, I have done it, started 2 fires with just bamboo and I am a stronger better man than I was.... he tells Varner he's cool....Varner cries and apologizes, I am shocked I can't believe that I did that...Sara....I am , that's not me, sorry that I am crying, that was a malicious attack what he did, I don't treat people that way, sara crying: i am thankful that I got to know zee for who he is, got to be with him for last 18 days, he's super kick #####, conservative background and not diverse regarding LGBT, not exposed to it, the fact that I can love these guys so much, it makes me feel like I have grown as a person, of course we want to come away with a million dollars, but this is invaluable and I am so glad that I got to know you as zee!

Zee, I am not anyone that should be a role model for somebody else but me being out on the show, maybe this will lead to a greater good...they all agree that Varner is going home, varner says he is ready to go, just go, we don't need to vote, just go....varner and Zeke hug....he goes....

see Ozzy then Zeke....Tai is holding andrea's hand, tonight was a complicated but ultimately a beautiful night that will not be forgotten...

"RE: Tribal council"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 04-12-17 at 09:07 PM
Absolutely bush league B.S. from Varner Vermin.
"RE: Tribal council"
Posted by coldbrewer on 04-12-17 at 11:57 PM
I went from shock, anger, tears, and then went roundtrip. Wow...that tribal was intense.
"Next time on Survivor...."
Posted by Flowerpower1 on 04-12-17 at 09:06 PM
With 13 game changers come together, it's a scramble for power
We are officially merged
Curie: the game is on
Jiffy: it's a scramble for power
Hali: it's just like pow...
Sierra: I am ready to go in with guns blazing

Sierra to Debbie in the hammock: there is a new sheriff in town


Varner: no one should do what I did and I am so sorry to his friends and family and especially to Zeke.

"RE: Next time on Survivor...."
Posted by Brownroach on 04-13-17 at 06:00 PM
Will Curie discover the buried Radium Advantage clue?
"Varner sucks."
Posted by Jims03 on 04-12-17 at 10:07 PM
I know everyone is piling on him tonight, but it needed to be said.

Varner should know better.

"RE: Varner sucks."
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 04-12-17 at 10:18 PM
Rather ironic, really... it's pretty well-known that Vermin is gay, but he never discussed it openly on 'Survivor' himself.

If it was done by someone who was known to be iffy towards LGBT (i.e. Kathy Sleckman), it would have been easier to prepare for knowing the kind of person they are... but coming from someone who claims to be such a champion for those in the LGBT community has to feel like the ultimate betrayal.

"RE: Varner sucks."
Posted by Bebo on 04-12-17 at 11:28 PM
Varner's always been slimy, but I could appreciate it because he was playing the game. But that was not only cruel, it was the stupidest move ever made. Why would he think that people would trust him over Zeke by spilling that secret? Varner showed his tribe that he would use anything he had to throw someone else under the bus. He made JT looks like a freakin' genius.

Now I give Varner the biggest Survivor insult I can think of - that's something I would have expected from a Hantz.

"RE: Varner sucks."
Posted by Flowerpower1 on 04-13-17 at 07:22 AM
Yes, Varner hit the all time lowest move ever made in Survivor, but Zeke though. What a class act! He handled it with grace, dignity, and made the situation into a positive. I love him! Outstanding young man!
"RE: Varner sucks."
Posted by CTgirl on 04-13-17 at 11:54 AM
Varner is a jerk and I lost all respect for him.

Zeke wrote a great article about the experience for The Hollywood Reporter

"RE: Varner sucks."
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 04-13-17 at 01:46 PM
That really was a fantastic article.

Full disclosure -- I have a child who is transgender and is open about it. I could not imagine for one iota that anyone could think it is okay to tear away another person's right to decide how the world should know about his or her status. The fact that Vermin himself is gay and says he has done advocacy in the LGBT community makes it 100x worse.

As Vermin himself said this morning, outing someone else without their permission is a form of assault. He should turn himself in.

"RE: Varner sucks."
Posted by Bebo on 04-13-17 at 02:11 PM
I just read his interview with RTVW, and he said he wasn't even sure when he said it. That makes it even more disgusting, that he would use that as a game tactic.

And Varner lived her in NC for a long time. With all of the HB2 /LGBT issues going on here, it's even worse.


"RE: Varner sucks."
Posted by michel2 on 04-13-17 at 03:48 PM
As much as Varner sucks, let's not forget that it was EPMB and SeeBS that ultimately decided to out Zeke. The TC could have been edited in such a way that we would never have heard a word of it.
"RE: Varner sucks."
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 04-13-17 at 03:56 PM
I believe that they had discussions with Zeke about how they wanted to edit it for television. Vermin said there was a lot more than what was shown, and instead mostly only showed stuff that painted him in a bad light (deservedly so).

Part of the problem is that if they simply went to "okay, it seems everyone agrees that Vermin is booted, let's not bother with a vote" then the viewers will be completely confuzzled and there's no way to edit it like that. So I do believe that there was some consultation with Zeke and he probably knew that there was no going back on it -- he had a long, fantastically-written article in place with Hollywood Reporter that was released the day after the incident on TV, so he was prepared and knew in advance how it would be played up on TV.

"RE: Varner sucks."
Posted by michel2 on 04-13-17 at 04:43 PM
I certainly hope they talked to Zeke before airing the episode.

Still, it was Jeff's decision to void the vote and he must have consulted his people before dropping it. Survivor is just as guilty as Varner.

"RE: Varner sucks."
Posted by Jims03 on 04-13-17 at 07:37 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-13-17 AT 07:41 PM (EST)

Survivor is just as guilty as Varner.

That isn't fair to the show at all.

They cast a transgender man in Millennials vs Gen X and consciously chose not to out him as their first transgender contestant. They could have tried to make a big deal about the casting. But they didn't. They were respectful of how much Zeke wanted to talk about it, and let him play the game the way he wanted.

When this situation did come up within the game, they consulted with Zeke and GLAAD afterwards to see how this episode should be portrayed. We don't know what would have happened if they consulted and Zeke said no, they might've just made an extremely awkward cut. Varner already stated he was going home that night, they could've cut together some kind of, "Well, this is obvious" thing, almost like a quit. We don't know. But we do know, the way it went down, Jeff Probst was very respectful of Zeke and the producers were conscientious afterwards with what to do with it. If the argument is that Probst forced their hand by skipping the vote, then your argument is more of a production procedure mistake (and continuity concern). Which isn't even close to being as bad a what Jeff Varner did.

There is nothing about how Survivor treated Zeke prior to this incident (see: the previous season) that suggests they designed this to be exploitative. Varner brought this into the game, not the producers.

"RE: Varner sucks."
Posted by michel2 on 04-13-17 at 08:05 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-13-17 AT 08:06 PM (EST)

As soon as they voided the vote, they had decided to show it all. That was before Zeke really had a chance to reflect on things if even his reflection mattered which I doubt.

As for last season, my understanding is that they simply didn't know. Zeke said in his interview that he didn't tell casting so production can't be credited for not exploiting something they ignored.

Regarding guilt, Varner told 6 castaways and a SeeBS production crew. SeeBS told millions.

"RE: Varner sucks."
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 04-13-17 at 09:02 PM
No, michel, Jims is correct.

This was a coordinated effort on several fronts to present a clear message that Vermin was 100% wrong and to increase awareness of an important issue. This did not happen because CBS simply decided that they were going to air it -- they all worked together to have their own messages heard. It's not a coincidence that Zeke, Hollywood Reporter, The Talk, GLAAD, and several other LGBT organizations all had well-detailed messages and/or appearances coordinated the day after this airing. It's clear that CBS had Zeke's blessing to get the message out.

"RE: Varner sucks."
Posted by michel2 on 04-14-17 at 02:38 AM
This place used to be called "Survivor Blows" for a reason. I didn't expect long time posters to be Survivor Apologists. Vermin acted horribly by outing Zeke. SeeBS acted horribly by airing that outing when they could have kept it under wraps. They could have. We all know they could.

Vermin was only thinking of making jury. SeeBS was thinking of making profits. Which is worse?

"RE: Varner sucks."
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 04-14-17 at 09:28 PM
See Bebo's comment below. There was no way they could keep everything under wraps, especially if later events in the season had some reference to what happened in this tribal council.
"RE: Varner sucks."
Posted by michel2 on 04-15-17 at 12:40 PM
See my reply to Bebo below.
"RE: Varner sucks."
Posted by Brownroach on 04-14-17 at 01:01 AM
They cast a transgender man in Millennials vs Gen X and consciously chose not to out him as their first transgender contestant. They could have tried to make a big deal about the casting. But they didn't.

I didn't watch that season, but I have to wonder: if Zeke had won (I assume he didn't), do you really think Survivor wouldn't have wanted to congratulate itself on having its first transgender winner? Survivor is exploitative of all of its contestants, it comes with the territory. The show exists precisely for this sort of thing to happen.

"RE: Varner sucks."
Posted by kingfish on 04-14-17 at 11:16 AM
As to the show being guilty of not editing that TC so as to not reveal the outing...that is a weird perspective or criticism, particularly for a show whose sole purposes are ratings, ad revenue, and renewal. What we saw seemed to be a TC that was dominated by the outing and the ensuing discussion, so editing that out would have been such a heavy handed redacting that it would have left the whole reason why Varner was booted mostly unanswered.

Oh sure, they would have had substantial grounds to portray his eviction as solely due to his deteriorated position in the tribe - it's fairly obvious that he would have been booted anyway - but how would one explain the consensual no-vote?

No, in my opinion the producers/editors actually held up their moral end of the stick. That it was a ratings boost and also a boost to their show in the news and blog discussions was good for them, but to have hid that happening would have not been the right thing to do.

All my sympathy goes out to Zeke for the emotional toll it took on him. And I agree that he is a spectacularly well adjusted young man, as evinced in his reaction at the time and afterward. But that's limited by the fact that as a gay transgender person he had to know that the possibility existed that someone in a crazy bloodthirsty game as Survivor can often be that it could happen to him, and I would lay odds on the fact that his contract mentioned the possibility of extreme embarrassment. Probably not the revealing of his very personal information, but he had to know what the possibilities were.

Finally (thanks for sticking with me)- Varner. What an idiot. What monumentally poor judgement. Especially for a gay man, which I didn't know before this discussion. For an articulate and intelligent (this really shines the spotlight on how stupid an intelligent person can be) person, what he did really takes the cake just in terms of game play, let alone in revealing a personal blind spot a mile wide.

.

"RE: Varner sucks."
Posted by michel2 on 04-14-17 at 11:46 AM
...but how would one explain the consensual no-vote?

That is precisely why I blame production. By voiding the vote, they had to show it all. We know that this decision wasn't taken out of the blue. Probst talked with his crew before deciding what to do. Holding a vote would have allowed to edit it out. But ratings were their only consideration, not Zeke.

"RE: Varner sucks."
Posted by kingfish on 04-14-17 at 12:57 PM
I agree, the non-vote was unnecessary, with or without the discussion, and that the discussion was necessary to justify the non-vote. It only served to add a note of personal disgust which was hardly needed.

I don't think that detail really added to the ratings, but I agree that even so, that was probably their only consideration.

"RE: Varner sucks."
Posted by Brownroach on 04-14-17 at 03:46 PM
It may not have added to the ratings that night, but it's been all over social media since. That's a huge bonanza for the show.
"RE: Varner sucks."
Posted by Bebo on 04-14-17 at 05:41 PM
From what I've read, the Survivor producers were emphatic that it would be up to Zeke the way that his story would be told. Zeke knew there was a chance that it might be revealed - but I'm sure he had no idea it would be this way.

As for CBS - this wasn't as cut and dried as showing or not showing the TC. They could have easily gone back and filmed people voting, and they could have just shown enough of the votes to eliminate Varner.

But it wasn't a one-and-done deal. There's a lot of show left, and once the cat was out of the bag, there was no putting it back in. It would have been an editing nightmare for the rest of the show. It had such a huge impact on the players at the TC, and there's no doubt that their future behavior and conversations were impacted by it. I don't see how they could have told the rest of the season by sweeping this huge moment under the rug and pretending it didn't happen.

But they gave Zeke control to shape the story, with the People article and his writing in THR. And while he may not have wanted to tell the world, he did at least have 9 months before the show aired to talk with those close to him.

I think Survivor handled a bad situation the best way they could. They showed the outrage of his tribemates. They showed Sarah's introspection, which I thought was quite powerful.

And I was blown away by Zeke's grace under extreme pressure. The metamorphosis comment...wow. To be so eloquent and dignified in the midst of that kind of situation was incredible and raised my respect for him even higher.

apologies for all of the cliches I threw in - that's overdoing it even for me.

"RE: Varner sucks."
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 04-14-17 at 09:26 PM
This. So very much this.

They had to show it because of it impacting on the rest of the season with contestants aware of it - how were they going to edit the rest of the season if it turned out that it became part of the conversation or there was a later incident?

It's quite clear by now that there was a lot going on behind the scenes between the producers and Zeke, so it's not like they said "too bad, Zeke, we're airing it whether you like it or not."

"Well...maybe"
Posted by Brownroach on 04-14-17 at 10:05 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-14-17 AT 10:11 PM (EST)

"The idea of not airing this never came up,” Jeff Probst, the show’s longtime host and an executive producer, said in an interview.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/04/13/arts/television/survivor-contestant-transgender.html

"RE: Well...maybe"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 04-14-17 at 11:16 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-14-17 AT 11:46 PM (EST)

But they were prepared in advance for the event that it might (probably would've?) come out:

Mr. Probst continued, “Zeke’s approach has been: ‘I’m going to use this and make something great come from it.’”

....

“I know from talking to Zeke a lot before the show that he was fully prepared with the fact that it might come out,” Mr. Probst said. “And he said, ‘I will handle that as I need to, if it does.’”

....

On Thursday, Mr. Smith appeared on the daytime CBS show “The Talk” and said that he had been “granted unprecedented autonomy” in working with CBS and Mr. Probst to prepare for the episode’s broadcast and the personal revelations on national television. He also spoke of the show’s “integrity.”


The key wording here is that they talked about it before the show, so they already had some idea of what might or could happen. The decision was made long before Varner said anything, and to both sides' credit, they worked together after it happened to be fully prepared for the attention on the day it aired.

I think it would have been worse if it did happen and then everyone involved tried to suppress it by not airing it -- could you imagine the outrage if word of the incident leaked months after airing that this happened, from someone's loose lips?

Also, Zeke had no reason to say the words in the final paragraph that I quoted above, unless he really felt they handled things well.

The way I look at it is that it turned out to be a great way to increase awareness of trans issues -- other than the shaming of Varner, reception for Zeke Smith and awarness of trans issues has been overwhelmingly positive (and as a parent of a child who is transgender, I'm pretty aware of what goes on out there in the news).

"Next?"
Posted by kingfish on 04-14-17 at 11:47 PM
As far as the rest of the season goes, the short term aftermath is (probably) going to be very much in Zeke's favor, the sympathy generated will work against his being booted soon.

The longer term aftermath will (again, just guessing) be that because he will be such a formidable opponent at the final TC, that they cannot let him get there. This is a blood thirsty game, even overly so as Varner demonstrated, and I think they will work up the courage to not let Zeke make it to that TC. After the merge, maybe the other tribe won't be as reluctant to put his name down.

And after he is booted? Survivor will get another spike in attention from the Survivor sites. Much protesting and tearing of hair.

And after that? He will probably be near the top of the list for another returnee season (Sorry BR. I hate them too).

.

"RE: Next?"
Posted by PepeLePew13 on 04-15-17 at 00:44 AM
I agree... in terms of the game of 'Survivor', this likely killed his chances of making it to the final TC. The others know he'll get the votes, so he has to go before then if they want to win.
"RE: Next?"
Posted by Brownroach on 04-15-17 at 03:23 PM
My train of thought eventually traversed to the same conclusion: there is no way Zeke can win this season now.
"RE: Well...maybe"
Posted by Brownroach on 04-15-17 at 03:54 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-15-17 AT 03:56 PM (EST)

Every time I see/hear the words "Survivor" and "integrity" in the same sentence/paragraph I roll my eyes. It's a game show, nothing more. 😉

Anyway, my cynical self ponders this hypothetical: if, after all the discussions, Zeke had ultimately decided: "you know, I don't think I'm comfortable with this being aired in front of umpteen zillion viewers. I don't make it a big deal in my private existence, and now this will define me in such a way that I will always be having to deal with people's questions/responses regarding the whole thing. So, no thanks."

Would Survivor have respected that?

"RE: Well...maybe"
Posted by michel2 on 04-15-17 at 06:35 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-15-17 AT 06:36 PM (EST)

"Would Survivor have respected that?"

Exactly. We know they wouldn't.

"RE: Well...maybe"
Posted by Jims03 on 04-15-17 at 10:04 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-15-17 AT 10:08 PM (EST)

EDIT: Eh, I changed my mind, I hate debating hypotheticals

"RE: Well...maybe"
Posted by Brownroach on 04-15-17 at 11:20 PM
Well, me too, generally. But I would have liked to read your (now erased) always insightful thoughts.
"RE: Well...maybe"
Posted by michel2 on 04-16-17 at 05:05 PM
Then maybe you won't want to consider this: What if Zeke was planning to come out at Final Tribal Council?

I didn't know that production was aware of his transformation but they did. Why didn't they advertize him as the first transgender player? (CBS did it before when they had a transgender hamster in BB) One thing we know from Probst is that they won't betray someone's strategy. For example, we know he will not reveal someone's identity if that player chooses to hide it. What if the plan was for Zeke to make his big revelation at FTC to win the million? He saw how Jeremy's news about Val's pregnancy affected the jury. He then saw first hand how Adam's story sealed his win. It would explain why he was cast in back-to-back seasons; they would have cast him again to give him a chance to use his story.

If that's the case then Varner really only blew his game. Yes, it should have been Zeke's decision to come out but if he was planning on doing it to win the million then I'm not so sure about him.

I heard Varner was fired from his job because of this.

"RE: Well...maybe"
Posted by Jims03 on 04-17-17 at 11:23 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-17-17 AT 11:29 PM (EST)

I ended up deleting it because I thought I was being too repetitive in my argument. Hypotheticals have a bad habit of going around in circles...

I guess where I landed on it is that, at some point, we all have to acknowledge that Zeke signed up for a TV show where things could happen to him that he doesn't want to happen. Dawn didn't want people to see her without her teeth, but the way the game went down, it got dragged into the game. With Zeke's transgender status, there is obviously a more serious component to it (potential discrimination, etc). Which is why he had such a constant dialogue with the producers how he wanted to handle it before he was cast for his first season.

Zeke told the producers he doesn't want to play the game as "the transgender contestant." The producers granted his wish. They're not going to bring it into the game. They didn't have to grant this wish (ratings, ahoy!), but that's what they did.

But I think every party involved (production and Zeke) were well aware that it is possible it to be brought into the game. I think it is extremely doubtful, with how careful production has been with this, that they did not have detailed conversations about this potential event. Zeke was fully aware that he was going on a television program and that bad things could happen. Every reality TV contestant is (or should be) fully aware of this possibility.

And then when it did happen, production gave him autonomy in how he wanted to tell his story and express himself. I don't like the hypothetical of, "What if Zeke protested?" because that is clearly not what happened in this situation, and even if it did, there is tangible evidence we can point to that demonstrate a pattern of respect and tact by the producers. There is a general sense of cynicism about it, sure, I feel it too. But we don't know exactly how they would've handled that hypothetical situation, and whether this would be another urban legend quietly swept under the rug. We can't know for sure, it's just a cynicism-vs-patterns guess.

There's no smoke, there isn't even a sniff of Zeke being upset with how production handled this whole thing. It doesn't pass the smell test. I think Zeke and production had many conversations about this aspect of his casting, and worked very closely together in understanding the potential ramifications and how they want to go about handling a worst case scenario. They spend such a ridiculous amount of time in casting this show and it is such a multi-million dollar operation... I don't believe they would be this stupid to not talk to Zeke about this stuff in advance.

The only thing to be mad at is an alternate dimension where production and Zeke don't talk to each other.

"RE: Well...maybe"
Posted by michel2 on 04-17-17 at 11:50 PM
Then let me throw this out: What if they cast Varner knowing that he is well aware of the LGBT community and was probably the most likely returning player to discover Zeke's secret?

If you look at it, they've almost always cast someone that could out their stars who wanted to stay anonymous: They put Danni, a sports commentator, on Hogeboom's season. Rocker was quickly ID'ed even if he wanted to keep it secret. Woo knew Cliff Robinson. It could all be accidental but...

I think it's unreasonable to think that they cast Zeke for two consecutive seasons (a nice way to make sure it doesn't come out outside of the show) without wanting it to come out, either by Zeke himself or by someone outing him.

"RE: Well...maybe"
Posted by Brownroach on 04-18-17 at 11:02 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-19-17 AT 00:04 AM (EST)

I'm not mad at anything. But I am not willing to think Survivor is not callous.

As far as I see, Survivor is always delighted to have these things occur. They can easily manipulate the situation into making the show look like it handled it oh-so "sensitively" from the get-go, but what, imho, they've done in this case is force (probably gently) contestant A, whom they had promised "could tell his story the way he wanted", into having to talk about this -- and Survivor's integrity, of course -- for some indefinite length of time in his life when maybe he wouldn't have wanted to, while also being able to paint contestant B, for the audience's benefit, as a vile disgusting creature who is not worthy to live, for having made an INEPT STRATEGIC MISTAKE ON A FREAKIN' GAME SHOW WHICH IS NOT REAL LIFE.

But, as Jeff Probst so unctuously put it, the issue "transcended tribal council." Survivor must have been salivating to appear so edgy.

And so now I am reading that Jeff Varner has been fired from his job for this? Yeeeesh.

"RE: Varner sucks."
Posted by michel2 on 04-15-17 at 12:39 PM
In Fiji, Earl formed an African-American and a shelter builders alliance in the first few days to fight against the Explorers and the Hispanic alliances. None of it was shown even if it impacted the whole season from the boot order to the swap selections to all the game decisions after the merger. They even made it look like Liliana was voted out for being a flirt when she was actually voted out for being the leader of the Hispanic and the Explorers alliances. Lisi, Boo, Stacy, Dreamz and Cassandra were all part of Earl's alliances, not Liliana's.

If they could hide that elephant, they could have hidden this. The difference between the two situations: An alliance based on racial lines didn't serve their purpose, this did.

"RE: Varner sucks."
Posted by kingfish on 04-15-17 at 02:19 PM
No offense, Michel, I respect your archival memory (I'm continually amazed and informed by it, in fact), but I never heard of any of that, so I have a hard time evaluating the validity of what might very well be no more substantial than internet gossip, or ex-survivor bloviating.

However, I do not doubt that Survivor/Producers editors will try and present story lines that they think helps the show, and disguise story lines that do not. I disagree that they could have done it successfully in this instance, though. Again, they would have been at a loss in explaining the non-vote. And they had to know that it would get out, perhaps if the examples you cite actually happened as stated and they weren't examples of survivors trying to make a case for something that wasn't there, they now know the futility of hiding that kind of thing.

(Sorry for doubting you, but it's difficult not to think that something else might have been going on in those cases. I mean, it could be, but it's also not unheard of for the race card to be used anywhere or anytime).

.

"RE: Varner sucks."
Posted by michel2 on 04-15-17 at 02:47 PM
It wasn't gossip, it came directly from Sylvia's exit interview when she told us about the Explorer and Shelterbuilder alliances. While Earl and others worked on the shelter, Liliana, Rocky and others went exploring the island. Realizing they were 10 and only 9 were left in camp, they decided there and then to align in case they'd go to TC all together. Unfortunately for them, Dreamz was part of their 10 so he told Earl all about it. Earl, with Yau Man, Boo, and others, then decided to form the shelterbuilders' alliance in response. Sylvia used that information when she divided the tribes, trying to split them equally so she'd have friends no matter where she wound up. The Explorers more or less dropped their alliance when they saw the whole group of 19 wasn't going to TC but Earl never forgot about it. So while he lost some during the pre-merge, the shelter builders were up 6-3 when the tribe all went to TC together and all six of them were in the Final 6.

After he won, Earl confirmed that when he saw the racial divisions he thought they'd do Cook Islands v2.0 so he assembled all the African Americans on that first night and told them that they'd have to stick together and not let anyone try to divide them. Then there was a secret scene where Liliana talked to Lisi, trying to get her on board with the other Hispanics but Lisi didn't go along.

As for this season, I know that once they decided to void the vote, they had to show the outing but they didn't have to void the vote in the first place. They certainly went through the process many times even when the vote was obvious. In fact this was more like the exception, not the rule. It put Zeke more or less in front of a "fait accompli". That's what I hated and that's why I say SeeBS is also guilty.

"Yeeesh"
Posted by Brownroach on 04-13-17 at 05:51 PM
Glad to have missed that episode.
"RE: Yeeesh"
Posted by kingfish on 04-14-17 at 11:21 AM
Hey BR, your voice has been sorely missed. You have been a mentor on these threads for so many of us. So, have you graduated to "Mentor Emeritus" now?
"RE: Yeeesh"
Posted by Brownroach on 04-14-17 at 12:33 PM
LAST EDITED ON 04-14-17 AT 12:34 PM (EST)

Hey Kingfish, thanks. I still pop in now and again, don't think I will ever be totally "emeritus". I got tired of them doing so many installments with returning players, so I stopped watching altogether for awhile. But I'll try to be around for the rest of this season (sometimes I'm not home in time to watch). Good to see you and all the old gang still here -- big wave to FloPo, Pepe, michel, CTgirl, Jims and everyone else 😎!

"RE: Yeeesh"
Posted by CTgirl on 04-14-17 at 05:50 PM
*waves back to BR* Always glad when you stop in!
"RE: Yeeesh"
Posted by Flowerpower1 on 04-19-17 at 02:38 PM
*Big WAVE* to BR as well! I love it when you pop in, it lets me know that even if you can't be here to chew the fat regularly that at least you are somewhere in the lurker universe! Love and MISS you, Brownroach! <3

"What is Varner holding?"
Posted by Sheldor on 04-15-17 at 07:12 AM
When Jeff Probst snuffed Jeff Varner's torch Varner was holding something square and flat but you couldn't get a good look on the broadcast.

After episode Press Image has a pretty good shot of it.

He saved the top of the "Survivor | Game Changers | Pizza" box!

Note: Some have said that hunger contributed to Varner's poor decision but according to his extra video they all got one pizza each. Varner chose the Meat Lover's Pizza and he saved some for the next day. And there were 3 extra pizzas to be divided up later.

Interview - I Now Know About SURVIVOR Starve